Will there be an end to the perpetual war?

Yesterday, President Obama spoke to a crowd at the National Defense University, and laid out his vision for the future of counter-terrorism. In his speech, the President addressed the controversial use of drones, the on-going fight to close Gitmo, and the need to repeal the Authorization for the Use of Military Force. President Obama invoked the words of James Madison, saying, “No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual war.”

While at times he appeared to justify the on-going use of drone strikes, the overall tone of the speech indicated the President's desire to put an end to perpetual war. He said, “Our systematic effort to dismantle terrorist organizations must continue. But this war, like all wars, must end.” And, he called on Congress to stop blocking efforts to close the torture facility at Guantanamo Bay – a prison he said “should have never been opened” in the first place.

The speech drew criticism from both the Left and the Right. Medea Benjamin, co-founder of the anti-war group, Code Pink, interrupted the President during his remarks, criticizing his failure to close Gitmo, and the civilian drone-strike casualties. Republican Senator Saxby Chambliss said the President Obama's remarks “will be viewed by terrorists as a victory.” It will difficult, if not impossible, for our President to please both sides, and he will likely be met with resistance in his efforts to conclude this decade-long disaster.

Most of that resistance will come from those on the Right, who refuse to acknowledge the damage that these policies have done to our nation, and the world. Those of us on the Left should continue to call for an end to the drone program, for the restoration of our right to privacy, and more. In the meantime, however, we must stand with President Obama as he attempts to close Gitmo, works to reduce executive power, and tries to restore the image of our nation throughout the world.

If we don't fight for these changes now, they may never happen. Our President cannot do this alone.


Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 3 weeks ago

Oh come on now! "Our President cannot do this alone."? All he does is say a few things he thinks we want to hear but he has no intention of really going to bat for the people who elected him. Like that very smooth way he handled that very brave heckling by Medea Benjamin...very smooth indeed...I almost had pleasant thoughts about Obama at that moment until I caught myself being suckered in by his smooth demeanor and yet more sucker words that he really didn't mean. Contrast the looks on his face while MB was ranting...and then contrast that with the words that came later...total BS!

Let's not let up on the pressure on Obama and our politicians by trying to "support" their lies. The only reason why Obama sounds like he is even remotely "trying" to change things is because of the obviously contradictory positions he has supported...and is getting a lot of flack over it.

Torture/death camps in Gitmo and elsewhere. Death Drones killing Americans not to mention the hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children in the Middle East. Continued prosecution of whistleblowers which is just such a stark contrast to his lies of an open government. His continued protection of his war criminal predecessors. Continued fleecing of American jobs by the wealthy elites whose teats Obama is clinging to and expects to continue doing so until after he goes through those golden turnstiles of corporate quid pro quo racketeering.

So don't "support" him...keep "hounding" him...hound him and all of his criminal ruling elite straight to hell if necessary. If you "support" him...you have psychologically given in to them..which is just the way they play the game...they have you just where they want you....and they will continue to ratchet up their oppression...because you have let your guard down...again.

Way to go..Medea Benjamin! You keep the pressure on! And thank you for that!

Passion8 11 years 3 weeks ago

Could not agree more! This president has continually betrayed his words with his actions. how can one possibly believe that this president's hands are tied when it comes to committing war crimes such as force feeding prisoners and droning funerals, but not the least bit tied by the tenets of due process, free press, free speech, right to a fair and speedy trial, freedom from cruel and unusual treatment.. Obama has a silver tongue that is deeply forked.

stonesphear's picture
stonesphear 11 years 3 weeks ago

A Fascist would argue that if Civil Society expends treasure to build a viable military in order to support , protect, and expand a Civil Society it is more efficient to put that power to task and engage it in the enterprise of obtaining resource through conquest for the sake of further expansion of the culture in question. Basically building Empire.

The pacifist argues that as surely as Empire expands through military conquest beyond it's capacity to maintain that Empire, Foreign resistance builds to the point that the "Empire" eventually fails with catastrophic consequence.

Abbot and Costello; How can " Who" be on first if " First" is up to bat and "Who" is on second ?

Tim Sherlock's picture
Tim Sherlock 11 years 3 weeks ago

I was talking with my brother the other day about Bill Maher when I said I agree with Bill on almost evereything he says, but at times I just don't see eye to eye with him. On these occasions I am usually if not always to the left of his view. My brother countered with, "people never agree with anyone comepletely." My reply was that there are some who I seem to agree with everytime I've heard them speak on an issue: Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and Thom Hartmann for three. He said back, "yeah, I guess you're right." Your broad understanding and deep insight always amazes me. I've learned so much from you, and I really want to thank you for helping me gain better insights and an even more caring attitude.

Thanks, Thom

Tim Sherlock

John Day, Oregon

historywriter's picture
historywriter 11 years 3 weeks ago

I have not been very impressed with Obama for a long while, but I think this time he may mean it, if he's looking toward his legacy. Why would he want to go down in the books as perpetuating and even worsening some of the worst of W;s failures? Maybe he also sees the futility of these endless wars, and not just the futility but the way the wars and the so-called war on terrorism has done nothing but worsen matters, perhaps he's stung, finally, by the criticism from his supporters the beginning of his failure to carry out his promises. There was an air of apology and backing down.

But let's not drop it! Let's do, hound him hound him hound him. Email him every day. Sign all the petitions, then email him again. Also, your elected representatives.

Don't give up. Never give up. Keep working at it.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 3 weeks ago

Fantastic to see Thom had on Medea Benjamin on today's show. I missed everything but the last few moments..so I'll have to check it out on a later show on on the internet. About the only thing I heard was way too much of the right winger man...who just couldn't stop yacking away with his idiocy.

ptg0's picture
ptg0 11 years 3 weeks ago

This guy has a tendency to say whatever he thinks the crowd wants to hear

Look forward, not backward.

That statement let a president and an entire cabinet of felons go free.

Kend's picture
Kend 11 years 3 weeks ago

I will say it one more time. What has Obama done to make America a better place to live. Oh ya nothing. What is it that makes people like him I don't get it. Still one in five Americans are out of work After four years nothing has changed. He sent 30,000 more troops to the war. Since he has been President he increased your debt by six trillion dollars. He has decreased green house gases by oh about zero. What has he done? Please don't say health care. Nothing has improved with health care yet. Anything else?

Liz Walker's picture
Liz Walker 11 years 3 weeks ago

Dear Thom. I've enjoyed your radio shows for a number of years, and also your email newsletters. I don't always agree with your views but I always respect your thinking.

I feel so angry right now about the way some "progressives" are responding to our President's speech yesterday at the National Defense University [whatever that is!].

I want to thank you for your more adult and reasoned and measured response. No president can make these changes alone. This should be obvious to all those who have been watching and listening to the crazy rightwing nonsense all these years now. Every elected official, from County Supervisor to President of the United States, must feel her/himself to have the citizenry on his side in order to get things done. This is why the ridiculous republicons work so hard and spend so many millions to pollute our airwaves and claim our minds.

Thom. You are a bit younger than I and you tend to be a much more positive thinker than I. But I suspect that you, too, get pretty much fed up with the fatuous self-righteousness of many "progressives-who-don't-wish-to-be-called-Liberals-because-they're-not!" Even some who otherwise appear to have some handle on history have disappointed me plenty. I've written an angry note just today to one who runs a "progressive" magazine which I have previously supported but from which I now withdraw my subscription.

Barack Obama is the best thing that could have happened to this country. He came in with all our "Liberal" hopes and dreams. The fact that we all, he and us together, ran right into the wall of status quo is not surprising, and is not his invention. I suspect, as I did in 2007, that Mr. Obama is politically and personally something of a moderate in his worldview. So I never expected miracles beyond the miracle of his election. Yet, he has rewarded my political passions a hundredfold with his Supreme Court appointments, his thoughtful unraveling of Iraq and Afghanistan commitments, his incredibly sensitive and effective support and encouragement to our poor and elderly and women and children and grief-stricken parents and families. I am so proud of him and his beautiful family and so grateful that he came along at the height of our American nightmare and lifted us out and away - however gradually - back to a political reality we can understand if we try.

It seems to me that Barack Obama is the adult among us, just when we need him. This is why I am angered, yes, by those Repubicans, such as Mr. McCain, who nitpick and badmouth and slander at every turn whether from bruised ego or outright racialism. But, more, much more deeply, I am smolderingly angry with those who call themselves Democrats or Liberals or Progressives who cannot seem to see past the most recent press "scandal" to pile on -- right along with the rightwing crazies and cynics and self-aggrandizers.

No human is perfect. No country can be perfect. No president can be perfect. But let us all make the effort to grow up and stand up now for a man who is better than I think we presently deserve.

Thanks for listening, Thom.

soccernona's picture
soccernona 11 years 3 weeks ago

I am personally tired of "inspirational" speeches. I'll believe it when I see it. I voted for the President and still support him, but am also very disappointed in many of the decisions he has made. I want more leadership, and want to see him steadfastly sticking to progressive agendas with less posturing to Republican demands. I hope that he will not disappoint me further. It's getting increasingly more diffiult to explain him to Conservative friends.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 11 years 3 weeks ago
Quote Palindromedary:Oh come on now! "Our President cannot do this alone."? All he does is say a few things he thinks we want to hear but he has no intention of really going to bat for the people who elected him.

Good point my friend. I too am a bit disheveled at this brief interlude of sanity. However, from habit--or conditioning--I seem to sense the setup for another false flag that would make all The President's recent words instantly meaningless. I hope I am wrong and this is a real turning point for our nation. God knows we deserve it and any genuine Constitutional Scholar/Statesman would time his restoration of the Constitution at about this time in his tenure. However, I have been too profoundly disappointed in the past to let my sheer optimism dictate my believes. I want to see action to back up these words. Deliberate and consistent action. Anything less is a charade. Any false flag event is a conspiracy.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 11 years 3 weeks ago

Palindromedary ~ (from yesterday) Yeah, that website is full of priceless tidbits:


Between Mark Tracy and leighmf I feel I got an epiphanical education in one day. JFK/Nixon/Watergate and all the connections and facts that blend together and explain everything we know will take a while to sink in. Today at lunch I found myself at a Panda Express with a Mountain Dew in my hand. My wife couldn't finish her Pepsi and offered it to me. I looked down at it with a sickening feeling. I doubt I will ever drink Pepsi again.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 3 weeks ago

DAnneMarc: Yes, I suspect you are right about the next false flag...what will it be...I wonder? It would behoove people to stay away from anyplace that is crowded...don't fly...don't take trains...stay out of tall buildings...crowded airports...sports or entertainment events. And if you want to "just go shopping" make sure you go to little places...not big malls. Yes, I suspect that when the manipulators can no longer control people's attitudes they'll resort to yet another scare tactic..another false flag..yet another Pearl Harbor or 911. That will bring them right into line again. It worked so well before! The people will never question authority and the authorities can get away with anything.

What news will we wake up to tomorrow...or the next day...or the next? How about: all the major banks have lost all their savings and checking accounts completely drained by international hackers...even though, in reality, that was just the cover for insider banksters doing the dirty deeds themselves and blaming it on the false flag patsies. When no one can get any money...then what will they do? Lash out against some innocent victims who just happen to be of the same ethnic origins that the criminals, who really absconded with the money, have blamed for the massive bank heists? FDIC could never cover such a loss.

Or, maybe something else on the order of more multiple hijackings and crashes into yet more tall buildings.

Or how about massive mailings of anthrax to thousands, or hundreds of thousands of Americans...right to their homes? All these things would be absolutely horrible but I don't doubt that the ruthless ruling elite would do such things...because they have done them before...911 and the anthrax mailings afterwards comes to mind. The assassinations of JFK, RFK, MLK and others come to mind.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 3 weeks ago

Oh, that Parastoo, such a joker, eh? ;-}

Quote Parastoo (hacker..or hacker group):




Quote Parastoo (hacker..or hacker group):


Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 3 weeks ago

I know! Something really scarey...a "terrorist" nuke goes off somewhere...that will scare the people so badly that they will all start waving their little flags again and totally forget about being totally screwed by our own ruling elite. Maybe that will be the excuse to invade Iran or Venezuela. Man, I sure hope they don't bomb us here in Podunk, Iowa!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 11 years 3 weeks ago

Palindromedary ~ A nuclear false flag is a very scary thought, indeed. However, this group of thugs is definitely headed that way if not checked. They always seem to do the exact opposite of what I want them to do too. Man, I sure hope they don't bomb us here in Crawford, Texas!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 11 years 3 weeks ago
Quote soccernona:I want more leadership, and want to see him steadfastly sticking to progressive agendas with less posturing to Republican demands. I hope that he will not disappoint me further. It's getting increasingly more diffiult to explain him to Conservative friends.

soccernona ~ I quite concur. However, my hat is off to you. I find it impossible to explain anything to "Conservative 'friends.'" How do you talk to people who's mind is already made up for them? I'd rather talk to a wall. At least the wall listens.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 11 years 3 weeks ago
Quote Kend:I will say it one more time. What has Obama done to make America a better place to live. Oh ya nothing. What is it that makes people like him I don't get it.

Kend ~ Well Kend, the answer is quite simple--Obama isn't Bush. Let's face it Obama is everything Bush isn't. He's not only a good student but a good teacher, he's literate, he comes from a poor family, he's a good public speaker, he can speak without a script, and most of all he's black. That's right, black. President Bush was such a bad leader--without a doubt the worst President by far in the short history of this country--that he made the election of a black man possible. Voters desperately wanted the most 100% opposite to the previous Administration they could find and Barack Obama fit the description perfectly. That's probably the greatest accomplishment of the Bush Administration--the greatest all time achievement for Civil Rights. President Bush with his preposterously incompetent Presidency paved the way for the greatest moment of Affirmative Action in American history.

In short, my friend, that is why people like President Obama--because he isn't President Bush! As long as he stays that way, he will be loved--no matter what he screws up!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 11 years 3 weeks ago
From a post 'heckling' interview with Medea Benjamin by Juan Gonzalez and Amy Goodman


Quote The Democracy Now website:JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Medea, having watched interruptions of presidents over many decades, I was struck by the fact that you got to interrupt him three different times in that speech. I’m wondering, do you get a sense—did you get a sense they were going—usually, after the first or maybe the second time, the Secret Service would move in to drag people away. But did you get a sense that maybe, to some degree, his people didn’t mind the interruptions, to the degree that he was then able to show that he is confronting opposition on the left to his policies?

MEDEA BENJAMIN: No, not at all. That’s not the way it went down, Juan. What you didn’t see is what was happening behind the scenes, of the Secret Service, the FBI, the people from the base coming over and saying, "You must come with us immediately, or you’ll be under arrest," and trying to grab me. And I was saying, "Don’t touch me. I’ll scream. You don’t want to make a scene in front of the president. You will regret this if you do it." And they were really confused about what to do.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: So, no order came down immediately to remove you then from the—after the first interruption?

MEDEA BENJAMIN: They all came down immediately, and they didn’t know what to do, so they sat down next to me. They sat down behind me. They got up again. They told me I must leave. I said, "No, I’m not leaving." This was all going on in between those three interruptions.

Concerning the issue of the use of Drones:

Quote The Democracy Now website:AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask your assessment of what President Obama said around the issue of drones. Medea, you have written a book about drone warfare. And do you feel he has laid out a different course for drone attacks?

MEDEA BENJAMIN: No, I don’t think so. In fact, I was very disappointed. He said that his policy is to capture, not kill. That’s just not true. I know personally of many incidents where it would have been very easy to capture people, like the 16-year-old Tariq Aziz in Pakistan, who was in Islamabad at a well-known hotel, but instead was killed by a drone strike two days later. Or we have the cases in Yemen, where the activist speaking before Congress said that in his village it would have been very simple to capture the person they were after, but instead they sent in a drone.

I don’t think he laid out major changes. The drone strikes are lessening in Pakistan. We don’t really know yet what’s happening in Yemen. But there are drone bases being built up all over the world, including in places like Saudi Arabia, that are making us less safe here at home. So, I think the president is really justifying the use of drones, which will continue to happen under his administration and be passed on to the next.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 11 years 3 weeks ago
The Real Obama Administration/Pentagon Military Agenda as revealed Thursday May 16,2013 in the Senate Armed Forces Committee hearing:

Quote The Democracy Now Website:SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: OK. Do you agree with me that when it comes to international terrorism, we’re talking about a worldwide struggle?

MICHAEL SHEEHAN: Absolutely, sir. [inaudible]

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Would you agree with me the battlefield is wherever the enemy chooses to make it?

MICHAEL SHEEHAN: Yes, sir, from Boston to the FATA.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I couldn’t agree with you more. We’re in a—do you agree with that, General?

BRIG. GEN. RICHARD GROSS: Yes, sir. I agree that the enemy decides where the battlefield is.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: And it could be anyplace on the planet, and we have to be aware and able to act. And do you have the ability to act, and are you aware of the threats?

MICHAEL SHEEHAN: Yes, sir. We do have the ability to react, and we are tracking threats globally.

Senator Angus King responds:

Quote The Democracy Now website:SEN. ANGUS KING: Gentlemen, I’ve only been here five months, but this is the most astounding and most astoundingly disturbing hearing that I’ve been to since I’ve been here. You guys have essentially rewritten the Constitution here today. The Constitution, Article I, Section 8, Clause 11, clearly says that the Congress has the power to declare war. This—this authorization, the AUMF, is very limited. And you keep using the term "associated forces." You use it 13 times in your statement. That is not in the AUMF. And you said at one point, "It suits us very well." I assume it does suit you very well, because you’re reading it to cover everything and anything. And then you said, at another point, "So, even if the AUMF doesn’t apply, the general law of war applies, and we can take these actions." So, my question is: How do you possibly square this with the requirement of the Constitution that the Congress has the power to declare war?

This is one of the most fundamental divisions in our constitutional scheme, that the Congress has the power to declare war; the president is the commander-in-chief and prosecutes the war. But you’re reading this AUMF in such a way as to apply clearly outside of what it says. Senator McCain was absolutely right: It refers to the people who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks on September 11. That’s a date. That’s a date. It doesn’t go into the future. And then it says, "or harbored such organizations"—past tense—"or persons in order to prevent any future acts by such nations, organizations or persons." It established a date.

Pentagon spokesman Michael Sheehan and Senator King then have this exchange:

Quote The Democracy Now website:MICHAEL SHEEHAN: Senator, let me take the first response. I’m not a constitutional lawyer or a lawyer of any kind. But let me talk to you a little—take a brief statement about al-Qaeda and the organization that attacked us on September 11, 2001. In the two years prior to that, Senator King, that organization attacked us in East Africa and killed 17 Americans in our embassy in Nairobi, with loosely affiliated groups of people in East Africa. A year prior to 9/11, that same organization, with its affiliates in Yemen, almost sunk a U.S. ship, the U.S.S. Cole, a billion-dollar warship, killed 17 sailors in the port of Aden. The organization that attacked us on 9/11 already had its tentacles in—around the world with associated groups. That was the nature of the organization then; it is the nature of the organization now. In order to attack that organization, we have to attack it with those affiliates that are its operational arm that have previously attacked and killed Americans, and at high-level interests, and continue to try to do that.

SEN. ANGUS KING: That’s fine, but that’s not what the AUMF says. You can—you can—what I’m saying is, we may need new authority, but don’t—if you expand this to the extent that you have, it’s meaningless, and the limitation in the war power is meaningless. I’m not disagreeing that we need to attack terrorism wherever it comes from and whoever is doing it. But what I’m saying is, let’s do it in a constitutional way, not by putting a gloss on a document that clearly won’t support it. It just—it just doesn’t—it just doesn’t work. I’m just reading the words. It’s all focused on September 11 and who was involved, and you guys have invented this term "associated forces" that’s nowhere in this document. As I mentioned, in your written statement, you use that—that’s the key term. You use it 13 times. It’s the justification for everything. And it renders the war powers of the Congress null and void. I don’t understand. I mean, I do understand you’re saying we don’t need any change, because the way you read it, you can—you could do anything. But why not say—come back to us and say, "Yes, you’re correct that this is an overbroad reading that renders the war powers of the Congress a nullity; therefore, we need new authorization to respond to the new situation"? I don’t understand why—I mean, I do understand it, because the way you read it, there’s no limit. But that’s not what the Constitution contemplates.

AMY GOODMAN: Independent Senator Angus King of Maine, speaking Thursday at a Senate hearing on the president’s war powers under the Authorization for Use of Military Force.

Palindromedary ~ Unless I'm mistaken you might be right that this Presidential speech is nothing more than blowing smoke up our collective A**'s!


[emphasis added]

RabiaJ's picture
RabiaJ 11 years 3 weeks ago

I agree with President Obama in his general intent to end perpetual war, and in his talking points towards that end. And I do agree with you, Thom, on the President needing our backing in his efforts to accomplish these goals.

One point I heard on a news opinion segment is that the President tended to point out the concepts of change towards ending perpetual war without pinpointing action items towards that end. This is an apparent trait I seem to notice in many of his prospects for change. In order to participate in the implementation of his concepts, those in his administration, his support in Congress, and members of organized popular support need to know the specific steps indicated in his vision.

I see this as one reason the President's policies and programs sometimes waver in being initiated, giving GOP opposition a ready 'in' to oppose and obstruct their implementation. From my perspective what the President proposes needs to be more specific in detailed follow through and application to better ensure a smoother path towards being realized.

bendigger0 11 years 3 weeks ago

Let's just blame Republicans... it's certainly not OUR fault!

ken ware's picture
ken ware 11 years 3 weeks ago

D.A.M. & Palin - You two should start your own newspaper. As all good reporters will tell you only bad news sells and history has shown that a paper that states the positive aspects of life, soon goes out of business. You two take up the majority of the comments on this blog of Louise Hartmann's and you seldom state anything that would remotely be considered a positive note on any subject, you just continue to pat each other on the back for commenting on how bad things are here! As I have seen in your past ranting’s, it is always easier for the two of you to tear down everything in our country and never a positive comment. I guess you two would have to think up an original thought versus just ranting on about something someone has said. I could make a list of what is wrong with this country because that is all people on this blog of L.H.'s care to comment on! I have never heard nor should I say read so much bull shit in my life from two obviously self-righteous people in one place. And, please do not put my comments in those stupid balloons you two love to use, as if you had the authority to criticize everything anyone says that is different from your narrow point of view! I generally stay away from this site because I have found it difficult to control my comments regarding my desire to hunt you down and skin you from a high pole, and that would be too good for either of you. And, as I have seen in the past you two are the most paranoid individuals with no real guts I have ever encountered! You love to get off criticizing everything you run across, yet are too cowardly to make a real stand when you are confronted. Go ahead and make my day and start a verbal exchange with no real substance, which is all you are good for. Thom and Louise make a living out of baiting people; you two do it for self- recognition and in your minds for your own self-anointed importance. You two live in a world where every entity is planning a conspiracy to do you in, and every statement a politician or civil servant makes is only so they can launch a new conspiracy against people like yourself. You’re sick and are in need of therapy. Those conservatives DAM rants about that do not listen to him and he would just as soon talk to a wall, start talking to the walls, because your monologue you paste on this site is boring and fraught with delusions of conspiracies going on all around you. Do you actually believe your comments are so important that people should stand up and acknowledge your rants, as if they hold some kind of importance? All you do is cry about how terrible our politicians are and how screwed we all are as Americans. Take your blinders off and actually take a look around you and see how great this Country actually is. Oh, but then you would have nothing to say, with the exceptions of when you agree with that poor soul Palindromedary, who also thinks Armageddon is about to take place and all the government does is sit around and plan conspiracies against the American people and everyone else on the globe! Can you two spell the word, PARANOIA? Like I said, if you two (DAM & Palin) could not complain, you would have nothing to say about America. And that poor idiot Kend from that frozen lake north of us, can only spew out what he perceives is wrong with America, but he sure enjoys going to Az. for some good weather. He probably sits in his car or airline seat thinking of how terrible American's are as he plans his vacation in OUR country.

Do not bother to comment back, because I rarely, if ever, read what you two losers have to say once I sign off L. Hartmann's blog. Like I have stated in the past, I would love to meet up with you DAM for a one on one discussion, but I guess that would take some guts to man up to your comments you make on this blog. Isn't the internet a wonderful place to hide while ranting on about how bad our Great Country is! And yet I have never heard you two idiots make any positive suggestions on how to fix the things you rant on about that are so terrible & corrupt. Like I said earlier, it is easy to sit back and type out your thoughts of how bad things are. And it actually takes some guts and brains to comment on how good things are here, even if you have to live in Oakland or outside of Seattle.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 3 weeks ago

DAnneMarc: Oh, you mean just 7 miles (as the crow flies) NW of Crawford? Oh, yes, I can also see the helo pad and helo hanger along with the swimming pool and guest houses..no doubt housing security. But then I guess the house in Dallas is closer to more amenities.

31deg 34' 56.99" N 97deg 32' 36.97"W
Nice house you got there Mr. B..nice pond too.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 3 weeks ago

Ken, you old rascal...just wanted to say thank you for reading our messages..you must be reading them else how do you know what to gripe about. And you sure wouldn't be having any fun unless you were griping about us and sounding tough. I suppose that it is a real psychological thrill for you. I'm glad you're having fun...I sure am. Hey, man, the next time you are visiting Podunk, Alaska...just look me up and say hi. I have a couple of Polar Bear cousins who would just love to shake your hand.

Quote ken:
I have found it difficult to control my comments regarding my desire to hunt you down and skin you from a high pole, and that would be too good for either of you.

That's the spirit! Man, you are one tough guy! I'm almost shaking in my moccasins. ;-} Just another good reason to try to keep one's identity on the internet as hidden as possible (like not using one's real name, etc.)...there are so many weirdos out their with guns and with attitude problems (those are the ones with real mental problems)...you never know when those sickos are going to come gunning for you (or "hunt you down and skin you from a high pole").

dstack's picture
dstack 11 years 3 weeks ago

I was so excited to hear a caller on Thom's radio show bring up CREDO Mobile. I'm hoping Thom reads this because I posted about this in a blog a while back. I want Thom to know CREDO Mobile is not for land lines. And considering he's been ranting against Apple, I highly recommend he gets a Driod from CREDO.

Here's my blog post about CREDO from last September... http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2012/09/credo-mobile-customer-3-yrs-i-recommend-it

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 3 weeks ago

DAnneMarc: Wow, thanks for those links..I watched them...very scary.

Ken: Sorry, Ken, but I gotta say these Gestapo pigs (the people testifying before the Armed Serviced Committee and some right wing congressmen at the link sites DAnneMarc gave us) are far more scarier than you are.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 11 years 3 weeks ago
A pretty blue balloon for Ken Ware.

Quote Ken Ware:As I have seen in your past ranting’s, it is always easier for the two of you to tear down everything in our country and never a positive comment.

Gee Ken, what a beautiful new airplane you have. Two wings and everything! It brightens up the whole blog! Doesn't the USA have the cutest airplanes in the whole world?

Quote Ken Ware:Do you actually believe your comments are so important that people should stand up and acknowledge your rants, as if they hold some kind of importance?

No, but, apparently you do! Isn't that why you like to bask in our glow?

Quote Ken Ware:I have never heard nor should I say read so much bull shit in my life from two obviously self-righteous people in one place.

So what you're saying is that you don't proof read yourself. Ha! I knew it!

Quote Ken Ware:And, please do not put my comments in those stupid balloons you two love to use, as if you had the authority to criticize everything anyone says that is different from your narrow point of view!

Umm! Whoops! Sorry! I didn't read that one!

Quote Ken Ware:Go ahead and make my day and start a verbal exchange with no real substance, which is all you are good for.

Ken Ware ~ It is so nice to see you back. Actually, there is one question I've been dying to ask. Why all the airplanes? They're very pretty, and a feat of technology, but I seem to think they might have greater meaning to you. I am curious. If you don't mind, I'd like to know if you used to be a pilot? Or perhaps an airplane mechanic. If you worked on airplanes down there on that little island facility you might have known someone in my family. We could be closer than you think.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 3 weeks ago

DAnneMarc: Yes, I know what you mean...I have often wondered why Ken seems to get so upset with us. There is actually a lot that we all agree on...except for a few certain topics. I know he got really upset once when I mentioned that the Pentagon was using sock puppets, and special software for creating various fake identities, in order to network various blog sites to direct and influence what people talked about and believed. They are using military and vets to do this....if certain things are mentioned (say 911) then the sock puppets go to work and try to deflect those ideas by various means. The general idea is for the sock puppet to create an overall pro-government..pro-military consensus. They might even tend to sound like they are in agreement with most of the topics...even ranting on Obama. As long as the certain topics don't get a positive spin...they have done their job.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 11 years 3 weeks ago
Quote Palindromedary:DAnneMarc: Wow, thanks for those links..I watched them...very scary.

Ken: Sorry, Ken, but I gotta say these Gestapo pigs (the people testifying before the Armed Serviced Committee and some right wing congressmen at the link sites DAnneMarc gave us) are far more scarier than you are.

Palindromedary ~ You're very welcome!

Actually, to be honest, I don't understand what Ken gets upset about half the time. Sometimes I think he's just an angry man who doesn't know any other way to behave. A one trick pony who will always find a means to that end. Most of my disturbing posts were quotes from transcripts of interviews ranging from that brave and heroic lady that had the courage to interrupt the President of the United States giving a speech and stand up to every high level security personnel in the Government--who is the subject of this blog's topic--to transcripts of Senators, Generals, and Pentagon Spokesmen at Senate hearings discussing our National Military Policy. Nothing trivial, hearsay, or speculative; and, certainly not my own words. Official transcripts of official policy makers aren't trivial. In this case, scary yes, trivial, no!

Personally, I think Ken is just nervous because he is about to become a Grandpa, and naturally wants to believe his grandson is coming into a positive world. I understand! I'd feel the same way if I were him. But remember, this blog discusses important topics facing the nation. We too want the best for his grandson and everyone else's grandson. We do not want them to inherit any serious problems because of our neglect. Right now the best way to ensure his grandson has the best future possible is to educate each other. A rant like his previous one that doesn't address one issue we spoke of but rather simply criticizes, insults, and threatens us does nothing to better the potential future of his grandson; in fact, it jeopardizes it. If he doesn't want to participate, and doesn't like what is being discussed, he would serve himself and everyone else best by staying away from this blog. Ignorance is bliss; and, that seems to be what he is looking for. I come here to learn and share the truth--whatever that may be. I deeply regret if that doesn't work out for our friend. Perhaps he should try the Sesame Street website blog. I'm sure Ken would really hit it off with The Cookie Monster.

Personally, if anyone doesn't think that the Pentagon trying to declare that they can circumnavigate the Constitution, Congress, and due process and use the military to murder anyone, anywhere for any reason without any accountability or any questions asked is a very major and serious problem, then they need to seek professional help immediately. They are suffering from advanced cognitive dissonance, are out of touch with reality, and are in denial; and, I don't mean a river in Egypt.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 11 years 3 weeks ago
Quote Palindromedary:The general idea is for the sock puppet to create an overall pro-government..pro-military consensus.

Ken Ware is a 'sock puppet.' Wow Palindromedary! You are right! That makes perfect sense--much more than Mr. Ware ever made. In fact, that explains everything he ever said.

In that case, I too was right. He would be right at home on Sesame Street.

I don't know if you noticed, but I have noticed that whenever Thom has a ridiculous topic--like immigration reform--almost immediately odd and new posters I've never seen before are immediately posted in support of Thom's strange position. It drives me nuts. I've suspected fraud from the word go. Have you noticed these strange new posts that pop in and then disappear forever? They don't even respond when you reply to them.

Yesterday I got into it with Kend. At one point he replied and actually agreed with himself. "I agree with Kend." Kend said. When I pressed him on it he said his wife wrote that post. Hmmmmm!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 11 years 3 weeks ago

Palindromedary ~ Have you ever heard about an Internet Troll?


Quote Wikipedia:In Internet slang, a troll (pron.: /ˈtrl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is someone who posts inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into anemotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[3] The noun troll may also refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted."

While the word troll and its associated verb trolling are associated with Internet discourse, media attention in recent years has made such labels subjective, with trolling describing intentionally provocative actions and harassmentoutside of an online context. For example, mass media has used troll to describe "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."[4][5]

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 11 years 3 weeks ago
Wikipedia defines sockpuppet, as opposed to sock puppet, as follows:

Quote Wikipedia:A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception. The term—a reference to the manipulation of a simple hand puppet made from a sock—originally referred to a false identity assumed by a member of an internet community who spoke to, or about, himself while pretending to be another person.[1] The term now includes other misleading uses of online identities, such as those created to praise, defend or support a third party or organization,[2] or to circumvent a suspension or ban from a website.

Wikipedia also goes on to mention government sockpuppetrey:

Quote Wikipedia:In 2011, a Californian company, Ntrepid, was awarded a $2.76 million contract under the auspices of US Central Command for "online persona management" operations[22] with the aim of creating "fake online personas to influence net conversations and spread US propaganda" in Arabic, Farsi, Urdu and Pashto.[22][23]

Interesting stuff, indeed! Perhaps a mutual cooperation may help to expose a list of such puppets on this blog to help save us the time and grief of responding to them? After all, we both have better things to do with our time than deal with this nonsense.


DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 11 years 3 weeks ago

Well, I'm not sure what is more disturbing: the idea that Ken Ware is merely a sockpuppet; or, the idea that some malevolent puppeteer has his scaly arm up Ken Ware's sock hole. Oh well, that is not the vision I want to go to bed with. Therefore, I will comply with Mr. Ware's greatest wish.

I thank God that this country and our Government that our founding fathers laid out for us was able to elect a representative such as Maine's Independent Senator Angus King. Thanks to them a sane voice of reason was present in an otherwise insane meeting concerning the future use of deadly force everywhere on our planet. If this was any other country in the world, with any other government in the world, the entire hearing may have been completely one sided and in secret. Thank God I live in America.

That being said, let us prepare to support Senator King and all of his supporters in fixing this problem before it gets nasty. As far as I am concerned, Independents are the only way to vote from now on. Good night all!

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 11 years 3 weeks ago

Sooooooo many issues; Healthcare, Education, Guns, Wall Street, Drones, Gitmo, Jobs, Wages, War Dept. Budget, IRS, Bengazi, GMO's (Monsantos, ConAg, DuPont and the likes), etc, etc.
...Sooooo Overwhelming...What can We the People do???

Overturn the Supreme Courts ruling that Corporations are people and money is their voice. Abolish Corporate Personhood, and take back control of a Government that was established By the people, For the People, and of the People...Not By the Corporations, For Corporations, By Corporations.

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 11 years 3 weeks ago

Add to that list of issue: Government Overeach, Green Energy Solution, War on Drugs, War on Terror, Military Industrial Complex, Homeland Security, Patriot Act, N.A.F.T.A. Two Party Ellection System, Voter Suppression, Immagration, Wellfare Reform...

Point is...Until We the People take action towards Abolishing Corporate Personhood and regain control in Washington, we will never resolve these matters, and "Our" country will become increasingly more and more facist...A philosophy and practice we once strongly opposed...Just ask all those who gave their lives during the Revolutionary War...Even as recent as WWII.

One way to change our way of thinking is through Comprehensive Studies in; American History, Civics, Humanities, World Social Studies, Critical Thinking, and classes on Non Violent Alternatives to Conflict Resolution; all these courses should be just as important in shaping and developing our future generations as Math and Science.

Intermittent Instigator's picture
Intermittent In... 11 years 3 weeks ago

Nice work, Medea Benjamin!!! (Keep it up.)

Nice work, President Obama!!! (Keep it up.)

Even a tiny step in the direction of sanity is a good thing.

Kend's picture
Kend 11 years 3 weeks ago

KenW I have never said America or Americans are terrible I love it down there I am just saying why are you ruining it with bad policy. Here we go again I come down there to get out of the cold and spend my hard earned dollars helping your economy and I get called a idiot. How can a nice guy like you be so mean. Lol

Kend's picture
Kend 11 years 3 weeks ago

Sad but true DAnneMarc

megalomaniac's picture
megalomaniac 11 years 3 weeks ago

Will there be an end to the perpetual war?


First to recognize a refreshing spirit that has the same intuitive progressive considerations I have, Liz Waker. Reading the analysis Liz made this day and reflecting much of what Liz wrote is how I feel. Expressing what we all know is true Obama cannot do it alone. Yet a Republican party is openly cruel to obsessed with introducing news that is modified by the idea of scandal loaded with breaking news on a conscious format intended with the leading rhetoric in hate in “scandal” is obstruction of government which is a direct political vector using the shield of the first amendment that cries out to be treason but now argued as the right to be secret in resources. Not in a war folks…we all have a right to know. And eventually will.

I enjoy Thom’s thoughts that penetrate topics much more than the Mainstream Media. Thom should realize he is a leading edge person independent in a cruel news arena biased with corporate glitz, blitz, and snaring, snarling, punking commercial driven, as stay tuned for the answer to issues that will likely drive America into cultural destitution.

The big three news outlets are loaded with snit remarks, especially from the Fox Republican Wahhabi Tea Party News Corporation highly and likely financed by the Wahhabi Arabs that are forty nine percent stock holds. These oil Arabs have been dancing around the American stock market for decades, you wonder why America has a crazy market. It’s intended.

Furious, believe me as my autonomous handle suggest in the most maniac way…maybe angry as a maniac but not crazy enough to run down a British Military person or American to decapitate with a butcher cleaver and knife.

How disgusting when I heard that news. But it reflects the real core of Islam extremism. From my view it means a young confused generation is duped into creating war for the sole purpose of selling gas. Yes the perfect way for the Arabs to make money, the profiteers that are closely linked to the Bush and Cheney families. The “gas war machine”, that branch of the industrial military complex that profiteers from the grief strife of war, which is the raw combination of American news day after day. The news media are key players.

Moreover listening to the news that somewhere around twenty two military persons from the Iraq, Afghanistan war are committing suicide every day.

As a Vietnam veteran reading and thinking about such alternatives for these military people makes me well up in a deep, deep sorrow with disbelieve and bewilderment. That tallies to about eight thousand troops a year. A number way far greater than what is lost in combat. America we are killing ourselves, Due to the great efforts of the Bush Republican Wahhabi Tea party policies. The Bin Laden/ Bush Cheney oil family is winning. Besides sacking the treasury these politicians load up on oil profiteering.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 11 years 3 weeks ago

NACHOman ~ Did you read my post # 21 entitled "The Real Obama..." It is most enlightening and I'm sure you will want to respond to it.


chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 11 years 3 weeks ago

Liz -- Bravo! I wish I could write with the lucidity that you do.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 11 years 3 weeks ago

DAM -- the real Obama said he wanted to get rid of the AUMF which seems counter to who you consider the real Obama.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 3 weeks ago

"Online Persona Management"...wow! what Big Brother doublespeak, eh? Thanks for that info about Ntrepid...I had not heard of them...or at least, I don't remember reading about them.

Quote web site:
That person you are arguing with in the comment section at the end of Glenn Greenwald's (or Thom Hartmann's*) latest blog about the CIA’s not-so-secret operations in Pakistan may in fact work for the US government. And the corporation that's paid to do the propagandizing has previously touted its experience in identifying 'anarchist networks' and leaders in the United States.

...the company the US is paying to do the propagandizing, NTrepid, has some experience spying not just on violent extremists at home, but also on people who simply don’t like the government.

The DoD is therefore paying a company that monitors the internet use of anarchists and radicals in the United States to actively interfere with and inject pro-military propaganda into online conversations about politics.

* I added "Thom Hartmann's" reference here


MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 11 years 3 weeks ago

That's right KEND, what DANNEMARC has said here is true; Obama is an educated well spoken black man and he's not Bush, but let me put it another way; Obama is a house niggah. (Assuming that you know the difference between a house n*gger and a field n*gger). Put it this way one would wake his master if the house caught fire, the other would watch the mother fucker burn.

But to expand on what DANNEMARC has pointed out; G.W. Bush may be the worst president in the history of the U.S., however he is forgetting about Reagan and Nixion...Even though Obama is not Bush he is NOT ANY BETTER...In fact lets call him "Dark Bush" or Bush II (same 'ol bullshit, but smooth).
Listen up KEND, the "idea" of a Dremocratic process combined with Capitalism IS what at ONE TIME made this country soooo great. But in my opinion, once the U.S. decided to get in the buisness of getting involved in other countries political and social buisness, it was game over. By policing the world, and forcing a U.S. brand of tawdry Commercial Democracy upon other soverning countries - which inturn is the root of why many people (foreign and domestic) do not like the policies of the U.S. - has put We the People on the fast track to becoming prisoners within our own country.
George Washington in his fairwell address said; "...why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground." Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Nixion, Johnson...basically every President since the founding of a Centralized Banking Sysytem has not obliged what Washington said. IN FACT they all with the exception of J.Carter and MAYBE Kennedy, have all worked to further Empire Building through expanding the Military Industrial Complex. Which in turn has underminded the wellbeing and wellfare of every U.S. citizens.

So to FINALLY answer your question KEND; "What makes Americans like Obama"...Americans don't know any better and are a bunch of ignorant hypocritical bigots and foooooooooooools!
The real problem with "Our" culture and why we continue to ellect and settle for less than excellence in "True" leadership is because Americans have done everything they can do to ignor and deny the truth of their destructive wake. If one were to ever take the time to know and understand this truth (and I have)...One would find themselves denouncing their allegence to what has become a Corporate Government...Which is not Of, For, and By the People.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 3 weeks ago
Quote Wikileaks:
WikiLeaks leaks the transcript of $2 million documentary "We Steal Secrets: The Story of Wikileaks" by Oscar-winning director Alex Gibney, ahead of its world-wide release tomorrow night (May 24 2013). The annotated transcript reveals errors and sleight of hand by the director Alex Gibney. The premiere of "We Steal Secrets" is opportunistically timed. Bradley Manning’s 12-week trial commences on Monday 3rd of June. Manning may face life in prison and could potentially face the death penalty. Charges include espionage and aiding the enemy.

The film portrays Manning’s alleged acts as failure of character rather than a triumph of conscience. The portrayal of Manning’s alleged relationship to WikiLeaks and to Assange is grossly irresponsible and suggests – erroneously and when evidence is to the contrary – that Assange may be guilty of conspiring with Bradley Manning to commit espionage or similar offences. The film buys into the current US government position that journalists and publishers can be prosecuted as co-conspirators alongside their alleged sources. This is a dangerous proposition for all journalists and media organizations — not just WikiLeaks. In the context of the US government’s attempts to prosecute journalists who communicate with confidential sources, Gibney’s film could have been an important and timely project. The film barely touches on the US investigation against WikiLeaks, never mentions the words "grand jury", and trivialises the larger issues, perhaps because the film-maker could not secure an interview with Julian Assange.

Neither Julian Assange nor anyone associated with WikiLeaks over the past two-and-a-half years agreed to participate in the film. Stock footage of Assange has been used instead and has been heavily edited, in places seriously distorting what was said. WikiLeaks has however co-operated with other feature documentaries, including a film by respected Academy Award-nominated, US film-maker Laura Poitras, which will be out later this year and another film, co-produced with Ken Loach’s 16 Films, which will be released shortly.

"We Steal Secrets: The Story of Wikileaks" - The annotated transcript


Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 3 weeks ago

excerpt from an interview of Julian Assange by Eric Schmidt (CEO of Google)

Quote Julian Assange:
A few years ago, Nahdmi Auchi was listed by one of the big business magazines in the UK as the fifth richest man in the UK. In 1980 left Iraq. He'd grown rich under Saddam Hussein's oil industry. And is alleged by the Italian press to be involved in a load of arms trading there, he has over two hundred companies run out of his Luxembourg holding unit. And several that we discovered in Panama. He had infiltrated the British Labour political establishment to the degree that the 20th business birthday in London he was given a painting signed by 146 members Commons including Tony Blair. He's the same guy who was the principal financier of Tony Rezko. Tony Rezko was the financier and fundraiser of Rod Blagojevich, from Chicago. Convicted of corruption. Tony Rezko has been convicted of corruption. And Barack Obama. He was the intermediary who helped Barack Obama buy one of his houses and then the money not directly for the house but it buoyed up Tony Rezko's finances came from that... [indistinct]. So during the - this is detail, but it will get to a point. During the 2008 presidential primaries a lot of attention was turned to Barack Obama by the US press, unsurprisingly. And so it started to look into his fundraisers, and discovered Tony Rezko, and then they just started to turn their eyes towards Nadhmi Auchi. Auchi then hired Carter Ruck, a rather notorious firm of London libel solicitors, whose founder, Carter Ruck, has been described as doing for freedom of speech what the Boston strangler did for door to door salesmen.

And he started writing letters to all of the London papers who had records of his 2003 extradition to France and conviction for corruption in France over the Elf-Acquitaine scandal. Where he had been involved in taking kickbacks on selling the invaded Kuwaiti governments' oil refineries in order to fund their operations while Iraq had occupied it. So the Guardian pulled three articles from 2003. So they were five years old. They had been in the Guardian's archive for 5 years. Without saying anything. [strong] If you go to those URLs you will not see "removed due to legal threats." You will see "page not found."[/strong] And one from the Telegraph. And a bunch from some American publications. And bloggers, and so on. Important bits of history, recent history, that were relevant to an ongoing presidential campaign in the United States were pulled out of the intellectual record. They were also pulled out of the Guardian's index of articles. So why? The Guardian's published in print, and you can go to the library and look up those articles. They are still there in the library. How would you know that they were there in the library? To look up, because they are not there in the Guardian's index. Not only have they ceased to exist, they have ceased to have ever existed. Which is the modern implementation of Orwell's dictum that he controls the present controls the past and he who controls the past controls the future. Because the past is stored physically in the present. All records of the past. This issue of preserving politically salient intellectual content while it is under attack is central to what WikiLeaks does -- because that is what we are after! We are after those bits that people are trying to suppress, because we suspect, usually rightly, that they're expending economic work on suppressing those bits because they perceive that they are going to induce some change.


Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 3 weeks ago

The IP Commission Report and why the heck do I even care?
Since these same bastards who have exported our jobs for profits are losing profits because of stolen IP property by other countries are now crying foul, unfair, "we have to do something about this!", I say to hell with them.


DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 11 years 3 weeks ago
Kend previously asked a question:
Quote Kend:I will say it one more time. What has Obama done to make America a better place to live. Oh ya nothing. What is it that makes people like him I don't get it.
I responded:
Quote DAnneMarc:In short, my friend, that is why people like President Obama--because he isn't President Bush! As long as he stays that way, he will be loved--no matter what he screws up!
And MMmmNACHOS then added this comment:
Quote MMmmNACHOS:So to FINALLY answer your question KEND; "What makes Americans like Obama"...Americans don't know any better and are a bunch of ignorant hypocritical bigots and foooooooooooools!

Kend and MMmmNACHOS ~ All I can add is, "Oh, yeah! That too! Thanks MMmmNACHOS!"

By the way, every time I think about the "Obama popularity" I find myself reflecting on that old Mel Brooks movie, Blazing Saddles. Especially the scene where Cleavon Little rides into the town of Rockridge to declare himself the first Black Sheriff of the town and all the white towns people pull their guns out and point them at him. He gets away by pointing his own gun at his head and threatening to kill himself. As he gets away, one woman yells out, "Oh won't someone help that poor man." When he gets away he congratulates himself, "Oh, you are such a good actor, and those people are so dumb."

Oh how fact follows fiction!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 11 years 3 weeks ago
Quote chuckle8:DAM -- the real Obama said he wanted to get rid of the AUMF which seems counter to who you consider the real Obama.

Fair enough ,my friend. However, our dear President Obama, who I assume is "the real Obama," has said a lot of great things. He said he would close Gitmo, investigate the Bush administration for war crimes, to pressure Congress to adopt Single-Payer health care, and he swore he would protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America to name but a few of his lofty promises. How many lies does it take to become a liar? I suggest you go back and reread my post #21 about the recent hearing by the Senate Armed Services Committee. Watch the posted video link to The Democracy Now website. Then ask yourself if these Pentagon officials and right-wing Senators who are putting all this effort into "expanding" the meaning of the AUMF appear for a moment to be concerned about any attempts to get rid of that legislation. Ask if they are putting any thought into their predetermined actions or their potential consequences as well? Don't allow the smoke being blown up your a$$ to cloud your vision!

Thom's Blog Is On the Move

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