Where in the world is Edward Snowden?
By Thom Hartmann A...
Over the weekend, government officials and news agencies were playing a game of “Where's Snowden.” The NSA whistle-blower made a sudden departure from Hong Kong, reportedly traveling to Moscow, Russia. Snowden was then not in his seat for the next flight, which would have brought him from Russia to Cuba. Officials are now unclear if Snowden ever actually made his way to Russia, or if the flight was simply a diversion.
U.S. intelligence officials have warned Western nations that Snowden “should not be allowed to proceed in any further international travel, other than is necessary to return him to the United States.” It appears that warning is meant specifically for the nation of Ecuador, which has granted asylum to WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange. Ecuador's foreign minister, Ricardo Patino, said, “We will consider the position of the U.S. Government and we will make a decision in due course in line with the [Ecuadorean] constitution, the laws, international politics, and sovereignty.”
As of now, there are no confirmed reports on Snowden's actual location, but Reuters is reporting he has received refugee documentation to ensure safe passage to Ecuador. Already tense relations between these countries are being further strained by this new development. The world is watching to see how these events unfold, but it's anyone's guess as to where Edward Snowden may turn up.
Comments
#2
For those who have read "Daemon" by Daniel Suarez, it is obvious that Snowden knows how to set up a computer program to dump his data into countries which would love (or hate) to have it released to them or their enemies. It's like the trusted friend who mails the letter if his friend disappears, only more certain. Certainly Snowden can expect to have an 'intense' encounter with the CIA wherever he lands. If he stays healthy the info. is sequestered and the only downside is a justifiable embarrassment to the US government and its corporate masters. This conjecture assumes that he possesses much info beyond that which he's already exposed which is still an open question.
My position is that these programs are legal and unconstitutional.
#3
We The People are not the solutions to our problems. We The People are the problem.
R. Reagan - January 20, 1981
#4
Touché!!! Of course, that only applies to the little people.
#5
This seems pretty simple to me. Snowden should man up and come back to the US and go through the due process that is granted to every American and be set free or put in jail. If he did nothing wrong I am sure the courts will set him free.
As far as the spying, who cares if you are not doing anything wrong. If it saves even one life its good enough for me.
#6
My biggest fear in these Snowden events is that american intelligence will learn what flight Snowden is on, will shoot down that plane killing dozens, possibly hundreds, of innocent people, and NO ONE in the US administration or congress will be outraged by that act. It fits in with all the actions of the government over the last few years.
#7
Back in your pen with the other sheep, kend. Maybe you like totalitarian governments, but the rest of us prefer freedom. Edward Snowden put a lot on the line to inform of us of the constitutional violations being committed against us by a government out of control. Crawl back in your hole, k-end and let the heavyweights like Snowden, Assange and Manning do the heavy lifting to protect the citizenry like the press is supposed to do, but instead, on the corporate-owned mainstream side, are little more than gutless parrots, mimicking the party line they're fed. You're disgusting.
#8
Drinking the establishment KoolAid Kend?
If you really think the American "justice" system is about "justice" try searching for the Norfolk Four. The "justice" system is designed and intended to protect the interests of the rich and powerful, in this case the embarassment of an out of control government baselessly spying on its own people. Ask Daniel Ellsberg how the american "justice" system works.
Kend, I suggest you are either naive or completely brainwashed.
#9
That's a stupid idea. With the way this fascist gov't is treating whistleblowers and the murder of Michael Hastings last week, what person in their right mind would trust this government? You think their word is good? If you do, get help with every decision you make, because obviously you are incapable.
#10
Are you serious? Our government is so corrupt that right and wrong has been totally eclipsed in favor of weak and strong. A confrontation between Snowden and the justice system in America will produce not only nothing fair, but probably a lot of mayhem a la Guantanamo as payback for the embarassment. What I would like to see is the American people finally getting together and under the rule of law arresting some of the criminals and perverts who are now, and have in the recent past been, running this country.
#11
Right: That's what we are: Brazen, gutless bullies. Who talk about all those terrorists out there that we can't create fast enough. Can the intelligence community be that stupid, or are they just spawns of the devil? Someone needs to take them out--permanently--and save the world a lot of continuing misery. My guess is that if we really had access to all their secrets about all we would learn is that they've been spending a lot of our taxpayer dollars fornicating.
#12
There is blatant manipulation of the interviews Edward Snowden has given. RTtv shows an interview and then I see it again on an American news channel with editing to contrive his statements as untrue by leaving out the last part of his answer.
Here in New Zealand there is a move to change our security laws and the opposition to those changes covered quite well, then a short segment of an American military official stressing that Edward Snowden has hurt America and her allies. Edward Snowden has exposed illegal behavior within his government it is they, The American Government who have put their country in a place where it can be hurt.
#13
I personally think Snowden has more balls than all of congress put together.. I say YES to revealing the truth and telling it like it is. Good job Snowden!! What is unjust is our political system run amok! Snowden should be awarded the congressional medal of honor for having the courage to stand up for what is right and just and telling it like it is.
#14
Obama and the rest of his fellow puppets sure look stupid. Imagine having to grovel for the arrest of someone who exposed the US for the fraud that it is. Obama is a plant and EVERY politician that voted for the "Patriot Act" joke should be tarred and feathered.
Start with Feinstien and Pelosi.
DemocRATs.
You simply cannot rust any democRAT or republiCON. Both parties are filled closet Nazis.
Snowden and Manning should both recieve the Nobel Peace Prize and Obama should wind up with Bush and Cheney at the Hague on trial for war crimes.
#15
Do all of you seriously believe that everything you say on your phones and type on the Internet is private and confidential? Do you know the Chinese, Russia Or North Korea are listening and reading everything you say. Even worst companies are trending everything you do, everything you google, everything you purchase with your credit cards, your flights, the stocks you buy, etc, etc, etc.
And I am the one with my head in the sand. Wow wake up.
#16
Across the country, DAs, Prosecutors, Cops and mainstream media implore us to snitch on individual wrongdoers, and petty and even serious criminals....even if the suspects are neighbors, friends, or family.
But, when it comes to Corporate or Government crimes or misdeeds, the Edward Snowdens and others are not praised and rewarded for coming foreward to expose wrong-doing, or crime-doing. They are criminalized instead.
Can we get a list of which crimes one may snitch on, and which ones not?
The Obama administration comes off as no better than a street gang intimidating anyone who'd testify against them. That's highly illegal if the street thugs do it, but somehow not if Corporate-Government thugs do it.
#17
Well, Well, Well! The very people who entrusted Edward Snowden to outsmart the American people have been outsmarted by Edward Snowden. Who'da thunk it? Who better qualified?
Edward Snowden is an international hero. Obviously others in the anti-establishment tru-Intelligence community are offering him support. Rightfully so! Bravo! I hope he blows the top off of this scandalous assault on our Constitution. Not since George Washington has a braver American stood up and said his peace. God Bless, Edward Snowden!
In response to #16:Quote Kend:And I am the one with my head in the sand. Wow wake up.
No Kend! Your head isn't in the sand. Its in a much darker and bad smelling place. And, no, you are not alone!
#18
Kend ~ If China, Russia, and N. Korea want to listen to anything I say or write illegally, I have recourse. I can get my government to threaten to declare war on them for doing so as a breach of my civil rights. If my own government does it what can I do? I can't insist my own government declare war on itself, can I? We must draw a line in the sand for our own National Security; and, that line is called the US Constitution.
#19
I'm willing to bet that before his death, Bin Laden was well aware and happy to know his actions on 9/11 helped tear apart our IV Amendment via the Patriot Act. I'm also willing to bet that with the realization of billions in wasteful out of control spending to be had, the privatized military industrial spy complex must have rejoiced with him. How do we sort out the enemy here.....spending leading to a, Soviet Union like economic collapse, or a fanatic reveling about being the cause of it?
In my opinion Snowden is fighting back by calling attention to this attack on our civil liberties, the wasteful spending, and the victory it has given Bin Laden. Our Founders would have done the same.
How about using drones to spy on the rate of Polar Cap ice melt?
#20
DRIVERNORTH...You really "believe" Reagan came up with that himself???Reagan was nothing more than another conservative white bigot puppet that other White Corporate bigots liked!
Those bigotted bafoons are still singing his praises...You just proved that!
#21
Perhaps Snowden got hold of something really, really damning of the powers that be in the US...something a lot more damning than that they are spying on us. After all, they have been spying on us for a long time through at least since the 90s (well before 9/11) using the Echelon program. Yes, the momentum of what is now called the Prism program is obviously much more advanced and ubiquitous.
Snowden ostensibly has a lot more to reveal and I understand he will do so periodically. Could it be that he became privy to the truth of 911...who really was behind it...and has cold hard evidence to prove it? Could it be that realizing just how corrupt and criminal, even massively traitorous, those powers are... Snowden is acting as a person with a conscience, a person who sees himself as a loyal American willing to sacrifice his well-being for the greater good of all of us?
When you wake up and realize that tall steel skyscrapers don't fall at near free-fall speed unless the supporting structure is systematically destroyed, as in a demolition. You have to know that 911 was a very sinister, traitorous, and terrorist operation planned and orchestrated by inside powers and not by someone sitting in a cave in Afghanistan (which is where OBL was at the time). After all that has happened, all that you have seen happen over the last decade and more...massive criminal manipulation of our economy...deregulation...housing crises...torture programs...mass murder of innocent civilians...willingness to sacrifice thousands of our own soldiers in fighting a trumped-up criminal war based on lies...and, now, the realization that Big Brother is listening, reading, watching every thing you say and do...just how much is it going to take to make you all look very hard at what our country has become...one that will murder thousands of our own innocent civilians used as a false flag, on 9/11, to make us all very scared enough to give up every last bit of our being. Be scared...be very scared...because the real terrorists are in control of our very being. Sieg Heil!
I wouldn't be surprised if the US government would shoot down an airline full of people if they thought Snowden was on board.
Michael Hastings? Yes, very fishy! I wonder what it was that he had on the government?
#22
I can't help drawing similarities between our government's outrage at any country that gives asylum to Snowden and the old Soviet Union's outrage at America for giving asylum to those who, by speaking out, outraged the Soviet government (Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, etc.). I also wonder if those who want to hunt down Snowden have a reason to believe that the US government is so weak that disclosure of govt actiities would result in its collapse.
#23
You gotta be shitting me.. You sound like an idealistic child (please tell me thats a joke).. Like a totalatarian regime, America seems to be counting up people fleeing our corporate fascist dictatorship.. Wrong or right obviously doesnt matter here..
#24
What we have here is an ad hominem. How about attacking Kend's position but not his person? Something like, "there are a lot of folks still in Guantanamo that don't think the US justice system works very well and we have admitted they are and were innocent." (Response to post #6 by Kend)
#25
I have to admit that I remain highly conflicted about this whole affair. I do find it laughable that the US government would demand that China and Russia hand over the man who revealed our spying against those very countries (and everyone else). There's no small amount of chutzpah in that move.
I also have serious problems with the surveillance state that the US has assembled in the name of security. One wonders who keeps us secure from the security state. In principle, I am opposed to this whole endeavor. I see it as a fundamental threat to a free democratic state.
On the other hand, I recognize that the Cold War lens which I grew up laboring under no longer applies to today's world. There is a part of me that wonders what kinds of non-governmental attacks can be avoided with good intelligence. In such cases, it is difficult to argue that this is a bad thing or that the price is too high. How much freedom from surveillance would the prevention of the Boston Marathon bombings have been worth? Perhaps the freedom from attack is ultimately as valuable as a constrained right to privacy. Hard to say.
But I do not necessarily see Snowden as a hero. If he is as principled as he would have us believe, he might well have been a somewhat naive, somewhat delusional would-be martyr serving a greater cause. But that's an awful lot of hoops to jump through to get to hero. I see an awful lot of naivete and an almost anti-social solipisism in this kid's behavior. His history of interactions with social institutions suggests he's had a chip on shoulder for a long time. I do find it alarming that a company contracted to conduct national security work would hire someone like this. Technological brilliiance alone does not overcome defects in judgment and lack of maturity.
This is a case that defies quick or easy answers. Einstein said all things should be seen as simply as possible but no more so. Beyond simple lies simplistic.
#26
Hello KEND, This is secret agent Uncle Sam with the CIA...We are happy to hear that you are on board with a "by any means necessary" approach to National and Corporate Security. This makes our job much easier to inform you that over the past several months we have gathered information (personal phone calls, texts, and emails) that your children have made and sent. We have come to a hastey conclusion that your children are a threat to the U.S. and they need to be nutralized.
Remember KEND in your words..."If it saves one life its good enough for me" However, we at the CIA can't gurantee that "innocent" lives will be spared...We are never 100% sure of our decisions and Collateral Damage is a bitch, but it's just part of the "game".
CHEERS!!!
#27
Hello again KEND, Special Agent Uncle Sam here with good news...It isn't your kids that we are targeting...its a couple of their friends that we are interested in. It seems that one of them used your daughters computer and phone. That being said I regret to inform you that we cannot guarentee your childrens saftey, they will more than likely end up as Collateral Damage. I know it's a damn shame to snuff out innocent lives, but that's the price of security...Right Kend!?!?No matter how hard we try we can't gurantee anything not even the secracey of the evidence we gather. But hey maybe that's better...You know what I mean??? Besides since your kids were hanging out with the alleged enemy they would have probable gotten more involved. So look at it as a two for one!!!
Peace xoxo
#28
Okay Kend...the job is done...We nutralized the target!!! We are all very happy that the collateral damage was minimum; there were only two innocent people killed by the Drone; it's too soon to say but we think it was one of your kids and some other adult. Not bad though considering the traffic on the street...It could have been waaaaaaay more messy. Anyway thanks for your support and understanding...Now go and live a wonderful and safe life; just don't get caught up in or with anyone suspicious!!!
Enjoy your new found $ecured freedom.
#29
rqhet
#30
Kend, apparently you have never heard of Bradley Manning who was tortured for 8 months in a jail without benefit of counsel or all the other niceties you seem to trust that our American leaders lavish on whistle blowers these days. His crime was to report that there was massive abuses to prisoners, including waterboarding, and he went through the proper channels to report it. Now he's on trial for his life. What happened to the people who were abusing the prisoners? Nothing! So stop believing in the tooth fairy. She's not in this country anymore.
#31
I've thought about that myself stecoop. What keeps turning around in my mind is that I hope that Snowden takes a lessen from Osama Bin Laden. Never, never let his whereabouts be known. But I do wish he'd prepare a video tape and have someone forward it from an unknown location to either Wikileaks, or FSTV for it to be broadcast. I'd like to know that he's okay.
And the audacity of John Kerry to call Snowden a traitor. As far as I'm concerned, more than half of our congressional leaders, the cabinet, the Supreme Court and our president are the traitors. They've walked all over the Constitution with impunity. Had it not been for Snowden, I'd never have known just how bad the eavesdropping and spying went, and I also would not have known that it wasn't even the NSA but a PRIVATE corporation from whom we can't even demand information from under the FOIA.
#32
I see no reason for the conflict. Just compare the treatment Daniel Elsberg received when he leaked Nixon's Pentagon papers with the treatment received by Bradley Manning. When Elsberg was arrested, the judge let him out of jail ON HIS OWN RECOG. That's a far cry from the torture Manning received in the first 8 months after his arrest, then the next few years waiting for his case to come to trial. That's the difference between have the NSA run by the government and our security being farmed out to be run by a bunch of corporate moguls who could not even stop the bombing in Boston when they had a heads-up from Putin in Russia.
The quick answer is (1) give our national security back to the government to handle, and (2) stop calling EVERYTHING classified or in the interest of national security. Not EVERYTHING is in the interest of national security. Some things are in the interest of what's right for the American people. Ed Snowden knew the difference. God bless him.
#33
SHF: I suspect if the whole truth ever really came out - if our bought-and-paid-for media ever went back to telling the whole truth - there would be few left to govern this country. Of course, it would probably be up to the Senate to start doing the digging, taking testimony, putting the pieces together, and then we'd probably see Diane Feinstein go down and a good number of members of the Senate as well, and probably the prez and his cabinet (most having come from Bush's cabinet), joint chiefs - oh goodness, it would be ugly.
But I agree with you, and even Putin said it himself. Putin also said something a while back that I found to be very profound. He said, Why is it when someone opposes the American government they are considered to be Terrorists, yet when someone opposes the Russian government, Americans deem them to be dissidents? I don't believe Putin is a saint, but I don't believe he's the devil incarnate that this country would have us believe. It's much like what the American government tried to make out Hugo Chavez to be when in fact, he cared very much for the downtrodden of his country and developed a socialist society to make sure they were taken care of. He also kicked out the American oil industry (except for Chevron) and the bankers, and formed a sort of loose union among himself and other South American countries such as Ecuador and others to no longer do business with America. In other words, he pissed on us.
#34
It's hard to believe that the people who put these "secret" programs together understand so little about human nature. They need to read the book Tom Jones. The simple fact that one company, Booz Allen, had so much access to so much information is the first problem. This program should either be brought in-house, meaning get rid of private contracts, or broken up. This means that each private company (NOT individuals within the company) be given discrete pieces that are completely without meaning and value alone. Only when those pieces are put together -- at the end -- can anything be made of it all. It is also troubling that the people at the top of these private companies do not have the same patriotism and concern for the well-being of our Constitution and our democracy. These people should have MORE sensitivity to these issues than any grunt worker in their organization. Where are the leaders who used to be sensitive and aware when they were asking their people to do unethical and very possibly illegal things? Wall Street leaders didn't care that they were asking their grunt workers to write worthless derivatives. Now, apparently, CIA contractors are "surprised" that their grunt workers had deep feelings of conflict over the unethical things that were happening on a daily basis. How is it that these stupid men are the CEOs of multimillion dollar companies and I can clearly see that I could do a better job than they are doing? Of course the idiot method of dealing with this is to threaten firing if you talk about the inner conflict you are feeling. That's why I can't understand why idiots are earning so much money. If there is even one smart person working in the CIA, they better get to work and explain things to the idiots. Threats and intimidation cannot overcome a poorly designed program. Too much power in the hands of any human being will ALWAYS be abused. Stop giving public information to private companies.
First of all, listen to your people. If one person is conflicted about spying on Americans, maybe you should listen. Maybe some of your people are taking the information and doing questionable things. We know about Edward Snowden, but we don't know about other people who might be doing even worse things with this information -- just not publicly and not to respected journalists. In the end, the real problem is that Edward Snowden wasn't the only person who felt the "thrill" of having access to such personal information on so many people. Those other people don't want to let go of that power.
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Well, I would just like to go on record as saying, "How Dare Edward Snowden illegally spy on the agency that is illegally spying on us?"
Just as an aside, I wonder how easy it would be for one of the corporations that handle America's spying, and that have full access to all of the phone calls and emails of everyone in congress and the white house, to blackmail people in congress and the white house. But of course they would never do that.