"Something evil in our society..."

On Monday, 12 people were killed in a mass shooting in our nation's capital, and at least 8 others were injured. Within minutes of the first shots, hundreds of police and naval officers surrounded the Naval Sea Systems Command headquarters, and police shot and killed the lone gunman. Law enforcement officials said that the shooter, Aaron Alexis, was a former Navy reservist, and had been working for a military subcontractor. Officials believe he entered the Navy Yard complex using his access as a contractor, and immediately began firing on civilian employees.

As of Tuesday morning, no apparent motive has been announced, and officials were still investigating the shooting. The tragedy was the deadliest day in Washington, DC in more than 30 years, and it was a somber reminder of other recent mass shootings, like Sandy Hook. During and after Monday's horrific events, the chief medical officer of nearby Medstar Hospital, Dr. Janis Orlowski, provided updates on the status of many shooting victims.

In one of yesterday's news conferences, Dr. Orlowski shared an emotional plea with the nation, and said we must address the ongoing gun violence in our country. Dr. Orlowski said, “There's something evil in our society that we as Americans have to work to try and eradicate. I would like you to put my trauma center out of business. I really world. I would like to not be an expert on gunshots. Let's get rid of this.”

In a perfect summary of how many feel about countless gun deaths, Dr. Orlowski said, “This is not America. This is not Washington, D.C. This is not good.” There are no answers that can explain this type of senseless violence, but perhaps we will finally learn from this tragedy, and start asking the right questions. How many lives must be lost before we're willing to stop these shootings?

Comments

Vegasman56 9 years 11 weeks ago
#1

We have to say, Hey Wacky Wayne LaPierre, Where is the good guy with the gun to stop this idiot. This is one thing we have to think about, if everybody had a gun, or if every other person had a gun. How many O.K. Corral shootouts type will we have then.

smilodon1's picture
smilodon1 9 years 11 weeks ago
#2

I've noted you are referring to Wayne LoPierre as Wayne LowPeter. I love the new name.

I refer to the current crop of republicans in DC as republicanderthals and I've been unfriended twice on Facebook because of this. Oh, well.

I also refer to Reince Priebus as Rinse Pubis. It seems to fit his personality. Most people don't get it, though, because they don't know who he is.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 11 weeks ago
#3

But it is America, it's the American way. "Violence is as American as cherry pie", to quote H. Rap Brown.

It's the new American way, anyway. Our society has become thoughtless and wantonly nasty. Much like Columbine first made us aware of bullying we should be mindful that there's a lot of gratuitous bullying going on EVERYWHERE in society now, not only in high school. In fact, people are, these times, keeping an adolescant mentality permanently so we now never leave high school anymore. What we are seeing is a lot of Columbines repeated.

JohnLemessurier's picture
JohnLemessurier 9 years 11 weeks ago
#4

To understand why "Violence is as American as cherry pie" (as Mark Saulys appropriately quotes H. Rap Brown), we need to consider the building blocks from which our country was forged.

First there was the genocide of Native Americans so we could take over their land.The importation of Black slaves came next, to do the work necessary to build the "Land of the Free" where "all men are created equal." Then there was the exploitation of the poor whites from Europe who came here seeking a better life.

Consider our history of warfare. Since the inception of the United States of America we have been at war for almost 90% of our existence! (See http://jaxonbrooks.com/post/6799918865/trending-america-has-been-at-war-for-209-of-235-years)

It is no wonder that we are a violent nation because we have never been anything but. The solution? The United States of America needs to go through a twelve-step program, especially the part that requires making amends for prior errors. This would be a start to healing our violent national nature and maybe, just maybe forge a beginning to "form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, (and) insure domestic Tranquility..." Will this ever happen? HAH!

Geraldine Rieman 9 years 11 weeks ago
#5

The mentally ill used to be in institutions, not out on the streets with medication. The jails are full of mentally ill people.

Hans-Henning Muendel's picture
Hans-Henning Muendel 9 years 11 weeks ago
#6

Aside from your item here, Thom, and various newspaper reports and TV coverage of this horrific event, this morning I also listened to Sirius XM Progress - not sure who was hosting: and one item I have NOT heard anyone mentioning: with Aaron Alexis, the shooter, having heard voices compelling him to do harm to others (in the past), aside from paranoia, he may be schizophrenic - and thus with proper medication (which might take years to work out: I am the father of a schizophrenic daughter and her schizophrenic fiance: who both heard scary voices for years) might have been helped to lead a more 'normal' life, even if never completely free of concern.

I think Aaron 'fell through the cracks' in whatever medical system you have in the state(s) he lived in. I am in Canada, as are my above-mentioned relatives, who belong to a local chapter of the Schizophrenia Society, which have many support-group activities; and we belong to the relatives-support group.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 11 weeks ago
#7
Quote Geraldine Rieman:The mentally ill used to be in institutions, not out on the streets with medication. The jails are full of mentally ill people.

Geraldine Rieman ~ I think you hit the nail on the head. Obviously this man was suffering from issues. There is no sane motive to murder strangers at random. It is true that our culture helps to foster these tragedies; but, like you said the culture hasn't changed that much since Ronald Wilson (666) Reagan closed mental institutions. What has changed is that before Reagan's term mass shootings were unheard of. Go figure.

We need to address the root cause of this problem. Gun control alone won't work. We need to demand Medicare for all. Public funded health care including mental health. The wealthy don't want to bring back publicly funded mental institutions because they fear that it will lead to publicly funded health care and ruin their high rolling insurance corporations. We need to regain these institutions through the back door by demanding publicly funded health care first. The mental institutions will logically then follow.

In this case this reservist had access to VA benefits and still managed to fly under the wire. I wonder who dropped the ball in this case. There is no excuse. Too many of our vets are denied benefits in order to save the Pentagon money. It's truly tragic. I can't believe that he suddenly snapped without any warning signs. Usually, mass murder or suicide is the last cry for help; not, the first.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 11 weeks ago
#8
Quote Hans-Henning Muendel:Aside from your item here, Thom, and various newspaper reports and TV coverage of this horrific event, this morning I also listened to Sirius XM Progress - not sure who was hosting: and one item I have NOT heard anyone mentioning: with Aaron Alexis, the shooter, having heard voices compelling him to do harm to others (in the past), aside from paranoia, he may be schizophrenic - and thus with proper medication (which might take years to work out:

Hans-Henning Muendel ~ Thank you for confirming my suspicion. That was a very helpful tidbit of info. I wish your daughter and her fiance my best.

Carol R's picture
Carol R 9 years 11 weeks ago
#9

I'm glad guns don't kill people. Think of how bad each of the massacres, which we keep having, would be if they did.

Remember: "Guns don't kill people. People kill people."

Quite frankly, I'd rather be hit over the head with a board than have a person point a gun at me. Imagine a world where guns are not so easily available to everyone who wants to kill people? It does exist, just not in this country.

I lived overseas for 9 years and all my local friends couldn't understand why we can't pass some decent gun laws to prevent regular events like this. We are the laughing stock of the world for our attachment to guns. "Bowling for Columbine" by Michael Moore tells it all.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 11 weeks ago
#10
The Huffington Post

Quote Article: Aaron Alexis Heard Voices: Navy Yard Shooter Was Treated For Mental Health Issues:WASHINGTON -- U.S. law enforcement officials are telling The Associated Press that the Navy contractor identified as the gunman in the mass shootings at the Washington Navy Yard had been suffering a host of serious mental issues, including paranoia and a sleep disorder. He also had been hearing voices in his head, the officials said.

Aaron Alexis, 34, had been treated since August by the Veterans Administration for his mental problems, the officials said. They spoke on condition of anonymity because the criminal investigation in the case was continuing. The Navy had not declared him mentally unfit, which would have rescinded a security clearance that Alexis had from his earlier time in the Navy Reserves.

Family members told investigators that Alexis was being treated for his mental issues.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/17/aaron-alexis-heard-voices_n_3940187.html

crazy playa's picture
crazy playa 9 years 11 weeks ago
#11

When you adress our Fascist government I'll give up my guns. We have no choice but to hang on tightly to our weapons. Our government is corrupted to no end. Money and government have an agenda, and it aint too fluffy and cuddley.So Doc shut the hell up until you can give us a guarantee our government wont herd us and kill us. They probably got you to make this statement. Like the devils that used sandy hook as a gun control platform. No human connection for these kind of people.Just dead souls doing the bidding of others.

Dont dare come for my guns until something good and possitive has been done to remove the corrupt devils.

crazy playa's picture
crazy playa 9 years 11 weeks ago
#12

Because our government will kill us.

ScottFromOz 9 years 11 weeks ago
#13

What is "the evil in our society"? What society? Since Reagan and Thatcher, we have been moving towards a Randian Utopia where it's every man for himself and the Devil take the hindmost. Thatcher's philosophy was that "there is no such thing as society". I think that was her way of saying "I got mine. The rest of you can take a flying leap." It's a philosophy very dear to the 1%. This sentiment heaps bucketloads of scorn and abuse on those not fortunate enough to be born to wealthy, educated and connected parents. It is pure class warfare of the worst kind. Those left behind by our selfish culture, are understandably frustrated and angry. If the person has access to a firearm when they get to a tipping point, this is the very predictable result. Unfortunately, we are all complicit in this. We have continued to vote for politicians who espouse the most anti-social policies the 1% can dream up. The Tea Party are the extreme tip of this phenomenon, but it stretches right back to and through the Republicans and Democrats as well. If we want a civil society where we can be safe, we have to vote for that and stop drinking the Kool-Aid supplied by the 1% class warriors.

Loren Bliss's picture
Loren Bliss 9 years 11 weeks ago
#14

Until these shootings are recognized for what they are -- a deadly symptom of the fact we are subjects of the most viciously oppressive nation in the industrial world -- nothing (especially the forcible disarmament of legal firearms owners), will ever stop the carnage.

Indeed, forcible disarmament (and its reduction of the 99 Percent to mandatory pacifism and thus to compulsory victimhood), will only intensify our oppression -- which is precisely why the One Percent has methodically destroyed the mental health services that are indisputably the best option for preventing such atrocities. But as long as we remain blind to these realities of class struggle, the resultant mental paralysis furthers the One Percent's long-range intent: reduction of all the rest of us to abject slavery.

And how remarkably convenient this newest mass shooting is for the entire Ruling Class, happening at the onset of the newest debt-ceiling charade, with the Obama Administration (again) preparing to (again) betray lower income people -- especially those of us dependent on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and food stamps. In this context, because the shooting will not only rule the headlines but focus the pseudo-Left's energy into another frenzy of anti-gunowner fanaticism, it's the perfect red herring. Wake up! See how this atrocity is already being used to further the One Percent's agenda.

As for the evil cited by Dr. Orlowski, it seems neither he nor any other public figure dare call it by its real name: capitalism -- specifically its Ayn Rand credo of infinite selfishness elevated to ultimate virtue -- the reversal of every principle of humanistic morality ever posited and therefore our species' all-time nadir of moral imbecility.

historywriter's picture
historywriter 9 years 11 weeks ago
#15

Crazy playa (what kind of a word is that?), you sound like exactly the kind of person we need gun laws for. The government that is now in the hands of the wealthy and big corporations doesn't need guns; they just buy our "elected representatives." You can hear and see them all day long everywhere. They have persuaded millions that having a gun--any kind of gun, pistol, machine gun (they're debating about banning this right now) AK-whatever, is their right and trumps the right to life of everyone and everything else. They really hardly need do this because they have silenced, with the government help through agencies like NSA and CIA and FBI, anyone who disagrees.

Maybe you could take up boxing or something.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 11 weeks ago
#16

Carol R ~ I'm sorry but Gun Control is a Red Herring. As long as the streets are flooded with cheap illegal firearms, anyone is going to be able to obtain one without a license, insurance, background check or ever an ID. That right, these creep will sell a gun to your 13 year old son if he has the cash. No questions asked.

Attacking the manufacturers is the way to go. We need to regulate gun creation and focus on destroying the ones that we can buy back. Anything else is a waste of time and money.

In these multiple shooting cases the immediate problem is mental health care. Mental health care in this country is woefully inadequate. Just read the above story that I've just posted about Aaron Alexis. He was diagnosed with multiple severe mental dysfunctions by the VA. Yet he was allowed to keep his security clearance. That is the real crime.

Any veteran with a security clearance is going to have access to guns. If we can't suspend the military security clearance of a man who is suffering from a sleep disorder, paranoia, and is being treated for hearing voices, how might I ask can we hope to keep a gun out of the hands of a child who doesn't even qualify for VA benefits when he want to buy one on the school yard because a little birdy told him he should?

Mental health care is the major issue in the problem. We as a nation are failing to take care of our own people. That is what is killing so many people. Not guns.

Mike-C's picture
Mike-C 9 years 11 weeks ago
#17

The cause - is it the handy gun? Or, is it sick members of our society that have instant access to one of the many by-products of Colt’s “equalizer”?

Let’s look around at other countries. Is this type of mass killing continually happening elsewhere? I say no. The usual ambush style, multi-person killings happen in war, insurrections, rebellions, gang or drug biz related incidents and such. Thusly, the dilemma at hand appears to be an affliction only in the USA.

Does the gun cause this quandary? I think it is just a tool to accomplish the objective – multiple single-incident murders to gain attention for one’s personal, passionate cause. A crime of passion as it is known. However, if the gun was not so handy, would as many occur? Somehow, I don’t think most of these recent perpetrators would have used the gun’s predecessor, a sword or knife – no, that’s too…”face to face”, shall I say. A bomb, perhaps? Hmm…I don’t think so, too complicated to make for most mentally unstable folks.

Conclusion: Readily available guns make these acts much, much easier to accomplish. Feeling cheated? Angry? Simply go buy a “piece” with some ammo at the many, many stores and pawnshops everywhere. Perhaps practice firing a few rounds, and in no time, you too, can kill a bunch of people by the time the “good guy with a gun” can stop you. A sick society should not have ready access to instant death making devices.

dianhow 9 years 11 weeks ago
#18

America loves their Guns Maybe its the Wild West mentality.. Maybe its fear America has always had a love affair with GUNS. . Maybe if we could get rid of gangs, we would feel safer. IN cities like Chicago and ,LA Thats a huge factor. When I grew up in Chicago It was never like this . Kids are shot every weekend .now. Some neighborhhoods are full of gangs . Areas where I grew up are now crime & drug ridden ghettos. And there were plenty of poor folks back then . but they did not kill.. .When I grew up these areas were middle class. . Public schools provided a very good education. Kids repsected teachers. Something went Horribly wrong since then .

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 11 weeks ago
#19
Quote JohnLemessurier:..making amends for prior errors. This would be a start to healing our violent national nature...
But I'd bet no American would give back the land they stole (or rather, their great, great...whatever.. grandfathers stole) from the Indians or the Mexicans. I know, none of us, today, have anything to do with what our forefathers did. But what do you think would happen if one of us went to an ATM and made a withdrawal and tried to buy something with that money..and the money was discovered to be counterfeit? You would not be reimbursed with real money. And you would likely be put through hell trying to explain why you had counterfeit money.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 11 weeks ago
#20

By the way, Aaron Alexis was a practicing Buddhist and a friend and coworker that said that Aaron was way out of character on this violent action. He had been "like a brother" to her but that he did tell her that he was being cheated out of something by the system...he had PTSD and wasn't getting the care he needed. And there are a lot of former military people who are suffering from PTSD or many other traumas from the military that aren't being adequately addressed. Time bombs waiting to go off!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 11 weeks ago
#21
Quote dianhow:Areas where I grew up are now crime & drug ridden ghettos. And there were plenty of poor folks back then . but they did not kill.. .When I grew up these areas were middle class. . Public schools provided a very good education. Kids repsected teachers. Something went Horribly wrong since then .

dianhow ~ Yes, you are right. And the name of that thing that "went Horribly wrong since then" is President Ronald Wilson (666) Reagan. I remember thinking the day he closed the mental institutions of what a "Horribly" bad decision that was and what painful and deadly consequences there would be. All these mass shootings are no surprise to me. Cause and effect.

Look at this Aaron Alexis. Two weeks ago he was sitting in the VA diagnosed with paranoid, schizophrenia, and insomnia. He told his Doctor that he is hearing voices that tell him to hurt people. The Doctor says take two of these and call me in the morning. He doesn't admit him. He doesn't put him under observation. He does not revoke his security clearance or even put him on leave. He doesn't even warn the police. That Doctor should be arrested for murder. This is ridiculous. This is the VA for crying out loud. There is no excuse for this blatant and dangerous malpractice. I guess the VA is used to turning down mental disorder claims. At this point they must be flooded by them.

However, it just goes to show how we need to take care of the health of our own people. Lack of health care is a public security problem. Sick people spread disease and burden everyone else more than healthy people. Mental health problems are no different as shown by the case in point. If we focus on having a healthy nation, and caring for our sick and infirmed, we will have a more prosperous, happier and safer nation as well.

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 11 weeks ago
#22

Geraldine you are so right the mentally ill used to be in institutions, and now they are all pushing shopping carts on our streets. I think the Meds are the problem. When I was little and bad I got a smack or even a belt on my butt. Now they pump them up with Ritalin. I wonder what percentage of these mass shootings, the shooters where on percription meds.

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 11 weeks ago
#23

Hans as a fellow Canadian, just wondering. Are those Societies run by the government or charities?

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 11 weeks ago
#24

Bravo! Loren Bliss! Very well said, indeed! How can anyone trust a government that has a long history of "murder, inc" enough to voluntarily give up their weapons? How can anyone trust a government that punishes whistle blowers? How can anyone trust a government that has a massive program to spy on every one of us all the time?

There sure is a very strong push by the 1% to disarm the 99%. And they will stop at nothing to accomplish their goal. They are ruthless, deceitful bastards that are steering the masses into absolute slavery. And an awful lot of the 99% have been fooled again and again by this 1%.

There is reason to doubt the causes behind many of these shootings. Let us not forget MKULTRA, the Manchurian Candidate (even though it was just a movie) was based on reality. You didn't think our government just stopped programs like MKULTRA, and others, did you?

Maybe many people haven't been paying attention...look at our economy and where it is headed...the US is many, many trillions of dollars in debt...the derivatives have made it impossible for anything but a horrendous future...the capitalist pigs have played out their last cards and the only thing left is to make sure that a good size of our population is destroyed. Disarming the population will help them accomplish their goals. Their wars help in that endeavor but it is not enough for them to accomplish their goals.

The path to absolute control of the masses is to disarm them all. Then the starving and sickly masses will have no resolve or means to fight back. It will be too late! This nightmare scenario is now being played out and it is time for us all to wake up and fight any erosion of our rights to bear arms.

We read history and think those awful things can only have happened way back then...when film was still pretty much in black and white. Couldn't happen here? I think that one day will come when those who were against gun ownership will wish they hadn't been so obsequious and gullible.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 9 years 11 weeks ago
#25

A classic sign of foxmerization is the constant repeating of......."They're gonna take my guns away." Downsizing machine gun clips is not, and I repeat, is not taking your guns away......for god sakes!

In a functional democracy this issue would already be solved. The vast majority has already been asking for real gun control....check the polls. The problem is the rich guys that make and sell guns and ammo don't want any regulation. Their millions mean more to them and also to many politicians than the lives of their fellow citizens.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 11 weeks ago
#26

Palindromedary/Loren Bliss ~ Very astute observations indeed. We cannot give up our guns. We cannot allow ourselves to be persuaded by this ploy to disarm us. Loren, your suggestion that the assault on mental institutions was intended to provide cause for disarmament is very sound. Actually, the thought has frequently occurred to me as well--starting with the day I learned Reagan opened the asylum doors. It was, after all, the only logical explanation for the action.

You are both right that the prudent course of action would be to insure that we remain ever vigilant. Therefore, the logical approach to addressing this problem would be to attack the underlying cause--lack of comprehensive free public healthcare for all who need it. We must drive that point home over all the anti-gun rhetoric. We must protect the individual and society at the same time. Above all we must protect our Constitutional rights.

GUN CONTROL IS A RED HERRING!!

Oly Doug's picture
Oly Doug 9 years 11 weeks ago
#27

A lot of things help exacerbate violence; poverty is #1. Poverty drives many of our social ills. Given our current conditions, Violence isn't going away but what if we changed some laws affecting gun USE? I am really tired of the gun debate being fought on the NRA's turf. They have defined the realm of discussion and it does not take into account a very obvious perspective even they continue to harp; " How gun control limits the law abiding" Try this:

My simple solution to the gun issue:
You can have any gun or magazine you want so long as you stay law abiding. But, if you do anything, I mean anything illegal with any gun, you go to jail for the rest of your life. And, if you kill anyone with a gun... you die. 1 strike only. No appeals. No parole.
Registration wouldn't be necessary because regardless of who the gun is registered to, if a gun was used in a crime the person using it goes away. Forever.
Stay law abiding, no problem. Use a gun illegally, you go away.... Forever.
How could a second amendment flag waver or even the NRA be against this? They keep saying the laws currently being discussed would impact law abiding people. Just transfer the responsibility to those who would use a gun criminally.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 11 weeks ago
#28
Quote Mike-C: Somehow, I don’t think most of these recent perpetrators would have used the gun’s predecessor, a sword or knife – no, that’s too…”face to face”, shall I say. A bomb, perhaps? Hmm…I don’t think so, too complicated to make for most mentally unstable folks.

Well, there sure were some crazy perpetrators in other countries...like China (where guns are banned)..that burst into a school and managed to murder quite a few children and teachers...all with a knife!

And if a crazy wanted to do some real mass murders then he doesn't need semi-automatics or any kind of gun...they can use other forms of mass killing like gasoline..are they going to ban gasoline? Other people might have the talent for making chemical or biological weapons (some are not really that hard to make)...maybe they should ban all of the potential ingredients before it's too late? Of course lots of universities would have a much harder time procuring those things for whatever educational lab work they require.

Better ban fertilizer and keep farmers from stockpiling them because explosives can be made from them...(eg: OKC Federal building and the first WTC basement bombing).

Guns don't kill people, people kill people...and not always with guns. Take away the guns and they'll just move on to more lethal forms of killing. What the heck...eh? If our government can murder millions of people...they sure set an example don't they?

What we really should be doing is taking away the guns and other armaments from our military and quasi-military (ie: our police) before you even think about taking them away from the people.

If all law-abiding citizens carried guns then those who would dare try anything crooked would be justly dealt with. And that would scare the crap out of the would be criminals. It makes a lot of sense that someone will think twice about pulling a gun on you if you have a gun to shoot back. But if you are an easy target...well...lots of criminals just love that don't they?

Most of the prominent big-time crime is done by the 1% anyway. Just look at our economy. And don't try to point to Wall Street numbers...they are all contrived and manipulated. They don't represent what is really happening in the US today to the majority of people who have had their homes stolen from them, or from people who don't have decent health care (and Obama Care is not the answer..it is yet another scheme by gangsters and our government to herd the people (cattle) down the death chute.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 11 weeks ago
#29

Dian How: I'd say the real problem is that those kids know how easy it is to push other people around, rob, rape, or kill them because there is nobody to shoot back. If they all realized that they would not get away with their violence without a high risk of being shot themselves they would not be so violent. There is little fear in those who know that no one will shoot back.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 9 years 11 weeks ago
#30

Where the hell is this confiscation of guns, "disarmament," proposal? I've never heard of it!

Thank goodness for the real patriots who stood up for us all on Wall Street today. Wish I could have been there. The Occupy Movement is right on target with their Robin Hood tax.....a tax on financial transactions.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 11 weeks ago
#31
Quote DAnneMarc:GUN CONTROL IS A RED HERRING!!
Thank you very much, DAnneMarc! That is the truth!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 11 weeks ago
#32

Thom Hartmann ~ Your study of ratio between guns and gun violence is flawed. It does not take into account illegal gun ownership. The fact of the matter is that the higher the gun crime rate the more people who seek to own guns to defend themselves. These legally purchased guns are counted, black market guns are--at best--estimated. Worsening economic and social conditions drive up the illegal gun ownership exponentially. That figure is unknown. Therefore it is the increase in the gun crime rate that causes the increase in gun ownership and not the increase in gun ownership that causes the increase in the gun crime rate.

Gun control will do nothing to reduce gun crime. Regulating the manufacture of guns and the disposal of illegal street guns will. We also have to address the underlying economic motives for gun crimes. Without addressing that gun crime will never go away.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 11 weeks ago
#33

Palindromedary ~ You're welcome!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 11 weeks ago
#34

Thank you 2950-10k for the news on the Robin Hood Tax..taxing Wall Street...about time...but:

Quote Reuters article:Critics of the tax say the law it would decrease the volume of financial transactions on Wall Street, prompting companies to move overseas, taking jobs and money with them.

With the passage of a financial transaction tax "thousands of high-paying jobs would leave the U.S., sharply reducing employment at hundreds of non-financial companies that depend on these customers," the conservative Heritage Foundation said in a report released earlier this year.

Same old song!...I think we should call them on it..but before we do...we should set an example and string up any top executives who threatens to send their company overseas. They are traitors anyway! String the bastards up! Ok, maybe "string 'em up" is a little bit too vigilantist...maybe we need to smarten up and stop buying all those goods from US companies who are located overseas. Are you listening all you iphone owners out there? You can buy from foreign companies as long as they aren't owned by US companies...or producing goods for US companies.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 11 weeks ago
#35
Quote Palindromedary: Are you listening all you iphone owners out there? You can buy from foreign companies as long as they aren't owned by US companies...or producing goods for US companies.

Palindromedary ~ Funny you mention the iphone. A friend just got the latest one. Did you know that the latest iphone uses a fingerprint detector? I saw a funny cartoon about that showing an iphone user using the fingerprint detector and saying, "Wow, fingerprint detection, how convenient!" The second picture shows a NSA operator looking at the man's fingerprint blown up on six monitors saying, "Yes fingerprint detection, how convenient!"

The moral of this story: STAY AWAY FROM THE NEW iPHONE!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 11 weeks ago
#36

Oly Doug: only problem with such a law would be that it would scare law-abiding citizens from protecting themselves against someone who has a gun. Look at some of the crazy examples of where someone breaks into a home and is shot by the owner just to be found guilty of shooting someone who may have been unarmed. But even an unarmed burglar could be very strong and easily overpower the home owner and even grab a kitchen knife...or not...who knows in the dark...so how is a person supposed to defend him/herself from an intruder that could very well kill them if they are afraid that they may get sentenced to death by a government that has such fickle laws? I believe that if everyone knew that every citizen was armed and knew how to use them there would be far less confidence on the part of a would be intruder to break into anyone's home. That alone would be a very big deterrent to break ins...to home robberies. But see..criminals don't want the people armed..they want easy prey. The criminals can always get guns illegally and they know that the system works in their favor...by disarming their victims in advance.

It is also not unheard of that politicians ... DAs... Judges... Governors.. have in the past.. sent innocent people to prison and even a death penalty all based on political expediency. Innocent people have been set up and murdered by the state... because of crooked politicians and law enforcement people. While many law enforcement people have gunned down people in the streets and gotten away with it.

If you are going to impose such laws on the people then impose them on the police...impose them on the military who mass murders civilians. Those people, by the way, set the example don't they....those people get away with killing with impunity and are called heroes. And our movies and media hype them up to be the examples that our young people follow.

No wonder this country is going downhill. It won't be long until this country is just another 2-bit dictatorship banana Republic with right-wing death squads disappearing people. If those citizens in those South American countries, all had weapons to match the right-wing death squads, and knew how to use them, there would not have been right-wing death squads or a two-bit dictator. A civil war maybe...but at least the hundreds of thousands of civilians wouldn't have died like helpless slaughtered sheep.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 11 weeks ago
#37

Palindromedary ~ Here's that cartoon I told you about. Very funny!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/q71/s720x720/1236993_10151850558424658_1794668548_n.jpg

(you might have to cut and paste that one)

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 11 weeks ago
#38

DAnneMarc: No kidding! I know! And people, just like the lemmings following the Pied Piper, line up to buy these spy devices. I understand you can't even take the battery out...very easily. I guess if some sinister rogue government agency is after you...the only thing you can do is stomp on it or throw it over a bridge....naw! Too expensive!

And then they tweet or twitter every single personally identifiable thing about themselves. Oh darn...I guess we are not too much different from them by participating on this blog.

I often thought that maybe I should just try to fly somewhere just to see if they have me on their do-not-fly list. I got caught many years ago..right after 9/11..in an airport security search where they found a book that I was reading, that was critical of the Bush regime...I almost didn't get on to that flight.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 11 weeks ago
#39

DAnneMarc: Thanks! That was funny! And true! And scary! I think George Orwell missed that one.

garylatman's picture
garylatman 9 years 11 weeks ago
#40

We are not an enlightened society. We are addicted to guns and violence. That's my conclusion. Will we learn from this latest mass shooting? Sadly, I don't think so.

UNC Tarheels's picture
UNC Tarheels 9 years 11 weeks ago
#41

the day the shooter (yes I know his name but I refuse to use it!) A Senate committee was going to hold hearings for stand your ground. But the Senate adjoirned as soon as the shooting started. Randi Rhodes said on her show yesterday that if the news media aired crime scene photos of mass shooting like they did photos of Syrian kids dying from sarin gas something may change. But as long as the NRA continues corrupting the legislative process nothing will ever change! If you don't believe me just ask the Colorado legislators who were recalled for voting for legislation that would require universal background checks! I have heard from republicans in the past that recall elections were unfair thier logic was that why disenfrancise the voters who elected a (R) candidate. I ask what about the voters who voted for the 2 (D)'s who passed legislation that the voters asked them to pass?

The NRA is a clear and present danger to the national security of the United States!

PhilfromOhio's picture
PhilfromOhio 9 years 11 weeks ago
#42

Hanging part of the gun problem on Reagan is spot on. He gutted the mental care system in the US and rather than refer to "homeless" people, he smugly called them "Outdoorsmen", as if they all preferred to sleep on the street. He was an arrogant and petty person and his legacy is corrosive, despite all of the bogus praise that tea party and Republican devotees heap on him daily.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 11 weeks ago
#43

The oppression in our society is not overt, it is of a psychological nature. Thus it results in psychological episodes.

The Ayn Randian ethos causes two things. First, people are EXTREMELY thoughtless in how they behave toward one another . Second, the angry response of some victims of this first result of the trend is to have very little consideration of the humanity of those they swing out at when they "get even with society".

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 11 weeks ago
#44

Nonetheless, the problem is NOT that the mentally ill were evicted from the hospitals. That is a scapegoating of the mentally ill by the gun lobby, I think.

We are manufacturing mental illness in our society. Community is as essential to our mental health as the air we breathe and food we eat is to our physical health and the powerful in our society are trying to destroy community and, in some instances, replace it, woefully inadequately, with electronic devices..

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 11 weeks ago
#45

It wouldn't hurt to curtail the availability of guns. We're too sick to play around with guns. We wouldn't pass a background check collectively, as a society.

dmarkg's picture
dmarkg 9 years 11 weeks ago
#46

I could understand if your reason was the government will collapse and there will be no law and order. But if you think you have a chance stopping the U.S. Government with your guns you are sadly mistaken.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 11 weeks ago
#47

The pharmaceutical lobby is almost as powerful as the gun lobby but the homeless are not taking meds. The institutionalized are and the problem with the institutions is that they are just pumping stations for drugs, especially for the poor commoners of the inmates on the cut back state funded level.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 11 weeks ago
#48

The term, Kend, at least in the U.S., is "non profit" rather than "charity" and I prefer it as the Schizophrenia Society is a support group of people helping themselves rather than a "charity" where someone has pity upon someone else and does them a kindness as to a lost dog. I actually prefer a government agency to a charity as that is a recognition of a basic human right and of its being upheld but the organization or society, I believe, is legally classed in Canada as a charity or non-governmental. Their website lists a charity classification number.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 11 weeks ago
#49

Prefrontal Lobotomies! Now! ;-0 But then, as in the movie Clockwork Orange, the authorities would have no reason to exist. Anyone who even mentions MKULTRA as having ever existed must be a paranoid schizophrenic and needs to have a prefrontal lobotomy so that they are never a threat to "National Security". ;-()) Because some of us have wised up to the fact that "National Security" means the security of the 1% and the insecurity of the 99%.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 11 weeks ago
#50

By the way, governments are falling all over the place from the ticked off citizens of those other countries that have managed to overthrow their corrupt governments. Never mind that the US just happens to want those governments to collapse because they are no longer under the US thumb. And so they use left-wing sounding entities like International Center for Non-Violent Conflict to do the dirty work for the CIA..ie: infiltrate those countries and stir up and train potential rabble rousers to cause internal conflicts...which eventually turn into violent ones. And we don't even have to send in our military (that's supposed to be the "non-violent" part)...at first anyway (but it always turns violent for the people doesn't it?). The CIA used to do this but got a lot of flack for it (fomenting internal descent and overthrowing elections and assassinating leaders the US didn't like) so now they, as they do much of everything else, farm out their dirty work to non-CIA operatives...hired "guns".

But in the case of Syria, anyway, and probably others as well, the internal rebels get a little bit of encouragement (and chemical weapons and outside mercenaries...like Al Qaeda) from the US, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Britain, etal.

I wonder if American citizens finally do rebel against the ruling elite in the US...would they also get encouragement and perhaps armaments from the rest of the world who already see the US ruling elite as worthy of being overthrown?

Oh, man, I hear a little Beethoven's 9th wafting through my brain from those microwave towers right now! Just kidding! No, really NSA spies, I DON'T hear voices coming from microwave towers. I guess thoughts don't qualify as "voices" do they? Man, you can't even joke anymore without some Barnie Fife clown taking you seriously. You can't crack a joke at airports...and it may even get so bad that you can't crack a joke anywhere without being a target for some quid nuncian prig political opportunist to target you. That's a police state! Seig Heil!

Thom's Blog Is On the Move

Hello All

Today, we are closing Thom's blog in this space and moving to a new home.

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