Zimmerman will be gifted a new gun!
By Thom Hartmann A...
An Ohio gun group, The Buckeye Firearms Foundation, says, "We’re buying Zimmerman a new gun." Yes - you heard me right! This group is asking for donations to “provide [Trayvon Martin shooter George] Zimmerman with the funds he needs to "replace his firearm, holster, and other gear.” They are also pushing what sounds like a conspiracy theory - that Attorney General Eric Holder will use the Zimmerman trial to somehow target other gun owners.
According to them, "This move to prevent Mr. Zimmerman from claiming his property is an unacceptable abuse of power. And the threats of federal charges on civil rights grounds is little more than blatant pandering for political gain. Moreover, based on statements he and others have made recently, Holder hopes to use this as the first step toward renewing this administration’s attack on gun rights. . . . George Zimmerman has every right to get his property back.
And if Eric Holder chooses to deny Mr. Zimmerman that right, Buckeye Firearms Foundation will remedy the matter by purchasing a NEW FIREARM for him, including a holster, flashlight, and any other gear he wants." It appears this group would like Zimmerman armed right away, just in case he needs to "stand his ground" again.
Comments
#2
Thom says this about the Ohio group, "The Buckeye Firearms Foundation"Quote Thom Hartmann:They are also pushing what sounds like a conspiracy theory - that Attorney General Eric Holder will use the Zimmerman trial to somehow target other gun owners.
This whole story is a conspiracy. The Buckeye Firearms Foundation certainly is a part of it. So is anyone else who helps promote this instigator of racial discord.
#3
This is the arrogance of UP YOURS to all the people in the country who think killing an kid doing no wrong is okay, if you have a gun. This is confirmation that these people have no principles and are a composite of cowardice acting with the mob mentality giving them faux courage. This law can return US to the days when it was legal to duel. After all, if YOU LOOK DIFFERENT and some1 feels threatened they can shoot you. If you hav a gun, then you can SYG and shoot back. The best gun wins.
There is a lot to look forward to with the upcoming trial of the FL man who killed a black teen who was stiing in an SUV in a parking lot listening to music with his friends. The White man shot into the SUV killing the teen and then told police they had a gun. Police found no gun, they arrested him.
#4
This case shows we haven't come far enough. As deplorable as it all is, I think it should encourage an honest discussion of race in this country. What you think and what African Americans believe (especially black males) are very different. Did you hear President Obama? That was heartfelt from a man who has experienced this kind of discrimination. You can argue the "facts" all you want, but this kind of incident is a pervasive indicator of where this country still stands on race.
This country has had hundreds of years of unrelenting bigotry, beginning in the 1600s when slave traders first started bring Africans here. It was certainly (along with violence and threat of violence) what kept the slaves under control. When slavery ended, white people had to come up with new ways of keeping control--and that they did. Ku Klux Klan, lynchings, death for the slightest infractions (or no infractions at all). Emmet Till is still one of the most horrifying examples. So is the bombing of the Birmingham church that killed 4 young girls. In Minnesota, 3 blacks who had been working for a circus were lynched in the 1930s because a white girl said they had raped her. After they were hung, and dead, she confessed she lied. Do you think 3 young white men would have been taken out of the jail and lynched on the basis of her story?
I think it's time we started honestly looking at these stories. They are endless. They served to keep everyone in line, out of fear. Now we have privately run prisons that make money by having more prisoners. A big percentage are black. Do you wonder why? No, it's not that they commit more crime. Whites use drugs in about equal proportion to blacks--maybe a little more--but are arrested and convicted at much much higher rates. Why is that?
#5
Technically, if kept under investigation by the US Dept of Justice, an investigation that could be dragged out for who knows how long, Zimmerman could be under FBI watch for a very long time.
#6
Zimmerman needs a gun, you have got to be kidding. He is naturally paranoid thinking that some stranger is out to get him. Maybe that is because of the hundreds of death threats he has received. Now he may be thinking that anyone who recognizes him may be "hunting" him. He may have to stand his ground everyday. It is amazing that Tea Party Gun Enthusiasts love the United States Constitution, especiallythe 2nd and 10th amendment, however they hate the people elected to serve in government. The government is elected by the majority is a fair election, but because the people who are elected have too much pigment, they believe they have "lost" their country. I would feel better excet they seem not to have studied the entire Constitution they say they love. If they study the Constsitution they would see the error of their ways. What a country we have.
#7
Draw the sword, die by the sword.
#8
Quote Hartmann: They are also pushing what sounds like a conspiracy theory...
Oooooh! A "conspiracy theory"! Not one of those! Because you call something a "conspiracy theory" that surely will color it black, evil, or idiotic won't it?
So, let's mention (again) the conspiracy theories about 9/11. Which "conspiracy theory" do you all believe is true...the ones that say that tall buildings don't free fall unless the supporting structure is instantly removed by some explosive charges or the one that our government tells us is true...the "official conspiracy theory"...that says that we needn't look behind the curtain to see the nano-thermite evidence...just believe them?
So you think that the idea "that Attorney General Eric Holder will use the Zimmerman trial to somehow target other gun owners." is just another "conspiracy theory"? I'd say that this government will take advantage of anything that will leverage a situation in the direction it wants to go..including using the Zimmerman nut case...to take away our guns. After all, several three letter government agencies have already used patsies, actually set them up, cajoled them into committing illegalities (terrorist acts), provided them with the hardware to commit those acts, and in some cases (as in the case of 9/11), actually carried them out. All in the name of mind-raping the masses of US citizens, not to mention the rest of it's victims in the rest of the world.
#9
Palindromedary ~ The very words "conspiracy theories" sound to me like, "we have no reason to believe it was foul play." They go hand in hand and are always the first thing thrown out whenever there is a conspiracy and there is foul play. Didn't Bush warn the media about feeding a frenzy of conspiracy theories after 9/11. I certainly remember those words. It was the first time it had occurred to me. Obviously it occurred to Bush immediately. I wonder why....?
#10
too bad we cant start a collection and buy those idiots new brains
#11
too bad we cant start a collection and buy those idiots new brains
#12
This is quite predictable SOME guns owners are truly irresponsible. They make reasonable gun owners look bad. Gun lobbyists -NRA are ALL about making money NOT safety ! The Stand Your Ground law is dangerous Anyone can say they felt threatened then shoot someone. Like 'Citizens United ' this law must GO .
#13
NO one is trying to take away guns from law abiding persons. Surely Not Obama No one can account for fringe groups on either side . Honest people are just trying to make sure guns do not fall into wrong hands or to mentally sick folks . .US already has more guns per capita than any country !
#14
Hate crime is a category used to descibe bias-motivated violence on the basis of certain personal characteristics such as skin color. This would make Buckeye an accessory to Zimmerman's next hate crime if they actually supply him with the murder weapon.
#15
YAWWWWWN! How how passé.
Boy I sure do wish "Corporate Personhood" could steel the spot lite...Excite the masses into "getting involved" and "demanding better" from their government.
Someone wake me up when the real revolution begins!
Oh and DANNEMARC thank you for the response to the post I put up today on yesterdays thread. If you feel my post and your response is worth reposting here on todays thread, please do.
It is my opinion that even though "small" victories towards Justice and Equality are good for morale, we will never fully regain a Democratic System that is Of For and By the People until Corporations no longer have a voice (financle influence) within our Governement. We MUST make this our TOP PRIORITY for it affects ALL Americans today and into our country's future.
Cheers
#16
I saw a broadcast of what the judge told Zimmerman once the verdict was in and the case was over. She said point blank that his gun would be returned. That seemed to be a statement of fact. I don't know where people are getting the idea otherwise, but perhaps they're just looking for something to be defensive about. Some of these gun nuts have a persecution complex, regardless of the facts.
#17
I think they have brains. There's just something wrong with the way the synapses are, um, "firing".
#18
It's all them GMO's they keep eating. But I agree. Their leaders, the GOP, are so dummed down, how can those they lead be any sharper?
#19
Suze, you must have missed the part after the trial when Eric Holder decided to inform the Police to NOT return his weapon to him because they will need it in their investigation. Holder is looking to charge Zimmerman under the federal Hate Crimes Act. He trumps what the judge has said.
#20
They will give hoods, torches, and rope back to the kkk.
#21
DAnneMarc: It's notable how people can be manipulated by "the authorities" by manipulating the coloration of various words or phrases....like "conspiracy theory". There really are real conspiracies... and adding "theory" to that term doesn't necessarily dismiss it as being invalid. There are many "theories" that, after having amassed sufficient data to support the hypothesis, becomes a fact. One, at least, that works better than any others until a better one is "proven" to be more valid.
There are better conspiracy theories than the official government conspiracy theory. And those better theories are more in align with scientific evidence than the official government conspiracy theory. Like, buildings don't collapse at near free-fall speed unless the supporting structures are removed first..like with explosives. The supporting structures, ie: those below where the planes hit, were intact and should have presented enough of a resistance to near free-fall speed to have prevented near free-fall speed.
The planes hit on one side of the buildings conceivably weakening, mostly, the side the planes hit. Yet, the buildings didn't topple over in that direction...they came straight down. Those buildings, along with building 7 (which was not even hit by a plane) came straight down in their footprints at near free-fall speed which is the way they would have come down during a normal demolition. The WTC buildings were demolished using explosives and there is scientific evidence to support that. The visual evidence of squibs blowing out of the windows preceding the collapse indicating explosive charges removing the supporting structures, the dust sample evidence of nano-thermite chips, chemical fingerprints of thermitic reactions, and molten iron microspheres and the extreme temperatures needed to create the microspheres, the pulverization of all the concrete into dust, the photos of vertical support beams cut at the same angle as during a normal demolition, the chemical analysis of the corrosion of the surface of nearby vehicles pointing to a thermitic reaction, first-responder evidence testifying about hearing multiple explosions, all points to demolition. And demolition points a finger at an insider job.
#22
My mom, a first grade teacher for 46 years used to advise parents with unruly children: Assess if their child was hurting someone or hurting themselves. If not, then ignore the child's learnt bad behavior whether actions or curse words for a period of 2 weeks with silence and lack of acknowledgement. They will move on if not impressing anyone.
In dealing with reichwingers, white trash, fascists, racists and down right hateful republicans to their face, the word and action is 'avoid' interaction, avoid service, avoid acknowledgement, avoid answering – just walk away. The Asian Death really bothers them: you've killed them spiritually, they are not there. Ostrasizing silence towards these types offers the best tool.
Watch the bully's eyes. They always shift their eyes which means they are seeking idolized approval. Very insecure.
Move on.
#23
It appears that the KKK is yet still alive in Ohio.
Also the state where gang members can obtain brand-new weapons and ammo stolen from train shipments, which gun manufactures can write-off as a loss, and which go unreported or under-reported to law enforcement. What do the gun makers care who gets their guns? As long as they get their MONEY.
#24
The Black Panthers have put a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman and Eric refuses to investigate this as a hate crime.
#25
Just a couple of points.
1. Zimmerman was found not guilty.
2. This fire arms company is getting nation wide advertising for less than $1,000. Do the math.
Obama will do anything so long as he does not have to do his job and handle Americas real problems.
His speech last Friday where he called white people racist for protecting themselves against black punks will go down in History as one of the most ignorant. I never thought we would ever have another President dumber than Bush. We did not have to wait long.
Eric holder will leave his job a very wealthy man. He is another disgrace.
#26
Thom Hartmann ~ If you're going to start running a topic every time some redneck or group of rednecks do or say something stupid your show is going to be doomed to the annals of tabloidism. Why lower yourself to the least common denominator? These idiots are nothing new in society. Fortunately, for us all, these groups are on the endangered species list. They certaily don't represent white people, or any other 'normal' group in society. They are special, indeed. Why do you think they had to go to Ohio to find this bunch of losers? No one that stupid in Florida or anywhere closer to Florida? No one in Tennesse, Kentucky, Georgia, Arkansas, Alabama, North or South Carolina? Thats the countries bread basket of rednecks. That says something positive right there! You of all people should know that paying attention to bad behavior only encourages it. Thanks for being a part of the problem!
#27
Quote MMmmNACHOS:Oh and DANNEMARC thank you for the response to the post I put up today on yesterdays thread. If you feel my post and your response is worth reposting here on todays thread, please do.
MMmmNACHOS ~ As you wish....
Quote MMmmNACHOS:The United States of America could easily become Champions of a social helath insurance system...How, you ask??? Well we already have a tax system inplace we just need to reform how that money is spent. I am all for large budget cuts to the Military, Deffence Dept, and all Federal bureaus such as, the FBI, CIA, NSA, etc. Also cut funding to 30 year failed War on Drugs act. And last but not least, Stop spending tax payers money on proping up arbitrary foreign governments.Well said! I couldn't agree more! I thought it deserved restating!
Quote MMmmNACHOS:These are two of America's Founding Fathers, those who helped draft and sign the Declaration of Independence. Sadly though we have spent the past 113 years underminding this sensible advice. And we are liveing first hand the consequences. But even if the founding fathers advice is "acknowledged" at all it is quicly dismissed on the grounds that we do not live in their times! Which is a very hackneyed argument since today's more complex world cries out for the moral clarity of a noninterventionalist foreign policy much like that of our early days as a soverning nation.
MMmmNACHOS ~ Oh, how truly sad it is that so many mock the wisdom of the best thinkers this country ever had. Out of ignorance of history, or fear of opposing "The Man," far too many otherwise enlightened people fall into lockstep with whatever our Government wants to do with our money or in our name. Oh, it is so much easier to agree than disagree with "The Man." We have truly become "...the land of the obediant, and the home of the cowards."
Yet, to be honest, the only thing that has really changed in this country in the last two centuries is that our economy is no longer based on agriculture; but rather on industry, and that industry has lead to advanced technology and mass production. Ironically, the founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson in particular, also warned about the perils of pursuing an industrial economy. That industry base was a massive undertaking to make. However, it comes with a price to pay. Now we are all drunk, fat, and stupid. We are hopelessly addicted to industry like a coke head is addicted to his poison. We can't quit it despite knowing how harmful it is. If we tried we would probably die. Such is the conviction of a true addict, is it not?
Very well! if you can't beat it, then join it. Adapt and learn how to live in the new paradigm. That adaption should never discount the fundamental principles this country was founded on. We should never have to surrender our way of life in order to live. There is no way that basic principles on how to live that were sound two hundred years ago could now be obsolete. These are universal principles that are as valid today as they were two hundred years ago; and, even as far back in time as the ages of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle. After all, these weren't all the ideas of the founding fathers you know. These are universal truths handed down through the ages. How arrogant can we be when we say these truths are no longer true? The present is but a speck of dust on the mountaintop of eternity. Universal truth will remain long after the present fades into history. We will be remembered as the generation who lost its way through apathy, ignorance and cognitive dissonance. Hopefully, our bad example will at least serve a valuable lesson to future generations and in the future our mistakes will be avoided.
#28
Palindromedary ~ You are preaching to the choir. No news here. Those towers were demolished and those people murdered by insiders. The only question is who? Like I mentioned to Kend friday concerning how Reagan got elected. It was Bush Sr. who struck a deal with Iran to hold the hostages till after the election. It was also the Bush family who orchestrated the "fuel shortage" of the late seventies to ruin Carter's credibility. Lets face it, manipulating terrorists for political gain is nothing new to this family. Was it not GW Bush who came out immediately after 9/11 and warned the media not to give in to crazy "conspiracy" theories. Why even say such a thing unless you know the truth is a conspiracy?
Not that any of this can be proved; although, don't you think it very strange that we have never had to sanction gas again in this country since that first election of Ronald Wilson (666) Reagan? Thats an endless supply for 33 years right after we were about to run out. Strange indeed! How short our memory is in this country. How little incentive we have to question our own comfort. Our fuel consumption has increased dramatically. Our freeways have been expanded and are still always jammed with traffic. Fuel however, is always sufficient to meet any demand. How convenient!
#29
Quote akunard:The Black Panthers have put a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman and Eric refuses to investigate this as a hate crime.
akunard ~ I must say my friend that at first I doubted what you said to be true; however, after a bit of research I find it to be true.
However there is a bit of misunderstanding I should point out. This is not the traditional Black Panther Party. Note, this group calls itself The New Black Panther Party. If you read the article cited you will see that they have been rejected by the official Black Panther Party because of their racist extremist views. Confusing these two groups is as much a hate crime as what The New Black Panther Party is doing. Nevertheless, thank you akunard for pointing out the fact that racism and stupidity come in all colors.
This group of crazies mirror The Buckeye Firearms Association perfectly. We should round both groups up and make them camp out together in a retreat so they will have to get along. At least that's what my teacher did in the first grade to make children get along. Both of these groups sound like they belong in the first grade.
Mikhail Muhammad, the leader of "The New Black Panthers" after announcing the bounty was asked by a reporter if he was inciting violence. His reply was, "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."
As Gandhi once said, "An eye for an eye and soon the whole world is blind."
I wonder if Mr. Mikhail Muhammad has the cognitive ability to realize the legal position he just placed himself in if someone were actually to kill Zimmerman? I wonder if "The Buckeye Firearms Association" is capable of realizing their role in murder if Zimmerman were to actually kill someone else with their gun? What a bunch of pure idiots! I just don't get how the ramblings of imbeciles can get front page attention? Doesn't anyone realize that only encourages their behavior? We really need to bring back public funding of Mental Institutions!
I think it important when we listen to such rhetoric from people like "The New Black Panthers" that we are not listening to the voice of black people. As so, when we listen to the rhetoric from people like "The Buckeye Firearms Association" we are not listening to the voice of white people. What we are really listening to in both situations is the voice of very disturbed people.
#30
ARIZONAMIKE...What about black people defending themselves against "creepy-ass-crackers"?
Oh and please enlighten me as to what you "think" "America's real problems are"?
#31
Not to sound casual, but the "New Black Panther Party" is nothing more than a bunch of ignorant loud mouth creepy-ass-n*ggers!
Its the black mans KKK.
#32
Thanks Nacho for coming out of the closet. Do you also fly the CSA flag?
D'Marc, see how this minor civil criminal case has bought to bear what is a very large divide in our ethos? And I may add, a divide that must be breached if we are as a nation to move on after what 150 years or so after that war was fought?
#33
I do not fly or salute any flag, nor do I pledge my allegience to any Lord or Government that puts profit before its people.
Cheers.
#34
Quote ArizonaMike:..protecting themselves against black punks..Zimmerman wouldn't have "had to protect himself" if he hadn't gone looking for trouble with a loaded gun. The only person here who had the right to "stand his ground" and "defend himself" was Trayvon Martin because Trayvon Martin was minding his own business when approached and challenged by Zimmerman. Zimmerman was the aggressor here... not Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman was the "punk" in this case...not Trayvon Martin.
#35
Quote DAnneMarc:Was it not GW Bush who came out immediately after 9/11 and warned the media not to give in to crazy "conspiracy" theories. Why even say such a thing unless you know the truth is a conspiracy?
Very true, DAnneMarc! Very odd, isn't it?
#36
Is it a "hate crime" to say hateful things? When does saying "socially unacceptable" things or not being "politically correct" become a crime? Just where do you draw the line? Who determines that line? If we're not there now, it looks like we are sure getting there soon. So many things are just so arbitrary and subjective. Some people get offended if you just smile at them others get offended if you complement them. Some compliments can easily get taken as sexual harassments. Some magazines have been chastised and/or lost backers for just putting photos of people on their front cover. Cooking show hosts have been blackballed (no pun intended) for admitting to have used a "socially unacceptable" or "politically incorrect" word which is causing her to lose not only her show but millions of dollars. Do we really have freedom of speech here in the US? Helen Thomas fully exercised her "freedom of speech" when she dared to ask challenging questions of a number of US Presidents. She was fired from her reporter's job for daring to say something that Israel didn't like...that the Palestinians had the right to return to their homeland...Palestine. How many people have been cowed to shut up and not challenge Israel? Certainly, not many "investigative" reporters in main stream media will ask too many questions of our government about 9/11. Thank Zod for RT-Russia Today and KPFA and Al Jazeera. Without them, we'd all be shut out of what is really happening in this world.
#37
Cheers to you PALINDROMEDARY!!!Cheers to your ability to see past the B.S of being politically correct... To understand that sometimes using socially sensitive words or phrases is necessary in order to fully express emotion and/or a point.
It has been my opinion that the majority of people and our social/class divide stems more from being "politically correct" than from not. In other words people are afraid to just say what they "actually" feel, or ask tough "unpopular" questions because it might spark a controversial debate, and/or be offensive.
#38
Quote rs allen:D'Marc, see how this minor civil criminal case has bought to bear what is a very large divide in our ethos? And I may add, a divide that must be breached if we are as a nation to move on after what 150 years or so after that war was fought?
rs allen ~ It is true that we have a way to go to get to the utopia visualized by Dr. Martin Luther King. However, we are almost there. The effort to get the rest of the way needs to be not only a social priority but a priority of the individual as well. Equality and peace will never be a public reality till it is a reality in our hearts.
As far as the effects of this minor civil case are concerned, I don't see how it proves anything. There is no large divide in our ethos. This case focuses on the worst common denominators in society. Even a small cut hurts like hell if you rub salt into it. This media story means nothing and only makes a small wound seem unbearable. Were it not for the overt media coverage this story would hold no ones attention. I'm still waiting patiently for the media outrage about the shooting murder of a 8 year old black girl in the streets here in my hometown. Nothing yet. Yet that bothers me a lot more than this Zimmerman case. I'm not sure what bothers me more, the shooting or the fact that the media has swept it under the carpet. I guess its just not divisive enough of a tragedy to be newsworthy.
#39
Quote MMmmNACHOS:Not to sound casual, but the "New Black Panther Party" is nothing more than a bunch of ignorant loud mouth creepy-ass-n*ggers!Its the black mans KKK.
MMmmNACHOS ~ I don't know if I'd go that far, but the analogy is sound. The New Black Panthers is relatively new. Until they run up a list of white lynchings I wouldn't make that link too soon. The Buckeye Firearms Association, The Tea Party, or even White neoNazis would be a much fairer comparison. Although I certainly agree that with their mentality they can certainly be considered KKK wannabes.
Isn't it strange how foolishness, ignorance and sheer stupidity come in all colors and flavors? Kind of like Skittles candy, don't you think? All the colors of the rainbow!
The good news is that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Too bad intellectuals don't make as much noise as blithering idiots!
#40
I hope you're not another one of those willfully obtuse shills we got on this site. We gotta explain to you what the president was saying?
The President aknowledged that African-Americans commit a disproportionate amount of crime in our society and that things have gotten better and keep getting better with regards to racism in our society but he wanted you to know how it is for innocent blacks always being suspected and accused (and often arrested, roughed up and sometimes even convicted) just because they are black. It is not at all uncommon for black folks to be stalked by one or more weird "crackers" (a southern black term that, in the strictest traditional sense, means racist white, segregationist or what), some KKK or other vigilante racist when walking through a white neighborhood and not at all unrealistic to think they could lose their livess to an encounter with some such types.
#41
An odd twist! Has any heard the news? George Zimmerman just saved a family from an overturned SUV. Now he's a hero! What a crazy world. Who's going to murder a hero?
#42
Quote Mark Saulys:I hope you're not another one of those willfully obtuse shills we got on this site. We gotta explain to you what the president was saying?
Mark Saulys ~ "Willfully obtuse shills" is an accurate description. However, if I understand you correctly the proper term you are looking for is "INTERNET TROLLS". Please check out this description and correct me if I'm wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
Here is the definition of the term in a nutshell! (pardon the pun)Quote Wikipedia: "Trolls aspire to violence, to the level of trouble they can cause in an environment. They want it to kick off. They want to promote antipathetic emotions of disgust and outrage, which morbidly gives them a sense of pleasure."[30]
In my opinion, the best way to discourage this behavior is to constantly use the correct term, as well as, to ignore these individuals. Without confrontation they tend to go away--henceforth the term, "Don't feed the Trolls."
#43
Hey everybody watch this movie from the 70's. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072822/ Awfully familiar.
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