This is What Real Gun Control Looks Like!
By louisehartmann
Today New York is expected to pass the toughest gun control law in the nation – and the first new gun law since the massacre at Sandy Hook elementary school. Under the new provision, which passed the state Senate Monday night, and will be taken up by the state Assembly today, any assault weapons with a “military rifle” feature will be banned.
Also, every single assault weapon sale, whether through a private dealer or not, will be subject to a background check – and internet sales of assault weapons will be banned altogether. The legal limit for ammo clips will be reduced from ten to seven bullets – and residents who own high-capacity magazines will have one-year to sell them out of state before they are in violation of this new law. Those who refuse could face a misdemeanor for possession of high-capacity ammo clips. There are also provisions to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill who have made violent threats.
New York’s passage of tough gun control laws sets the stage for the national debate. According to the New York Times, President Obama will push for comprehensive gun control – and even endorse 19 specific executive actions he will take on his own – without Congress – to prevent weapons of war from ending up in the hands of the deranged. Among the President’s options include – restrictions on gun imports from overseas, better sharing of mental health records between federal agencies, and tougher background checks.
This fight is just getting started – and the safety of future generations is on the line. Stay tuned.
Comments
#2
Yea, yea. Great, the progressives are cheering more attacks on our bill of rights. New york state has lost it, more regulations, more government control. but yet again just cant waist a tragic event and the opportunity to push FORWARD with the marxist agenda. The second amendment today and then lets go after that first amendment, after all that freedom of speech is a pesky thing and hard to control the message with that in the way. It is not really the Bill of Rights it is the Bill of needs and we don't need those rights. and look for the great leader Obama to enlist some little kids for his gun rights executive order theater propaganda announcement tomorrow. Maybe next week he will try to use the 14th amendment to strip congress of their constitutional power of spending. Power to the almighty government and less power for us people. Go we must,right into tyrany, Take your medicine, bow to the great leaders, and don't forget to get your flu shot. Wake up progressives and stand against this nonsense.
#3
Nora, Ed Schulz is also talking about the destruction of the USPS.
#4
Global, the Second Amendment says nothing about a right to manufacture, sell, or buy weaponry.
#5
In Canada our Liberals started a long gun resgistry that was supposed to cost a few million to start up and after a total flop and over a billion dollars the whole program was cancelled. You will never stop the bad guys from getting guns. Never. I can only speak for Canada, but a lot of our problem is we don't lock up the people we know have a mental problem. We had a guy here on a Greyhound bus lost it and cut a guys head off with a small knife. On the bus. He wasn't taking his Meds. What is someone like that doing on the streets? The same reason we put killers back on the streets because we rehabilitated them or at least we thought we did.
#6
Here we go! What are all of us "progressives" going to do when the Feds turn on us? ALL bloated and broke democracy's eventually turn on there own citizens. Be careful for what you wish for, you may not like what you get. Obama is acting more and more like a Chavenista! Could this be our first dictator in the making? Change You Can Believe In!
#7
Post Exchanges Carrying Guns Now?
While New York is responding to the Newtown shootings, the Army-Air Force Exchange Service is working to get more guns into the hands of service members.
I live in Los Angeles, just a couple of miles from Los Angeles Air Force Base. This very small base has a PX (post exchange) that has taken out its appliances section and is creating a gun shop. A GUN SHOP? You bet. I have a friend who is retired and has PX privileges. He wanted to buy a new fridge and found that the PX there doesn't carry them anymore, and is using the space to sell guns.
While this is just one PX, I would be willing to bet that other--if not all--PXes are doing the same thing. AAFES is a huge chain that supplies all kinds of consumer products to soldiers and airmen around the world. While AAFES is a private concern, not supported by the military, it has a very close working relationship with the Pentagon.
I cannot believe that just one PX is going off on its own and starting a gun store. The guns sold there would be for a service member's private use, not official use. The Air Force and the Army keep their weapons and ammunition in heavily secured arms rooms.
What in God's name--in the wake of Newtown, Aurora, Fort Hood, Portland, Tucson--are these people thinking?
#8
...uh, they are not! you know thinking...
#9
"The right to bear guns” in point of fact, is not guaranteed by the 2nd amendment. No one ever points that out.
Taken literally, our ever-so vaguely worded constitution actually implies that every citizen should be allowed to have a nuclear devise in their basement.
It’s not “gun control” we should be debating. Everyone can keep their guns. And their rifles. And their knives, swords, battleaxes and maces for that matter.
Our visionary Founding Fathers never could have conceived of semi-automatic weapons, the A bomb, or any of the rest of it.
Someone should set up the National Atomic Bomb Association, and argue for the constitutionality of it under the 2nd amendment.
#10
The toughest gun restrictions can be imposed, but will only create a bigger underground market that will feed on the immense quantity of guns in the general population. OMG!!! The United States and any US President are the biggest gun/weapons dealers on the planet. Until this culture of fear and violence can come to grips with the fear and war mongering government and military/industrial complex, the NRA and all the weapons manufacturers they lobby for, NOTHING will stop the senseless murders and carnage. The United States smashes up the rest of the world for power, profit and resources... how can anyone think that hyper-hypocritical gun control can make a real difference... "WE" murder innocent people in foreign countries constantly behind the facade of freedom and righteousness! The horrendous Iraq invasion and occupation that killed countless civilians based on lies and deception is sinking down the memory hole while war criminal leaders like Bush and Cheney walk free with priviledge and wealth. The sickness and carnage we infect and subject the rest of the world with is blowing back on us with a vengeance.
#11
to shoot or not to shoot. to kill or not to kill. to govern or not to govern. that is the question(s)! my real question is why we all go buggers on the issue only when there are "mass shootings" when still everyday someone somewhere is getting shot by someone somehow, hand gun, shot gun, machine gun, bow and arrow! not only have we evolved as a society lacking any civility these days but add in even more lacking in education and what do you get? A stupider nation!!! I can't count the number of times as a kid i wanted to get the ol mans gun out and step out the back door and just shoot it up in the air, or blast crows or just otherwise make noise, but i also knew it was not safe. I knew where he kept them, knew how to load them, new how to shoot them, but? But what? I don't know that boy scouts was really good for much but i am glad i took the gun safety classes. What we need now is hard core regulation. People are just to dumb. You want a gun? Fine, pass a gun safety course, then a mental health evalution and maybe even an IQ test. Get your gun and just like a car? register it every year and also carry additionl liability insurance for each one you own. And as with commercial drivers be required to drug test every 2 years. Also for extre good measure? do a 4 year follow up written exam, you fail? you lose your gun. simple! Now for that lot that have illegal guns? once again get hard core! commit a crime with an illegal weapon equals twice the punishment. oh and by the way? take the hilton out of the prison system and start treating the criminals old school style. You know? three sloppy squares a day no med coverage on my dime, no computer, phone, no nothing. make them suffer like those that suffered at thier hands. Maybe just maybe the gangster and thugs might learn that that jail is no place to be. by the way whats up with the trayvon case!! And one last note as cruel as it may sound. if the cat is clearly guilty with out a doubt? hang em and hang em high, none of this he's mental jive...
#12
Nah, just a few nukes in North Korea, Iran is next, Somalia, Darfur, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Isreal, Global Warming, Oligarchs, France, Greece, EU, Spain, Mexico, Afganistan, Corruption, Military Industrilaists, Debt, 16 trillion, etc. But....we need GUN CONTROL, STOP SODA's, Tax Everyone, Give GE, Google, Facebook, Intel, Oil Co's, tax breaks, blame the families that worked hard to be wealthy, suck up to hedge fund mgrs, fund abortions with my money, fund slackers with my money, fund bull crap nations with my money, etc. etc. The world is going to implode on it's own no matter what we do. I hope I am dead before the collapse. The failure of Obama, Democrats, Republicans and Judicial Branches to Make the Tough Decisions and Do What is Right will be the reason we crater and become a third world country.
#13
Now I never criticize anyone who can riff Hamlet, but spoken as an Ophelia who missed the boat, I think more stupider they get, the longer the wait for a spot in line for CCA. Alas, poor Yorick, I knew him well, but anyone who thinks prison is a Hilton aint spent a night on an extruded cement "bed" with only one thread bare blanket and a half inch of low density foam. If you're not nuts when you go in, you are when you leave. I've been doing meetings in a women's pod for a long time and Ophelia got the better deal. The only way to keep an Uzi (yes I know, I'm dated) out of the hands of the deranged is to not manufacture it in the first place. But profit is both King and jester in this world now and us poor paeons just have to accept that greed is the stage and I didn't even get a bit part. Daggers, anyone? This is what ya get when Reagan closed down all the mental health facilities. They're on the street because we put them there.
#14
I don't think New York is doing the rest of us any favors. Why should items that are now illegal THERE be allowed to be exported to the rest of us? I don't want any more unnecessary guns and ammo or ammo cases sold to California; we've got our own gun problems! The other states should feel the same way... New York should take those large clips and assault-style weaponry and give it to their POLICE and SHERIFFS. Or they should have people turn them in to military bases around the state for conversion to our soldiers. To think that people are going to profit by sending them out of state so others can have more grief, is terrible.
#15
8 years of Bush / Cheney, The Patriot Act taking away our rights as citizens darn right people get scared and get 'gunned' up. Give back our rights and I believe people will loosen their grip on guns. Who can name all the citizen rights that were taken away during the Bush years?
#16
Make that Bush, Cheney and Obama. We've lost more under Obama/Holder than under 8 years of Bush. You make an excellent point, Genevieve.
#17
While we're at it I think we should minimize the homocide potential for automobiles by limiting the horsepower to 100 BHP as measured at the drive wheels and put governors on all new automobiles limiting top speed to 70MPH and place a strict ban on vehicles weighing over 3,500 lbs that are capable of speeds in excess of 70MPH. The HumVee is a weapon of terror, folks! This assault weapon thing is a red herring and an absolute joke. It will make no difference whatsoever, though it makes great headlines. I do believe beefing up the background check criteria and enforcing other existing laws designed to keep guns out of the hands of nut cases is a good idea however.
#18
Papachuck111, you hit it squarely on the head. The bloodshed in these domestic mass killings pales into absolute insignificance compared to the havoc this country has brought down upon innocent civilians in distant lands (conveniently far away) since we invented a reason to bomb Iraq. I think, to put it in Mr. Obama's words, "we have bigger fish to fry" before we go off the deep end on "gun control" here at home.
#19
I agree with a lot of the Liberals on their ideas. But on gun control, I bow out. Take away all my guns, and only the goverment and bad guys have the power to do as they will. (Maybe the gov. and the bad guys are one and the same.) This only happens when something radically bad happens. Follow the money, I was taught years ago. Who benefits?????
#20
WHAT? A new law that bans assault weapons without a background check, bans the sale of assault weapons on the internet, and provisions to keep guns out of the hands of THE MENTALLY ILL WHO HAVE MADE VIOLENT THREATS!?! You mean none of those things were against the law before? Are you kidding me?!! You mean its perfectly legal for a mentally ill person to obtain AN ASSAULT WEAPON if he hasn't threatened anyone with violence?!! REALLY?!!
When I was a kid, they wouldn't let a mentally ill patient play with a book of matches; even, if he hasn't threatened to burn down anything. We called it COMMON SENSE!!! Common sense is in scarce supply today.
And some of you complain about this! Are you mentally ill? Seriously! ARE YOU MENTALLY ILL?!!
Mentally ill people anonymously buying assault weapons on the internet without a background check? A Constitutional Right? Some of you think thats just fine. Exactly what Thomas Jefferson and George Washington envisioned in their Republic Utopia?
I submit to you that fear and paranoia of Government Tyranny has caused a lot of you to think irrationally. I suggest you all calm down, take a deep breath and think about what you are talking about. If the Government wants to come for you, all the assault weapons in the world aren't going to save you; in fact, using this means to defend yourself will assure your demise. Look at what stock piling weapons did to David Koresh. As far as false Messiah's go, if he had simply chosen not to live by the sword, he might still be here. Instead he died with his armory.
When the Constitution was written people had to load one round of ammunition at a time as well as mix and load the gun powder. Human targets had a fair chance to get away before being shot. There was also ample opportunity to tackle any assailant. Let's not forget history. In order to do public damage with the "arms" that existed back then a group of people had to take turns shooting and reloading. Can't we use a little common sense to resolve what seems to be a much larger problem than I had previously known?
Thanks for the education Thom!
#21
Quote papachuck111: "The United States and any US President are the biggest gun/weapons dealers on the planet. Until this culture of fear and violence can come to grips with the fear and war mongering government and military/industrial complex, the NRA and all the weapons manufacturers they lobby for, NOTHING will stop the senseless murders and carnage."
"WE" murder innocent people in foreign countries constantly behind the facade of freedom and righteousness! The horrendous Iraq invasion and occupation that killed countless civilians based on lies and deception is sinking down the memory hole while war criminal leaders like Bush and Cheney walk free with priviledge and wealth. The sickness and carnage we infect and subject the rest of the world with is blowing back on us with a vengeance. "
Right on, papachuck111...I totally agree!!!
#22
So, when will the government ban 12 gauge shotguns? That's the gun that a student in Taft, California, just 5 days ago, used to shoot classmates...until a teacher managed to convince him to stop.
I imagine some anti-gun people will one day succeed in taking away all guns. Right now, the laws they are enacting..will do nothing to curb school shootings. What? Reducing the size of the clips down to 7 bullets? All they have to do is get more clips...it doesn't take any time at all to change clips. That guy in Taft had no clips...but did have 20 rounds in his pockets. He could have done a lot more damage had the teacher not been successful at convincing him to give up his gun. And if no one had any guns...they'd use knives...or worse gasoline/fertilizer bombs like at OKC Fed building.
You'll never stop these killings until you begin to address the root of the problem. The root of the problem is not guns. The root of the problem is what makes people kill other people....is it the psycho-tropic prescription drugs they have been taking? (ever notice the zombie-like wide open stares in the pictures of every one of these people..seems to be a signature of the people who have done these mass shootings.) The way our society treats people in general? The lack of overall respect for each other especially the inequalities and socio-economic stresses? The "good example" that our government and military sets for all young impressionable people in sanctifying mass murder? .
#23
Can you clarify your point, Old Blue? My excellent point was about the civil liberties lost after 911 and Bush/Cheney.
#24
Good point Palindromedary! I couldn't agree more. We are missing the mark. We have to deal with the root cause. We have to reinstate our psychological institutions and administer this medicine under strict supervision.
Are you aware that in the time of Christ Mental illness was considered Demon possession. I have considered this notion considerably and have come to the conclusion that in many cases Demon possession may in fact be responsible for these crimes. One can argue that Mental illness has certain organic and chemically measurable characteristics. However, it is very possible that Demon possession also causes organic and chemical imbalances as well.
This would explain why Ronald Wilson Reagan (666) first act was to de fund the Mental Institution System. Basically he set his people free! Maybe it's not just the drugs that account for the Zombie stares in these people. Just a suggestion. Food for thought if you will!
Obvious solution. Refund our old Mental Institution System. Either way--nuff said!
#25
Ever notice that you hardly ever hear very much about why someone has done these things? The emphasis is always on the guns...the assault rifles...the large clips...but you never hear about what were the probable reasons behind why these people did what they did. Were they bullied in school? Did they think they were unfairly treated by the teachers? Were they taking psycho-tropic meds? Did they go off their meds? You hardly ever get the reasons behind these people's actions. Now why is that? Maybe Jack Nicholson had the answer in "A Few Good Men"..."you can't handle the truth!"
If we concentrated more on the "why" people do what they do rather than on the sensationalist evil iconography of guns..we might eventually stem all of these shootings. But the problem is that people don't really want to deal with the root causes. To analyze them. To modify our own behaviors that have become systemic in lock step with the "I've got mine so screw you" mentality. Just keep shopping!
That leads to emanating an aura of hatred and dog-eat-dog distrust and lots of stress. It's stress and mental anguish that has led to the 349 deaths last year of those veterans who committed suicide. They had pain (mental or physical) they couldn't stand any longer and just wanted it to stop.
Our actions as a country, in letting the politicians and the military might, run roughshod over us...over our self image of ourselves, drawing us into and abetting, as partners in crime, and as prisoners of the ruling elite have turned us all into monsters that refuse to look at the truth.
The easy path is to blame these things on inanimate objects...like guns. The politicians, now, are doing what they always do, those iniquitous little pathetic bugs that they are...playing mind games with us. Some feel like they are in the hot seat and they have to come up with something that will quiet the restless natives. Others are using is as a way to win hearts and minds of the gullible. They'll do as they've always done...make ridiculous laws that are ineffective and won't solve a thing....just complicate matters and take away more of our freedoms and liberties.
#26
DAnneMarc: Well, I am, personally, not into believing in demons. I'm atheist. And I no more believe in the story that Jesus cast out demons from swine any more than I believe that Jesus even existed to begin with...or any more than I believed the demons that possessed Linda Blair in the Exorcist were real...good movie by the way! I like watching good scary movies including demons and possession but that's all they are to me...just-pretend entertainment. But, I don't mind that other people have over-active imaginations...there wouldn't be any good movies, otherwise. We would want to revive the inquisitional auto da fe that was so dear to Torquemada and go around destroying demons by burning people to the stake again. But I think that is the same kind of mentality that many anit-gun people exhibit...kill the demons!..the evil AK-47 demons!...which only our military "heroes" can use to kill lots of people...sanctioned by the US government. Let the Torquemada gang (the world's largest gang by the way) have all the guns to keep us all under their submission.
Yes, I agree with you on refunding the mental institutions. There are scads of mentally ill people wandering the streets...begging on street corners. One crazy man I saw was standing in the middle of traffic near a busy intersection during rush hour. He had planted himself right in front of a car trying to go someplace. He was shaking his fists at the guy in the car...violently shaking his head back and forth and cursing at the man in the car. He had matted dreadlocks and mucus saturated beard that glistened in the sun light. He finally started to walk my way and I hurriedly rolled up my window. He just glared at me and gave me a "crazy face" stare...shaking his head. He finally walked over across the intersection..the light changed and I was outta there! He was scary but I felt sorry for him and hoped that he didn't get hit by a car or get shot by the police.
#27
Hitler formed the Brownshirts as a group to go around terrorizing citizens who disagreed with Hitler's increasingly insane policies. Then he realized that as a group of people who were trained to beat up or kill everyone who disagreed with them, the Brownshirts were potentially dangerous to Hitler. She he formed another, similarly-trained group (I forget their name), and set the two groups against each other so they would be so distracted by their hatred for each other that they would not even think about going against Hitler, and he could proceed with his mentally unbalanced agenda. In other words, Hitler was a skilled politician.
Now let's fast forward to today. Horrified by the recent shootings, many Americans are arming themselves. And many millions of other Americans, equally horrified by the recent shootings, are insisting on gun control.
I think this whole thing about gun control may be partly just a distraction, because we have two sides who are so polarized that they will never agree on whether we need more guns or fewer guns. I mean no disrespect to the families of the people who have been murdered, those deaths are awful.
But the fact remains: the gun control issue is a problem that can't be solved in America at this time. No matter how skillfully Thom argues, and no matter how hysterically the right wingers scream, neither of them is going to convince the other. And yet the media keeps pushing the issue, it's all over the liberal and conservative newspapers, radio news shows, newspapers, and magazines. Gun control, gun control, gun control. Of course part of their reason for pushing the issue is purely financial: the battle about gun control sells air time and sells publications, and so, with their usual total lack of ethics, the media profits from the argument and if they have anything to say about it, the fight will go on forever.
But could there be another reason why the media is pushing this problem? For the answer to that question, we need to ask: who owns the media? Ok, so now we know who is profiting or plans to profit from America's polarization about gun control. Next question: how exactly do they plan to benefit from it? Yes, increased gun sales for the armament industry, which is extremely powerful. But I still think there's something else, some additional reason the owners of the media are promoting this fight.
I wonder what it would do to the balance of power in the world, if America split up into two countries or was engulfed in another civil war. And I wonder who would profit both financially and in terms of gathering political power, from that happening.
#28
Violent threats like, "1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms," really crack me up. First of all as any true history enthusiast already knows, it was in fact the year 1775 when events such as Lexington and Concord, Breed's Hill, the invasion of Canada, and Ethan Allen's seizure of Fort Ticonderoga actually took place.....the real commencement of the Rev War.
Secondly I'm all for the New York Gun Law, but I think violent threats like the one above, by the mentally ill, will continue to increase and become common place after President Obama gets his gun control laws pushed through. Some of these borderline personalities are likely to act on their threats. I also think encouragement from right wing talk show lunatics is bound to exasperate the situation.
My opinion is not one of anti-gun ownership, I grew up with guns, hunted deer with a 410 at the age of ten on our family farm. While I never got hooked on guns, I will confess to ownership of a Rev War Period Musket, and a small cannon I fire every July 4th. I guess I got hooked on the history part of it all.
#29
Think about the athletes who dope to get ahead, the ban on doping is designed to keep athletes from having to compete in more and more dangerous ways to stay on top. Having a society that feels comfort in gun ownership will limit out and the comfort level when every one owns a certain measure of a gun will amount to a new need, such as...? At the same time statistically, guns will lead to more shootings. I don't want to fight to keep up with the Joneses, nor do I want people and their quick tempers playing with guns. It's an illness of a society to believe it is need to be strong. Strength starts will taking care of every individual.
I'm all for limits on reducing gun addiction, gun comfort, what ever you want to call it. It's not protection really, statistically you will more likely be shot if you have a gun.
How to do it? What measure is enough? What measure is not enough? I'm not entirely sure. I'd like a society that doesn't feel insecure or answers its needs with force and violence. To get there we need a conversation and this will start by reducing the quantity and the fire power of guns in the population.
As an almost victim of gun violence from being in a robbery as an infant where a gun was fired in the ceiling of a grocery store, to almost shooting myself as a child playing with a loaded 22-long pistol, to almost shooting a sibling in a violent fight, I'm sure not a fan of guns especially in the home, I know the risks.
Reduction in clip capacity is a start, but I don't really think a ban on a guns that mimics the look a military riffle will change many aspects of gun violence. Semi-automatic fire is available in hunting riffles and hand guns, they will be used instead.
I believe Canada's gun control model is pretty successful, perhaps we should aim there, pardon the pun. The idea of mandatory gun safe ownership and use, and trigger locks while a gun is in transport makes a lot of sense. The odds of someone using a gun for mass shooting is rare, and the odds of a civilian being able to stop a nutcase with a gun is rare as well. Leave it to the police, and fund police especially for community policing and fund mental health care. Lastly get rid of poverty, period.
Lorne
#30
Genevieve: I took your point to mean that our civil liberties under Bush/Cheney were so eroded that people started feeling edgy about giving up their guns, "just in case". I responded that it was a good point, and added that it's even more true under Obama, who's doubled down on the "homeland security" theme and is now making big noises about "gun control", which can be read "population control" in the right context.
I can point to the fact that Obama, before being elected to his first term, campaigned vigorously against our loss of civil liberties (e.g. the suspension of habeas corpus) under the Patriot Act, then signed the act back into force without hesitation. Nothing has been done to curb warantless wire tapping. Gitmo lingers on. Most recently, Obama has proclaimed himself supreme authority, suspending due process, to "off" anyone anywhere on the planet, anytime, period! All it takes is his individual proclamation that this person, U.S. citizen or not, poses a threat to national security. I don't think Dick Cheney in his wildest fantasy would have had the brass to make a grab like that.
I'm starting to see parallels between 1939 Germany and today's good old patriotic USA.
#31
All gun-regulation MUST be "National" by nature; as states cannot prevent guns from entering from those with more lax laws. Chicago is innundated with guns from Indiana. Washington D.C. guns usually originate in Virginia, North Carolina, etc.
#32
Wow Palindromedary! You sound just like a best friend of mine. So much so I have to wonder if you and he are the same person. LOL As far as I know he is not a member of this forum. However, I do wish I could introduce you both. He too is an atheist, agnostic or something of that nature. LOL He studied to be a Director of movies. I helped him. I think you would both hit it off.
Nevertheless, regardless of your beliefs, I'm convinced that the Demon factor is worthy of investigation. I respect your beliefs; but, in return, I expect you to respect my concerns. If you don't have empirical evidence that my theory is wrong I insist you consider it. It is the very least I can reasonably expect form an intelligent being.
Thanks for your reply!
#33
Reasonable, stable people who have been raised around guns feel no irrational fear of guns. More people are beaten and bludgeoned to death in this country every year than are killed in gun violence, school massacres notwithstanding. The cordless drill on my workbench is a lethal weapon in the hands of a maniac, but I don't lie in bed at night in a cold sweat over it. Cars are by far the most lethal instrument in the hands of drunken, cell phone texting, testosterone riddled, road raging individuals by many, many times over. Yet nobody is calling for tighter regulation on cars. This whole emphasis on guns as the problem is ludicrous, as Palindromedary so aptly expressed in Post #26. Let's get past this and start working on root causes, starting with how we've become so dehumanized as a society.
#34
Quote DAnneMarc: "I respect your beliefs; but, in return, I expect you to respect my concerns. If you don't have empirical evidence that my theory is wrong I insist you consider it. It is the very least I can reasonably expect form an intelligent being."
And vice versa. The kindest thing we can do for one another is to agree to disagree. And, of course, no one has empirical evidence that these things don't exist nor do they have empirical evidence that they do exist. And the burden of proof that something exists is on the one that claims it exists. If I claimed that The Flying Spaghetti Monster exists...then the burden of proof would have to be on me if I expected anyone else to believe it too....otherwise,the claim would be sheer nonsense.
And "intelligent beings" are normally the ones who dispense with superstitious ideas. Ghosts, goblins, devils, demons, witches, leprechauns, angels, gods just to name a few are all superstition. No basis in fact.
#35
My sister shot herself in the head on christmas eve thirty three years ago. I donated to sarah and jim brady for gun control ever since. Does it surprise us that getting diagnosed for bipolar or schizophrenia is difficult? Psychiatrists have no incentive in fact policy to contrary keeps society unprotected.
#36
It is just a continuation of the erossion of our civil rights and civil liberties that began after 9/11 and won't stop till we are a total fascist police state.
#37
Late to the party but-
A response I posted in the Washington Post to an article about Gov. Cuomo's newly passed gun law may be of interest.
Reasonable people should be able to own guns but I don't want to be getting into a gunfight every time I leave my house.
I'm more concerned about low self esteem and irrational fear when it comes to guns and the threat they present.
When we get beyond the warlikeness of our society, we'll all be safer
War is not the answer
Thanks Thom for the good work you do
#38
In retrospect Palindromedary, I must agree you are right. The burden does fall on me to provide support for my theory. Unfortunately, as you suspect, I have none. My idea is based on the fact that proving mental illness is caused purely by organic causes and nothing else is also impossible. The mind is a complicated thing that we know very little about. The concept of the Soul is far more elusive.
I base my theory on knowledge of the Bible and Nostradamus prophecies, the historical fact of the infamous Reagan Presidency which perfectly fulfills many of these ancient predictions, his prioritized Executive actions once in office that make no sense for any other reason, as well as the evil consequences of those actions not only for the immediate victims; but for our Nation as well. I assure you my faith is based on reality and not superstition; although, I can see clearly how you might misperceive me. I agree that we may never know whether this theory holds any water, I merely press it because it neatly fits the facts we do know and explains clearly what is going on as well as what we may be up against.
Whatever the case at least we both agree on the solution to the problem--REINSTATE PUBLIC FUNDING OF MENTAL INSTITUTIONS.
I respect your atheistic point of view. I spent 10 years in a Catholic school. Before I went there I was a devout believer as a child. After 10 years I became a confirmed Atheist myself. I demanded to be put in public schools. Never regretted the decision. I put my focus on academia for the rest of my school tenure. I attended College in San Francisco and saved money by commuting there by motorcycle.
After graduating in 1987 I started trying to get my career going. At this time I began what can only be described as a Magical Mystery Tour. My girlfriend, family and other friends experienced it with me. It involved a chain of coincidences that would overlap, interconnect and wouldn't stop. Everything I did to avoid them only lead me to more. I began to realize that my life was being manipulated. Eventually, I came to the conclusion that a powerful, intelligent, creative, and benevolent force must be behind what was going on. It was scary and exciting at the same time.
The whole experience lasted till October 17, 1989. The third game of the Bay Bridge World Series and the Loma Prieta earthquake that I'm sure you are familiar with was the finale of that year and a half long experience. After that it abruptly ended. I haven't experienced any such events since. By the way, if you have ever suspected that the World Series of 1989 was something of a peculiar series of coincidences, you are right. The Biblical implications of that event are off the chart. Believe it or not, ancient prophecies throughout the Bible were fulfilled that day--all at once. Most Theologians haven't processed them all yet. LOL I wrote a poem about that day called "Candlestick". I'd be happy to share it if anyone is interested.
That's a topic for a completely different discussion. Suffice it to say, I love baseball and am a huge A's fan. That particular year was a dream year for a baseball fan like myself in the bay area. However, I was so distracted that year by my personal experience of coincidences that I didn't watch a single game of baseball. No, not even the World Series.
It's hard to convey the impact that experience had on my life or what it actually was. Suffice it to say, it fully restored my Faith with a vengeance. My faith is a personal one and not affiliated with the Church. The Church drove my faith out of me as a child and I refuse to take part in it as an adult. I don't need it. No one does. In my opinion if you have to go somewhere outside your house to find God you're looking for something else. Besides, the idea of hanging an image of the Son Of God on a cross over an alter creeps me out! Always did!
I apologize to you and everyone else who reads my comments when I refer to scripture. I don't do it lightly or as a result of superstition; although I am aware how it can be perceived and accept that. My only intent is to help shed light and share my perspective with everyone. I assure you I do not intend to covert anyone. I don't have anything to convert you to anyway. You can do or not do that on your own. Personally, I'd prefer an honest atheist to a devout hypocrite any day.
To me personal Faith is a private issue. I do try to keep mine as private as I can, but sometimes I need to cite sources to give sage advice. What you do with it is your business. That's between you and God. Please forgive me and take it for what it is worth to you. I hope I didn't offend! Thank You!~DAnneMarc
#39
By the way, speaking about The Bible, Loma Prieta and the third game of the Bay Bridge World Series in San Francisco's Candlestick park here's a little message from that fictious character, Jesus. He referred to candle light frequently as a metaphor for the word of God.
Matthew 5:
13 ¶Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Coincidence? Maybe. But there's more where that came from. LOL Food for thought. Bon Apetite!
#40
Response to #35 By the way, Palindromedary,
as far as "The Flying Spaghetti Monster" goes...
It actually did exist. I created it with some Killer Tomato Sauce. Unfortunately, I had it for dinner last night with Garlic Bread and a Garden Salad. It was delicious! MM! MM!
I wish I could share the evidence but I just flushed that away. Whoops! Oh well! What are you gonna do?
You'll just have to take my word for it.
Talk to ya later, Buddy!
#41
Yes that Flying Spaghetti Monster and the Raptor Jesus are quite a pair. As a devout believer, I have my Ramen noodle soup every Friday...and often in between. In fact, I celebrated the Winter Solstice (Christmas to others) with a nice warm bowl of Ramen. And other noodles are just dandy as well. I know that many other people are going to go to meat loaf hell because they are non-believers. I pity them, of course.
Actually, I was born an atheist (was just kidding about TFSM and RJ), even though my parents...especially my mom (not necessarily my dad..although he had to keep up a rudimentary semblance of being religious...I really don't think he was)..tried to indoctrinate me in some other "pagan" faith...Methodist...then I've met my share of Baptists and Catholics along the way as friends, co-workers, and relatives..many of whom tried to save me..believing that everyone else, but themselves, would go to hell.
Yes, I know that we all have our own experiences that determine what we believe...and not everyone will believe the same way
By the way, I just went to the movies and saw some previews of an upcoming movie that looks really interesting. Called "Mama", del Toro's latest movie is a scary one..like demon possession.
"He cautions it is unlike anything you have seen from him prior." "Mama has an incredibility strong base of reality, and emotional reality," del Toro said.
http://www.moviefanatic.com/2013/01/mama-guillermo-del-toro-talks-terrif...
By the way, I used to live in the Bay Area back in 1989 during that earthquake and I experienced it. Talk about coincidence..I had cut my overseas trip short, unexpectedly, and when I got to SFO I went through customs and as I was extremely tired, I accidentally ran my cart carrying my luggage into the large door upon exiting and knocked it off it's rollers. I thought they were going to call me back and give me problems but I was lucky and went on my way. I was awakened in the middle of the day as I was trying to get some sleep from the long trip. I just thought it was so odd how I was able to get back just in time to experience it. Just lucky, I guess!
Nostradamus, the Bible...all of those sources tend to be very vague (but obviously some people don't think so). Quoting from them doesn't prove anything to me..just because they use a familiar word here and there doesn't mean anything to me. It's like going to a scary movie...it's entertainment..and that's all..and that's how I see it.
I recognize that others read all kinds of meanings into things said or written. What ever turns them on...good for them. Ramen noodles turn me on...but then next week I might shift to something else and not feel like I've committed a sin.
Of course, if I were like many people who see demons, I might look into my bowl of noodles and see a picture, or a word, that I could conjure up in my mind that it has some esoteric meaning. Most other people, upon hearing of my revelation might get a little chuckle. Anyway, got to go...it's Ramen noodle time!
#42
I would like to post a comment that responds to a caller, of last month's post Newtown, CT shooting. This commentary borders on environmental issues: a caller was inquiring about the validity of owning guns, and stated that guns are OK for dealing with vermin (I do not have exact quote). My thoughts are: gun ownership is ubiquitous, and behind the motivations of some gun owners is an incredible urge to use them to kill, that wildlife is again becoming a target. I speak of the wolves that are being targeted in states such as Wisconsin, Michigan, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana; these wolves are enduring horrific ordeals. Can people such as this caller rethink the concept of "vermin" -- maybe target invasive species (not our natural heritage), species that probably don't have the excitement of going after intelligent animals such as wolves, because they (invasives) are typically fungus or microbes being brought over from foreign lands. Or go after mice and rats, or skeets, whatever. I speak of a lot of topics here, but the fundamental message is -- there is a war on wildlife, predominantly wolves. What can a citizen do to preserve our country's natural heritage?
#43
New York’s passage of tough gun control laws sets the stage for the national debate. According to the New York Times, President Obama will push for comprehensive gun control – and even endorse 19 specific executive actions information on condos in Aventura
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Why are ALL the progressive talkers on this subject only?
Isn't anything else happening in the world?
Are there no lother priorities?
I am beginning to wonder if we progressives are going to smother under this avalanche.
Just wondering....