"President Obama took the stage at the DNC on Thursday night and instead of talking about change – he talked about choice."

Sure, Obama needed to change the subject..since he failed on "change you can believe in"...or was that "hope you can believe in"? Choice? what choices do we really have here? You can choose to opt out of the Obama Care but you will be fined by the government. You can choose either Obama or Romney and you will get the same rapacious policies that the 1% have gotten away with.

America has turned into a relatively lawless wild west of gunslingers and the few that are toting M16s against our pea shooters (you gave all your guns away, remember?)....are controlling us all.

The only real CHOICE is to vote for Jill Stein not tweedle dee or tweedle dummer! Jill Stein may be our only chance to keep this empire from bursting into violence...things could get really, really bad. And I am certainly not looking forward to it!

"But the President’s speech last night revealed that there are still enormous differences between himself and Mitt Romney – differences that will affect the lives of tens of millions of Americans."

Obama's speeches, when he campaigned before his first election, "revealed enormous differences" as well but his bark turned into a whimper after he was elected. He was voted in by the people because they were convinced that Obama was seriously going to change things. But Obama just kept giving in to the Republicans and I think that was meant to be all along. He sold us hope but gave us more of Bush.

Actions! Not more empty prattle!

Are you going to believe all of the sweet nothings that Obama tells you or are you going to believe what he actually did or didn't do during the last 4 years?

Are you going to be cowed into voting for Obama again because the alleged alternative, Romney, is just too horrible to imagine? Or are you going to take a chance that the majority of voters will, this time, break their chains and vote outside of the corrupt two party system. Think of how much elation will come over everyone if they finally were able to make a masterful statement that "we will not be held prisoners anymore by the corrupt two party system", and leave the jaws of the ruling elite and their political puppets wide open in shock and amazement that the people actually fought back. Vote for Jill Stein!

2012 is the last chance for republicans from here on out. The demographics have turned against them, and by 2016 no amount of money will get them elected. So its all in this time around - win at all costs. Expect more big money than even imagined in negative ads, false ads, lies and innuendo.

And if the republicans do win, expect a scorched earth administration stacking the supreme court, taking away personal liberties, eliminating taxes, outlawing abortion,abolishing regulation, etc. The only good news is that they will be out for good in 2016 and after 10-12 years progressives may be able to clean up the mess and return to normalcy.

If dems win, its more of the same nothing happening for four years. But when demographics catch up - it will be full Democratic from here on out.

Then with some luck and a leader with balls, money may even be eliminated from politics and we may return to democracy. I only hope it happens in my lifetime.

Everyone talks about Romney calling for letting Detroit go bankrupt, but I don’t think anyone has really pointed out just how selfish what he was suggesting actually was, and how much it reflects one more example of the thinking he lived by, and prospered by at Bain Capital.

If companies go bankrupt, it will nullify union contracts. It would eliminate legacy costs like pensions and health insurance benefits for tens of thousands of former employees. Those holding stock would want to unload it quickly before the price of it free fell.

The stock of those companies would bottom out and be worthless. BUT, people like Romney would swoop in and buy up that stock at bargain basement sale prices, knowing full well that the auto companies would be back in business sometime soon, hire people at much lower wages, with much less benefits, and with all the shed costs, the company would be seen as highly profitable for investors, and the stock would soar and those Romney types would makes millions. All at the expense of perhaps millions of middle class union workers.

Likewise, Romney suggested in a Las Vegas interview that we should let the foreclosure process play out. Sure, so that people like him, or at least those managing his blind trusts, could buy up foreclosed properties for pennies or dimes on the dollar, and make huge profits when the housing market returns someday.

So my point is, these examples people often cite about Romney speak a lot more about him, and people like him, when you play the scenarios out.

When you think about it, it really is like history is repeating itself - returning to what it's been for so much of human history. Kings and queens and lords, and a whole lot of peasants, with kings and queens having more than any human could ever possibly need in a lifetime, all at the expense of the peasants. Kind of like America's version of monarchies.

And the sad part is that they manage to get tens of millions of people to vote against their own interests by playing on the resentment that some of their hard earn money that is taken from them in taxes might go to some imaginary welfare queen or king out there who doesn't want to work and just wants to live off them. I've received dog whistle emails about just that from conservative friends since Obama got elected.

One of my favorite signs from Madison, WI was "A middle class worker voting for a Republican is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders". Can't sum it up any better than that.

It's like the movie the Matrix. That's exactly what the conservative, corporate owned media outlets have created in this country. When people blog against Obama, I keep thinking of what Barney Frank once said to a ranting woman. "What planet do you spend most of your time on?" But as a mental health care professional, I also find it rather scary. Maybe that's the job area that will grow and bring us out of this economic mess - the mental health care workers. Lord knows they're needed.

If in pre-Fortress Brest, pre-Pearl Harbor 1941 I were a free adult U.S. citizen and were suddenly by some fluke of physics teleported into the police-state the United States has now become, I would assume the Nazis had won.

No we don't have death camps -- not yet -- but the total loss of our constitutional rights and the 24/7 surveillance and the mostly unspoken but utterly rational horror of being tortured that now oppresses us all is exactly the sort of governance Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo were imposing on the entire world.

Nevertheless, as Mr. Hartmann says, though the difference between Obama and Romney is surely no difference in kind, it is unquestionably a difference in degree. Hence I ask myself the only real question in this election. Do I want full-fledged fascism now? Or do I want to (maybe) put off the inevitable for another four years?

I know that under Romney we'll have not just avowedly genocidal termination of Medicare, Medicaid (and most likely Social Security), but the imposition of JesuNazi theocracy, with faith-based organizations like the Ku Klux Klan -- known throughout the South as "the Saturday Night Men's Bible Study Class" -- functioning as the Christian equivalent of Islamic morality police. I believe -- I hope -- under Obama things won't be quite so bad.

The transformation of capitalism into fascism and finally into some form of Nazism is inevitable -- that is what is happening now, essentially as Marx and Engels predicted 164 years ago. But if the final transition can be delayed another four years, maybe -- because I'm 72 years old and not in the best of health -- I'll be dead by the time the for-profit prison corporations venture into the extermination business.

That's my one remaining hope, and that's why I'm voting for Obama -- to delay, as long as I can, what I now recognize as inevitable.

Even Michael Moore is sending around emails to people trying to muster up support for Obama. He basically hits us with the negatives first...like using drones, and not shutting down Gitmo Torture Camps..and a bunch of other things but then he says...but "you just can't expect Obama to fix everything in just four years...give the guy a chance..he is such a nice guy!". NO!
He had his chance, along with the Democrats in Congress. And he blew it right off the bat when he started acting just like a Bush clone. I believe that he never even intended to change things even when he was lying through his teeth when campaigning....like he is now!

Our only hope is to call them on their game and throw the bums out. Vote for Jill Stein and make it happen!

To Michael Moore: I hope Obama does lose...he deserves to lose. It will be horrible to have Romney as a President for sure. But whether or not Jill Stein wins or Romney does it will have shown the Democrats that the people are not going to be fooled by their rhetorical lies again. If we are lucky, Jill Stein will win and really teach those good old boys a lesson. Besides, it is high time we had a woman President....not cat lady Clinton but Jill Stein a physician...someone who knows what people are going through and really cares.

"..we may have to keep our feet on his neck to make sure .."
And that's what we said, and even Obama himself said in the beginning of his first term. But guess what...obviously no one did....and Obama kept giving in to the Republicans.

"He did get us out the Iraq and is ending the Afghanistan war. He got a somewhat weak Wall Streeet reform bill passed--that repubs are still trying to defeat and whittle away at. He got rid of Don't Ask don't tell and came out in favor of same-sex marriage."

And I'd say that most American don't really care much about some of those issues...like Don't Ask Don't tell or same-sex marriages. He has made the gays and lesbians very happy...fine...but the majority of Americans are not gay or lesbians. The majority of Americans wanted universal health care and jobs. Obama gave us neither. Yes, he was opposed all the way by the Republicans but Obama just seemed to accept it and shriveled up in the corner sucking on his thumb. He only "got out of Iraq" at the time that it had already been agreed that the US would leave by the Bush administration. Had Obama, during the first part of his term shut down Gitmo and pulled out of Iraq then we could give him some credit. But we're still in Afghanistan and often in Pakistan murdering civilians and children with Drones. Obama tightened up on secrecy and security so tight that now we are all being spied on...and it will get worse!

What could be more wasteful then voting for a party that has zero chance of winning? Voting your concience is your choice, but does little to solve the problems we face as a nation......

John Spargo, The Common Sense of Socialism, Chapter XI - What to do

"Of course, the first duty of every sincere believer in Socialism is to vote for it. No matter how hopeless the contest may seem, nor how far distant the electoral triumph, the first duty is to vote for Socialism. If you believe in Socialism, my friend, even though your vote should be the only Socialist vote in your city, you could not be true to yourself and to your faith and vote any other ticket. I know that it requires courage to do this sometimes. I know that there are many who will deride the action and say that you are “wasting your vote,” but no vote is ever wasted when it is cast for a principle, Jonathan. For, after all, what is a vote? Is it not an expression of the citizen’s conviction concerning the sort of government he desires? How, then can his vote be thrown away if it really expresses his conviction? He is entitled to a single voice, and provided that he avails himself of his right to declare through the ballot box his conviction, no matter whether he stands alone or with ten thousand, his vote is not thrown away."

I've been taught by the best, Thom Hartmann. So I will be voting for Stewart Alexander or Jill Stein.

This country is relentlessly being stripped of its earnings and savings. The industrial base and infrastructure that once created wealth disproportionally has been dismantled by those who don't wish to create items of value. They instead just hijack money and use it to accumulate more. Our country enjoyed a period of disproportionate success when we were a sufficient market for our own products and overseas industrial competitors were few or temporarily dismantled by war. That is clearly no longer the case. The latest countries to industrialize have all of the advantages if they can start up with the best tools and technology their predecessors achieved. They enjoy their own emerging new markets plus ours if we have not stepped up to a new level of product creation and manufacturing effectiveness. Politicians are not schooled or experienced in the creation of goods and services. The elite schools that today's money manipulators attend may not even emphasize that wealth (needed to sustain countries and communities) is only produced by farming, mining and manufacturing. Today's American realities are that climate change can disable the industrialized chemically based farming model we have concentrated in our heartlands. Our industrial base has been taken overseas by money manipulators seeking easy profits only for themselves with less responsibility. And our country is being used as a raw and used materials colony for off shored products and manufacturing. We may not like the physical, economic, and emotional scars that will result form hollowing out our land in addition to our base of manufacturing self sufficiency. Does it make sense that we allowed a hundred years of knowhow in product and process to be given to competitor nations who now enjoy the stripping of our nation's resources as the most innovative workers on the planet are idled in our country? If we realize that war in the 21st century is for economic dominance, is such exporting of our self sufficiency not definable as economic treason, reverse patriotism?

The alternate illusion behind the stranglehold being attempted by those who would bypass value creation here to just get money anywhere is orchestrated from a place called Wall Street - an illusionary market acting as an overlay to the actual market of real goods and services. Money manipulators can artificially drive pricing via perceived supply and demand. They can extract real money from every real revenue stream and every change in perceived value. Purchasing politicians, political parties and media mouths is just another cost of doing business on the way to accumulating immense sums. Money is way more portable than factories people, communities, or even nations, Schemes for manipulating money are instant, and with today's computer technology able to be executed with nanosecond responsiveness to opportunities. This money harvesting mechanism is not constrained by any boundary's, loyalties to community, nor ethical constraints. So if our perception is sucked into money as a substitute for superiority in creating real value, we hand imense leverage to a few, who have amply demonstrated they can't be trusted. The party of conservatism has clearly been hijacked, lock, stock and barrel. The party of the working class has been hobbled. If Americans don't challenge every non value based agenda, representative, diversion, distortion, from what we know works and benefits the common good, we will face continued unpleasant erosion.

Most American's feel the loss of self sufficiency we have suffered, but don't understand the why's. The two centers of thought leveraging, political and media are mainly either bought and paid for parts of the money driven stranglehold or are focused on amplifying, not challenging irresponsible and profit-for-a-few agenda driven words and actions. Worse, they are populated by people who never made anything, designed or built something tangible. Solutions to real challenges get very little play. That leaves what we "do want" without voice and without support. It would be fairly easy to diss-empower the few hundred predatory billionaires and the few thousand minions attempting to put a semi permanent stranglehold over hundreds of millions of decent people. Stop listening to what doesn't wash with what makes basic sense, doesn't add value, doesn't address serious needs, doesn't offer solutions your gut feels comfortable with. If a company spends more on lobbying , legal protection, than they do on R&D, product development, manufacturing improvements, education of it's workers right here in the USA, then buy from a company that does. Don't let a dime of your money pass into the hands of any entity that misuses it e.g."too big to fails". Take any member of governance to task for positions or actions that don't represent the common good. If they don't get constructive, remove them. Focus on issues and actions that improve quality of life, not made up emotionally disabling drivel.

We are at a crossroads with respect to reality verses illusion. Competitor nations are demonstrating a better grip on what counts than us. We have 70 million boomers coming out of companies and systems in this country that need overhauling, updating, and redirection toward the future. With no axe to grind working for money focused administrators, bureaucrats and caretakers, they are a knowledge and experience base that can provide what no politician or money changer can. Their motivation is the welfare of their children and grandchildren. We have the most innovative workforce on the planet. It's time to put our trust, emphasis, and support on who and what's worth trusting and supporting. Worthy politicians can facilitate but value adders must lead! By building what sustains, what doesn't will collapse of its own vacantness.

Rocky Anderson would be ok, in my book, if he wasn't backed by Americans Elect which is a secretive right-wing outfit funded by wealthy right wingers (as are the Democrats and the Republicans).

Anyone thinking about Rocky Anderson should check out the background of Americans Elect and that of it's founder, Peter Ackerman (the right hand man of Michael Milken). Check out his association with right-wing groups that pose as liberal groups that are believed to be working with the CIA as front groups that are working to overthrow foreign regimes by fomenting internal dissent. I'm sure they are working on Americans as well.

About the only way our votes would really matter, to effect a positive change from the destructive past, is to elect a more socialist government...a government that will investigate and prosecute the economic evil-doers and war criminals in this country. Obama, despite what the right-wingers will have you believe is far to the right of center...not anywhere close to socialist. We have to counteract the destruction of the past 30 years of right-wing, laissez faire pressures.

Tom Hayden is a Has-Been old school Democrate. His comment to Thom Hartmann after Thom asked him his opionon on PAID commenters that post far right leaning comments online. Tom Hayden's words where quote " GET A GRIP HERE THOM " unquote. It's old has-been's like Tom Hayden that can't think outside the box. TOM HAYDEN needs to go home and take a long nap in his rocking chair.

I can certainly recognize the sensitivities (I'm not so young any more either) but I cannot dismiss the idea that there are paid right-wing bloggers out there..some of whom even pretend to be liberal or progressive, perhaps, that try to steer liberals or progressives into accepting something that would be very detrimental to their health, economically, mentally, and physically. Tom Hayden's quip "We need to get a grip" indicates that maybe he either doesn't believe it or he doesn't understand it, or.......

I am glad that Thom asked the question. Tom Hayden seemed to be very uneasy with it...almost as if he was being asked if he believed that the earth has been repeatedly visited by extraterrestrial aliens.

There have been a number of articles from various sources that have shown us that is actually happening. It is certainly not a "too hard to believe" concept. It's like Blackwater for blogs!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&add...

Very well said! And I agree.

A GOP COUP D'ETAT?: Of course CEO's of publicly-traded company's HQ'd in the US have off-shored manufacturing and/or service sector jobs and/or apparently have something like 'veto power' over what rules & regulations they must abide by, and in turn make tens, hundreds, in some instances billions (in large part) through the adroit shuffling of various instruments of corporate finance (stocks, bonds & options) thus in effect looting their company's, starving the Treasury of revenues, and/or despoiling the environment; All done it seems, really in a panic(!) before some other (LBO raider, socialist, workers union,, radical, non-white, woman, gay, gen-x'er, etc.) in effect pushes them aside to do this [looting] themselves. So from the perspective of a CEO can taxes on income, capital gains and/or corporate profits ever be too low, or taken further; if you don't own real property and/or are a non-white/racial minority and/or woman, should they even be allowed to vote? The larger point being that Congressional Republican leaders in Washington can't and/or won't (in effect) turn on their corporate paymasters to instead rally around their candidate for president [Romney/Portman] by all together pledging to voters, in a unified forum (at their convention for example, or deploying Rove's ginormous campaign war chest to buy long-running ads) explaining and/or pledging how, if elected they'll {gulp} for the good of the country {gasp} attempt to rethink, reform and/or compromise on all the seemingly obvious (even to this simple-minded idiot) issues, resulting in re-engineering, rebuilding and/or restoring a stronger (AAA rated) America. Again, if the Republican's in effect revolt, there seems to be a window-of-opportuniity for them to take back the White House while being seen as saving the nation from (what sober-minded Sen. Coburn and/or wizened advisor like David Walker described as) inevitably problematic federal budget imbalances. Regarding the likelihood of a major overhaul lead by the current administration - this being their 'last election'; Sideways drift looks more likely as inevitably the focus and/or their priorities shift from responding to various constituencies to instead shaping exit strategies (i.e., legacy's, libraries, advisory boards, book deals, speaking engagements, consulting fee's, charities, children, grandchildren, retirement estates, presidential pardons, etc.) Of course 'a GOP coup d' etat?' is a clown question. My guess is that just as the stock market value of Apple now exceeds Exxon so too will the power of a more frictionless 'digital democracy' eventually displace less efficient (more resource intensive) 'analog' politics; allowing lawmakers to work from their home districts, and concievably resulting (by like 2112 and/or beyond) in the tranformation of much of official Washington D.C. into (in effect) a cermonial backdrop and/or Smithsonian Museum.

Cut to the Chase, My view is very much in line with most everyone on this blog. Thank you for introducing me to Dr. Jill Stein. Watched two video’s that present the Green Party. Straightaway, I like her. Would I vote for her? Perhaps, I will explain. Most of her issues are in line with mine. But, be sure those in power right now will not give it up to her easily.

As odd as it may seem those in power would likely arrest her and jail her similarly as they did Rod Blagojevich. In my perspective shooting your mouth off over the telephone or communicating on a blog like this is not grounds to jail someone. But it happens. Even if one talks about making money in a scandalous way it is perpetrated through the theater openly in our social arena constantly. However, from what I read, one needs to take the payoff, yet in Blago’s case no money changed hands.

Anyway, for those who think we are going into a fascist society, from my view, America is partially there, or largely there now. Corporate America has its thousands of little islands of fascist tyrannies. Those University persons with MBA’s are the lieutenants wearing varied corporate icons of that famous swastika, some masquerade like a Pepsi ying yang icon. For those of you who don’t know there are few history books left that fully describe the Bush family going back to grandpa Prescott Bush in complicity with the Nazi during world war two. With big corporate America financing the Nazi during their rise. Mr. Loren Bliss perhaps knows if this is true, for me, just beginning to understand this ugly history these past few years. I am enraged to find out that Bush and Cheney have been business partners with the Bin Laden family for decades, and the media lied to America about it. That’s the kicker they the media must lie notoriously, brag, faithless, slander, and obsessively lie. There is no going back.

Three main cable networks Fox News, CNN, and MSNBC, they are the vehicle of the big money rewriting history. Consider this: Fox News owned by Richard Murdock, which I consider a dangerous man for social development. With of course the Arabs with an interest in the Fox news medium kept just below the radar so American’s are blacked out that they are a huge influence. This Islamic investment American should know has the core believe that American’s are infidels and should be wiped off the earth. Imagine the influence in the programming that goes into the Fox News. In the middle CNN, Ted Turner, The Paladin of news telecasting, have network will broadcast for money Cable Turner. Then with the shining star MSNBC giving Americans everything they want to hear, yet are the flip misters that change faster than a Shakespeare play. All’s well that ends well. The biggest contradiction of any age is the double knowledge of all histories of our secret federal reserve delivered via Andrea Mitchell wife of former federal reserve board chairman Allen Greenspan. With that and all the while to understand the largest corporation in America General Electric the icon of Ronald Reagan where progress is their most important product is incredible in your face programming. Especially when Americans do keep buying insurance from the Geico lizard, we know they are of the moppet government society. (Sock government), chuckle.

Jill Stein would have to kick a lot ass to do what she wants. I won’t go into what I really think for now but the other green video about the railroads will not happen unless Dr. Stein has the courage as she said one must have. Dr. Stein would have to commandeer the railroad system to do what she wants to do for national security reasons. It is possible. But it will be “HELL ON WHEELS”. This is a huge industrial complex that is corrupt and has been a cash cow for congress and the senate for a hundred and fifty years, just as the Federal Reserve.