The flame for justice remains...

On Wednesday, fifty years after Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. told the world about his dream, our nation's first African-American president spoke from the very same steps of the Lincoln Memorial. President Obama spoke to a crowd of thousands, who marched on the National Mall to commemorate Dr. King's historic speech. In recognition of how far the fight for equality has come, President Obama said, “To dismiss the magnitude of this progress, to suggest, as some sometimes do, that little has changed, that dishonors the courage, the sacrifice of those who paid the price to march in those years.”

However, he also acknowledged how far we still have to go in the fight towards equality. He said, “we would dishonor those heroes as well, to suggest that the work of this nation is somehow complete.” The President, along with other civil rights leaders who spoke at the event, said that fighting for voting rights, combating unemployment, and reducing gun violence are still important issues in 2013. The “Let Freedom Ring and Call to Action” ceremony took place to honor the influential life and work of Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., as well as the millions who fought for civil rights in our nation.

President Obama explained the fight continues, “not just for African Americans, but for women and Latinos, Asians and Native Americans, for Catholics, Jews and Muslims, for gays, [and] for Americans with disabilities.” He said, “We might not face the same dangers of 1963, but the fierce urgency of now remains. We may never duplicate the swelling crowds and dazzling procession of that day so long ago – no one can match King's brilliance – but the same flame that lit the hearts of all who are willing to take a first step for justice, I know that flame remains.”

Comments

Carson L's picture
Carson L 8 years 2 weeks ago
#1

Thank you Barack Obama. For what it's worth; from all that I am, have ever endured, and aspire to be, Thank you.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#2

Reprinted from yesterday's blog in response to Flopot's comment on whether or not we should strike Syria. Flopot said no! I said:

Flopot ~ I'd go one step further--we need international involvement. This is a job for the UN not the US. Our Congress has nothing more to say in this matter than our President. We are a part of the international community not it's representative. We, the United States of America, count for one vote in the UN. That is the only say we have in this matter. Only through UN investigation, consensus, and action can we even begin to formulate a legitimate reason to use any force. Only through a majority vote of the UN do we have the blessing of the international community.

Sanctions and embargos work better than any direct military force and does not directly kill anyone. The UN has the power to authorize military blockades of supplies, such as weapons and artillery; and even goods such as industrial material, finance, and oil. That is where the focus should be made in this matter, and all similar foreign diplomatic humanitarian issues. Direct military intervention is a blatant act of fascism--even as a last resort after every other alternative is exhausted. As a first resort it is nothing more than unrestrained imperialistic totalitarian tyranny.

ginico55's picture
ginico55 8 years 2 weeks ago
#3

We lived in Huntsville, AL in 1960, 100 miles away from Birmingham - we were there when the church was bombed. Huntsville at that time was "different" because so many people were moving in from all over the country for the development of the Saturn rocket to put the man on the moon! But that didn't shield us from ALL of the discrimination that was going on down there. We witnessed the separate drinking fountains and the poverty that the black people lived in. No story tells it more than the HELP book and movie! I remember the church bombing when the four little girls were killed, the march on Selma. George Wallace standing i the school door to prevent the blacks from entering. Unfortunately, the discrimination is still alive and well in the South - I think the embers were fired up by the right when President Obama was elected. I have witnessed people that I would never suspect of being racist . . . racist. The public schools in Alabama have been neglected because "that's where all the colored go" . . . the white people now have "private" schools to attend. The Congressional members are racist and it's very sad!

Originally from Ohio, I attended segregated schools from day one, so I learned to respect people of color early on. I guess I led a sheltered life because I knew little about gay people - I learned a lot while attending cosmetology school and became friends with a few. Later in life, God gave me a gay daughter . . . so I guess that in His way, he primed me to know that we are ALL His children and to respect everyone.

Now in my twilight years, I fear for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, but I try my best to overcome that fear and trust that God will show us a way to come together in this world.

God Bless President Obama for his foresight - I pray that there will be more understanding of and for him from the American people!

ginico55's picture
ginico55 8 years 2 weeks ago
#4

Absolutely right! We have to stop being an "empire" and join together with the rest of the world to resolve problems. WE cannot and should not be intervening into everything. This is a sectarian war - a war between the two muslim factions. We should stay out of it except for humanitarian aid to the surrounding countries who are caring for those who have fled. Let the United Nations handle and if those countries in the United Nations who are allies to Syria refuse to do anything if the chemicals continue to be used, then it is egg on THEIR faces, not ours.

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 8 years 2 weeks ago
#5

REEEEEALYYYYY...You want to thank a snake tongue corporate puppet for who you are, and for your future? You think Obama is to thank for that?
I'm not sure I can accept your compliment from yesterdays thread. Not becasue of a "difference of opinion", more because you make judgments based on lip service rather than a person's actions.

obama may be able to give a good speach but his actions are what define him.

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 8 years 2 weeks ago
#6

Hey DanneMarc...What am I copped liver? Your not avoiding eloborating on my angle to the issues discussed over the past few days are you? I mean I'm not crying over it but usually you have something to add.

cheers

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#7

To today's topic I would add... Racism is a two way street. It takes two to tango. Racism begins and ends in each and every one of us. We have total control over racism. It is one thing to be a racist. It is another thing to not be a racist. To embody the dream of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is another thing altogether...

I say to you, that to react to racism is worse than racism itself. Responding to racism in kind is to give validation to the credibility of racism. Here is the patients taught by Dr. Martin Luther King. This patients, discipline and dedication to equality is the responsibility of every individual in the world. Only through complete denial of racism can racism cease to exist.

In these troubled times my brothers, remember--Reaction only encourages the behavior, your response dictates the future. Banish racism from your consciousness and banish racism from the face of the world. Show by your example and your example will become the benchmark. The meek will inherit the Earth and the patient will inherit eternity.

Racism begins and ends in the hearts of each of us. Let us all have the strength, courage, devotion, and conviction of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. that we may someday find him on the other side of the mountain of which he spoke so eloquently--united as a people, as a part of his beautiful dream.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#8

MMmmNACHOS ~ Respectfully I've done my best to look at everything everyone has said. But in real life, I've been working the last two days and there have been over 50 posts since the Syria topic appeared and there will probably be more today. Frankly, I haven't disagreed with anything that I haven't already commented on--except the inane comments and I don't consider you in that category. If there is an issue youve pointed out you think I might want to comment on please mention it again here.

Oh, wait. Was it the "Nigger" comment? Well, I think I just commented on that. Do I need to say more? Everything else you said I agree with. OK?

Mike-C's picture
Mike-C 8 years 2 weeks ago
#9

Those who made that march and so many other marches in the fight for racial equality were very, very brave people. I was a teenager then and, like ginico55’s “we lived in Huntsville” post above, I can easily recall the horrible, un-Christian words and deeds that plagued the black citizens in that era. I, too, lived in the south. I can still see the TV news showing the fire hose spraying and street beatings that those courageous black men and women endured in their marches.

Now, as I look back and see the progress, I smile and think -- Mr. King, you did it, you won. You led protests in a peaceful; tolerant way as you demanded rightful change. As a result, we are different today, we are a better people.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#10

I'm sorry. The show today demonstrates such short sidedness that I have to remove myself. Dr. Mike Newcomb seems so concerned that only the USA is able to judge morality in the world that I find myself nauseous of the outcome of his diatribe. Good luck Mr. Newcomb with your USA better than thou nonsense. I chose to bail. Good bye!!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#11

This January 24th, 2013 post on the cyberwarenews.info web site from a hacker who hacked into a British company's (BritAm Defense) servers and got some really interesting information (also internal emails--sounds like the Stratfor email hack) that seems to indicate that the current situation in Syria was actually a plot by the US to use chemical weapons against civilians in Syria and blame it on Al-Assad as a pretext for invasion by the US.

There will be references to a web site called pastebin.com saying that a lot of these documents show all of this....from all those link sites anyway. But, the contents has been removed from Pastebin. Do a Pastebin search on BritAm or Syria and all the links that are supposed to contain documents are all deleted if you go to those links.


Britam Defence is British private military company, operates mainly in the Middle East. It killed Arabs in Iraq and plans to invade in Iran and Syria.
Look through leaked documents carefully. CW means chemical weapon, g-shell is short for a gas shell I guess.
----
Phil

We’ve got a new offer. It’s about Syria again. Qataris propose an attractive deal and swear that the idea is approved by Washington.
We’ll have to deliver a CW to Homs, a Soviet origin g-shell from Libya similar to those that Assad should have.
They want us to deploy our Ukrainian personnel that should speak Russian and make a video record.
Frankly, I don’t think it’s a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous. Your opinion?

Kind regards

David


----

http://www.cyberwarnews.info/2013/01/24/britam-defence-hacked-confidenti...
-----------------------------------------
Heres an interesting blog site: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=30406.0

http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-backed-plan-to-launch-chemical-weapon-at...

Syria: U.S. Aided Terrorists in Chemical Attack, Europe Next
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pdomq8iaZs

http://www.storyleak.com/

So, are we still at DEFCON 3 or has it been increased to DEFCON 4 yet?

Interesting info on Hastings and the Syria chemical attack here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezEP33y1RvA
----------------------------------------
Dennis Kucinich says attack on Syria would make U.S. "al Qaida's air force"

Kucinich also "raised doubts" about claims the Syrian military - which is controlled by Assad - killed hundreds of people with chemical weapons last week. He accused the Obama administration of “rushing” into a potential “World War Three” based on questionable evidence.

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2013/08/dennis_kucinich_says_att...

I wonder what Edward Snowden knows about all of this???

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#12

Palindromedary ~ Thank you very much! You have supported the conclusion that I and many have already suspected. I must retire now; but, please accept my gratitude for you diligence. You the MAN!! Please have a great weekend my friend!!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#13

Thank you DAnneMarc! Very much appreciated. I had to, since my last posts from yesterday (or maybe it was the day before that?), go on a little trip about 600 miles round trip all in one day...got back at about 3:00am this morning so I am also very tired.

By the way, here is another quote from a more recent article from The New American web site:

Quote The New American:.... evidence suggesting that the foreign-funded-and-trained rebels may have perpetrated the attack continues to mount. Writing in WND, author and respected analyst Jerome Corsi compiled a series of videos from Middle Eastern sources that show opposition fighters involved in chemical weapons attacks.

One of the videos, for example, shows “Free Syrian Army” forces launching a Sarin gas attack on a village. Another appears to record “rebels” loading a canister of nerve gas on a rocket. A third, recorded from Syrian television, shows a rebel arsenal of what appears to be Saudi-made chemical weapons seized by government forces. More evidence cited in the report came from a recorded phone conversation between a rebel terrorist and a Saudi financier, who discussed past and future use of chemical weapons by opposition forces.

Examining recent history and events may also yield some clues as to who could have been responsible for the attack, according to analysts. Consider, for example, the numerous atrocities — mass murder of civilians, for example — perpetrated by rebels but blamed on the Assad regime. As The New American has documented extensively, there have been more than a few confirmed instances of opposition forces staging brutal attacks and blaming the carnage on the Syrian dictatorship before the truth eventually emerged. After the last chemical weapons attack blamed on Assad, UN investigators concluded that it was likely the work of rebel forces. Videos have also emerged apparently showing “rebels” testing chemical weapons on animals.

Among the most explosive allegations this year were documents supposedly obtained by hackers claiming that the Obama administration had previously approved a chemical weapons false-flag attack in Syria to be blamed on the regime. According to the ANI news wire, an alleged e-mail exchange between two senior officials at British-based contractor Britam Defence documented a scheme to have Sunni Arab regimes “fund rebel forces in Syria to use chemical weapons.” The plan for a false-flag attack to be blamed on Assad was allegedly “approved by Washington.” The company denied the allegations and successfully sued a leading British paper that published them, but some analysts were not convinced by the denials and continue citing the alleged e-mails.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/asia/item/16419-doubts-grow-abo...
---------------------------------

Quote jerome corsi web site:
With the assistance of former PLO member and native Arabic-speaker Walid Shoebat, WND has assembled evidence from various Middle Eastern sources that cast doubt on Obama administration claims the Assad government is responsible for last week’s attack.

On Aug. 23, LiveLeak.com hosted an audio recording of a phone call broadcast on Syrian TV between a terrorist affiliated with the rebel civilian militia “Shuhada al-Bayada Battalion” in Homs, Syria, and his Saudi Arabian boss, identified as “Abulbasit.” The phone call indicates rebel-affiliated terrorists in Syria, not the Assad government, launched the chemical weapons attack in Deir Ballba in the Homs, Syria, countryside.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/video-shows-rebels-launching-gas-attack-in-sy...

----------------------

Document that shows that Britam Defence LTD exists and that they have done business with Halliburton.

http://i50.tinypic.com/21ad4k9.png

Another discussion from back in January of this year about the leaked documents as viewed by witnesses who read those documents before they were deleted from pastebin.com.

http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1242490

http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/asia/item/16419-doubts-grow-abo...

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 8 years 2 weeks ago
#14

More than any specific post, DAM, I mainly was just expressing that I noticed you had not engaged any of my post in a while and was feeling a bit left out of the semi-intellagent banter and mix.
Two things I like about this blog; Most of the people that post on Thom's Blog have something more than just spoon fed opinions. It's good to know that there are still some that are capable of critical thinking...using that gray matter between their ears, as well as the opposing and/or favorable replys to eachother that insights banter and debate.
In other words I post not just to "hear" myself, but to hear what others have to say.

namasté

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#15

MMmmNachos: Sorry, MMmmNachos, I do try to read what everyone has to say and often agree with much of what you all have to say..eg: your #6. I got a bit of a giggle out of that one. I had been on a little trip that took me away from the keyboard just recently and that trip left me a bit tired..especially after doing some of the above information gathering on the new false flag operation the US/Britain/Israel/Saudi Arabia/Al Qaida has most likely carried out in Syria in order to justify attacking them like we did Iraq. Looks like the same Modus Operandi (MO) is being used as was used with Iraq..false flag tragedies (like 9/11) and lies told to scare the people to support invading Syria this time. Thank goodness that people have wised up and doubted the propaganda and will not fall for it again.

I was very happy to hear that Britain's Parliament rejected supporting the US on this one. No Poodle lap dog this time! Let's hear it for the Brits!!! Yay!!! I think Obama is looking more and more hawkish, and alone, especially since he has indicated that if no one will help..he'll just do the invasion himself. Yeah, by himself...give the blowhard murdering war criminal a battle axe and ship his @$$ over there to tough it out against Al Assad. Send the generals and not the troops..better yet..send the blowhard politicians. I bet the US will end up murdering many more civilians than their false flag chemical operation did.

Once I got back from my trip, I watched a little news on CNN and got a few giggles out of how they were now going all out to further scare the American public about the Hitlerian "evil menace" in Syria who is threatening retaliation...like massive hacking of internet web sites by "an army of hackers". The banksters will probably take this opportunity to wipe out our bank accounts and claim that some Syrian hackers did it.

Red banners flying across the bottom of the TV screen announced that our banks and dams and electrical grids might all be at risk from an army of Syrian hackers...oh my. I thought I was watching FOX NEWS and not CNN..but no...it was CNN. Lions and tigers and bears, oh my! If I only had a heart! If I only had a brain! Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore! ;-O

Yes, there may very well come a day when blow back could very well be such a bitch that it will make these Ivy League educated dandies ( or those who are dumber than $h!t but who just inherited all their wealth) who rule the roost (the 1%) and those who run our government wet their pants. We'll all be wetting our pants! That'll sure take the bravado and testosterone out of all those American Jingoes!

Chemical weapons, biological weapons, suitcase nukes! And taking away our fingernail clippers and babies bottle formulas at the airports, before or after they use their porno scanners on us or grope our semi naked bodies will just not matter anymore.

We'll all be dying in the streets, in the malls, in our homes from VX nerve gas or a cocktail of biological death or radiating from nukes going off in our cities that our illustrious Homeland Insecurity failed to detect.

The whole thing starts when one country tries to bully other countries out of their natural resources or tries to impose their religion or type of government (ie: meddling) on other countries. The many civilian deaths that inevitably ensues amplifies the hatreds and fosters their will to pay back the aggressors for the crimes committed against them.

There is just no way that the United States can expect to prevent some kind of attack in the future. All of the human traffic and movement of materials in and out of our airports and harbors will eventually let slip some kind of WMD into our country one day. In fact, it may already have happened... lying in wait to be triggered in the event of yet another aggression the US tries against another country. The US needs to be way more kinder to other countries and try not to be such a meddling bully and thief. And especially, stop mass murdering civilians.

Yes, I know I type too much...sorry! I just get worked up over these things. Guess I should get back to meditating using my hemi-sync CDs. Ooouuummmmmmmm!!!! That's better!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#16

MMnnachos: Well, I guess I need to get more sleep...I thought you were referring to me in #15 when you referred to DAM...Somehow, I thought that was me...I don't know how I got Palindromedary out of DAM.. clearly, you were referring to DAnneMarc.

Craig Bush's picture
Craig Bush 8 years 2 weeks ago
#17

Economic justice will come with renewed investment in jobs by rebuilding America. This can happen by ending the rule of the obstructionist republicans. The blue states will have to redraw district lines the way the red states did. Tit for tat. Institute a 4 day work week three day alternate shift with a liveable wage. A job for everyone. End cannabis prohibition. Empty the prisons for cannabis violations.

Marvin Gaye said it profoundly in his song What Going On: "Who are they to judge us simply for our hair is long"? Prejudice and bigotry clings on very much today. We spend billions to look pretty while thousands suffer from lack of health care. Seniors too old to find work, but not old enough for social security, hide in the woods afraid of being tazed for sleeping. The bread distributions for the grey bears are getting longer. There is a long road for change ahead. We need a new economic bill of rights.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#18

MMmmNachos ~ I'm sorry if I've been ignoring you. This week has been hectic. In my profession I have to earn Monday off; and, I do want Monday off. Unfortunately, the topics recently have been so heated that there are few people--if any--that I disagree with. I can only add my two cents here and there. Keeping up with the posts is the best I can hope for; especially since it appears we are all on the same page about these topics.

Palindromedary ~ As usual you are a fountain of enlightenment. That last post about documents supporting Syrian rebels with support from Washington I found quite disturbing and shocking. Not particularly surprising--just disturbing and shocking. My worst fears and suspicions actualized.

Personally I am not surprised that the US electronic propaganda machine is trying to spin this into another middle east "Boogie Man" spectacle. If Washington can pull the strings of Thom Hartmann than certainly they can control CNN as well. Like I said before, we never see victims of US attacks or US serviceman bodies on TV. But when our "Boogie Man" kills, those corpses are flashed repeatedly over and over and over and over at nauseum. WE MUST BELIEVE THAT ONLY THE POLITICALLY CORRECT "BOOGIE MAN" KILLS INNOCENT CIVILIANS. WE ARE SO MUCH BETTER THAN THAT. (Now repeat that after me 100 times or until you believe it.) SOS--Same Old $h!tt

I certainly hope that you are right and that people are starting to wake up from this incredible nightmare of deceit on the part of Washington, the Pentagon, and our "Intelligence" community. Time will tell. If this blog demonstrates anything it is that you are probably correct in that assumption.

Meantime, please keep the revelations coming--no matter how shocking they may be. Your contributions are most appreciated. Thanks again!!!! ;-)

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#19

I'm confused!

So far about 1,400 people killed in a civil war in Syria from "chemical" weapons.

So far anywhere from 110,600 to 1,033,000 Iraqis killed by the USA in an outright illegal war with "conventional" weapons based on false US "Intelligence" and greed.

Oh, I'm sorry--who is the Bad Guy again?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/21/syria-conflcit-chemical-weapons-hundreds-killed

By these standards, the murderers in Syria are the Bad Guy because they can't kill as many innocent civilians as the USA can.

BTW "Dr." Newcomb... You should be ashamed of yourself, Sir. You are not that stupid!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#20
A brief history lesson of one of the legacies of President Ronald Wilson (666) Reagan

Quote Wikipedia:The contras (some references use the capitalized form, "Contras") is a label given to the various rebel groups opposing the Sandinista Junta of National Reconstructiongovernment in Nicaragua that were active from 1979 through to the early 1990s. Among the separate contra groups, the Nicaraguan Democratic Force (FDN) emerged as the largest by far. In 1987, virtually all contra organizations were united, at least nominally, into the Nicaraguan Resistance.

From an early stage, the rebels received decisive financial and military support from the U.S. government, initially supplemented by the Argentine dictatorship of the time. After U.S. support was banned by Congress, the Reagan administration covertly continued contra aid.

The term "contra" comes from the Spanish contra, which means against but in this case is short for la contrarrevolución, in English "the counter-revolution". Some rebels disliked being called contras, feeling that it defined their cause only in negative terms, or implied a desire to restore the old order. Rebel fighters usually referred to themselves ascomandos ("commandos"); peasant sympathizers also called the rebels los primos ("the cousins"). From the mid-1980s, as the Reagan administration and the rebels sought to portray the movement as the "democratic resistance", members started describing themselves as la resistencia.

During the war against the Sandinista government, the contras carried out many human rights violations, and evidence suggests that these were systematically committed as an element of warfare strategy. Contra supporters often tried to downplay these violations, or countered that the Sandinista government carried out much more. In particular, the Reagan administration engaged in a campaign to alter public opinion on the contras which has been denoted as "white propaganda".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contras

Wow! Syria!! It's Deja Vu all over again!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#21
Quote Tariq Ali on Truthdig:Barack Obama’s claim that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad used chemical weapons against civilians and rebels is “totally unconvincing.”

...the main evidence allegedly supplied to the United States comes in the form of electronic and digital eavesdropping supplied by Israel.

*

http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/tariq_ali_on_syrian_chemical_weapon...

* And if you don't get why we shouldn't trust Israel on such a thing then you must believe that the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty in 1967 was just an accident....and you must believe that the Israelis weren't selling chemical weapons to both Iran and Iraq prior to the Iraq gassing of the Iranians and Kurds.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#22

DAnneMarc: Yeah...same old Contras...different country! And Reagan(666) morphed into Bush then Obama. I wonder if the US is importing some large quantities of hashish from Syria...they get plenty of opium from Afghanistan since they cut down on the Taliban who wouldn't allow it to be grown. I once read, many years ago during the Guns for Drugs Contra conflicts that our entire banking system would collapse if our government put a stop to US banks laundering all that drug money. I guess when an entire economy gets hooked on drug money it's hard to stop the addiction. Now that they are making MJ more legal in many places and the Feds are not going to go after MJ users if the state's laws approve their laws on MJ use then the price should come way down. Not that I plan to buy any...and if I did...I'd eat it in brownies..certainly not pollute my lungs with that stuff. It may or may not be better than tobacco but I believe that anything other than fresh air is harmful to the lungs. It may help asthmatics...I don't know?

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#23

.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#24

Palindromedary ~ Honestly I'm not sure. I quoted The Guardian; which, in the past, has always been a reliable source of information from my perspective. However, If I were to use my own eyes and our corporate media, I could attest for anywhere from 10 to 50 victims of non-conventional warfare; and, not all were fatalities. Nevertheless, The Guardian is a source I tend to trust.

Of course depleted Uranium far out-Trumps any chemical weapons. That is a crime against humanity without any rivalry. If I remember correctly our own troops suffered from the effects of depleted uranium.

I will restate my case--whenever criminals get away with a crime they will inevitably attempt to out do that crime. We need to enforce international law, now. The powers that be--in this country--are out of control.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#25

Palindromedary ~ Concerning MJ... Just look at Willie Nelson and Keith Richards. I doubt MJ is as bad for the lungs as tobacco.

That being said, I agree with you!! Eat it, don't smoke it. Lungs are too delicate and precious to risk; whereas, the stomach contains acid and can handle fibrous vegetation quite well, thank you. The health benefits of MJ are off the chart. Lowering blood pressure, stimulating appetite, reducing pain, easing Alzheimer's, arthritis, and cancer patients symptoms, and above all reducing stress.

Perhaps the most promising use for MJ is breaking the addictions to other drugs. Perhaps that is why the DOJ is so resistant to approving the decisions of the states to legalize it.

I've already stated how I believe MJ fits into Biblical Prophecy and will not bore you with that again; but, I will repost my link to the Hemp Solution for you and anyone else interested on how we can solve the majority of our world wide problems the natural way.

http://thehempsolution.blogspot.com/

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#26

By the way, this might be a bit off topic; but, since we are already talking about depleted uranium warfare and crimes against humanity has anyone heard that every tuna recently caught off the coast of California has tested positive for radiation?

Bluefin Tuna Caught Near California

Quote Huffington Post:Bluefin tuna just can't catch a break. Weeks after it was reported that overfishing had reduced the Pacific population of the fish, which is popular in sushi bars, by over 96 percent, researchers have found trace levels of radiation still lingering in their flesh almost two years after the catastrophe at the nuclear plant in Fukushima, Japan. And the 50 tuna they studied were all caught off the coast of California, 6,000 miles east of Japan, where they were born.

The tuna that registered the highest levels of radioactivity were those that migrated to California in 2011, soon after the accident, but those that migrated in 2012 also demonstrated above-normal levels of radiation. Monte Burke at Forbes writes that the results of the study suggest "there is still a high level of radiation in the waters near the Fukushima plant most likely because, as marine chemist, Ken Buessler, asserts, the plant is still leaking radiation into the ocean nearly two years later."

Yikes. Doctoral student Daniel Madigan, one of the chief authors of the study also did work showing that tuna were radioactive back in spring of 2012, so it's not like this is a new phenomenon. But it's alarming that radioactivity is still popping up. Not that it should be a complete surprise: Bluefin tuna can live to be up to 30 years old and, because they're near the top of the marine food chain, they're unusually prone to building up high levels of pollutants in their bodies.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/21/bluefin-tuna-radiation_n_2736221.html

Foreign Policy might just be the least of our worries.

(Vials of the wrath of God from Revelations? Ever notice how the exhaust stack of a nuclear power plant almost resembles a giant vial?)

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#27

Palindromedary ~ Oh, I must be getting sleepy. It's been a long, long week. Pleasant dreams, my friend.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#28

Ever wonder why Martin Luther King is celebrated but Malcom X isn't? Ever wonder why certain icons have been fashioned as men of peace and any sore thumb phrases they may have uttered, which seem rather out of place or rather odd compared to the other things they've said, get buried? These icons may have been a real pain-in-the-backside to the ruling elite of their day but history is often dictated by the ruling elite and what we know of history is a corrupted version. Gandhi, for instance, is played up as a man of peace. Someone who wouldn't hurt a fly...he said he was a man of all religions...and, one would get the impression that he even adopted the Jainsian religion where they really don't kill flies or bugs or any kind of life. But then some of his quotes may not be very much emphasized. Quotes that I have posted in previous posts. Where he is taking a more violent turn against his enemies. There are also some Jesus quotes that tend to indicate that we should all not rebel against our masters, and give unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar (ie: be sure to pay you taxes). Then the man of peace makes some sore-thumb awkward quotes that don't seem to fit the man-of-peace image. Overturning the money changers tables was an act of violence. And there are other quotes that don't seem to fit a man-of-peace scenario. I think that there are ruling elite historians who manipulate history to manipulate the masses. They cajole the masses to be peaceful and don't upset the money changers tables (of course some things slip through). Yes, I've heard all of the worn out apologists trying to reinterpret history...these wise men speak in parables....whatever! Whenever there are contradictions to the "official" stories...they were just talking in parables...not literally. Yeah, right!

And so, now we all celebrate the ruling elite generated version of history so that none of us are ever inspired to emulate the relatively hidden or suppressed side of these icons...ie: the rebel against authority side. Jesus wasn't a member of the Sicarii, as our ruling elite historians tell us (but other historians tend to differ). The Sicarii, in biblical times, were the terrorists of the day...carrying curved daggers (the Sicarii dagger) hidden in their clothing. They'd sneak up behind the Roman soldiers in the crowded market place and stab the soldiers in the back and then disappear in the crowds. Some historians believe that Jesus was a member of the Sicarii.

I don't know about Gandhi or Martin Luther King but they really ticked off the ruling elite Brits and ruling elite Americans so much so that they were assassinated by them.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#29

Me too, DAnneMarc. Guten Nacht!

Flopot's picture
Flopot 8 years 2 weeks ago
#30

Well, it is hard to disagree with such an anodyne speech. Allow me to fix one of his phrases though...

"We might not face the same HOPE of 1963..."

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#31

Palindromedary ~ A most interesting and provocative analysis indeed. A good friend of mine also has similar criticisms of Gandhi. He points out that he was very racist against South Africans and even compared them to animals in one famous quote. He left his wife to pursue a gay relationship with a body builder. Just a few tidbits to add to your sobering quotes.

Funny that you point out the money changers story about Jesus. How does a conflicting story "slip out" on a completely made up character? "You have turned the house of God into a den of thieves."

Actually, I've always wondered how it "slipped out" and was only caught by me that when Jesus was tempted three times in the wilderness by Satan one of the temptations was Satan offered Jesus his vast Throne on his church that ruled over all the earth. Jesus refused. JESUS REFUSED!!! That of course would imply that Satan before and after rules the church of the earth. Go figure! Who'da thunk it? You can't bargain with something you don't own. How did that "slip out"--especially from a completely made up story. What was going through the authors head when he screwed that up? More important, why didn't they fix that blunder--they've had 2000 years? ...If it was made up, that is...

By and large I like your first question best, why Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and not Malcolm X? Your theory is quite sound and probably accurate. Malcolm X suffered so much from white supremacy that anything he said or did was probably taken as a direct threat to the white elitists. Also, Malcolm's Islamic background probably disqualified him from any type of heroic status in our culture due to it's inherent threat to Christianity, middle east dominance, and our theocracy as perceived by the white elitist. Of course, here in my "open-minded" beloved home town we remember Malcolm X for who he really was, a victim of racism, a fighter for righteousness, a very brave and noble man, and a hero. In the schools and colleges I've attended there have been whole courses taught about the life of Malcolm X. We have schools and libraries named after him; and here, he will not be forgotten. Here, the only reason he doesn't share equal status with MLK is because he wasn't as charismatic; and, didn't embrace the way of peace as saintly and perfectly as MLK. But then in our time, who did? Gandhi? I think not!

Only Mother Theresa might outshine MLK. I wonder when she will be canonized? If you ask me, they both should be declared Saints. Don't ask me when it will happen--after all, it's not my church!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#32
Famous last words at the funeral of Malcolm X

Quote Actor Ossie Davis:There are those who will consider it their duty, as friends of the Negro people, to tell us to revile him, to flee, even from the presence of his memory, to save ourselves by writing him out of the history of our turbulent times. Many will ask what Harlem finds to honor in this stormy, controversial and bold young captain—and we will smile. Many will say turn away—away from this man, for he is not a man but a demon, a monster, a subverter and an enemy of the black man—and we will smile. They will say that he is of hate—a fanatic, a racist—who can only bring evil to the cause for which you struggle! And we will answer and say to them: Did you ever talk to Brother Malcolm? Did you ever touch him, or have him smile at you? Did you ever really listen to him? Did he ever do a mean thing? Was he ever himself associated with violence or any public disturbance? For if you did you would know him. And if you knew him you would know why we must honor him.[178]
Quote Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.:While we did not always see eye to eye on methods to solve the race problem, I always had a deep affection for Malcolm and felt that he had a great ability to put his finger on the existence and root of the problem. He was an eloquent spokesman for his point of view and no one can honestly doubt that Malcolm had a great concern for the problems that we face as a race.[181]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#33
In all fairness, Gandhi did say some great things that should be remembered forever and help redeem his other less noble contributions to society.
Quote Gandhi:An eye for and eye, and soon the whole world is blind.
Quote Gandhi:You must be the change you wish to see in the world.
Quote Gandhi:Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony.
Quote Gandhi:You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

Very well said!!

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mahatma_gandhi.html

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#34

Very interesting, DAnneMarc...food for thought, there! And from what I've read about Mother Theresa she wasn't so much for overturning the money changer's tables as she was accepting money from anywhere she could get it...including form the money changers. Did she, so unlike the Biblical Jesus, accept a little bit of the kingdom from the devil and conveniently ignore the money changers? Like, what the heck, I'll take your corrupt money and turn the other cheek! She took donations from Charles Keating of the Savings and Loans scandals (money that he stole from others)...how charitable..huh? She also had no problem taking money from Haitis ruthless dictator Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier who plundered his country...how charitable..huh? And she also took money from a British Publisher Robert Maxwell who embezzled UK£450 million from his employee's pension fund. Although she could, perhaps, be forgiven for that last because Maxwell's crimes hadn't been discovered until later. But, in accord with her previous actions, I doubt it really would have mattered if she had known.

But old soon-to-be-saint (maybe?) Mother Theresa didn't seem to care that she was taking stolen money from these creeps. Oh, and guess what!! Only about 7% of all the charitable donations she got was actually used for actual charity. What happened to the 93% that Mother Theresa's Mission of Charity received...certainly not to feed the poor? Maybe she had to tithe 93% to Mother Church in Rome so that they could open up more whore houses and invest in more Wall Street derivatives...buy more gold chalices and fancy adornments. Oh, yeah, and Hitchens took great issue with the idea that Mother Theresa was actually a virgin as so many believers want to believe.

I highly distrust many charities anyway..many of the tear jerker commercials you see on TV are just trying to rip people off by manipulating their emotions. I believe that most of the money goes for overhead..ie: paying the exorbitant salaries of the top execs in those charities. I'd bet they also cook the books....little numbers prestidigitation here and there.

Both Christopher Hitches, Tariq Ali and Aroup Chatterjee (Indian-born writer living in Britain) among many others, have been very critical of Mother Theresa..writing books and making expose' films about her.

Quote wikipedia:She was sometimes accused by Hindus in her adopted country of trying to convert the poor to Catholicism by "stealth".[12] Christopher Hitchens said that Teresa's own words on poverty proved that her intention was not to help people. He quoted Teresa's words at a 1981 press conference in which she was asked: "Do you teach the poor to endure their lot?" She replied: "I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people."

Chatterjee added that the public image of Mother Teresa as a "helper of the poor" was misleading, and that only a few hundred people are served by even the largest of the homes. According to a Stern magazine report about Mother Teresa, the (Protestant) Assembly of God charity serves 18,000 meals daily in Calcutta, many more than all the Mission of Charity homes together.[citation needed]

Chatterjee alleged that many operations of the order engage in no charitable activity at all but instead use their funds for missionary work. He stated, for example, that none of the eight facilities that the Missionaries of Charity run in Papua New Guinea have any residents in them, being purely for the purpose of converting local people to Catholicism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mother_Teresa

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#35
Quote web site article: A belief central to Christianity is that the gospel message is unique and the historical fulfillment of Judaic lessons and prophecy. Research into early Christian history has shown this belief to be an oversimplification. Images from Greek gnosticism and Zoroastrian dualism are found throughout the Christian scriptures, particularly in John's gospel and the epistles of Paul. In addition, many early Christian doctrines were influenced by stoicism. These non-judaic influences are well documented by theological scholars and verify that Christianity did not arise solely within an isolated Hebraic religious context.
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Further research has revealed that the five great world religions share numerous themes and symbols which, when viewed cross-culturally, demonstrate that the world religions are much more closely allied than orthodox or fundamentalist Christian views would have us believe.
---
..historically the Church has tried to distance itself from mystical theologies similar to those found in Eastern religions (Pagels, 1981:xxii)
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Rather than a single “Judeo-Christian” stream of spiritual truth winding its way through history, there were many streams of theological and philosophical knowledge throughout the Mediterranean region which interacted and flowed together.

When reading the following parallel teachings, one should keep in mind that the Hindu scriptures being cited predate the Christian New Testament by at least 500 years. In addition the term "Brahman," which in Indian philosophy is the unchanging, all-embracing Reality behind the universe, is also referred to in the Upanishads as the 4 "divine Lord, the personal God, endowed with manifold glories," who "holds dominion over all the worlds" and is "one without a second" (Svetasvatara Upanishad;
Prabhavananda, 1948:121). Swami Nikhilananda, a highly respected Hindu commentator, also adds, "endowed with infinite power, Brahman is the lord of lords"
-----
...additional examples from the Upanishads and the Gita which parallel Christ spending three days in the tomb, His temptation in the wilderness, the parable of the prodigal son, and His interpretation of moral teachings.

...This portion of the story is reminiscent of Jesus being tempted by Satan in the wilderness. Before imparting this teaching, the King of Death tempts him with power and riches, hoping to convince Nachiketa to choose a different boon. "Choose for thyself a mighty kingdom ... ask for that -- not for sweet pleasures only but for the power, beyond all thought, to taste their sweetness." He also promises him "9 celestial maidens beautiful to behold." But Nachiketa holds fast, resists temptation proving himself worthy of receiving the secret of immortality (Prabhavananda 1948:16)

http://www.bsu.edu/libraries/virtualpress/wolfe/word/ParallelTeachings.pdf

note: go to the web site to see many parallels between Hindu and Christian religions.

Quote DAnneMarc:.. How did that "slip out"--especially from a completely made up story. What was going through the authors head when he screwed that up? More important, why didn't they fix that blunder--they've had 2000 years? ...If it was made up, that is...

And, perhaps, the same could be said for ancient Hindu sacred texts...they had way more years to "fix the blunders" ...if...as you said..."if it was made up". So, do you believe that all those ridiculous stories in the Hindu texts are all just "made up"? I'd say so! And I'd say that much of what is in the Bible...all those stories are largely plagiarized from more ancient ridiculousness...modified to convince, the then modern (albeit 2000+ years ago) Hebrew and Pagan mentality.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#36

DAnneMarc: Did you know that the early church fathers were fully aware of how amazingly close those parallels of the more ancient Hindu beliefs were to the new early Christian stories? In fact, when they sent missionaries to win converts to Christianity into India...the Hindus said..."what are you trying to pull here...you aren't teaching us anything...you've stolen our ideas and changed them to suit you...you have nothing to teach us!" The missionaries and early church fathers were a bit embarrassed and had to attempt to explain them. The early christian church's response? "Oh, that was just Satan's attempt at tricking people into having doubts about Christianity!..Satan planted all those stories hundreds or thousands of year ago to confuse faithful Christians!" Well, a lot of Christians may have bought that but not so the Hindus!

And so when Mother Theresa went into India she was seen by many Hindus as someone who was less interested in the poor than in converting Hindus to Christianity...but specifically..to Catholicism. And I have already quoted Mother Theresa that seems to prove that to be true.

It wasn't just the Hindu religions... it was many different ancient myths from even thousands of years before Christianity...Mesopotamia...Egypt..and others. In fact, Christianity was Paganized, back then, so that more converts could be found. And that is largely what many Christians follow today...a Paganized Christianity based largely on Judaism but also on the plagiarism of more ancient myths...myths that most Christians would reject as being superstitious garbage today. Yet, they still believe in ridiculous ideas like turning water into wine, walking on water, casting out demons into swine, virgin births, angels, devils, 7 headed monsters, demon possession...dying then coming back to life 3 days later...just a whole bunch of nonsense that isn't much different that ancient Egyptian, Mesopotamian, Greek, or Roman superstitions.

Oh, yes, I've heard many times the apologist's attempt they make when they say "oh, many parts of the bible are not really literally true but are figuratively true...that they are parables...messages written so that uneducated bumpkins can understand and follow the moral laws laid down by God and set down in the bible." ..or some such non-sense. Holy batshit, Robin...it's a wonder we ever got past the dark ages...or, did we?!! Remnants survive!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#37

Palindromedary ~ Wow! That was a lecture and a half. Thanks for sharing! Where do I start? The religious topics I'm mostly already aware of. I studied the history of Christianity, Catholic theology, the history of "The Church", classic mythology and world history already. Once I wrote a paper comparing the similarity of the Babylonian, Greek, Roman, and Norse myths. I even went so far--as you just did--to try and tie them into the fundamentals of Judeo Christian beliefs. Of course I wrote that paper in a course about classic mythology and my myopic teacher didn't like the idea of me going beyond the purview of the course. She gave me a B+. I will never forget her. She was wrong!

One thing about your information that puzzles me is the connection to Hinduism from Christianity. It seems I remember learning that in Hinduism the stories, gods, ideas, and even legends are completely different. After all, some gods have four faces, 6 arms, and are blue. Also, I don't remember the Kama Sutra mentioned anywhere in my Catholic Catechism. That is something I would have remembered. Nevertheless, I'll take your word for it. Now, you have me curious. Thanks for those links. I will look closely at them the first chance I get. I always appreciated the beauty of what I learned about Hinduism and look forward to learning more.

Generally, the main issue about these stories that you have to remember is that they don't always intend to portray the same hero as much as intending to portray the same challenges the readers have in their own personal life. We are all born and die. We age. We grow. We are challenged. We struggle. We question.

One common theme in mythology is the archetype of the hero. In ancient times the hero was powerful, indestructible, and descendant of the gods. In Rome we have Hercules, in Norse myths we have Thor, in Judeo Christian myths we have Samson. These were the ancient archetypes. Powerful warriors. Many things to many people; though, basically the same guy. Someone to guide the peasants into being warriors. Since Rome the need to encourage powerful warriors amongst the common people ended. Then began the myths about the peacemakers. The righteous martyrs. The obedient servants.

I've taken the time to devour these stories myself and analyse them from every perspective you can imagine--and then some. I can't say I disagree with anything you've said about their similarities, uses, and origins.

However, I can disagree with your statement that the use of parables is a convenient excuse to cover for the impossible. For sure, there are amongst all religious institutions those who do exactly what you are talking about. However, when one reads the Bible one learns that whenever Jesus told a parable he followed up with an explanation about what he was talking about. The same explanation follows the story about the 7 headed monster in Revelations. Look it up. The seven heads are seven kings. The 10 horns are ten kingdoms. Many interpret this to refer to NATO. The head that was wounded by the sword is the USA. The USA after the assassination of JFK of course. If you have an imagination with the explanation of the 7 headed monster you can read all kinds of potential applications to this metaphor you want. My point is that the metaphor is explained in the original text as a metaphor. The meaning is also explained leaving little room for misunderstandings and a whole lot of room for misinterpretation. The 7 headed monster is not real and never was meant to be.

That being said, you can look at the rest of the Bible quite literally. Old testament people living 800 years, Moses parting the Red Sea, the flood of Noah, Jesus turning water into wine and Lazarus rising from the dead. In Revelations Jesus says that in the new Jerusalem he will write the name of his father in the foreheads of the saved. No metaphor here. These are literal events. You believe them or you don't. Anyone trying to sell you a book of ideas that these are parables is selling Holy batcrap, Batman! Whether or not you believe they are true is something that is totally up to you.

Speaking about Revelations, everything you said about Mother Theresa is a shock beyond belief. I almost wish I didn't even bring it up. That quote you posted from her almost blew my ears off my head. Needless to say I will have to read more on that. My friend you are giving me homework at this point. Not fair! This is supposed to be my weekend off.

Nevertheless, if Mother Theresa is wiped off the short list for canonization that only leaves Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. In either case, he certainly deserves it more. He faced opposition and danger to speak the truth. He braved controversy and persecution. He acted mostly on his own without backing of any huge institution or sponsor. He risked his life to make a difference in the world and succeeded in doing so. And finally, he left us at an young age in the prime of life, fighting for equality on his feet. Mother Theresa left us at a ripe old age, supported and protected by the largest group of organized crime in history. Like Billy Joel said, "Only the good die young." Don't forget what I said earlier--Jesus REFUSED Satan's offer of the Throne of his world wide church. You know what that means. Your revelations only help prove that theory to be true.

Thanks again my friend. Much food for thought. I'll have to chew slowly.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#38

DAnneMarc: Wow! I'm impressed...you have convinced me that your are very knowledgeable about these things. You go way beyond most people. I really know very little...just some things I've read from time to time. I have never really actually done an in depth study like you have. I have never taken a college course on mythology or religion. I have read much of the Bible (many years ago) just out of curiosity.

".... the 7 headed monster in Revelations. Look it up. The seven heads are seven kings. The 10 horns are ten kingdoms." So, does it actually say this in the Bible, or is this what someone interpreted it to be saying? I suspect that it doesn't actually say that the "seven heads are seven kings" or that the "10 horns are ten kingdoms". And if that is the case (sorry, I don't have my Bible with me so I can't look it up) but I do have many books on the subject...some like Robert Eisenman and Elaine Pagels...and many others...and then...there is always the internet. And by the way, you might be interested in this web site: http://www.truthbeknown.com/ I have read Acharya S. (AKA Dorothy Murdock) books and articles at her web site years ago and watched a number of documentaries she has done. I guess I am going to have to get back to reading more.

Quote DanneMarc:...you can look at the rest of the Bible quite literally. Old testament people living 800 years, Moses parting the Red Sea, the flood of Noah, Jesus turning water into wine and Lazarus rising from the dead.
Well, I sure don't believe it...if those things are to be taken literally then one may as well take all the other more ancient myths literally as well. Those things sound just as crazy as 7 headed monsters with 10 horns.

Sorry, DAnneMarc, I sure wouldn't want your ears blown off and sorry about reducing your free time on the week end. Maybe you shouldn't go to that truthbeknown web. But, I think I'm going to go back to that site...lots of interesting things!!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#39

Palindromedary ~ Sorry, I might have messed it up a bit. Here is the interpretation in it's entirety from Revelations:

The Holy Bible

Quote The Book of Revelations--Chapter 17:7 ¶And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

14 ¶These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

The seven heads are seven mountains; or, The Roman Catholic Church (ie. Vatican City, Rome. "The city of seven mountains.") The 10 horns are the 10 kings, or kingdoms. "The woman, MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF WHORES, Is Iraq (ie Babylon) .Oil itself is the cup the whore is holding that is full of abominations. With this explanation the whole metaphor makes much more sense.The best interpretation I have is that The Beast represents the power of fossil fuel. Also the evil of fossil fuel. It is an entity which was, is not, and will come again. What better literal definition for a fossil can you think of?

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#40

Palindromedary ~ I hope that answers your question. I have a full day tomorrow and have to turn in. If I can chime in more I will do what I can when I can.

In the meantime you can download the entire seachable King James Version of the Bible from this website for free:

http://www.theophilos.com/

If you are so inclined. Have a great weekend, my friend.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#41

DAnneMarc: Thank you for that information. And it does look like those quotes says that the 7 heads were seven mountains and that the 10 horns are 10 kings or kingdoms but I didn't read into it any more than that. Yes, I know that Rome was built on 7 hills but I think it a stretch to think of them as mountains.But, of course, it does prove that they weren't talking about actual 7 headed monsters...like dragons or anything. They were obviously referring to something obliquely...symbolically.

All of that stuff sounds like Nostradamus and although there were some things that he got lucky on...like the name in one of his quatrains was Hister...granted a very close similarity to Hitler...I wouldn't take very seriously any of that stuff. Even the so-called seers and palm reader charlatans who bilk money out of rich old ladies today use the same kind of non-sense banter...that some people get fooled into thinking they are saying something esoterically cogent.

I ran across a youtube video of this person who was absolutely sure that Google Earth was trying to hide some deep space object which he believe was the planet Niburu because that section of the star field was completely blank...completely black...a perfect rectangular section. I checked it out...and sure enough...a perfect rectangular section of complete blackness. That person further said that he went to the Astronomical Society website and looked at the exact coordinates and saw a bright dominant object in their deep sky photos. Yup, that proved it...Google Earth was hiding the planet Niburu. They'll invade in the morning! ;-} Or, maybe I'm getting that mixed up with the planet Obama invading Syria?

2012 came and went and no end of the world as per the people who believed that the end of the Aztec calender foretold of it. And, believe it or not, these people have now extended their non-sense...I think the new end of the world is supposed to be sometime this month of September. Then, they'll find some other ridiculous story to keep their nonsense going even longer.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#42

Thanks DAnneMarc...I just may do that! I downloaded the Koran, written in Arabic and English along with various audio reciters of Koranic passages, once. I was just trying to add to my learning Arabic language material. And, it's about time I hit the sack myself!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#43

By the way, did you know that Adolf Hitler was not his real, original name? Alois Schicklegruber, Hitler's father, was born out of wedlock to his mother Marie Anna Schicklegruber who later married Johann Georg Heidler. Hitler's father eventually took his stepfather's last name. And the name Heidler was very close to the Name Hitler. Adolf eventually took the name of Hitler...maybe, perhaps, because Adolf Hitler (Heidler)..always up on the latest popular Nostradamus lore...may have thought it may help in his own self fulfilling prophecy. Heidler, Hister, Hitler? Why not? So maybe Nostradamus was not really so psychic after all. You know that those Nazis heads were all full of images of Valhalla and Nibelungun of old Germanic and Norse mythology. I do love a little Wagner in the morning! Ah, the horror!

Quote article:
Though the idea may seem preposterous to some, the question seems to stem from the remote possibility that Hitler's grandfather was Jewish. Hitler's father, Alois, was registered as an illegitimate child with no father when born in 1837 and to this day Hitler's paternal grandfather is unknown. Alois' mother, Maria Schicklgruber, is known to have worked in the home of a wealthy Jew, so there is some chance, however small, that a son in that household got Hitler's grandmother pregnant.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/hitlerjew.html

Heil Schickelgruber! Just doesn't have the ring sound of dictator does it.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 8 years 2 weeks ago
#44

50 years ago....that brings back a chronology memory burnt into my brain.....the year 1826.....the year that Thomas and John passed away.......exactly 50 years after the DECLARATION.

I'm not sure why I bring that up, other than the spirit of 76 in me, and of course the 50 year anniversary time span of of Martin's everlasting speech.

But I will say that I've been on this blog for a while and have paid pretty close attention to the like minded individuals posting their hearts and soul. The one dominant theme I've picked up on is the call for a third party takeover on the Democratic side. Even Pap has mentioned it....and I don't disagree in principle, but I do disagree in method.

So here goes....my short rant......First of all I'm not as daft as a couple of the obsessive bloggers believe me to be. I do get it, in fact I think, probably even more than they.....that the majority of democrats are corporate controlled....no kidding...duhhhhh!

Trust me , given the corpse media manipulation and voter brain apathy, there is no way in hell a progressive third party will overcome the Republicans at the polls. Thus the vote would be fractured in favor of total power to the billionaires, which will utimately will lead to violent revolution....or worse violent submission.

What's my point?.....Follow the billionaire Teabagger strategy.....infiltrate and takeover the Democratic party. You didn't see the Teabaggers do a third party thing and they won't....Wake up my friends before we decide to descend into a dark place that 99.9% of us will regret. This from a Socialist!

Peace Out!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#45

And in fact, Nostradamus was actually referring to the Danube river when he mentioned Hister.

Quote wikipedia:
Beasts wild with hunger shall cross the rivers:
Most of the fighting shall be close by the Hister [Danube],
It shall result in the great one being dragged in an iron cage,
While the German shall be watching over the infant Rhine.

This is often interpreted to be a prediction of the war against Adolf Hitler's Nazi state in the twentieth century. However, none of the reputable sources listed support this view. In fact all of them point out that the name 'Hister' (as Nostradamus himself explains in his Almanac for 1554[2]) in fact refers in his writings to the Danube, being mentioned (as elsewhere[3]) alongside 'R[h]in' (Rhine) -- two rivers that formed the north-eastern frontier of the ancient Roman Empire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hister

I was actually chauffeured across the Danube about 6 years ago when I traveled from Vienna airport to Bratislava then on to Piestany, Slovakia. So I guess you might say I crossed Hister.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#46

Palindromedary ~ Nostradamus? Now you're talking my language. Actually language is part of the problem when trying to interpret Nostradamus. You see, not only did he speak French; but, he used other languages including ancient Latin to further cloud his quatrains in "oblique" mystery. (And, to further leave the interpretation in the eye of the beholder.)

For instance, the quatrain you mentioned in its original language is:

From the prophecies of Nostradamus

Quote Nostradamus:C2Q24

Bestes farouches de faim fleuues tranner;

Plus part du champ encontre Hister sera,

En cage de fer le grand fera treisner,

Quand rien enfant de Germain obseruera.

Another potential translation is:
Quote Translation:Beasts ferocious from hunger will swim across rivers:The greater part of the region will be against the Hister,the great one will cause it to be dragged in an iron cage,when the German child will observe nothing.
Heil Danube! Can anyone think of another way to translate and change the meaning. Language is so much fun! Here you have Hister, a disobedient German child, a dragged iron cage and a conflict near rivers. If the conflict is war and the iron cage is tanks and Germany is involved you have WWII. These dots connect themselves. Hister is just the icing on the cake of this prophecy. However, it probably can have many other interpretations as well like you said. Use a little imagination. Actually, I've read several different interpretive works on Nostradamus and no two translate the quatrains the same way. Go figure! Very frustrating! So you were chauffeured across the Danube, huh? Nice. I wish I could be chauffeured some time. I'd even be happy in a canoe ride across a pond.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 8 years 2 weeks ago
#47

Palindromedary ~ Personally I think the idea that Hitler would use Nostradamus to promote himself was brilliant. It was disingenuous of him to change his real name to do so. Oh well, it worked. He needed all the help he could get and he pulled it off. Too bad he was a jerk. Why couldn't some nice guy pull off the same stunt? Why is it always the jerks?

Green_TZM's picture
Green_TZM 8 years 2 weeks ago
#48

Tennessee Green Party sues to toss out voter ID laws. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/27/green-party-voter-id-tennessee_n_3822968.html I KNOW THAT THOM WANTS MORE GREEN NEWS.

Flopot's picture
Flopot 8 years 2 weeks ago
#49

@2950-10K

Definition of a socialist - any person or policy that is a threat to corporate profits ;-)

Interesting aside - a former US army general spilled the beans on why we fight endless wars...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html

Here's a famous quote from one of his articles...

"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."

Plunder hiding behind patriotism :/

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 8 years 2 weeks ago
#50

DAnneMarc: I understand that people like Nostradamus had to be very esoteric and obscure because of the likelyhood of someone, back then, not appreciating freedom of speech. One was likely to be burned to a stake for saying something someone didn't like! While we all seem to be having a good old time "freely" speaking (relatively "freely" speaking that is) I wonder just how long that will last.

That chauffeured trip across the Hister (I mean Danube) was actually a business trip...thank goodness those are over. It was nice to see all those places though. I wish I could have seen more of Vienna and Bratislavia, though. Piestani was a nice quaint little town that had a bridge across the river to a very famous hot springs spa where, I believe it was said that Napoleon even fancied. The entrance to the bridge (one side is a covered) on the Piestani side has a bronze statue of a man breaking his crutch in to (indicating that the spas cure people of their maladies). On the other side of the bridge there was the Thermia Palace hotel and a number of other spa buildings. I walked all around that place. Peacocks, Koi. Kids were jumping off the bridge into the river...an accordion player was playing some melodic Slovakian tunes on the bridge. Lots of Russians frequent the place on holiday to cure their ailments and they seemed to favor the hotel across the street from mine. There was a nice fountain with a foot bridge across it in the street just below my hotel. Very scenic place!

But, they wouldn't even accept my $US at their banks..and my bank cards wouldn't work at their ATMs because they would not accept any more than a 4 digit password...well I guess if they wouldn't even accept my bank card inside at the tellers they weren't going to at the ATMs either....good thing I had some Euros and Slovak Koruna with me. I was only there for a couple of weeks in the summer time. Very nice place! Peaceful...relaxing!

Oh, and they don't encourage tips at the restaurants..the waiter educated me....it's not necessary...like in Japan. I left a tip once in a Tokyo restaurant and the waitress came running down the sidewalk after me to return the money I left on the table as a tip. And then, some time after I returned to the states, I watched the movie "Hostel" and thought Whoa! I'm glad I didn't watch that 2005 movie before I went in 2007. ;-}

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