Detroit is broke.

On Thursday, the Motor City became the largest in U.S. history to file for bankruptcy. After decades of factory closings, and a massive decline in population, even Governor Rick Snyder's little dictator – Kevyn Orr – couldn't save the city from financial ruin. Now that Mr. Orr has moved Detroit into bankruptcy court, creditors will be forced to accept pennies on the dollar for the city's debt. Of course, Governor Snyder and Mr. Orr are calling for huge cuts to Detroit's union and pension contracts, which they've been after for some time.

Even before the bankruptcy, Mr. Orr tried to convince these groups to accept 10 cents on the dollar, and blamed public unions for the city's financial strain. Because the pension groups refused the so-called offer, Mr. Orr and Governor Snyder are blaming the bankruptcy on public workers. In a press release yesterday, Governor Snyder wrote, “Despite Mr. Orr's best efforts, he has been unable to reach a restructuring plan with the city's creditors. I therefore agree that the only feasible path to a stable and solid Detroit is to file for bankruptcy protection.”

In a press conference today, Mr. Orr indicated that secured creditors will be favored over unsecured – translation – Detroit workers are screwed. Governor Snyder has offered no alternatives other to throwing workers under the bus, like investing in the city by creating jobs and repairing infrastructure, which could be done using state funds. Instead, Snyder and Orr will use three decades of Reaganomics, outsourcing, and wage decline to destroy public unions and sell the city off in parts. And, it won't be long before Republican lawmakers in other states catch on, and use forced austerity measures to do the same in their states.

Comments

SassyLass924's picture
SassyLass924 9 years 28 weeks ago
#1

Dear Thom,

I would like to suggest you interview Attorney Jerome Goldberg, who can speak to you regarding how the banks devastated our city (Detroit) with foreclosures since he is a People's Attorney. He can answer any questions from foreclosures to what the Emergency Manager's real job is here since one of our co-founders (through FOIA requests) requested all documentation between the banks and the City of Detroit for the past 10 years.

The following is a video of Jerry speaking at a public meeting for the review team for Detroit's finances on Monday, March 26, 2012 in Detroit.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXNMYoogu6E

The following are our websites:

Attorney Goldberg can be reached at the following phone number: 1 (313) 319-0870.

Thank you,

Jean Irwin

RaleighMom's picture
RaleighMom 9 years 28 weeks ago
#2

The coverage on CNBC today was very interesting. They went to pains to say that the portion of Detroit's debt held by foreign banks is "guaranteed" by water and sewer fees. They also mentioned that an "undisclosed" investor was given the "opportunity" a short time ago, to buy a large portion of the debt for 66 cents on the dollar. That investor hopes to sell their "investment" during the bankruptcy for 80 cents on the dollar and plans to make a very large profit on their "investment."

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000184336&play=1

The questions I have are: Did Mr. Orr "organize" this bankruptcy so as to "protect" J.P. Morgan and other foreign banks, while doing nothing to protect retirement obligations? Will the bankruptcy judge look the other way? Also note that Mr. Orr "rushed" to file this bankruptcy before it could be blocked by the pension-holders. That is not being reported, anywhere.

Phil_in_CA 9 years 28 weeks ago
#3

I sure do wish someone would connect the dots between the Justice Luis Powell Memo, the outsourcing of jobs, the crash of the economy, and our infrastructure that is falling around us, and REPORT OUT to the public!

I am sure that this has been the wet-dream of corporate America since the case "Santa Clara v. Southern Pacific" at the end of the 1800s.

Come on, Tom! If anyone can connect the dots on the systematic take-over of this country by corporate interests, for the singular benefit of the rich, YOU CAN!

Thanks for all that you have done and are doing!

dowdotica's picture
dowdotica 9 years 28 weeks ago
#4

sad,sad,sad. just google images of detroit. detroit today? America tomorrow! Why? Duh! to think that as a native michigander i once aspired to trek to detroit as a youth thinking i'd be a line worker and live in some old brownstone, grow old have a tarrino parked in the driveway and drink miller beer while the wife hangs laundry to dry in those humid summer breezes. why do i care? don't really know 'cept it hits home when i recall my own home town and how one day industry just vanished and it's now more like crackville then any middle class small town i'd ever think of raising a kid in. Yup folks, my crystal ball tells me if washington and wall street don't get it together soon 20 years form now a lot of America will look like Deteriorationoit. PS. Sure would love to buy the old central depot and spruce it up, maybe turn it into a music/ art school or something...

dowdotica's picture
dowdotica 9 years 28 weeks ago
#5

oh and it couldn't hurt to have people like me working in municiple accounting and audits. i don;t need to rape the city i just need a honest wage for honest work and i'd make dam sure the pennies are properly appropriated. hmm, makes ya wonder just how much funding dissappears out the back door...

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 28 weeks ago
#6

It is amazing how a city can go from 1.7 million to 700,000 in such a short time. I don't imagine massive wages and pension and health care liabilities had any thing to do with it. High taxes chased all the money away. When will the left learn.

I heard that 80% of all pension funds are grossly under funded. Hold on this is just the start. How can you put a few hundred dollars a month into a pension fund for 25 years and get thousands a month for 40 years and not run out of money.

Very very sad.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 28 weeks ago
#7

Republican Austerity

A man walks into a bathroom and up to a urinal next to a very short hairy young man. While relieving himself he can't help but notice that the little man is incredibly endowed. "My God!" He exclaims. "You certainly are unproportionally endowed! Congratulations!"

In an Irish accent the little man explains. "Tis nothing, Lad. You see, I'm a Leprechaun. Such a condition is characteristic of my people."

"Oh, I see." Said the man. "Wait a minute! You're a Leprechaun? And I saw you. That means you owe me three wishes."

"Alright, you got me. What be ya wishes?"

"I want a Billion dollars!"

"Very well. Go to your bank and you'll see your account topped off at $1 billion. What be ya second wish, Lad?"

"I want a huge mansion on a hill with a beautiful wife."

"Very well, Lad. When you go home tonight, you will find your home has become a three story mansion and your beautiful Lass wait'in for ya. What be ya last wish, Lad?"

"I want to be endowed just like you."

"Oh, no Lad! I'm sorry! Can't do that. That would be against the code of the Leprechaun."

"I insist!" Demanded the man. "I saw you! You have to do anything I ask!"

"Aye, you got me." The Leprechaun sighed. "But to do it, I'll have to rape you."

"What?"

"It's the only way Lad. The code of the Leprechaun, you know."

After thinking about it for a minute, the man agrees, lowers his pants and bends over the sink. "I'll do anything to be hung like that." He says. The Leprechaun responds in kind. Several minutes later the Leprechaun finishes and immediately pulls his pants back up. The man still bent over the sink howls out in pain. Crying with tears streaming down his face he exclaims, "I can't believe I just let you do that too me!"

Walking out of the bathroom door the Leprechaun pauses and says, "Laddie, I can't believe you think I'm a Leprechaun!"

What have we learned from this story. Two things. First, If something sounds too good to be true it probably is. Secondly, people tend to be very gullible when you tell them exactly what they want to hear.

Austerity is nothing more than smoke and mirrors designed to rape the masses.

stecoop01's picture
stecoop01 9 years 28 weeks ago
#8

That's a good one! And SOOO TRUE.

Bounty hunter's picture
Bounty hunter 9 years 28 weeks ago
#9

Something must be wrong with the universe! I agree with Thom........I'll leave it at that....before the gravity quits gravitating....

George Reiter's picture
George Reiter 9 years 28 weeks ago
#10

Let me preface my attack on the Republican Party and the Republicans of today by professing that I do not engage in Ad Hominem attacks. After my observing the Republican Party for 32 years of Reaganomics, and the “Two Santa Clauses or How the Republican Party Has Conned American For Thirty Years”, I’ve deduced that Republicans fall into three categories: The Rich, the Cruel, or the Politically Ignorant, and they are not mutually exclusive.

Mauiman2's picture
Mauiman2 9 years 28 weeks ago
#11

Mr. Reiter, I understand that you think everything that is wrong with the world is the Republican's fault, but can you really lay the mess in Detroit at the Republican's feet?

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 28 weeks ago
#12
Quote Mauiman2:Mr. Reiter, I understand that you think everything that is wrong with the world is the Republican's fault, but can you really lay the mess in Detroit at the Republican's feet?

Mauiman2 ~ A very fair question! The answer, yes, you can lay the mess in Detroit at the Republican's feet. This whole disaster is the dream child of President Ronald Wilson Reagan--the 666 Beast. Are the Republicans totally responsible--you might ask? The answer, of course, is no. It was President Clinton that drove in the final nails of the coffin of 'free trade.'

Then, who, you might ask, can we blame fully for the mess in Detroit and across the country. The answer is Multi-National Corporations. For it is these entities that own both political parties and have the most to gain from Industrial flight; and, the least to gain from supporting the American Labor Force.

"Too big to fail," is a red herring. "Too big to succeed," needs to be the battle cry!

I hope that answers your question!

THFan-1's picture
THFan-1 9 years 28 weeks ago
#13

I blame Clinton and Bush. Bush who stood by for 8 long years while this was going on and did absolutely nothing to help. The entire GOP stopped anything from recovery during the first 4 years of the Obama administration and nobody is calling them out on this in congress.

Recently I watched as the GOP side of the isle who were all were laughing and holding their hands over their mouths laughing so hard. It was after Sen Reid was trading the GOP to get votes for nominations and giving up 2 labor nonimations.

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 28 weeks ago
#14

DAnne interesting how Americans always bring up the past. Reagan has been gone for how many years now, you hear about slavery still over and over when there hasn't been a slave in America for hundreds of years. Maybe if all that time and effort was spent on the future and current changes things would get better. Look at Germany. They where by far the most hated people in the world just 70 years ago. They had no money, there infrastructure was completely gone and they had to pay restitution to all the countries they blew up. I believe they just finished paying that just a few years ago. Today they are a thriving properous nation.

My point is Reagan did what was needed in the 80's to get out of a ressession then, and it worked. He is not responsible for anything after he left. Everything he did could of been changed by the next president. The problem is all the presidents since haven't done anything. Blame the one who has had the last five years to make things better.

akunard's picture
akunard 9 years 28 weeks ago
#15

Why is it the cities/states that are in BIG financial trouble are long time Democrat controled but it is still the Republicans who caused the problem?

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 28 weeks ago
#16

Kend ~ Your logic never ceases to amaze me. Do you ever think about anything before you say it? Reagan is not responsible for anything that happened after his presidency? That's like saying Washington left no impact on the country after he left office. To this day we call our capital, "DC." The Louisiana Purchase bought by Thomas Jefferson was sold back to the Indians immediately after he left office. The slaves freed by Lincoln were re enslaved immediately after Lincoln was assassinated. The Panama Canal collapsed when Theodore Roosevelt left office. The National Highway system was buried under dirt then Dwight Eisenhower left office. The Civil Rights Act was repealed immediately after LBJ left office. The Patriot Act was repealed immediately after GWB left office.

You yourself point out the history of Germany. Yet did you not just say that Germany just recently finished paying off restitution to all the countries they blew up when Hitler was Chancellor? 70 years after the man's death and he still is having a huge impact on that country, right? It was Hitlers fault, right? Kend, do you want to tell me again exactly why Reagan can leave office without any guilt or responsibility for anything he did and that his actions could have no impact on the country after his term? Everyone on this blog--with the exception of those like yourself--are well aware of the laundry list of disastrous policies of Ronald Wilson (666) Reagan that are still locking this country in a choke hold. I'm not going to insult their intelligence or waste my time listing them.

Regardless, your argument falls apart on its own gravity. Look out below, nonsense coming through--collapsing upon itself at nearly free-fall speed!

akunard's picture
akunard 9 years 28 weeks ago
#17

The Voodoo economics that Ronald and Art put in place allowed Bill to look like a economic genius.

If John Maynard Keynes was correct in his General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money we would be in boom times by now.

Am I the only one here who has studied that book?

mondolay1949's picture
mondolay1949 9 years 28 weeks ago
#18

I think the GOP is disgraciful stealing from the working class, living for free off hard working people; there's no dignity in this, to deem themselves proud, and say we made it on our own. These people don't know the meaning of a hard days work, and the Tea Party are far more extreme; it's time to raise taxes: To prior the Reagan years on the top 2% and corporations doing business in the USA at 39% of their profit. Our Free Trade Aggreemente is nothing more than FOODS STAMPS for transnational corporations "Outsourcing US Jobs" where labor is dirt cheap.

It time to invest in our children; education should be our number prior, wipe-out illiteratcy, science, mathemathics, world history, civics, and our political procees as well as knowing how our financial institutions work. We need to build new schools, remodel our old ones, build new roads a highways, repairing our old ones. We need a high speed rail system that travels at 250 miles per hour from coast to coast stopping only at the ten largest cities. We need more new homes, maintain our landscape to prevent natural disassters from happening, and we must remodel comdemned properties, or knock them down. We must restore the safety-net, lift the cap on social security, and provide medicare for all our citizens.

akunard's picture
akunard 9 years 28 weeks ago
#19

Mon, where do Nancy P and her husband get their money. Did you know Nancy introduced and passed leg. to exempt American Samola fron U.S. min wage laws. Look up why!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 28 weeks ago
#20

akunard ~ Thanks for that tidbit on Nancy Pelosi. Unfortunately, she already lost my vote when she addressed her constituency and overruled their insistence that Edward Snowden be pardoned. That was the last nail in her coffin. She and Diane Feinstein are out of office as far as I am concerned. I'm still voting for Barbara Boxer though. Any surprises there?

This just goes to show that any public servant should be free and clear of any personal business ventures that may compromise their position. Such a venting process should occur before candidates qualify to run for office and annually when in office as well.

Mike-C's picture
Mike-C 9 years 28 weeks ago
#21

Government bankruptcy certainly isn't new -

Here is a partail list of other U S city bankruptcies. Further below are some of the countries that became insolvent. If you research the reasons why, they all boil down to incompetent fiscal management. If we go back to the 1800's, we could add a slew of gold and silver mining cities too.

Hamilton Creek Metropolitan District, Summit County, Colorado, 1989

Orange County, California, 1994

Prichard, Alabama, 1999

Desert Hot Springs, California, 2001

Millport, Alabama, 2005

Los Osos, California, 2006

Moffett, Oklahoma, 2007

Gould, Arkansas, 2008

Vallejo, California, 2008

Westfall Township, Pike County, Pennsylvania, 2009

Washington Park, Illinois, 2009

Prichard, Alabama, 2009

Central Falls, Rhode Island, August 2011

Jefferson County, Alabama, November 2011, over $4 billion in debt (largest Chapter 9 bankruptcy until Detroit fail)

Stockton, California, June 28, 2012

Mammoth Lakes, California 2012

San Bernardino, California on 2012

Detroit, Michigan 2013

Agentina 2001 Germany 1920's
France 8 times between 1500 and 1800
Spain 4 times in 1500's
Equador 6 times since 1830

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 9 years 28 weeks ago
#22

Very well put DANNEMARC.
...Also KEND, you don't seem to understand that when it comes to a government that is owned and opperated by Corporations rather than We the People...It is dangerou$ly ea$y to write and in$tall policie$$$, but it is not easy to reform them, for obviou$ rea$on$, one being that more often than not it just leads to a bigger mess and more wacky policies that still only bennifits the Corporations, and the few who serve them, without any consideration for what the country and its people want and need as a whole.
IT'S TIME TO TAKE OUT THE TRASH...REVOLUTION IS EASIER THAN REFORM!

I would also like to point out to you KEND, and your junky addiction to BIG OIL; Germany (along with several other industrial nations) is leading the way in modern Green Energy through policies that are ment to bennefit EVERYONE. After less than three decades Germany's plan to eliminate reliance to nuclear energy by 2050 was moved up to nuclear free by 2025. Now that's impressive, and shows just what a country can accomplish when it writes policies that work towards bennefiting the country as a whole, and not just corporations.

One other thing KEND...That no one "owns" slaves anymore does not mean slavery is nonexcitant! Don't believe me???Just ask those who are forced to work for poverty level wages and without any bennefits. Just ask those who work for the L.A. shipping port, (the largest port in N.America, second largest in the world), about the threats they are facing from the Wal Mart Corporation who wants to move the Port to S. Baja Mexico. Why!?!?Less regulations, no unions, lower wages...All equals more money for the few who are wheeling and dealing at the expense of the masses. In other words Profit before people. That you consider this to be "Just doing buisness" and not as a form of slavery, really proves that your general perspective of the world we live in is clouded by Corporate Propaganda, and you are in deep. You're kind of like a Wal Mart CEO, or most CEO's, just as long as you get yours life is good.

cheers!

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 28 weeks ago
#23

DAnne, Reagan was elected to get USA out of a terrible resession and that is exactly what he did. Reagan put policies in place that convinced Americans to spend their hard earned money and it worked. What policies did Reagan put in place that are so damaging? Why hasn't anyone changed the in thirty years? Remember I am Canadian maybe I am missing something.

Nachos, we are all addicted to big oil. Germany buys most of its energy from Eastern Europe (coal). The modern green energy you are talking about is just smoke and mirrors, I guest it is working you bought it. As far as the CEO thinking you are talking about. There job is to make as much money as they can for there share holders. These are private companies it is none of our business what they do. Yes it is profit before poeple that is twashatwashat

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 28 weeks ago
#24

Quote Kend:DAnne, Reagan was elected to get USA out of a terrible recession and that is exactly what he did. Reagan put policies in place that convinced Americans to spend their hard earned money and it worked. What policies did Reagan put in place that are so damaging? Why hasn't anyone changed the in thirty years? Remember I am Canadian maybe I am missing something.

Kend ~ Bless your little heart! To say you are "missing something" is the understatement of the year. A terrible recession got Reagan elected? Are you making up your own history? Two things got Reagan elected and they were both manufactured by the family and connections of George H. W. Bush. You remember, the vice Presidential running mate of Ronald Reagan and the ex-head of the CIA.

Iran had seized a number of American Hostages (52 to be exact for 444 days--November 4, 1979 to January 20, 1981) and President Carter was not able to negotiate their freedom. The first story on the nightly news for over a year prior to the election was "Day X, The American Hostage Crisis In Iran." The media played up the story really good along with the "Gas Shortage Crisis." Both stories made President Jimmy Carter look like an useless incompetent leader. He wasn't able to make any progress on either 'crisis.' The reason as we all learned later was because Bush struck a deal with Iran to hold the hostages till the election was over. (You see the Bush family has a history of manipulating terrorists to serve it's own political purposes.) An act of treason the Reagan administration was never investigated for. In addition, the Bush family used their OPEC connections to orchestrated the phony fuel crisis which lead to sky rocketing fuel costs and gas sanctioning. A little historical tidbit that pissed everyone off. Ironically, after the election and ever since, gas sanctioning has never occurred again. Imagine that! What a coincidence! The economy was booming despite any minor recession and had nothing to do with the Reagan election!

The Reagan agenda was to boost revenue for the wealthy. His plan was to max out the countries credit, reduce wages by destroying labor unions, and burden future generations with the bill. In short, he rifled the Treasury. He was a reverse Robin Hood who stole from the poor to give to the wealthy. There was nothing benevolent about his economic policy. It was, and is, and still will be a national disaster of biblical proportions. The true damage that this policy will eventually have on the country still remains to be seen because no President since Reagan has reversed it and begun to pay for the damage of it. When that finally happens the blame will probably be incurred by the President who initiates the reparation policy. Since it is unlikely that a President would willfully invite that much hostility it is far more likely that our creditors will either call in the loan or cut off the credit. That will either lead to a war, a civil war, a revolutionary war, or the greatest Depression the world has ever seen. Whatever the outcome it will not be pleasant. All the fault and blame will forever fall at the feet of the man who made it all possible--President Ronald Wilson (666) Reagan. History will no doubt remember him as one of the worst leaders the world has ever known. His name will go down in infamy along with Emperor Nero. He will become a model in school books on negative leadership practices, and the leading textbook example of the effects of runaway capitalism and the greatest enemy of the world economy and common people. I wouldn't even be surprised if his name becomes synonymous with efforts doomed to catastrophic failure the same way that Benedict Arnold is synonymous with treason. "Better not Reagan that credit card or you'll regret it!"

Quote Kend:As far as the CEO thinking you are talking about. There job is to make as much money as they can for there share holders. These are private companies it is none of our business what they do. Yes it is profit before poeple that is twashatwashat

Kend ~ Thanks Kend! I almost forgot about Reagan's disastrous policy of deregulation of Industry. Another trend who's full damage is yet unknown. Let us hope that this hasn't directly led to the total destruction of our environment. Time will tell. Certainly it will lead to millions or more deaths, illnesses, and birth defects. How far will that damage go till reasonable regulations are restored? With Reagan's industrial flight companies have been able to poison some of the most beautiful areas of the third world. I've had the unfortunate opportunity to witness much of that travesty with my own eyes. Another 'glowing' memory from the Reagan legacy. I'm sure our children will think of him fondly when they look for vacation spots that they can go to that are still safe.

The Green policy of Germany is just smoke and mirrors? Are you kidding us? Despite what stages of progress Germany is undergoing you are quite mistaken by trying to undermine their progress with any business they are still doing with the fossil fuel industry. Widespread change doesn't happen overnight; but, what has occurred in Germany is fantastic and an example to the world. Personally, I can't wait to install solar panels on the roof and get my family off the grid. Quite frankly Kend, there is nothing you can say that is going to change my mind. But, thanks for trying!

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 28 weeks ago
#25

DAnne, you and I will never agree on anything. I believe if you leave more money in private hands they will spend it and you, I think, believe it is in much better hands when the government takes it and they spend it. I have read that there is trillions of dollars sitting in American bank accounts just waiting to be spent but with threats of higher taxes and uncertainty with all the Heath care changes and the Fed in general people are just sitting on it. Reagan did get people spending again didn't he. Again if those policies are so bad why didn't anyone in thirty years change them? As far as deregulation I thing there is a pretty strong argument that Americans are regulated to death.

I guess I just find it odd that anyone would blame someone who hasn't been in office for thirty years. I would blame the ones since who you elected that didn't change it.

Solar panels, after learning what they are made of and the horrific ways the materials are mined to make them, I am reluctant to go that way. talk about ruining the environment I guess it's ok because it's not in your country.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 28 weeks ago
#26

Kend ~ Reagan got people to spend more money alright. He got people to spend other peoples money and max out their credit. Debt isn't prosperity; and, a very poor example of responsibility. As far as where money belongs I think it belongs in the hands of everyone. After all, everyone needs it to survive don't they? Why give one group exclusive rights over everyone else. Poverty is unnecessary and doesn't help our society as a whole or the world in general.

As far as why the other Presidents since Reagan didn't correct the problem? You are right! They did nothing! Remember President Clinton balanced the budget; but, he didn't pay off the loan. There is a big difference. When Bill Clinton was President it was still possible to pay the interest and nibble away at the loan a bit. If we could have kept that up for the next 75 years or so we might have been just fine. Yet President Clinton himself made that impossible with the Free Trade Agreement. Intentionally, Clinton sabotaged our revenue base to make breaking even on the loan in the future impossible.

To further sabotage the economy, President George W. Bush gave massive tax cuts to the only group in the country still generating revenue. This left us forcing to borrow money just to pay the interest on the Reagan loan. Furthermore, he increased that debt by plunging the country into unnecessary foreign wars. President Obama, on the other hand put that madness on steroids without any attempts to increase revenue. Why did all these Presidents intentionally take a big problem and let it turn into a catastrophy?

Now Kend, when you look at the big picture it becomes very confusing as to why these leaders would have done so little to save the country and so much to destroy it. That is if you look at it with healthy honest logic. That does not answer the question. To answer that question my friend I will suggest you read post # 4 in this very blog, by Phil_in_CA. In it there is a reference to a document called the Powell Memo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell,_Jr.

Complete Transcript:

http://law.wlu.edu/deptimages/Powell%20Archives/PowellMemorandumTypescript.pdf

Here, Associate Justice of The Supreme Court, Lewis F. Powell, Jr lays out the agenda that has led to the destruction of our economy and way of life. If you want to see the reason in the madness, read this short memorandum and weep. This directive has influenced all major groups of wealthy elites and every Presidential Administration in this country since written in August 1971; with, perhaps the single exception of Jimmy Carter. It was President Ronald Wilson (666) Reagan that put the philosophy on steroids and made it official policy.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 27 weeks ago
#27

Akunard,

you might, in fact, be the only one here who read that book but I wouldn't trust your review of it, judging from your reading of history - and current events.

For God's sake! Reagan\Bush ballooned the deficit and Clinton got it to a SURPLUS! Reagan/Bush completely SABOTAGED the economy and left the mess for Clinton. Clinton got NO help from Reagan/Bush.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 27 weeks ago
#28

Mauiman2,

was the deindustrialisation of the United States the doing of Reaganesque Republicans?

The simple fact is, there was no other city in the United States as heavily dependant on industry and manufacturing for its local economy so Detroit was completely devastated by it.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 27 weeks ago
#29

Kend,

the reason the auto industry can't make it in the United States is because the U.S. is the ONLY industrialized country without a national healthcare system.

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 9 years 27 weeks ago
#30

KEND...Have you ever, just once questioned the policies and agenda of the "reich" wing party???Have you ever heard the saying "Hindsight is 20/20"?
KEND you seem to like NeoAmerica, aka Corporate America, where as you pointed out it's all about keeping the share holders fat and happy...A country run by a Government that has drifted further and further away from its original establishment; a Democratic System of, for and by the People, and in just a short 30+ years has become a country for the and by the few.
The original American Dream was never about stomping on the dreams of the masses in order to make a profit and be successful. It wasn't about just keeping the pockets of the few stuffed. Sure there has always been competion, but that actually made people strive to produce a quality product at affordable prices. True there have always been Snake Oil Salesmen, Robbers, Barrons, and Scoundrels, but we also have a history in this country where many blue collar average working class Americans fought back against unfair wages, unsafe working consitions, etc, and established labor laws through collective barganning, and better trade agrements with our allies.
Henry Ford, an American Buisness Icon, once said: A fare wage is one that enables workers to meet their basic needs as well as consumers that stimulate the ecconomic growth."
All BIG corporations such as Wal Mart, could very easily raise the base wage to 18.00 per hour without having to make cuts to those at the top, or without having to raise prices. The Proof is with Wal Mrts competitor Cosco, Where the wages for full time stock clerks and Cashiers start at 16.00 per hour, and after one year employees qualify for health bennefits, paid vacation, and even retirement bennefits....How obsurd!!! Instead Wal Mart creates poverty workers and then helps them sign up for Government Assitence...Which is so ass backwards and distructive to all communities.

But you never do question such corporate propaganda.

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 27 weeks ago
#31

Mark your auto industry is doing very well in the southern US where they don't have the massive pension and health care liabilities.

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 27 weeks ago
#32

you are probaly right about Walmart not paying enough but it is a free country we don't have to work there or shop there. For every shitty company like Walmart there are hundreds of great companies to work for.

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 9 years 27 weeks ago
#33

Okay KEND...Name 100 "American" companies who employ 1000 employees or more, pay their lowest level workers a wage of 15.00 per hour or more, pays into a retirement plan, pays at least half of family health insurance coverage, at least two weeks paid vacation per year, and earned sick leave.

Remember KEND these 100 non shitty companies have to be American companies and meet ALL of these formentioned requierments in order to qualify as Top 100 "Non-Shitty" Companies To Work For.

Additional bennefits to the above list are, but not required, would be; Employee Share Hold, 6 weeks paid maternity leave, additional paid vacation time beyond 2 weeks, and double time for ovettime hours.

C'mon KEND name them...I double dog dare ya!

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 9 years 27 weeks ago
#34

Kend you seem to think that because it's a "Free Country" one can act irresponsable and not have to be accountable for the consequences that steem from unethical buisness practices.
Much of what you support and encourage - the dismantleing of Collective Bargainning, Underminding Labor Laws, upholding Corporate Personhood, Wages that are not intune with the basic cost of living, etc., is so contradicting why "our" country (which is not yours), was once a mecca for Industry. The break down of American Industry wasn't caused because of workers demanding that work places be regulated to meet safer standards, or that wages be made fair and in tune with the basic cost of living! What really broke the American Industry is greed from the top, with no concern for the American Worker Bee. For the last 30 years, starting with Ronnie 666 Wilson Regain, (Borowed the "666" from DanneMArc), American Corporations have writen policies and passed policies that are aimed at deregulating Labor Laws Safety Standards, and maintain Low Wages, which in turn undermind the wellbeing of American workers...Disposing of their future. And whenever such efforts failed American based Companies sent those jobs overseas.
That there "may be" 100 American companies to work for that are not "Shitty" by independently set the bar high for maintaining a quality work enviroment and pride themselves on creating good paying jobs that enable its employees the ability to live an prosperous and healthy life is good, but it is far from being supportive of a healthy and prosperpous country as a whole.

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 27 weeks ago
#35

I didnt say anything about 1000 Employiees or more. I can start with all of the energy companies maybe with the exception of coal. Phone companies, basically any skilled labour.

the problem is the government got so far ahead of the private industry with wages and benifits that private companies can't keep up. As far as health care goes, I have government health care but then you factor in how much more taxes we pay In Canada it works out the same. It does benefit the business owners though, less paper work. Remember most countries with government health care just offer the very basics. Large companies here offer all the good benefits. Drugs, eye care, dental etc.

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 9 years 27 weeks ago
#36

Kend you seem to think that because it's a "Free Country" one can act irresponsable and not have to be accountable for the consequences that steem from unethical buisness practices. Much of what you support and encourage - the dismantleing of Collective Bargainning, Underminding Labor Laws, upholding Corporate Personhood, Wages that are not intune with the basic cost of living, etc., is so contradicting why "our" country (which is not yours), was once a mecca for Industry. The break down of American Industry wasn't caused because of workers demanding that work places be regulated to meet safer standards, or that wages be made fair and in tune with the basic cost of living! What really broke the American Industry is greed from the top, with no concern for the American Worker Bee. For the last 30 years, starting with Ronnie 666 Wilson Regain, (Borowed the "666" from DanneMArc), American Corporations have writen policies and passed policies that are aimed at deregulating Labor Laws Safety Standards, and maintain Low Wages, which in turn undermind the wellbeing of American workers...Disposing of their future. And whenever such efforts failed American based Companies sent those jobs overseas. That there "may be" 100 American companies to work for that are not "Shitty" by independently set the bar high for maintaining a quality work enviroment and pride themselves on creating good paying jobs that enable its employees the ability to live an prosperous and healthy life is good, but it is far from being supportive of a healthy and prosperpous country as a whole.

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 9 years 27 weeks ago
#37

No KEND, "You" didn't say that...I did, as part of my qualifications for the type of companies we are talking about.
But more importantly, your inability to not name 100 companies that would meet the criteria I laid out makes you generalized staement a bit moot.

To address your generalized statment regarding "all of the energy companies, with exception to coal. Phone companies, basically any skilled labor." Are you suggesting that there are 50 million American entry level job positions available within skilled labor...Huh?!?! I guess what you are saying is that all those skilled American workers who lost their jobs and have been unemployed, or underemployed for the past several years are just unskilled!

As for your comment generalizing Universal Health Insurance...I can name 5 countries with "socialized" health insurance that cover waaaaaaay more than just, as you put it; "just the basics". Australia, New Zealand, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, & Finland...Okay I lied I know of 6 countries whoes health insurance plan covers more than the sniffles!
When Americans talk about wanting a Universal Health Insurance System...No one here in the U.S. is talking about Stalinism. Rest assured KEND most average tax payers do not want to mirror a Universal Health Insurance System after another countries failed system. We are well aware that there is a sour history that surounds the word "socialism", but at the same we know that with the right people and proper policy - one that is about insuring full medical treatment and preventative health care for the wellbeing of ALL Americans - we can champion a sytem that truely functions at a level better than our current system.
The United States of America could easily become Champions of a social helath insurance system...How, you ask??? Well we already have a tax system inplace we just need to reform how that money is spent. I am all for large budget cuts to the Military, Deffence Dept, and all Federal bureaus such as, the FBI, CIA, NSA, etc. Also cut funding to 30 year failed War on Drugs act. And last but not least, Stop spending tax payers money on proping up arbitrary foreign governments.

As Thomas Jefferson said in his first inaugural address; "peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entagling alliences with none."
Several years earlier George Washington stated in his Farewell Address; "Harmony, liberal intercourse with all nation, are recommended by policy, humanity, and interest...but even our commercial policy should not hold an equal and impartial hand; neither seeking nor gathering exclusive favors or preferences." Washington went on to say; "Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground."
These are two of America's Founding Fathers, those who helped draft and sign the Declaration of Independence. Sadly though we have spent the past 113 years underminding this sensible advice. And we are liveing first hand the consequences. But even if the founding fathers advice is "acknowledged" at all it is quicly dismissed on the grounds that we do not live in their times! Which is a very hackneyed argument since today's more complex world cries out for the moral clarity of a noninterventionalist foreign policy much like that of our early days as a soverning nation.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 27 weeks ago
#38
Quote MMmmNACHOS:The United States of America could easily become Champions of a social helath insurance system...How, you ask??? Well we already have a tax system inplace we just need to reform how that money is spent. I am all for large budget cuts to the Military, Deffence Dept, and all Federal bureaus such as, the FBI, CIA, NSA, etc. Also cut funding to 30 year failed War on Drugs act. And last but not least, Stop spending tax payers money on proping up arbitrary foreign governments.

Well said! I couldn't agree more! I thought it deserved restating!

Quote MMmmNACHOS:These are two of America's Founding Fathers, those who helped draft and sign the Declaration of Independence. Sadly though we have spent the past 113 years underminding this sensible advice. And we are liveing first hand the consequences. But even if the founding fathers advice is "acknowledged" at all it is quicly dismissed on the grounds that we do not live in their times! Which is a very hackneyed argument since today's more complex world cries out for the moral clarity of a noninterventionalist foreign policy much like that of our early days as a soverning nation.

MMmmNACHOS ~ Oh, how truly sad it is that so many mock the wisdom of the best thinkers this country ever had. Out of ignorance of history, or fear of opposing "The Man," far too many otherwise enlightened people fall into lockstep with whatever our Government wants to do with our money or in our name. Oh, it is so much easier to agree than disagree with "The Man." We have truly become "...the land of the obediant, and the home of the cowards."

Yet, to be honest, the only thing that has really changed in this country in the last two centuries is that our economy is no longer based on agriculture; but rather on industry, and that industry has lead to advanced technology and mass production. Ironically, the founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson in particular, also warned about the perils of pursuing an industrial economy. That industry base was a massive undertaking to make. However, it comes with a price to pay. Now we are all drunk, fat, and stupid. We are hopelessly addicted to industry like a coke head is addicted to his poison. We can't quit it despite knowing how harmful it is. If we tried we would probably die. Such is the conviction of a true addict, is it not?

Very well! if you can't beat it, then join it. Adapt and learn how to live in the new paradigm. That adaption should never discount the fundamental principles this country was founded on. We should never have to surrender our way of life in order to live. There is no way that basic principles on how to live that were sound two hundred years ago could now be obsolete. These are universal principles that are as valid today as they were two hundred years ago; and, even as far back in time as the ages of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle. After all, these weren't all the ideas of the founding fathers you know. These are universal truths handed down through the ages. How arrogant can we be when we say these truths are no longer true? The present is but a speck of dust on the mountaintop of eternity. Universal truth will remain long after the present fades into history. We will be remembered as the generation who lost its way through apathy, ignorance and cognitive dissonance. Hopefully, our bad example will at least serve a valuable lesson to future generations and in the future our mistakes will be avoided.

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