Republicans don't really want immigration reform.
Yesterday, the Senate Judiciary Committee held the first of many hearings on comprehensive immigration reform. In the seven and a half hour hearing, senators debated 32 of the three hundred proposed amendments to the bill, and adopted 21 of the changes. The proposals ranged from plans to correct technical immigration issues, to Sen. Ted Cruz's amendment to triple the number of border control agents, to Sen. Jeff Sessions' proposal to construct a 700 mile, double-layered fence along our Southern border.
Thankfully, most of the extreme amendments were voted down, but there's still cause for concern over the proposals they accepted. One of the most contentious changes was Republican Senator Chuck Grassley's mandate, that the Department of Homeland Security submit a plan to stop 90 percent of illegal border crossings in high-risk areas, before undocumented individuals already living here can even apply for so-called “provisional immigrant” status. This provision is only slightly better than Grassley's rejected, poison-pill amendment, which set unattainable benchmarks that DHS had to meet before any pathway to citizenship would be considered.
After losing the Hispanic vote in the 2012 election, Republicans have attempted to paint themselves as pro-immigration, but it's all an act. The racist and unrealistic GOP amendments in this legislation show they have no real desire to fix our nation's immigration system. As the Senate Judiciary Committee debates the hundreds of remaining amendments over the coming months, we must prevent these poison-pill provisions from making immigration reform meaningless. Call your Senators and tell them to fight these poison-pill amendments, and support provisions that actually fix our broken immigration system.
What do we expect from the fascists sessions and cruz?
Republicans fought against immigration reform when George W. Bush served as president. They like the system the way it is, broken. Our broken system creates a two-tier workforce. The bottom tier of undocumented employees do not receive the protection of labor laws. Republican fund raisers tell their candidates that employers want to keep the two-tier unfair system, it allows employers to take advantage of immigrant labor. The United States had free labor until President Lincoln freed the slaves. Immediately we passed the Chinese Exclusion Act to get cheap, not free, but close to free labor from China. The Chinese Exclusion Act is a bit better than out and out slavery, but only by a little. Chinese were not allowed to own property, not allowed to marry, and women were prohibited from coming. At the conclusion of WWII we cancelled the Chinese Exclusion Act and started the Bracero Program that permitted Mexican unskilled workers to perform the lowest skilled employment. Now we have a system that serves no human goal. Our present system only serves employers who want to exploit unskilled laborers. We have nothing to be proud of when it comes to cheap labor. Republicans are merely serving their billionaire masters again.
I hate to get terribly off topic so maybe I should just watch TV tonight; BUT, why are we wasting time with immigration reform when legislation deregulating wall street is on the table, free trade is still being ignored, Sequester is threatening our social safety net, drug users are still in prison and war criminals are living in luxury, corporate money is still considered free speech, legislation for Campaign Finance reform is considered an ancient myth, severely mentally ill people are still roaming the streets and current legislation seeks to restrict gun sales to law abiding citizens? What about that incredible story about those poor women held prisoners for 10 years in some looser's basement?
But wait! Oh no, we have to devote the entire weekend blog to those pesky lettuce picking, salsa making, taco truck driving, house and yard cleaning, Home Depot loitering, highly skilled/low paid, Spanish speaking, cheap Mexican laborers who we hate so much for coming here and doing the dirty work we are too lazy to do for half the money that we wouldn't do it for anyway.
Why not just talk about the price of Clam Chowder in New England?
Pardon me for getting slightly off topic. Actually, this is as much on topic as I plan to be this weekend so scroll past me if you want from now on till Monday.
Quote PhilipHenderson: The United States had free labor until President Lincoln freed the slaves.
I agree with everything you said my friend. However this statement is not exactly true. No labor is completely free. Slave were not free, only cheap--much like immigration labor. The only difference is slaves cost a huge investment from the owner--a long term investment. In addition, the owner had to pay overseers to 'manage' the slave. The slave had to be provided with food, clothing, housing, and health care. The slave had no freedom or rights to 'quit' his job; but, had little worries about losing his job as well.
Undocumented workers have the right to 'quit'. However, they do not have food, housing, clothing, or health care provided either. Their compensation is hourly and so is the investment of the owner. They, like slaves, shared the same kind of work environment. The only difference is that if that environment hurts an undocumented worker in any way, the owner just looks for a replacement worker. Compensation ceases at the moment of injury. Slave owners did not enjoy that luxury. If a slave was injured, the owner lost an investment. Therefore slaves tended to enjoy a more reasonably safe work environment as a result.
An excellent metaphor for hourly workers vs slaves is rent-a-cars. Ask yourself this question, what am I going to take better care of, my own car that I bought, or a rent-a-car that I pay for hourly? If your answer is 'my own car' then congratulations--you prefer slavery.
I doubt this logic is going to go over well on this blog. It certainly has not made me the most popular guest at many of the parties I've attended. However, everyone must admit that this logic is at least provocative. Besides, popularity has never been one of my goals anyway. Truth is far more important than anything else.
I want to make it clear that I in no way want to go backwards to the time of slavery. That was a reprehensible affront to civil rights and human dignity. However, I feel I must point out that the current status quo of our society and every 'wage earner' in it, is but a sub-slave. Undocumented workers are in a state that is lower than low. Lower than a sub-slave. Dime for dime, undocumented workers are the cheapest form of labor ever had in this country. Even prison labor isn't as cheap.
When President Lincoln 'freed the slaves' he actually cut most of the benefits for slaves and introduced them to wage slavery.
By the way, this one deserves repeating. Palindromedary, this one is dedicated to you!
Palindromedary has an interesting argument about 911Quote Palindromedary: By shifting the plane's position so radically, Flight 77 managed to hit the side of the Pentagon *directly opposite* the side on which the offices of the Secretary of Defense and Joint Chief of Staff were located. (Coincidentally, Flight 77 hit the offices of Army operations (U.S. News an World Report, Sept. 14, 2001, pg. 25).
Palindromedary further saysQuote Palindromedary:Recall, it was the Army that warned of the possibility that Israel's Mossad might make a terror attack against the US.) The masterminds of Operation 911 were prepared to sacrifice the rank and file, but carefully avoided touching a hair on the head of the brass.**
Palindromedary then concludes:Quote Palindromedary:It reminds one of Operation Northwoods, doesn't it? Remember the rank and file sailors who were to be sacrificed on a US Naval vessel in Guantanamo Bay, in order to justify war with Cuba? No, neither Hanjour nor any other Muslim suicide pilot was at the controls of this plane. It had been fitted with Global Hawk technology and was being remotely controlled.
SAMS The Army School of Advanced Military Studies stated on September 10thQuote The Army School of Advanced Military Studies:The Army's School of Advanced Military Studies (SAMS ) thinks Israel is capable of doing exactly that. On September 10, 2001, The Washington Times ran a front page story which quoted SAMS officers: "Of the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service, the SAMS officers say: 'Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to target US forces and make it look like a Palestinian/Arab act.'" ("US troops would enforce peace under Army study," Washington Times, Sept.. 10, 2001, pg. A1, 9.)Palindromedary then summerizesQuote Palindromedary: Just 24 hours after this story appeared, the Pentagon was hit and the Arabs were being blamed.
Wow, dude! What a flawless, airtight argument! Bravo!! Just wanted to make sure our friend Ken got to read it. Can't wait for his take on this one.
Hey!! This quoting tool is fun! I hope I didn't get too carried away. LOL I need the practice.
Palindromedary ~ It is so true. Like in chess... you sacrifice a few Pawns to knock off a Queen, a Rook, a Knight, or a Bishop. You protect your Big Brass and King but you strategically use your tokens to advance your agenda. Bravo, Palindromedary, for pointing out those critical links in the chain of events.
It isn't your "logic" that makes you unpopular. It's your facts. (Although that doesn't always seem to be a handicap on these blogs.) If slaves couldn't live on their slave labor -- what the plantation owner allowed -- they couldn't just walk away and look for another job--as you imply. If they did try to leave, the armed "militia" of the plantation owner or of the local group of owners would quickly be behind them with rifles and dogs. If they were caught, things went quite badly for them; maybe they wouldn't be killed (because even if they lost a slave, they were teaching the others a lesson), but they would be whipped -- have you ever seen the photos of raised welts on the backs of slaves, male or female? They are ghastly, years later, and most probably never fully recovered. Or they might be buried up to their neck in sand and ants allowed to do their will. Ever wonder why--although you might not know this if you're young enough and you sound young--there were ALWAYS men and women who were so clearly of mixed race? It wasn't a romantic liaison, believe me. Owners could do anything they wanted to any of their pieces of property, including raping them. It was one way to replenish the slave inventory. And they easily and apparently without any guilt or sorrow broke up families, selling the husband to another plantation, for example, or maybe sending the children to several plantations. The families had no means of ever getting together again; they couldn't leave, obviously, and the plantations were usually too far apart, and anyway, we know they were like animals and didn't care if someone else "adopted" them.
Ever read Toni Morrison's masterpiece, "Beloved." I recommend it. It's fiction but the story is true. She won a Nobel prize for it and is rated one of America's (maybe the world's) top novelists (a poll of literary types a few years ago resulted in a tie between Morrison and F. Scott Fitzgerald as the greatest AMERICAN novelists of all time). Read it.
This was not, as bad as it is, the labor of immigrants who may not even be allowed a potty break or time for lunch and often live in squalid quarters and do stoop work you probably don't want to do.
DAnneMarc: Sorry about the delayed response, the work week is tough on time. Anyway in answer to yesterdays #14, In my opinion the unseen hand of Influence you speak of on President Obama may well be his own worry about the record number of death threats against him. I think this alone may be causing him to tip way right of center with his attitude toward the working class. I often wonder how I would react to extreme threats or danger and then find myself thinking about my ancestors, many of whom fought and died in the Rev war. One is known to have risked his life in raising cash among the patriots on Long Island under the noses of the British army.
Anyway I think Obama would benefit greatly by reading about George Washington's exploits during both the 4th and final French and Indian War and of course the Rev War. Washington trusted in his own destiny and never backed down. The Native Americans sensed this impregnable destiny and often said don't waste your buck and ball on Washington for he can't be stopped, they had seen it before in their own great leaders. In my opinion a stong faith in ones own destiny is an absolute quality required of great leadership. Flinching in the face of hostile extremists serves only to be disruptive and in fact impedes this necessary quality.
Got to go, have a 5k race in the morning!
From what I can see, we dont need anything that either party is selling. They are all bullshit artists.
Where are the jobs? Where are the investigations for financial fraud and lying us into 2 wars?
"Look forward, not backward" chumps.
Quote 2950-10K: Got to go, have a 5k race in the morning!
An excellent response. The best of luck my friend. Smoke the competition!
Quote ptg0:Where are the jobs? Where are the investigations for financial fraud and lying us into 2 wars?
You took the words right out of my mouth, brother!
historywriter ~ Unless you've already missed, a person I have the utmost respect for has already stated this about you:
Quote Outback:Historywriter, you are a boor! Your specious observations reflect an obvious lack of intelligence. You routinely direct your silly comments at posters you either intentionally won't name or whom you don't possess the attention span to identify. If in fact you do "write history" it must be for the Texas school system. I'm tired of dealing with you.
DAnneMarc, thanks for stepping up to the plate, but my advice is not to waste another minute on this idiot.
Please pardon me if I take the advice of a very esteemed colleague and do not reply. Have a great weekend!
Thanks for setting me up, DAnneMarc. Historywriter posts a particularly cogent piece and you drag this comment up completely out of context. Whatta guy!
Historywriter, forgive my previous ejaculation. You had just sniped at me twice without naming me and I was feeling a little chafed.
There, does everyone feel better? No, wait, We need Ken ware to come swooping in to "bitch slap" someone around.
This crowd can really get interesting!
Every time this topic comes up it blows me away that immigration is even talked about down there. It is very simple. If you are not a citizen of a country you have to get permission to enter that country if you don't and get caught you are deported. That's it. What am I missing here? Every other country in the world follows this simple principle why not the USA? One in five have not had a job there in four years shouldn't that be more important then Pedro's job. Isn't it Mexico's job to look after Mexicans.
Sorry but why is this so important to the left down there? Please help me understand. Anyone.
Well, Kend, I think you know the answer. It's all about the almighty buck. Employers paying subprime wages. Government agencies like Homeland Security and the border patrol making sure they spend enough to justify their own existence next year, plus ten percent.
Listen, I've thought about it for the last fifteen minutes and I'm outa here. To the people I particularly respect on this blog, palindromedary,2950-10K, philip henderson. et.al, (and Alice in Wonderland if you still sneak a peek;-), adieu. It's been fun, but time to move on.
Quote Outback: Thanks for setting me up, DAnneMarc. Historywriter posts a particularly cogent piece and you drag this comment up completely out of context. Whatta guy!
Outback--buddy! Did I quote you out of context? What does historywriter say that is cogent? Are you saying that what I said is out of line?
I say to you both, think long and hard about what I said. Then if you still wish, feed me facts that contradict anything I said. I dare you!! I double dare you!!! My facts on this matter are air tight. Difficult to swallow, yes! But, nevertheless, airtight!! Go ahead and blow a hole in this logic..... I dare anyone, including Thom Hartmann!!
I refuse to even waste another moment in time to comment on the conspiracy theories that DAM and Palin subscribe to. I have printed many of the remarks made by both of the fore mentioned to friends and colleagues and the response has been the same from everyone. Why aren't these guys on meds or in strait jackets? One friend of mine is an orthopedic surgeon and began to laugh half way through reading your comments. Enough said on my part. It makes very little difference to either of the two men I have noted above when presenting evidence to the contrary of their theories, they will find a way to dismiss anything that does not concur with their beliefs and give reference that those who discount their theories of governmental conspiracies have been "duped" into believing what the government claims happened on that infamous day in September. I truly feel DAM speaks with an air of superiority towards others and Palin see's the World as one immense conspiracy against humanity. As far as amnesty goes for those who are here illegally, the very idea is ludicrous in nature. We will pass laws that send a message to the rest of the World that if you can get a physical presence within the United States, you will not be challenged and can take the work Americans would normally perform at those jobs, and all you have to do is accept a lower wage which translates into higher profits for the employer of these illegal workers. We have not been able to enforce the immigration laws we now have on the books. What makes anyone believe we will enforce any new laws to enforce our immigration laws and stop those who would enter our country illegally, not to mention the fact we have a pesky problem with terrorist who would do us great harm if they could enter our country un-noticed by our I.C.E. To put these illegal immigrants on the same level as the slaves we once used for labor, is in itself is a slap in the face of every immigrant who came here legally and those who were enslaved! All I hear from the people who comment here is rhetoric in the lowest caliber imaginable concerning illegal immigrants. There are 20 million people who came into our country illegally and are taking jobs our unemployed could be doing for a living wage! My god people have you all lost your sense of the fact we are a country of laws and that is what keeps the fabric of our nation intact! And please leave your snide remarks about how our politicians do not obey our laws, why should anyone else! I will end this conversation and refuse to even debate the immigration issue, which is what this blog was supposed to be about today and yet like every other subject, the conspiracy theorists have a compulsion to interject their opinions of this issue into every conversation and then congratulate each other on a job well done. You are all intelligent, yet you have such small minds that are stuck in second gear and feel it is your duty to instruct everyone who comments on Hartmann’s blog of what really is happening in America, with no comments on how to resolve our issues in an intelligent and forth right manner! I do not think embracing those who have come to our country illegally to take jobs from the American workers is being a humanitarian, because you lack the same feelings you have for the illegal workers among us, as you have for the millions who have lost their livelyhood due to illegal immigration. You fail to see what they have done to those Americans who have been displaced in the work force by cheap illegal labor. Their families (American) suffer daily due to the lack of employment for the bread winners of these families, due to illegal workers who have pushed them out of the job market. This is one of those rare times I agree with the Republican politicians in Washington! Good night. P.S. You may respond, but do not take my lack of response as a sign I might agree with your argument, I just feel responding would be fruitless in nature concerning the countless conspiracies you seem to believe our government has perpetrated against us and you embrassing illegal aliens! There is no possible way to respond to those who believe that my response is simply a lack of understanding, when gentlemen and ladies I understand your motives and thoughts very thoroughly. Again I bid you good night and have a good weekend. K.W.
Don't be like that outback I like your comments I see your point here but doesn't anyone care about how this hurts the great US as a nation. They don't get more right than me so I don't understand why The union lovin liberals like this cheap labour coming in and driving down wages. I guess it's a sign of the times. Buy cheap products from China, cheap labour from Mexico and cheap energy from Canada and you don't have to work as hard and make as much. Is that it.
Well kend i too think its quite Simple. The illegals supply the the wealthy with a cheap form of labor but more important and often forgotten on this blog is that they also provide the democrats with a huge voting base that seems to get them elected again and again!
Yayyyyy...he's bacccckkkk! Welcome back Amigo...Mr. Ware..was beginning to worry about you! Yes, I get it! you are just not going to admit that 911 was an inside job...that's ok! But don't give up on your argument against 911 being an inside job! We need you to keep the controversy stirred up. You have done a great job, so far! Thanks!
You are not alone, though. Lots of people just can't get their head around it. An orthopedic surgeon? What does he know about crashing airplanes into tall buildings? Is he a Muslim? ;-} He's just as clueless as many other people about 911. Now, maybe if you had told me that you had a friend that was an airline pilot with many years experience flying airliners tell me that he would have been able to make that 270 degree descending crash into the Pentagon then I'd have to take that into consideration and match that against the testimony I've heard from other airline pilots (with something like about 40 years experience flying airliners) who said that they didn't think even they would have been able to pull off such a feat. And we are supposed to believe that Hanjour did this? Hanjour, who couldn't even fly a Cessna small airplane? With an airliner full of passengers and only a couple of other "hijackers" with box cutters? Somehow, I don't think the all of those passengers would have sat still for it. Now if the hijackers had used guns...maybe...but they didn't even according to the official conspiracy theory.
The whole hijacking with box cutters and being able to fly those planes and actually hit their targets is just so ridiculous. But you know what they always say...people are more apt to believe really, really big lies than small ones. Especially if those lies contain an exploitation of a propensity of many so-called Christians who have been propagandized to abhor Islam. Oh, some will falsely claim that they have nothing against Islam...yeah, right! And of course, not all Christians are deeply, internally, fearful or hateful of Muslims...just the insecure ones are, I suppose. Face it, many people are still fighting the Crusades. Baby Bush even had a Freudian slip when he actually used the term "Crusade" before we invaded the Middle East....when they were lying to us about "mushroom clouds" and "weapons of mass destruction" .. "chemical weapons".
How can people, after all the Republicans, the Neocons, the banksters, Wall Street, Corporations, the Military Industrial Complex, have done to us still believe in the biggest lie of all..the one they told us about 911?
I just saw the new movie The Great Gatsby today and it seemed very much like what I remembered from reading it about a zillion years ago. They kept showing that billboard of TJ Eckleburg...the Glasses...a very important symbol, I think, in the story. TJ Eckleburg...eyes of Zod forever peering down and watching the wealthy carry on so. I have, all these years, cannot look at Thom Hartmann without thinking about TJ Eckleburg. Watching...analyzing...taking notes...
DAnneMarc, pardon my taking umbrage at your post. I went back to see why you directed it at historywriter and believe you just grabbed it and reposted it (a week after the original) as a convenient put down. My first impression was that you were trying to set up a feud, but I think I overreacted.
To tell the truth, as much as I enjoy the banter on this site and respect many of the posters, there's something about the venue that brings out the worst in me at times and I'm embarrassed by it. I think a couple others have had the same problem; a few manage to keep cool (like Philip Henderson, bless his heart). But we've discussed some hot topics that can really excite strong emotions, like conspiracy theories and gun control. I don't want you or anyone else to think they've "driven me off". I'm just going to take a break for a while. I may wander back at some point.
No hard feelings, anyone, and especially you, DAnneMarc. Take care.
Ken Ware ~ Welcome back! I've missed you, buddy. It's just not the same around here without you.
On the subject of immigration we are in 100% agreement. I have nothing against immigrants coming to this country; however, with the current labor market this topic shouldn't even be discussed. Once free trade is repealed, our manufacturing base has been restored, and our vast unemployment problem resolved, then and only then can we discuss immigration reform. Any legislation before that would prove to turn a national disaster into a national catastrophe.
As far as 911 is concerned:Quote Palindromedary:You are not alone, though. Lots of people just can't get their head around it. An orthopedic surgeon? What does he know about crashing airplanes into tall buildings? Is he a Muslim? ;-} He's just as clueless as many other people about 911. Now, maybe if you had told me that you had a friend that was an airline pilot with many years experience flying airliners tell me that he would have been able to make that 270 degree descending crash into the Pentagon then I'd have to take that into consideration and match that against the testimony I've heard from other airline pilots (with something like about 40 years experience flying airliners) who said that they didn't think even they would have been able to pull off such a feat.
That pretty much says it all.
It's nice to know I made a orthopedic surgeon in Los Angeles laugh. The only other time I made any orthopedic surgeon laugh I had to pay for an appointment. Ha! Actually, like Palindromedary said, we are interested in the opinion of experienced pilots. I addressed the claims of Palindromedary to you because... Guess what? I strongly suspect you used to be a pilot. Is that not the case? If not, then why all the airplanes? Do you suffer from "Pilot envy?" Ha! If you have a pilot's license and have considerable flight experience--especially with jet planes--you are the perfect "expert" to support or refute this claim. You talk! We listen! Why would you ask the opinion of an orthopedic surgeon? That's like a Chef asking a Bricklayer what type of meat he should put in his chicken soup. Hell, if I were the Bricklayer I'd laugh too. "Ha! Why don't you use, swine!" (With a phoney French Chef accent added)
It's nice to know I made a orthopedic surgeon in Los Angeles laugh. The only other time I made any orthopedic surgeon laugh I had to pay for an appointment.
I strongly suspect you used to be a pilot. Is that not the case? If not, then why all the airplanes? Do you suffer from "Pilot envy?"
That's a funny one...nice play on words!
Ken you are right when you say the illegal immigrants are taking jobs but the also drive wages down. My son works in construction doing a job that in AZ, Texas or California a illegal would be doing getting paid nothing and he makes about $10,000 a month depending on how much over time he gets. We can only do construction six months of the year. Because there is no cheap labour here that is the going rate. Again this is the lefts cause yet they encourage this. Are they really doing it for votes if so that's a little un patriotic isn't it.
Off topic are you a GP yet? Ken
An Immigration Fantasy
A totally new approach to immigration is inevitable. A seven hundred mile double-layered fence needs modification, rather simply should be trashed. Instead introduce a seven hundred mile Plaza Civitas might be a start to the real cultural bridge that is the steps to the American dream, way long overdue.
Perhaps done in flagstone, green or blue would be nice. Large spaces for family rest areas, with patio furniture and electric, water, with transient convenience. Places to cook food plus be freshened, or even present individual personal commerce, entertainment, and especially serious government affairs. Very spacious land with the spirit in Alcalde Ordinario decorated in a Mexmerican blend of Aztec Trimming elegantly done to relieve the Heritage Foundation of Medieval backwards barbaric social culture that hopefully will diminishes into the next millennium.
A place of cultural exchange, open to the world, done with the passion of a Lady Liberty to span New Mexico, Arizona, and Southern California, Built with the pipelines of Fresh Water works, and organic farmland robust as far as can be. But to do this needs severe change. That might be to rid America of more severe Conservatives that only think fences and barbed wire made to slowly change America into a giant Gitmo.
Any plans for border security must take into consideration the fact that there are wildlife migration corridors all along the southwestern border, where hundreds of species cross between the U.S. and Mexico, including two rivers that have their sources in Mexico and flow north into the U.S. Interference with these corridors has already had adverse effects on several species, and it will only get worse.
Quote Outback:To tell the truth, as much as I enjoy the banter on this site and respect many of the posters, there's something about the venue that brings out the worst in me at times and I'm embarrassed by it.
Please don't be embarrassed my friend. What you said about historywriter I posted because the moment I read it for the first time after exchanging a good 30 or so posts with him I knew it was absolutely true and I wasted a couple of days for nothing. I don't intend to make that mistake again.
PhillipHenderson, however, I have the utmost respect for. I meant no insult to him. I just wanted to point out that no labor is "free" Some are cheaper than others, some are less favorable than others; but all come at a cost. Even cheap prison labor costs the taxpayer a good $30K + per year. Immigration labor has to be the most cost effective for employers because it doesn't cost a living wage of any kind. Workers live in squalid conditions and rely on shared means to survive much the way slaves had to in the past. Historywriter was correct in stating how wrong it was to enforce slave labor conditions with a whip; and, that wage labor is more humane. I agree with that. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day! However, wage labor also uses hurtful and harmful enforcement to control the labor force. Because the labor contract is hourly instead of long term, termination is a constant threat. Like an "imaginary whip" it hangs over the heads of every member of the work force every hour of the working day. Workers are expected to accept all manner of verbal abuse from their bosses without talking back. Women in the workforce are often expected to prostitute themselves to gain favor. Others, to use their femininity to advance their position. Built up tensions from the servitude during the workday often lead to spousal and child abuse as a vent for the frustrations encountered at work. Hours of lost revenue spent in the insanity of rush hour traffic also add to the physical and psychological abuse workers are expected to endure.
Is slavery preferable to this situation? Absolutely not! However, I do feel there must be a better way. Long term contractual labor for instance where an employer must go before a judge for permission to release a worker. That would eliminate the verbal abuse dished out by bosses and managers as well as remove the threat of suddenly being fired from the "imaginary whip" of the companies. Co-ops, worker share holding, and/or worker owned establishments are another fine alternative. Such companies already exist and examples of this are Zachary Pizza and In-and-Out Burger. Mandatory labor unions for every class of work would also be a more progressive approach to the current employment system. The immediate effects of this method would not only be to establish job security and benefits; but, would make illegal immigrant labor a thing of the past over night.
Again, don't get me wrong Philip Henderson. I don't want to go backwards, only forwards. I firmly believe that in the same way we look back at slavery and think, "My God, how could people ever have treated one another like that?" our children's children will look back at us someday, and say the very same thing. DAM
So many laws need to change. So many legislators on all sides need to get on the stick and without avarice, help to uphold and to create anew the beautiful “America” dream from sea to shining sea and throughout the world. Where do we start? Start by getting creative for fair elections. Start with getting rid of computerized (forever and always hackable) voting machines and initiating paper ballots. Get creative with monitoring the paper ballots and if any manipulating happens with the paper ballots, at least the rigging will most likely be ascertainable. Such is not the case with voting machines. Start by doing your own research on the election-fixing voting machines that have perhaps stolen your vote and given it to someone for whom you wouldn’t vote and didn’t vote and with no way to verify the deed.
Palindromedary. You might be right when you say:Quote Palindromedary: With an airliner full of passengers and only a couple of other "hijackers" with box cutters? Somehow, I don't think the all of those passengers would have sat still for it. Now if the hijackers had used guns...maybe...but they didn't even according to the official conspiracy theory.
However, without the flight recorders, speculation as to what transpired on the planes isn't going to convince skeptics.
Palindromedary, I have been thinking deeply about the box cutters. If left to only just those devices surely the other passengers would have had the upper hand. However, what if two hijackers grabbed a couple of stewardesses and put the cutters to their throat. That may have had a significant impact on the rest of the people in the plane. Incidentally, what if they announced they had a bomb on board and they would use it if necessary. Everyone would be fine if they just cooperate. There may be more to the 'on plane' drama than we are aware of. Ask yourself how you would pull off such a feat of 'people' control in a similar situation. Then ask yourself how you would react on the side of the victims. I think speculation on those box cutters, without the benefit of the flight recorders, is not going to help support the inside job theory.
However, focus on the pilot abilities is quite convincing. I remember several years ago purchasing Microsoft's flight simulator and the WWII simulator. It was a lot of fun. Taking off and flying that is. Maneuvering and landing were another story. I spent hours trying to land everything from a WWII twin wing prop plane to a modern 747. My greatest problem--that I never overcame--was simply targeting the run way. I would fly into it and crash, over it and crash, crash short of it, and sometimes crash right next to it. Flying the 747 was even harder. Remember, this is merely trying to land on a runway the size of several football fields. Hitting a small target like a building, or an even smaller target like the Pentagon would indeed take years of practice on the simulator; yet, these inexperienced pilots did it on the first pass. Personally, I want to hear more comments from real pilots--especially ones I can trust. Ken, if this is you, I can't wait to hear your opinion.
Quote DAnneMarc:However, without the flight recorders, speculation as to what transpired on the planes isn't going to convince skeptics.
..what if two hijackers grabbed a couple of stewardesses and put the cutters to their throat. That may have had a significant impact on the rest of the people in the plane. Incidentally, what if they announced they had a bomb on board and they would use it if necessary. Everyone would be fine if they just cooperate. There may be more to the 'on plane' drama than we are aware of.
Yes, of course you are right..it is only speculation**..and since the people on board the flights probably didn't suspect that they were all going to die by crashing into buildings they could very well have all tried to keep their cool hoping that they would land somewhere and feds would come in blazing to save the day. And, like you said, the lack of experience on flying (and more importantly..accurately guiding the planes to their targets) large airliners is just harder for skeptics to ignore...but of course that won't stop them. 911 inside job skeptics (the people who believe in the official conspiracy theory) are just about as brainwashed as those who watch Fox News. They have all just put their brains into "comfortably numb" but what we really need to so is "tear down the wall"!!
I have read that the typical speeds of airliners, when they descend for landing cut their speeds down to about 180 mph...then when they touch down their speeds are about 100 mph. I have read also that very bad things would happen if anyone tried to fly these airliners at the speeds at which they usually fly when they are up in a thinner atmosphere. The speed of the airliner which was reported to have been 350 mph of the one that hit the Pentagon (the others that hit the WTC buildings were at 400 mph) was a very odd anomaly because I have read that due to the very thick air at near ground level it would have made controlling the craft even more difficult. The air resistance at speeds of 350 mph would have been very strong at near ground level. Remember when they come in for a landing they are trying, and do, slow down. But trying to control an airliner at those speeds at near ground level would have made a significant difference...and unless you are trained for it...I doubt you would have been able to hit your target even one as large as the Pentagon. Any slight over correction, which is very common especially for people training to fly one of these large airliners, and you would not be able to accurately control the craft. How did Hanjour manage to expertly control that airliner so that it did not fall way short or fly over and miss the Pentagon? Especially after the aircraft made that descending 270 turn? Hanjour couldn't even fly a small plane! And what would be the effect of the stresses on the airliner from flying at 350 mph that close to the ground? I've heard it would rip the wings off (but I don't know those wings are usually very resilient to a great deal of stress). As you descend for a landing (ie: into thicker air) you are slowing down so the stress is all within designed parameters. That would not be so if flying at 350 mph close to the ground.
**And talk about speculation...is it not speculation on the part of the government, to begin with, that the "hijackers" used box cutters? How did they know this? How did they know that the hijackers were armed with box-cutters? From a call from the stewardess? And those phone calls..the ones from various people on board those "hijacked" planes while they were 20,000-30,000 feet in the air...it has been investigated and found that back then it was not possible to make cell phone calls from airliners at 20,000 to 30,000 feet in the air. Cell phones would not work up there. They do now...I am given to understand...but they didn't back then.
So, how did the government know that the "hijackers" used box cutters? Maybe they found some laying in the rubble several blocks away from the WTC towers just like they found one of the "hijackers" passports..unscathed by the raging fires in the towers. Everything else was turned to dust except for pieces of bones and metal beams. But here, they claim they found a passport. Unbelievable! The government sure knows how to plant evidence...they've been doing it for many decades. And people still, incredibly, believe the government even though they know how much the government and politicians lie and set up patsies.
And why did that airliner do a 270 degree turn in order to hit the side of the Pentagon that had been previously "hardened" by new construction? And why did it not hit the side where the Joints Chief of Staff...on the River Entrance side? You enter the River Entrance side and make a left when you pass the guard station. A set of double doors is the entrance to The Joint Chiefs of Staff. I have been in many of the places inside of the Pentagon but never inside the Joint Chiefs of Staff. I even had to work in the War Room once.
Palindromedary thinks:Quote Palindromedary: And talk about speculation...is it not speculation on the part of the government, to begin with, that the "hijackers" used box cutters? How did they know this? How did they know that the hijackers were armed with box-cutters? From a call from the stewardess? And those phone calls..the ones from various people on board those "hijacked" planes while they were 20,000-30,000 feet in the air...it has been investigated and found that back then it was not possible to make cell phone calls from airliners at 20,000 to 30,000 feet in the air. Cell phones would not work up there. They do now...I am given to understand...but they didn't back then.
Wow! My friend, your scrutinization is most disturbing, indeed!
However, my dear friend Palindromedary further states:Quote Palindromedary: But here, they claim they found a passport. Unbelievable! The government sure knows how to plant evidence...they've been doing it for many decades. And people still, incredibly, believe the government even though they know how much the government and politicians lie and set up patsies.
You are quite a fountain of info my dear friend! I deeply regret my previous post!
More power to you, palindromedary. Your research so far is impeccable. (Especially concerning Pink Floyd.) Kudos to you, my friend! Kudos!!!
DAnneMarc: Thanks man! Yeah, I really liked Pink Floyd..especially those videos that went along with the music.
On today's (5/11/13) Breaking the Set:
starting at minute: 15:25
Abby Martin: "Have you ever come home or woken up in the middle of the night convinced that someone else had been there? Maybe a trinket slightly out of place or a frame tilted or a pillow tussled? Well, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. In fact, hundreds of times every year are scenes of the FBI sneaking in houses and office buildings to plant bugs completely undetected. They are called "Tactical Operations" teams (or TacOPs). And their methodology is outlined in a book "The Secrets of the FBI" written by Ronald Kessler. Well, a while back, I happened to hear Kessler on NPR describing at what length they would go to do a break-in and gather information on the (DO?) (DL?). This broadcast was so disturbing that I just had to share it with you guys. Well, these FBI TacOPs guys often uses 10 guys at a time, who spent their entire careers (???) being cat burglers and eavesdroppers. Now, 10 people seem like a lot to bug a house but according to Kessler the planning is so intense that it takes 10 weeks to prepare it's break in. Let's take a listen.
Kessler: They each have a specialty. One will just watch to see if anybody is coming once they are in. One will take photographs of what the premise is like when they go in. If they have to move a chair, let's say, they put a tape where the chair was and they move it back. If they have to disturb, say something like a desk, and if there is some dust on the desk, so they bring their own dust to replace the dust that they moved. And they bring a vacuum cleaner, very small and very powerful, to vacuum up any..let's say if they have to put a bug in a wall and they have to do some drilling. And they have a special algorhytm to match the paint on the wall incase they needed to touch up the wall.
Abby Martin: Wow! Paint over and fake dust. These people have really thought of everything. And guess what they do if the person at home has a pet. Well, they tranquilize them, of course! Yup! They actually consult with veterinarians..take a photo of the pet to get a precise dosage. But don't worry...they also have a "wake up" drug, in case the owner comes back early, to make sure the pet is alert when the owner gets back.
skipped some here:
Kessler: If the people come back early, the "keyholers" can alert someone to cause and accident or just have a cop pull the person over for some trumped up charge...to delay.
skipped some here:
Abby Martin goes on to talk about how various devices, TVs, cell phones, play stations, appliances in the kitchen or elsewhere in the house can be connected to the computer and act to spy on people in their homes. And with the loop holes in FISA and the Patriot Act spying on us has never been easier.
And you've probably heard by now of the $45 million hacker heist of banks recently. Here is an arrest warrant for one of the guys who was part of the racket. And there are a lot of people who have participated in this...what is called a Card and Pin heist. They get stolen ATM bank card numbers and pin numbers from some Russian hacker who has these fake ATM bank cards made from various non bank cards that have magnetic strips on them..like hotel access cards. They have managed to hack it so that the limits are increased way more than the normal daily limit. This guy, with a warrant out for him, wore a pull down knitted hat from Pizza Hut (incidentally...where he actually worked) when he withdrew money at ATMs. He managed to get over $5000 at one ATM all in a matter of minutes. He went to another one and got over $3000. And there is a whole army out there doing this. After amassing certain amounts they either do an electronic transfer to Russia or they actually travel to Russia to hand over the money and get their cuts.
Palindromedary ~ Nice! People making a profitable career with Government jobs out of violating the Constitutional rights of our citizens. If it wasn't true it would sound like a joke. What kind of a pathetic example of fascism have we become? Where is that Constitutional Law Professor we put into the highest office to fix this nonsense? No, my friend, no house so decisively divided against itself can stand for very long. These fascist Patsy's just aren't going to get it until they are escorted up to a guillotine. Use it or lose it.
The ATM heists are a different concern. Good reason not to keep substantial amounts of money in a bank. (Of course, the best reason not to do so is the crappy interest banks pay.) Nevertheless, never put more in a bank that the FDIC can cover. Besides, leaving more money than that lying around in a bank account actually costs you money--did you know that? You actually lose money saving it in a bank. Yes, my friend! That's the bank alone robbing you independent of any hackers. The simple fact is that bank interest does not keep up with the increase of the cost of living; or, the devaluation of the dollar. Therefore, either way, keep money in a bank and lose money.
I suggest using your local bank as a convenient safe and for its ATM, on line, and checking services only. Don't try to consolidate a family fortune in a bank. Bad idea! Just keep your loose change, pocket money, and a small emergency fund available. Put everything else in Treasury Bills, IRAs, or high yield low risk, diversified Mutual Funds. Don't put all your eggs in one basket--diversify as much as possible. Consult with several good investment advisers. Set it and forget it. Remember, a watched pot never boils. The market goes up and down. Don't expect to reach your goals over night; rather, look 10-20 years down the road. Keep all your paper statements. Happy investing!
DAnneMarc: Sounds like some very good advice. I guess there is a certain amount of risk in just about everything we do...just can't get away from it. Some things are, traditionally, riskier than other things and one often reaps the rewards for taking a chance. But, of course, they can often lose...big time. Putting ones money in a bank savings or checking account that was FDIC insured was considered about the safest thing one could do. And, of course, there was a limit on how much FDIC would insure in any one account. But the FDIC just would not be able to handle any really big banks going under.
I wonder if we are not being set up for a really, really big scam...not done by some illusive Russian hackers..or Chinese hackers..although they may be used as patsies to blame while the real big criminals, the banks themselves, empty our accounts and blame it on those scarey foreigners. I have no doubt that rogue hackers are leaching money out of some accounts but that could be used as a prelude to more organized leaching while pointing fingers somewhere else. After all, they played that game already when they tried to blame 911 totally on 19 Muslim hijackers and OBL. If these ruthless bastards, the real treasonous powers within our own country in collaboration, perhaps, with other countries like Israel, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia, could pull off 911 and get many people to believe it was someone else then they may very well go for hijacking all of our bank accounts and get people to believe it was someone else who did it.
And one might try to find safe refuge in some other institutions other than banks...but, really, they are just as vulnerable...if they have electronic funds transfers...and they all do. Remember the Savings and Loans scandal? They were also once believed to be a great alternative to banks. And that was back when the big thieves, once caught, would pay the price...or at least some did. The big thieves today are doing their dastardly deeds right under the noses of those who are supposed to be protecting us. And they are thumbing their noses at us all. They know that no one has the balls to prosecute them. We are headed in to uncharted territory of thick as thieves reality. A new Twilight Zone of financial horrors that will result in MegadeAths☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠.
Palindromedary ~ Had to reread your 911 post a couple of times to wrap my head around what you are saying. If I understand correctly, you're saying the phone calls from the plane were phony? Not possible with 2001 cell phone technology? I always wondered how the calls got recorded. Usually, if your loved one is in trouble, the last thing you think about is recording their call for help. Maybe they used the planes phone? No, the news did say cell phones. And why would hijackers allow any mayday calls that could jeopardize the mission? If so, why didn't they do it themselves with the cockpit radio? Turn off the planes radio and ask passengers to use cell phones? Doesn't make sense. Unless...
Unless the whole hijacking scenario was bogus. Perhaps that remote control technology you mentioned was the only real 'hijacker' involved. Perhaps all the real passengers--including the pilots and the patsy hijackers--had no clue as to what was happening until the last moment of rapid descent. Perhaps the unaccounted for 'black boxes' were full of discussions in the cockpit as to what was wrong with the planes controls and why the radio wasn't working. That would certainly explain why despite the accounts of eyewitnesses the 'black boxes' were not 'officially' found and yet a pristine passport was.
Wow Palindromedary, your facts do fit the events better than the 'official' story. That passport is the really hard piece of the puzzle to swallow; yet, in and of itself, it certainly has the footprint of a Government cover-up. Remember that magic, pristine bullet that conveniently rolled off the gurney of Texas Governor Connally at the Park Memorial Hospital emergency room just after the assassination of President Kennedy? For anyone not familiar with the 'magic bullet theory' here is a summary from wikipedia:
THE MAGIC BULLET THEORYQuote Wikipedia: According to the Single Bullet Theory, a three-centimeter (1.2")-long copper-jacketed lead-core 6.5-millimeter rifle bullet fired from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository passed through President Kennedy’s neck and Governor Connally’s chest and wrist and embedded itself in the Governor’s thigh. If so, this bullet traversed 15 layers of clothing, 7 layers of skin, and approximately 15 inches of tissue, struck a necktie knot, removed 4 inches of rib, and shattered a radius bone. The bullet was found on a gurney in the corridor at the Parkland Memorial Hospital, in Dallas, after the assassination. The Warren Commission found that this gurney was the one that had borne Governor Connally. This bullet became a key Commission exhibit, identified as CE 399. Its copper jacket was completely intact. While the bullet's nose appeared normal, the tail was compressed laterally on one side.
In its conclusion, the Warren Commission found "persuasive evidence from the experts" that a single bullet caused the President's neck wound and all the wounds in Governor Connally. It acknowledged that there was a "difference of opinion" among members of the Commission "as to this probability", but stated that the theory was not essential to its conclusions and that all members had no doubt that all shots were fired from the sixth floor window of the Depository building.
Oh, how that passport reminds me of this theory.
Yes, Palindromedary, you never cease to amaze me as the fountain of information you are. I would be hard pressed to dispute your data. I'll let our friend Ken worry about that. For now I conclude:
Warren Commission + 911 Commission = B. S. Commission
Truly a National disgrace!
Palindromedary ~ Your monetary fears are well founded. I too am concerned. This country has already experienced the sting of organized financial institutional crime in many ways and in grand scales. The majority of the criminals go without prosecution. Whenever a criminal gets away with a crime they always come back and try to outdo their previous deed. They will continue till caught. It is only a matter of time.
I feel the only way to protect ourselves is with diversifying our resources. Do not rely soley on banks, Don't put all your eggs in the same basket. Spread them around. As the saying goes, you can steal some of the money some of the time but you can't steal it all. Protect yourself with diversification. It is the only way.
Palindromedary ~ Well, that was in interesting read. The repeater hypothesis blows the phony phone call theory out of the water. It makes too much sense that business men would carry such a device for emergency phone calls.
However, tell me more about that pristine passport; or, "Magic Passport," if you will. That piece of evidence I find unbelievable. There's no way I'm going to swallow that a passport flew out of the pocket--or luggage--of one of the hijackers, through the flaming fuselage of the airplane, gallons of ignited jet fuel, through the inferno of the top of the world trade center and landed undamaged on the street below. I don't believe it for a second. What an insult to the intelligence of the American people. Black boxes get disintegrated; passport survives. You gotta be kidding me!
DAnneMarc: Here's one you might be interested in..
A German security consultant, who's also a commercial pilot, has demonstrated tools he says could be used to hijack an airplane remotely, using just an Android phone.
Of course, they didn't have Androids back in 2001 but I bet they (we're not just talking about hackers here) had all the latest technology available to them). Like, not everyone can get a hold of nano-thermite..but powerful people in the government sure could have. Regular thermite..not a problem...nano-thermite..a problem.
Here is a 2003 business-related article about airphones and cell phones that has nothing to do with 911, directly, but makes a statement that indicates that cell phones and/or wifi was only useful at either end of air travel but not at 35,000 feet. (They did have airphones, though, and this 2003 article talks about how the airlines spent a lot of bucks on the airphones that nobody wanted to use because they were charging big bucks for placing calls.) If cell phones had worked in the air...people would have known about it, and despite airline warnings about not using them, they would have anyway and the secret would have been out of the bag...everyone would have sneaked calls in flight with their cell phones.( I remember even trying this once with my cell phone and it didn't work.) But this didn't happen because cell phones didn't work at altitudes above 1,000 feet in the air.
Wifi is like the cell phone, only useful at either end of travel,
One caller from the hijacked planes said that he was calling from his cell phone in the restroom. How could he be using his cell phone from the restroom when cell phones don't work from 30,000 feet in the air? I don't think they put airphones in the restrooms back then. They may have had them at the backs of the seats but not in the restrooms. So the call was meant to say "cell phone" and not "airphone".
And here is a good read: It is an alternative theory of what happened...Don't know if I necessarily adhere to this yet...haven't read it all yet.
"Hello, mom! This is Mark Bingham, your son"
As if the idea that someone would call up their mom and have to say this is first and last name? And further say that "it was her son"...sounds very strange doesn't it?
There is a rather large blunder on the part of CNN & the AP Press; Mark Binghams Exif/IPTC data shows as 8/30/2001. Some 13 days before 9/11, complete with a working bio and obituary, all carefully prepared, or in this case, not so carefully prepared some two weeks before 9/11! It is no wonder that CNN went removing so many hundreds of pictures from their CNN Memorial page, only weeks after breaking the Mike Rivero/John Wenckus story. Mark Binghams picture being one of them.
The "official magic bullet theory" and the "official magic passport theory" or how to plant incriminating evidence and get away with it....
Palindromedary ~ If you could please, I'd appreciate if we could limit the 911 talk to the facts. I'm already a laughing stock amongst the orthopedic community in Orange County. I'd prefer not to spread the giggles and smirks to the gastrointestinal and cardiology communities as well. I may never again be able to get sick or to enter into a hospital down there. Besides, if Ken Ware ever gets a hold of me I may need immediate attention at one of those fine facilities.
Palindromedary ~ Concerning that "Magic Passport" link you posted:
That was interesting the way Joe raised the same concerns I did. However, I don't know if you read all the comments. On of the commenters claims to have witnessed a high speed airline crash and described the crash scene as being littered with shoes with feet still inside and wallets. All not affected by the crash or the ensuing fire. He says he's not surprised to hear someone found a passport on the street of the WTC crash. I'd have to see such an event myself to swallow that story though.
And guess who founded Akamai, a successful computer company**, which has also been tied in with Sayeret Matkal "a deep penetration unit that has been involved in assassinations, the theft of foreign signals intelligence materials, and the theft and destruction of foreign nuclear weaponry. It is best known for the 1976 rescue of 106 passengers at Entebbe Airport in Uganda.
Daniel Lewin, founder of Akamai, was a former member of the Israel Defense Force Sayeret Matkal, Israel’s most successful Special Operations unit. And it was alleged that he was shot or stabbed on flight 77 by Satam Al Suqami....the guy whose passport was found...the magic passport that survived when nothing else did. Someone like this couldn't have taken on an attacker with a box cutter?
"FAA and American Airline officials will later deny the gun story and suggest that Lewin is probably stabbed to death instead. [Washington Post, 3/2/2002; United Press International, 3/6/2002]"...yeah, stabbed to death with a box cutter...uh..huh!!
But it was later postulated that Al Suqami was seated behind Daniel Lewin (now just how convenient is that? sounds confabulated to me..did the hijackers know that they sat behind a former Sayeret Matkal soldier?) and when he tried to get up to stop the hijacking, he was cut on the throat from behind (well, it sounds more plausible anyway). At least, that's the newest story I've heard. It would be pretty hard to "stab" someone with a box cutter from the front. And I just can't imagine that there weren't some former high school or college football jocks or other brave all-Americans who would have reacted to that kind of violence. What? they just sat there while some Arab kills a guy with a box cutter? Oh, but we are told that that is what happened on flight 93...brave American's testosterone finally kicks in so that we could have some heroes to distract us from the 3 other planes that didn't have any? It all sounds contrived!
**Akamai's network is one of the world's largest distributed-computing platforms, responsible for serving between 15 and 20 percent of all web traffic.
The company was founded in 1998 by Daniel M. Lewin (then a graduate student at MIT) and MIT applied mathematics professor Tom Leighton, together with Jonathan Seelig and Randall Kaplan. Lewin was killed aboard American Airlines Flight 11, which crashed in the September 11 attacks of 2001. Leighton currently serves as Akamai's CEO.
Palindromedary ~ Concerning Mark Bingham. If there is proof that his obituary was prepared by CNN and AP 13 days prior to 911 that is a big screw up and the evidence--if, indeed, it exists--should be shared immediately. If not, it is more hearsay--let it go.
As far as the call with him identifying himself as, "This is Mark Bingham, your son." is concerned--yes it is cause for suspicion. Very unusual. However, I happen to know from personal experience that the name Mark is almost as common as the name John; even, in one family. You could have a John Sr. and John Jr. for instance. There might also be an uncle John, or a cousin John. It is also common to have friends of the family with the same first name. His mother could also have been hard of hearing and confuse her son's voice with others frequently. Unusual, yes; but unbelievable, no.
DAnneMarc: Yes, I know there is a lot of stuff out there that may just be garbage...and there is a whole lot of other stuff that is totally insane for sure. Just because I post some of this stuff doesn't mean that I absolutely believe in all of it...just that they are ideas that may have some merit...maybe not. I have, so far I think, avoided posting things originating from web sites like Rense.com or Alex Jones web sites although they can provide leads to their sources that sometimes originate from more valid and believable sources.
Yeah, I know what you mean...if you completely tow the line and regurgitate the official conspiracy theory...no matter how many holes it has in it ...you are safe from ridicule from people who think they are saner than you. The 911 thumpers want you to believe their official dogma and everyone else is condemned to burn in nano-thermite hell. The trick is to do what the Conversos did when they were persecuted...while you are getting your feet looked at...just pretend that you believe in the official conspiracy theory and you will have nothing to worry about. Just don't refuse to eat a pork sandwich if they offer it to you! I guess I am start to use mixed metasploits here...so I'd better get some rest to recover. ;-}
Quote Palindromedary:Daniel Lewin, founder of Akamai, was a former member of the Israel Defense Force Sayeret Matkal, Israel’s most successful Special Operations unit. And it was alleged that he was shot or stabbed on flight 77 by Satam Al Suqami....the guy whose passport was found...the magic passport that survived when nothing else did. Someone like this couldn't have taken on an attacker with a box cutter?
But it was later postulated that Al Suqami was seated behind Daniel Lewin (now just how convenient is that? sounds confabulated to me..did the hijackers know that they sat behind a former Sayeret Matkal soldier?) and when he tried to get up to stop the hijacking, he was cut on the throat from behind (well, it sounds more plausible anyway).
Now that is quite an interesting mix of facts, theories and speculation. However, no matter how you slice that sandwich, the lettuce falls all over the place. Changing facts that only lead to more questions are a great cause for concern. You are still left with the question, if the hijackers knew who they were sitting behind, who in the Airline arranged for that convenient juxtaposition. Now thats a tasty bit of conspiracy facts! Bravo, Palindromedary! Bravo!! By the way, no, I don't believe any of these young jokers could have overpowered this ex commando. Maybe with a gun, or by surprise only. What a huge hole in the official story.
Quote Palindromedary:I guess I am start to use mixed metasploits here...so I'd better get some rest to recover. ;-}
Same here, buddy. It's been educational and fun. Thanks, and have a great Sunday/Mothersday ;-}
DAnneMarc: Of course you are right about this Mark talking to his mother example may not really amount to much...and can really be chalked up as merely slightly odd...but nothing more. And of course, in a court of law, when someone is being tried for murder...they'd never use such oddities to prove the guy guilty...would they? And then when the prosecutor presents all of the other oddities and non-sequiturs and holes in the defendant's story..including eyewitness accounts..video and audio evidence..put together with motive, means, and opportunity...well...they are going to hang the guy for sure. But too big to fail..especially when you own most of the major news media propaganda machines...means that you can manipulate the jury and blackmail or threaten the judge and the prosecutor to turn their heads and look the other way while the perp walks back into the streets to do it again, and again. Little clues add up to evidence. Constantly giving our government the benefit of the doubt will keep us all from knowing what really happened on 911. The real perps will walk the streets to do it again and again. They will continue to get stronger...more powerful...and invincible. Yes, we can listen to the clues, reject the ones that just are too weak or just don't fit and not reject the ones that are more plausible.
House claim of impeachable offense in Benghazi is just memo to Hillary: Don't run or we'll do unto you as we did unto Bill and would like to do unto Barack. Also memo to Obama: No prosecution of Bush for real crimes or we'll impeach you just for being you. They are just about the politics of personal destruction because they have nothing to offer otherwise. Well, you know it didn't work with Bill Clinton, did it.