The Unemployed Are Screwed

The first casualties of going over the so-called “fiscal cliff” will be more than two million unemployed Americans who depend on extended emergency unemployment benefits. While most of the negative effects of going off the cliff, like the tax hikes and spending cuts, won’t be felt until further out into the future, the expiration of unemployment benefits will be an immediate shock to millions of Americans and the economy. And they are set to expire on Saturday, meaning Republicans in the House will already miss the deadline to extend them, since Speaker of the House Jon Boehner is waiting until Sunday to reconvene the House.

The unemployed in America have no lobbyists like the defense contractors, and have no interest groups like the billionaire banksters – so it’s no wonder why they will be the first casualties in the fiscal cliff showdown. The tragic irony here is these unemployed Americans, when they are receiving unemployment benefits and spending money in our economy, are the real job creators – and not rich guys like Mitt Romney who stash their money in offshore bank accounts and refuse to reinvest in the American economy.

Comments

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 49 weeks ago
#1

Unemployment Insurance benefits are only extended "again and again" in periods of deep recession. These are periods of low employment and thus low demand for goods and services. There is not, in such periods, a great availability of jobs or very many if ANY jobs going unfilled. Quite the contrary. There are literaly tens of applicants - sometimes hundreds - for each job. Thus with regard to UI or welfare, the economy - or, for that matter, society in general - doesn't suffer from a shortage of willing, able workers because of either of those programs. The expenditure for them is pretty miniscule and well spent. They are a stimulus to the economy, creating demand - and therefore, jobs. Programs like Food Stamps are, in that way, a boon to the agricultural sector.

As to whether welfare causes dependancy, statistics of welfare recipients before 1996, when the "reform" legislation was passed and a lifetime limit of 5 years was imposed, show that they were overwhelmingly of the working poor who worked full time supplementing their incomes with food stamps, some cash or vouchers and typically would go, alternately, on and off the program rolls with changes in the business cycle, their ability to get better jobs and other aspects of their personal fortunes.

Unemployment insurance has many features built in that are meant to prevent dependancy. A beneficiary must demonstrate they are looking for a job and may not refuse an offer of a job without forfeiting the UI benefits; other than periods of deep recession, the maximum time limit for receiving benefits is 6 months; also, there is a limit to the amount of the weekly benefit with a maximum of about $400, but in any case, the amount is significantly less than the amount someone would earn working. So, then, a beneficiary of UI must be looking for a job, receives an amount much less than if they were working, and, whatever the case may be, couldn't possibly be "dependant" on UI for more than 6 months.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 49 weeks ago
#2

US Government using the Internet to create the perception of false majorities to use peer pressure to undermine the very cornerstones of democracy? The evidence continues to mount that they not only are, but doing so both domestically and internationally.

This is a short video (about 5 minutes) of a TV news broadcast from Channel 4 in New Orleans showing how IP addresses traced back to the Army Corp of Engineers that originated many comments on blogs and other social commentary sites who did not fess up to the fact that they were actually working for the Army Corp of Engineers when they participated in defending the government, and attacking and belittling citizens expressing their views. And if they were doing it then...they certainly are now everywhere else.

http://www.youtube.com/user/LeveesOrg?v=jDwuMBOPrrQ&lr=1

http://levees.org/personal-attacks-and-lies-posted-to-internet-by-army-c...

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 49 weeks ago
#3

Kend: Yes, I see that you two are two peas in a pod. So Happy together. dah, dah, dah, dah.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 49 weeks ago
#4

Ken Ware- You need to lighten up, man. Otherwise if you're gonna dish it out, you'd best be ready to take it. Your scathing response to comments made by Palindromedary, much earlier in this thread, seem to have come from nowhere and are entirely without provocation. I'm completely baffled, by the tone as well as the content of your missive.

I understand that you have strong opinions and that you reserve the right to express them as you see fit. But why must you assassinate the character of anyone whose commentary you happen to disagree with?! Having read PD's response to that article ("Shooters" by Steven Taylor), I won't claim to agree with every point made by him; however I observe nothing in PD's comments that could be legitimately tagged as "thoughtless" or "offensive".

Seems to me that PD has done enough reading on the subject to have earned the right to an opinion, whether you or anyone agrees with it or not. Since sharing his response to that first article, PD has given several other examples of articles supporting his premise that psychotropic drugs have been a major factor in mass shootings.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 49 weeks ago
#5

(Reply to #14, con't) Your own comments are what strike me as irrational, sir. For example, accusing PD of "ranting" when all he has done is expres his opinion. What, specifically, has PD said that would indicate this lack of sensitivity you claim his comments have shown, towards depressed individuals on psychotropic medications? Not to mention the tone of your diatribe, much closer to a "rant" than anything I've read of PD's!

As to "comparing" that general population to psychotic killers, as if this were presented by PD as a matter of "guilt by association"... where is the evidence of that?! Having actually seen photos of various mass shooters, he's observed a pattern that seems worth mentioning, from his point of view (and mine). So what's the big deal?

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 49 weeks ago
#6

(Reply to #14, con't) PD's suggestion that financial ruin and its consequences could be a cause of depression in many of its sufferers is not only legitimate; it shows empathy and compassion. His overall take on the issue of psychotropic meds and their dangers is well supported by several articles he has shared; not just one. Certainly seems enough to make a convincing argument that these drugs are bad news when prescribed to certain people. Since most of these killers have been young white males, this indicates certain sociocultural factors involved, along with whatever vulnerabilities they may have to these drugs that are medically based.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 49 weeks ago
#7

Beyond your unwarranted hostility towards PD, I've spotted numerous weak spots in your argument. For starters, your apparent assumption that these drugs are "highly tested". Are you aware that the FDA gets much (if not all) of its funding from Big Pharma; from the very entity it's supposed to be regulating in our behalf?! This explains why, over the past thirty-plus years, the FDA has grown impotent enough to have become virtually worthless, at least where the general wellbeing of the public is concerned. One need only examine those long lists in Public Citizen's newsletter to get the picture. What you'll see is an endless stream of toxic quack remedies that maim and kill, inadequately scrutinized before passing through the loose weave of FDA constraints into public hands. Any regulatory agency or entity funded by the people they're supposed to be regulating might as well not even exist, for it has become worthless... All pretense, no substance! "Highly tested", my A$$.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 49 weeks ago
#8

Is it not a fact that the CIA and U.S. government smuggled heroin & cocaine into this country? And if it is indeed a fact, then wouldn't it be reasonable to doubt our government's credibility in matters pertaining to drugs in general? That's the point PD seems to have made. When you accuse him of "comparing" psychotropic drugs to heroin, you not only miss the point; you're putting words in his mouth. And nowhere in PD's entry have I seen it suggested that every person on antidepressants is automatically a menace to society.

Any government brazenly hypocritical enough to smuggle heroin & coke into its own country, while draconian enough to arrest & jail people on a daily basis for using those very things, is NOT credible. What could better highlight the politics of drugs in "My Country 'Tis Of Thee"? With all your distrust-in-government sentiment, Mr. Ware, I would think this a no-brainer for you.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 49 weeks ago
#9

(Reply to #14, con't) I also must clarify that, contrary to how you've described it, there is nothing "simple" about depression. Since finally recognized as an illness, depression has been found to consist of seven distinctly different types, identified by the Amen Clinics who specialize in treating this illness. These various types of depression involve different areas of the brain.

Like any debater worth his salt, PD cites facts to support his premise. And facts are facts; they are what they are regardless of whatever emotional impact they could have on anyone. No reason to shoot the messenger. - Aliceinwonderland

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 49 weeks ago
#10

Aliceinwonderland - My first response to you is that I can understand your feminine response and your attempt to protect your friend or online friend. I personally do not agree with you concerning the testing methods used by the Big Pharma Corporations. They go through multiple years of testing and a staggering amount of money is spent to finally be able to market their product. My suggestion to you is do not use any of these highly suspicious drugs that the F.D.A. blindly gives an ok to. The number of drugs that benefit mankind compared to those who have shown to cause health problems is astronomical in comparison to those who do create health problems. Like you kindred spirit on line you fail to understand the enormous benefit these Pharma companies and the medications they produce have had on mankind as a whole. From eradicating Polio to life saving blood pressure medications, these drugs are lifesaving. It is always easier to find fault with one or two drugs that may make the headlines than it is to appreciate the benefit as a whole that these drugs do for us. As far as the articles you have mentioned, I have read the same articles when they are noted and I do not see how they could be interpreted in the manner Palindromedary expresses in his comments. Like I have stated it is easy to quote on an article and find an extensive amounts of negativity without researching further and mentioning the positive points of medications or governmental conspiracies to destroy our freedom. I personally find the gentleman a paranoid with a desire to be the one who spreads the gospel about everything he says. As far as my attitude towards his ranting’s, I have observed you taking the same stance on subjects you comment on that is not in agreement with yours. I apologize if it hurts your sensitivity the way I reply with a no holds barred in my comments. Once a warrior always a warrior regardless of age or subject, a masculine response. If you find my comments offensive you have the right to notify the webmaster and state your views on my responses online and ask me to be removed from commenting. But I refuse to change the way I respond to comments made by anybody, especially those made by your kindred online Palindromedary. He has a different style when responding to something I have commented on and that is to express an attitude of dismissiveness or objective piety while speaking down to someone. Political correctness is not something I agree with or utilize when responding to anyone. Ask kend, he will attest to this fact. Also I do not find it necessary to hide my identity or taper down my responses. I am very passionate in my responses when I believe someone is slandering others for their own personal glorification. That includes anyone who feels compelled to state their opinion on this blog or any other. l do not take my orders from you or any other entity and if that is a problem so be it. As I have stated I do take the time to read any article that is sited as a truth for the basis of any comments. And I agree with you Palindromedary, for the lack of his real name, is well read. But that in no way makes his comments or his reference to specific articles a basis for the truth. They are simply his interpretation and I find many of his interpretations to be false and somewhat paranoid. Just like I find Kend's comments to be somewhat irrelevant since he is not an American. And I find your point of view to be to the left and feminine. I agree my response on specific comments to be harsh at times, but at times harshness is warranted to express the true nature of my retorts. I do not at any time expect the response to my comments to being any less to the point or harsh than mine. I give it out, but unlike others I can take it as well. I hope my response answers any of your comments or questions. If you want political correctness in comments watch CSPAN or CNN. Like I have stated if you find my comments to be too "much" for your liking you have the option of making a complaint to the webmaster that handles Hartmann's Blog. Thank you for your sensitive reply on my comments. Also, you have the right to state that some of my comments do not seem rational, that is what free speech is all about. I do not get offended easily by remarks made about my comments and I do not worry about in what light others see or interpret my comments. If I did I certainly would not state my real name and physical location. I do not live in a world where fear determines my points of view.

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 49 weeks ago
#11

Aliceinwonderland - My statement concerning depression as simple depression was made in a sarcastic response to Palindromedary's comments about people not being allowed to own weapons. I guess I need to brush up on how to be sarcastic. And as I stated I find those who consume alcohol and own weapons to be more of a threat. If you would have read my whole statement you would have seen how I was in fact knowledgeable about Depression because I have several friends that suffer from this disease and one in particular is a teacher and a pillar of his community. But I guess the temptation to set me straight was just too great to resist. Have a nice New Year.

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 49 weeks ago
#12

Kend - I am surprised as well! As usual Palindromedary uses a reply of dismissiveness to respond to something he cannot use an intellectual response too.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 49 weeks ago
#13

I just watched the End of Year Big Picture Rumble. The panel was talking about moving jobs to low wage countries and these ASSININE pundits, trying to say that that's good said, "There was a time when Americans could compete [with wages paid in other countries]. When they wanted to stand on their own two feet." Standing on their own two feet with such starvation wages? How does someone stand on their own two feet as slaves? These guys are a perfect example of wanting their "freedom" at the expense of other people's. The narcissism of these people is unbelievable.

It is a clear illustration of Marxist theory that humans lived in egalitarian society until the domestication of plants and animals after which the same principle of domestication was applied to people beginning different kinds of slavery and the subjugation of women. These guys are so concerned about their own"liberty" but don't care how many working people they crush in order to get it. Their freedom at the expense of others'. Clearly, the liberty of the working people is not important, only their own is. The working people are not people to them. They are oxen to be driven and exploited for all that can be gotten from them.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 49 weeks ago
#14

What you've just described illustrates perfectly the reason I gave up TV years ago. Why should I pay a bill each month for the privilege of accessing something that used to be free, and the privilege of being annoyed & offended on a daily basis in my own house?!

The way Thom describes human history is like a cycle that keeps going 'round and 'round. Now we're stuck in the Guilded Age part of the cycle. Whoopie, here we go again...

Thom has reminded us how many ancient indigenous cultures (native Americans in particular) viewed greed as a mental illness. By contrast, our culture nurtures qualities such as narcissism and greed. It is these sides of human nature that are the root of all evil.

- Aliceinwonderland

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 49 weeks ago
#15

No Mr. Ware, you don't understand at all. You characterize my defense of Palindromedary as some warm & fuzzy, chick-flick sort of thing, like PD and I are these two kindred spirits blindly loyal to one another, stickin' together through thick an' thin. Presumptuous, dismissive and condescending, just as I would expect from you.

I've had my own disaggreements with PD. But unlike you Mr. Ware, he knows how to hold his own in a debate without losing his cool and resorting to personal attacks. We manage to get along unhindered by differences of opinion. I can say the same about my exchanges with No Fraud. But now with you. If you're gonna imply or insist my more civil dialogues with PD profile us as the Hand-Holding Buddies in Blogland, then hey, dream on pal. Create your own reality!

I'm not begrudging you the right to express your opinions. It is your hostile attitude and disrespect for the opinions of others that bothers me.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 49 weeks ago
#16
Quote ken ware-21 Nov #9:"We have been under constant observation in many of the larger cities and especially in areas that are mostly Latino or African American that have a high crime rate."
"Eventually they will switch from choppers to drones to keep an eye on hot spots of crime."
"Get used to being monitored because it has been going on for the last decade with the installation of cameras on every stop light and with high recognition software privacy is a thing of the past....Smile your on candid camera!!"
Quote ken ware-23 Nov #20:"Whether we like it or not we will continue to be watched by Big Brother for both good and evil proposes. The important thing is to make sure we are aware of this and to know what they do with this information as best we can." "SMILE YOU'RE ON CANDID CAMERA!"

http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2012/11/despite-receiving-little-attent...

Quote ken ware-7 Nov #27:"Palindromedary, I really thought you were gone, or hoped as much!"

" I was really hoping to see your stupid and pious name,"Palindromedary" in some online obituary column. If you really had any balls you would use your own name and picture for your rants instead of hiding behind some delusional name!"
" Why don't you run for office? You seem to think you’re the type of person who has all the answers to the problems that plague America. Probably because you would be assassinated the first week in office..."

http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2012/11/american-people-gave-president-...

Quote ken ware-11 Dec #4:"I think Palindromedary is rubbing off on me, because I am beginning to think this B.S. between the White House and Republicans is a conspiracy to slide Austerity measures into the budget and then they will blame each other for it."

http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2012/12/massive-labor-protests-are-expe...

Quote ken ware-26 Dec #120:"Palindromedary - I am not so sure about being fearless, I would call it stubbornness! My daughter, who is somewhat protective of her dad, agrees with you about using my name and mentioning my physical location. Your right that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of prevention. That is something I should consider. I am not as young as I once was and I need to mellow out. I end up being too aggressive both online and in life when it comes to matters that are important to me. I need to stick to the point without interjecting so much emotion."

http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2012/12/republican-party-self-destructe...

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 49 weeks ago
#17

(Reply to #63, con't) You really do need to lighten up and learn to engage in these discussions in a more civilized manner, without being so heavy-handed all the time. You take for granted that your point of view warrants respect, yet you seem incapable of showing the same kind of respect to everyone else. While it is inevitable some of us will get on each other's nerves from time to time, you seem to go beyond that, always coming on like you're ready for a fight. You might think that's "masculine"; from my perspective it's no more than a common bully tactic, one we an always expect from those wishing to dominate the discussion.

As for your reference to "political correctness"... haven't I heard that sound bite before? Platitudes and insults will only get you so far. - Aliceinwonderland

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 49 weeks ago
#18
Quote ken ware 29 Dec #47: "Do you really think that manikins might have cameras in their eyes to watch you as you pass by?"

Bionic Mannequins Spy on Shoppers to Boost Luxury Sales
By Andrew Roberts - 2012-11-21T18:16:07Z

Store mannequins are meant to catch your eye. Soon you may catch theirs.

Fashion brands are deploying mannequins equipped with technology used to identify criminals at airports to watch over shoppers in their stores.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-19/bionic-mannequins-spy-on-shoppe...

And if you don't think bloomberg is a credible source, why don't you do a google search on Mannequins Spy Camera ? There are lots of sources... you just have to look.

Quote ken ware:" I have also heard you comment that several household appliances might have concealed equipment in them to monitor your personal life. Doesn't that sound a little paranoid to you? Living in constant fear that you are being watched can lead to a mental state of paranoia. You must live in a very scary world with all the people you think are watching you. Sad..."

CIA Chief: We’ll Spy on You Through Your Dishwasher--

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/03/petraeus-tv-remote/

I guess you must prefer the "Ignorance is bliss" denial philosophy...where this is surely the best of all possible worlds. The authorities always have our best interests at heart. Just ask Torquemada in whatever incarnation he exists past or present.

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 49 weeks ago
#19

Aliceinwonderland - Lightenup? Heavy handed? Take for granted my POV warrants respect? Boy are you reading me wrong. I could not care less whether you or anyone respects my comments! I do not expect you or anyone else to do anything but make your comments and reply if you wish. I guess you missed my comment when I stated politics to me is a war game. If you think my comments are hostile you obviously have never heard real hostile comments. Bullying tactics, I do not make comments for someone to agree with me, I could not careless. I detest politicians who stand there and say my friend on the right or left, when all these guys want is their bill passed and obviously from the remarks we have heard “off camera or from a dead microphone" is that they dislike each other immensely and hold the American public with contempt. That is the real nature of politics. And when I express myself I too take it as politics between civilians. I am gender biased when it comes to individual people and comments. Women and men have a completely different bio-chemical makeup. Testosterone, which I have high levels of, is why men are generally more aggressive than women. Well at least some men. Ready for a fight, yes I am always ready for a political fight with people who I deem to be detrimental to my beliefs or my country. I detest Republican politicians and the people who support them. As far as palindromedary goes I have no problem with him showing my past comments to him. I stand firmly behind what I have said. If I did not I would not be showing my picture and on numerous times state that I am from Southern California. I see timid people and people like Palindromedary as cowards. One good example of my attitude is if some unknown person walked into my home and I considered him a threat to me or my family, he would not walk out. I do believe that individuals, who know how to safely use a firearm, should have the right to own them and use them if threatened in their home or property. I am not interested in anyone’s point of view on firearms and believe people have the right to have several weapons if they choose. The police dept. is a reactionary organization. They only show up after something happens and they react to the situation. I carry the same POV towards politics. As far as Palindromedary goes I think he is a very timid individual and like many people hide behind cute pseudonyms for their names. I do not ask for your respect concerning my comments nor do I care. I hope that helps you to understand where I am coming from. Politics is not a civil game or ideology. We go to war over political differences and I have had to survive warfare, unlike many other men of today. Hartmann is always ready for a fight, otherwise why would he have individuals with completely different ideology than his on his show? Didn't you notice one of the main parts of his program is called," The Lone Liberal Rumble" or words close to that. You call my masculine approach as a bullying tactic. A bully tries to get the other person to do or agree with his point of view. I could not care less if you agreed with me!

And as far as Palindromedary posting my comments I have no problem with that, I do not back down from what I have said and will probably repeat my comments in the future unless my comments are restricted from Hartmann's blog. I think the man is timid and a person with a paranoid problem. He quotes the remarks of other people with very little originality in his comments. Anyone who believes the Government was behind the 911 attacks and he actually thinks manikins are equipped with cameras for eyes is somewhat delusional and paranoid. That is just my take on it and if you think that these comments are hostile, that is your problem.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 49 weeks ago
#20

And it is also your problem Mister Testosterone, like it or not. Disagreeing with someone is one thing; assuming on the basis of that disagreement that (s)he is a "detriment" to your beliefs or your country is something else. It reveals a lack of diplomacy. Calling other bloggers "timid" and "cowards" and in general, labeling people you disagree with, only reflects poorly on you and encourages us to label you right back. You come across as an Angry White Man with an axe to grind. Perhaps a little weight training might help you get some of that out of your system.

If you think it appropriate to define others in such negative terms for daring to disagree with you, while viewing politics & war as a "game", this makes you a part of the problem. We need viable solutions to these problems plaguing our culture: dynamics of one-upmanship, competition over cooperation and animosity. That won't get us all very far into the next century. - Aliceinwonderland

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 49 weeks ago
#21
Quote ken ware: " Anyone who believes the Government was behind the 911 attacks and he actually thinks manikins are equipped with cameras for eyes is somewhat delusional and paranoid."

Well, Ken, I'm certainly not alone in believing that elements within our Government was behind 911..at least a big part of it. And at the very least, they planned, suckered and facilitated the entry into this country of the so-called terrorist hijackers knowing full well what would happen...and was counting on it. But there are many well educated people, scientists and engineers and people of other professions that believe that there is more than ample hard evidence that 911 was an inside job...conceived, planned, and orchestrated by traitors inside the power structure of the United States. But, of course, with you...it doesn't matter how much evidence is presented...you have your mind made up that the official government conspiracy theory is true. What you have is a bad case of cognitive dissonance. Nasty stuff..that! I stay away from it myself.

It sounds like you have an even bigger problem than paranoia...you've obviously been brainwashed by the military and you can't shake it out of your system. You must have been a career military. And it is because of a lot of your comments which makes me think that you may actually be one of those so-called "sock puppets" hired by the military to post blogs attacking anyone who makes comments like the ones that many of us have made...especially me...because the one thing these criminal Pentagon and/or political elements want to disparage is 911 being an inside job. Sometimes you make comments that seem like you want us to believe that you are a liberal but your very right wing comments always give you away. I noticed that when I first mentioned the program that the military has of infiltrating the social media for the purpose of attacking those who are not zombie-like uber-Patriots who have questioned the military and right wing jingoist actions, that you seemed to freak out and started to sling epithets at me....calling me paranoid and using some other very frightening language...like wishing I was dead...hoping that you'd see my name in some on-line obituary column..you said. That's very hostile language! By the way, was that the post that you were frantically trying to delete?

And as for the mannequins being fitted with cameras to spy on people....what? are you deaf or just dense? I already showed you one of the many articles that shows that it is true. But, like I said before, it seems no amount of evidence is going to change your mind about anything.

Oh, and because I am wary enough of what kind of crazy idiots are out there, idiots that try to talk tough and who have nasty weapons, I try to keep my location and identity to myself. I realize that I am not the smartest person in the world for even participating in these blogs because hackers can find out, pretty easily, who I am. Ok, I give up...maybe I'm Vladimir Smirnoffski from Semipalatinsk....or maybe I'm Crissy Carrolinski from Dubuque, Iowa. I could be 80 years old or maybe 20. Here's a hint..there's lots of snow on the ground in my front yard...and it's cold as all get out. Yup, gotta go..gettin' mighty thirsty. Time for a pop, I guess.

No Fraud's picture
No Fraud 9 years 48 weeks ago
#22

Hello ALICEINWONDERLAND

I just wanted to bring to your attention my post #51 which is in response to your post #35 - an on going discussion between you and PALINDROMEDARY.
I was wondering if you had anything further to add...Rather than get caught up in some B.S. argument with KEN WARE (Jerk)...I personally find him to be just some old man who has nothing better to do than bait people into pointless banter by taking childish shots their charector. Maybe he needs a hug? I don't even waste my time reading more than a sentence or two of his posts because more times than not he does just what you have been shakeing your finger at him for.
So as much as I can appreciate your effort to set him straight, and I do agree with what you have said, I don't think you needed to be soooooo lonnnnnng winnnnnnnded.
I'd like to hear your's and PALINDROMEDARY (as well as others) responses to my post #51, and have an open and intellagent discussion...If you feel it worth having.

cheers!

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 48 weeks ago
#23

Take it easy, Ken. Politics in democracy is not supposed to be war. The whole purpose of it (democracy) is so you can disagree with someone WITHOUT having to kill 'em. We're trying to do things here like we're supposed to.

Testoserone does cause aggression but I wonder if you're aware of the studies of the correlation between aggressiveness and intelligence in people. It was found that aggressiveness was inversely proportionate to intelligence in men and directly proportionate in women. That is, more aggressive men are less intelligent than less aggressive men and more aggressive women are more intelligent than less aggressive women. Less aggressive men and more aggressive women are more intelligent and more aggressive men and less aggressive women are less intelligent, if you wanna come at it from that side.

Now, the studies' findings I'm referring to are 30 years old and I don't know if they've been repeated or stayed consistent over these years but even if they haven't that doesn't mean the new findings neccessarily invalidate the old or that the origional results don't show something about people. So maybe you shouldn't feel you gotta try to be aggressive "just because" Of course, I do understand that in the "dog eat dog" everybody's gotta look out for themselves and not let themselves be taken advantage of but you don't gotta be real bad here 'cause we're trying to be civil here so if somebody goes too far you just gotta call 'em on it. You don't have to take their head off.

I'd say this about 9/11. Comitting an act of terrorism and blaming it on the other side is a very old political trick, usually done for the purpose of pretext for starting a war. The U.S. (C.I.A.) did it in the '50s in Viet Nam to get us in it. We don't have any proof about that about 9/11 so we can't make an accusation - but we can have our suspicions.

And, lastly, I don't know about mannequins but I know that PIGEONS are all surveillance robots watching us for the planet Xenu.

Take care, Ken.

Hope we keep hearin from ya.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 48 weeks ago
#24

Your bad ass POV is welcome here, Ken, just try to be civil.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 48 weeks ago
#25

No Fraud- Good morning, bro! Don't worry, I'm done arguing with Mister Testosterone. I've made my point. And I've not forgotten the true purpose of this blog.

Having just reviewed posts #35 & #51, I see nothing to disagree with in your comments. I think violent video games are definitely worth discussing as part of the problem.

Examining that particular issue in the context of brain development is especially troubling. When young kids spend so much time engaged with that macho crap, they are literally being programmed for violence. Consequently, they are more likely to grow up to be bullies and assholes... or maybe even murderers. Our society needs more of those like a dog needs more fleas.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 48 weeks ago
#26

(Reply to #74, con't) The issue of gun violence has many facts because of the various factors feeding into it. In addition to video games programming kids for violence, we need to consider the negative impact of economic injustice which pits people against each other, breeding distrust and animosity and exacerbating just about every social ill you can imagine... which overlaps another facet: this war-oriented economy and culture, making war & violence part of normal everyday life. The scarcity of psychological counseling and mental health services also ties in, well worth discussing in this context.

On more than one occasion I've read of schoolteachers getting fired and/or having their careers ruined, simply for telling their students that violence is wrong, that there are more appropriate wasy of handling conflict.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 48 weeks ago
#27

(Reply to #74, con't) Anyway... I'm all talked out on the subject of guns and violence. What needs to be done to remedy this ain't exactly rocket science, nor is it a mystery; like our economic crisis and healthcare crisis, and everything else we find ourselves struggling with as a society, the solutions aren't that difficult to figure out. The main obstacle seems to be legislators beholden to corporate interests, who uphold a status quo that is toxic for everyone. Gets old, doesn't it? - Aliceinwonderland

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 48 weeks ago
#28
Quote Mark Saulys:"And, lastly, I don't know about mannequins but I know that PIGEONS are all surveillance robots watching us for the planet Xenu."

Yes, I've heard that too! ;-}

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 48 weeks ago
#29

No Fraud: I can't disagree with anything you said in #51 or #74 or #75. I agree 100%!

ckrob's picture
ckrob 9 years 48 weeks ago
#30

In regard to tax reform, an income tax of 91% (as has been done successfully before) should be tried again or a small wealth tax. The ultra-wealthy would begin to leave money in their business interests and (perhaps) pay the people who actually produce new wealth more appropriately. The current trend of concentration of wealth, if not reversed, will destroy our democracy. Who wants to volunteer for feudalism just so the poor ol' billionaires don't have to suffer so much?

mathboy's picture
mathboy 9 years 48 weeks ago
#31

Sorry, ken ware, you haven't indicated what state you're in. I can only narrow it down to VT, MA, CT, DE, MD, WV, IL, AR, WA, OR, CA, and HI before including "a state most people like to take jabs at". With that, I'll guess either West Virginia or Arkansas. In fact, I'll say Arkansas, because WV probably has too few wealthy people to form an exodus.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 48 weeks ago
#32

Remember all the panic approaching the year 2000 when all manner of calamity would break out? The so-called Y2k bug that would cause all kinds of disasters. Well, look out...here's 2013 about to happen. The big bad boogie man called the Fiscal Cliff will soon be upon us...just a matter of a few hours now.

It sure would be nice if they pushed the Pentagon over the Fiscal Cliff into the depths of Hell. And speaking of Hell and the Pentagon...has anyone read that article by Mr. Scheer at Truthdig.com about Cerberus a privately held $20billion private equity firm named after the 3 headed dog that guards the gates of Hell? Seems Dan (potatoe) Quayle is a top executive there. Cerberus is also the manufacturer of the assault weapon used in Connecticut. They own Freedom Group Inc.—which refers to itself as “the largest manufacturer of commercial firearms and ammunition,” sold in 80 countries. They also own Chrysler Corp and DynCorp. These bastions of laissez faire and Ayn Rand capitalism went around with their socialist hands out looking for a bailout from the government to save Chrysler. And the banks the same thing. All of Wall Street had their hands out when their contrivances and wild unregulated bets failed.

Must have been quite a hoot to hear these preachers of austerity (for the little people)...with their sermons of "stand on your own two feet" to the tax payers who bailed them out to hear them say "Brother, can you spare a dime?" And then turn right around and belittle those of us who have put our many dimes into the till to save up for social security. And then the hypocrites preached that social security had to be drowned in a bathtub...or at least put on 13-black at the Casino Capitalism Club on Wall Street. Hmmm....Casino Capitalism Club Politicians (CCCP). CCCP translated to the Cyrillic = SSSR in Soyuz Sovetskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik (aka USSR-Union of Soviet Socialist Republic). So the UShas taken on much of the characteristics of the Soviet Republic..and the Republican party even took on the colors of the Soviet Union...RED...... Continuous propaganda... Special renditions..torture..illegal invasions... creation of false flags like 9/11..hegemony.. spying on it's own people.. a police state.. violence against peaceful demonstrators. The one difference, perhaps, is the economic system of Casino Laissez Faire Capitalilsm which does basically the same thing as Central Planning State Ownership....forces the majority into servitude and poverty while a tiny fraction who sit at the top controls everything and everyone. Except the capitalists achieve their goals by using very sophisticated propaganda..TV, movies. The Soviets tried but most people were able to see through the lies...as today...many people are starting to see though the lies of the Capitalist State. The Soviet's hype was for everyone to work hard for the state so that they would make a better world for their children. The State would take care of all in the future. The Capitalist's hype tells us that we must all work hard and put all our money into Casino Capitalism's institutions that will pay out later. How did that work out for a lot of people? It worked out great for a few but many people lost a lot of their retirement funds and even their homes....all because of the machinations of criminal capitalist gangsters gaming the system...only one of whom is now sitting in prison (only because he gave himself up).

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/cerberus_collected_ex-government_opp...

No Fraud's picture
No Fraud 9 years 48 weeks ago
#33

KEN WARE
Vietnam was a sham! The U.S. Government lied lied lied! I think it sad, and worrisome, that you still hold so much pride for this.
As a former Captain in the U.S. Army and now a Consciencious Objector towards the corrupt U.S. Government and its imperealist agenda I don't share your sentament for war being a game. You seem to be a flag waving jingoist, and your not alone since many from your generation are, however I would never blame you for being foolish in your youth and thinking your government was forthright, but to still be singing on about your patriotism & experience in Vietnam while condemming whistleblowers as being cowards, traitors and a danger to our country....is passè. It shows just how much you are in denial. What our country needs now more than ever are more consciencious objectors and whistleblowers from all avenues,(Government, Military, Corporate, Enviromental,etc). Along with prosecuting every Presidential Adminastration since WWI for Fraud, Terrorism, Conspiracy, Murder, Stealing, lieing...The same goes for Wall St.

As for your hostle demeanor KEN...Have you always been this way? Have you ever sought professional help? Most of what you say to others reveals some serious anger issues and could be a sign you are a danger to yourself and others. Seek help Ken...I don't want anything bad to happen to you or anyone else.
namasta

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 48 weeks ago
#34

Ken #13

Hi Ken, thanks for all the insightful commentary, I've enjoyed it quite a bit. On the matter of pharmaceutical industry conspiracy theories I must agree with you about the drugs themselves not causing the problem. Nor do I believe the pharmaceutical industry is intentionally turning patients into psychopathic homicidal Zombies. However, I must emphasis what you said about monitoring these patients more closely as indeed hitting the nail on the head as to the cause of this problem. Monitoring closely is also the solution to this problem.

If you look carefully at the history of these 'shootings' you will see them practically disappear in frequency just before the great Ronald Reagan discontinued funding of Mental Institutions. People with severe mental disorders used to have a facility that would administer experimental medications under round the clock close supervision of a trained professional staff. Only when the staff was convinced that the medication worked without 'unintended consequences' would the patient be released. Also, the staff was held accountable for the patient even after being released. They assigned social workers who continued to monitor the progress of the patients at home, make sure they took their medications, interviewed family members, etc. Without this observation, writing prescriptions that change mental chemistry to people who already have an abnormal mental chemistry is Russian Roulette and pure insanity.

If there is any true conspiracy in the prescription drug/FDA relationship, it involves the discontinuation of funding of Mental Institutions and their staff members and shifting all the finances solely to the pharmaceutical industry; and then, switching the blame of the obvious 'unintentional consequences' to Gun Control, Government Conspiracies, Parents, Violence in the Movies and Video Games, and basically anything other than the Government being responsible and monitoring the administration of these medicines the way that has proven to be historically effective. The pharmaceutical industry has no say because they are getting rich. They don't feel responsible for these incidents; and, in fact, they are not. The Government is!

Ken, alcohol has been around longer than you or I. I admit that it does contribute to violence and unnecessary loss of life. It's also the most popular medicine used to treat depression! Yet I know of no successful serial killer who when drunk managed to operate several heavy automatic weapons and hit moving targets. The bottom line is alcohol didn't play a role in any of these cases and probably never will; unless, the killer is driving a car.

The obvious solution, bring back Mental Institutions and give American family's a resource for treatment of their afflicted members. And, yes, that's fully tax payer funded institutions at that. Family's should never have to sacrifice their savings to treat a member with a mental disability. That would only discourage the seeking of treatment and further contribute to the problem; in effect, putting us all at risk.

Thank You! Happy New Year! Be safe and healthy!

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 48 weeks ago
#35

I haven't been following this conversation but I have no doubt that the pharmaceutical industry is, in fact, behind the gross overmedicating of our children simply because they have such a vested interest in it and have such ability to influence public policy as well as the public's appetites and it's perceptions of its own needs. I've heard on good authority that, these days, if you were to visit an elementary school you'd think you were in a psych ward if you didn't know better from the way the school nurse has the kids line up a couple of times a day to give them their meds, which are, by far, mostly psychiatric medications.

Similarly most psychiatrists and, for that matter, physicians in general would tell you the pharmaceutical industry really pushes their drugs on them to the point of influencing and distorting their treatment plans. This is not to mention how pharmaceutical manufacturers skew the studies they conduct and suppress information about negative side effects.

Also, some psychiatrists have made an observation that many of the mass shoorters were off their meds the day of their shooting thus causing the reconsidering of the wisdom of treatments that cause the patients to rely too much upon - and become too dependant upon - the psychiatric drugs.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 48 weeks ago
#36

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 48 weeks ago
#37

Ken #70

Oh Ken, how I do enjoy your well written comments! I deeply respect your passionate opinions and your sophisticated POV; however, I feel you misjudge those of us pacifists who completely reject violence and aggression as a means to resolve conflicts.

Thom does welcome verbal fights on his show but if you listen carefully he very calmly bludgeons his opponents with his wit and knowledge of the facts. He masterfully uses his opponents argument against them the way a martial arts expert uses his opponents momentum, and uses reverse logic the way a ventriloquist throws his voice into his dummy's head. He routinely forces his opponent to disagree with themselves. I love it! Thom is The Master! He never resorts to belittling them or raising his voice. The worst thing I ever heard him do is hang up on an opponent in an emotionally weak moment. Of course he immediately apologized and admitted it was a mistake. Kudos to Thom. It is far more noble, indeed, to openly admit and correct a mistake then to vainly attempt to minimize and bury it--especially when one's emotions are flaring.

I also understand, but respectfully disagree with the idea that a man needs a firearm to be safe even in their own home. Personally, I have never owned or possessed one in my life, have never needed one, and I live in one of the most violently crime ridden areas of Oakland CA. I've lived here for 50 years and I love this town. I walk all of its streets without any fear and have never had a problem.

Honestly, I can't think of any material possession I have that I wouldn't readily give up rather than having to live with the knowledge that I took someone's life to keep it. Of course I can see where you'd want to protect yourself against personal assault from an intruder; but, statistically the odds of that occurring in one's lifetime rival the odds of winning the lottery. As you may have guessed, I don't play the lottery. I firmly believe that with my temper if I did own a firearm, I probably wouldn't be here writing this today.

Also, I disagree and take issue with the suggestion that a man who seeks to resolve conflicts peacefully is a coward. It takes a lot of self control and bravery to 'turn the other cheek.' I suggest if you haven't already you should try it sometime to see for yourself. It isn't easy! However, it does have the advantage of ending a conflict as decidedly as the use of any firearm.

I personally fear no man. Which is why I don't feel it necessary to own a firearm. I firmly believe that physical violence is not a productive or lasting solution for any conflict. War itself is no more than clear evidence of failed leadership. Any Leader's main charge in Office is to maintain peace and regulate commerce. War is the result of incompetence, corruption, and irresponsibility at the top.

As a Veteran I'm sure you agree that war is and should be a last resort and never business as usual. Controlling people through military force ruins trust, sow's resentment, destroys our international credibility, soils our reputation, cannot be sustained, and cripples any chance to establish permanent profitable business with our opponents. Furthermore, it creates more enemies then it eliminates. The most dangerous threat to our country's National Security today is it's very own Defense Industry.

I have also learned--the hard way--that resorting to--or threatening to resort to--violence early in a conflict tends to create additional problems that make permanent conflict resolution more complicated. Look at how well that solution is--and has been--working in the Middle East. Violence begets violence in an unending snowball of perpetual misery, pointless hatred, wasted energy, lost life, and forfeited opportunity. Often times taking a moment to look at the situation from an opponents POV is what tends to lead to real permanent solutions; and, more often than not, mutually beneficial and profitable alternatives as well. War may be good for the profit of the Defense Industry; but, Peace is more profitable and preferable to everyone else.

However, I respect your opinions as well as admire your confidence and ability to responsibly own a firearm. It would be a miracle if I could possess one for any given amount of time without accidentally shooting myself. LOL I certainly hope the need to use a gun never arises in my lifetime, but if it does, I truly hope I'm fortunate enough to have someone like you around that day. More power to you. Please, take it easy on us pacifists! After all, we are on the same side and want what is best for us all! Marc

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 48 weeks ago
#38

Thanks Mark. Your points are certainly well said, and I couldn't agree with them more. I'm simply stating that I don't hold the drug industries personally responsible for these shootings.

I agree, the medications distributed to kids today is an abhorrent travesty. The role of the pharmacological industry is prominent in this travesty; but, it is the role of the school staff and the children's parents that need to be at the forefront.

Don't think I'm trying to defend the pharmaceutical industry. I know they are allowing their bottom line to interfere with their common sense and public responsibility. They do society and people a great service when they treat patients who are in legitimate need of treatment; and, they do themselves and everyone else a great disservice when they market there products to healthy people to sedate them for easier social harmony.

However, they don't hold a gun to people's heads. More often than not it is the patient that requests these drugs. In fact, they demand them. In the end, they are the ones with the executive decision to put the thing in their body. There really is no one else to blame.

Should the Government exercise greater restriction of the pharmaceutical industry. Well, Mark, you and I both know the answer to that question is yes!

And, I still stand by my original point, the solution to these shootings is reinstating of tax payer funded Mental Institutions defunded by the Reagan administration.

They had a bad rap because many patients were commited in them for life. However, better to spend ones life in a hospital seeking a cure to a dangerous mental condition than in a jail cell after taking several innocent lives.

Thanks for the response! Happy New Year! Marc

Wendalore's picture
Wendalore 9 years 48 weeks ago
#39

Antidepressants cause people to murder people?? I don't think so. (I just went back over this thread and can't even find what I was replying to! But I know it was there!!)
Have you heard the saying that goes, "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc." ???? I memorized this not too long ago... even with my 71 year-old mind.... because it's so important. And in just such occasions as this.
For those who don't know (and everyone should) "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc." is a fallacy, a fallacious way of thinking. It means "After this, because of this." In this case, your article is saying that AFTER the murderers took tri-cyclic anti-depressants, they murdered people. THEREfore, they murdered people BECAUSE they took anti-depressants!! NOT!!!
I started taking Prozac in the late 1980s and it helped me become functional. I had been depressed since childhood. I still take them—different kind, but my brain was so affected by childhood experiences that it was not save-able by therapy alone. I have NEVER EVER have come close to considering killing someone!! OMG no!! Recently I took revenge on someone who had hurt my feelings. FIRST time in my LIFE I ever deliberately took revenge! And do you know what I did? I had an interaction with her that made her angry and uncomfortable! Boy, did I feel good! Now, I'm not saying that any kind of revenge is spiritual—I'm saying that antidepressants have not had the effect on me of causing me to consider to committing murder. Me and thousands, even millions of other people who take antidepressants to help us function!!! No murder for us!!
The "causes" of human behavior are subtle and complex. Everyone needs to realize that. In this case, we have an American culture, that for numerous reasons, has been changing, and for some people, it is getting worse. One might say that it has lost its way. More accurately, one might say that it never has had a "way" that works for everyone. IMHO, humans have many more generations of evolution to go through before we will become more capable of taking sufficiently good care of ourselves.
In the cases of mass murder, we have people born into our flopping-around not-knowing-what-to-do culture. Many millions of people feel unhappy. Antidepressants were invented to help those people. And the mass murderers amongst us are unhappy people who have also been prescribed antidepressants. That's the connection between antidepressant medication and mass murder. And that's all. (and in looking over this thread, I saw someone saying that they believe that the pharmaceutical companies "push" their drugs on people. Well, maybe so, but I know how glad *I* am that I can take them.)
Let's look toward keeping guns out of the hands of people in general. Yes, OK, a gun in the homes of those who have demonstrated they are stable. A hunting rifle for the hunters. But make them a whole lot harder to get than a driver's license, for Heaven's sake. And let's forget this antidepressant theory as a link to what causes mass murder. It's overly simplistic to the point that it is misleading and innaccurate. This is not where our attention needs to be.

Wendalore (innocent antidepressant taker)

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 48 weeks ago
#40

I'm so sorry Wendalore!

I was speaking about indiscriminately prescribing unmonitored medication to people with SEVERE mental disorders; and not minor emotional issues. It's unfortunate in a way that almost all of us rely on one thing or another to cope.

You're certainly not alone! In fact, I do believe the vast majority of people in our country today rely on some chemical to get through the day. I think it would be a challenge to find any that don't! And no, I do not condemn anyone for seeking relief from the stress of today's hectic life.

In fact, it is a God send that there is a chemical solution out there for everybody.

Besides, I myself suffered a bout with manic depression in my child hood as well. It was the worst feeling I ever felt in my life. I just wanted to die. That condition is no joke. There was no medication at the time and luckily I recovered on my own. But I'll never forget it. My parents kept telling me to, "Snap out of it!" Little did either of us know what was going on.

Don't take what I said the wrong way, we weren't talking about you Sweet Heart. I'm happy that you found something that helps you. Please, don't stop taking it. And the best of luck to you.

Take care and have a wonderfull Happy New Year!

Marc

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 48 weeks ago
#41

I appreciate the opinions and comments stated on this particular Blog. I would like to make a few statements to clarify my position.

1st. - The equation of aggression and I.Q. I was involved in an accident where I was injured severely. The insurance company required me to take an I.Q., exam and my results were that I registered in the top twenty percentile. So even though the article you refer to found a correlation between aggressive men and low intelligence, I doubt if that applied to all men in general. Many of our top leaders came from a career in the military where aggressiveness is seen as a quality not a detriment to their career. As a matter of personal record I do work out every day and walk five to seven miles a day. Physical workouts are good for the mind and body and as a sixty year old, I am in better shape than most young people who sit on their butts all day. Being an old man is a matter of perception, one should not dismiss someone for their age, because in many situations that "old man", is more capable than many young men out there.

2nd. My point about the Pharma Corporations is that by far they do more good than harm to mankind. All salesmen and women who push their products (Cars to Computers) do so for profit and are rewarded in sales. So it is no long shot that doctors say the Pharma Sales People are aggressive in pushing their product. It is their job to sell whatever product they "pushing" in the market place.

3rd. I am not praising War; I am acknowledging the blood, sweat and sacrifice our military personnel spend on keeping this nation safe. We actually do have real enemies that would like nothing more than to see our nation fall under their heels. I am proud of the men I served with in Vietnam and I am proud of the sacrifices we had to make. I am not a consciences objector to war, I am a warrior who believes the military has it place in our society and to look down on our fighting men and women is a disgrace to ones-self and our country. I am sorry to hear that you as an ex- officer feels our military should be seen in less than a noble light because of the criminals in Washington have created situations that the military has to deal with in order to serve this nation.

4th. I live in S. California not AK. Or anywhere near that part of the country. I own weapons and respect your desire that you do not need any. But if we ever have the type of natural disaster that would allow looters and "the bad guys", to roam the streets in search of prey, neither I nor my family will be unprotected. The police are limited in their ability to protect all the civilians in their area should a major earthquake strike us here in an earthquake zone. The only thing that keeps the "bad guys" from committing heinous crimes is their fear that we may be armed and ready to use our weapons. I too hope that situation never befalls me it would bother me to kill in a non-war zone situation.

5th. I have spent the last several hours searching Google for information about the government both local and federal using listening devices in our homes and appliances. I read what Gen. Petraius stated as the head of the C.I.A. in 2011 concerning new technology being used to observe those who would use terrorism against us. The appliances he was referring too are those new appliances that are controlled from ones computer such as smart refrigerators, home heating, smart electrical boxes that regulate and monitor electrical usage in our homes and TV’s that you can use the internet to operate. There was one article about a man finding a small camera devise and microphone in his cable box. It was a hoax. You can verify that as well on Google. Will the government try to use devices in the future to monitor us, let’s hope we will still have protection under the Constitution and Bill of Rights? Yet, who knows what the Supreme Court will do in the future to our civil rights.

6th. I do agree that I at times react in an aggressive manner when I read something someone has written that I feel is demeaning or a generalization as in all people who use antidepressants should be monitored and not allowed to own guns! I thankfully do not have to use this type of medication, but I have people that I am close to that do use an antidepressant because of a biological imbalance. And not all antidepressants are of the same category as Provsacs (spelling?) that do cause some people to react in a physically violent manner. But, these people are monitored for side effects of all types that could be life threatening. I defend the Pharma Corporations because they produce such a large array of drugs that help cancer patients to people who have many other illnesses.

7th. If you make a highly confrontational statement, you should be aware of the fact someone is going to answer that with equal zeal and content that might be seen as offensive. As far as Hartmann and the way he quiets his guests is he simply changes the subject or reference that they are speaking about. To be politically correct is to simply ignore what someone has said and respond in a calm and non-alarming manner. Does anyone really believe that the politicians are all good ole buddies when they are in total disagreement with their political opponent and are debating them for the job of being president or other important matters of state?

8th. I hope my retorts have not been too aggressive for you who feel being a pacifist is the only way to live. Obviously I am not a Pacifist at heart. A healthy and happy New Year to everyone, regardless of whether you are a pacifist or not! Ha. A little humor.

9th. And if one makes a serious allegation that he believes the U.S. Government flew the aircraft that struck the Twin Towers by remote control and planted thermite devices to make sure the Towers fell as well as buildings on the complex, one has to expect logical individuals to ridicule such a statement. I have read the article online that you posted. I mentioned this too several of my associates and they had similiar responses as the one I posted about this subject. I am sorry if this sounds like redicule, but come on now! I do not think the Bush Administration, as crazy as they were, needed to kill 3,000 people to start a war against the people of Afghanistan.

10th. If I comment in the future on this Blog, I will try to be what many of you have called a civil attitude towards those who seem to be of a different mind set...or if they don't seem to have much of a mind at all! But unfortunately for me, as many of you have implied, I could not become a Pacifist no matter how hard I might try!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 48 weeks ago
#42

Very nice comment, Ken! And I agree with a lot of what you say but, of course, disagree on other things. I have no problem with people who disagree with me. And I realize that anything I say may not necessarily be the absolute truth, that I could be wrong, although I believe it is true at the time I write it but that given more information..I might change my mind. It would be a very boring world if we all agreed on everything. Actually, I think you are very intelligent...as has been shown by many of your well written posts. ☮

Sorry about my photo of UglyFluffy...it got there by mistake. I've tried to change it but it changes then changes back...maybe in time it'll just go away. It's just about as frustrating as the Reply to: ## sometimes getting mixed up.
☮☮☮☮☮☮☮

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 48 weeks ago
#43

Palindromedary - As I read the comments I realized I too am wrong at times and the way I handle things. Your overall picture of the government using appliances is correct in specific situations. And obviously, not many people agreed with me!Ha. Your right, things I scoufed at now appear to have a point of truth to them. You were right about the manikins having cameras in their eye sockets, I read that as well! So I guess there is room for growth in all of us. I tried to change my picture and end up with the same mug shot no matter what I do. Maybe it is just the system...Have a good one, Ken. Yeah, it seems Hartmann needs to have his I.T. take a look at the way the response gives the wrong ## to the comment one is addressing!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 48 weeks ago
#44

Many cell phones, iphones, tablets use G4 wireless and are now using ipv6 (with more IP addresses than we'll ever need). Dishwashers, refrigerators..whatever, could easily have microprocessors fitted with network cards (or rather network chips) and wireless access points that broadcast everything that is said in the room, wirelessly, just as if you had left your iphone turned on and sitting on the table. And with microphones on the card and filters to filter out the noise of a compressor ( if a refrigerator) and amplification of voice frequencies spying on people would be quite possible. All of this would fit on a small circuit card and installed on any of your kitchen appliances. And with the huge and expensive NSA spy centers, like in Utah, they would have no problem monitoring what anyone is saying right inside the home. I know it sounds paranoid..but let's face it ...we have paranoid government agencies that have the technology and since Rumsfeld had stated publicly just the day before 9/11 that the Pentagon was unable to account for $2.3Trillion and later they said that even more huge amount were unaccountable in Iraq. And after all those huge bailouts...and now they are squeezing us all for even more money...I think that something is rotten in Denmark (I mean the US). They have already built some huge spy centers and they are about to complete the biggest one yet in Utah ( many $billions). And with that article where that CIA director (Patraeus) admitted that they soon would be able to have spy devices in kitchen appliances...it might be a good idea if people didn't buy new appliances. But eventually many people will have to buy them when the old ones wear out. ☯

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 48 weeks ago
#45

Thanx, Ken! I appreciate that a lot. @☮

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 48 weeks ago
#46

Awwww... I LOVED "Ugly Fluffy"! He was so friggin' cute! I was actually disappointed to see him go.

My husband & I have tried changing my blog photo but so far, without luck. I was hoping to switch photos now & then just for fun. Oh well... - Aliceinwonderland

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 48 weeks ago
#47

So what if the government eaves drops on you? At least that creates an easy well paid job for someone.

Don't worry, they can't hear everything everyone says; there's not enough people in the government. There not going to hire half of us to listen to the other half. Shame though. That might resolve the unemployment problem.

And besides what are you afraid they might overhear, your mother's french toast recipe? Perhaps your secret plans to design and build a Doomsday Cannon. Or, maybe how you cheat on your taxes by claiming your furry cat as a dependent?

My mother had a great piece of advice. She always told me, "If you don't have anything good to say about anyone don't say anything at all. The walls have ears and negative energy has a way of coming back to you and biting you in the a...."

I have lived a long and happy life full of political discourse without any fear of anything I have ever said. In fact, I'd love it if Uncle Sam listened to what I have to say because I'd give them an ear full. I'd love nothing better than for the Government to monitor my every word. I'd even be happy to repeat myself and send them a written transcript if they didn't get it down right the first time. If I were you, I'd say everything like someone is listening. It's probably better for you if you did anyway.

And don't be afraid to speak up, speak clearly, and speak your mind.

Don't let fear or paranoia ruin your New Years celebration or your first amendment rights.

2012 was a long year for us all. You should be grateful its finally over and we're all still here.

Happy New Year buddy!

And to everyone else! Cheers!!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 48 weeks ago
#48

Seriously though Palindromedary, let me calm your fears. I happen to work in the high tech industry on state of the art equipment by a number of well known company's. I am factory trained on all aspects of how this equipment works and I assure you, though technically possible, there are no such devices installed in the equipment that I work on. I program, setup, maintain and troubleshoot this equipment every day, I know the equipment inside and out and am familiar with all the circuitry and all it's functions. I have Service Manuals, Manufacturers Bulletins, and Technical Support at my fingertips.

It is a feasible notion, I admit, however very impractical to pull off. In addition, the theory lacks motive. What do Company's hope to gain in this scenario? Manufacturers hold tight their patents on state of the art equipment and do everything they can to reduce manufacturing cost. Installing additional accessories at no extra cost for the sole purpose of allowing the government to illegally eavesdrop on citizens is something no company is going to go along with. If they did, they risk that if the story should ever leak out the company involved would shortly go out of business. Their reputation would never recover. No company is going to risk that fate to help the government break the law and harm its customers.

Relax buddy!

PS I liked the Ugly Fluffy Cat too!

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 48 weeks ago
#49

DAnnemark - I personally do not fear the government or I would not write about certain things that I have commented on. But the idea the spying eyes of the government are watching me watch TV "Freaks" me out somewhat. Not that I have something to hide, but I am extremely uncomfortable with the idea the spy agencies have free access to observe me whenever they choose to. I read an article earlier today when I was doing some research on Google and read where one gentleman made a statement on Facebook that the American Public should stand up to the government in every possible way and mentioned Anarchy as a possible solution sometime in the future. He was arrested for posting a threat against the Federal Government and inciting people to rebel. Sorry I did not write down the web site so it could be read by others. Now it makes me wonder whether I should stop making antigovernment comments on this Blog and others. If they will go so far as to arrest an American Citizen for speaking his thoughts without actually recruiting people or performing an act against the government, am I safe stating my thoughts online. It may sound like I am getting paranoid, yet how can someone use free speech to make a comment when they might get arrested for it. I also read an article in the local newspaper about a man who was playing a game with his sister’s online using Facebook and was arrested for making threats concerning the mayor when it was part of the game! Someone read his comments on Facebook and turned him into the police and he was arrested. He was locked up and put in the local Hospital psych ward and was ordered to remain there for 72 hours. At the end of the 72 hours the doctor wanted to keep him locked up for additional evaluation! Some of his friends from the Marine Corp. hired a lawyer and he was released after petitioning the court. He owned 2 businesses and was never in any trouble. I hate to admit it but it has me thinking twice when I want to call for protesting against the government. And I am not normally a person who gets paranoid about the government...

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 48 weeks ago
#50

Regarding spy devices hidden in household appliances, PD says: "...it might be a good idea if people didn't buy new appliances. But eventually many people will have to buy them when the old ones wear out."

Hey, there are other options! We can learn to identify the spy devices in these products and dismantle them.... or we can learn sign language! - Aliceinwonderland

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