The dirty secret behind right-wing austerity.

The motivation behind the world-wide economic con of austerity has been discovered. And, the source is none other than Pete Peterson – the debt-obsessed billionaire who stands to make billions off the privatization of our social safety net. Just days ago we told you how a 28-year-old grad student debunked the Reinhart-Rogoff study used to push austerity throughout the world. Well, now we know why Republican “fuzzy math” was used in the first place. Pete Peterson's organizations bankrolled that study.

Kenneth Rogoff, one of the study's leading authors, is a member of the Advisory Board at the Peterson Institute, which published the pro-austerity study. And, Carmen Reinhart is a regular participant of Peterson Institute functions, along with the likes of Paul Ryan and Alan Simpson. While the now-debunked study's math might have been written off as a mere error by the authors, the link to Peterson indicates that ideology, rather than incompetence, is the cause.

The austerity-induced human suffering and economic destruction should have been evidence enough for democrats to stop believing in budget-cut myths. But, the link to Peterson proves that “high debt causes slow growth” theory is nothing more than right-wing manufactured hysteria. Peterson and the corporatist machine have created this problem, and the so-called solution, to perpetuate the myth that government spending – not historically low tax revenue – is the real problem. And they have even gotten democrats to believe it.

It's time for President Obama and Democratic leaders to see the writing on the wall and take a formal stand against austerity. No nation, in the history of the world, has ever cut it's way to prosperity, and no fabricated economic study can change that.


Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

R&R need to go into hiding for a while...take some long term R&R.

Well, thank goodness for UMass-Amherst grad student Thomas Herndon who discovered the error in the Reinhart-Rogoff paper and thoroughly debunked those right-wing scamsters.

Now can we all get our Social Security and other social programs BACK?!!!
"It was interesting that when other economists who were not able to replicate the results of Reinhart and Rogoff asked to see the spreadsheets that contained their analysis, their requests were turned down.** But when Herndon, who was enrolled in a course that required students to do a term paper that replicated other people’s papers, also failed in this task and asked for access, they granted it to him. Perhaps they felt that a mere graduate student was no threat to them. This whole episode illustrates the importance of transparency in academic work. You have to give other people enough information to enable them to check your work.

What I learned that was new from the Colbert segment was that the Reinhart-Rogoff paper was never subjected to peer-review. It was what is called a ‘working paper’, circulated among peers and not published in a journal. Why would such an unchecked document have such clout? Because it said what powerful people wanted to hear.

Will this revelation change anything? I don’t think so. When you have the oligarchy and its media lackeys and servants in the political and academic classes strongly pushing an agenda, they do not let facts get in the way. Reinhart and Rogoff were useful to the oligarchy in getting this train going. Now that it is barreling along, their shoddy work will be ignored and new reasons will be concocted to justify the same policies."

** This is kind of like when NIST wouldn't let people see their data for their computer modeling of the collapse of the WTC buildings. When you have something to hide the data.

But another paper that was openly published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, publishing their data, was/is being ignored by a lot of people...especially rich and powerful people that have a lot to lose if you find out the truth.

Be sure to watch Thomas Herndon being interviewed on The Colbert Report...

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

So, after reading about how this multibillionaire was spending big bucks trying to destroy Social Security and other social programs...I was shocked to read a Wikipedia piece on him:

"On August 4, 2010, it was announced that he had signed "The Giving Pledge." He was one of 40 billionaires, led by Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, who agreed to give half their wealth to charity.[13]" Yes, but did he actually do it?

"In 2011 Peterson contributed $458 million of his personal wealth to cast Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and various safety net programs that aid the poor as in a state of crisis, as well as needing dramatic cuts.[14]"

Doesn't sound like a very evil man does it? What gives?
Does this sound like a man who is trying to destroy Social Security?

Has this guy paid big bucks to some PR firm to get these things said about him? Is all of this true? But before we get all gushy over such an image of beneficence...would it not be a good idea to pin it down so we know what it is really all about? Ideas to consider:

1. The guy is really not so bad after all..I mean anyone who manages to get a creator of "Sesame Street" to marry him after several other failed marriages can't be all bad...right?
2. The guy is a cunning and manipulative capitalist swine who knows how to play people and work them so that, while he is ripping them off, he gives a little back to show he is really a swell guy after all. That's part of PR...creating the illusion you are someone whom you are not.
3. On the other hand...why not just keep all those dollars..and bequeath them to the heirs...he's got something like 5 children from previous marriages. But then, like the cut off one head and many others emerge.

That is one of the big problems with inheritance.. especially inheritance of lots of money. Your worthless, spoiled brats who have always had a life of leisure and opulence are destined to spread out and continue the exploitation of others just like the parents have done...which is usually not the hydra's problem but a problem for anyone getting in the hydra's path.

They send them to the all of the top and very expensive schools to learn how to rip people off.** But oftentimes, parents/children get alienated and the parent decides to take alternative courses to the traditional custom of leaving all their wealth to their children.

I've read that there is a very wealthy person in Australia that is going that route....with an attitude of forcing their spoiled brat children to pick themselves up by their own bootstraps.
** And this is part of the reason why R&R let their guard down and gave their spread sheet data to a grad school student from UMass Amherst. They probably figured (pun intended) that the student would not only be on their side but also that he probably wouldn't catch the errors or go public with them.

leighmf's picture
leighmf 10 years 5 weeks ago

It ought to be brought out that this is no new tactic- in the past we just didn't want to believe it.

This anyone can determine- the largest polio epidemics occurred in the United States AFTER Eli Lilly secured the patent for the Salk vaccine. This meant the CIA stirring up a lot of trouble in India and Pakistan over Eli Lilly's acquisition of thousands of Sacred Rhesus Monkeys Jonas Salk required for production of his vaccine.

It was argued that the United States should maintain control of the vaccine to protect against black markets.

Loren Bliss's picture
Loren Bliss 10 years 5 weeks ago

Sorry, Mr. Hartmann, there's not the chance of a snowball in hell either wing of The One Party of Two Names will abandon austerity. That's because the Democrats and the Republicans alike are wholly owned subsidiaries of the One Percent, hired to complete and perpetuate the pre-apocalyptic reduction of the world to only two social classes: the One Percent (who own and control everything); the 99 Percent -- all the rest of us -- who are to be reduced to slaves, cannon-fodder and probably the sort of fodder predicted by the film Soylent Green as well. Nor is there any sanctuary: the same hidden agenda motivates the ruling classes everywhere else. The only solution is global revolution -- a close approximation to Trotsky's concept of permanent revolution. But that is rendered forever impossible by the godlike technological superiority already achieved by the One Percent, a condition tantamount to conquest of Earth by the allegedly fictional Borg: "resistance is futile" -- even the resistance expressed by individual acts of existential despair. The resultant future -- the darkest of dark ages that will continue its relentless darkening until our species is extinct -- is why I am thankful I am old, more thankful still my one child did not survive beyond his mother's womb.

lakesguypaul's picture
lakesguypaul 10 years 5 weeks ago

Until we end the lobbyist and special interest groups bribing and backing our elected officals so they, the lobbyist can write the laws for there own gain, this problem will now go away. It is to the point that the American people need to have there own lobbyist group just to have half a chance to get a fair shake.And that is why we elect officials to begin with. they should be outlawed altogether and never be allowed to set foot in Washington.There should be a 250 thousand dollar cap on every senate and congress and house campaign and 1 million on the presidential campaign . there also should be only 3 months to campaign for office.That should end a lot of the bought and paid for officals as more quailified people could afford to run for office and there would not be time for these stupid smear campaigns because they would have there hands full trying to win against someone that isnt a life time politician and the playing field would be even. Probably will never happen in my lifetime, but the wealtly have taken over this country and government and it is way past time to take it back and make it fair for everyone and quit being the worlds bully for there wealth too.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 10 years 5 weeks ago

We have to get word about this out. What'll happen, I think, is that it'll be one of those buried truths that they succeed in hushing up so that nobody knows about it and everybody who hears about it dismisses it as a wild conspiracy theory.

klentz's picture
klentz 10 years 5 weeks ago

Its no great revelation - we've known the motive for years, but it is certainly a smoking gun. Hopefully it will get wider coverage than just the left-of-center media.

One of these days the preppers/survivalists/rednecks/ will wake up and realize that the government is not coming to take away your guns/rights/benefits - its big business!!!

I can't help but think of Frederick Pohl's 1950s sci-fi novel "The Space Merchants" which is about life in the world governed by corporations rather than governments. At "election" time, the corporation sends down to central casting for 200-300 wanna-bes, then auditions them to become candidates for each office (President, Senators, Reps). In this way, each corporation "owns" its own politicians. Its sadly becoming reality.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 10 years 5 weeks ago

Kend, Palindromedary,

I have replies to your posts on yesterday's blog.

Thank you.

Roland369 10 years 5 weeks ago

I wish I still had trust, respect, and confidence in either of the two parties. Once upon a time, you could assume that the Democrats and Republicans MIGHT be polar opposites of each other. The fact is that the liberal progressive wing of the Democratic Party has been eviscerated! Blue Dog Democrats, mostly from the Bible belt, have marginalized what is left of the progressive movement. Both parties appear to represent the upper 1% that contribute to their campaign coffers, and whose lobbyists ply the halls of Congress.

When the Democrats took control in 2006, I expected some change. Instead what I got was Nancy Pelosi on TV stating (without even being asked) that they would NOT impeach President Bush! This is amazing, considering the fact that congressional leaders did not hesitate spending enormous amounts of time and money investigating President Clinton for impeachment!

Thanks to gerrymandering, progressive liberals like Dennis Kucinich have been driven from congress, leaving only a few to speak out. Unfortunately there is not enough of a majority to vote against the Neo-Con (Neo-Fascist) austerity programs that are coming our way. When you look at both conventions and you see the rich CEO’s like the Koch Bros. and ALEC doing everything they can to undermine what is left of the Republic (thanks in part to the Citizens United ruling by the Supreme Court) you wonder what will be the end game.

We’ve seen the consolidation of the media into fewer hands like Rupert Murdoch, and realize that we are being driven into a corner not of our own choosing. Personally, I doubt that there is anyone left in congress that has enough guts to stop this snowball from rolling to its inevitable conclusion. Certainly an opposing majority does NOT exist! Perhaps both parties are secretly in league with each other, and are more concerned with the Continuity of Government (COG) and the preservation of their own turf, rather than anything good for the American people.

Future generations (if they survive) will look back on this century as not only a failure of resolve on the part of people with conscience, but a turning away from a Constitutional Democratic Republic, to a totalitarian police state, where all power resides in the Executive, and a government that represents the corporate ruling class.

bobthebear's picture
bobthebear 10 years 5 weeks ago


Thanks for a great add on to Thom's article. But don't be so pessimistic about doing something. We do have an advocate in the White House, let's use him. If we all send Thom's article to the President, he will know that we "the people" are aware of the situation and that we expect him to do something about it. We can do the same with our senators and congressmen. This is how to start the revolte against the oligarchy. This is where the 99% movement can finally have something to stand for. "The 99% are against the big lie-Austerity!"

akunard's picture
akunard 10 years 5 weeks ago

No country, in the history of the world, has been able to borrow 40% of what IT spends and survive!

And that also goes for a house hold, city, county and state!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 5 weeks ago

Mark Saulys ~ I've read your post yesterday about the Kennedy secret society speech. I have mixed feeling about your conclusion. In my opinion, there is no public group that can be associated with the secret society JFK was talking about. It has no name. Illuminati, Free Masons, or Skull and Bones are all Red Herrings. "The Conspiracy" or "The Beast" are probably the best descriptions I've heard. Remember he said, "Secret oaths, and secret proceedings..." Stalinists, no! Not to say Stalinists aren't a part of this conspiracy, they just aren't the conspiracy. For that matter it seems obvious to me that Liberals are also a part of this conspiracy. There is no known group that is immune from the "expansion of influence by covet means" of this conspiracy.

In my humble opinion what happens is this: Once someone gains a certain level of influence on their own they are approached by a "conspiracy" representative with an offer they cannot refuse. They are invited to take part in a secret ceremony where they swear a secret oath of obedience to an undisclosed authority that is over the person inviting them to participate. They are told to not worry about that source and say nothing publicly about the arrangement or ask any questions. The bait in this arrangement is a lifetime promise of prosperity for them and their families. Of course they have to follow orders for the rest of their lives. Surrender their rights to free speech and tow the line. Sell their soul if you will. They may even be advised that any deviation from this directive would end the agreement and their lives.

For ambitious poor people such an offer is as irresistible; as, steroids is irresistible to a young athlete. This is why you have a string of strange deaths among wealthy individuals who want no part in this nefarious arrangement--starting with JFK. With this arrangement you cannot pin the blame on any group, any individual, any ideology; and, cannot trust anyone in any position of influence as well.

Just an opinion.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 10 years 5 weeks ago

Reply to #12 yesterday.....Palindromedary: As an Independent, what I believe about the Democratic Party is actually pretty straight forward. I believe if they had 60 votes in the Senate and a House majority, then we as a country could move away from the current extreme right, a place I'll refer to as Plutobagger Fascism, and end up somewhere near the middle. I still wouldn't be happy, but the middle at least is a good starting point for real progress towards a government representative of the vast majority and promotion of the general welfare of said majority.

Don't worry about me, I've seen way to much in my almost six decades to be naive about the scoundrels that lurk in both political parties, as I said before, I'm an Independent..... It's been a long week, I'm headin out for some amped up Rock-a-billy!

Hey, It's good to see David Abbot back!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 5 weeks ago

Palindromedary ~ I just read that post the other day in response to chuckle8. You are so right. We have to exercise a lot of common sense and discretion when looking at conspiracy theories. Finding the truth is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

You are right also when you say, "Yes, I've heard many, what I would consider very crazy conspiracy theories about based particle beam weapons that "melted" the WTC buildings, small nuclear bombs in the basements of the WTC buildings...but the information you get at Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth and a number of other similar sites are not dealing in crazy theories. They have the "smoking gun" evidence that has been scientifically analyzed and the results published in a peer-review scientific journal. "

I can only bow my head and say, "Thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to weed out the BS and spoon feed us the cream of the crop of truth."

My hat is off to you, Palindromedary!!

PhilipHenderson's picture
PhilipHenderson 10 years 5 weeks ago

Washington Republican politicians do not allow the truth to get in the way of telling the story they want. They are bought and paid for and do the bidding of their billionaire masters. The recent vote on the gun laws reveals everything one needs to know about Washington politics. Republicans will do what their masters tell them even when more than 92 percent of Americans argue otherwise. These guys and gals do what they are told. Some think it is because they want to be re-elected. I do not believe they are as interested in being re-elected as they are interested in being hired as lobbyists when they leave Congress. They must hate what they do as members of Congress. First they must beg for money every day then they must vote against good sense when their masters tell them to do so. This has to be a terrible job for them. the real crisis in our government is not about jobs, or national debt, or even wars. Our real crisis is a moral failure to deal with the truth. Our crisis is to overcome legislators fear of the facts.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

Thank you, DAnnemarc!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 5 weeks ago

Absolutely not! Thank you, Palindromedary!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago
Quote bobthebear:
We do have an advocate in the White House, let's use him.

Do we? Who is that...Obama? Sorry, I don't share your optimism. The thing is that I am quite sure Obama is very much aware of how the people feel about his failure to represent those who voted for him. He obviously doesn't really care and sending letters or making phone calls are a waste of time. But if it makes people feel any better then go ahead...but know won't make any difference. Obama is bought and paid for as his actions have shown. Now if masses of people surrounded the White House...I mean masses..not just a few crowds on their lunch breaks...more like the ones that surrounded the White House during the Nixon Presidency where Nixon expressed his fear that the mobs would break in and grab him then we might get Obama to take action in our favor. I am not advocating this be done...just that nothing will change in our favor until something like this is done. They ignore your emails, letters, and phone calls...except to use that information to tailor yet more rhetoric tailored to psyche you out. The only thing these people understand is scads of money or the possibility of mobs of very ticked off people in close proximity to where they are.

Thanks for that information about Peterson, though. Wow, you know them on first name basis! So, you should know! All I know is what I read and hear. I found quite a few interesting photos of the Rockefeller family over on the web sight. often has some very interesting and revealing information about things you cannot get anywhere else.

Warning! About have posted some very gruesome, very large, and very colorful hi definition photos of the Boston Marathon bombing...just seconds after the bombs went off. There is lots of blood and gore...especially one of the guy who got his leg blown off lying on the sidewalk. So if you don't want to see that kind of thing...don't click on any of the links referring to the Boston Marathon bombing at that web site.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 5 weeks ago

Palindromedary ~ You are of course right; but, I don't think an 'a la Nixon' demonstration would be allowed to occur today. They have had 40 years to prepare for this event. The people must exercise more discretion. They must prepare without leadership--like in the "Occupy" movement. Only such a demonstration would be successful. Like our Hero JFK said, "I have nothing but confidence in an informed electorate." And so, let it be!!

World Peace to Everyone!!


DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 5 weeks ago

Palindromedary~ BTW! I'd just like to say I consider you to be a Patriot of the first class; and, an American Hero. Please keep up the good work; and, have a great weekend.



bobthebear's picture
bobthebear 10 years 5 weeks ago


Back in the late fifties, "Pete" Peterson was the youngest president of McCann, Erickson, Chicago's largest Ad agency. That's where he learned how to BS people. Then he went to Bell & Howell to be its prersident, so that Chuck Percy, A Rockefeller toy boy, could prepare the company to look good enough so that Chuck could run for the U.S.Senate( which he did successfully). I know this because I knew the both of them on a first name basis and was a contributor to the Percy campaign for the senate. Peterson will tell you that he is a billionaire through pure luck. The problem is that luck doesn't teach one how to spend the money. He was worthless as the head of Bell & Howell and just as bad as the Secretary of Commerce and he's still worthless as a runner of a large foundation that looks to make the wealthy, wealthier and the poor poorer. He is not a good man, but like all politicians he can fool you.

Don't forget to send the article to the President.

bobthebear's picture
bobthebear 10 years 5 weeks ago


I basically agree with you.Our hope is in something like the crowds that represented the 99%. I'm doing what I can to beat the drum. The 99% movement is our best chance. The weather is improving and school will soon be out. The timing is perfect. Do what you can, you never know what can be done until you try. Good luck.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 5 weeks ago

2950-10K ~ Agreed!! I too am very happy to see the return of David Abbot. Now if only AliceInWonderland would return--what a happy day it would be, indeed. Happy weekend my friend and be safe!!

humanitys team's picture
humanitys team 10 years 5 weeks ago

It,s time for repair not despair the only change that can really help is an evolution revolution ,and that is exactly the way out of this mess that humanity now find,s itself in.

The change will come from small groups of people around the world getting together to have a conversation around another way of living life that works for the highest good of all.When we say enough is enough and small groups of people band together around new ideas .

Oneness is the answer that we seek and that there is enough to go around for everyone the human consciousness that believes that we are all separate from each other and life and the insistence that there is never enough to go around has caused all the war,s ,struggle and hopelessness in humanity,s story .So to change our idea of who we are and what we are doing here will get us out of this insane competitive driven madness that has been our guiding story for so long now .

Join the revolution of the century at the

The future is what we choose it to be so dream BiG AND LOVE LIFE for life is what we are .

And remember there is only one team on the pitch the other team is not real this is the greatest illusion the magic trick we are playing on ourselves.

allis1's picture
allis1 10 years 5 weeks ago

The politicians are always waiving magic wands to distract you from what they are really doing. One day they say that the unemployment rate is 9 %. The next day they say the US needs more foreign workers and we must legalize the 11 million or more illegal aliens here. We must import more foreign workers. Social Security is an old magic wand. The politicians want to manipulate Social Security so their elite friends can get thier hands on it. They will waive the magic wand of blame on unforseen new claims but they are the ones creating the new Social Security entitled Americans. New legalized Americans just to destroy unions and destroy Social Security.

Roland369 10 years 5 weeks ago

I recall, (and my memory still serves me fairly well) back after 911, how the Democrats continued to give Bush anything he wanted, even after he started talking about invading Iraq. What he didn't get, he took by Presidential decree. Even the media jumped on the Iraq war bandwagon with computer generated graphics, and talking head generals exulting the high tech weapons being used, while the deaths of civilians on the ground was completely ignored.

IF ANY PRESIDENT WAS DESERVING OF IMPEACHMENT IN U.S. HISTORY, IT WAS GEORGE W. BUSH! Illegally invading a country based upon lies, is one of the charges brought against the Nazi invasion of Poland at Nuremburg! Torture memos sent down line (some with Biblical scripture attached) are indicative of a fascist police state, rather than a Democratic Republic.

Extraordinary Rendition, where anyone is kidnapped off any street anywhere in the world, then taken to secret torture sites in Eastern Europe, N. Africa, Abu Grebe or GITMO, is something the Nazi GESTAPO would do in WWII in the countries it occupied.

The Nazi's used the Reichstag fire, to write their Enabling Act, giving them carte blanche control over Germany, especially Jews, Communists, Gypsies, foreigners, and the mentally ill. After 911 ("A New Pearl Harbor," PNAC's phrase) Congress passed the so-called "Patriot Act" and later the NDAA which basically does the same thing (i.e. destroys the Bill of Rights of the Constitution, and turns the U.S. into a police state with the largest domestic espionage agency now being created in Utah).

Now, preemptive strikes are a part of our foreign policy, using UAVs or JSOC SS Assassination Teams, targeting American and non-American labeled as "unlawful enemy combatants," "insurgents," or "terrorists!" The major difference between this and the Einzatsgruppen are the scale, and the fact that the Nazi death squads were targeting Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, and Bolsheviks.

So the question is why didn't the Democrats stop the Neo-Con takeover, and impeach Bush? BECAUSE THEY ARE AS MUCH A PART OF IT AS THE REPUBLICANS!

David Abbot's picture
David Abbot 10 years 5 weeks ago

The Twain Report

All The News That Mark Twain Says He Would Report If He Was Alive Today


Well, friends and neighbors, it's that day again: April 26, and time for a recounting of how our government has done over the last year:

Here is a list of huge corporations that profit from using the infrastructure that OUR taxes pay for. Why do I say OUR taxes? I say it because these corporations pay NO taxes. Instead, they shove off all of the tax burden on the middle class and the poor. Even though they are making incredibly massive profits, and even though their trucks drive on the roads that our taxes paid to build and that our taxes pay to maintain, and they use our police forces and fire departments that our taxes pay to run, they use our courts that our taxes pay to run, they are protected by our military, which OUR taxes support, and they are the main beneficiary of the laws that congress passes, while we are stuck paying for the salaries and perks and benefits of congress.

1. Bank of America, which, in 2010 set up over 200 "subsidiaries" in the Cayman Islands, which is kind of handy because the Cayman Islands don't doesn't tax corporations (unless you consider bribing certain Cayman Island banking executives and government officials to be a tax…). And so Bank of America pays no corporate taxes in America because it isn't really the Bank of America, it's the bank of the Cayman Islands, although it does most of its business in America and makes most of its profit in America, but that's beside the point. And during the financial crisis that Bank of America helped create, Bank of America got over $1.3 trillion in total financial assistance- dare I say "corporate welfare?"- FROM BIG GOVERNMENT.

2. JP Morgan Chase, which, in 2010 operated 83 "subsidiaries" in offshore tax havens to avoid paying $4.9 billion in taxes in America. And during the financial crisis- which JP Morgan Chase also helped create, it received over $400 billion in financial assistance FROM BIG GOVERNMENT.

3. Goldman Sachs, which in 2010 operated 39 "subsidiaries" in offshore tax havens to avoid about $3.3 billion in American taxes. During the financial crisis that Goldman Sachs helped create, it got more than $800 billion in financial assistance FROM BIG GOVERNMENT.

4. Citigroup has paid no federal income taxes for the last five years, after receiving $2.5 trillion FROM BIG GOVERNMENT.

5. General Electric has made $81 billion in profits, without paying ANY income tax on it, while receiving a tax "rebate" of $3 billion FROM BIG GOVERNMENT. GE has at least 14 offshore "subsidiaries" in Bermuda. And just for the record, you want to know what those "subsidiaries" look like? Well, in one building that is approximately 2,000 square feet, there are over 200 huge corporate offices. Well, ok, actually the "offices" are just mail slots, but hey, doesn't it give you any ideas? I mean, you want to avoid paying taxes, just put your money offshore, and it instantly disappears from the IRS's radar. No, wait, that only works if you're a super-rich corporation that has purchased congressmen. GE has stockpiled over $100 billion in cash offshore. It would be so unfair to expect them to pay their fair share of taxes, because during the financial crisis they only got a $16 billion bailout. Obviously, they needed a bailout ever so much more than the people they defrauded of a lot of that money.

6. Verizon has made over $48 billion in profits in the last five years. But not only did Verizon pay NO income tax on that money, IT GOT A $535 MILLION TAX REBATE. Sounds fair to me, hey, they're the job creators, so they should be allowed to do anything they damn well please. And I can certainly see why Verizon can't afford to pay their employees a fair living wage, because if I was making over $48 billion, I sure couldn't afford to pay my employees a fair living wage. I mean, if those employees want a fair living wage, let them pull themselves up by the bootstraps and start gaming the system the way that Verizon does. And it's also obvious that Verizon "had" to cut 13,000 jobs in 2010- the third-highest corporate layoff of the year, because they only made $48 billion, and the top executives of Verizon get to keep more of that money when they lay off thousands of employees and work the remaining employees like dogs and treat them like shit. But hey, any Verizon employee who doesn't like it can get a job somewhere else, there's jobs all over the place! Why, I know a guy who was laid off his job and spent hours every day looking for work and it only took him a year to find another job for minimum wage, so I really don't get what those whiney little crybabies are complaining about. Also, any Verizon employee can also start their own telecommunications company, no problem. Why, I think I'll start one tomorrow- I have a half hour of free time between noon and 12:30.

7. Honeywell International: from 2008 to 2010, Honeywell paid no income tax, instead getting a tax refund of $34 million. Boy, I sure wish that big government would quit regulating Honeywell, which has $8.1 billion in offshore tax havens.

8. Merck: in 2009, Merck paid no income tax, but got a tax refund of $55 million. Dang it, this is just one more example of big government standing in the way of the job creators trying to do business. How dare the government regulate Merck by giving them a $55 million tax refund when Merck didn't even pay any income tax? Merck has $44.3 billion in offshore tax havens.

9. Corning: from 2008 to 2010, Corning paid no income tax, but got a $4 million tax refund. It made about $2 billion in profits in America during those two years. Corning has $10.8 billion in offshore tax havens. Oh, it's SO hard for corporations to do business in America, with big government regulating them so heavily. I think I'll send Corning a few dollars to help tide them over until big government stops regulating them so strictly.

10. Boeing has made over $21 billion in profit in the last five years, while paying no income tax and receiving a $23 million tax refund. To paraphrase Bill Clinton: Boeing, I feel your pain.

11. Microsoft has stashed over $60 billion in offshore tax havens, freeing them from the obligation to pay $19.4 billion in income taxes.

12. Qualcomm has $16.4 billion in offshore tax havens, allowing it to dodge $5.8 billion in income taxes. Yes! The Free Market at work! Well anyway, the Free Market at work for the corporations. Because none of those tricks work for the little people. I mean, if you hid your money offshore, the IRS would fall on you like a ton of bricks. Unless, of course, you made huge "campaign donations" to congress, the way that Qualcomm does.

13. Caterpillar would owe $4.55 billion in income taxes if it hadn't stashed $13 billion in offshore tax havens.

14. Cisco Systems has $41.3 billion in offshore tax havens, freeing it of the obligation to pay $14.45 billion in taxes. You know, I have always admired corporations that can cheat in ways that you and I are not allowed to cheat.

15. Dow Chemical: in addition to manufacturing toxic chemicals that have killed countless people and sickened even more people, Dow has stashed $10 billion in American profits offshore.


David Abbot's picture
David Abbot 10 years 5 weeks ago

Thanks for the welcome back, Palindromedary, 2950-10K, and DAnneMarc.

My involvement in politics is cyclical (probably governed by the planet Sarcasticus in my astrology chart), but even when I'm on sabatical, I appreciate knowing there are other people with whom I share common human values, and I believe that our continued expression and manifestation of human values could turn this planet into a really great place to live.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

DAnnemarc: Well, thank you very much!...I'll try not to let it go to my head. ;-}

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

☕NMAS ☤ ♋?

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

Roland369: Very well said, and I am in total agreement with you! The Democrats are not part of the solution...they are part of the problem. The hijacking of our country by a corrupt two-party system is the problem.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago
Quote allis1:
The politicians are always waiving magic wands to distract you from what they are really doing. One day they say that the unemployment rate is 9 %. The next day they say the US needs more foreign workers and we must legalize the 11 million or more illegal aliens here.

Very well said, allis1! It's all smoke and mirrors, hocus pocus, now you see it now you don't...lies and deception. One day they say we are spending too much on social programs..and the next, they want increase spending on the Pentagon..on illegal foreign wars...on murdering more innocent civilians.

We are being ruled by criminal elite..mostly by keeping us believing in their corrupt two-party system that they call democracy...but it is a Kleptocracy...a Plutocracy...a Corporatocracy all rolled into one.

It really isn't much different than the old Communist Soviet Union, pre-WW1 Britain, or Nazi Germany in many respects. The central planners...the ones with all the money...decides what kind of economy we have. Long ago, they decided to trash a manufacturing economy for a Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate economy (FIRE economy) where they can more easily manipulate wealth...steal it from the masses to concentrate it into the Kleptocratic elite's offshore tax-evading bank accounts. The central planners have shifted our jobs over to China, and other countries, and they have imported cheap labor to compete against ours.

This happened in Britain back before WW1...the British banksters and corporations sought to outsource labor to other countries and imported cheap goods that undercut the prices of locally produced goods....leaving their own citizens to suffer. People lost their jobs and the ones that still had jobs lost a lot of their income because the employers said they had to cut back due to the down economy. Their banksters also redirected their investments to foreign ventures that often went bust.

Pre-WW1 Germany didn't do this...they mostly kept a tight rein on their banks and corporate foreign ventures... training their own citizens in the high tech of their day...keeping their citizens fully employed..and fairly well paid compared to what was happening in Britain.

Then when the sniveling twit dandies running Britain's government and economy got jealous and fearful of Germany's modernization program to much faster, high quality steel war ships running on oil instead of coal the Brits became fearful of Germany and they used the only thing they knew how in trying to subvert Germany's growing power. They used politics and propaganda...dirty tricks and lies to get other countries, especially in the Middle East, to turn against Germany's Baghdad-to-Berlin railway system. Britain believed that all they had to do was to subvert Germany's ability to transport the oil from the Middle East to Germany and that would take the wind out of Germany's sails (rather...take the oil out of Germany's much faster, oil powered, high quality steel battleships). The Germans had even offered Britain a partnership in the Berlin-to-Baghdad railway but stuffy old, paranoid Britain wouldn't go for it.

England refused to, or couldn't, modernize to compete because of ignorant stuff-shirt politician's and the ruling, hoity-toity, profit-driven, wealthy elite who sold out their fellow citizens. So, after the not yet de-industrialized and relatively wealthy US came to the rescue and beat Germany..they (mostly pressured by France and Britain but the US went along with) insisted on impossible reparations from Germany which created hyper-inflation in Germany. Wheel-barrow loads of German money for a loaf of bread.

The industrious Germans would militarize once again to get their vengeance on those that imposed such reparations and humiliation from WW1.

It was democracy that brought Hitler to power. Yet another example of how people can be fooled into thinking they are voting for the least evil...for someone who will represent them..and are easily manipulated by fear-mongers who engineer false-flags to scare them....and getting a dictator who operates on ruthlessness and secrecy.

Hitler told the people what they wanted to hear and then kept covert all of the evil he did. This may very well be what is happening today, here, in the US. Just how open is Obama, really? He once preached on the importance of an open that did not keep secrets from the people...he said that people should expose government corruption and waste. And then what does he turn around and do once he is in power? He prosecutes whistle blowers who rat out corporate and government wrong doing. He wants to prosecute, or execute, Julian Assange and Bradley Manning because they revealed to the world much of the corruption and war crimes, atrocities against civilians, that the US government has committed.

read: "A century of war:
Anglo-American oil politics and the new world order" by William Engdahl

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 10 years 5 weeks ago

Thom has identified with robust clarity a dominant motivation behind the right-wing austerity rubbish. It looks like the Peterson Institute's pro-austerity study was meant to be used as rocket propellant to refuel the Reagan/Thatcher VOODOO economic ship.

As we all know, although Kend may disagree, low tax revenue is the real problem and it's a problem the Teapublicans love. They embrace it for a variety of reasons, one being that unionized public sector jobs get cut, thus weakening the union movement in our fine country.

I did some checking and found out how this, low tax revenue, right-wing austerity, has hurt New York State, and I'm sure NY is just an average example. Here goes, state expenditures have remained around 7% of the state's GDP for the last three decades, it hasn't changed. I don't mean to disappoint the Tea Party, or maybe I do, but the fact remains that NYS has not been on a uncontrolled spending spree for the last 30 years.

During this same time wealth has greatly increased for the top income earners, but guess what, their income tax rate has been cut almost in half. So again we cut the taxes on the rich, dry up the revenue, and use the lack of funding as an excuse to justify privatization and deregulation, which is exactly what Gov. Andrew is doing. By the way, he's a Democrat Palindromedary. See I really am bipartisan!

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 10 years 5 weeks ago

Reply to #24:DAnneMarc: I always look forward to David Abbot's postings, and like you, I also wish AliceInWonderland would return by popular demand.

I can dance to songs like Wooly Bully on Friday night and still get up for my Sat. morning 15 miler, it's all safe and fun. You have a happy and safe weekend too my brother!

ken ware's picture
ken ware 10 years 5 weeks ago

Mr. Obama did not have the Sequester placed into the Budget Act because of the Reinhart & Rogoff study, the idea of a sequester originated in the White House by one of Obama's henchmen and was designed as a tool to get the Republicans to agree on the pending budget because he thought if the funds for the Pentagon were cut, the Republicans would agree on his budget. It backfired in his and the Democrats face when the Repub.'s agreed not to agree with the Democrats on a budget plan, therefore kicking in Sequestration. All the bastards in Washington are responsible for what is happening and what will happen in the next several months. So, no you do not have to contact Obama (as if it would do any good), he already knows Austerity will not work and that is not why he had the Sequester put in the budget!

ken ware's picture
ken ware 10 years 5 weeks ago

DeAnnemarc - You stated you would use your wit's versus having a weapon in your home in the event an intruder might want to enter your home. Really? You actually think your wits as you call them will be a match for a .357 magnum when it comes to protection. What world are you living in? I realize you are a no violence at any cost type of person, but I think you would be singing another tune if a situation occurred where you needed to protect yourself and family, while the police are in route to your home, and someone in your home was killed due to your lack of ability to defend yourself from an armed intruder. Where should we send flowers in the event someone in your area breaks into your home to do harm?

Mark_Pash's picture
Mark_Pash 10 years 5 weeks ago

Cutting the taxes on the rich sure made the socalled deficit problem more severe but it was NOT the cause of the "Great Recesssion". It was 100% caused by the monetary-financial system. This caused total tax revenues to decline and safety net expenses to go up. The entire premise of the deficit is in error that we have to create money by deficit spending and borrowing with a certain % of GDP. Where is it written we have to create money by debt only?? The U.S. is a monetary sovereign nation. It can create money without debt which it has done successfully in the past-3 times. This fiscal argument on the fiscal system does nothing to solve the problem which is monetary.

You had Zarlenga on your show and the answer is also at under the Monetary Reform Section on the right of the home page-We have narrowed down to only 10 pages.

Rogoff and Reinhardt's book did prove that the inflation was greater in the 20th Century under the Central Banks than it was in the 19th Century which is a good argument for complete Monetary Reform

The National Debt is NOT a debt. A debt is something that has to be paid off which we have not done since 1835. It is a National Monetarization account.

Center Progressive Economics

ken ware's picture
ken ware 10 years 5 weeks ago

Mr. Palin - I have taken the time to research the websites you have listed concerning the conspiracy theory that the twin towers and building 7 were brought down by Nano-thermite devises. All the comments you have made appear to be direct quotes from the or These websites are nothing more than conspiracy theory sites that are primarily based on assumptions by the person or persons who run the sites. The whole theory seems to be based upon four samples of dust that were collect from the WTC site on the following dates. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day and a fourth about a week later that contained traces of a microscopic Nano-thermite. Isn't it just as plausible that these samples of dust were planted by a conspiracy theorist fanatic, who was seeking publicityf? And is it not true that the area was so polluted by the tens of thousands of tons of debris, that any dust samples were impossible to be shown in the same manner as any other forensic evidence? Every bit of so called evidence is no more than conjecture or opinions of those trying to prove a conspiracy had taken place by the U.S. Government to destroy the WTC Towers and other buildings in the vicinity. And isn't also true that the paper you reference as being reviewed by scientific peers was no more than three individuals as stated on the Bentham Open website. The film of the Pentagon could also be viewed and a completely different opinion of what took place could be as relevant as the information stated on the conspiracy theory website 9-11 I have also visited the websites you posted earlier in the week on Hartmann's blog and instead of being irrefutable scientific proof it is just more opinions by professionals of what could have happen in their opinion versus substantial scientific evidence of what actually happened on9-11. I could carry on about the information you have printed or have actually just copied from a website that is solely based on theories versus scientific proof that cannot be dismissed as opinions, just to feed the frenzy of conspiracy theorists like you. Again I have to state that everything you have quoted from the paper on the Bentham Open to the information from the websites 9-11reseach and could have easily been planted in an attempt to place the blame on the government, i.e. the Nano-thermite chips that could have easily been placed there and we only have the word of an anonymous Manhattan resident on the time period of when it was found. And with all the destruction that was going on around him or her, what prompted this person to collect a dust sample? It just doesn't pass the smell test of something fishy about this finding. And as the paper stated the other three dust samples were collected days after the Towers feel. So besides theories of conspiracy from a website whose sole purpose is to come up with conspiracy theories there is no forensic evidence that cannot be disputed by any logical person, near alone the N.I.S.T. whom I have more faith in then undocumented evidence of when the first dust sample was collected or film of the Pentagon that could be interpreted in several different ways! Sorry, but presenting evidence from a conspiracy network and samples that cannot be documented as being collected ten minutes after the second Tower fell and could have been planted seems more logical then the logistics behind a massive cover-up by the powers to be in the Federal Government. Aren'f you the same person who has camera's surrounding his home because he is concerned about other people perpetrating a crime against him, that type of mentality is tainted with paranoia. I could go on for hours debunking your so called evidence, but you would just add it up as just more individuals and professional’s that are part of the conspiracy to hide the conspiracy theory that the whole terrorist attack was all a plot by our government to get us into a war with Iraq and Afghanistan. The Bush Administration had already put together lies they presented to Congress, U.N. and he rest of the World to get us into Iraq and the government already had shown that Bin Laden was using Afghanistan as a training center for terrorists that had already attacked us on previous occasions!

Perhaps it would be worth your while if you saw someone about your ongoing paranoia concerning conspiracies that are happening all around you. If you are over seventy that could also enter into the formula of seeing conspiracies that do not exist!

ken ware's picture
ken ware 10 years 5 weeks ago

DeAnneMarc - To answer your question earlier in the week or it could have been last week, NO I do not believe Oswald killed President Kennedy. I think he may have been involved in the plot as a patsy, but it was one of three entities and we cannot be sure it was one of them. The F.B.I. (not very likely), the C.I.A. or the Mafia and maybe a fourth remote entity could have been Castro since the Administration supposedly tried to kill him after the Bay of Pigs failure and that was a true political screw-up, on Kennedy's watch. It is a lot easier to believe there were shooters on the grassy knoll and behind the wall that killed Kennedy in a cross fire, then it is to believe the Bush Administration could control all the logistics involved before, during and after the attack on the W.T.C.'s and that it has been covered up by everyone who was involved or has heard about it in Washington!!! If you believe the Conspiracy theory, I would like to talk to about buying some nice ocean front property in Arizona... K.W.

I also do not believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus or the Conspiracy Theory that the Bush Administration was involved in bringing down the W.T.C. buildings! I am more sure of the later then the first two!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago
Quote ken ware:
Isn't it just as plausible that these samples of dust were planted by a conspiracy theorist fanatic, who was seeking publicity for theirself?

I'm sorry, ken, I just have to laugh...are you serious? Where would a conspiracy theorist fanatic get samples of a relatively hard to get substance like sample taken 10 minutes after the collapse of the 2nd WTC tower...and, in fact, that one woman who lived there, who saved that sample of the dust from inside her own home where the collapse of the towers broke her windows and let the dust in. The other samples were saved from various locations just blocks from the buildings and one was taken from further away off of a bridge railing. So, you are trying to tell me you believe that some conspiracy theorist fanatic went around sometime around the time just prior to when these samples were collected and they planted nano-thermite...along with steel microspheres and all of the other trace elements that indicated a thermitic reaction? Pretty far fetched, ken!!! You sound more like a conspiracy theorist fanatic when you try to say things like that!

Quote ken ware:
I have also visited the websites you posted earlier in the week on Hartmann's blog and instead of being irrefutable scientific proof it is just more opinions by professionals of what could have happen in their opinion versus substantial scientific evidence of what actually happened on9-11.

So what do you call "irrefutable scientific proof" or "substantial scientific evidence"? The opinions by professionals that are on the payroll of a government that has a strong interest in making sure most of the people believe their version of what happened on 911? Because that government (or at least those in power that controlled the government) would make life very miserable for any of their employees who did not tow the line. A government headed up by Bush and the neocons..Dick Cheney, Condoleeza Rice, and all the other criminal war mongers that lied us into invading the Middle East? You prefer that we should believe their official conspiracy theory? The conspiracy theory the government expects everyone to believe...because they told us we should believe it?

They (NIST) didn't even bother to follow their own rules in conducting an official investigation and completely ignored any evidence of explosives. They didn't even bother to scramble the jet fighters until almost an hour after the reported "hijackings" when never before that was there ever a time when jet fighters weren't immediately (within minutes) dispatched even for a small business plane that went off course.

Don't you think it a bit unusual that the government officials...Condolezza Rice and even GWBush, etal, repeatedly mouthed their mantra, after the "attack" that "who could have thought that someone would hijack airliners and crash them into buildings?" when all the while they hid from us the fact that they were actually carrying out a drill, at the time of the actual attack, with the scenario of hijackers crashing airliners into the WTC buildings (among others)?

And why is it that these attacks all seem to happen when they are carrying out drills. What? You think OBL had a mole in the CIA or Pentagon? I think these "drills" are a way that a few in command can make most of the participants in the drill mistake a real attack for a drill clouding their decision making ability. And when the few in command decide to "take it hot" they do...they go live and carry out the real thing. A drill can distract and cause confusion of those in the drill, not knowing of the actual plans of command, from taking measures to prevent an actual attack.

When you carry out such a drill it can give seemingly valid excuses for why you would move attack jets, from Andrews Air Base, near DC, normally assigned to scramble when needed to protect DC and the Pentagon, to another area further south.
Did you not scrutinize all of the scientific data on that pdf? Did you even read that pdf...or did you just read the html page with brief summary and fail to link to the pdf?

This is a peer review journal which is an open invitation for other scientists to prove them wrong...or prove them right. That's how science works! Where are the peer review responses from other scientists who can prove these professionals wrong? What? Popular Mechanics? lol ...LMAO!

How can anyone, after all that has happened the last 30 or so years give our government the benefit of doubt? They have continually lied to us. Of course it is not all the government... there are many good parts of our government that serve to help and protect us..make life livable. But there are the parts of it that have been infiltrated by cruel and selfish interests that have lied to us, got us into criminal wars of aggression against other countries and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. That's the government you don't want to believe...and that is the government that has lied us into these illegal wars...the same one that reads MY PET GOAT to children when the country is under attack...under attack by conspirators that wants to steal our Social Security. That's the evil government that forced NIST to hastily invent data that would support the real evil-doers' official conspiracy theory.

You know there have been many government employees that have quit in disgust over the whole crooked thing. Many have signed oaths that would be thrown in jail if they spoke many won't speak out. But those who do are harassed, fired, or prosecuted for being a whistleblower. Jesselyn Radack ** was one that worked for the Justice Department under Bush and she gave an answer, concerning John Walker Lindh (The American Taliban) that they didn't want to hear. So they attacker her and drove her out of a career she worked very hard to get.

There were many Germans that hated Hitler, too, and they too knew that they couldn't speak out or they'd also go to the gas chambers. The American Nazis in power haven't yet set up gas chambers, that I know of, but I wouldn't be too surprised if they did.
As far as my cameras are concerned..they have been very useful...because I have caught several people trying to bust into my cars (one just the night before last), steal my mail, and steal UPS packages. If you think I am being paranoid what! least I'm not a vulnerable victim. I have taken a pro-active step in self-protection. You can understand that can't you, ken? After all you don't think you are being paranoid because you have guns do you? You have said so yourself that you believe having your own guns is a good thing because it could help protect you or your family against harm one day. I agree. Maybe you should put up some cameras too...just a suggestion. I doesn't hurt to be alerted of an intruder well before they get into your house...not that you can actually shoot them until they do break into your house and actually show intent to harm you or your loved ones. Proving self-defense in this country is getting harder to do.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago
Quote ken ware:
NO I do not believe Oswald killed President Kennedy. I think he may have been involved in the plot as a patsy, but it was one of three entities and we cannot be sure it was one of them. The F.B.I. (not very likely), the C.I.A. or the Mafia and maybe a fourth remote entity could have been Castro since the Administration supposedly tried to kill him after the Bay of Pigs failure and that was a true political screw-up, on Kennedy's watch.

So, you don't believe the official lone-gunman assassination theory that our government told us was true..that there was no conspiracy...Oswald acted alone..and they even had a Warren Commission enforce the official government story. There's hope for you yet, Ken!

Quote ken ware:
It is a lot easier to believe there were shooters on the grassy knoll and behind the wall that killed Kennedy in a cross fire, then it is to believe the Bush Administration could control all the logistics involved before, during and after the attack on the W.T.C.'s and that it has been covered up by everyone who was involved or has heard about it in Washington!!!

Bush didn't control much of anything...he is pretty much a half-wit that couldn't even lie was so obvious when he lied. I'm sure he made Cheney very nervous. That's why they wouldn't agree to let Bush testify alone..nor under oath...they needed Cheney to baby sit.

I know it is easy to say Bush did this or Obama did that but really...they are, themselves, useful idiots to take the heat for things that are orchestrated in many levels above them. The President is not the top guy in control. He is not the decider. It is easy to say the government did this or the government did that...but the government that we all think we know is not the real power behind what goes on in the world. We all get into the habit of using these convenient useful idiots as the targets of our frustrations but as there are many levels of culpable or plausible deniability to protect not only the President and Congressmen but also those in the 3 letter agencies and the Pentagon. The real plotters use their useful idiots in government and the military to carry out actions while, themselves, remaining relatively invisible. Yes, there are those infused within the structure that knows what is going on and may even be very much part of what drives the apparatus. Some are, most likely, very much in agreement with what they are tasked to do. All good soldiers to achieve what is expected of them. Some to fall on their swords to protect the higher powers. And I'm sure they all internalize the righteousness of their endeavors. Have you internalized the righteousness of your endeavors, Ken?

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

Our government's targeted assassination of Anwar Al-Awlaki and his 16 year old son, along with another child, that were all American citizens is very indicative of how our government can manipulate the public into believing and accepting the government's position.

None of us are really very safe under such a condition. The government claims that there is a difference between someone who has radical views and someone who is an imminent threat to the lives of other people. They want us to believe that they don't target people with radical views (like many Americans who express their views on the internet)...they only assassinate those who are imminent threats..those who are operational. But, according to a recent Supreme Court statement the only time the government is authorized to assassinate anyone is if they are proven to be part of Al Qaida. The government often stretches their story and doesn't often have real evidence that the people they have assassinated are Al Qaida. In fact, I just read some news reports that of the 400 plus people they have assassinated with their drones...most were not Al Qaida at all but, perhaps, only dissidents...people that are ticked off at our government for murdering their families and occupying their lands. In fact many were innocent civilians...women and children.

It is notable how Al-Awlaki went, in our government's propaganda, from being a radical propadandist to an Al-Qaida terrorist actively plotting to take American lives.

His son (AbdulRahman) and a teenage cousin, they claim, were merely another case of collateral damage...a mistake. After our government zapped Al-Awlaki with their drones (after many tries) they later zapped the kids at a barbecue.

I believe it was not a mistake and that our government took out the son, knowing full well who they were targeting.

Al-Awlaki, knew the danger (having managed to evade a number of drone attack misses) tried to keep his son away from him at a safe distance (another location) with the mother. The son, obviously idolized his father, even taking an internet blog username of ibn-shahk (means son of the shahk). So, I believe our government zapped the kid so that he didn't try to follow in his father's footsteps. Perhaps the son had expressed his views on blogs that our government didn't like.

By the way...Jesselyn Radack is being interviewed at this Democracy Now web site.

ken ware's picture
ken ware 10 years 5 weeks ago

Palin - I would appreciate it if you could give me the source of your information that claims the N.I.S.T. refused to allow any other scientific body to examine the computer model of why the Towers collapsed. Again, all you do is provide the same rhetoric about how there is this conspiracy by the United States Government to hide what actually occurred on 9-11! The point I was making is that it is doubtful the information provided by the 9-11reseach website holds any validity. My comment about a conspiracy fanatic or group planting evidence after the terrorists act, to conspire against the government and bring about some type of change is just as easy to accept, as a theory that the workings of some sinister covert group within the government was responsible for 9-11! And I doubt the people who discovered the thermite had bothered to check to see if the material could have been the result of an earlier event and was mixed into the dust and debris at the time of impact to the structure. And it would be easier to believe that, then the theory your hold on to. As I have stated before, no matter what anyone says you have a habit of changing the parameter of the people involved. Now it is not the Bush Administration because he is a bumbling fool, so now it is some other entity within the government that had the ability, power and logistics to put this all together and enough power or clout so that anyone involved is afraid to come forward! Ha! When I first read your comments concerning the conspiracy that you claim happened it was remote controlled aircraft and the terrorist were duped into playing their part in the whole scenario, my thought was, are you for real, honestly YOUR story combined with the website where you obviously get all your information sounds crazier every time you repeat it. And as I stated before, you just simply dismiss anyone or any facts that do not corroborate your beliefs. Who is this mystery woman and she was saving dust ten minutes after the fall of the second tower, while everyone else including the first responders were scattering and running as far away from the poison dust and debris that was filling the air, just sounds silly a best. To state the real plotters used the President and other high ranking officials without their knowing anything was going on, is ludicrous my friend. I have checked all the websites you stated would prove your ranting’s and they proved to be, without a doubt, worthless. And of course anyone who disagrees with you also has been duped into believing it was the terrorist! I have tried very hard to see your side of the argument and I end up reading material that is primarily nothing more than conspiracy theorist hype from the sources you have given as your source of information. I even went so far as to Google the information you presented and I end up at the same websites as a source of information on this subject ( I am sorry, but as long as you have to use these specific websites for your source of scientific information, I have to laugh in your face. You sound desperate when you try to use the execution of known terrorists as examples of how our government has lied to us. I agree the government has a habit of lying to everyone to a certain point, but let’s be real here for a minute and try to think of how stupid this conspiracy theory sounds! I am not going to indulge your fantasies any further and end this conversation, hopefully for the last time! I think we both have a pretty good idea how the other guy thinks in this conversation, especially concerning your paranoia about the government and your theories. As far as drone attacks go on enemies of America, I am all for them. If they keep our brave pilots out of harm’s way while accomplishing a needed goal to keep the terrorist element in check, I say go for it. Terrorists like those you have stated in your earlier comment will continue their so called holy war against the West no matter what we do or do not do at any given time. Do you not understand the radical Muslims believe this is a war to the death for them or us? And they will continue to be a constant threat to our way of life until they are all destroyed or put out of business by the Western Powers. My personal opinion is that we must continue this war to eradicate every radical Muslim that feels they are a part of a religious jihad against US! You can continue to make your remarks about me and I will continue to state I sincerely believe you show symptoms of paranoia as long as you accept these idiotic conspiracy theories from websites like and, who choose which part of the truth they will exploit for their own gain in their tilted minds. Sorry pal, you sound ridiculous. I must have missed something as far as a list of professionals like doctors and the alike that believe the conspiracy. It shows no empirical evidence to support their claims. You need to understand you cannot just pick out parts of information that supports your claims and dismiss the rest. Give good hard scientific and empirical facts and you might, I say might loosely, have a rational point to comment on. K.W.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 5 weeks ago

Ken Ware ~ I have to side with Palindromedary as far as the explosives being used to bring down the buildings. I'm satisfied with that paper enough to draw that conclusion. However, other than circumstantial evidence that President Bush and his administration went too far out of their way to avoid the intelligence reports, I really must admit that you have a good case in defending his involvement with the controlled demolition side of this huge crime. Remember, he spent his first year in office on vacation everywhere. He even went home to pick weeds at his ranch. I don't even pick my own weeds in my own house. I pay the neighbor kid to do it. You would think the Bush family could afford a landscaper or two.

Only the WTC owner, or someone with access to the WTC would be the chief suspects in this crime for now; at least until better evidence is found linking members of the Government, or. until Palindomedary shares that evidence with us. (I must say he has been on fire with great info this week. I wouldn't be surprised to hear him drop another bomb shell.)

Yes, a pun was intended. Laughter is good for the soul, Ken. Ha! Lighten up! Besides this discussion is becoming a little bit too heated!

Yes, sorry, yet another pun! There I go again. I hope I'm not bringing the house down...

Oh what's the use?

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 5 weeks ago

Ken Ware ~ Concerning guns in my home. I feel safer without them. I have a huge temper and would probably be in jail a long time ago if I had a gun--provided I didn't shoot myself first. (I also have a history of suicidal tendencies. Another reason I don't worry about someone else shooting me before I do it myself.)

I also feel safer unarmed because I know if an intruder in my home finds me holding a gun he has no choice but to assume I intend to use it and try to kill me. After doing so, to avoid any witnesses incriminating him in court, he has no choice but to kill everyone in the house. Unless I'm very good with a gun, very lucky, surprise him before he surprises me, and hit him with a sufficiently disabling shot the first time I risk the lives of everyone in the house by resorting to a gun. I'd rather gamble that raising my hands and surrendering anything in the house he may want will be sufficient. If not, what the hell, at least I didn't have to shoot myself.

Where should you send the flowers? Just buy yourself a dozen red roses, put them on your table, and think about me when you look at them.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago
Quote ken ware:
Palin - I would appreciate it if you could give me the source of your information that claims the N.I.S.T. refused to allow any other scientific body to examine the computer model of why the Towers collapsed. Again, all you do is provide the same rhetoric about how there is this conspiracy by the United States Government to hide what actually occurred on 9-11!
Quote History Commons:

October 6, 2005: NIST Refuses to Show Computer Visualizations of WTC Collapses

The British publication New Civil Engineer reports that, despite calls from leading structural and fire engineers, WTC collapse investigators with the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) are refusing to show computer visualizations of the Twin Towers’ collapses. Despite having shown detailed computer generated visualizations of the plane impacts and the development of fires in the WTC at a recent conference, it showed no visualizations of the actual collapse mechanisms of the towers.

A leading US structural engineer says that NIST’s “global structural model” is less sophisticated than its plane impact and fire models: “The software used has been pushed to new limits, and there have been a lot of simplifications, extrapolations and judgement calls.” [New Civil Engineer, 10/6/2005]
September 27, 2007: NIST Says It Cannot Explain the Total Collapse of the World Trade Center

In a reply to criticisms of its World Trade Center investigation, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) admits that it is unable to fully explain the total collapse of the Twin Towers on 9/11.

Quote History Commons/about:
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Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago
Quote excerpt: Jim Hoffman:
title: Building a Better Mirage: NIST's 3-Year $20,000,000 Cover-Up of the Crime of the Century

NIST (National Institute for Standards and Technology) was given a budget of tens of millions of dollars to study the collapses of the World Trade Center skyscrapers. Yet it avoided that charge in any meaningful sense. Its final report admits that it didn't even attempt to model the collapses.

The first critique to thoroughly expose NIST's evasion of its task of investigating the collapses was provided by Sami Yli-Karjanmaa on July 14, 2005. The following excerpt includes more that half of the brief critique.

and skipping down to a summation:
Quote summation:
The reports by NIST say nothing about how -- and if! -- the collapse was able to progress through dozens and dozens of structurally intact floors without being stopped. If no external energy was available e.g. in the form of explosives, this would have been the opportunity to show that no such energy was needed. On the other hand, if some unaccounted-for energy broke the supporting structures enabling the collapse to progress with the speed it did, there would have been many good reasons not to try to model the impossible, ie. a purely gravitation-driven collapse. Stopping the analysis early enough also saves NIST from trying to explain the symmetricality of the collapses (despite non-symmetrical impact damage and fires), the almost complete pulverization of non-metallic materials as well as the extremely hot spots in the rubble. These remain as inexplicable by the official story as they have ever been.

Quote excerpt: Dave Parker:
title: WTC Investigators Resist Call for Collapse Visualisation

WORLD TRADE Center disaster investigators are refusing to show computer visualisations of the collapse of the Twin Towers despite calls from leading structural and fire engineers, NCE has learned.

Visualisations of collapse mechanisms are routinely used to validate the type of finite element analysis model used by the investigators.

The collapse mechanism and the role played by the hat truss at the top of the tower has been the focus of debate since the US National Institute of Standards & Technology (NIST) published its findings (NCE 22 September 2005).
University of Manchester (UK) professor of structural engineering Colin Bailey said there was a lot to be gained from visualising the structural response. "NIST should really show the visualisations, otherwise the opportunity to correlate them back to the video evidence and identify any errors in the modelling will be lost," he said.

Quote excerpt: Kevin Ryan:
title: NISTs WTC7 Report
After years of talking about diesel fuel fires and damage from the towers being the causes of the near free-fall collapse of WTC 7, and then acting as if they just couldn't get a handle on it, NIST now has a new "obvious" story. The new story is based on a "new phenomenon" of thermal expansion whereby fully insulated steel beams are exposed to temperatures of 600 ºC in only 32 minutes. Believe it or not, NIST actually says this happened in only a few seconds (NCSTAR 1-9, table 8-2, p 353). really need to read the whole thing...I can't quote it all here...but what it amounts to is how ridiculous NIST's hypothesis is. These people are scientists..critical thinkers? They are obviously Ken's kind of people.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 5 weeks ago

Ken Ware ~ Your dismissal of this paper published in the scientific journal in question is quite disturbing. This evidence was submitted with a legal affidavit sworn by the witnesses who submitted it. Every test was meticulously described and documented and published in a peer reviewed paper over 4 years ago. It is both legally and scientifically sound to hold up in any court. It is you who are charged with the task of finding a peer counter study that adequately debunks the findings of this study. After 4 years of circulation, if that study isn't yet published it won't be. In this case, it is you who are grasping straws and far out conspiracy theories to prove what YOU want to believe.

Remember, this paper does not incriminate the Government in any direct way. All the evidence says is that SOMEONE or SOME GROUP used Super Thermite to conduct a controlled demolition of the WTC at the same time it was hit by aircraft. The people who used the explosives probably had advanced knowledge of the attack. Whoever did it can be considered accessories in mass murder. It does not place blame for the explosives on anyone. The only thing implied by this investigation is that a further investigation as to whom placed the explosives is warranted. Please stop trying to attack sound scientific facts to support your completely unsupported faith in our Government's leaders. When you do it is YOU who come off as sounding crazy. Especially when you fully admit that the Warren Commission was a fairytale. Why should NIST be considered trustworthy when the Warren Commission was as scientific as "My Pet Goat?"

ken ware's picture
ken ware 10 years 5 weeks ago

Palin & DeAnne - Again you supply your opinion with no way of verifying anything more than this one paper. Palin you supply quotes with no possible means to authenticate who actually made these supposed statements. And again these quotes are nothing more than opinions, not scientific data. It is great you agree with each other, but you have shown me nothing except more quotes and you own opinions. As a commercial once said, “where’s the meat"? Nothing has changed here, you are both are just suggesting your beliefs are more valid then mine. You are emotionally reasoning the situation, and all I am asking for is verifiable scientific info! You two bark a lot, but you have no bite. Just your emotionally charged statements because with the exception of this one paper you cannot show any further empirical information. lt is only your opinion when you state how can I believe N.I.S.T. because the big bad government lies to us. How can you two believe in some conspiracy based on the limited and illogical information provided by a conspiracy website like Your comments are nothing more than emotionally charged opinions and the quotes by specific individuals without any information of where they can be verified is very sloppy work. I really expected more from you two, but I guess believing someone who believes this conspiracy theory is illogical on my part. Sorry guys, no cigars for the information you have provided to try and legitimize your opinionated claims. Do you really believe I would fall for the crap you two have posted on this site? Please give me more credit than that, after all you provided nothing more than your opinions. And Deanne, go ahead and throw your arms up and pray this individual that has broken into your home won't eliminate the people who could be eye witnesses to his crime. Most criminals have two strikes against them in the judicial system and a third strike sends them to prison for life. You want me to buy roses; you are the most feminine male I have ever run across! But I am sure that would be a compliment in your mind. K.W. Got up to use the restroom and noticed your comments and could not resist setting you two straight on this matter and your silly comments. Please excuse my sentence structure or grammar I am half asleep at this time in the morning.

ken ware's picture
ken ware 10 years 5 weeks ago

Palin - There is one theory that has occurred to me and it is somewhat disturbing. What if the C.I.A. and the Military Generals worked together to make sure we went to war? The C.I.A. could have known the terrorists had begun a plot to train their people in the basics of flying large aircraft. It was shown that O.B.L. had financed some very intelligent terrorist agents to be trained in flying large aircraft at flight schools. They had been trained at several flight schools around the nation. There were nineteen terrorists that took over the four aircraft involved in the attack. Their primary concern was to learn how to fly the large commercial jets, not land them. As we know only three reached their targets as planned by the terrorists. The Military had access to the Nano- thermite devices that could have been used to help bring down the Towers on 9-11 and they could have given the devices to the C.I.A. to use during the time the aircraft hit their targets. The Nano-thermite devices could have been placed in critical areas beforehand and used at the time of impact by the airliners, since the C.I.A. could have had knowledge of when the attacks were going take place and what the targets would be. It would be easy logistically to pull off with only a handful of military and C.I.A. agents involved. The civilian government would not have been aware of what was going on and therefore it would be relatively easy to accomplish the task under the nose of the civilian government without throwing up any red flags. And it could have involved only those on the top with a few rouge field agents to carry out the planting of the devices beforehand. All they had to do was wait for the event to happen and set off the super-hot thermite devices. No leaks and no logistic problems for those involved. This could account for the particles in the dust and the ability to hide their involvement from the civilians who run the government. Now I am starting to sound paranoid. With no involvement from the White House or Congress and the real perpetrators so high on the food chain they would never be questioned. Funding for the military machine and the C.I.A. would see unlimited financing from the President and the Congress. Easy logistics, access to the Nano technology at Livermore and other military labs and no questions asked by the civilian government. Since Nano-thermite technology is relatively new, they would not fear anyone finding out what was used in the destruction of the main support beams. Take the civilian government out of the picture and with very little effort you could keep the agents from revealing any info (i.e. whistle blowing) because they could be indicted or assassinated themselves by other agents in the Military or C.I.A., and you have the perfect plan to pull off the biggest military coup against civilians in our history. Now I am getting a little nervous. The Military machine and the C.I.A. could have felt they were in absolutely no danger of being found out. Change it from a governmental plot to a plot by the Military Generals and those rouge C.I.A. agents with some real power and you have the perfect formula for a conspiracy to get us into a needless war and increased spending for the Military and our super-secret spy agency. I would expect the funding for the C.I.A. may have been reduced with the ending of the U.S.S.R. and the fall of Communism. Which was one of the main reasons for big budgets for the Military and the C.I.A.? Just switch the civilian government to the Military and the C.I.A. and it is a very plausible scenario. A scenario like this still sounds like a paranoid theory in some spy novel. I still do not believe this is what happened on 9-11, but it helps to explain why the Nano-thermite particles were in the dust, if there actually were particles from some thermite devise. Maybe I need therapy if I start believing what I just wrote! K.W. P.S. This could be why the info from the F.B.I. and a C.I.A. agent was ignored by the two agencies and the White House...I hope you realize I am just using this as a joke in reference to your conspiracy theory. DeAnne - read my answer to you on the next web page.

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