Could we actually have peace with Iran?

On Thursday, Secretary of State John Kerry met with Iran's Foreign Minister, for the first substantive talks in a generation. Tensions between the U.S. and Iran have been strong since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, and no secretary of state has met with an Iranian counterpart since 2007. And, for almost three decades, relations have been strained further by economic sanctions imposed on Iran over their nuclear program.

Thursday's meeting followed recent statements by Iran's new president, Hassan Rouhani, who pledged to resolve his nation's nuclear standoff with the West. Those statements, and Thursday's meeting, point to a possible end to ongoing Western hostility towards Iran. Secretary Kerry said that the talks with Foreign Minister Javad Zarif were “very constructive,” but said more meetings would be needed to “find a way to answer the questions that people have about Iran's nuclear program.”

Iranian President Rouhani and Foreign Minister Zarif both stressed that Iran has no intention of developing a nuclear weapon, and only wants the right to develop nuclear energy for “peaceful, civilian uses.” However, the United States and Israel still question Iran's motives. After the meeting, Secretary Kerry told reporters, “Needless to say, one meeting and a change in tone, which was welcome, doesn't answer those questions yet, and there is a lot of work left to be done.”

But, the meeting marks the first real progress towards peace with Iran in three decades. Once again, discussion, diplomacy, and economic sanctions are proving to be more effective than military threats. The people of Iran are suffering under those sanctions, and it would be monumental for them – and for the world – if we were finally able to resolve these long-standing international tensions.

Comments

RACadmin 7 years 44 weeks ago
#1

Thom wrote: "The people of Iran are suffering under those sanctions, and it would be monumental for them – and for the world – if we were finally able to resolve these long-standing international tensions."

I second that

JohnLemessurier's picture
JohnLemessurier 7 years 43 weeks ago
#2

Tensions between the U.S. and the Iranian People have been strong not just since the 1979 Islamic Revolution but rather since the 1953 Iranian coup d'état, orchestrated by the United States and England to prevent the Iranian Prime Minister from nationalizing "our" oil.

Additionally, it is curious that " Israel still questions Iran's motives" as far as nuclear energy development goes since Israel itself secretly developed nuclear weapons and still has never officially admitted to having them.

When there are hypocrites at the table, negotiations will stall.

johnbest's picture
johnbest 7 years 43 weeks ago
#3

What a breath of fresh air. We have had nothing but bumbling, authoritarian whack jobs for president since Jimmy Carter. We finally have peace loving president like President Eisenhower. He was sick of war and saw first hand the results of two world wars. When he took office he ended the Korean War immediately. Peace talks had been dragging on for years.

michaelmoore052's picture
michaelmoore052 7 years 43 weeks ago
#4

Right. They need a Walmart.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 7 years 43 weeks ago
#5

In reply to yesterday: DAnneMarc, Palindromedary, sandlewood. Hey I want progressive change just as much as all of you and if it's realistic that the Green Party can defeat the Teapublicans, count me in. However if this is not possible because of big money dictating things why not continue to fight for change by expanding the Congressional Progressive Caucus Senator Sanders founded in 1991?....infiltration!

I've always believed getting money out of politics is of utmost importance but the way I see it the 2014 midterms are fast approaching and why not try to dump the House tea in the harbor with the power of the vote. We can't let wankers like the Kochs and their money deflate our efforts and passion for this correction. I know, easier said than done, but so is getting the money out of politics.

By the way the progressive change I want is pretty much what Huey Long and his Share Our Wealth Society believed in. Check it out at www.HueyLong.com Click on "Share Our Wealth" in the grey box!.....if anyone is interested!

Palindromedary, I have friends who believe like you that bloody revolution is inevitable, but honestly don't you think once was enough if we have other options? However if the billionaires continue to concentrate our wealth into their own pockets then I agree with you, history shows us clearly what will happen. We hungry Barbarians will cross the frozen river........

hellostan 7 years 43 weeks ago
#6

-the people of Iran, suffer -strong tensions between U.S. and Iran, -we talked to Iran. yeah-so ! so what ! how about dealing with the killing of our citizens in Chicago! how about helping Americans! were You proud to be an American when CNN broadcast (world wide) interviews with the victims of Katrina. comparable to 3rd-world people. how about taking care of Americans & America, 1st. Iran. Look how they treat women. -how they think about gays. if my house & neighborhood were on Fire at the same time several houses were on Fire (a few miles away). i'd focus my efforts on 1-my house. 2-neighbors nearest me. and HeLp. in 'that' order. i wouldn't try saving people miles from me, BEFORE saving my family and then my neighors. (especially when the people miles away from me- don't want me to interfere. and -i thought Ike was a WARRIOR 1st. and -there's been NO good president since Carter? "i Like a good sense of humor". and -is that the ReaL michaelmoore ? (i enjoy shopping at Walmart). Thom, you are so intelligent. it's a privilege for ME to Learn from YOU on TV. i do wish, that you'd help us ALL, in Leading America. i FIND, that i have to weigh your "one-sided-thinking" against the "narrow-thinking" of Limbaugh, Beck and others.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 7 years 43 weeks ago
#7

With nukes being mutually assured suicide, why would any country with half a brain waste money on them anymore anyway? Use one and somebody is going to use one back. It would seem Iran has better things to do with their money, but maybe I'm wrong?

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 7 years 43 weeks ago
#8

Isn't it AMAZING what can be accomplished when we "think before we speak" and "use our words INSTEAD of our fists"!?!?
When you get down to it, all anyone wants in life is to love, be loved, and live a healthy and happy life. It's selfish greed and selfrighteous pride that causes man to behaive with such ill will towards his brother.

We must resist the urge for power!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 43 weeks ago
#9

MMmmNACHOS ~ Profoundly accurate. I am in awe!

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 7 years 43 weeks ago
#10

Hello my friends! Been awhile, but I'm back. So here's my two cents, folks.

I think it's great that Kerry and Rouhani acted like grown-ups and reached a truce. However I have to agree with John's comment: "When there are hypocrites at the table, negotiations will stall." And the U.S. is the biggest hypocrite of them all! Why aren't the U.S.'s nuclear weapons ever the issue? What gives Almighty Americans the right to hang onto their ridiculously huge arsenal of nukes while dictating who else can or can't have them? Just who in the bloody hell do these guys (O-bomb-ah, Kerry ad nauseam) think they are anyway?! The U.S. punished Iran with harsh economic sanctions for (allegedly) having or developing nukes, but the U.S has more of those damn things than anyone!! And that's my two cents.

It's good to be back, stirring up more trouble... Ha-ha! Peace, love an' grooviness.... - Aliceinwonderland

artfulme's picture
artfulme 7 years 43 weeks ago
#11

Iran is in deep trouble. It's dependencies, Syria and Palestinians, are realizing that with Iran's terrible economic crisis, due largely to the US/UN sanctions. Iran's support in arms and finances are due to diminish severely. Iran's economy requires a raprachment with the US and the West for lifting sanctions and other penalties that have had such dire consequences at home.

You now have the Palestinians. with their own diminished expectations of continuing aid & arms from both Syria and Iran, beginning to have much more serious talks with Israel for a permanent peace and establishment of a Palestinian state and acceptance of israel's right to exist...and be left alone. They are getting closer to an agreement...that will cancel the nitro glycerin underlying the middle east for so long.

With or without US help. Egyptians have thrust aside any Islamist-controlled state in favor of a moderate more secular government and country.

And, Russia has now come to OWN the internecine religious wars in Syria with Syria now to give up all of its chem weapons to the UN for destruction. The 2 rebel groups in Syria contain a powerful Islamic-centered gang that would make Syria into a radical islamic state. And, there is Assad. The other rebel group seems to more supportive of a moderate, less Islamic state. It will not be our problem anymore.

All credit to Obama. Seems like a miracle man to me.

P.S. I was in favor of a quick military strike to oust his chem weaponry; now Obama has awakened the world and the conclusion is great for the USA! Great foreign policy maneuvering!! Rissia now carries the burden of Syria with the UN looking over its shoulder!

Again, Obama led the way and prevails. Assures his legacy even aside from the first comprehensive health care for all americans!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 43 weeks ago
#12

Aliceinwonderland ~ Thank God!!! i'm so happy to see you back. I was so sorrowfull to see you go. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I so look forward to fighting the good fight with you. Please hang in there!! It hasn't been the same with out you!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 7 years 43 weeks ago
#13
Quote 2950-10k:Palindromedary, I have friends who believe like you that bloody revolution is inevitable, but honestly don't you think once was enough if we have other options?
If we had other valid options then of course it would be much better. But I don't really think we do have other valid options anymore. Now, if Bernie Sanders ran for President and we all got over our fraidy cat mentality about not voting for anyone but yet another Democrat then we might have a chance to avoid violence in the future. Of course, there would be the possibility that the ruling elite would try to threaten Bernie Sanders to play the game their way...would he? I don't think he would give in...then, of course, the ruling elite would most likely stage another lone gunman false flag. Maybe Bernie knows this and maybe that is the reason he doesn't run for President. If not Bernie Sanders...then Jill Stein or any of the other third party candidates...as long as it breaks up and shakes up the good ole boy two party stranglehold they have on the country. It would send a very strong message to both parties that the American people were not going to be held hostage by their rigged system anymore. But if you keep voting for Democrats, they will realize that they have us right where they want us.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 7 years 43 weeks ago
#14

Welcome back Aliceinwonderland! And I certainly agree with what you said. Your 2 cents worth is worth a great deal more than a mere 2 cents that's for sure!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 43 weeks ago
#15

Aliceinwonderland ~ Before i turn in I would ask you one favor. Yesterday were three posts by a very distinguished gentlemen named Loren Bliss. If you have the time could you read his posts and comment on them. I would be most interested in your opinion. Take your time we have all weekend. Again, it is great to see you back. Thanks!

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 7 years 43 weeks ago
#16

Ohmygod DAnneMarc- you blow me away! I missed you too, brother. Believe it or not, since exiting the blog last March I've taken many peeks just to see what y'all were up to, and enjoyed reading so much of it. Anyway, just know the feeling is mutual. We may not agree 100% of the time; but we disagree often enough to keep it lively and interesting. And I love you too. Let's keep on keepin' on! - Alice

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 7 years 43 weeks ago
#17

Hey Palin, you rock. - Alice

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 7 years 43 weeks ago
#18

DAnneMark, I'm happy to honor your request. Loren Bliss is one of my favorite commentators on this blog. So many of his observations and perspectives resonate with me, and strongly. He can sound pretty grim at times, and he sure doesn't mince words! This may be unsettling to some. But hey, the subject matter ain't pretty. This guy simply calls it as he sees it. He's a keen observer of our socioeconomic predicament and in my opinion, one of the most perceptive, articulate contributors on this blog. I find Mr. Bliss's comments refreshingly honest, even as unpleasant as the subject generally is. I oughta pay his website (or is it Facebook?) another visit sometime, just to see what's rockin' his boat nowadays.

Anyway it's late, so I'll check it out tomorrow and get back to you. Sweet dreams, my friend... - Aliceinwonderland

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 7 years 43 weeks ago
#19

Before I sign off, I just wanted to tell Mr. 10-K that I checked out Huey Long. WOW, we could sure use a reincarnation of that guy right about now! And what an eye opener. Reading about the socio/economic issues of the early 20th Century, through the years of Mr. Long's political career, it's deja-vu; the issues sound sooo familiar! Like, haven't we seen this movie before? And now, as it was back then, anyone with that man's vision and charisma had better watch his back.

I'll never look at that "Share our Wealth; Every Man A King" button quite the same way again. Thanks, 10-K! - Alice I.W.

Kend's picture
Kend 7 years 43 weeks ago
#20

Sorry to break up your little love fest, but is it just me. Every time this adminasrtration runs into trouble with the debt ceiling, the economy, Syria etc. it comes up with a deflection to some crap like Iran. Maybe Obama should cancel his bowling plans with Hassan this afternoon and work on getting jobs for Americans. I am sure students who just graduated with thousands of dollars of debt would appreciate it.

Do not be fooled this Iranian snake is just a different color.

oh by the way did you hear. The Canadian ice fields have increased in size by 920,000 sq/miles In the last few years. Al Gore couldn't be wrong could he. Noooooooo the Science must be wrong. Could you imagine after spending trillions on global warming we found out we where wrong. All the health care and education we could bought with that money. The bridges and roads we could repaired. I must have read it wrong.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 7 years 43 weeks ago
#21

Aliceinwonderland: It sure is great to have you back. I always looked forward to your comments and can now have that same pleasure once again.

I totally agree with you about Huey Long.....his platform blew me away. He was a true visionary with what I believe to be the answers to the mess we're in. Indeed the same socioeconomic issues of the early 20th century have festered once again and if we don't find a way to permanently legislate against greed the disease will never have a cure.

By the way, I wish the slogan read, "Every Person a King," I've always felt a little uneasy with the "Every Man a King", thing!

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 7 years 43 weeks ago
#22

C'mon Kend, give peace a chance!

Hey, quick question, how are going to pay off the Republican driven war debt if we don't raise the debt ceiling?

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 43 weeks ago
#23

Kend ~ You make a good point about Iraq. Why worry about what's going on there when the government here is about to shut down? After all, it looks like nothing meaningful was accomplished anyway. What's happening in Washington over the budget is soooo much more important right now.

However I strongly disagree that any money spent on the environment is wasted. Every penny is well spent. If you haven't noticed--and I think you haven't--the environment is the most important thing we have. Without it we are no more. It is money spent on the military that is a total waste and might as well just be flushed down the toilet. The increase in Canadian ice means nothing. The south polar cap is increasing too in some places. The problem isn't just decreasing ice--it's massive change to the surface of the planet. We have to learn why it is happening and how to adapt to it to survive. Isn't the survival of the human race worth trillions of dollars?

PLSzymeczek's picture
PLSzymeczek 7 years 43 weeks ago
#24

The link to www.itallbeganwithreagan.com is broken.

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 7 years 43 weeks ago
#25

Welcome back ALICEINWONDERLAND!!! It has been damn near a year since you last posted and signed off. As you can see by all those welcoming you bacj, you have been missed. I look forward to your insight and perspective on the day to day social and political issues that are discussed on this blog.
Pluse it will be nice to have one more person to thrash KEND with! JUST KIDDING KEND...we lo..lov...Well you know what I'm trying to say kend. ;)

Again glad your back AIW.

Cheers
MMmmmNachos

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 43 weeks ago
#26

Aliceinwonderland ~ Thanks! I look forward to hearing your opinion. Frankly I think he is right; however, I don't know if I would put all the blame on President Obama for the decline in the wealth of the middle class. I think this goes far beyond him, and really started with President Ronald Wilson (666) Reagan and has been steadily followed by every administration since then. Like you pointed out about the 30's and Huey Long none of this is really new and its more of history repeating itself than anything that can be placed at the feet of any one person.

Administrations aside we all know that it is the extremely wealthy class in this country who are pulling all the strings. None of this would be happening without their blessings and guidance. The politicians are just puppets.

On the other hand I believe Mr. Bliss is 100% right about the ruling class misleading President Obama to discredit the African American community. I agree they fear the unifying and leadership potential of this group and want to do everything they can to discredit and disempower them. I also believe that they will fail. The source of the strength of the African American community is far beyond the reach of the elite. The harder they try to attack them the stronger that source of strength becomes. There is little that can be done to these people that has not already been done.

A far wiser course of action would be to assimilate the African American. Treat them completely as equals and share opportunity with them. Invest in their community. That way they become an equal part of the establishment. As such, they no longer represent any kind of threat to the elite. Sometimes blind hatred blinds people to the simplest most effective solutions to their problems. In effect, hatred makes people stupid.

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 7 years 43 weeks ago
#27

BINGO!!! DING DING DING!!!YAHTZEE!!!

You said it DANNEMARC. The survival of mankind depends on a maintainning enviromental harmony. Man is merely a custodian...Mother Nature runs the show. Its basic laws of physics and common scence...The more we meddle with Mother Nature and ignor reality the more we doom our own wellbeing.
That being said I am not so green as to believe that Man is going to "Save the Planet". That's pure self righteous egotistical hokum!
As the late great George Carlin often said; "The Earth was around for a loooooooooong long time before man became a factor. There were fire storms, ice storms, massive floods, harsh periods of drought, Polar shifts, Solar Flares, etc, etc...and Man thinks he's gonna save the planet!?!?Some day the Earth is going to shake us off like a bad case of fleas, and then...It will be the Earth plus plastic".

So yes Repurpose, Recycle, Reuse; Stop pumping the air and water and food full of harmful pollutions that compromise all of life's wellbeing. Yes the Earth does have its own agenda, regardless of man's own doing, just consider Pompai, and that culture didn't have massive factories spewing millions of tons of pollution, or billions of automobiles burning fossil fuels, and Monsantos, ConAg, Dow, and DewPont spraying mass amounts of poisonous chemicals that essentially kill off pollinators (bees, ants, butterflies, birds), just to kill weeds and increase crop yields. Nor was there a world population of 6 billion wasteful consumers....But Mother Nature still had to "fart" and she did so by blowing up a mountain (Volcano). Theres nothing man could do to stop her...Nor should we try! I know if I needed to pass some gas and someone tried to stop me there would be hell to pay.

So yes, a BIG YES, we do need to stop denying reality, and start changing our way of thinking so that people and planet last. We need to face tough questions, like; is modern technology making for a better world???The right answer is "yes and no", and here enlies the tricky balancing act. Along with facing tough questions...What is more a simple, yet "full measure" plan is to start local. Here in my town, population 190k (fulltime residents), we have two 100% organic community farms that grow and sell for the tri-county area, which consists of just over 300k people. The unfortunate issue though is that about 2/3rds of certain crops is shipped off to the N.East, and Midwest. And I have talked to many of the people that work for these farms, and they say that the demand is growing for more local Organic Produce, Dairy, Eggs, etc. More and more people are becoming consciencious about what they are eating; not just where it comes from but right down to the puritey of the seeds, and animale raising practices.
Also my county is a leader in setting the "green living" bar high when it comes to sustainable development practices. Of course it is constantly under attack by large profit by any means necessary development companies, but for the past 20+ years we have managed to ward off those that want to cut corners and just clear cut thousands of achers to build another hamoginized community with another Wal-Mart and Star Bucks, (Which we already have 5 Wal-Marts, 2 Sams Clubs, and a Starbucks on practically every corner, not to leave out all the corporate owned franchises, like Jiffy Lube, Tire Kingdom, Domino's etc that though they pride themselves on "creating jobs" they destroy the local small mom and pop buisnesses that once thrived and brought a uniquness to my home town pre Walton Boom!

Suze O's picture
Suze O 7 years 43 weeks ago
#28

During the reign of the Shah, the US was busy supplying him with NUCLEAR ENERGY TECHNOLOGY. The deal was that Iran would develop such energy to free up their oil fields for exploitation (by the company that is known today as BP). When the Iranian Revolution nationalized their oil fields with the intention that such resources would be used for its own benefit, the US govt decided to punish it - this is why Dick Cheney has never forgiven them. The only time they have considered a bomb was when they were worried about Saddam possessing them - after all, he was the one who killed millions of them in a bloody war. An investigation found that the Iranians have not worked on a bomb since 2003. What happened in 2003? We invaded Iraq and found out Saddam had indeed destroyed his nukes.

Iran, despite plenty of oil, has no capable refining facilities, so it winds up shipping its crude out to be refined into gasoline, then reimporting it at a loss, then subsidizing it so the population can afford it. This is a huge drain on their economy. The idea to switch to nuclear ENERGY for more domestic power was to free up the crude to be sold on the market for income for the Iranian economy. It can be refined by the buyers. Hence the sanctions against Iran selling its oil on the market. This has nothing to do with a bomb - that idea is kept as propaganda in case we need a casus belli for more greedy reasons. This is about starving the country, inciting the people to overthrow their regime (which seldom works, since they tend to "rally round the flag" instead), and (our) installing a puppet who would open the oil fields again. As is the case in all of the Middle East, this is about oil and corporate profits. If we were truly worried about nuclear bombs, we would be concentrating on Pakistan.

Kend's picture
Kend 7 years 43 weeks ago
#29

Nachos, yes I do. I don't mind getting trashed. Debate is healthy For all of us. I hate to admit to my right wing freinds that I learn a lot from you guys. ok well a little.

Alice nice to have ya back

Kend's picture
Kend 7 years 43 weeks ago
#30

DAnne you are missing my point there is no change to the tempatures of the planet. All recent Recent science is showing there is no global warming.

You are right though. We do need to no the truth so we can adapt to it. What ever it is.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 7 years 43 weeks ago
#31

Awww gosh guys, you're making me cry! The feeling's mutual.

Thank you NACHOS, so very much. I missed you too. Like I told DAnneMarc, throughout the many months of my abstinence I'd still take a peek now and then, just to see what y'all were up to.

Coming back, for me, was as spontaneous as backing out had been. Anything of consequence will have its moment, and it ain't always pre-planned. This blog has meant a lot to me, therefore I knew returning to it was a matter of when, not if. You guys are soul brothers. We might get on each other's nerves occasionally or lock horns over something, but it doesn't have to be such a big deal and we don't have to tear each other apart over it! The sense of connection we share transcends that. My take on it anyway.

It's great to be back. Blogs like this are a great way help generate connection, friendships, a sense of community... even among individuals who, in all likelihood, will never meet face-to-face. There are definite mental health benefits that can be derived from forums such as this. But most of all, it's fun and engaging. And we can learn from one another, maybe even extract a little humor from the depths of all this madness... All this while the elite 1% pull every trick they've had up their sleeves to keep us small fry isolated from each other, disempowered and confused... No wonder they've tried hijacking the Internet! (Yeah over our dead bodies...)

Anyway my friends, I am touched by all the welcoming messages you've sent. It's almost enough to make me feel like a schmuck though, for having left in the first place; not that that was ever your intention! You guys rock. - Aliceinwonderland

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 7 years 43 weeks ago
#32

DAnneMarc, there's a storm brewing here right now that has the lights flickering like crazy, so I better send this before we lose our power.

Having just read Mr. Bliss's posts, I still stand by everything I've said about him and his input, generally speaking. HOWEVER that doesn't put me in lockstep with the guy (or anyone, actually). While I agree with maybe 90+% of his opinions, observations, assessments and so forth, my sense of him is not only about the intelligence of his comments but about the emotion they convey as well. And from my perspective, there is no mistaking the depth of Mr. Bliss's anger and hatred towards the fascist plutocracy and its enablers, that which threatens us all. No argument there! But the amount of blame Mr. B places on President Obama is way overblown in my opinion. Our nation, economy et cetera were already in the toilet - or the seeds for that had already been planted - long before Obama took office. With all due respect to Mr. Bliss and the value of his input, I think that to some extent, the accuracy of his analyses has been compromised by the intensity of his emotions around the subject at hand. Hey, those thoughts and feelings are no stranger to me! But emotions can really cloud the picture. You guys know me well enough to be aware that I'm no big fan of Obama's! But to blame Obama to the extent Mr. B has done is wrong. It defies simple logic. However I agree that Obama has legislated like a corporatist puppet, that the loyalty he's shown "We The People" who elected him has been patchy at best and certainly, not something that would generate trust from anyone paying attention.

Aside from the irrational scapegoating of President Obama, I don't like seeing Thom Hartmann characterized as a mainstream pundit. Nobody holds more contempt for mainstream pundits than I do! But I have such huge respect and admiration for Thom, and have learned so much from him. It grates on me how some folks like to tear him down. From my point of view their anger is misdirected. Thom is not a pawn, nor is he a sell-out. Thom is not the enemy. He's got more integrity under his thumbnail than most commentators , like 999% in my opinion. If I recall correctly, he & Louise are the only talk show hosts who actually own the show and aren't beholden to some mainstream network. The guy is brilliant, well versed in more subjects than virtually anyone I've ever encountered, and he backs up everything he says with actual FACTS. I don't believe this is anything to be taken for granted either. I'm sure Thom has thick enough skin and has been around the block enough times to not be affected by such dart throwing aimed in his direction, and doesn't need me to defend him. But I defend him anyway because it feels almost like my own sense of reality is under attack. No I don't take it personally; I'm not that stupid or that juvenile; but it rattles my cage. (Sorry Mr. B!) As you've pointed out, DAnneMarc, Ronald Reagan laid out the foundation for much of the disaster now upon us. His policies had a horrible impact on the economy, the environment and our quality of life in this country. Been downhill ever since Reagan's reign in the oval office.

I strongly share your perspective on what the robber barons are doing to us, along with its redundancy from a historical perspective. What's more, I never voted for Obama without some reservations. I saw the warning signs. But like Mr. B, I viewed him as the lesser-evil candidate of the choices available to us.

Anyway D.A.Marc, there's my take. Very similar to yours. - Aliceinwonderland

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 7 years 43 weeks ago
#33

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Thanks kend. Hats off, back atcha. - AIW

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 43 weeks ago
#34

Aliceinwonderland ~ Thanks Alice. You've confirmed my thoughts and I fully agree. Your input is MUCH appreciated. Much luck weathering the storm! Stay safe. We need you!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 7 years 43 weeks ago
#35

How can we have peace with Iran or anyone else if we don't have peace with ourselves? We can't even have peace with ourselves as long as there are those who would greedily gobble up everything from everyone else and who set an example on how to use guns to steal from others (ie: the US Military).

Those who have been driven to desperation will strike out against their oppressors one day and they won't succeed unless they have the ability, en masse, to fight back against tyranny. Those tyrannous forces realize this and have been trying to use whatever means they can to remove those abilities to fight back...including brainwashing the masses. These tyrants own the media..the means of widely disseminated propaganda. They own our politicians, both Republican and Democrats. And their primary method is to use fear combined with directing that fear against various relatively minor events, possibly staged and orchestrated by them to begin with. I don't believe that MKULTRA is dead..just morphed into another obscure name. I say "Relatively minor" when compared to all the other deaths caused every year by auto accidents, wrong medical prescriptions, misdiagnosed medical conditions, profit motivated insurance death panels, and even sending our troops to die (and kill innocent civilians), etc. None of those things gets the focused attention in the news media as a few staged incidents designed for maximum psychological effect.

If you don't believe that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" and think the solution is to ban all guns (or even just ban the automatic or semi-automatic weapons like, for instance AK-47s, then you should watch the most recent episode of the TV series "Elementary". And take a good look at that bottle of "milk" in the refrigerator in the show..it is key to the plot.
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And then check this out:
"Click, Print, Gun: The Inside Story of the 3D-Printed Gun Movement"

By Erin Lee Carr

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/click-print-gun-the-inside-story-of-the...
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Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 7 years 43 weeks ago
#36

DAnneMarc, I was just re-reading your post about Lorin Bliss's comments and there's one thing in there that puzzles me. You wrote, regarding the status of African Americans: "they no longer represent any kind of threat to the elite. " I was surprised to see that comment because it seems so much of your own post, previous to that statement, would contradict it. Particularly where you say "I agree they [the elite] fear the unifying and leadership potential of this group and want to do everything they can to discredit and disempower them." You go on to say "I also believe that they will fail. The source of the strength of the African American community is far beyond the reach of the elite. The harder they try to attack them the stronger that source of strength becomes". And I'm 100% with you there! From my own perspective, black Americans (poor ones in particular) have had an enormous impact on not only American culture, but world culture. Hip Hop started in the funkiest back alleys and poorest neighborhoods of this country and has spread to virtually every corner of the world!

The power elite here wouldn't go to the trouble of trying to discredit and disempower African Americans if they weren't threatened; enough to feel the need to minimize their impact on society and culture. The power to influence vast numbers of people is something to be reckoned with, no matter how humble its place of origin. - Alice I.W.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 43 weeks ago
#37

Aliceinwonderland ~ Thanks for bringing up African Americans again. When we blame others for using chemical warfare against their own people; yet, we overlook the subtle chemical warfare happening right in front of our face in US cities all over the country. I forgot to mention that the elite have been doing this in the African American community for years in the form of Crack cocaine. Just another tool in the elites arsenal of genocide. It actually fuels a underground business that causes black to kill black. How devious!

To explain you query, I meant that if the African Americans were assimilated into white culture by being treated with equal rights and equal opportunity, then they would be a part of the establishment and no longer have reason to challenge the elite--at least anymore than anyone else. Perhaps I was wrong. Perhaps this is not possible because the agenda of the elite is to subjugate everyone equally to poverty and despair. I constantly give other people the benefit of the doubt like Thom does. Please excuse my naivete.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 7 years 43 weeks ago
#38

I went to see the movie "Lee Daniels, the Butler"...finally. Great movie...except it gives way too much credit to Presidents like Reagan and Nixon and Bush..I think. Be warned, however, they use the N word. But, since this movie was supposed to be presented in the eyes of Cecil Gaines, the White House Butler that outlasted 8 Presidents over 3 decades, I guess there was a lot of territory to cover in just one movie. Great acting by all especially Forest Whitaker..who played Cecil Gaines. The movie starts out showing how the blacks were treated since the 1920s and had one scene where I just wanted to rip that bastards (the white son of the plantation owner who raped Cecil's mother then shot Cecil's father who dared to stare at the man afterwards.

Another really great movie, I thought, was "Prisoners"..that movie had some really great acting by Jake Gyllenhaal, Hugh Jackman, Paul Dano, and others. This movie kept me guessing right up to the end and kept me guessing even after the end...although, it was pretty obvious what would happen next.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 7 years 43 weeks ago
#39

We all (the N word) now!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 7 years 43 weeks ago
#40

By the way, if anyone has been watching Breaking the Set...they have been putting on various "side shows" introducing various "artists"...like rap singers. Maybe this appeals to some young people, after all Abby Martin is young for sure, but I personally think this detracts from her show....for us old people anyway. I always switch channels when they do that. I'd much rather hear Abby Martin on the issues rather than trying to be someone introducing these various groups.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 43 weeks ago
#41

Palindromedary ~ Rap singers? You should know by now that all that glitters isn't gold. When you have those nasty sponsors to feed you have to make all kinds of concessions. Give the girl a break and check out something else for a few minutes.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 7 years 43 weeks ago
#42

DAnneMarc: I don't think RT has sponsors to feed. Have they ever advertized anything other than their own content?

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 7 years 43 weeks ago
#43

My hunch is that most blacks wouldn't want to assimilate into "white culture". However the idea of a dominant culture more inclusive of various sub-cultures (including theirs) might be more appealing.

I'm not convinced that crack is the creation of elites, although I certainly can appreciate where your theory comes from. However our privatized, for-profit Prison Industrial Complex is another matter. The number of blacks incarcerated in this country (let alone Death Row) is WAY out of proportion to their numbers in the general population. And let's not forget, the so-called "war on drugs" is used as a means to oppress black folks in particular. Those people get targeted way more than the rest of us, despite the fact that blacks use drugs to get high no more than anyone else.

Anyway thanks for the explanation, Marc. Makes more sense now... - Alice I.W.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 43 weeks ago
#44

Palindromedary ~ Interesting question. I wish I could give an interesting opinion. However, quite frankly, I don't get RT TV here. If I did I might watch more TV than I do. If you can find out if it is available in expanded regular cable in the SF Bay area and let me know the channel that would be great. As it is I spend most of my time with the box off. The few chances I get to see RT TV is here with you guys; or, whenever you post a youtube link.

If you are right about it having no sponsors then I would assume that the next logical reason for the hip hop music bits would be to appeal to their demographic base. Not only is Amy young but their research must show that their demographic is comprised mostly of young people. Go figure! I guess you're not as old as you think you are.

By the way, look at it this way, If Amy, and her show content, are really appealing to that younger demographic that is great news. That means that the younger generation is more aware of the con of the elites than most older people are. Thats great news for the future. Don't you agree?

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 43 weeks ago
#45

Quote Aliceinwonderland:My hunch is that most blacks wouldn't want to assimilate into "white culture". However the idea of a dominant culture more inclusive of various sub-cultures (including theirs) might be more appealing.

Aliceinwonderland ~ I suppose that would depend on what we mean by 'assimilate.' If we are talking about the socio-economic level than I totally disagree. I have lived all my life in an African American community. There is resentment amongst younger black men and women and the uneducated about white middle class America; however, amongst the vast majority of educated and adult blacks I have found a strong desire to succeed. That doesn't necessarily mean 'to become' white middle class as much as simply 'to become as' white middle class and live in harmony with white people as equals while maintaining a black identity and culture. Remember, there is nothing wrong with wanting to be treated equally. That is a common desire that we all share. That is all I am saying. Equal rights and equal opportunity for all is a goal we should all aspire to. Perhaps 'assimilate' is a poor choice of words.

By the way, in defense of those 'younger black men and women and the uneducated' that I mentioned above, I should also mention that it is this same disdain for the status quo of the middle class that is also rejected amongst the younger white men and women and the uneducated as well. This is not a 'black' phenomenon at all. This problem happens in all members of the American culture and all subcultures that lived in this country for at least three generations. That's the time I calculate that it takes to fully destroy what remains of a people's original culture and replace it with the artificial American culture. This is an American problem. It is related to the fact that the commercial media and society causes a deep resentment in people who have to work hard and study just to be eligible to participate in it. These victims--if you will--reject both the social goals and the means to achieve those goals in society. If you can put yourself into their shoes--and we all have at one time or another--who can blame them?

As far as crack is concerned I agree with your assessment. The for-profit Prison Industrial Complex is obviously a means to attack and subjugate the black community. Crack helps make that possible, however, it is no easy matter to prove that crack is an intentional warfare weapon and I certainly have no proof myself. If anyone else on this blog does have any to offer it would be appreciated. The only reason I mention crack in that way is because of my recollection of how it and AIDS appeared on the scene shortly after President Ronald Wilson (666) Reagan's regime began. It was just too much of a coincidence for me a brush off that easily. AIDS was an answer to the prayers of a certain Jerry Falwell. As far as crack is concerned? I don't know if you've ever learned about how they used to make free base out of cocaine. I was told that it is very difficult process--time consuming, expensive, and sometimes a huge waste of money. Now all of a sudden, rock is made cheaper than the source, the cocaine itself. It is impossible to produce this stuff the way it is claimed. I can't believe that this technique was discovered or invented anywhere other than a high tech pharmaceutical company with the help of the federal government resources. The reason is obvious. Didn't Reagan declare a full blow out war on drugs right after the advent of crack. It is my belief that crack was the 9/11 false flag of the 80's. AIDS, its sister chemical warfare weapon, was used to attack groups of people seen as threats to the establishment. People without families and with good income who have the spare time and resources to attack effectively.

The government isn't going to announce a chemical weapons attack. They aren't going to use the military to deploy it. Do you really think any government is stupid enough to use a chemical weapon in the form of a bomb with its name on it? Oh, yeah, I forgot about Syria, Iraq, and Israel. Of course, Syria and Iraq didn't get away with it too long did they? Israel only is getting away with it because the US is aiding and abetting their crimes. The US know better than to do that themselves. If they did, they never would have gotten away with it this long.

On the other hand maybe I'm just paranoid. However, I have found that my first instinctual response to any situation is usually correct. I usually regret not following my gut response. Other than instinct I have nothing else to offer. Sorry.

http://newsone.com/2033054/black-urban-legends-crack-black-community/

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 7 years 43 weeks ago
#46

DAnneMarc:Actually, that's Abby not Amy...Abby Martin and she has a very good and very rebellious, against entrenched authority, show. She'll go after Obama or any other fake Democrats as much as she'll go after any scum bag Republican. It looks like you can only get (Russia Today) RT on DishTV. Cable or AT&T won't let FSTV, LinkTV, or RT channels fly on their networks. I believe it is more political than anything. They don't want the people to hear the truth.

Thom Hartmann show is on both FSTV and RT. I didn't think cable carries FSTV..maybe I'm wrong on that one???

They have some really cute women on RT...I'm not as old as I sometime pretend ;-}

Man, that sure was a lot of wind and rain!!! I'm still soggy.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 7 years 43 weeks ago
#47
Quote DAnneMarc: It is my belief that crack was the 9/11 false flag of the 80's. AIDS, its sister chemical warfare weapon, was used to attack groups of people seen as threats to the establishment.

I don't know about crack but AIDS sure looked like it was created in the lab and distributed in the injections the government was giving people in those target communities.

"As soon as homosexuals signed up as guinea pigs for government-sponsored hepatitis B vaccine experiments, they began to die with a strange virus of unknown origin. The hepatitis B experiments began in Manhattan in the fall of 1978; the first few cases of AIDS (all young gays from Manhattan) were reported to the CDC in 1979."

http://rense.com/general45/cant.htm

I believe I read Cantwell's book "Aids and the Doctors of Death" back when it first came out...but I forgot a lot of that stuff. It was odd how the AIDS virus turned up in every community around the world where they were giving Helpatitus-B shots back then.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 7 years 43 weeks ago
#48

DAnneMarc: Funny! I was just thinking about Gary Webb, reporter for the San Jose Mercury News who wrote the 3 part series "Dark Alliance", and the story of Freeway Ricky of South Central LA just before I clicked on your link. Was Gary Webb assassinated and made to look like a suicide...with TWO gunshot wounds to the head?

I'm really looking forward to the new movie coming out in 2014 called "Kill the Messenger" which is about Gary Webb.

http://www.movieweb.com/news/kill-the-messenger-begins-production-in-atl...

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 7 years 43 weeks ago
#49

RELAX, Marc! I think our "disagreement" is based more on semantics than on actual substance. I would be the last person to deny or minimize anyone's legitimate right to a piece of the pie, as in socioeconomic assimilation. I guess I had trouble with the "white" part of that phrase. My comment wasn't from a socioeconomic perspective so much as a cultural one.

Over the years I have steadfastly refused to accept any notion of whiteness and prosperity being synonymous, despite artificial barriers to prosperity faced by non-whites in this rigged, racist system of ours (which I am well aware of; and unlike so many white people, am not in denial over). Prosperity is one thing, "white culture" another... in my mind at least. But it seems to me that you & I agree on this more than you apparently think we do.

Take a deep breath, buddy! We're on the same page here.

You might not remember this because I mentioned it so long ago, but I grew up in Oakland. I went to Castlemont High School. (Does that ring a bell?) And I lived in the S.F. Bay Area the first thirty years of my life. So I am no stranger to black culture. It has had a huge impact on my music as well as my worldview.

Far as crack cocaine and AIDS are concerned, I tend to be skeptical of conspiracy theories without proof. But knowing the evil lurking behind the veil, I wouldn't put it past those fascists to wipe out "undesirables" via biological weaponry, or by any other means. Whether or not your hunches prove factually correct, they are well-founded. - Alice I.W.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 7 years 43 weeks ago
#50

Aliceinwonderland ~ Now that you mention it I do remember. Please pardon my faulty memory. Castlemont High School. I know that area quite well. Recently the school has been fixed up quite a bit. You might not recognize it. The demographics have stayed the same though. You certainly know what you are talking about. Sorry I forgot. You are right, we do agree on much. Much more than not. Peace!

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