Do you want the CIA & NSA to have unlimited access to your financial records?? Well.. Obama does.
The Obama Administration wants to hand over access to your financial records to the CIA, NSA, and other law enforcement agencies. According to a new report from Reuters, a Treasury Department plan gives spy agencies full access to more raw financial data then ever before, under the guise of national security. Already, financial institutions are required to report “suspicious customer activity” to the Treasury's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, but spy agencies must make case-by-case requests to access the FinCEN database.
Under the new plan, agencies would have unlimited access to the financial records of millions of Americans. A Treasury spokesperson said that U.S. Law already allows FinCEN to share information with agencies, and that there are privacy safeguards in place under the Bank Secrecy Act. But Michael German of the ACLU calls the proposal “a black hole” - saying, “Time and again, we have evidence, unfortunately well after the fact, that somebody's civil rights have been violated; that the intelligence community simply ignores the rules.”
Allowing more government surveillance is a bad idea. Over the past decade, we've seen Presidents and spy agencies chip away at our civil rights, all in the name of national security, and this plan is simply another attack on our privacy. As Benjamin Franklin said, “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” . We must stand up for the precious civil liberties guaranteed to us in the Constitution, or we'll soon find they no longer exist.
? is if 9/11 had never occurred would we be having this conversation? so much for land of the free home of the brave. looks more and more to me like land of the lunitic fringe and home of cowards. by the way? what the hell! they can dig in on us but when i go file a police report for having my identity stolen, even with the pile of evidence i still have the cops wouldn't lift a finger? What a scrwed up state of society. no wonder other countries are laughing at us more and more and more and...man i need to go watch some pee wee herman!
Obama has shown that he has no regard for civil liberties. He believes he can indefinitely detain people he judges to be a threat to the system and use drones to kill without a trial and to spy without a warrant. Now he wants to make it possible for government agencies to have access to ordinary Americans' financial records.
"We must stand up for the precious civil liberties guaranteed to us in the Constitution, or we'll soon find they no longer exist." Well, surprise, they no longer exist. Now you've got to fight to get them back. The bedrock of the Bill of Rights is the Fifth Amendment, especially the due process clause. Without due process the Bill of Rights is a house of cards. The Fourth and Sixth Amendments are a great example of this. Obama and his administration have destroyed due process with their drone murders. He's proving to be even less of a civil libertarian than his predecessor. And now we've been shackled with a two-tiered justice system that guarantees the money class will spend no time incarcerated for any of their crimes. We are an autocracy, an oligarchy, a totalitarian regime, a plutacracy...call it what you will. What we are not, are free citizens in a democracy.
You're right, I think it is done, they have taken all our rights and it will be fight to get them back. Voting is joke too, it now shows that our vote doesn't mean a thing.
This is something new? I thought we had to involuntarily turn over all our financial information to the Government every April 15 th anyway? What more could they possibly want to know? How much change is in our pockets? They already have the power to audit anyone and compel any person or entity to reveal their public or private accounts and ledgers with a warrant. If they can't do their job with the data they already have, what do they hope to accomplish with this nonsense?
When I once asked the DHS to investigate some nefarious activity at my bank that I had good cause to suspect may have had terrorists activities associated with it they told me to go soak my head. They said flat out they weren't interested in any case that wasn't part of a Federal organization or didn't involve Federal employees. They suggested I call my local police. If you ask me, these high paid bumbling nincompoops just want one more resource to rummage to look busy while they're surfing the net for porn in their cubicle. They're all idiots! I want my money back! Fire all these bums and disband all these money wasting agencys! We're safer on our own.
Just who in hell is going to pay for all of this additional government surveillance? I thought we were broke. Maybe Kend can help me with this one.
I've got an idea, let's fund the cloaking of the 4th Amendment by cutting Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. But let's stamp out some hypocrisy while we're at it. We could do this by cutting programs only for those who have high anxiety about all that, "it's a government takeover stuff."
Better privatize that surveillance though. Heck, I'll do it for twice as much as the government workers. We don't want socialists spying on us now do we Glenn?
DAnneMarc: Thanks, I now know what a Palindromedary is! By the way, it must be pretty depressing looking at the financial records of 99% of the population. Think of the poor bastard spy that gets stuck with that job. Boy did he screw up somewhere!
There's a lot of waste out there. A lot of stupid jobs that produce nothing except a pay check. All the real jobs are gone. I feel really sorry for people who get paid to telemarket or hold signs on the side of the road. Lets face it, the CIA, FBI, DEA, and DHS are all huge wastes of money. They employ nitwits who like to think they are "Secret Agents" like James Bond; but, are really overpaid snitches and snoops. If they worked for any private organization their work would be considered illegal. I wonder what the collective budget of these agency's are? Oh, wait! Don't tell me! I just ate!
How low can we go? When the few solvent labor unions left in the country are those for Prison Guards and Federal Spy's. If you belong to a union that delivers mail, drives trucks, or controls air traffic you are considered a non-essential nuisance; but, if you guard prisoners or spy on citizens you are a vital resource. That says a lot about how twisted and perverted our priorities are in this sick nation. I wonder how lower our priorities can drop before the bottom falls out?
Totally agree, if they want you, they get you. How about the gps on your computer and cell phone, I understand that you possibly can't even turn those "off", you have to pull the battery. Your IPS, everything is out there to be "taken" for either advertising or a "tag".
As he mentioned above, try to "hide" anything personal that you don't want known to ANYONE and you could go to jail for non disclosure. Try to get "facts" straight and it's "National Security". Give an inch they'll take a mile and the mile is nearly up.
Now we'll have "Drone" security, that air space above your home? Yours? Not even your home, stop paying the taxes that never keep being "paid up" and you'll lose that too.
playarocadave ~ Agreed! However, I don't know if I feel the same way about property tax.
I get quite a bang for my buck where I live. The tax covers essential services that I could never afford on my own. My bill includes maintenance of our sewer, street, retaining wall, aqueduct, street drain and all fences and trees surrounding them. The trees are huge and it would cost me a fortune to maintain them year round. I love the trees! The tax also pays for police, fire and animal control services. All very essential services in my area. Most important of all it helps supplement the school system, preventing both juvenile delinquency and uneducated teens hanging out in front of my house during the day.
I agree it sucks that property tax is a mandatory tax; but, quite frankly, I'd much rather pay it than give up--or pay out of my own pocket--for all the above.
2950-10K Wrote ~ "DAnneMarc: Thanks, I now know what a Palindromedary is!"
Now that we all know what a Palindromedary is, does anyone know where Palindromedary is? He's been MIA for some time now! I hope he's alright.
Quite odd. Government intrusions on citizen's privacy is just the sort of topic he loves to nibble on. Shame he's missing out! I hope someone put a plug on the drain of his tub.
Shame I can't save him a plate of this tasty topic to go with some catnip. Oh well! More for me.
I'm kind of interested in Thom's love/hate relationship with Obama. This time, Barry is a villain. Other times according to Thom, Obama is on "our side". Anyone ever wonder what these little nuggets Thom throws out really mean? They certainly stir up a lot of visceral reaction! I'm wondering if this blog is part of some kind of petri dish to help focus his upcoming topics. Or steer the tone and thrust of his editorial stance. He's mysteriously absent from all of our dialog, confrontations and machinations. I propose that we, collectively, demand at least a token comment from Mr H from time to time! What say you, peasants?
ABSOLUTELY NOT! This is one of the worst ideas for government agencies, to gather worthless data that can not be analysed in sufficient detail on a timescale that would be worth anything. It would (or should) be struck dow as unconstitutional if it is law passed by Congress and, in my opinion, violates the basic righhts to privacy. If the president issues such a directive without it being coinfirmed by law it should result in immediate impeachment!
After reading the comments this evening I find it ironic that just a few days ago when I commented that Mr. Obama cannot be trusted to keep his word to us and that he is part of the system that will use Sequestration as a tool to implement Austerity, all I got back were comments from CLM and others about how negative I was and was ranting on and people like DAnneMarc stated that he preferred to only look at the positive aspects of our society and basically I was verbally trashed for stating the obvious about the present Administration working against the best interest of the American people and it was time for a change. Now today Hartmann and his well respected friend Pat were stating that Obama cannot be trusted and he is in it for his own personal legacy, which is what I have been writing for months and everyone is right on with their comments. The only word that comes to mind at this point without commenting any further is "hypocrites", after reading the negativity about what DAM has commented today. But like I said before, I could care less what anyone says on this blog and my only concern is stating what I think. As far as privacy, HELL the credit reporting agencies along with your credit card ratings from all creditors can be bought for about $25 by anyone wanting to check your past and present credit history. If you lease a home they require to know how much your earn, how well you pay your debts and where you have lived for the last 20 years and you guys get upset over Obama stating it is okay for security reasons to check up on you! Hey, DAnneMarc, where have you been for the last 40 years if you think this is new? Oh that’s right you’re just a kid! As far as the cost goes I am sure the credit reporting agencies like TRW and several others will work with the government for pennies on the dollars for giving up your credit info and where you have lived! Also, people like Nachos mentioned I did not have the balls to answer his question on why we were in Vietnam, well Nachos I did reply the next day if you’re still around to read it, but like I stated before, most people try to talk the talk, but do not have the brass to walk the walk. Just a favorite comment from Full Metal Jacket, a movie that had a pretty good handle on what happened over there in the Tet Offensive where we decimated the Viet Cong. This has nothing to do with today’s blog, just wanted to clear the air on the bad mouthing I got a few days ago. K.W.
Oh Well! Can't keep my eyes open any more. Tomorrow I have to go through my couches and chairs and make sure there's no "loose change" I didn't report to the IRS that the Inspector Gadgets of the ever expanding Federal Bureaucracy might find before I do.
Look on the bright side everyone--at least we finally got a cool Pope. Pope Francis! I really like this guy--so far. I'm also a huge fan of Saint Francis of Assisi. That was another one of the few genuine Saints that I admire and respect with all my heart. It appears, so does the new Pope! What a difference! I say that his appointment is a very benevolent omen indeed. He has my full blessing!
As far as today's topic is concerned, all this paranoia is making me very sleepy. Good Night everyone! Dream hopeful dreams! Remember, tomorrow will dawn a better day! (Couldn't be much worse!)
Outback - If you read Hartmann's info page, he states that he does not have time to respond to the e-mails he gets and I have to believe it is the same with this blog. Also, it says on his daily blog that it is submitted by Louise Hartmann. Does this mean she writes it? As far as using the responses on his blog to think up what he will write or Louise will write, I made a lengthy comment a few months ago and his blog the next day sounded like the comments I had made Perhaps it was just a coincidence and he was going to write on the same idea. K.W.
Ken Ware ~ Where have you been all night. You wait for me to start yawning to chime in. Fine!
I really don't know why you insist on trashing poor me. Especially here. If you reread what I said about this topic you will find that I said basically the same thing you just said. We do agree more often then you think!
Outback ~ I like the cut of your jib. If anyone missed Outback's comments here is the juiciest part:
"Anyone ever wonder what these little nuggets Thom throws out really mean? They certainly stir up a lot of visceral reaction! I'm wondering if this blog is part of some kind of petri dish to help focus his upcoming topics. Or steer the tone and thrust of his editorial stance. He's mysteriously absent from all of our dialog, confrontations and machinations. I propose that we, collectively, demand at least a token comment from Mr H from time to time! What say you, peasants? "
Outback I must admit that the same thought has occurred to me several times. Sometimes I feel like I'm on a seesaw. One day President Obama is a hero, the next he's evil incarnate. I wish Thom would make up his mind--I'm getting sea sick!
Well Ken, If nobody is paying attention then it's reasonable to ask why we bother (other than to entertain ourselves). Consider the format though; three or four times a week "someone" posits a position under the Thom Hartmann banner. We all jump on board and spill our guts. Often this results in some pretty heavy interplay between the participants. This happens in a near vacuum, as far as I can tell, with regard to the Hartmann camp.
My question is this: If Mr. Hartmann (or his designee) is not willing to engage us in the topic of the day, then why are we wasting our time? I mean, Thom takes calls on his program, right? If he is seriously interested in feedback from us denizens of the blogosphere, then he should sure as hell show up occasionally to directly engage in some level of dialog. Otherwise it just feels, at least to me, like I'm simply being bated.
Outback Wrote: "I propose that we, collectively, demand at least a token comment from Mr H from time to time! What say you, peasants? "
That reminds me of another notion I've tossed around Outback, namely, this "peasant" wonders if Mr. H doesn't already toss in a token comment from time to time. We don't know the true identity of any of us; except of course ourselves. Who is to say Thom isn't here right now masquerading as say Ken Ware, Palindromedary, Outback, or anyone else. Ever consider that possibility? He might even be DAnneMarc! Booo!
What say you, peasants?
You're scaring the shit out of me, D'AnneMarc ... : I'm paranoid enough as it is ;-)
Paranoia is such a fun party game. It goes really great with procrastination. You don't get anything done; and yet, feel like you're doing something all at the same time!
Seriously folks! Worrying about the government spying on how much money you have isn't going to help you out of the situation of having no money to spy on. I hate to sound repetitive but please allow me to repeat myself. We need to focus on Campaign Finance Reform before we tackle anything else. Anything else is a waste of time, resources, and energy. Let the Plutocrats do whatever they want and worry about fixing it when we regain control of the Government.
It's that simple! Do you agree with that Ken Ware?
D'AnneMarc - Ken's either already gone to bed or he's midway through a genuine tome. I still want an answer to my question. Are all of these Hartmann posts just rhetorical?
I too agree it would be nice to get some direct feedback. As far as me being Hartmann, it would really be hard for him to take on the characteristics I have. Mean vs. Good
As far as your comments about different languages the other day, my point was; the reason I mentioned the different languages, is that those were the languages of the countries who tried to defeat our nation in time of war and if they had won, those were the languages we would be speaking as a defeated country (JAPANESE AND GERMANY). As far as speaking Russian, I was referring to the language we would be speaking if they had actually won the Cold War. I guess I will have to explain what I mean in every comment; I must lack clarity in my words.
DAnnemarc - I guess I am just antagonistic by nature.
Outback ~ IMHO I'd have to say, yes. I don't think that it is intentional; but, in effect they are a mirror of the top stories that float Thom's way through the "mainstream" media that he--as a journalist--is forced to address.
Palindromeday and I kidded around once about how if you could measure the thought patterns in a mouse when it confronts a hungry cat and then project those patterns into people you would have the ultimate weapon. In a way, I believe the rhetoric from the "mainstream" media machine is attempting to do this very thing to the masses. That it, when it spreads these stories of hopelessness and loss of rights It has the effect of paralyzing people with fear. The peoples fear does for the machine what the Government does not have the resources to do on their own. Psychological warfare. Thom is only a pawn in the game.
I hope that answers your question?
I would like to add that you guys are all very entertaining. I wish you enjoyed yourselves as much as I enjoy your conversing. Do you not think we help refine each others thoughts? Please keep it coming.
Outback - If you read Hartmann's info page, he states that he does not have time to respond to the e-mails he gets and I have to believe it is the same with this blog. Also, it says on his daily blog that it is submitted by Louise Hartmann. Does this mean she writes it? As far as using the responses on his blog to think up what he will write or Louise will write, I made a lengthy comment a few months ago and his blog the next day sounded like the comments I had made. Perhaps it was just a coincidence and he was going to write on the same idea. K.W. I commented on this earlier or I misunderstood your question. Yes, time for bed for me, the flu is still hanging on! ugh! Also, I think at times we just enjoy wrestling verbally. Sometimes there are several comments and then sometime there are seventy!
Oh Jesus, my worst fear realized! Thom is just anothe pawn in the media game, where the media is just another tool of the oligarchy? D'AnneMarc, I hope you're happy in the knowledge that you've ruined my entire week!
Ken, hope you're feeling better soon. Night all....
For my perspmal take on what the press and government does and the affect, it just pisses me off and I get angry and would like to physically do something. If I said what I would like to do, I run the risk of getting arrested by our Facist government. Time to sleep....
Good Night all! It was fun!
And Chuckle8, if ever there was an incognito Hartmann avatar amongst us, from your comment, I would judge you to be it! Come forth and identify yourself!
Politicians are so past themselves on why there is ""no more to steal"" from the once middle class now lower class , they have to reassure themselves why their ""master plan isn't working""?
Maybe if they had a clue and lived outside their little deranged perfect world.
Is any body out there???DANNEMARC, KEN WARE, KEND...Just knod if you can hear me...Is there any one at home???
There are a few posts from the other day that have gone unanswered...Discussions that deserve response, and need wrapping up, if that is even possable. Nevertheless I took the time to post answers and comments to all of your replys; would it be to much to ask for a the same?
Kend, post 25 on 3/13/13 is a response to your comments.
DanneMarc, Post 21 on 3/13/13 is a response to your "2 cents".
Ken Ware, you haven't yet replyed to post 17 on 3/12/13.
And as always HALFONTS; I always look forward to and appreciate your insight and perspective.
NachoMAN ~ (Politely nodding) I'm here for a moment. I have errands to do today but thought I'd check back. Interesting topic. I read your response to my "2 cents." Thanks! Ken's lack of a response probably means he agrees too. We have to read between the lines with Ken. He's very honest in my opinion, but Vietnam can be an understandably touchy subject with him. Besides, its all water under the bridge now. We have a whole new set of "issues" to deal with today. Fortunately, the way society had degenerated has ended the generally agreed upon gross misconceptions of yester-year. That's one positive result of the current mess at least. LOL
BTW NachoMAN ~ IMHO I understand where you're coming from; but seriously, I'd drop the whole Vietnam subject with Ken if I were you. If you reread his posted answer several times like I did I believe he did very meticulously and honestly address all your inquiries to the best of his abilities and with a very calm tone. I for one found this to show great respect and self control on his part. Personally, If I were in his shoes I would have probably lost it, gone berzerk, and chewed your head off at you question. I have to say I admire Ken's demur.
Thank you for the compliment, but no way. If only, I had his breadth of knowledge.
I have listened to Thom since he replaced Al Franken (I liked Al so much, I was at first disappointed). Since he left LA, I have subscribed to his podcasts. I get to listen to every minute (except the discussions on free speech TV during radio commercials) of his broadcast.
No I can't. You are pretty much hooped. You should have fixed it last November.
Thanks God for Netflix. When I go to the Zoo, I don't talk to the Monkeys, after all, they will ALWAYS be Monkeys no mather how hard I try to convince them otherwise.
Wonder why Ed Schultz, who NO LONGER talks to CONS, saying it was a WASTE of time, is moving UP the top 10 radio talkers list.
I agree with Barney Frank, who said at a town Hall, to a Tea Bagger, that he wasn't going to have a conversation with piece of kitchen furnature. After all, a piece of wood will always be a piece of wood.