Tanks aren't the only way to support an economy.

Sequester cuts are hitting vital programs like Meals on Wheels, Head Start, and cancer treatment centers. So, it's difficult to understand why Congress would be pushing to spend $436 million on tanks that the Army says it does not need. According to Congress, keeping the production line of tanks rolling is important to jobs and supporting businesses in Lima, Ohio, where the tanks are manufactured. But the Army chief of staff says, “If we had our choice, we would use that money in a different way.”

The military must absorb $487 billion in sequester cuts over the next decade, and like various other programs effected by the cuts, they're finding it difficult to figure out where that money will come from. Reducing the production of tanks they don't need seems to be a reasonable cut. But, Lima Mayor David Berger says the plant is the city's fifth-largest employer, and closing the factory would have “about a $100 million impact annually.”

Once again, we see a prime example of how Republican austerity destroys economies. There's no question that it's foolish to be building tanks our military doesn't need, but without economic investment in that region, there may not be other jobs available for that plant's employees. And, as the sequester has also forced cuts to vital programs like unemployment aid, housing assistance, and nutritional programs, people who find themselves out of work will find it even more difficult to get by.

Instead of arguing with the military about whether or not the tanks are needed, Congress should be investing in Lima, Ohio, and creating new jobs for plant employees to turn to. While they're at it, they should also reverse the Republican austerity measures hitting children, seniors, and cancer patients in our nation. Let's demand that Congress put an end to the now-debunked austerity theory and start putting people back to work. Join the fight at No-Cuts.com.

Comments

Vegasman56 9 years 39 weeks ago
#1

It is a dilemma isn’t it Thom, that is a hard decision to make, should we keep supplying jobs by supporting the military-industrial complex, or transition to a more productive employment for American citizens. Of course I’ll always choose the more productive employment for our country. And I agree with you to bring back more of the industrial employment for this nation will make us leaders again for the rest of the world to follow. The austerity measures that the Republicans want to bring upon this country will only benefit one group of people, and that would be the top 1 to 2% and take the common working family to a lower level. A good example we can look at is, Rio de Janeiro where there’s only two classes, the fabulous Rich, and their servants. And that’s a past I do not want to go down

Tara T's picture
Tara T 9 years 39 weeks ago
#2

First I've come to enjoy everyone's exchanges on this blog. It's so entertaining that I might have to start getting involved.

From fridays blog on the part about discussing home invasions:

@Ken You do realize the likelyhood that you'd be able to protect yourself against a home invasion with a gun is virtually slim to none right? I personally also own a glock for home protection and I'm quite good with it. But I don't live in a fantasy world where I don't know general statistics of how often an invasion is thwarted by a gun or have some sort of superman complex created by the movie industry telling me that I can be the hero in these situations. There are so many variables that go into dealing with a home invasion -- most of which are involuntary reactions of which you can not say you'll be able to follow through with unless you've actually done it. Not only that but generally the person with the element of surprise is going to win the race every last time.

I'd love to see how you can back up your assuredness of any man's capibility to protect themselves in a home invasion. Aside from falsified stories written by NRA supported think tanks of course.

@DAnne

I mostly agree with you but I have to say you are being idealistic about stopping them from raping or murdering you and your family with your wit. The likelyhood of that is probably less than holding that gun. People that aren't interested in hurting the home owners commit robberies -- aka robbing a home while the tenants aren't there to avoid these situations. The other ones maliciously commit home invasions with the intent of hurting the occupants nearly every time -- aside from maybe meth heads that don't what they are doing. Their first priority is terrorism and they may follow up with stealing your crap as an after thought as well. Though, maybe not.

You have to think of these things in a realistic nature. No one likes to though, because the outcome is nearly always grim no matter how you prepare yourself.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 9 years 39 weeks ago
#3

Vegasman56 -- The last and current leader of Brazil seem to be doing wonderful things. For example, they went to the WTO and received permission to put a 47% tariff on incoming Apple products from China. As a consequence, Apple decided to build a factory in Brazil. The other thing I recall that the leaders did was in response to an oil spill. About a year ago there was a small (in comparison to the BP disaster) oil spill and the response was to take away all the passports of the executives of the oil company. One of them was an American. Are any of the Brazilian leader's actions reducing wealth and income inequality?

JOHN N DAUGHERTY JR's picture
JOHN N DAUGHERTY JR 9 years 39 weeks ago
#4

Thom,

The magic hand of the free market economy will encourage investment in the region but probably the reality will be taking more jobs off shore since labor and specific safety standards in developing nations are a century behind the times.

I use to think that most American's cared about products made in America and the jobs it protected. Now I don't know. Actual middle class working Americans elected our Congress and they seem perfectly fine in taking us back to Victorian age economic policies.

Of course we should be setting policy to bring new manufacturing jobs so we can produce widgets that will spur economic recovery, but Thom that sounds like European Socialism if you listen to those poor bastards who keep Congress loaded with neo-conservative mono brow representaives.

No Thom, I use to think shows like yours would make understanding what our country needs to succeed but after wittnessing the Bush II years and even President Obama at work I don't hold out for any sensible policies that will grow our economy for over 95 percent of our citizens.

Good luck trying, I'll do my part voting and sharing about progressive ideas that worked with President's FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson and yes even Nixon.

Concerned citizen,

JND

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 39 weeks ago
#5

Tara T ~ Point well taken. I meant using my wit in preparation before the event not during. If someone wants to physically hurt me--other than shoot me--they are going to have to get very close. If they want to rape me--even closer. Once that gun gets in my reach and they become distracted--like one does during a rape--one of us is going to die. May God help him if he attacks my wife first.

You see my friend I'm only 50 years old. I still have my youthful physical abilities. This is not to say that I won't change my mind about gun ownership when I'm Ken Ware's age. Not that Ken can't take care of himself, but I doubt I will have his physical prowess at 65 years of age--if I'm lucky enough to live that long. LOL

By the way Tara T, you might want to know that I grew up in the most crime infested areas of Oakland, CA. I still live here. I've learned to cope with criminals without owning a weapon. I've experienced everything from purse snatchings and muggings to drive by shootings and gang fights with machine guns. I've never been inspired to own a weapon. I've never been terrified. Perhaps I'm numb to the violence. Perhaps I'm just used to it.

The only thing that ever really terrified me was a brutal bar fight in San Francisco and a mugging of a little old lady my family experienced when I was a toddler. Strangely, neither incident involved a gun. In the case of the little old lady my father helped her after finding her collapsed on the street, bleeding profusely and we took her to a local hospital. Despite cooperating with the mugger he beat her senseless. Broke her nose right off her face. I still have nightmares about it. You could see the hole in her skull. We kept struggling to find things in the car she could use to stop the bleeding.

I brought up this attack experience as an adult at a neighborhood watch meeting several years ago with an experienced Oakland Police Officer presiding over a group of mostly seniors. The advice she gave those senior in such a situation may surprise you. She suggested that holding ones keys in their hand with the shafts pointing out between our fingers and your hand balled up into a fist makes a very dangerous weapon. She also suggested pepper spray. However, under the table she said she carries in her purse a can of Easy Off Oven Cleaner. She guaranteed that a blast of that to the face of anyone will discourage any further aggression--possibly forever. She asked us all not to tell anyone she said that. So please Tara T, just keep that between you and me. LOL

ptg0's picture
ptg0 9 years 39 weeks ago
#6

It seems to me that nobody was concerned when they closed the tank plant in Detroit. The "Arsenal of Democracy" was kicked when it was already down. As a matter of fact, the "government" paid General Dynamics to build a massive facility just 5 miles up the road and then sold off the facility where tanks were produced for 50 years to a couple of bankrupt corporations and a farce of a vocational training school.

I have to ask why it is so difficult to bring manufacturing jobs to the people, jobs that could create jobs and save energy at the same time, but then it becomes obvious.

The "government" is nothing but a terrorist organization, intent on ruining the middle class. Led by a liar who chumped us all with his "look forward, not backward" scam, we are stuck with people that would prefer to game the system by passing tax cuts that benifiet themselves, protecting banksters from criminal prosecution because "they" hope to capture one of those board of directors jobs that pay 2 MILLION per year for attending a couple of meetings, meaning they can write off the personal jet as a business deduction, additionally protecting the mortgage fraudsters, freddie may and company along with the criminally insane energy cabal.

It becomes quite evident why obama is so intent on passing gun control laws, even though his "affordable care joke" has a law in it that forbids gun registration.

The "government" consists of criminals. Most all should be in prison for treason. At the least, anyone that voted for the support of either invading Afghanistan or Iraq should have "@sshole" tatooed on thier forehead but instead we allow the parasites to keep on voting themselves raises and immunity from laws that the rest of us are held to.

Jefferson was right. We should flush the toilet of washington every 20 years. The toilet is full of terds. Time to flush.

Vegasman56 9 years 39 weeks ago
#7

Poverty in Rio de Janeiro

“Are any of the Brazilian leader's actions reducing wealth and income inequality?”

I do not have an answer to that question. But there is great separation from the top wealthiest people, and the extreme poor. I’m going to give you two YouTube videos one of them Poverty in Rio de Janeiro, the another, a TED Talk, given by Richard Wilkinson. I do believe you will find them interesting.

Poverty in Rio de Janeiro

Richard Wilkinson: How economic inequality harms societies

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rio de Janeiro is the 2nd richest city in Brazil, behind São Paulo and the 30th richest city in the world with a GDP of R$ 201,9 billion in 2010. The per capita income for the city was R$22,903 in 2007 (around US$14,630). According to Mercer's city rankings of cost of living for expatriate employees, Rio de Janeiro ranks 12th among the most expensive cities in the world in 2011, up from the 29th position in 2010, just behind São Paulo (ranked 10th), and ahead of London, Paris, Milan, and New York City. Rio also has the most expensive hotel rates in Brazil, and the daily rate of its five star hotels are the second most expensive in the world after only New York City

Lots of Christians are waiting for the second coming, I believe we have a long time many, centuries before that will happen. Tell me what you think, or believe.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 39 weeks ago
#8

Thom and Louise wrote ~ "The military must absorb $487 billion in sequester cuts over the next decade, and like various other programs affected by the cuts, they're finding it difficult to figure out where that money will come from. "

Are you kidding me! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!! I previously suggested cutting $250 Billion from the military ANNUALLY!! I was being conservative for crying out loud. However, now that we know what they are capable of when the President suggests cutting $200 Billion annually, maybe we better watch out. Who knows if we dare to cut more fat from this huge grotesque greesy PIG of a bureaucracy we might find one of our beloved cities in nuclear ashes.

I say cut 100% of the military budget. With friends like these who needs enemies?

ScottFromOz 9 years 39 weeks ago
#9

I have an idea for the central peg for our economy...elections. Since the (massively inappropriately named) Citizens United case, we have seen unprecedented spending by the 1% trying to buy the government THEY want. I'm not sure we'll ever know where all of Sheldon Adelson's $100mil got spent, but some of it must have filtered into the economy. So it seems to me that as long as we can keep a government that the 1% don't like, in place they will open their pockets in an effort to overthrow it. Then all we have to do is create a perpetual election cycle and ... Voila! Economy solved.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 9 years 39 weeks ago
#10

Thanks for the links. I will try to study them in the next couple of days. Do you know if R. Wilkinson computes the GINI coefficient for Brazil? That would be a good indication if the policies of the new leaders are working.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 9 years 39 weeks ago
#11

DAnneMarc -- If you are saying we have to cut the budget to cut more fat from the "greasy pigs", then you begin to sound like Grover Norquist. I like the more possible scenario of spending more (actually investing more). Have you not heard that the Reinhart-Rogland study that says we need to cut expenditures was a scam?

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 39 weeks ago
#12

Your country is 17 trillion dollars ($17,000,000,000,000.00) in debt and you are finding it hard to cut a few hundred billion here and there. Are you kidding me? We did it the best way here. We cut every department by 5% right across the board. The best part is no body even noticed the cuts. Nothing changed.

Do you know in 2014 the US budget is about 3.8 trillion. ($3,800,000,000,000.00), billions are a drop in the bucket.

Ohhh i wish I was a liberal it is so much easier to spend it then pay for it and when you are spending it you are the hero. No one even says thank you to the ones who pay for it they just tell you you didn't pay enough. God forbid you ever asked them to spend less you are evil, heartless, you don't care.

Oh by the way before you send me your hate mail I had a MRI and I saw that I do have a heart I can show you the proof.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 39 weeks ago
#13

chuckle8 ~ No! Please understand my perspective. I see three unexplained, tragic explosions occurring on American streets right after the President announced a $200 Billion cut in defense spending. I'm looking at the situation from the perspective of Dwight Eisenhower and JFK after they gave the farewell address and the speech about Secret Societies respectively. I'm also looking at the situation after I just heard about the peer reviewed scientific journal article entitled, "Traces of Super Thermite found in WTC Dust. I'm also considering this 'opinion' after learning for the first time about "Operation Northwood." If you know nothing about this--and it appears you do--I'd suggest typing "Operation Northwood" into your search engine. You will be shocked and surprised to find "Operation Northwood" appear in your number one search location before you finish typing O P E R A T I O ,.....

After you read about "Operation Northwood" and hear the speeches I'm talking about--as well as reading the paper I'm talking about--come back and ask your question again!! IF YOU DARE!!!!

We HAVE TO CUT MILITARY EXPENDATURES NOT FOR ECONOMIC SECURITY; BUT FOR THE MILITARY SECURITY OF THE NATION!! The economy is a lesser concern. Our chief security/financial problem is our military! IT MUST GO!!!!!!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 39 weeks ago
#14

Kend wrote ~ "Oh by the way before you send me your hate mail I had a MRI and I saw that I do have a heart I can show you the proof."

In that case please find a way to post it. If the majority of us don't see concrete proof you have a heart we won't believe it. (BTW Even with proof I fear most people on this Blog won't believe it anyway!)

Vegasman56 9 years 39 weeks ago
#15

You stated above in your blog

"It becomes quite evident why obama is so intent on passing gun control laws, even though his "affordable care joke" has a law in it that forbids gun registration."

Which is not true, what it says it prevents doctors, from asking you about your guns. As Bill Moyers explains in a Essay: The Gun Lobby’s Firepower, it starts about 3 min. and 45 seconds into the video

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 9 years 39 weeks ago
#16

Seeing how they fly frequently, it didn't take the do nothing congress long to do something about the air traffic control cuts.

Surprisingly though, REPUBLICANS also reached quick agreement on the importance of Govt. spending on even more jobs. But wait, the jobs are connected to the military industrial complex, so I guess no real surprise there either. Just as long as we cut the jobs that deliver meals to elderly shut ins, we can afford to build tanks the military doesn't even want. They're good REPUBLICAN jobs, the kind that relate to the profitable business of killing off our global neighbors.....what a shock!

Oddly the 7 million manufacturing jobs lost since 1980, the ones that have faded away along with the middle class, were the kind of jobs the REPUBLICANS seemed to care litttle about. In fact the REPUBLICANS actually rewarded companies for shipping many of these 7 million jobs overseas by endorsing tax loopholes for them to do so. Efforts didn't stop there however, the same REPUBLICAN ECONOMIC COMBATANTS used the filibuster to block DEMOCRATIC attempts to end these insane tax policies.

So the question remains, why in hell aren't the tanks being built overseas for a buck an hour like everything else? It's a question for the REPUBLICANS and those who vote for them to answer.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 9 years 39 weeks ago
#17

If it's one of those vampire pumps like Cheney uses, then I say it doesn't count as a real heart. I wonder if the Canadian health care system even covers those? What do you think DAnneMarc?

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 39 weeks ago
#18

Wow tuff crowd. Yes the Canadian health care system does cover the vampire pumps but because health care is rationed here, the wait times are so long no one lived long enough to get one.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 39 weeks ago
#19

Kend ~ That story totally flies in the face of the available evidence. :Please explain why despite SocialIzed medicine your particular Vampire pump still seems to be working? That would really help anything else you say seem more plausible.

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 39 weeks ago
#20

Dmark you are going to understand what I am talking about soon. Obama care is just around the corner. Your taxes are going to skyrocket and you will get in the same line as I do for your health care and wait for a year to see a specialist and you will be bitching just like me. The sad part is the wealthy will get the same health care they have for less because like Canadians they will just leave and get care somewhere else.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 39 weeks ago
#21

chuckle8 #12: But Grover Norquist only wants to cut the budget for social programs and wants to increase the budget for military spending. Grover Norquist is a very big part of the problem.

And you may argue that increasing the budget for military spending creates jobs and you would be correct...it would create jobs for some..but only for those who are producing more tools for killing people. And the more tools for killing people you have in your inventory...the more apt some politician is going to make the case for invading someone.

But increasing the budget for social programs would increase jobs that are not geared to creating more death and destruction. Social program money would be spent on needed and useful products and that would create lots of jobs for those who produce those useful products.

Yes, that Reinhart-Rogland study was a scam and it was used by right-wingers to make a case for reducing the budget for social programs...they weren't interested in reducing the budget for the Pentagon. And the way they were playing the Democrats they would have destroyed the social programs and kept and increased Pentagon spending.

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 39 weeks ago
#22

Tara T - Thanks for your input. If I felt there was no way to defend myself, should I just throw the doors open and let whatever may happen, happen? I am 6'3'' and weigh in at 215lb. At age sixty I am in better shape than most forty year old males of similar physical characteristics. I am very aggressive and can handle most people if challenged and I will not bore you with situations I have encountered. True, if someone gets in and over powers me I guess I am a dead man, because that is what it will take to stop me. I have an ax handle behind my front door and my master bedroom door and I have practiced using them. My revolver is within a 15 second reach at most times and I keep a 20 gauge double barreled stage gun (20 in. barrel) loaded with 00 shot. I use silver tip hollow points and usually use a .38 spl+P load, so it will do the most damage with one shot and will not leave the perp's body. Whether walking the street (and I carry a 5 in. hunting knife) I always expect the worst so as to be on guard in the event something may take place where I am not armed with fire power. When confronted I expect the worse and would try to eliminate the perp(s) in any situation. I do not believe in just hurting someone who poses a threat in any manner. My daughter often mentions she wishes I would be more mellow and less aggressive. I choose to be excessively aggressive by nature and perceive the world as a threat beyond my doors. I am prepared mentally and emotionally to eliminate anyone who confronts me or my family. If someone harmed my daughter or my grandson I would bail them out if arrested, to eliminate them because I have no faith in the judicial system. The police are a reactionary force which only responds to a situation 95% of the time and only stops a crime from happening before hand approximately 5% of the time, so therefore I will do my best to permanently eliminate any person or persons who attempt to do harm. This may sound like some macho crap to you, but I feel in order to be safe and safeguard my loved ones, a person has to be able to do whatever it takes. I suppose I could be called somewhat paranoid, but I would rather be ready in the event of a situation then be caught off guard. But, you are right about a scenario where someone is over whelmed and caught off guard in a home invasion. Just a thought I would like to share, predators always look for the weakest prey to kill. Never allow yourself to seen as the weakest prey and you may just stop the incidence before it happens. War has taught me one important lesson under stress, never hesitate to react and kill before being killed yourself. Those victims who owned guns and were overwhelmed usually hesitated before imitating any action, which is something that will never happen in my situation. I have no intention of becoming part of the armed population who fails to react and therefore becomes a statistic. If I was to accept your ideology I would not bother to arm myself or do my best to eliminate any perp that threatens my family or me. Why do you won a semi-auto handgun if you do not think it would protect you? I would actually like to hear your response. If you think the police will protect you and yours, you have a terrible surprise ahead of you in the event you are assaulted and you could have prevented it by not allowing yourself to see your situation as helpless against someone who wants to invade your home. K.W. I really did not have any intention of even commenting on Hartmann's blog today, but I felt I needed to express myself in regard to your statements to DeAnneMarc and myself. As most people who follow Hartmann's site knows, I am rather aggressive and somewhat of an agitator in our discussions. Also, I live in what is called the South bay and it is a middleclass neighborhood with very little crime, it is just that my experience in the military has taught me to never be caught off guard.

DeAnneMarc - Did your response say if you were raped? I thought you said you were a male? I do not mean to be so inquisitive, and I understand if you want your info to be none revealing as to who you are. Palin feels the same way, I am not concerned if someone knows my identity or location, as I have stated it in past comments. If someone wants a confrontation with me because they do not like what I have to say, my response is bring it on. I will not live my life as a victim.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 39 weeks ago
#23

DAnnemarc: #14: Right on! You can see what is happening but it sure looks like not many others are. The stigma of "conspiracy theory" turns off a lot of people...cognitive dissonance. Just turn the head and pretend it's not there...maybe it will go away.

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 39 weeks ago
#24

The very best way to solve the budget crisis is simply to cut all social programs, including Medicare, Medicaid, H.U.D., cut Social Security by 60% and stop all welfare programs, end food stamps and programs that aid the poor. If we stop all medical programs except for those who can afford the most expensive plans, eventually we will get rid of the elderly, poor and disabled in our country. Of course we will have to keep some healthcare programs that the workers buy themselves in order to have enough drones to keep the wealthy with enough cheap labor to continue to keep profits coming in for the wealthy Americans. Like I said, before long we will be rid of those pesky poor people and those that are ill will fade away and we can wait for the disabled to eventually die off and no more questions about raising taxes, because we won't need them any longer for those frivolous social programs the people need here in the good ole' U.S. of A.. Or, we could just ship them off to Canada, I understand with the exception of Kend, they take pretty good care of their people...K.W.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 39 weeks ago
#25
Quote ken ware:
I suppose I could be called somewhat paranoid, but I would rather be ready in the event of a situation then be caught off guard.

Thank you, Mr. Ware! That makes both of us! But, I agree with everything else you said. I fully agree that a person cannot expect, or hope, that someone else is going to protect you. You have to be prepared to do it yourself!
There are a lot of very bad people out there who could very well take your life, or that of your loved ones, in an instant. The police only get there after the the murder. You can't shoot someone unless it is in self-defense, not just because they are in your yard, or even in your house...but if they have a weapon, coming at you, you have to protect yourself. If you don't have a firearm, unless you are an martial arts expert, you can just kiss your behind goodbye. And with the terrible economy, people losing any means of support, things will get a lot more violent from very desperate people. You won't be able to reason with them...they will kill you if you don't kill them first (in self-defense, of course). I'm not a lawyer, but I believe that in most states you still have the right to protect yourself.

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 39 weeks ago
#26

ken w my money is on you buddy. I know you can take care of yourself and others at your age no problem. It is the 85% of the youth I am worried about they need the government to look after them In every way.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 39 weeks ago
#27

Ken's "Modest Proposal" ala Jonathan Swift. Yeah, or just like Cannibal Mary in Josephus' Jewish Wars...eat our own children. Maybe that's what the Republicans want us to do..that would solve a lot of problems...huh? Roast baby! Yummy!

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 39 weeks ago
#28

Palin- I keep trying to turn my head and pretend you will give up on your paranoid conspiracy theories, but you just keep coming back! Any other suggestions? I wish I was as intelligent as you seem to be and then I could get rid of this damn, "cognitive dissonance" problem! Your theories do not turn me off, they keep me laughing every time you print them.... keep them coming! K.W. Have a good night, I am not going to start exchanging ideas on this subject tonight!!

Dave Wentz's picture
Dave Wentz 9 years 39 weeks ago
#29

Thom,

Yes, all the sequester across the board cuts are devastating for sure. The one that truly amazes me that it has received no recognition in the media to date is the Veteran's Administration's cuts. My father in law is a WWII vet and had been receiving great and beneficial treatment at the VA Martinez, CA. facility. Let's face it, the VA's across the country are in an uphill battle with a sharp increase in cases and limited staffing and now with across the board cuts, the situation has gone from "struggling to provide" to "extremely frustrating and close to burned out". If you could please shine some much needed light on this situation, it would be greatly appreciated. Not just for my father in law, but for all Vets that are and have been struggling to get some much needed and deserved help for the services they gave to their country.

Thanks so much for the work you do Thom,

Dave Wentz

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 39 weeks ago
#30

Kend - I know I am lacking in the humor department, but my comment's about cutting all those programs was a damn joke!! I actual feel the exact opposite of those ideas. We need to scrap Sequestration, raise taxes on the super wealthy and take care of our poor, elderly and disabled! God, (that is just an expression DeAnne) I really need to take lessons in sarcasm if you think I was being sincere on those ideas about cutting the Social Security and Social Programs!! And if you’re not Canadian, your government will not do squat to help people in your country...I really need to take lessons in how to tell jokes and make sarcastic remarks...K.W.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 39 weeks ago
#31

Ken: It's good to laugh! Glad to be of service. Laughing actually reverses aging....but that's just another conspiracy theory the people with cognac distillance disease swear by.

Time for another coffee enema and another couple of glasses of grasshopper juice! If I have an intruder and can't get my gun fast enough at least I'll be able to slime the intruder.

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 39 weeks ago
#32

Palin - That was a damn joke about cutting all those programs, I was being sarcastic. I think we need to stop Sequestration, raise taxes on the wealthiest and keep all the social programs I said we need to cut!!I guess that will be the last time I try to be funny on this site!! K.W. Good Grief !!

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 39 weeks ago
#33

Palin - With the exception of the remote controlled aircraft, I am starting to wonder if you might just be right about the nano-thermit and the rest of the theory!! And that is all I am saying to night, good night....K.W.

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 39 weeks ago
#34

No ken w I was talking about you defending yourself. I just think you could do it better at your age then most young people today. I know where you stand on the sequester issues.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 39 weeks ago
#35

Ken: Yes, I knew right off that you were trying to be funny and I took it as such...that's why I wrote what I did.

Jonathan Swift's (full title) "A Modest Proposal-For Preventing the Children of Poor People In Ireland From Being a Burden to Their Parents or Country, and For Making Them Beneficial to The Public" whew! quite a title, eh? He wrote it in 1729. It was supposed to be a joke (or rather, a cutting sarcasm against the wealthy Brits who were starving the Irish during the Potato Famine).

It was a literary piece that Swift used to shock the selfish and greedy British gentry into looking at themselves in a mirror of humanity. For many who began to read it were shocked at such a proposal until they realized that Swift was joking...but in a very serious way. It sent the message as he intended.

Some people just have to be shocked into reality....make them see themselves for what they really are. But, if I may be so bold, are you not a descendant of Ireland? You may already know about this literary masterpiece and I may just be preaching to the choir.

I would not expect too many people to be very much aware (no pun intended) of the Cannibal Mary story though. That takes place during another famine during the Seige of Jerusalem. The Romans probably had a few sniggles over that one at their toga parties...."whoever eateth the flesh of my flesh will have everlasting life"...or something like that. In this case, it was more of an inside joke of the rich and powerful against their rebellious subjects. Hey, but that conspiracy theory is ancient history. Joseph Atwill goes into the story in his book Caeser's Messiah--The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 9 years 39 weeks ago
#36

Kend says...."No one says thank you to the ones who pay".......I hope you understand just who the "ones" that need to be thanked are. They're known as the working class, they work for a fraction of what their worth, thus enriching those immoral enough to cash in on their desperation. Of course our govt., the same one bought and paid for by the thieves immoral enough to cash in, looks the other way as this crime takes place. Those who you think are paying all of the tax are doing it with stolen money, money that should have made it into working class paychecks, pensions, and health care coverage.

Find me an employer paying a minimun wage of $21/hour and I'll thank him for any tax he paid on his income.

Tara T's picture
Tara T 9 years 39 weeks ago
#37

DanneMarc~ I see, I misunderstood. Well, in that case, that's exactly what I try to do. Preventative measures. I prefer not to look like a victim to those that are looking. Overly aware I guess. And I understand your point of living to a degree. I grew up just outside of Atlanta -- that's a fairly unruly place at times. And I'm a 32 year old female, so I know I still have a bit of fight in me as well haha.

Also, I don't disagree about gun ownership. It's not for everyone - and those that aren't comfortable with them should definitely take another path. There are so many. I fully recognize that I own a glock simply as a security blanket. I'm a southern girl afterall; it's hard to shake off all the learned conservative notions that I have. Though, I do try. I'd hope that I'd get to use it with a home invasion, but I know it's likely I wouldn't. Also, that would be the only time, because I don't carry it. That's a dangerous deal.

I wish I didn't know that little old lady story. What a useless human being. there's not much worse than those that get off on hurting those that can't protect themselves.

And, yes, I know must of the tricks. I've heard the key trick since I was a little girl. I'll tell you something though; I'll pass on ever owning pepper spray again. The only person that ended up with my pepper spray in their eyes was me. That was an unfortunate event. It really does burn! It also speaks on what it can mean to be a careless gun owner.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 39 weeks ago
#38

Ken Ware ~ Yes I am a man and yes I did mention a scenario where I was potentially raped. Do you ever miss an opportunity for juvenile ridicule? That was the suggested scenario by Tara T, who I was responding to and not my own idea. And yes, it is possible for another man to break into your house and rape you at gunpoint. Not likely, but possible. No, I don't spend a lot of time worrying about rape. LOL Except by the IRS.

However, a physical assault in ones home--or anywhere else--is very possible. Rape is simply one form of a physical assault. My goal in this post was to offer effective alternatives to self defense that don't involve carrying a gun. Neither I, nor the Oakland Police Officer I spoke with believed it a good idea for a Senior to rely on a gun especially in a physical attack. If surprised, and they will be, if out muscled, and they will be, they will lose the weapon quickly. You see, I have learned through observation and listening that typical thugs don't like a challenge. They always like to have the overwhelming advantage in a confrontation. They would probably avoid you or I unless there were two of them and/or they had a gun. Women on the other hand, especially Seniors, are the prey of choice for the typical thug.

First thing one has to do is to always be aware of their surroundings. In a purely physical confrontation a woman willing to fight back and get in a good initial hit has a chance of scaring the thug away. They don't want or expect a fight. Ripping a hole in their cheek with your keys, blinding them with pepper spray, or blasting them in the face with Easy Off Oven Spray could save you a beating, a robbery, and maybe your life. Pulling out a gun or a knife can get you killed. Of course, if the predator is armed, the best course of action is to cooperate fully.

Two other things should be mentioned. Only fight back if you're capable of running away. That's always the first and final step in officially recommended defense. Also, always try not to attract an attack. Crooks target people who they think have money on them. Avoid carrying large brand name purses, expensive clothes, shoes or jewelry. Keep your wallets and credit cards concealed. Keep your keys, pepper spray and Easy Off in easy reach.

Case in point, my father walked the worst streets of Oakland his whole life without a gun, a can of Easy Off, or any other means of self-defense. He was never attacked. He could always take care of himself except for the last 20 years of his life where he was hobbled with arthritis. He used a walker or two canes to get around and could be knocked over easily by bumping into him. No one ever tried. My father used to dress in tattered clothing. On the street he looked like a homeless person. People would constantly ask if they could help him out; and once a van pulled over and several well dressed men gave him a bag of money. Of course he refused it. LOL The point here is simple, dress like you don't have any money and people seeking money will leave you alone. Dress like you have money and guess what, people will notice.

I hope someone benefits from this advice and no one gets hurt! There is no sure way to avoid a violent attack. The best deterrent of all is never to be alone. Thugs don't like resistance, crowds and witnesses. Remember, your most powerful defense weapon is your brain--use it.

Be very careful with Easy Off Oven Cleaner and read all the directions before carrying it around. PLEASE, ONLY USE IT AS A LAST RESORT TO SAVE YOUR LIFE! (Or to clean your oven.)

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 9 years 39 weeks ago
#39

How about the MRI on the brain? You call it spending, and I call it investing. If you cherry pick the data and make a few errors on a spreadsheet a 5% cut may make sense.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 9 years 39 weeks ago
#40

I totally agree with what you say even if I don't believe in the thermite of the WTC.

My main point, let us consider something that is possible even with a corporatist owned congress.

Spending more to get the economic machine rolling (which unfortunately includes the military-industrial complex) will help to rid us of the military industial complex, IMHO. With economy rolling people will not be so desparate for a job anywhere, e.g. in a tank factory in Ohio.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 9 years 39 weeks ago
#41

I keep forgetting to put a name on my replies. My message #41 was for DAnneMarc.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 9 years 39 weeks ago
#42

I assume everyone knows that the Boston bomber could not find a job in the last 6 months.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 39 weeks ago
#43

chuckle8 ~ Your points are well taken. I think I agree--with everything except defense spending. IMHO We have spent enough on defense already to find that the only return on that money is war. That's not what I consider a smart return on investment.

With that, I think it important we define some terms here:

SPENDING - To expend, consume, pass, or waste.

INVESTING - To expend money with the expectation of receiving a profit.

When we build a tank, bomb or missile it is called defense SPENDING because it is money wasted without ever having a hope of receiving a profit. Creating a job? Creating the job is a further waste of the money. War is not a profit it is only a further waste of money and resources. Putting money into the defense industry is a worse investment than flushing it down the toilet. Always has been! Always will be!

INVESTMENTS in our infrastructure, transportation system, energy production, maintenance of national resources, initiatives of peace, commerce, small business assistance programs, health, and education not only increase the immediate value of the nation and create long term good paying jobs and careers; but, in the long run offer the potential for regular large profits on the investment.

My friend, I don't think we are too far apart on this issue. I have no problem investing money in this country or anything else that turns a tidy profit while serving humanity. My problem is money completely wasted. Defense spending is the biggest waste of money there is. Listen to President Eisenhower's farewell address. He laid this fact out quite clearly. Please don't suggest we continue making this tragic and costly mistake. Money is too vital of a resource to see it go up in flames. The only thing the defense industry produces is the violent loss of life. This is no way to serve humanity.

Tara T's picture
Tara T 9 years 39 weeks ago
#44

Ken, I'm aware of all these things. Though, I've never been to war, I may be a tad paranoid myself. And you are right, the key is being preventative. And that means, not looking like an easy mark.

I own a handgun because I hope to be able to protect myself and because I know I will not hesitate. That in no way reflects the reality of it though and the statistics of actually being able to if someone decides they are going to kill me. That was my point, I have a plan, but so does the attacker. I'm not going to lie to myself about any part of the situation when the facts are, in a home invasion scenerio, the victor is usually the invader no matter the readiness or training at hand. I think it's a good thing to acknowledge the likelyhood and not grow some crazy superman complex -- makes me that much more ready.

Btw, men are raped, surely you know that. He said that in response to what I said.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 39 weeks ago
#45

chuckle8 ~ After rereading your previous post a few times, I think I see what you're saying about getting the economy moving again. Makes sense; but, I still have to disagree. Giving your lunch to a hungry dog to keep it from eating you might postpone the inevitable till it gets hungry again. But then you're still stuck with the same dilemma--this time you're starving as well. Best to eat your own lunch and face the Beast at full strength with a full stomach. IMHO.

Here's another idea! If you're so concerned about the tank factory workers why not just eliminate the defense industry altogether and send the surplus in tax money directly to the displaced workers. Just eliminate the middleman altogether. Workers still have an income and the economy still gets stimulated. Quite frankly, I'd rather stimulate the economy that way than to have a lot of unnecessary weapons of mass destruction sitting around I can't use.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 39 weeks ago
#46

2950-10K ~ You know it quite frankly amazes me as to how much time and energy people on this blog put into arguing with Kend. He reminds me of a cat toy. A feather or two tied to a string and supported by a stick. Float him around on the floor and look at the Kitties go crazy--just like it was for real prey. Shame they can't find a way to stuff him with a catnip substitute! That might make all the efforts worthwhile! Either case its always a fun game to watch.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 39 weeks ago
#47
Quote DAnnemarc:
... typical thugs don't like a challenge. They always like to have the overwhelming advantage in a confrontation.

Which makes it a very good idea to not only have weapons to use in your own self-defense...but to make sure any potential assailant knows that you would not be an easy prey for them. I don't know...maybe post a sign on your house that your house is not only protected by a fierce pit bull but also a 357 Magnum...or something similar. Of course, if you advertise like that then they might just break in while you are gone and steal your weapons. So, I think it is a much better idea for everyone to be well armed (ie: stop the government from trying to take them all away from us) and then potential assailants wouldn't have a clue as to who was armed and who wasn't.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 39 weeks ago
#48

But who needs robbers breaking into your home to rob you when there are so many robbers (merchants) robbing us.

I just went up to a car dealership to buy two new headlamps ( not the bulbs...the plastic reflector&lens) because mine was all scratched and hazed up and there was not much light coming out. I had bought a restorer kit some time ago and tried that but getting good results just wasn't in the cards even after lots of sanding with those little pads and lubricant.

So, the dealership parts department only had one, they'd have to order the other one. And it was going to cost $240 for each and they would charge $125 labor for each headlamp installation....over $700! $125 labor for each?!! All it takes is to unscrew the 3 wing nuts that hold the assemblies in and you can remove/replace in a matter of just a few minutes. Yes, the beams would have to be re-aimed..but that is also very easy and quick to do.

That year 2000 model car was probably not even worth $700 any more. I had thought of going to a car junk yard but I thought I'd give one more try in restoring the head lamps.

I used a 1000 grit, 1200 grit, then a 2000 grit wet or dry sandpaper that I had on hand with the liquid "lubricant" in that kit (but could have just used water) and then I used a tiny felt buffing wheel coated with jewelers rouge mounted on a little Dremmel tool to give it a final buffing. This cleared it up so well that it almost looked like new. Then I rubbed it with the wax swab, from the kit, for a final coat of protection.

On my second headlamp, I saved some rubbing labor by mounting those sandpapers to a normal 7" buffer.

Now, that's the way to keep from being robbed by robbers disguised as legit businesses.

The other day, I saved about $200 by repairing my microwave. Those darn microwave ovens often have a problem with their door switches.

I had a smaller microwave oven, that I had for years. And a few months ago I had problems with the door switches and finally junked it, after stealing the magnetron (I like the magnets) and other parts, I junked it (recycled, of course). But, now that I think about it...I could probably have built a real PDK (portable dog killer) with that magnetron. I would have had to design and build a waveguide to direct the microwave energy to the target though. HOT DOG! ;-} I love dogs...they're very tasty! But seriously folks...it's the big, mean and very viciously scary dogs I would go after...all the other cute and cuddly smaller ones deserve to live.

So, anyway, I bought a bigger microwave oven and was ticked off that after a few months I started to have the same kind of problem with the door switches. I tore the MW apart and found the problem. I ohmed out the switches making sure they were not bad. Then found that the switch assembly (3 switches on a plastic mount assembly) was mounted on a very flimsy piece of tin panel that would flex out of shape every time the door would close...so that one of the switches would not activate when the door was closed. I drilled a hole into the front, after opening the door, and put a screw in to hold the switch assembly solidly against the inside front wall which kept the switch assembly from moving. Works perfectly now!

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 9 years 39 weeks ago
#49

Palindromedary -- About the MWv thing. I have a panasonic. After about a month it quit working. Since it was in warranty, I took it to an authorized repair guy to fix it for free. He fixed it and said there is switch in the door which is operated from the latch on the door. The problem was the connection between door latch and the switch was a flat piece of plastic which borke.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 9 years 39 weeks ago
#50

DAnneMarc -- My key point was what can we possibly have happen. I believe the progressives entry into process is the fraud perpetuated by the Reinhart-Rougland scam. Now, progressives can say we should not even consider austerity. We need jobs, so please fix our infrastructure. The repugs previous resistance to fixing the infrastructure was the deficit.

To expand on your dog analogy, we now (due to the scam) have two lunches. I suggest we have no option other than to feed the predatory dog. However, we do now have the option to give a lunch to the dog catcher. When he is fed, we can hope the dog is history. Beware, I remember from high school English (55 years ago) that analogies are a hinderance to clear thinking. I believe, however, they are great assistance in understanding a problem.

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