SCOTUS upholds Monsanto's patents.

According to the U.S. Supreme Court, Monsanto has the right to control our food supply. In a unanimous ruling released this morning, the nine Justices sided with the agricultural giant, and held that an Indiana farmer violated Monsanto's patent by planting seeds produced from genetically modified soybeans. Although the farmer, Vernon Hugh Bowman, acquired the seeds from a grain elevator, they contained Monsanto's patented genes, and thus the court found that planting them was a patent violation.

In Justice Elena Kagan's 10-page opinion, the Court deemed the soybean seeds to be copies of Monsanto's technology. Kagan wrote, “If simple copying were a protected use, a patent would plummet in value after the first sale of the first item containing the invention.” And further, the Court reasoned that allowing patented seeds to be used this way, “would result in less incentive for innovation than Congress wanted.” Apparently, the Court believes this “incentive for innovation” is important enough to allow one company to control our food supply. Currently, Monsanto's seeds account for 93 percent of soybeans and 86 percent of corn grown in our nation.

Less than a week ago, the Think Progress Blog reported on a study that found this Supreme Court to be the most pro-business court in at least 65 years, and this ruling exemplifies that study. By upholding Monsanto's right to have a monopoly on our food supply, the Court has, once again, ruled that profit is more important than people.

If the Courts won't stand up to corporate power, then we must push our elected representatives to start standing up for the people. Call Congress and the White House and tell them that no company has the right to control our food supply.

Comments

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 7 years 24 weeks ago
#1

Kend, I have reply to your question/comment on yesterday's blog.

Thank you.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 7 years 24 weeks ago
#2

A unanimous decision, there must be something more to this. Some of those justices, no doubt, didn't like making that decision but felt bound by law to make it. In fact, in this case they cited the intent of Congress as their basis for deciding, "constitutionality" seemed to have nothing to do with this one so SCOTUS was acting just as Thom would have it.

The law needs to be changed and at least some of those justices will act accordingly.

leighmf's picture
leighmf 7 years 24 weeks ago
#3

Monsanto is just part of the plan for Centralization of Agriculture whose other players include Archer Daniels Midland, The German American Joint Stock Land Bank, Fleming Foods, Walt Disney Farms, DuPont and food transporters and chain stores organized under various corporate titles which are alter-entities.

Considering that soybeans were first introduced in the 1920's as a baby pig and lamb fattener, it is amazing how they have been marketed as a staple of an already obese population.

Soybeans were once considered a useful crop for famine nations- easy to grow and a protein source, and fattening by virtue of its hormones.

Before we were drinking and eating soy, it was used for paint thinner, varnish, machine oil, paint, printers ink, and mostly industrial purposes.

http://www.frankkryder.com/soyeaters.htm 1943 Article introducing soy to Congress.

We can all afford to stop eating anything soy or corn if that's the way they want to be. Just don't buy it. Just say, No Thank You, to Soy.

Kend's picture
Kend 7 years 24 weeks ago
#4

sorry mark s did you repley i didn't see it. do you mean Fridays?

Kend's picture
Kend 7 years 24 weeks ago
#5

Ok I got it Mark Oops. I don't get thanks here, it through me off.

If you can't protect patents no one will do any research. I can't beleive how anti business you all are. Justices make decisions on the law, not on who appointed them. At least I hope they do.

mrohrer 7 years 24 weeks ago
#6

Label GMO's or better yet, it they are GMO free, then label that. If that's how they want to play the game. Buy local and organic that's the best way to confront these bastards. And also who needs corn and soy. There are better alternatives and that are healtier.

ptg0's picture
ptg0 7 years 24 weeks ago
#7

I dont mind, it strenghtens my own patents and provides more protection against the scumbag corporations that have tried to rip me off. On another note, I dont remember any stalling by democRATS when the AWOL coke head pushed those two POS's thru.

Then again, I dont remember hearing any democRATs protest when that senile jackass raygun made "for profit" health care legal and low and behold, 27 years later a democRAT POS makes the failed republiCON health care plan law.

Politics today consists of nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black.

Both and all need to go.

Cliff Schrock's picture
Cliff Schrock 7 years 24 weeks ago
#8

Maybe we need to consider "open source seedware". Surely there are enough expired hybrid seeds to feed most of us.

Best to you Tom. Listen almost every day.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 24 weeks ago
#9

As long as we are a civilization of population growth out of control we should expect this sort of legislation in the future. If we cannot manage our population we cannot manage our planet. Only a solution such as that which Monsanto proposes will sustain life. Of course, given the current rate of population growth even such a successful solution is only going to be a temporary one. Unless we address the underlying causes for the problem we ignore a far greater problem; and participate in allowing it to get even worse.

robinkilgore's picture
robinkilgore 7 years 24 weeks ago
#10

I'm crushed and outraged to learn of this SCOTUS decision...but, not surprised. After all, the SCOTUS also gave us the first (s)elected President in our history, (with devastating worldwide consequences that are ongoing), the heinous Citizen's United decision, and now, this frightening decision that further erodes our future health and wellbeing as a Nation.

I'm so disappointed in mainstream media for failing to make this issue more widely known and understood by the public, particularly since it has such huge repercussions upon our very food supply.

We must push for full disclosure in labeling to identify which foods have gmo's in them so that we can make informed choices in our purchases for consumption.

Thanks, Thom, for reporting this unfortunate and irresponsible decision by the SCOTUS.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 7 years 24 weeks ago
#11

I did mean Friday's Kend. That's the lefty perspective you asked for, I think.

With regards to patents the idea is there should be some limits, that they shouldn't extend to the food supply giving ag business control of it and, as is not implausible with the current situation with agribusiness, all plant life on the Earth. It's very questionable if all that genetic engineering has done society rather than the profiteers too much good - and business should, in the very least, be regulated to be beneficial to society rather than allowed to be beneficial to the profiteers at the expense of society. Personally, I and, no doubt, most of us on this blog, long for - and for a myriad of reasons - the days when ALL food was "organic".

michaelmoore052's picture
michaelmoore052 7 years 24 weeks ago
#12

There should be a proviso in the patent language that genetically modified products must not combine with non-modified organisms if the modifications will carry over into progeny. If these modified attributes become part of the pool of wild genes, as witnessed in samplings, then there should be no protection under the law for said progeny. Fairness is central to law.

This all gives new meaning to "Food Court."

jazzyjoy's picture
jazzyjoy 7 years 24 weeks ago
#13

Wonder what the Tea Party christians think. Isn't this taking god out of the creaator roll and selling it to monsanto?

leighmf's picture
leighmf 7 years 24 weeks ago
#14

If SCOTUS eats crow, is it singular for Scrotum or is it an adjective meaning "as if one were going to eat crow" ?

historywriter's picture
historywriter 7 years 24 weeks ago
#15

That's a singularly selfish point of view. This patent does not allow their patented seeds to simply reproduce themselves; you know, plant a seed and you get a crop and use the seeds from that to plant next season's crop. Are you familiar with this process? Monsanto has created these seeds so that they do not reproduce. Monsanto playing GOD. Did you know that companies are trying to put a patent on your genes? You like that idea?

As bad as politics is, it cannot be reduced to the pot calling the kettle black. That's just a tactic. Most politics goes on behind the scenes and played by those who stand to benefit from it--like Monsanto, the oil and gas companies, the mining companies, big ag, and hundreds of others.

.

historywriter's picture
historywriter 7 years 24 weeks ago
#16

Here's the real reason that Monsanto want to keep its patent--and why it's a bad idea:

I'm quoting from another source:

What makes Monsanto different is its US seed monopoly. Well documented by market authorities, Plaintiffs point out that, “Over 85-90% of all soybeans, corn, cotton, sugar beets and canola grown in the U.S. contains Monsanto’s patented genes.”

Through its monopoly, Monsanto has spiked the cost of seeds. In the past decade, corn seed prices increased 135% and soybean prices 108%, the suit asserts. As recently as 1997, soybean farmers spent only 4-8% of their income on seeds, “while in 2009, farmers who planted transgenic soybeans spent 16.4 percent of their income on seeds.”

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 7 years 24 weeks ago
#17

KEND...There is waaaaay more to life than "buisness". However it doesn't surprise me that you - a Right Wing Corporate Capitalist, (is it fair to say Christian too?) - would take the side of corporate greed.

The good news is there is a growing number of people - with a conscience - of all ages and from all walks of life that are organizing against greedy companies such as Monsantos, DuPont, ConAg, BP, Exon, GE, Wal-Mart, etc. More and more people, Left and Right, are seeing the demise of unregulated Capitalism. It is true that for now these corporations are getting away with "murder", but it isn't anything that hasn't been seen before in this country...Companies wanting to take take take without any concern for the wellbeing of mankind; all that is important is making a profit by any means necessary...Screw the enviroment, screw life, screw fair trade, as long as they - the greedy Robber Barons - keep the board members/share holders rich...I wonder who these swine are???Could it be members of Congress...the Supreme Court...You!?!?
No matter...The days of Corporate Personhood and unregulated Capitalism are doomed. That much I am sure of.
So go ahead Kend, rape and pillage, take all you can; cause that's all that matters...Right???Lots of money and "things".

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 7 years 24 weeks ago
#18

Tea Party Christians!!!Now that's an oxymoron if I have ever heard one. And for them to "think"...You must be joking!!!

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 7 years 24 weeks ago
#19

Here in S.W. Florida, MARKSULYS, I have noticed an increase in local Farmers Markets that offer a large selection of locally grown organic fruits, veggies, eggs, dairy, and herbs. Educated/Conscience consumers are the reason.
In the tri-county area where I live there are 5 local farms, and over a dozen Farmers markets, many of which are owned and opperated by the Quakers. Some are even open 6 days a weeks while others are only on certain days. Not only is the food 100%organic (meaning No Spray, and NonGMO), but the prices are much lower, i.e. .99c/lb for tomatoes instead of the $2.99/lb that you pay in the corporate grocery chains.
...a step in the right direction.

delster's picture
delster 7 years 24 weeks ago
#20

I have discovered I have stage two kidney disease. My kidneys do not have the ability to deal with the kind of nutritian widely available today from restaurants. and grocery stores. I discovered this through exercise as a result of my inability to sustain a level of performance even though I've been exercising for over 30 years. My blood lacks enough red blood cells to deliver enough oxygen to my muscles. I complained to my DR. who ran blood tests which revealed my problem. It is like the inverse of blood doping for an athlete. I restricts my performance and makes it near impossilbe for me to lose weight.

This is a result of processed food and genetically altered food which my kidneys cannot deal with. I now have to restrict animal protien from my diet becuase of the way animals are fed, I cannot drink any soda because of HFCS, and I'm pretty much a vergitarian. The vegies I consume have to be organically grown. As a result of diet I now have increased endurance for aerobic exercise for longer durations and my red blood cell count is normal. The diet is not easy to maintain and grocery shopping is more time consuming. Pretty cool Huh ! All as a result of PIG corporations who put profit above human concern. Recently the Dahli Lama during a lecture in Portland Oregon announced that our concern should be for the good of all society instead of for profit. I remember that being the basis for the consitution unless the constitution has changed.

Currently we are havng a ballot for flouridating the water in Portland Oregon when most tooth decay is a result bad nutrition. And why would a dentist support such a ballot measure ? The deck of justice is definitely stacked against us. Justice in the US is biased toward the top 1% of anyone in the world. The bottom line for most US citizens is to watch what you eat and who's preparing it for you and who is growing and processing the food.

mathboy's picture
mathboy 7 years 24 weeks ago
#21

It's ridiculous that the Supreme Court wouldn't recognize the difference between seeds and other patented products. When Monsanto's products are used as recommended, they makes copies of themselves. So how can it be illegal to use the product to make copies of it? All patents on life forms should be voided.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 24 weeks ago
#22
Quote delster: Recently the Dahli Lama during a lecture in Portland Oregon announced that our concern should be for the good of all society instead of for profit.

Yes, my friend, who can argue with the Dalai Lama. The good of all indeed should be all of our goals; and, nothing else.

My, brother, I pray you enjoy greater success with your fitness regimen. Good health and happiness, always!!

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 7 years 24 weeks ago
#23

My great grandmother who past away from "natural causes", aka "old age" at the age of 98 back in 1996 was from a time period when there wasn't a such thing as "processed food" and Genetically Modified/Engineered. Everything was bought or grown fresh, eaten fresh or canned for storage. Even as a young boy I remember her prepairing foods from scratch...She made THE BEST homemade peanut butter cookies.

How sad...Society (you, me, etc.) is so caught up in "making" a dollar, which doesn't come easy and, let's face it, has no value, that we count on someone else to prepair our food for us. And to do so is on such a GRAND scale that it takes corporations like Monsantos, ConAg, Dupont, etc to do so...How else can McDonalds, Taco Bell, and KFC, etc serve a billion people a day!?!? How else can commercial grocery stores keep a stock of tomatoes, corn, green beans, etc. year round?

For over 20 years - I am 41 - I have questioned such corporate mass production of agriculture. When I grow/pick my own organic vine ripe tomatoes I have to eat them, prepair, or can them within 3 days other wise they go bad. Most commercial tomatoes (hot house) have been off the vine for over a week before they make it to the grocery store for sale...Their colour is bright, skin unblemmished...but they have no flavour...These are not tomatoes! What are they???Genetically Engineered.

Kend's picture
Kend 7 years 24 weeks ago
#24

Nachos, Of course there is way more to life than business. I coached minor hockey for 15 years. Started a hockey school for underprivileged kids. We take our grandchildren every weekend over night at least one night. I probaly volunteered more than 95% of people do. Just because I think that filing a patent and having all your hard work and investment protected is right How does that make me un caring? The fact is the people who bitch the most about corporations are the ones who buy from them. I can only speak for Canada but I can tell you the environment is well protected here.

I here all this crap about not enough food in the world yet we are spending a fortune on turning that food into fuel. Does that only see stupid to me.

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 7 years 24 weeks ago
#25

KEND...Explain what you mean when you say; "The fact is the people who bitch the most about corporations are the ones that buy from them."

I myself will not even walk into a Wal Mart, I do not dine at McDonalds, Burger King, Taco Bell, Wendy's, KFC, Sonic. Chilis, Applebees, Out Back Steak House, Long Horn, etc, etc. I shop for locally grown 100% organic produce whenever possible; which has become more and more abundent over the last 8-10 years. I try to shop locally owned and operated whenever possable. I look for companies and brands that support Fair Trade.
The real challenge though for everyone is that it is becoming increasingly harder and harder to send a message of disapproval by boycotting, i.e. The garden company Scotts owns many brands and makes many products including ones that state they are "organic", yet when you purchase that product your dollars go towards the profit of a company that is for the most part not enviromentally & humanitarily sound.

To answer your question regarding fileing a patend to protect ones hard work...How does that make you uncaring? It doesn't necessarily make you "uncaring" Heck Al Capone gave back to his community but he still was a greedy crook...it's all about what ones true and honest motives are about...Are you doing it just to get rich and own the market, or are you doing it for the greater good of all mankind??? If it is for the later then one would want others to get involved too...Not monopolize the industry and sue the little guy!

Now go volunteer at a soup kitchen...It looks good! ;)

Kend's picture
Kend 7 years 24 weeks ago
#26

More people should be like you and stay away from those places but at the same time it is none of my business if they do. It's a free country. my point is the lowest income families are the ones that use the companies you mentioned. Wealthy people don't.

You would like this Nachos, in the province of Quebec they are trying to keep there French heritage and do exactly as you say. When Walmart came in they fought it but lost. They did try to start a union though and when the employees didn't show up for work and protested out side the store, Walmart levelled the store. The whole new Walmart Levelled to the ground, and they left. So it can be done.

For the record, no not Christain, and no never worked in a soup kitchen. I am not a photo op kind of guy.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 7 years 24 weeks ago
#27

Kend, did you say, "The fact is the people who bitch the most about corporations are the ones that buy from them."? That is an EXTREMELY illogical statement. The fact is EVERYONE buys from corporations. That's the whole problem, lack of choice. That's what makes us ALL prisoners of poverty. Southwest Florida aside, "organic" food has become a prohibitively expensive luxury only bourgie wine and cheese liberals can afford.

Of course, "the people who bitch the most about corporations are the ones that buy from them" they are those who can't afford otherwise. That's like saying, "those who complain about concentration camps the most are the inmates".

Gator Girl 7 years 24 weeks ago
#28

I am no longer surprised by anything that this body of law (?) does or says. If there is money involved you can bet they will always side with the money people. Several - most outstandingly Scalia - should recuse themselves from EVER voting on ANY decision after public statements they have made. Blind justice? I don't think so. This is the most partisian court ever and it only shows the decline that our country is in and makes firm that we no longer have a democracy at all. We live in a Corporatist country and we, the people, matter not at all.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 24 weeks ago
#29
Quote MMmmNACHOS:Here in S.W. Florida, MARKSULYS, I have noticed an increase in local Farmers Markets that offer a large selection of locally grown organic fruits, veggies, eggs, dairy, and herbs. Educated/Conscience consumers are the reason.

Interesting observation my friend. Here in the Bay Area we have many small, local Ethnic stores run by Mexicans, Arabs, and Chinese merchants. They only purchase locally grown produce, dairy and meats. The effect is you get fresher, organic goods and much cheaper prices than any major chains. The only down side is the appearance of the produce. It looks more like it was grown in your yard than by a big chain store. It also decays faster than chain store produce due to the lack of preservatives. But since they are local stores you can get a nice walk, save money and eat healthy all at the same time. Help support your local merchants!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 24 weeks ago
#30
Quote Kend:I here all this crap about not enough food in the world yet we are spending a fortune on turning that food into fuel. Does that only see stupid to me.

Kend, your spelling is really improving. Now if you could just do a little more proof reading. For instance you 'hear', not 'here'. Of course you can 'hear' something over 'here'. That last sentence would have made so much more sense if you just added a 'm' to 'see'.

Yet I digress. Actually, my friend, I couldn't agree more. Trying to turn food into fuel is a ridiculous idea. However, trying to turn non edible biomass into fuel is a brilliant idea. Food, yard, and forest decaying scraps for instance; but most of all, hemp biomass. Now that's a great idea:

http://thehempsolution.blogspot.com/

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 24 weeks ago
#31
Quote MMmmNACHOS:When I grow/pick my own organic vine ripe tomatoes I have to eat them, prepair, or can them within 3 days other wise they go bad. Most commercial tomatoes (hot house) have been off the vine for over a week before they make it to the grocery store for sale...Their colour is bright, skin unblemmished...but they have no flavour...These are not tomatoes! What are they???Genetically Engineered.

You are right my friend. There is something unnatural and strange about commercially available produce. I don't know about Genetic Engineering per se; however, I do know that they add all types of chemical preservatives to the fruit and chemical fertilizers and pesticides to the growing plants. The chain stores in addition add a coat of 'fruit' wax to the fruit skin with artificial color and shine in order to maintain its bright skin with a fresh unblemished look. As a result of all these chemical processes you loose taste but gain shelf life and a pretty appearance. Whether or not Genetic Engineering is used on any given produce is unknown (Thanks to our nine friends behind the bench); however, given the perfect symmetry and shape of chain store produce, I wouldn't doubt for a minute that some Genetic Engineering is going on. The imperfect, irregular shape of produce in local markets and in your own home garden should tell you that perfectly identical symmetry in nature rarely happens. The full impact of all this chemical treatment on the health of human beings is still being determined. Welcome to the lab from inside the cage of the Guinea pig.

Ironically, it is you and I who pay for all this chemical/artificial treatment when we buy from these big chain grocery outlets. This is why it is so much better to take the time to patronize the small local grocery stores and farmer markets. Yes, the food is cheaper, and yes, it doesn't last as long. It is usually priced to move fast. After two or three days sitting on the shelf the price goes way down. It has to be moved in the next 36 hours or tossed. That is why when you buy overripe produce for a super discounted price at a local market you better plan on eating it immediately or canning it. Be sure to determine that it isn't beyond overripe as well.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 24 weeks ago
#32
Quote jazzyjoy:Wonder what the Tea Party christians think. Isn't this taking god out of the creaator roll and selling it to monsanto?

Don't you mean "Wonder IF the Tea Party Christians think?" The obvious answer to that inquiry would be that it depends upon the size of Monsanto's campaign contribution to the Tea Party base. These people don't even have a clue as to what their own faith Christianity is about. Whatever God's role in their daily life is will have to be spoon fed to them by their Evangelical Masters. They don't enjoy the freedom or cognitive ability to think for themselves on such matters.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 24 weeks ago
#33

Sadly, this all is starting to look like the plot of the movie, "Idiocracy." According to the plot in this movie set in 2505, 500 years in the future, a dangerous trend began to emerge in our present day where only stupid people were having children. Smart people would abstain from having children. As a result over a couple of centuries the world became overpopulated with stupid people. The Corporation Gatorade (Brawndo-"the thirst mutilator") became the dominant economic entity in the world. As a result all the crops were watered with Gatorade and would not grow. No one in the world was smart enough to figure out the problem and famine threatened the lives of everyone. Great movie! Very funny and very eye opening.

If you never saw the movie you might want to check out this web sight before you do:

http://www.11points.com/Movies/11_Hidden_Secrets_in_Idiocracy

It will surely help all appreciate the nuances and creative detail put into an otherwise purely satirical farce. Highly recommended!

(Demise at the hand of an idiotic SC-R-OTU-(S)-M -or- SCOTUS and SCROTUM interchangeable.)

whateverittakes 7 years 24 weeks ago
#34

Do you know what Monsanto is doing? Do you know that at least 220,000 peasants have committed suicide in India because of the deceptive business practices foisted on them by huge multinational corporations like Monsanto? Do you know that in all probability Monsanto's patents are phony, that they are based on the idea of equivalence -- and if the seeds Monsanto claims are special are, in fact, "substantially equivalent" as Monsanto also argues, then Monsanto has no right to register any patents and they are simply stealing from people like Mr. Bowman. Their goal is to get his land. Do you know that the gene technology that Monsanto claims to possess doesn't exist, that what they are doing/concocting behind closed doors is not only secretive, it's deceitful and probably very dangerous. It was shown fifteen years ago by knowledgeable bioengineers in Scotland that meddling in the gene structures of seeds is a very "iffy" operation and what you get is going to be considerably other than what you are aiming for. In sum, this is a dangerous company. We need to contact our representatives and request that Congress launch an investigation and stop Monsanto's flagrant abuse of farmers and of us, as human beings who must eat. At the same time, it becomes absolutely imperative to insist upon food labels that tell us what we're buying (and what we're eating). Monsanto is crooked enough to understand very well that by the time the effects of its operations are seen in human beings, the links to them and to food will probably be hard to prove.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 7 years 23 weeks ago
#35

Mark Saulys -- love that last line

"those who complain about concentration camps the most are the inmates".

Much better than what I say to myself when I hear RWNJ talking about freedom -- which is I don't want any gubmint telling me how many slaves I can own.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 23 weeks ago
#36

whateverittakes ~ Good reasoning my friend. I agree with everything you said. As to the questions, no, most of them I was not aware of. However, I still managed to reach the same bottom line you have with what I do know. Monsanto must go!

However, I do fully stand by my comment in #10. Overpopulation is the cause of many problems. The earth has a way of fixing such problems. Monsanto is just the beginning. Unless we as a people start managing our reproduction we will have far greater problems then Monsanto to worry about in the future. At least Monsanto is a problem we can all do something about.

Howard Laverne Stewart's picture
Howard Laverne ... 7 years 23 weeks ago
#37

Should'nt the grain elevator be liable? There are anti monopoly laws arent there? Isnt that the whole idea, to sow seeds for a cash crop. If farmers quit buying monsanto products it would shake them up. Total control over something as vital as food is very scary. These Judges are not looking

at the whole picture. Competiton in free markets are what wall street is always screaming about. Hopefully the changing and more informed demographics will vote wiser people into goverment. The internet helped with the Arab spring. The Roman Empire was brought down by this type of tyranny. Mainstream media is not reporting this, and a lot of other stories that are serving their corporate paymasters. I can't see any good for the world if this continues.

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