Manning sentenced, yet Bush and Cheney still walk free.
On Wednesday, Bradley Manning was sentenced to 35 years in prison. The Court also reduced his rank to Private, stripped him of all pay, and issued him a dishonorable discharge. Manning will get credit for 1,294 days for time served. Ben Wizner, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Speech, Privacy & Technology Project said, "When a soldier who shared information with the press and public is punished far more harshly than others who tortured prisoners and killed civilians, something is seriously wrong with our justice system.”
Wizner added, “A legal system that doesn't distinguish between leaks to the press in the public interest, and treason against the nation, will not only produce unjust results, but will deprive the public of critical information that is necessary for democratic accountability. This is a sad day for Bradley Manning, but it's also a sad day for all Americans who depend on brave whistleblowers and a free press for a fully informed public debate." Bradley Manning, who helped expose crimes, will be imprisoned, while Bush, Cheney and Tony Blair, who began a war of aggression, have their freedom to live as millionaires.
Do you have any ideas on how to identify those with competent, legitimate credentials?
Well said, Thom. Well said.
Of course, we never got justice for this SCAD either (State Crime Against Democracy):
We have become an efficient fascist state----effectiveness and durability is the agenda for all real Americans.
Vindictiveness is the Obama administration.
I have to say I agree with Kayakersandcat. I have volunteered for Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. Richard Gage, AIA, has gotten signatures (totally verified mind you) of almost 2,000 licensed architects and engineers to sign a petition for a new and independent investigation into the destruction of THREE towers on 9/11/01. Two planes, three towers. That alone should tell you something, Thom.
I'm just going to share some quotes that I think are appropriate:
"Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority... It thus
exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights, and of the First
Amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from
retaliation -- and their ideas from suppression -- at the hand of
an intolerant society."
--- U.S. Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens
"Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most
dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act
that could most easily defeat us."
--- Justice William O. Douglas
"All exercise of authority corrupts - All submission to authority degrades."
I don't have a reference for the last quote, so I don't know who said it.
I agree. When world class physicist Stephen Hawkings cast doubt on the events of 911 I take note. Not to mention the many other world renoun physicist who have set up a website based on Issac Newtons theory. The only crackpots involved after that are the ones in denial. Bill Maher being an excellent example of denial. Oliver Stone was reported to have been threatened with his liberty if even dared make an unapproved movie about 911, and Jesse Ventura claims the only reason he has not been hit is because of his visible profile. So we have the thinking citizens choice : The 911 commision BS or Newtons Law. Simple choice.
I am not an engineering, a scientist, a pilot, or a metaluergist. But I do know that Jet fuel, which is just highly refined kerosene, burning in the open air, will NOT produce a temperature hot enough to melt steel. Second, the compressor blades in those big jet engines are, suposedly (I haven't been able to verify this, yet), made of a Titanium-Nickel alloy with a melting point in excess of 5,000 degrees Farenheit. The government wants us to believe they were completely vaporized in the Pentagon attack; the only compressor rotor that was found at the scene, both GE and Rolls Royce have stated PUBLICLY could NOT have come from either of the main engines or the APU.
Was 9/11 a government conspiracy, at least in part? You can bet you aunt Fannie's fanny it was. Personally, I believe the government discovered a plan to fly ONE plane in to the world trade center - and then decided to "enhance" the attack for greater gain, politacally and monitarily.
There is just so much evidence available, people need to open their eyes and see it - look up the facts and the science for themselves. Otherwise, soon some corpratocricy will be telling us all when can and can't open our eyes.
I think that we’ve crossed the threshold leaving behind a nation of law, and embarking on a nation of men…
Palindromedary ~ Posted a fine link to an article published in a scientific journal, The Open Chemical Physics Journal, that conducted experiments on the dust from the world trade center. The study was conducted by scientists around the world using a variety of cutting edge techniques and found without a doubt trace elements of nano therminite in many samples collected from all over Manhattan.
To date the study hasn't been disproved, discussed, or addressed. The simple fact that a thorough scientific study published in a peer reviewed journal is being completely ignored by the justice department and the mainstream media is suspicious in itself.
The fact that Thom Hartmann is dismissing this topic and refusing to host an entire show devoted to interviews with various experts only shows that he has been compromised by the perpetrators.
For the record, and to answer chuckle8's question in post #3 you can identify anyone with competent legitimate credentials who have extensive education and experience flying jumbo jets, engineers of tall buildings, physicists, architects, metallurgists, demolition experts, eye witnesses, and scientists who identify elements and materials in debris. You disqualify anyone who works in any capacity with the government, intelligence community, oil industry, or any company with government contracts. The best experts are private citizens or foreign professionals with no ties at all to any aspect of the attacks or ensuing wars. There are a plethora of competent legitimate candidates with reasonable credentials. Unfortunately, there are also a plethora of crackpots. Thom would have to take some time and do a lot of research and background checking to cherry pick the best for his show. It would also be interesting and fair if he picked qualified experts with opposing perspectives and let them respond to each other. That way we could decide who had the better argument. At the same time we could call the show and interject our own questions and opinions for their response. That would be the best format. Anything else would be propaganda. I'm sure it would be one of Thom's highest rated shows. If he already did it I'm sorry I missed it.
Not to pursue the topic at all would indicate that Thom has been compromised. Such a response would also show good reason to support the inside job conspiracy theory. Far too many media personalities refuse flat out to even discuss the topic on the air. Such close mindedness for such a popular topic is very suspicious.
I still find it pretty incredible that during his reign of terror for profit, Cheney's getting wasted off his ass and shooting a guy in the freaking head hardly even merits any attention in comparison to all the other extreme criminal crap he pulled and got away with. Vice President Bush and him were like a couple of out of control and above the law frat boys with unlimited power.
Regarding the 911 discussion going on above..... my take is that just like the Russians warned us about the Boston Marathon bomber, we were warned well ahead of time in detail about 911. These events were allowed to happen in order to continue justification for massive military and spy spending. It's the job security Eisenhower warned us about.
Flopot ~ You are becoming a fountain of insight! Thank you so much for that sobering and informative article about the JFK assassination. For the benefit of other readers here is a clip from the article summing up the enduring relevance of the event to our current concerns today.
Quote Article:LS: Why does the death of JFK still matter?
MB: It’s the most important crime in the second half of the 20th century, it is still unsolved and it marked in a way the end of the American Republic. Since then the financial-military-industrial complex rules and no president after JFK had the balls to challenge that. There is, in the words of Gore Vidal, “a one-party-system with two right-wings”; there are corporate media brainwashing the population 24/7 and propagating wars for global imperial dominance; there are covert operations all over the world to ensure this dominance – and this will go on and on as long the truth about the covert operation, the coup d’ état, against JFKs presidency is kept hidden.
I listened to today's podcast tonight and heard Thom's comments on the Bradley Manning sentence vs. the fact that Bush, Cheney et al. go free.
Today I was appalled to learn that not only they are going free, but Obama's D.O.J is actually filing a brief to give them immunity from a lawsuit filed in San Francisco by an Iraqi woman, on the basis of the Nuremberg judgment that a war of aggression is the ultimate crime.
Everything is upside down, how can someone like Obama who seems like a decent man (but maybe he isn't?) do this?! They could just let the lawsuit proceed...
marhab21 ~ Interesting! I wish Saleh the best of luck! It is ironic that the very man who I voted for because he promised to investigate the Bush administration for war crimes is actively attempting to block a victim of those crimes from doing that for him. President Obama is not only a liar; but, a very obedient tool of some of the worst criminals in the history of the world. Of course I hope he realizes that it is only a matter of time till these criminals are brought to justice; and, when that happens he and his DOJ will be accomplices as well.
Here is a transcript of his original response to the questionQuote Senator Barack Obama:What I would want to do is to have my Justice Department and my Attorney General immediately review the information that's already there and to find out are there inquiries that need to be pursued. I can't prejudge that because we don't have access to all the material right now. I think that you are right, if crimes have been committed, they should be investigated. You're also right that I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch hunt because I think we've got too many problems we've got to solve. So this is an area where I would want to exercise judgment -- I would want to find out directly from my Attorney General -- having pursued, having looked at what's out there right now -- are there possibilities of genuine crimes as opposed to really bad policies. And I think it's important-- one of the things we've got to figure out in our political culture generally is distinguishing betyween really dumb policies and policies that rise to the level of criminal activity. You know, I often get questions about impeachment at town hall meetings and I've said that is not something I think would be fruitful to pursue because I think that impeachment is something that should be reserved for exceptional circumstances. Now, if I found out that there were high officials who knowingly, consciously broke existing laws, engaged in coverups of those crimes with knowledge forefront, then I think a basic principle of our Constitution is nobody above the law -- and I think that's roughly how I would look at it.
Now his DOJ wants to excuse the Bush Administration from all wrong doing in office. Somehow lying the country into war, attacking unarmed civilians, and torturing prisoners falls in the catagory of "the scope of employment" of the President of the United States. What a lovely precedent! This completely flies in the face of his promise to prosecute "genuine crimes". If these were just "bad" or "dumb policies" you wouldn't have to excuse them would you?
You are right, everything is upside down. I agree that President Obama does seem like a decent man; however, there is clearly some unseen influence that is clouding and misguiding his judgment.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
It now appears that our military has been [secretly] PRIVATIZED. No one in government is going to tell us who the new owners are. It's a secret. Gee, I wonder WHO THE NEW OWNERS ARE NOW. .gniddik ton m'I And
The fact that Thom Hartmann is dismissing this topic and refusing to host an entire show devoted to interviews with various experts only shows that he has been compromised by the perpetrators.
It is so much easier to not put one's neck on the line, especially when you are a well known personality, with say..a popular TV show. As long as the topics don't veer over into something as controversial as challenging the official conspiracy theories of the government about 9/11 one can avoid aggravating one's ulcers. There are way too many people who have bought the lies, and even some who should know better, won't stick their necks out. They know their necks could get chopped off. They could lose their job or business or their lives. Investigative reporters, or others who have fought for truth, have met with very fishy accidents. Even Presidents, like JFK, have paid the price for going against the real powers that be. But I think part of the reason is that no one wants to look like a fool...after all... "conspiracy theories?"... we've all been conditioned to laugh at them...unless they originate from the government. From a personal (cluck, cluck) position, it's better off just going along with the government and if, say, 50 years from now** they finally admit 9/11 was an inside job, then those who didn't have the balls back then to speak out can just feign surprise and maybe a little disappointment, if they are even still alive, that they were lied to. It is so much safer than sticking your neck out.
One person that does repeatedly stick her neck out is Abby Martin of Breaking the Set on Russia Today TV. Max Keiser is another. Although Max Keiser exposes economic corruption and doesn't deal with things like 9/11. And those 2000 Architects and Engineers...all very brave for telling the truth about 9/11. But there are so many chickens who are afraid to buck the official lies. Cluck, Cluck!
The thing is that people find it so much more convenient to believe that a bunch of Arab Muslim Terrorists were behind 9/11. People were already preconditioned to distrust Muslims. After all, the Crusades did not entirely die out from the dark ages from either side. And then after the US continually had their hands into Middle Eastern countries business all the time...overthrowing governments with cheap dirty tricks...fomenting internal dissent...like in getting Mossadegh overthrown in Iran so the US could install a puppet dictator amenable to our oil companies, playing Iraq against Iran, after a while the people of the Middle East would rightly be quite upset with the US..especially since they sided with Israel all the time. Years of that built up hate and distrust made USians ripe for propaganda setting them up for another "Pearl Harbor".
To believe that 9/11 was an inside job, versus the evil deeds of untrusted foreigners, is such an incredible paradigm shift that most people just shut down any ability to see what happened right before their eyes (on video anyway). That, and the fact that many of those people are obviously psysics-challenged (ie: they don't comprehend the absolute limitations of the situation as expressed in physical realities based on science.) The biggest limitation is the fact that buildings cannot fall at near free-fall speed unless the supporting structure is rapidly removed so that any resistance to the falling upper structure is not impeding the fall. In other words, the reason why those WTC buildings fell at near free fall speed was because someone removed those supporting structures just as they would have in any other demolition...except this time they enhanced it by also using nano-thermite which is a high tech thermite that only our government had lots of it. Thermite has been around a long time but nano-thermite was technologically enhanced in high tech labs not too long before 9/11 happened. Thermite generates very high temperatures and can melt through and engine block in minutes...nano-thermite can explosively vaporize steel beams in fractions of a second.
The dust samples taken and analyzed from various locations within blocks of the WTC towers, one...just 10 minutes after the collapse of the the second tower...showed smoking-gun evidence that nano-thermite was used. And if nano-thermite is proven to have been used then the WTC buildings were demolished by insiders who set the whole thing up in advance and not by airliners crashing into those buildings by "terorists".
I also believe that those airliners were remotely hijacked (we certainly have the capability) and guided to their targets by insiders...not "terrorists" who couldn't even fly small Cessna planes. And that one that hit the Pentagon did a very skillful tight descending 180 degree turn that even seasoned pilots on airliners said they would not have been able to do. So how did someone, who couldn't even fly a Cessna (small prop plane), control a large airliner to do what it did?
**yeah, right...it's been about 50 years since JFK was assassinated and the government still won't admit that it was not a lone gunman called Lee Harvey Oswald behind it.
The recent "chemical" weapon that killed so many people in Syria is, from the US propaganda, that it was the Syrian regime of Assad that did it.
So, why would Assad do this right after the arrival of the UN delegation in Syria? What possible motive could he have had, in the midst of the UN delegation to have done such a thing? Would it not make more sense that the rebels, probably supplied by the US or another country, got hold of a "chemical" weapon and used it to make it look like Assad did this? to embarrass Assad?
Abby Martin kept asking that question on her show today...why would Assad do such a stupid thing right under the noses of the US delegation?
Most of those "rebels" are not even from Syria..they are outsiders...and they are being helped by the US. And after we have seen what the world's largest and most ruthless terrorists, the US, has done around the world over the years, I wouldn't put it past the US to have not only put the rebels up to it but also supplied the "chemical" weapon.
And how do you think the US government, even say Obama, would act if hundreds of thousands or millions of Americans tried to rebel against the US government and their puppet masters... the ruling elite. Would the US government, would Obama, order weapons of mass destruction against us?
You don't think so? I suppose millions of rounds of hollow point bullets was ordered by our government for target practice or game hunting! There is only one reason for hollow point bullets...to ensure that whoever gets hit will never recover..no need to waste hospital space...cause you won't live after you get hit by one.
Our government would be no more "civilized" against it's civilians than that of Assad or any other failing state. And our state IS failing!!!
It fucking sucks what always happens to the first soldier over the bags and into no man's land. Don't forget the millions of men, women, and children who dug deep into their souls to muster the courage needed to charge into the ugly grinder of oppression. Thanks to them, each and every one of them, we do have the freedoms and joys now cherished. Don't fight on hate and fear, fight on hope and dreams.
The "Let's ignore Bush and Cheney for their premeditated murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent people, but let's prosecute Manning for pointing out yet more crimes of our government" thing is a professional courtesy, where government officials do not prosecute the previous administration's crimes, in the hope that, "If I don't prosecute the previous president and his administration, the next president won't prosecute me for the many crimes I will commit during my time as president."
Another, related example of this type of selective prosecution is the fact that our government is falling on Kevin Trudeau like a ton of judicial bricks, while completely ignoring Wall Street's crashing of our economy. Let's compare Trudeau's crimes with those of Wall Street:
1. Trudeau scoured the internet for every conceivable statement, rumor, and myth about what herbs cure what diseases. He copied all of that information into books titled, "Miracle Health Cures that 'They' Don't Want You To Know About," and without doing any fact checking, pretended that all of those statements, rumors, and myths were true. And then there is Trudeau's silly bullcrap about being a member of a "secret" organization of rich people who will, if you give Trudeau enough money, show you how to get rich. Bottom line: Trudeau is a con man who has made tens of millions of dollars taking unfair advantage of people who don't have their ducks in a row.
2. The thieves and con men who run Wall Street, on the other hand, stole trillions of dollars- not millions, but trillions- running America's entire economy into a ditch, got rewarded by Bush and Obama with a multi-trillion dollar "bailout" which really should have been ransom money, then cancelled Americans' ability to make money from their savings by lowering the interest rate on savings accounts and certificates of deposit to virtually nothing, raised interest rates on poor peoples' credit cards, and even today are still doing the same things that crashed our economy. The little 80 year-old lady who bags groceries at a store where I shop, has to work for minimum wage at that grocery store, because the thieves and con men on Wall Street stole her retirement money.
So, who does Obama's justice department decide to prosecute? Trudeau, of course.
Oh, if only Trudeau had gotten a Harvard, Yale, or Stanford MBA, or made friends with Wall Street thieves, he could have avoided all this unpleasantness, because they would have told him about "The Secret method That 'They' Don't Want You To Know; Stealing Your Way To Obscene Wealth, Volume II; Avoiding Prosecution."
The secret organization that I belong to will probably not appreciate my revealing the tippity-toppity secret of how to get away with thievery, but I am going to do it anyway. That is right, friends, I am Going Rogue!
Ok, here's the deal: the first thing the thief needs to do after stealing the money (and for another $19.98, I will also tell you how to steal the money), is to give 10% of the stolen money to congresspeople, the president, and the Justice Department. The congress part is easy: just write "Campaign Donation" on a paper bag, fill the bag with stacks of hundred dollar bills, and give it to each congressperson's chief of staff, and the chief of staff will remove his percentage and pass the rest on to the congressperson. (Most congresspeople are "team players," so don't worry about the increasing numbers of congresspeople who do not accept bribes.) Then find out the favorite charities of the president's cabinet members, and make similar donations in the cabinet members' names, so the charities know who to give the kickbacks to. Then do the same with the Justice Department.
And that is the "Secret 'They' Don't Want You To Know" about how thieves do business in America.
Thus you have what makes 'power' so tempting for so long a time, Mr. Abbot. Perhaps it is time to stop trying to stare down Goliath and simply turn around and ignore him for there is no 'power' without the masses consent, we are not statistics, we are alive, and we still have a choice.
We are the ones always just talikng about the bad government and the bad congress,
Yet we put them there. The system we have in place bows to unlimited contribution campaign funds.
We never set up a system were a majority of peoples voices are deciding law,
just apointees to create law. So if we want the masses to create law.
Maybe a system that bypasses the middleman?
Absolute power corrupts,never. Its never to late. Lol
One last one. He who sow it reaps it! Eventually.
Carson, when a society's choices have been so severely strictured that our "choices" perforce remind informed people of a huge celise around America, and the celise is constantly being made tighter and tighter by rich hypocrites who never wear a celise themselves, it is not as simple as just ignoring the power elite. If you ignore them, they will finish stealing the rest of our money and they will finish cancelling our constitution.
For instance, the impoverished little old lady who bags groceries in the store where I shop, never did anything to or about the government, so you could say that she ignored the government. And what did she get in return? She got our government's overt complicity in Wall Street stealing her retirement money. And if the government and the other thieves are further ignored, they will cut or completely cancel the minimum wage, so that little old lady won't be able to afford the dog food that she currently eats in order to stay alive. Then, I suppose, she will have to do what people in China did under Mao's "great" leap forward: she will be eating tree bark, grubs, and worms- anything just to try to fill her stomach, while the rich eat from pewter plates with golden utensils.
I wish I were exaggerating, but even a little study of political pathology clearly reveals the similarity between the sociopaths who have been ruining our government and our country, and the sociopaths who started the "communist" governments in Russia, China, and North Korea, as well as the sociopaths who turned Germany from a democracy into Nazi Germany.
During one of Obama's big speeches, I watched John Boehner's expression as he sat behind Obama, and during the entire speech, the only times that Boehner smiled was when Obama said the word "Fascist." Every time he heard that word "fascist," Boehner's face just lit up like a kid's face on Christmas morning. And look at how Beohner has voted, how he has obstructed our democracy wherever and whenever he could, and it becomes obvious that really, he would be happier in North Korea. And our other republican "leaders" are cut from exactly the same cloth. Do nothing, and Boehner and his fascist friends will walk all over you.
Quote douglas m:We are the ones always just talikng about the bad government and the bad congress,
Yet we put them there.
douglas m ~ Oh, contraire my friend. You can make that argument for President Obama; but the key shill in this Patriot Act and foreign illegal war fiasco was President George W. Bush. WE DID NOT PUT HIM THERE!! That man was appointed illegally by the Supreme Court. The mishandling of ballots (ie election fraud) committed in Florida--the state where his brother was Governor--is what got the Supreme Court's attention. The rich owners of the Supreme Court are the ones who put the Kingpins of this high crime fiasco into power, not We the People. As the after election counting showed, We the People elected Al Gore.
Also it was SCOTUS that legalized bribery, not We the People. However, it is We the People who are going to have to fix this mess. On that we agree!
Nothing would please me more than to see Bush and Chenney go to prison for the rest of thier miserible lives. They made themselves and their cronies filthy rich off the 'American Blood' of our troops without regard or remorse. Really, they sould of been Hanged for their crimes. If that had been you or me? And now a libriary put up for them...a slap in the face to all that died in a senseless war that should have NEVER happened. Bush even fixed his own election, and spinelessness of Gore and others allowed him to get away with it. With leaders like Bush, I'm ashamed to be called an American. Its no wonder those middle-east coutries can't stand U.S.!!!
I'm disappointed you didn't have more dialog with "Bob", apparently a regular caller that you call cynical.
I happen to agree with Bob. We SHOULD be investigating 911, we should be investigating Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeldt, etc., etc. for illegal actions that took us into a horrendous war that destroyed the lives of so many people. Unless we expose and deal with the CRIMES, we will continue to have the same ROT and CORRUPTION in government. We should all be demanding a pardon for Bradley Manning, and stop criminalizing whistleblower Snowden.
Of course that are plenty of crackpot theories about 911, but ANYONE can do enough research to realize there are also serious questions and issues that need to be pursued. I believe it's very possible Bush & Co. were aware of and even involved in 911. WHY WON'T YOU EVEN CONSIDER TALKING TO THE SERIOUS EXPERTS WHO HAVE RAISED ISSUES? It should not be difficult to identify those that have competent, legitimate credentials and have them on the program to discuss their views.
There is a difference between "cynicism" and "realism".