Never settle with the Banksters.

Last year, five major U.S. Banks and 49 state attorneys general agreed on a $25 billion settlement to compensate victims of abusive bank practices and foreclosure fraud. But, according to New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, the banksters are violating the terms of that agreement. The settlement dictated that the banks would pay restitution to victims of illegal foreclosures, modify existing loans to keep people in their homes, and abide by new rules aimed at protecting consumers.

But, Attorney General Schneiderman said that his office alone has documented 210 violations by Wells Fargo and 129 by Bank of America. And, he says he is prepared to file a lawsuit against the banks if the problems aren't corrected. In addition to the issues reported in New York, the settlement monitor, Joseph Smith, says his office has received nearly 6,000 consumer complaints about bank services.

These violations include not meeting loan processing deadlines, not informing borrowers of missing documents, and not making loan decisions in the 30-day period mandated by the settlement. The allegations are practically the same complaints made against the banks before the settlement agreement, and they indicate that the big banks aren't holding up their end of the bargain.

The $25 billion settlement may sound like a huge payout, but only a portion of the fund was meant to repay victims of foreclosure fraud. So, someone who lost their home in an illegal foreclosure could end up with as little as $500. And now the banksters aren't even living up the deal. This is why no settlement agreement should have been made.

The big banks should have been broken up, and held accountable for their illegal practices. If too-big-to-fail means too-big-to-jail, then the big banks are too-big-to-exist. No more fines and settlements over fraud – it's time to break up the banks.

Comments

ckrob's picture
ckrob 9 years 38 weeks ago
#1

Banks used to physically store cash and precious metals. Now money is in the form of electronic credits to computer accounts and do not require bricks, mortar and stainless steel. Start-up financing can be raised via Internet subscriptions outside the banking process and without their skim. It's time to form state banks and to cut out the middle men who contribute nothing and indeed subtract from society's wealth and health.

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 38 weeks ago
#2

Palin, yesterday. When asked what this admin. has done in 4.5 years you came up with:

"killed Bin Ladan", sorry I didn't know Obama was in the Black Hawk. Silly me I thought the Seals did it.

"Ended the wars in the middle East" they sent 30,000 more troops into the middle east

"Ended touture" to terrorist who are killing you.

"increased openness in Government" Oh do you mean like Benghazi. Are you kidding me?

The jury is still out on the health care thing. wait until Americans get the bill. The fed's running health care? there will be ten times more staff to manage the managers of the management deptarment. I sure you all have total trust with the fed here. Just look how well they manage everything else. Sorry don't do that you won't sleep well.

4.5 years and that was all you could come up with. come Palin quit defending Obama and put some pressure on him to get America back to work. It would only be fair since the Obama's have become 20 million dollars richer in the last four years. I know Obama is a good man he can do it, but he needs a push.

As far as banks go, I hate em. Everything they do I hate. I have said many times here please deal with small local banks, remember them the ones who know your name.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 38 weeks ago
#3

ckrob: And, they are easier to steal from. And it is happening all the time..and the banks don't want you to know how unsafe it is to keep money in their banks. Electronic funds transfers made by hackers happen all the time. And although, I have read, the banks are a lot more willing to restore your balances from your checking or savings accounts, if those accounts are not business accounts (they are a lot harder on business accounts), you still have to keep a very close watch and immediately report to the bank anything that you find amiss...or the bank won't help you.

Banking on-line may help you keep more frequent monitoring of your accounts (if you even bother to check it daily) but it also makes it easier for some hacker to get into your accounts. The data transfers to-from the banks from your computer are encrypted and relatively safe but how do you know that your computer has not already been hacked and the hackers installed a key board logger...that logs everything you type...user names, passwords, etc.

You may think you are safe with firewalls and anti-virus programs but not all of these are as secure as others...and not all are configured for optimal security...because a lot of people just don't know enough. They rely entirely on the banks...while they surf the internet and get all kinds of malware on their computers.

Some people don't even keep their computer software updated. And any of these faults on the part of an end user could be used as an excuse by the bank not to restore your funds. If they can prove you have been reckless with your account name and password...they have a case against you.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 38 weeks ago
#4
Quote Kend:
Palin quit defending Obama

I guess my irony didn't come over as such. I was not defending Obama..at all! I wasn't really saying that I believed Obama did those things. I was being facetious. I think Obama is really a turn coat who has sold out his constituents to Wall Street, the Military Industrial Complex, corporations, and banks. I think he is further to the right than some Republicans.

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 38 weeks ago
#5

Kend - I do not think you are a heartless bastard that hates poor kids for using his tax dollars to be fed lunch. I just think you are uninformed of who gets "free lunches" from the schools and why. My information comes second hand, because I believe the information my daughter, who is a third grade teacher in a low income school district relates to me.
1st. Not every child in the school system receives the so called free lunches. The parent or parents of these children must first document their income or lack of income in order to receive lunch assistance for their children. Of course the more cynical of you out there will just shrug it off as a free handout and there is no way to prove anything.
2nd. She is a very perceptive teacher and speaks with her students on a daily basis on how things are going. She hears stories where some of these kids go without breakfast because we ran out of food. Or some of her students will come to school without coats or socks, because their Mom or Dad did not have enough money this month to buy clothes for us, but they will try to get some used clothes this weekend. And please do not reply that is the parent’s fault the children do not have enough to eat or warm clothes to wear. Without being there to see the faces of these children you have no right to comment and condemn. Which appears to be the primary function of most of the asses that comment on this blog?
3rd. The only nourishing meal these poor children get is at school. They get a fruit and a vegetable along with carbs and milk with their lunch at school. You cannot teach hungry kids and expect them to learn. If these children do not learn while in the beginning years of their education, statistics show they have a much lower chance of graduating high school. Don't take my word for it, do some research before you run off at the mouth.
I realize that most of you have not had to make choices on which meals to skimp by on, so you can feed your children dinner before they go to bed. So I right if off as lack of real experience in knowing what truly poor children go through daily in their lives in school and at home. Those of you who state you do not mind if the school provides lunches, but not with your taxes. These children are part of the community and therefore are indirectly part of the whole of society that is in need. In a kind society we do not punish the children for the failures of the parents. And to state your contempt for these parents who "don't feed their kids” have no idea of how much pain the majority of these parents are in when they cannot feed their children properly.
Kend mentioned this is not the 1950's and your damn right it is not the era in which most of us grew up in. The world these children and their parents have to live in is less caring and more concerned in what they have and can hold onto. In the 1950's the community gave a damn about their neighbors in need, today our society is more cynical and selfish than ever before. We like our politicians and corporations are only concerned about what we (they) can get out of it and screw the next person, as long as we get what we want. If you are so concerned that your tax dollars are going to help poor children have one nutritional meal a day and that really upsets you, you, Kend, and anyone who feels that way is a heartless bastard and deserves what karma has waiting for them. Probably a massive coronary at age 65, and then you will not have to worry about your tax dollars helping poor children survive another day to learn as best as they can in this heartless society we now live in. If I said how I feel personally about people who feel this way and what I would like to do to those who would deny those who are the most innocent and the most deserving in our society, I would be arrested for domestic terrorism. In America we give massive tax breaks to corporations and the wealthy, have no problem locking people up and feeding them three healthy meals a day in prison, yet somehow resent feeding hungry children lunch, so they will have a full belly while trying to learn. I am very contemptuous of the bastards who take that point of view, but then I have to realize this is America and should not expect much more from our citizens who do not even bother to vote, but will bitch at every opportunity they have and criticize those who are less fortunate. And, as Hartmann has mention countless times, nobody in America has made it on their own, as many who proclaim they are self-made men; it is the society as a whole that has helped them get there. Yet, they have the balls to write off poor children and the help they need to survive. Sickening at best. P.S. Not every parent has the means to send their children off in the morning with a good meal for lunch and should feel damn well blessed if they can....K.W.
I apologize for such a lengthy comment and being off subject on Hartmann’ blog today. I just cannot believe people would actually begrudge poor children a healthy lunch, so they have a chance to learn for the day!

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 38 weeks ago
#6

Kend - I do not think you are a heartless bastard that hates poor kids for using his tax dollars to be fed lunch. I just think you are uninformed of who gets "free lunches" from the schools and why. My information comes second hand, because I believe the information my daughter, who is a third grade teacher in a low income school district relates to me.

1st. Not every child in the school system receives the so called free lunches. The parent or parents of these children must first document their income or lack of income in order to receive lunch assistance for their children. Of course the more cynical of you out there will just shrug it off as a free handout and there is no way to prove anything.

2nd. She is a very perceptive teacher and speaks with her students on a daily basis on how things are going. She hears stories where some of these kids go without breakfast because we ran out of food. Or some of her students will come to school without coats or socks, because their Mom or Dad did not have enough money this month to buy clothes for us, but they will try to get some used clothes this weekend. And please do not reply that is the parent’s fault the children do not have enough to eat or warm clothes to wear. Without being there to see the faces of these children you have no right to comment and condemn. Which appears to be the primary function of most of the asses that comment on this blog?

3rd. The only nourishing meal these poor children get is at school. They get a fruit and a vegetable along with carbs and milk with their lunch at school. You cannot teach hungry kids and expect them to learn. If these children do not learn while in the beginning years of their education, statistics show they have a much lower chance of graduating high school. Don't take my word for it, do some research before you run off at the mouth.

I realize that most of you have not had to make choices on which meals to skimp by on, so you can feed your children dinner before they go to bed. So I right if off as lack of real experience in knowing what truly poor children go through daily in their lives in school and at home. Those of you who state you do not mind if the school provides lunches, but not with your taxes. These children are part of the community and therefore are indirectly part of the whole of society that is in need. In a kind society we do not punish the children for the failures of the parents. And to state your contempt for these parents who "don't feed their kids” have no idea of how much pain the majority of these parents are in when they cannot feed their children properly.

Kend mentioned this is not the 1950's and your damn right it is not the era in which most of us grew up in. The world these children and their parents have to live in is less caring and more concerned in what they have and can hold onto. In the 1950's the community gave a damn about their neighbors in need, today our society is more cynical and selfish than ever before. We like our politicians and corporations are only concerned about what we (they) can get out of it and screw the next person, as long as we get what we want. If you are so concerned that your tax dollars are going to help poor children have one nutritional meal a day and that really upsets you, you, Kend, and anyone who feels that way is a heartless bastard and deserves what karma has waiting for them. Probably a massive coronary at age 65, and then you will not have to worry about your tax dollars helping poor children survive another day to learn as best as they can in this heartless society we now live in. If I said how I feel personally about people who feel this way and what I would like to do to those who would deny those who are the most innocent and the most deserving in our society, I would be arrested for domestic terrorism. In America we give massive tax breaks to corporations and the wealthy, have no problem locking people up and feeding them three healthy meals a day in prison, yet somehow resent feeding hungry children lunch, so they will have a full belly while trying to learn. I am very contemptuous of the bastards who take that point of view, but then I have to realize this is America and should not expect much more from our citizens who do not even bother to vote, but will bitch at every opportunity they have and criticize those who are less fortunate. And, as Hartmann has mention countless times, nobody in America has made it on their own, as many who proclaim they are self-made men; it is the society as a whole that has helped them get there. Yet, they have the balls to write off poor children and the help they need to survive. Sickening at best. P.S. Not every parent has the means to send their children off in the morning with a good meal for lunch and should feel damn well blessed if they can....K.W.

I apologize for such a lengthy comment and being off subject on Hartmann’ blog today. I just cannot believe people would actually begrudge poor children a healthy lunch, so they have a chance to learn for the day!

larrytemple's picture
larrytemple 9 years 38 weeks ago
#7

These corporations keep claiming to be "persons" and therefore claiming the rights of individual human beings. Well, if human being "persons" were doing some of the things that many of these corporations are doing, they would be locked away, put out of business or executed (killed). It's time to execute/kill many of these multinational corporations and it's definitely time to break up these huge financial institutions that are a cancer on society.

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 38 weeks ago
#8

We all know the problems we have with the banks and Hartmann has no problem bitching about them, but how do we correct the problems? Take our funds from one bank to another, when they are all the same? Hartmann is a big time business man himself, so what has he done in his personal dealings with the Banks to help change things? Maybe we should all bank in Canada, with all the denouncing of America and our institutions, Kend and his countrymen must have found the solution. Otherwise he would not take the time each day to point out how "bad" off America and her citizens are! Well Kend, how does the great country of Canada do it? Are all your politicians on the up and up, or just the right-wingers? For a non-American, you sure find a great deal to criticize here in the lower 50! Maybe we should run another pipeline from Canada to Texas, so another corporation can export Canadian oil processed into gasoline for China and other countries outside of the United States! That sounds like another winner, where Canada and her citizen’s profit and we take all the risks in polluting our environment. That should help the Bankers and Wall St. make more profits as well. I guess I am just an old style patriot who still thinks there are still many things right about our nation, even with all the problems we face! And we are the greatest and strongest Nation in the World. There I go again, taking like a patriot who still loves America and thankful for what, she as a nation, has given me and mine. I guess I am out of sync here, not denouncing our country and not bitching about how terrible we are. After all, we the people are still what make up this great and beautiful country. With all our faults and problems, I would not trade my place with anyone else in any other country. Too bad so many people find what is wrong and have no solution but gripping and belly aching over our problems. It is always easier to complain, then to come up with solutions. I guess if you are unhappy, it relieves tension to complain all the time...K.W.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 9 years 38 weeks ago
#9

KW - Bravo!

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 9 years 38 weeks ago
#10

Does everyone know that money (its concept) was introduced around 4000 years ago to make the rich folks pay for their use of the commons via taxes. It is ironically called Modern Monetary Theory (MMT). This reply is mostly related to some comments from yesterday but certainly has a lot to do with banks.

fatfax's picture
fatfax 9 years 38 weeks ago
#11

The Senate and House Democrats and Republicans are owned by the MEGA wealthy families , WHO by the way own the banks. Phil Grande am talk radio host exposes both parties corruption including Obama and Eric Holders allegiance to the mega wealthy. Thom Hartmann withholds alot of dirt on Obama. Both parties need to be put in check by a third party.

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 38 weeks ago
#12

Ken W, I never said we shouldn't give the kids the lunch. I questioned why it has to be done at a Federal level. What has happened to OUR countries that the local community can't do it. Yes maybe you should bank in Canada it has been ranked the best banking system in the world for 8 years. Our politicians don't leave office worth 10 of millions of dollars like yours. You could probaly learn from that as well. There serve their countries and leave with a big fat pension. Yours leave with 10 of millions, maybe none of my business but just a suggestion google your politictions net worth its shocking, and you bitch about private CEO's at least thats not your money there making.

Please don't lecture me on our Canadian oil running throug your country. First of all it is all American oil companies up here producing the oil, so its ok to mess with our country but god forbid we run a perfectly safe pipeline through yours. With all due respect my freind Americans have been in every country in the world screwing up there enviroment making billions. Just look at Nigeria you have done a great job there. You have destroyed that counties country side, yes Ameriacan oil companies my freind.

You are right though when it comes to not knowing what goes on down there, I don't know but if you recall when I talked about the Fed. lunch program I asked for help understanding it. For the record I coached minor hockey for 15 years and started both a summer hockey school for low income families and a program for kids who could not afford to play do so. Why I get mad was those parents of those children always had smokes and booze, sorry but it pisses me off.

megalomaniac's picture
megalomaniac 9 years 38 weeks ago
#13

Please dump the current mortgage banking system. For good reason the basic formula for banking is based on organic growth. Worse it is against the natural laws of nature to place the largest portion of interest up front while the smallest portion of principle is least reduced.

This brand of banking is the old world method which is intended to make generous profiteering in banking for a select few, those in charge who make the laws. Actually the real simple way out is to remake the system simply by a vote in our leadership for who will change the laws in banking.

Back to organic growth of a system with its definition which is expansion but leaves out decay. Homes are built with material that is in or at the stage of decay. Homes don’t grow like a cherry tree, or a peach tree, or bacteria or cell or the basic population which is determined a formula that is a form of a derivative. Growth formulas based in the mortgage industry is the problem. Its fine for making money but hell for stability in an economic system.

Rarely do I agree with financial people like Steve Forbes but in one of his discussions about a flat tax is something to consider taken to another level of a flat charge in interest too. Dump the Amortization concept and use a straight tax method. Or at least consider both to be an option when purchasing a home. New home buys should have a legal capability to buy a home with a straight tax combined in a home loan. This means owning a home can happen sooner for the average person.

Attaching a straight tax to the home price can fix the asset for a time period where the consumer is in a preferred advantage in the loan contract. More over the banking system would have the inherent culture to encourage the business banking system to reinvest in the consumer market to promote stability unlike the system America currently has where banking is encouraged to flip real estate increasing uncertainty enormously.

douglas m 9 years 38 weeks ago
#14

I lke the way veryone talks about everything but the banks.

I enjoyed the first statement, get rid of all the banks and use state banks only.

We would truly be free once again.

Real question is how do we do that?

ckrob's picture
ckrob 9 years 38 weeks ago
#15

Thanks Pal. I agree with your observations on the current problems. My suggestion is for a complete restructuring of our financial system elbowing the banks out of business. A non-profit state bank system and major enhancements of Internet security (including biometrics) would take a decade or two even if the political will developed. There are many other issues about which I'm clueless such as the generation of new currency. I would, however, suggest that tweaking the current system is not a rational way to go.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 38 weeks ago
#16

Business people would not be so willing to withhold free lunches for school children if it would also mean that they would not get free lunches in business. Business people get free lunches all the time and they get to write it off on their taxes. The businesses usually pay the expenses of some of their employees..mostly executives or sales people..they just put it on "expenses" and the company pays for it...and, of course, the company gets a tax write off....cost of doing business.

Think of it this way...giving school children free lunches...to our future employees...and consider it a cost of doing business. You will get healthier and smarter kids growing up to be healthier and smarter employees...and they may not mug you in the streets or break into your multimillion dollar fortress of a home and rob and kill you and your family.

Besides, if kids are malnourished and lacking in health care....we could be looking at an epidemic of some great proportion in the future...and even your "rich kids" may die along with the "poor kids" and they will bring it home to you, the adults...We're all gonna die! Come on now, rich people, haven't you ridden the tax break "free lunch" long enough? It's time you pay your fair share of the burden in taxes. Reagan's dead! And I hope the Bushes will be soon...pieces of Hitlerian garbage.

You won't be able to contain the coming epidemic. We'd better be prepared!!!

I suspect that in the very near future we will see, if not a rogue suitcase nuke going off somewhere in America, then we will see a biological nightmare set off by some sort of terrorist activity. You just cannot act like a$$hole$ murdering so many people like in the Middle East and expect to not have some really big payback (blowback)! And our Keystone Kops are just not going to be able to stop it!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 38 weeks ago
#17

ckrob: I hear BitCoin is quite fashionable now. And it scares the crabs out of the Banksters...and our fascist government. Although BitCoins have had some problems. The reason it scares them is because they don't really have any control over them and transactions can be kept secret which means money can be laundered pretty easily and things that are illegal can be purchased more covertly than with other forms of transactions like with credit cards, debt cards, even cash. I don't know if I could trust them though. But, I don't even know if I can trust my bank. When all someone needs is an account number and a routing number to transfer electronic funds out of your account then that is scary. I've already experienced this...but with small amounts..thank goodness. I caught the transfers right off and the bank investigated and restore my balance...but they took their sweet old time about it and they never gave me an explanation of what happened. They really don't want you to know. The account number and routing numbers are usually printed on the bottom of every check. And yes, I still pay my bills by check...the good old fashioned way. I don't trust on-line banking because I had problems many years ago when on-line banking first started. But since, I've learned a lot more about how insecure on-line banking is.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 38 weeks ago
#18
Quote Hartmann:
The big banks should have been broken up, and held accountable for their illegal practices. If too-big-to-fail means too-big-to-jail, then the big banks are too-big-to-exist. No more fines and settlements over fraud – it's time to break up the banks.

Definitely! Well said! Couldn't have said it better myself!

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 38 weeks ago
#19

DeAnneMarc - I owe you an apology for my comments and trying to bait you into an argument on line. We are on the opposite sides of the scale when it comes to conspiracy theories, the military as a whole, our government and our country. I was wrong to try to intimidate you on line. At times I come off as a heavy on line and over react to comments others make. Consider this an apology. My daughter had to remind me that all males do not see the world as I do. I rarely apologize, but I crossed the line in my comments on Friday. This is not to taken as an admission that I agree with you and your comments, I do not. But I allowed my testosterone to override my good sense. In the event someone might have read my comments, I wanted to admit I was wrong. K.W.



Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 38 weeks ago
#20

See! Kiss and make up! Part of the cycle. Kiss and make up is good! Nice to hear it! But we all know it won't last long.

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 38 weeks ago
#21

Kend - Those companies sucking up your shale oil are probably multi-national oil companies and not simple Americans like me. Yes, the corporations have set up shop in many foreign countries, but again these are multi-national companies and corporations, not the American citizens who work and live in our country. But I agree with the point about American based companies raping other countries for their natural resources. There are corporate villains in every country, sucking the life force out of their fellow citizens and citizens of foreign countries for greater wealth.

I tried to inform you on why these poor kids receive free lunches, and I respect your comments. K.W.

ken ware's picture
ken ware 9 years 38 weeks ago
#22

Thanks for your confidence Palin! Ha Ha! I did not say I would be nice and agreeable, just not so aggressive!

Hey There 4's picture
Hey There 4 9 years 38 weeks ago
#23

ALL the people who "lost" a home should be rehomed in a house like the one they "lost". Housing doubled in a space less than 10 years as I recall while wages stagnated and Executive and CEO pay increased. The lawyers and the banks who repossessed the homes are the ones who are making the money here.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4Stk2yejNk

Hey There 4's picture
Hey There 4 9 years 38 weeks ago
#24

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f52CWIukR_8

And another well said from me.

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 38 weeks ago
#25

No those companies are American Ken. Exxon, Mobil, Shell, Texaco and Chevron, just to name few, I live in Calgary a city of a million people and there is around 90,000 Americans here. They all have there own office towers downtown. Also all the American service companies Haliburton , Schumberger, Fracmaster, etc. have there own towers. although one of the biggest Canadian oil companies just sold to a Chinese company. We still have a few left , Encana, Suncor, Syncrude but they are mostly owned by US companies as well. Sorry but you no what they say about people who live in glass houses. Don't even get me started about how many military bases ou guys have all over the world. And all we want is one little pipeline, but I guess it's a lot to ask. Now that I think about it your kinda like the the neighbour who borrows all my tools, lawn mower, pressure washer and my truck but he wouldn't lend me a shovel.

washnwmn's picture
washnwmn 9 years 38 weeks ago
#26

Having worked at call centers -first with a group trying to help folks keep their homes, then at another with a major bank as the contract. I found out 1st hand how banks and mortgage companies (which are fronts for banks) operate. Between the 2, I Iearned more than I ever wanted to know about the mortgage racket. I kept asking myself how these toxic loans could even be legal. The more I learn about the games banks are playing, derivatives and such, basically betting on their own failures, the less I want to have anything to do with them. Watching the stock market hit yet another high today, makes things seem even more shakey. Just as in the 1920's, it goes higher and higher, with nothing behind it. When Cyprus comes to the US, when the banks start reaching directly into your checking account to support their gambling habits, it may all come to a head, and crash. Everyone in corporate, financial and government is riding high on their greed. History has shown over and over again that it will eventually come back to bite them, and everyone suffers for it.

State banks may be 1 alternative. Until that comes about, look for a good credit union.

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 38 weeks ago
#27

Well said Wash, the scary thing is that most pension plans invest heavily in banks. Also about 80% of pension plans are in big trouble already. A good local credit union is a great choice I believe. Don't ever trust a large bank.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 9 years 38 weeks ago
#28

Since I just voted for the board of directors for Shell, I would like to inform you it is not an American company. As a matter of fact, it is called Royal Dutch Shell and the Americans on the board seem to be tokens and sleazy private equity firm guys.

The only reason they want to run that pipeline through the USA is because the Canadian citizens, led by the 1st citizens(?), do not want that pipeline destroying their environment. According to details provided by Greg Palast based on events from most other pipelines, a clean pipeline is an imaginary fantasy.

The democrats in our congress tried to amend the Keystone pipeline legislation, to demand that some small percentage of the refined product remain in the US. Republicans blocked it from happening. As a Canadian you should be against the pipeline also because, per Thom, in the Trans-Canada proposal they said the exporting of all that oil would cause a price increase of 20 cents per gallon of gasoline. I'll bet that 20 cents is one of the lowest lower bounds ever stated.

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