It’s Time To Tax The Rich
That’s the essence of what Vice President Joe Biden said following the Democrats’ big wins on Election night. Speaking to a pool of reporters on Wednesday, Biden said Democrats clearly have a “mandate” on tax reform. And this issue of taxes will have to be settled soon, as Congress returns for its lame duck session next week and the so-called fiscal cliff looms at the end of the year. Democratic Senator Patty Murray, who was the architect of the Democrats election strategy in the Senate, argued that Democrats now have a much stronger hand after the election as they head into negotiations with Republicans over what to do about the expiring Bush tax cuts and automatic spending cuts coming down the pike.
Murray told reports, “If we can’t get a good deal—a balanced deal that calls on the wealthy to pay their fair share—then I will absolutely continue this debate into 2013.” In other words, Democrats aren't caving this time. Unless the Republican Party is still living in an alternate reality – which is likely – they have to accept that they failed at making President Obama a one-term President by stifling the economy. They should take Tuesday’s election as a rejection of their obstructionist agenda and strike a deal with Democrats to raise taxes on the wealthy.
If they don’t – and if they continue their economy-crashing agenda – then they’re committing political suicide and, tragically, risk taking the country down with them.
Yearly budget deficit- 1 trilion dollars
Tax dollars from a "tax the rich" tax- 50-100 billion a year
Where is the rest going to come from? Sorry this "tax the rich" scheme the Dems have been pounding is symbolism over substance at its best.
We didn't get into that big debt in just a year. It took 10+ years to get there, it will take time. If people aren't working no revenue being paid in. If we have to spend more to get people back to work so be it, better then spending funds on misplaced war making!
What I like best about the election results:
KARL ROVE WASTED $300,000,000!!!!
Maybe next time he'll try buying votes directly.
I think the 2012 deficit is close to 1.5 trillion. The Fourtune 500 after tax earnings for 2011 was $850 billion so tax all the biggest evil corporations all their obsicene profits plus the rich and we will still be over a half a trillion short! OR double the tax on everyone who makes $100,000 and that will do it. The Pres. and every one in Congress knowes these numbers and now so do all of you. These numbers are so HUGE it will take a LOT OF PAIN to solve this problem. Which is not likely to get any one involved re-elected.
The R's are not going to change. It's always their way or the hi-way...even if there were only two in the whole Congress, they'd be this way. Boehner has already said where he stands. They almost seem like traitors.
All I can hope for is that Obama gets a spine and rams this down their throats. Bi-partisanship hasn't worked. Austerity doesn't work, it never has and Greece is proof if you don't want to go back and look at the Great Depression and se what happened when they tried it then with an awful economy.
There are plenty of "shovel ready" jobs out on the East Coast. Let's put people to work instead of taking their last dimes
You are so right, the math does not add up. But remember we just had an election and it appears that deficit spending is not an issue, we just have the federal reserve print that money and inflate our way out. The voters have spoken and like a bunch of spoiled brats at Christmas it will be forward right over the cliff, screw all those suckers that saved money all their life, that money is worthless. Face it, the country has become a bunch of dumb down fools that our parents generation would be ashamed of. Santa Clause is the new hero.
Hold on to your lug nuts, I think it is time for an overhaul. They asked for it and we are going to get it.
Do you think anyone maybe should have listened to Ron Paul. Hope This country can be saved from ourself before it is too late. Taxing the rich is not going to be the salvation.
The Republicans in the House of Representatives would prefer to see the United States go into another recession than to make it look like the President is correct. John Boehner may want to play nice with the President and the Democrats but Paul Ryan, Michelle Bachman and their tea party friends would prefer to wreck the country than do what is right. The last time Boehner tried to get Paul Ryan to play ball, Ryan stole the ball and left the room taking the tea party with him. Unless John Boehner has grown a pair during the election I expect that Paul Ryan will continue to jerk him around.
Republicans crashing the country:
"If they don’t – and if they continue their economy-crashing agenda – then they’re committing political suicide and, tragically, risk taking the country down with them."
Thom: Unfortunately, the Republicans signalled their intent to do exactly this when Obama was first elected. They said they would rather see the country crash than to see Obama succeed. I believe they are willing to make good on their threat. The Republicans no doubt view their actions as those of patriots. I see them as traitors, to their country and to the oath of office they took. They are putting their pledge to Grover Norquist ahead of the interests of the country as a whole.
If the Republicans wanted a rcession they would have voted to let the Bush tax cuts expire 2 years ago and Obama would now be history.
@Mauiman: Your assumption that the deficit has to be cleared from one year's tax reciepts is typical Fox News mis-information and rubbery figures.
Sorry, these Republican lies and mis-direction attempts just don't wash anymore. Ask Rush for some new talk points.
You're darn tootin. Since the billionaires spent that much money to try to flip the election, they sure as H-E double hockey sticks have enough money to pay their fair share of taxes and not pretend that Entitlements can pick up the slack.
It seems like so little to ask those who have much to at least pay their FAIR share.
It's the only way we'll get people back to work and improve the economy. The people with ALL the money need to put it back into circulation and bring it back into the country they earned it in. Business must be taxed generously, but they must receive breaks for training workers, for hiring workers, and for improving infrastructure. Business uses the roads and bridges and railways and waterways and docks--the wealthy need to contribute like the rest of us to their maintenance and creation.
When their house is on fire, do they not call the fire department? If they have a heart attack, do they not call the EMTs? If their home is broken into, do they not call the police? These are all services paid for by our taxes. We should ALL contribute at the same level/rate. These services are not free, and those with more than the rest of us shouldn't get off the hook.
We didn't vote the million/billionaire into office; this is our Occupy Wall Street moment; this is why we are not in the streets protesting and tarring and feathering the wealthy. We are sick of the rich. We spoke with our vote--that is the mandate.
Listen or continue at your peril, because people will tire of putting their children to bed hungry--this is the seed of the terrorist.
the anti tax meme...pretty sad, if a cat like myself knowing the state of the country and having been victim of flat wage for 15 years waiting for some of that there trickling is willing to kick in an extra 1-2%, that the bosses i am but a minioin to, you know the ones that live in $1,000,ooo homes and drive benzes and vaction at thier cottages on the sound, sailing those lovely 40 footers that they make me go down and polish the teak on, yeah that ilk? yup those folks, why they can't. actually it was a great thread argument all day over on one of the news web sights...
One positive outcome of raising tax rates on upper brackets is that it discourages sucking obscene amounts of money out of corporations by executives in the form of salary and bonuses and encourages rolling that money back into the business - thus more jobs - thus more taxes.
There are numerous stable economy-stimulating tax policy solutions which could be enacted if the absurd concept of supply side economics was abandoned.
However, as long as the congress is composed of morons there will be a long trail of moronic solutions, each more destructive than the last.
Would someone please tell me what "my fair share" of total taxes on my income is?
50% total taxes on my income? I will take this rate right now- nothing would make me happier than if I could keep 50 cents on every dollar I earn.
60% total taxes on my income?
70% total taxes on my income?
80% total taxes on my income?
90% total taxes on my income?
100% total taxes on my income?
Over 100%?? How much of my income do the consumers from the government nipple want from the legitimate higher income producers that are paying for their "Free" Obama phones, contraception, housing, foodstamps, etc? And if the high income producers (Bernie Madoff etc) are making thier money illegally- we have 100's of laws on the books to take care of that injustice.
And if you want to trot out the 90% +/- maximum marginal income tax rates from the 1950s- will you also roll back every other stinking federal, state, and local tax and tax breaks back to the same 1950 levels???
So would one of you smart progressives explain to me what my "fair share" really is?
I can't wait for your logical and cogent replies.......and then also explain to me why I should continue to bust my butt working 60 to 70 hours a week to end up paying 60% or more of my total income to some Obama phone user….
It will be very interesting to see the out come of these two money makers.
Which one will be satisfied first : "Cliff or Sandy" ? I,m betting on Sandy,
because the Wall Street bankers and insurance companies will be connected with
Sandy's government billing issues first,and with Federal Reserve allocating 40 billion
a month: mortgage backed securities;well,Cliff will just have to wait. Beside,ladies
are first anyway !
Good points, but with the progressives it is all emotion -- no logic involved. As you can tell by the posts on this subject it is the hate tax on those who have more. It is that guy down the street who drives the nice car and makes the big bucks - he is the one who makes me work this crap job and kick the dog every night.
Yeah, sure, like we're going to believe you are taxed at a 50% rate. Aren't you just a little jealous that Romney only pays about 15%? And you think that is all right? That's fair? If you pay any where near 50% taxes then you are either a saint or you have never heard of tax shelters and other creative tax schemes that most wealthy people all take advantage of. I'd like to see all high income earners pay the kind of tax rates they had to pay in Eisenhower's day. They would all still have so much money left over they wouldn't know what to do with it all...except gamble it away on the stock market...and if they lose..they get bailed out anyway. That's what our country has become...a kind of socialism for the very wealthy...corporate welfare which amounts to way more than any so-called bunch of welfare queens. It's time to roll back the clock and tax the heck out of the rich. I mean it's not like they are trying to create more jobs...except in China. Turn the damn Pentagon into a shopping mall and stop milking the middle class with all those costly, illegal, and quite unnecessary foreign wars. It's blood money. War Crimes!
All of the blustery talk by some Obama supporters indicating they believe Obama will be more aggressive this time around and negotiate from a stronger position is much ado about nothing...what will amount to yet another give away to the rich. Any "compromises" will put a hurt on the social programs...Social Security, Medicare, etc. and the Pentagon's spending will continue to pillage the middle class taxpayers and make those who have spent their working lives paying into the system and deserve every bit of SS and MC they get, while the rich tax evaders will continue to blame social programs while avoiding paying their fair share of taxes.
Compromise?! We don't need no stinking compromises! The Republicans haven't compromised! Instead of whining that we all just should get along...Democrats, in any moment of advantage, should use it to do what the Republicans have done to us all along. But they won't because they are not much better than the Republicans. They are all in it together. None of them are....middle class or poor. The grand illusion will continue to fool a lot of people until they are too disillusioned, hungry, sick, and weak to really fight back. And when they see those drones flying over head they will wimp out...or will they? We'll see.
Tsars, Kings and other heads of state who continued to ignore what their really ticked off peasants could do may have wished in those last moments.."my kingdom for a horse". Mubarak was put in a little cage and urinated on. Ghadafi was beaten to a bloody pulp. al-Assad is frightened for his life. And somebody here in the US must be just a little nervous if they have to leak that various government departments are buying up millions of rounds of ammunition, spying on us, and starting to fly drones around our neighborhoods.
The overwhelming government forces in other countries were not enough to hold back the raging citizens. If the obstinate and obstreperous wealthy continue in the same path they did in the last 4 years...we may very well see some very violent actions in our streets and in places of business. Prices will shoot up making the necessities of life..food..etc. and it will force the people to take action. It won't be pretty!
Oh, I forgot, if you don't believe that then you are a racist.
Ron Paul comments on the fiscal cliff.
But, you see, all those people who make the big bucks actually believe they deserve all that they make. They continue to squeeze the little guy..their employees...or they even ship their jobs overseas. They started this economic war...this class war... many years ago...and it may very well end up as has happened so many times before in the history of the world...when the exploited and cheated masses rise up and kick those arrogant butts into the sewers where they belong. Tsars and their families have been murdered..French Kings and other aristrocrats lost their heads because they all thought they were too good to pay their fair share of the taxes. China's revolution made many wealthy people pay dearly for their greed. And now the heads of countries are going down around the world. Revolutions are breaking out all over.
Many rich people are just luckier or more criminally clever than most other people who try to stay within the law and not cheat others. Some wealthy people may have had "talents" and "worked" hard but none of the really very wealthy families got that way honestly or fairly. And many many working people work just as hard as, or even harder than, many wealthy people..they are just more honest. And that has never been truer than today.
The US is a vast criminal empire where the crooks control the news...the propaganda...the money...the political process, and the politicians...everything. They even thumb their noses at law enforcement. Heck, our Attorney General, Eric Holder, won't even go after the really big, obvious criminals...they have to turn themselves in like Bernie Madoff did. The IRS won't go after the really big tax evaders...they go after the easy prey..they millions of less sophisticated tax payers who may have made tiny mistakes.
Let's see, the democrat's plan, the one that is to end temporary extensions on tax cuts that were temporary to begin with, and only on the very wealthy, is according to all the mass media reports I hear, simply a "tax increase." which makes it sound like a tax increase for everyone.
It only took the first 28 words of my initial statement to state a truth you will never hear the corp media mention to those who need to hear it most, future voters with little interest, most of the time anyway, in political discussion, which is the vast majority of the American people. An under informed electorate is why the house is still controlled by those who would do us all great economic harm in exchange for their own selfish financial gain. Maybe social media is the best answer for a way to well inform the general public, because it sure as hell appears the corp media is the best way to well misinform!
This time we can't assume President Obama can do it all by himself -- OR that the two parties will do it for us. WE THE PEOPLE must find ways to keep the pressure intensly on them. Where necessary WE may have to do it ourselves through some sort of referrendum process. We have organizations, we need to support them.
Meanwhile we as individuals should find our nearest T-Bagger "and 'splane it to 'em in no uncertain terms." Quit beating up ourselves, start comming down hard on the stonewallers and foot-draggers, the liars and self-serving scoundrels.
Let's finish them off- burn 'em to the ground !!!
Still waiting for a reply to my question. Would someone please tell me what percentage of TOTAL taxes on my income is my "Fair Share"? I am waiting to be convinced- seriously I am open to being convinced if someone can tell me why Uncle Joe is correct with some facts. And FYI - who the heck is Joe Biden to talk about contributing a "Fair Share"?
What did he donate to church and charity last year- $300. 00 or so???? Uncle Joe sure is a magnificient example of contibuting his "Fair Share"!!!!!!!! Typical progressive liberal - rant and rave about what is "fair" and get someone else to pay.
Someone please tell me why I should pay more than 50% of my income in TOTAL taxes is fair - I will sing your praises in this forum.
ScottfromOz, I did not mean to imply that it had to be closed in one year, but it certainly needs to be significantly narrowed. This one trillion a year stuff has got to stop, and "tax the rich" is just a very small step in the right direction at best.
Suggest a campaign of emails to John Boehner.
The way I see this issue is very simple. It is not a tax increase to the 1%, it is just go back to how it was prior to Bush's Era. If they have billions to "buy" their Republican buddies they should have money to pay their share. They are not "job creators" they are "abusers of the system." If they don't like it, let them go, we do not need these toxic corporations. In my book, Rove and his gangsters are not citizens they are inhabitants, there is a big difference. As to Riley's comment about Mr. Obama giving the 99% "stuff" the only stuff takers is pundits like him and Rove's gangsters who are giving money and then "collect and profit" from recipients. Tampa, FL
Tax the hell out of the rich and slice the military budget in half, cancel the debt to the Federal Reserve as Ron Paul tried to do with a bill and we've suddenly come a long way toward solvency.
I have no idea what your income might be, but I'm pretty sure no one believes you should pay more than 50% unless it's in the UNEARNED muti millions as in Uncle Mitt's type of catagory.
Say I happen to work for a company which is one of Uncle Mitt's Bain acquisitions and end up making $30,000, an amount requiring me most likely to be a head manager. I end up with $20,000 after all forms of taxes, property, gas pump, and all other types of sales tax, income, what you might call entitlements, but programs we still pay for, you name it. So I ended up paying a 33% tax rate.
Now at the same time Uncle Mitt made 30 million without lifting a finger thanks in part becasuse I showed up to work for his Bain acquisition and thus made it possible for him to make his money without working. He ends up paying anywhere from 0% to 13.9% and still has at least 25 million left to pay his landscapers, buy his food, gas, car elevator, you name it. Maybe you could explain to me what is moral about this current tax set up?
From these posts its apparent that most people believe we are helpless slaves to this corrupt ponzi scheme money from nothing, money as debt system. BTW, Global, what exactly is this job you work so hard at? There are a lot of wealthy people talking about how hard they work, but lo and behold, come to find out they work at moving money around. That's not really work, say like the people who actually work with their hands and minds to produce tangible goods and services that other people use and these people reciprocate same. It's the actualy workers who are getting screwed by this top down, trickle on economics and the people like Romney and Rove and the American Enterprise Institute, and The US Chamber of Commerce types who actually do NO WORK at all, they manipulate other people into supplying the goods and services they crave and hoard.
Although it is difficult not to agree with Vice President Joe Biden and Patty Murrey, it looks like the President has different ideas. He is replacing some of his cabinet. The first to go will be Timothy Geithner. Barack Obama's #1 choice to fill the seat of Treasury Secretary is Erskine Bowles. This is the guy who worships Paul Ryan and the Ryan budget, as the following clip would suggest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dbzpuqWo6yU
If this is also the way our president thinks, then the Ryan Budget is not far behind.
As individuals and as a society, we are using the wrong measurement to gauge our success and for our very motivation to succeed. Wealth, in the form of money and possessions, is what stimulates our desire to get up, go to work and what we do all day. Our schools give us the tools and teach us how to measure. From Kindergarten to Harvard School of Business, we are taught to respect those who wallow in abundance and power while we ignore and cast aside those who have less. We are taught how to take from others, to maximize our profits, then hoard and even worship the material riches we have accumulated. This process is self-destructive and will ultimately lead to the death of the societies and the environments in which we live.
There is a better more constructive way to live our lives. We would be far better off if we were taught to care for ourselves by taking care of others. The measure of our success would be the overall well-being of every member of our communities and the health of our environments, not our vast private collections of possessions. These notions have been discussed widely from the beginning of time in theological texts and refined by luminaries such as Adam Smith, Karl Marx, Wolfgang Goethe and John Lennon, et al, to the point of being cliché. Yet, we persist, as a society, to exploit the weakest among us for personal “gain.” How do we break from our current model of success?
I highly doubt that anyone who is really making so much money that he/she has to worry about having their taxes increased (because they are making so much money) would take the time, or interest, in participating in communicating in a blog like this. Most likely, they are rich-man/woman wannabes, dreamers and schemers, pretenders, who are convinced that they, themselves, will one day be at the top of the economic pyramid. Or they are paid lackey sock puppets sent by their wealthy employers to argue in their defense. Truly wealthy people would not bother, themselves, to mingle with the riff raff. But, there are a lot of wishful true believers that hope to scam enough people one day to amass their own personal wealth.
If a person is lucky enough to win big at the casinos or on the State Lottery, he/she will pay big taxes. Well, why not? What the heck did he/she do that should honor them with some special status of exclusion to what everyone else has to pay in taxes? What special skills or hard work or education did it take to plunk down their bets or buy that $1.00 lottery ticket? Many wealthy people are just plain lucky and/or very skilled at deception and manipulating other people into giving them their money. Many have inherited their fortunes from the illicit gains amassed by their families which is used as an unfair leverage in continuing to amass even more money. Many are actually criminals who have gamed the system and stolen other people's money..from retirement accounts...real estate scams..manipulation of the stock markets...and on and on. And many of these scum bags believe that they actually earned their money through hard work? They are the real parasites feeding on their hosts. And that will eventually lead to the deaths of their hosts and then to themselves because they will no long have hosts to feed upon.
But there may be a day when the hosts get so tired of this game...and in a fit of rage or just plain trying to survive...the hosts might just stomp on those parasites at the top of the economic pyramid. These parasite know that they can keep feeding as long as they control the propaganda and keep their hosts dumbed down, too scared to fight back, or hold those carrots in front of their faces. The rest of the world, breaking out in their own revolutions, are setting an example of what may happen here very soon.
Vaporization of assets...trillions in stock certificates and other paper securities...millions of American's 401k's, pensions, and stock accounts destroyed by Sandy? With a warning a week ahead of time...no one thought that all these 13.1 million pieces of paper would be destroyed by a potential flooding from hurricane Sandy? The lower floor vaults containing these very vulnerable to destruction pieces of paper were not water tight. Why not? They had plenty of time to move these securities to a high level why did they not move them? Why was all of the news attention focused on the watertight vaults that contained gold which would not be threatened with destruction even if they were exposed to flooding? Max Keiser has a lot to say about all of this.
No one created Hurricane Sandy, except perhaps through global warming, but I think something very shady could have taken place...just like during 911 (when billions of illegal bonds that were to come due on 912) were destroyed.
to your Question? a fair share should be every dollar taxed gets taxed the same way. example: one earner makes $325k after all deductions, credits and loophole manipulation taxable income = $100k of which said taxpayer pays a whopping $2,800. Meanwhile? a couple that makes $130k and after all deductions and credits has taxable income of $84k yet paid $13,000 in taxes. to me its not so much about raising or lowering its about taxing it all equally!
Jay Cay Johnstone described the willfully misleading language of business when it says things like, "From now on our employees will have to pay more of their own pension." or, "... more of their own health insurance." as though those payments were, until then, charitable generosities on the part of those employers when in fact they were part of the agreed upon compensation of those workers. It's like they're saying, "From now on our employees are going to have to pay more of their own salaries or wages."
Similarly, taxes on business must be seen as the just compensation business must pay to the people who work for them and not a charitability, however mandatory, on their part. We earned all the government's social programs with our hard work making Mitt Romneys rich.
Just as Walmart gave its employees in California instruction on how to get on food stamps, most welfare recipients are the "working poor" - which is itself an abomination of any justice - or, grossly undercompensated workers. So, what business doesn't pay in wages it pays in taxes. If it refuses to do either - as it is doing now - you have, resulting, what is happening now, the destruction of the middle class and the pauperization of the working people. .
Scubaohio: My reply is this: fair share. What did you not understand about that? You went off on some overblown crybaby school-yard bully rant.
Working class people pay around 34%, at least we do, the wealthy should pay 34% also. Everyone should pay the same rate. A simple concept that seems to have gone completely over your head.
People like you do not seem to realize that the wealthy cannot continue to suck this country dry without nasty repercussions.
The wealthy are like 100 vampires desending on the last 10 humans on the planet. On whom will they dine tomorrow?
We all live in this country and benefit from its system, we should ALL PAY/CONTRIBUTE the same.
I disagree...I believe the wealthy should pay more...much more because they have the most to lose in the event our country is invaded and occupied...just for starters. Those who have very little to lose would not lose very much compared to the wealthy. What would it really matter to those at the bottom who rules...China, Russia, Aliens? Those A$$ hole, arrogant, scumbag, ruling elite Americans are not any more worthy of being our rulers than anyone else. Those with a lot to lose would lose a lot and should be taxed the most.!
As our Pentagon takes up a very large slice of the taxation pie...ostensibly to protect us...but in reality, they are more offensive rather than defensive and mostly make the wealthy wealthier. It is the wealthiest people in America who should have the highest taxes. But, of course, the wealthiest pay the least as a percentage of their incomes while they use their patriotic clap trap propaganda to get the less fortunate people to sacrifice their sons and daughters to murder and be murdered on behalf of making the wealthy wealthier.
In addition, the wealthy have been getting away with not paying their fair share of taxes, squeezing the workers out of sufficient wages and benefits, and shipping our jobs overseas for 30 plus years now. They are not job creators..they are job destroyers. We need to insist...force these maggots to pay their fair share and force them to keep our jobs here in America...how about making them pay 80-90 percent in taxes? That, or we send these criminals to prison where they all belong..they are traitors who are selling out Americans...then invade all those tax havens and confiscate all their money and their stateside property.
Yep, go ahead, just keep poking that big stick in face of the so called wealthy. The collapse will come -- who is John Galt.
Watch California over the next couple of years as they drive out the tax payers. They can't print money so look for a begging hand out to the federal government. California will be bankrupt.
What would a sales tax solve? Luxury 15% needs 2%
The whole country is already bankrupt because of the criminal deeds of arrogant greedsters at the top of the economic dung heap...the ones who have been shipping our jobs overseas...the ones who turned our economy from a manufacturing one to a Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate (FIRE) one...to a reckless gambling with the savings of other people's money one. There's no law and order anymore...the gangsters are running the country. And those who praise themselves for deserving the lion's share of the country's resources (because they are smarter and harder working than everyone else?...total bulls..t!!!) are morally bankrupt and are deceiving only themselves.
I bet Mubarak, Ghadafi, and al-Assad all thought they were most deserving of their lofty status as well. Mubarak wound up in a small cage where he was urinated on, Ghadafi was beaten to a bloody pulp, and al-Assad is very worried that he may suffer the same kind of fate. Arrogant pigs in the US may also, one day, wish they had been a little less piggish.
your wounds wont heal overnite. neither will the country's we had patience while we all paid a more severe tax than the elite. it took time to get into this mess and will be an appropriate recovery period before were out of it. hey does it have to be explained in easier terms to you ? the guys at the front of the traffic are going through the toll booths and using nickles in the quarter basket.!
you are absolutely right and I really dont believe theyre smart enough to go the route of passing anything that will benefit the middle class or make obama look good even though it is a new term., these people are living in another world and different society than most and still cant grasp reality.!