We can't give in to the Republican list of demands.

After years of complaining that Democrats haven't passed a budget, now Republicans are refusing to negotiate at all on the Senate's recently passed spending plan. Under regular order, the two chambers should come together to find a compromise between the Democratic budget in the Senate and the Republican austerity plan in the House.

However, in typical GOP fashion, Republicans won't come to the negotiating table unless they get a so-called “framework,” that they say would make a compromise more likely. But, that “framework” is just a demand that all new tax revenues are off the table. That is not compromise. That is not negotiation. That is not how Congress is supposed to operate. That is Republican economic terrorism.

In an attempt to secure a budget, President Obama and Democratic leaders offered cuts to some of our most sacred social programs – angering many on the left. And a total $2.5 trillion in spending cuts have already been imposed on our nation. But that's not enough for Republicans. Their idea of compromise is getting everything they want... and they'll continue to act like petulant children until they do.

We can't let President Obama and the Democrats be held hostage any more. This is our nation. If anyone gets to have a list of demands – we do. We can demand that President Obama takes Medicare and Social Security off the table. We can demand that Republicans stop their economic terrorism. And we must demand that this broken Congress starts serving the people who put them in office.


pugla46's picture
pugla46 10 years 5 weeks ago

More proof for Thom's idea for stable societies, the matriarchal system; "The ones who made the decisions for the community were the grandmothers. There were societies of grandmothers. Colonizing has forced people to forget these ways. There are still some of us who were taught the old way. I learned from my grandmother. Other people didn't have that opportunity." White Face, a Lakota elder and great-grandmother of nine


Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

Well, now, seems to me that since Obama has the power to lethally terminate terrorists in this country....maybe he could terminate a bunch of economic terrorists on the Republican side of Congress! I'd LMAO if he did! But, he doesn't have the balls to do that even if he was a real Democrat instead of a Republican disguised as a Democrat. Come on, Obama, use those drones where it will make you the hero of the majority of Americans instead of a villain.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

So, now that it is very apparent that the Republicans are not going to "play ball" isn't it about time for all of the Democrats to reverse the damage they have done...damage they have done by giving in to the Republicans? If they can make laws that taketh away they can make laws that restore what they tooketh away.

I believe that most of the country now realizes (if they don't they are pretty stupid and ignorant) that the Republicans will always represent the wealthy to the extent that they will commit treason against the majority of Americans who are not so wealthy. The Democrats have to be kept in line as well because many of them are sell-outs, also.

So, if all of the Democrats, including Obama, don't reverse all of the damage they have done, after realizing that the Republicans just will not compromise, then they are no better than the Republicans. And all of their rhetoric is total BS.

These two parties work for the same wealthy people...they are just messing with our heads in trying to blame the other party while, in the end, gaining ground for the wealthy while losing it for the rest of us.

The goal of the Democrats, it seems, is not to really compromise, but to blame the Republicans for not compromising which, after all of the name calling and blaming the other side, results in getting just what the wealthy ruling elite want in the first place. Smoke and mirrors! An illusion of democracy but a reality of plutocracy!

It is like a snake swallowing it's prey. The snake's teeth and jaws are a mechanism for drawing the prey into the snake's mouth and down it's throat and never the reverse. I'd say the lower teeth and jaw are like the Republicans and the upper teeth are the Democrats. And they are swallowing us whole...slowly...but surely!

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 10 years 5 weeks ago

Actually, the Iriquois society was not a matriarchy but a more equitable society - and still classed by most contemporary social scientists as ultimately male dominated. I, personally, am an "equity feminist" or "equality feminist". I believe in an ideal of equality between male and female and reject all supremicisms - even those by formerly oppressed people (although I find those more tolerable, morally, than supremicisms held by the origional oppressors). Most social scientists reject the idea that there had ever been matriarchy or matriarchal civilzation and consider it an invention of radical feminists.

The Lakota were probably the MOST martial and warlike of ALL native North Americans. Under the leadership of Red Cloud and Sitting Bull, they were the ONLY Native Americans to win a war against the United States (Little Big Horn and three other massacres after which the U.S. agreed to sign a treaty they probably had no intention of keeping). The colonial attitude of the white settlers was, in fact, one in which they considered the Native Americans' equity between men and women and their communal, classless, propertyless way of life savagery and tried to impose "civilized" systems of patriarchy and private property by force.

I subscribe to the Marx/Engels view of political economic evolution that holds that men and women lived as equals in the classless, egalitarian, preagricultural societies we ALL arose from. With the domestication of plants and animals came class oppression as the principle of domestication was soon applied to other human beings resulting in different forms of slavery as well as the subjugation of women.

There is the view that, before patriarchal religion, the animisms of preagricultrural societies (Wiccanism in Europe) were very female influenced and oriented - if not female centered - giving a primacy for women and influenced society in general in that way but the view is held mainly by modern day adherents to those animistic religions and thus may or may not be true as they may well be biased. But also, the contemporary social scientists may be biased or of some lack of perspicacity. The majority of scientists, of course, once believed the earth was flat. .

neilforte's picture
neilforte 10 years 5 weeks ago

It is time to increase our resolve to defeate as many of these empathy dead Republican congressmen in the up coming elections.work hard tell your friends compain tell your story Too many in the DOP have closed minds

oilartist's picture
oilartist 10 years 5 weeks ago

If only there was a way to get the Republican'ts to listen to reason there might be chance to move towards a meeting of the minds. But they don't listen much less hear.

Somehow we need to find Democratic people to run for Congress and lie to the public during the entire campaign so that the Republican'ts will vote for them and then they can vote the way they really want to.

I don't think they exist.

historywriter's picture
historywriter 10 years 5 weeks ago

"Listening to reason" is not a republican characteristic. They shut out even hearing facts and opinions that don't fit their world view. I believe they literally do not hear different opinions. The research on this shows that listening to facts doesn't change people's minds.

The Big Brain project can't move ahead soon enoough. I'd really like to know what makes some people, repubs and dems, impervious to information, facts, and the consequences of doing, or not doing, something.

PhilipHenderson's picture
PhilipHenderson 10 years 5 weeks ago

Republican members of Congress behave as though they are terrorists. They do not negotiate in good faith, the place "non-negotiable" demands on the table then accuse Democrats of being fascist pigs. Call them out for what they are, they are doing the bidding of their masters. The recent refusal to take even the most sensible gun control measures reveals who their masters are . . . it is not the people who elect them, they only respond to lobbyists and billionaires.

m1tmc's picture
m1tmc 10 years 5 weeks ago

I was recommended here by a liberal friend of which I have many. I'm a conservative conservationist that finds nothing conservative about Dems or Reps putting our environment, economy, or liberties up for sale for the highest bidders, domestic or foreign. That getting off oil, period, domestic or foreign, should be the eventual goal, I have recycled long before it became convenient, and, yet fear government is being bought and sold at an ever increasing rate on both sides of the proverbial aisle. I was told I would find discussion here with an open mind to common sense solutions and that Thom Hartmann would deliver that view. Anyone here should know what I have found, yet I knew when I heard it from my friend, because he was unwittingly spouting the same party line; biased misinformation he was intentionally given here. If we don't start looking for and finding some common ground, instead of being led, shamed, or coerced into corners by special interests and politicians, then we may find out how lucky or unlucky we are to be Americans. Those in a hurry to experience this can leave while it is still a free country. The powers that be are well on their way with the lowest home ownership since the founding of the Community Re-Investment act of 1977. The "actual" unemployment rate exceeding that of the Carter administration and the guys on capital hill, since that time, having contributed to more middle class jobs being sent overseas than we can count. And all we do on so many of these sites is call names and try to sound like we have a real idea of what's happening. Is not hard to recognize spin on both sides of any discussion. It's in the message here and everywhere I look, except maybe Ron Paul. Good luck to you guys.

SHFabian's picture
SHFabian 10 years 5 weeks ago

This is all routine. Certain Dems in office will fake their outrage while ensuring the continued power of the right wing takeover of government. We have been watching this strategy repeated since the 1980s. Guaranteed, no matter what the makeup of Congress, Democrats will continue to ensure the passage of the right wing agenda. Endless pandering to the middle class (while "justifyng" their hatred for the poor) will ensure that the public continues to passively accept whatever those in power decide.

bldegl's picture
bldegl 10 years 5 weeks ago

When Clinton was first elected president, they did the same thing. Not the first republican voted for his budget and told him that he was going to tank the economy. Clinton, to his credit, didn't negotiate with the economic terrorist and didn't offer to cut social security or medicare. In fact, he even raised taxes.Now the Clinton economy is in the history books and the Bush recession is there as well.That should tell you something.
Check out this book: http://bookstore.iuniverse.com/Products/SKU-000618495/Nephilim.aspx


akunard's picture
akunard 10 years 5 weeks ago

Print, Tax, Borrow! Worked well for Japan, Greece, etc.

Has any one read "The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money"? If so where has it ever worked?

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 10 years 5 weeks ago

A total of $2.5 trillion in spending cuts already and then the Democrats offer up cuts to worker funded social programs, fully funded ones at that. I think this is indicative of just how far to the right the Billionaire-bagger Party has yanked our Democratic leaders. Instead of $2.5 trillion in cuts there should have been a return to pre-Reagan tax rates and $2.5 trillion in additional spending on things like infrastructure. We'd be out of this damn Republican depression and their austerity bull would never have taken hold. But noooooo, the Democrats have to play the role of the meek child always cowering in a defensive posture while right wing idiots eat their lunch.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 10 years 5 weeks ago

Print, tax, and borrow works really well when, "We the People," have control over it, as in Democratic Socialism. Problem is, in our current billionaire plutocracy, print, tax, and borrow only works out well for an elite few, the rest of us get screwed.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 5 weeks ago

Palindromedary wrote ~ "I believe that most of the country now realizes (if they don't they are pretty stupid and ignorant) that the Republicans will always represent the wealthy to the extent that they will commit treason against the majority of Americans who are not so wealthy. "

"Pretty stupid and ignorant." Maybe. Your educational tax dollars and dumbing down media at work. But honestly, I think the American people are smarter than you may think. They're just really busy. Wasting their energy busting ass for boss man, some working two jobs just to make ends meet. Many are in debt over their heads and the majority have families to worry about. Most don't have time to read anything; and, many are coping with their situation with self medication. The controlling powers in this country have done quite a good job at taming and controlling the public.

Palindromedary also wrote ~ "It is like a snake swallowing its prey. The snake's teeth and jaws are a mechanism for drawing the prey into the snake's mouth and down it's throat and never the reverse. I'd say the lower teeth and jaw are like the Republicans and the upper teeth are the Democrats. And they are swallowing us whole...slowly...but surely!"

Interesting analogy, indeed--especially coming from a confirmed Atheist. I suppose you are aware that a snake is the metaphor used to describe Satan all over the Bible. Sorry! Let's not open that can of worms again. LOL

Slightly off topic, I closely scrutinized that paper from the Chemical Physical Journal about super thermite in the dust at the WTC. Quite frankly, it boggles my mind that it was published in 2009 and I am just learning about it Monday April, 2013. That's 4 years. If this article has any validity--and so far it seem very valid--how does it get by without media attention? Where is the outcry for further investigations? Where is the subsequent inquiries about who planted all this explosive paint?

I did some of my own investigation and found there is a disturbing number of Stock Market transfers that took place just before the attacks. There is also a purchase of a fortune of insurance by the owner of the WTC just prior to the attacks. In addition, purchases of defense industry stocks skyrocketed just before the attack. If the material was discovered in 2000 and immediately made available to every branch of the military, who on the inside may have participated in this event. There are so many valid suspects that it's almost impossible to place blame without a thorough official and public investigation.

My question to you, since obviously your insight and time spent scrutinizing this matter is far beyond mine, who or what could have planted that paint and been responsible for the murder of all those innocent people? If you don't want to answer that question, I understand. Don't worry about it.

Howard Laverne Stewart's picture
Howard Laverne ... 10 years 5 weeks ago

I am guessing that we should do away

with the electoral college or whatever it takes to

get accurate represntation according to vote

majority, If all else fails, go on a nationwide strike, march and absolutely no

purchases of any kind. Get together and stand and stay together. Occupy on a Grand

scale! Love You Hollywood Howie

Kend's picture
Kend 10 years 5 weeks ago

It seems all Democrats are disappointed when the people they elected don't live up to there promises. The reason they can't is, when they get elected and are responsible for paying the bills, there isn't enough money. President Obama was elected twice telling you all they have to do is tax the rich, but the fact is the rich don't have enough money. If you took it all from them they couldn't pay the bills for a year. So now Obama and the rest of the Dems s that sold you a bill of goods are dangerously close to going down in history of bankrupting the United States. Obama now is thinking about his legacy and it really is shaping up to be a disaster. The truth is starting to rear it's ugly head about The real cost of Obama care, the debt is still increasing by trillions, and the economy still sucks, one in five are still out of work. The hundreds of billions you spent on green energy hasnt reduced green house gases by, well anything. But I guess you can look at the bright side everyone gets free birth control. Sorry, Women get free birth control Men still have to pay for theirs.

ruckus's picture
ruckus 10 years 5 weeks ago

They are serving the people who put them in office. That's the problem.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

DAnnemarc: You are right, of course! There are a lot of very intelligent people that are so busy trying to raise a family, work their jobs, and just don't have the time to spend on doing much research. In addition, many may not want to risk losing their jobs by developing anything but a spirit of "teamwork" and making their wealthy employers even wealthier.

Those of us who are retired don't have to worry much about that and we have plenty of time to spend reading stuff. Since they are already trying to take away Social Security and Medicare we feel like we are already being attacked and are really in a war with those that are doing this to us. And it is not the very well off who are stupid by voting for Republicans...it's just the ones that are not so well off and are being harmed by the Republicans (and the Democrats who really aren't Democrats) that vote Republican and should know better. But then, with Democrats like the ones we have, who needs enemies (Republicans)? Those turn-coats are screwing us too!

Yeah, snakes have been seen as real demons by a lot of people and many people believe that if you dream of snakes it means that you will soon get sick. I suppose if you truly believe in that idea...your mind just might make your body sick. I know, I hate snakes myself..but I could pick them up...very carefully. But really, if there weren't any snakes, we'd be overrun by lots of mice...and that would probably bring on the Bubonic Plague. So now I feel bad for having killed a rattle snake a number of months ago. But, I would have hated even more if any of the children, that play in that area sometimes, would have gotten bitten.

Yes, the nano-themite can be painted on a surface when wet and it is very safe because it is not easily detonated when wet which might be part of the reason why they used it instead of a lot of normal explosives (which I believe they also used...but didn't have to use as much as they would have without nano-thermite). Nano-themite is even fairly safe...safer than normal explosives...when dry or in a solid form...like in a shaped charge...and it takes "special matches" to ignite nano-thermite. And those "special matches" can be controlled by a remote signal.

Normally, when they demolish a building using normal explosives...the building is not full of people when they install the explosives..and they plan to do the demolition right away....so it was very important not to have an accidental discharge before the time was right.

And also, I don't think painting the nano-thermite on the beams was done anyway. Nano-thermite, in another form like a putty, can be shaped around a vertical beam, in a diagonal fashion, to concentrate the explosive force so that it cuts the beams diagonally just like they do in a normal demolition (except they don't use nano-thermite in normal demolitions...just normal explosives). Nano-thermite is something our government has a lot of and, being high tech, costs a lot. Again, thermite has been around a long time...nano-thermite discovered just about 10 years before 911). NIST knows all about nano-thermite..having done copious studies on it...too bad they chose to completely ignore it in their "911 investigations".

Photos exist of these massive vertical core beams sticking up into the air and the diagonal cut was just so obviously there. Some tried to argue that the clean up crews could have cut it that way with a torch (they even suggest that the cleanup crews might have used nano-thermite--which is pretty ridiculous) to remove beams...but that would not make any sense at all because there would be absolutely no reason to spend all that extra cutting a much longer diagonal than a much shorted straight across cut just to remove beams. Those diagonal cuts are only done when demolition teams make them in order to bring the buildings down in their footprints...and that is exactly what happened.

Yes, I know there were an unusually high number of stock market transaction...well of course, it seems quite a few people knew what was going to happen...even little kids in school across the river told their teachers that those buildings wouldn't be there tomorrow. Certain important people were warned not to fly on that day.

And yes, I knew about the insurance that the owner, Silverstein, took out on the buildings just weeks prior to 911. But did you also know that the WTC towers had a really big problem that would have cost Silverstein a fortune to fix? The buildings were full of asbestos and it would have been very, very costly in removing the asbestos. But also having to keep the people out of the buildings while they did the clean up...which would have taken a very long time. That problem was solved in about 8-11 seconds the approximate time it took for the buildings to fall...near free-fall speed) on 911.

So when did they plant all of this nano-thermite and, perhaps, conventional explosives? For several weeks prior to 911 the office workers could hear lots of construction noises..banging, shaking, etc..they even closed off some floors and no one was allowed to go to those floors. The supposed excuse was that they were doing a rewiring job...yeah, I'll bet! They even told the office workers in the whole building to not come to work on a few days due to "construction".

So, since building 7 was not even hit by a plane and it came down in it's own footprint, at near the speed of free fall...just like a demolition...and Silverman, himself, may have slipped in saying "they decided to pull it"..meaning, perhaps, demolish the building...one has to ask oneself....how could they have sent in a demolition team into a burning building to place charges in the approximately 6 hours before it collapsed. It takes days or weeks to set up a demolition. The only way the building could have been demolished is by having already prepped it with explosives. Remember, never in the history of steel framed buildings has there ever been a complete building collapse right to the ground like that, planes or no planes, and buildings that had much hotter and longer burning fires. On 911 there were 3 of them...all coming down just like a demolition..at near free fall speed...and in their own foot prints.

These traitors had the motive, the means, and the opportunity. And their official conspiracy theory is so full of holes that I just don't understand how anyone can believe it! The only probability is that people just don't want to know the truth! The truth? You can't handle the truth!

Kend's picture
Kend 10 years 5 weeks ago

"What happened to it" when you spend more than you make and you borrow to cover it year after year the percentage of what you bring in that goes to debt service grows you have less to spend on the good stuff like the social system because all the money goes to pay the interest. Then you go bankrupt because no ozone will lend you money. Just like what happened to Greece.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 10 years 5 weeks ago

You make a lot of leaps, Kend. I can do that too - with much more plausibility. Obama breaks his campaign promises because it's not as easy as it looks. He has to deal with a viciously obstinate obstructionist congress as well as trecherous and powerful bussiness organizations. That's not to mention the simple phenomena of the vested interests of a governing official being different from those of those of one running for election or those of the people. Just as the vested interests of an insurgent revolutionary seeking to overthrow the status quo are different from those of one who has already succeeded in doing so and who is now of the ruling party and thus finds himself replicating the tyrranny he just unseated. That's why Occupy Wall Street was leaderless and why you never trust a politcian. They always sell you out.

As to the money to pay for a good social system, it was here before the question is, "What happened to it?" or, more precisely, "Who stole it and where did they stash it?". But we have a pretty good idea.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 10 years 5 weeks ago

What happened to it more recently is the Bush era tax cuts and two unfunded wars. What happened to Greece was Goldman Sachs.

What happened to ours, over a period of many decades, was everything from collusion with business to deindustrialize the United States to willful bankrupting of government with massive deficit spending by the G.O.P. with a combination of tax cuts and gratuitously excessive military spending.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

Kend: The Bush administration stole the Social Security funds (or should I say "borrowed" but never intended to pay back) to pay for his stupid illegal Republican wars. And I don't care how they do it...sell the damn Pentagon and White House to the Chinese for all I care...our government OWES us our Social Security because we all contributed to it all our working lives. You just can't renege on that deal.

The Republicans have been trying all these years to destroy our Social Programs so you are just not credible, Kend, when you try to put the whole thing onto Obama...although, I have to say that Obama didn't exactly pull out of the Middle East like he should have..which would have saved the country from continuing to run up the wasteful military spending the Republicans started. We would all be a hell of a lot safer too...our military would not have murdered so many innocent civilians...creating millions of potential terrorists (blow back). But, of course, if Obama had acted to save our country all that money, and kept us out of all that debt, the Republicans would have ripped him up for being weak and unpatriotic. They probably would have assassinated him by now....just like JFK.

Obama inherited most of the war mongering inertia that may not have been so easy to stop...but I don't think Obama tried very hard. Maybe he was afraid of the assassin's bullet. I'm sure he knows by now how hateful the right-wingers are.

There is just no way you are going to convince any of us that Obama did all of this himself and that it wasn't the Bush administration that was the main cause of all this massive debt.

Kend's picture
Kend 10 years 5 weeks ago

please help me out, how is Goldman Sacs responsible for over spending in Greece?

Massive spending by the GOP. Wasn't it Obama that spent a over trillion a year for the last four years?

excessive military spending. Wasn't Obama the one who sent 30,000 troops to Afganistan?

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 10 years 5 weeks ago

m1tmc, look past the arcanum and you'll see that we're the same. You agree with me on many things although you slap a "conservative" label on your opinions and I consider the same ones "lefty". I - and I suspect you as well - subscribe to the "old fashioned" and "naturalistic" values placing people over profits, i.e., human needs over corporate greeds. And we both abhor the influence of money in politics.

Keep comin' around, we're a people's democracy movement like Tunisia, Egypt and Tianemen Square more than we're the Bolsheviks. We're the "cowboys and the hippies and the rebels and the yanks", we're America all got together again.

Kend's picture
Kend 10 years 5 weeks ago

Ok Palin, Bush is responsible for some of the debt. So what percentage is Obama responsible for?

You know my take on the Middle East and the wars there. Build keystone for a start and become energy self suffencient in N. America and say goodbye to the Middle East for ever.

I don't think I could convince any Liberal that Obama did anything wrong in his whole life. Time will do that for me though.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago
Quote Michael Hudson in a Counter Punch piece:
Goldman Sachs "helped Greece conceal the rise in public debt, by mortgaging assets in a convoluted derivatives deal....so Greece’s obligation appeared as a cross-currency swap rather than as a debt. The government used off-balance-sheet entities and derivatives similar to what Icelandic and Irish banks later would use to indulge in fictitious debt disappearance and an illusion of financial solvency.

The reality, of course, was a virtual debt. The government was obligated to pay Wall Street billions of euros out of future airport landing fees and the national lottery as “the so-called cross currency swaps ? mature, and swell the country’s already bloated deficit.” (Beat Balzli, “How Goldman Sachs Helped Greece to Mask its True Debt,” Der Spiegel, February 8, 2010.

Using derivatives to engineer Enron-style accounting enabled Greece to mask a debt as a market swap based on foreign currency options, to be unwound over ten to fifteen years. Goldman was paid some $300 million in fees and commissions for its aid orchestrating the 2001 scheme.

JPMorgan Chase and other banks helped orchestrate similar deals across Europe, providing “cash upfront in return for government payments in the future, with those liabilities then left off the books.”


Goldman Sachs also helped to screw with Russia's economy as well.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

But Obama is really George Bush of another color. Obama is not a liberal...he's a Libertarian. So, I really don't feel very much like defending him although...he didn't start those illegal wars even though he continued them. So, really, it makes him just as guilty as Bush....and yes, Obama has sent many more troops over to Afghanistan than Bush did but he didn't send any to Iraq. And the numbers that were sent over to Iraq, by Bush, was way more, over a longer time, than Obama's troops have spent in Afghanistan.

Here are some quotes in support of Jeffrey St. Claire and Joshua Frank's book "Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics of Illusion":

"Those who feel that like lemmings they are being led over a cliff would be well-advised not to read this book. They may discover that they are right."—Noam Chomsky

“Jeffrey St. Clair and Joshua Frank have skillfully smoked out the real Barack Obama . . . the technofascist military strategist disguised as a Nobel Peace Laureate, but owned, operated, and controlled by Wall Street, Corporate America, and the Pentagon.”—Thomas H. Naylor, co-author of Affluenza, Downsizing the USA

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

Kend: You're not saying that having a Keystone pipeline running through the US will make us energy self-sufficient are you? If the US was even getting any of that energy (the processed oil will be shipped off to other countries so a few people can get richer) but we would still be relying on Canada...that's not "self-sufficient". Although I'd much rather do business with Canada than all the way from the other side of the earth. You guys up there won't ever go all jihadist on us would you? But, I bet you would if some wanker of a politician started to send drones up there and murder your families. It's obvious that we have some real sicko psychopaths that manage to get into office.

And if we continue to frack we may all be able to keep ourselves warm in the Winter by setting our drinking water on fire. We can always drink Pabst Blue Ribbon made from water they have to ship from China at $100/barrel. But then we'd have to invade China not because we wouldn't give them all those freshly minted "funny money" US dollars...but because they'll be demanding gold. Fool them once and they are not likely to be fooled again.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 10 years 5 weeks ago

You can't be serious, Kend. You'll play dumb or do anything for that $20.

Goldman Sachs set up and brought down Geece the same way it did local and state governments in the U.S. as well as how it brought down the U.S. economy, the selling of bogus derivatves. There are good stories about it in Bloomberg, N.Y.Times, Der Spiegel, etc... as well as Rolling Stone - whose author Thom interviewed, the transcript is here http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2011/11/transcript-thom-hartmann-matt-taibbi-greed-greece-andgoldman-sachs-november-1-2011.

Obama ended the Iraq war and is ending the war in Afghanistan and, more imortantly, he put them on the books. The previous administration (which shall remain nameless) kept them off the books.

That accounts for a vast majority of the debt. You can probably thank the obstructionist congress for the rest.

Now I'm going to bed, I'll get back with you tomorrow afternoon.

ptg0's picture
ptg0 10 years 5 weeks ago

This is all theater. Neither party wants to pass a budget because they are hiding something.

Obama is a failure. His "look forward, not backward" was code to tell the political criminals that "anything goes". They are more interested in shop lifters than the bush crime family. They are concerned that people are going to wake up, thats why they insist we need new gun laws yet allow the banks and mortgage companies to continue to operate just as they have since clinton deregulated them.

Research the SS POET. The "government" is nothing more than a lying, criminal organization.

Kend's picture
Kend 10 years 5 weeks ago

gentlemen. Goldman Sacs was hired by Greece to hide the overspending they where doing so politicians could borrow more money And get re elected. Kinda almost sounds like what has being going on in the US for the last 10 years doesn't it. it is funny when people spend more than they have it's always someone else's fault.

no Palin I said North American self-sufficient And I said Keystone was just a start.

Mark, I don't play dumb. I have been told many times how dumb I am here. Funny though the people who I hand pay checks to every two weeks don't think I am dumb. They like me. weird eh

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 10 years 5 weeks ago

You always put a little kernel of truth in your falsehoods so that they amount to ... ... FALSEHOOD! only, perhaps, ever more deceptive, quite skilled!

Goldman Sachs offered to sell to Greece a bogus product or derivative - from which they profitted quite handsomely, thank you very much, same as they did, all over the world, to governments and private entities alike, bringing about the great crash - to push the Greek debt back and hide it so Greece could retain membership in the EU.

Greece has been called - by lefty writers - an "economically rogue state" even before the crisis. Their tradition of a strong social system is not exemplified by their recent behavior. Many nations with such a tradition are quite solvent and in good economic health.

I didn't say you were dumb, Kend, I said you played dumb. It's all part of that fictional persona you project on this blog - to peddle your other fiction.

BTW, you, then, have dropped your straw man argument about the unfunded wars and the debt? It's OK, forget you ever tried it. That $20 must be already spent. Muddying the waters is the basic objective.

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 10 years 5 weeks ago

KEND You Poor Dumb Animal!
You just can't help yourself can you???Always the same rants and capitalist rhetoric.

There are lots of companies that hand out pay checks each week...Wal Mart being the largest employer world wide hands out over 2 million pay checks each week. But that don't make them "Company of the Year"! Especially when the average wage is a measely 8.50 per hour and unless you are at the managment level or executive level there are no health care bennefits...and don't dare take a sick day!!!

How many people do you employ?...full time?...part time? What's the starting wage for full time?...part time? How much does your lowest wage employee top out at? Do you offer Health Insurance to all your employees? How about maternity leave? What do you offer as far as retirement? Are you an employee owned company? Do you give your employees a paid vacation? How many weeks of vacation do they get a year? Do you pay out bonuses to ALL your employees?
In other words, lets hear how you treat those hard working worker bees...that make you such a Capitalist success!

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 10 years 5 weeks ago

Kend says; "They like me, weird eh"!?
Don't pat yourself on the back just yet...A mentally broken dog will still come to his master when a can of food is opened.

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 10 years 5 weeks ago

KEND...You Don't have to keep comparing Bush and Obama...Is that your only go to argument!?!? It's getting old! You must realize that very few people - including myself - on this blog are supporters of the Obama Adminastration. Also most people I come across on a day to day bases don't like the Obama Adminastration, and for a variety of reasons. So please, pretty please, with sugart on top, stop trying to convince people that Obama is the problem...Yes we get it he's the one in office and he has done very little to turn this ship around.
Now, that being said, the ship has been off course for 4 decades, and every single President since Nixion - excluding Carter - has done ZERO to represent and maintain a strong and robust working middle class, INCLUDING YOUR FAVORITE, OBAMA! But Obama didn't start this mess of credit spending, and borrowing and deregulation of the banks, the housing bubble, illegal and unnecessary wars. Oh I understand Obama continues to stay the course, but that should tell you something...There is a greater power in charge here...Wall St, aka Obama's boss.
Yes those that voted for Obama twice are fools, regardless of what they were/are afraid of (Romney), Just as big a fool are those that voted for Romney. They are fools because they believe todays Corporate Government cares about them, and has their best intrest at heart, and Obama or Romney, depending on which evil you support, was to be their saving grace.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

How right you are, ptg0!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

Well said Mark Saulys and MMmmNachos! Couldn't agree more!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

By the way, last night I mentioned that some people believe that if they dream of snakes..they will get sick. Last night I dreamt of Obama and Bush (two snakes) holding hands. This morning I woke up and saw on TV the dedication of the new Bush Library in Texas where Obama was standing there giving his speech and the cameras panned over to where Papa and Baby Bush were sitting. I got sick! Just wanted to throw up! Maybe someone will do us a favor and demolish that building like they did the WTC towers and the Pentagon (but without anyone in them, of course!). But, since the only ones to have done something like that were sitting right there...I doubt the Bush's will destroy their own dedicated library...unless they used it, like they did on 911, to scare people into illegally invading another country.

megalomaniac's picture
megalomaniac 10 years 5 weeks ago

“There is also a purchase of a fortune of insurance by the owner of the WTC just prior to the attacks” Yes indeed. My research in reading stock market type transaction years ago showed huge favor even then by our great Senate and Congressional investigators to look the other way.

In incredible huge connections to insider fraud deception and swindling via then exposed by Gerald Posners book secrets of the kingdom. Even then the Senate ignored the swindles and graft.

They those in the Senate are likely in reason (add a t for treason) are closely connected with families like Bush/ Bin Laden and business weapons or technology, or mercenary contractors. Bush should build a new Gitmo behind his library, this one for his own confessions and those of his friends.

It is turning to be very curious that Senate and Congress persons visit war torn areas to validate their secret profiteering investments. The military government secrecy involved just screams out for them to take the opportunity as advantage of an atrocity, as Rahm Emanuel once said, likely telling the truth however getting beat up by the media troika CNN, Fox, MSNBC. All of the troika commercial cutting media commercial filibuster selling cultural chaos before the next news breaks.

Just think a media commercial tax would likely pay for the free education they are supposed offer but do not. Imagine a youngster out of high school being able to attain a master’s degree in four sciences; the Mormons and bible thumpers would have a fit.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 10 years 5 weeks ago

Palindromedary -- Did you see Rachael M last night? She was talking about the Popular Mechanics book "Debunking the 9/11 Myths"

When you mention things like the rewiring job is that book your source?

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

chuckle8: no that wasn't my source...and I probably wouldn't believe anything Popular Mechanics says about it anyway because it looks pretty obvious to many that Popular Mechanics is nothing but a shill for the official conspiracy theory. But, thanks for the heads up on Rachel Maddow...I'll check it out to see just what you are talking about.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 5 weeks ago

chuckle8: Ok, I found the transcript and skimmed it...finding the parts about Popular Mechanics. It sure looks to me like Rachel Maddow, whom I had once enjoyed listening to...but haven't in quite a while because I no longer get MSNBC, is doing the same kind of things that propagandists do when they want to discredit something. Just mix and mingle all the really crazy theories in with the credible ones and you can, most likely, end up getting a lot of people to write off all of them and go back to the craziest one of all..the official conspiracy theory. But since it is put out by our own government authorities, people will not think critically about all of the glaring holes in it.

I believe that the government has known, for a long time now, how to cover up things they don't want the masses to know about. They have manufactured lots of really crazy "conspiracy theories" to do just that...make them all look like crazy conspiracy theories.

It is often very difficult to know who is being used as a propaganda tool for the government. And for that matter...just who is the government?...it is certainly not the people anymore.

Yes, I've heard many, what I would consider very crazy conspiracy theories about 911...space based particle beam weapons that "melted" the WTC buildings, small nuclear bombs in the basements of the WTC buildings...but the information you get at Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth and a number of other similar sites are not dealing in crazy theories. They have the "smoking gun" evidence that has been scientifically analyzed and the results published in a peer-review scientific journal. They don't rely on far-fetched conspiracy theories...they don't get into who or blame any particular groups of people. All they have is cold hard evidence, and logical sense and facts based upon many years of engineering (yes, and even "civil" engineering) and architectural education and experience that debunks the official conspiracy theory. And there are thousands of "geeks" (as Rachel Maddow put it) that have analyzed the data themselves..and have already embarrassed NIST by catching them in their lies and obfuscations. They have gotten NIST to back down and change their stories a few times.

None of these architects and engineers are saying that space-based particle beam weapons or nukes were used. None of them are saying aliens did it. What they are saying is very doable and makes the most sense. All the clues are falling into place.

The people at A&E for 911 Truth are not of the same ilk as someone like any of the talk show hosts or radio personalities. They have many professionals that explain why they believe the way they do based upon their education and years of experience. But Rachel just throws them all together tainting everyone who believe they have sufficient evidence to refute the official government conspiracy theory.

What they want is to have an unbiased investigation...a real one this time...not with an overseer that was a friend and co-writer of Condoleeza Rice. Not with blowhard, lying, washed up politicians but panels of real scientists and engineers who are not being blackmailed by whether or not they will have employment for the rest of their lives..people that know and understand science. And have it completely open to the public. That is something you didn't get with the official 911 Panel. It was a whitewash! They ignored one hell of a lot of evidence and they picked and chose the evidence they wanted to ensure that the official government conspiracy would not be proven false. They even let that scoundrel, Bush, testify without taking an oath and with Cheney there to steer him.

And the 911 Commission book was the first book that Rachel mentioned as being worthwhile to read. To give that book some credibility was not surprising that she soon mentioned the Popular Mechanics piece of trash.

But notice how Rachel tied all of the conspiracy theories together tainting even the one that is the most doable.

I don't know how many, or who among them, are being used as useful idiots for those who have a big stake in getting people to believe in the official conspiracy theory...and who are spreading all of these other really crazy, far-fetched, conspiracy theories. The question is do they truly believe what they are saying? Are they being paid to cover for the government? Or maybe, they just don't understand physics or science!

You have to remember that some of these personalities that we all know as being Democrat, or liberal mouth-pieces are usually just trying to spread the word of the Democrat party and coming down on the Republican party. They are only interested in ensuring the Democrats are in "The Cat Bird's Seat". When you consider that both parties are really not truly representing the people and are really traitors to them, selling them out, then you have to start wondering if they are not just spreading propaganda that serves the overall illusion of democracy...ie: working to delude the people for those that rule over us.

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