There's an international showdown happening in Russia!

The G20 summit in Russia is officially underway, and it's being dubbed an international showdown. Although G20 summit typically focuses on the global economy, this year's event is being dominated by the potential U.S. strike in Syria. Tensions between President Obama and Russian President Vladimir Putin have mounted over possible military action, and tensions don't appear to be easing any time soon. In recent days, Putin has voiced opposition about US military action in Syria, at the same time that President Obama has been attempting to make the case for war.

At a stopover in Sweden on his way to the G20, President Obama admitted that US relations with Russia have “hit a wall.” At the same time that the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee was approving a war resolution, President Putin appeared to be issuing thinly veiled threats about Russia's response. In an interview on Wednesday, Putin said, “If we see that steps are taken that violate the existing international norms, we shall think how we should act in the future, in particular regarding supplies of such sensitive weapons to certain regions of the world.” Some experts believe that Putin was referring to the possibility of supplying Iran with surface-to-air missiles that the US and Israel oppose.

The threat adds even more tension to relations between Putin and Obama, especially since Iran's military chief said they will back Syrian president Assad “to the end.” As President Obama tries to make the case to Russia and to the international community at the G20 summit for military intervention in Syria, many Americans are making the case against it to lawmakers here at home. The majority of people in our nation don't want to get involved in this complicated and dangerous scenario, and they are begging their elected leaders to pull us back from the edge of a potential world war.

Comments

Flopot's picture
Flopot 9 years 22 weeks ago
#1

Unfortunately Syria is at the confluence of several global patterns - the Western desire to regain control of Iranian oil and Syria is in the way; the now verified international Bankster plot to control the finance of all economies, meaning private central banks and Syria is in the way; the conflict over Western and Eastern plans for oil and gas pipelines and control of Syria is vital.

soulinwonder's picture
soulinwonder 9 years 22 weeks ago
#2

Hi Thom-I think when you debate these pseudo-libertarians (especially on economic issues like the San Franciso/Walmart story yesterday) you would do well with disarming them from the outset. The easiest way to do this is to have them acknowledge that corporations wouldn't exist in a truly free market. Incorporation, as Dean Baker explains, is one of the great gifts to conservatives from the "nanny state".
Once they acknowledge that a corporation is an unnatural creation of government- if they then take a pro-corporation tack- they've admitted that they are actually for government taking an active role in the economy. The debate then becomes about how the government should be active.
Just my .02
Jason

RaleighMom's picture
RaleighMom 9 years 22 weeks ago
#3

souinwonder is absolutely right. In fact, "corporations" are a legal construction. Eliminate the basic idea that any business can be separated from the actions of its owner/employees. If the corporation breaks the law, the owners are personally responsible.

Carson L's picture
Carson L 9 years 22 weeks ago
#4

Why do they go?

The troops charging Fredericksburg.

The bonzai charges in Guadalcanal and the South Pacific.

Why do they do it? Every soldier has got to be thinking and wanting the same thing right before the whistle blows to send them up and over the wall and directly into machine gun fire.

I'm sure this has got to baffle political strategist who are always trying as hard as possible for that one angle or 'push' to get the masses on their side of the fine line of an issue.

But staring down certain death and doom (or most optimistically, becoming horrificaly disfigured and crippled for life) youve got to believe that every soldier involved is most definately on the side of, "umm, maybe this isn't such a great idea?" vs. "CHAAARGE!!!!"

I know it sounds presumptuous but Id be willing to wager that ALL of the people involved would be against going through with this act of sheer lunacy. Shouldn't there be, just by chance, at least one natural public speaker in the crowd of terrified soldiers who can speak up for all and convey the obvious?

Apparently, NO, never went down like that.

CHARGE!!!!! ARRRRRRRRRGH- game over, everyone loses.

On a side note, I've been debating the justification of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings in the mid 40's. And, so far, I've boiled it down to this question, "If the roles were switched, would Japan NOT have dropped the bomb on the US because of conscience or what have you?"

My answer to that is, "No, it would have gone down more like this: (Zero airplane noise)errrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRR-BONZAAAAIIIIIIII-end of transmission."

Woody Thomas 9 years 22 weeks ago
#5

I support the use of our military to stop the use of chemical weapons. In our current situation, we have blood/chemicals on our own hands. I propose we apologize to the Iranians for the CIA's involvement with the overthrow of Mosadeq. Then apologize for supplying Saddam Hussein with the chemical weapons that killed about 100,000 Iranians. Turn H. W. Bushe, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld over to the Hague with the evidence of their participation for war crimes. Then go back to the Iranians and see if we can stop the carnage. I know Americans are exceptional in that they expect others to act in a fashion that we don't but think it would be a good thing and sign treaty's, conventions, etc. to show how good we are.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 22 weeks ago
#6

I remember just after the invasion of Iraq there was speculation among the lefty academic analysts and experts that Syria was "next". Administration spokespeople laughed it off, "Hahaha, Syria's not next." They were called on it so they backed off.

They waited a decent interval but are now back at it. They don't need "boots on the ground" as they already got 'em - those of their proxies, those patriotic freedom fighters of the rebel army, to effect regime change.

I is a very old political trick to commit an act of terrorism and blame it on the other side. The "mortar round in the marketplace" of Sarajevo is an example and the U.S. C.I.A. did many things like that to get us into Viet Nam and could have construed some thing like that here in Syria. It doesn't make sense for Assad to have willfully crossed the "Red Line" unless he was suicidal.

I guess the cheap oil in Iraq just isn't good enough - or cheap enough - without a pipeline through Syria.

Flopot's picture
Flopot 9 years 22 weeks ago
#7

@Mark

Not only the so-called lefties predicting that Syria was next. US Generals!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw

Btw, the lefties and liberals are notorious for supporting humanitarian wars of intervention, like the UK's BBC and Guardian media. They always supported Tony Blair's wars of aggression. Fake lefties and progressives, methinks.

Here's hoping that democracy beats tyranny in the US...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-american-people-have-spoken-calls-to-co...

Shock Poll Results Just In ;-)

http://www.theonion.com/articles/poll-majority-of-americans-approve-of-s...

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 22 weeks ago
#8

We're only concerned about human rights violations that take place atop of large oil reserves or in the path of important pipelines. Chemical weapons use is like "eating peas with a knife". It justifies dispensing with any restraint to punish such an infraction against codes of decency.

Flopot's picture
Flopot 9 years 22 weeks ago
#9

This partly sums up the Syrian intervention...

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1081/xh10.png

biggob's picture
biggob 9 years 22 weeks ago
#10

Thanks Thom. It seems as though the President, who is hated by the body of conspiring right, may have struck upon a classic "gotcha" position on Syria. That is, if those in Congress/Senate elected by constituents on the far nut-case dare to vote for action against Syria, supporters (with the money) will say they have sided with the hated OBama, and there may be trouble at election time even if the supporters want action themselves. If they dare to vote against action against Syria, their war-profiteering supporters may say they will withdraw their support to avoid loss of billions. Good plan Mr. President!

Carole Lutness's picture
Carole Lutness 9 years 22 weeks ago
#11

So we're going to war against Syria for humanitarian reasons? Buy that and I have a bridge to sell you! Could it be that we and Saudi Arabia are staking a claim against the proposed Iran-Iraq-Syria natural gas pipeline and for the Saudi Arabia backed Qatar pipeline so we and our allies control access. This is why Russia is beating its chest because they’re backing the IIS pipeline. How stupid the American people are if they believe what we're being told by Congress, the President and the media. This is another resource/plunder war just like Iraq and Afghanistan were/are. You don't see us going to war for "humanitarian" reasons against countries that don't have resources we want. Don’t do this.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 22 weeks ago
#12

Flopot ~ Bravo! That was a great video with General Wesley Clark. This is a better one. Everyone must watch this. Forgive me Flopot if you've already linked to this one; but, if so, here it is again. We do have a problem!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKrkokQIx9g

michaelmoore052's picture
michaelmoore052 9 years 22 weeks ago
#13

Yes. Pipeline through Syria. Petrodollars. Big oil.

Equals lies to the American people. Deaths to our fighting people. Deaths to innocent children, their parents, uncles, aunts, grandparents. Fascism is alive and well. They don't want to feed the poor; school lunches, health care, Social Security, Medicare, housing, education all will be cut in order to buy $1+million missiles, billions of rounds of ammunition, fuel for warships & planes.

And then they want to call this "the greatest nation on Earth."

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 22 weeks ago
#14

I must say I certainly hope that Russian President Vladimir Putin steps up to the plate. Twice now the Antichrists of Nostradamus have been defeated by the Russians. That's both Napoleon and Hitler. Go figure. Certainly it may be this very same nation that defends the world against yet the third Antichrist of Nostradamus. Only they may have the wherewithal. Third time's a charm I always say!

I know 500-1 American citizens are against this stupid war in Syria. What I want to know is who is this 1 individual. My guess is he has to wear a helmet to go outside. "Duh-Ta-Duh!!" We really need to bring back publically funded mental institutions. We also have to bring back Democracy. I miss my country!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 22 weeks ago
#15

Flopot ~ Thanks for that visual summary! Pictures are so helpful. Yet still, I'm a bit confused. Which one is supposed to be the Jack A$$?

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 22 weeks ago
#16

Wow, Putin and Obama couldn't be more different guys. I find it hard to look at President Obama as a tough guy for some reason.

I heard something interesting today about this new war your Government wants to drag you into and if I had a daughter, granddaughter etc I would be a little worried.

Now that this Obama has made your milatary genderless. With the troops exhausted from being in two wars for years. If this goes wrong and the USA has to go back to a draft.

What do young women and there parents think of this war now knowing this. With two granddaughters it scares the hell of me. with the way they treat women over there can you imagine what they would do to those girls if they captured them. Stop don't put that thought in your head you won't sleep to night.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 9 years 22 weeks ago
#17

What I find most unsettling about this showdown is that there are no good intentions by any of those involved. It's really just a bunch of guys afflicted with personality disorders......political ego, religious fanaticism, avarice, and the kind of self-delusion.... power trip...... that too much money almost always causes people. With the average income for Syrians around $4000, a guy like Assad who's worth well over 500 million, becomes by default pretty powerful..... and if he happens to have a personality like Caligula, Cheney, or the Koch's for example, then it becomes a real problem for the normal people. In fact the normal people, as a result of maniacs who constantly grab for more money and power, are suffering with endless death and destruction. So what's our solution...more death and destruction?????

Maybe we should send Dennis Rodman on a diplomatic mission....shoot some hoops and drink some beers with Assad, Putin, Obama.....who knows?

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 22 weeks ago
#18

BTW. If anyone question. In my opinion, The Pledge of Allegiance is Child Abuse!! Go figure. To place an oath in the mouth of anyone is coersion. To place an oath in the mouth of a child is Child Abuse of the first class.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 9 years 22 weeks ago
#19

Regarding the real threat of global conflict, I'll say one thing....it sure is good to hear the voices of reason and sanity....voices like Thom, Pap, Bernie, Ed, Randi, Nicole, etc. It gives me hope. I wish our so called representative government would also listen, learn, and respond democratically.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 22 weeks ago
#20

Fantastic links, Flopot! And that video was some incriminating stuff for sure....!

This video was posted on Sept 11 2011 (10 years anniversary of 9/11/01)..Amy Goodwin interviewing General Wesly Clark about 9/11 and the subsequent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

----General Wesley Clark reminiscing about conversations he had with one of his generals in the Pentagon on about 9/20/2001..then a few weeks later:

9/20/01:

General to Clark: "We've made the decision we're going to war with Iraq."
General Clark said: "We're going to war with Iraq? Why?"
General said: "I don't know....I guess they don't know what else to do."
General Clark said: "Well, did they find some information connecting Saddam to al-Qaeda?"
General said: "No, no. There's nothing new that way. They just made the decision to go to war with Iraq....I guess it's like we don't know what to do about terrorists, but we've got a good military and we can take down governments....I guess if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail."

Then a few weeks later:

General Clark: "Are we still going to war with Iraq?"
General: "Oh it's worse than that."

----He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And....

General said: "This is a memo that describes how we're going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran."
Clark said: "Is it classified?"
General said: "Yes, sir."
Clark said: "Well, don't show it to me."

----And clark saw the General a year or so ago, and...

Clark said: "You remember that?"
General said, "Sir, I didn't show you that memo! I didn't show it to you!"

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 22 weeks ago
#21

Palindromedary ~ Thanks for sharing that before I did. You are the man!!! And, you took the words right out of my mouth!! I thought you might get a kick out of that interview too. Don't forget to check out this one too. Duct tape your ears to your head first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKrkokQIx9g

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 22 weeks ago
#22

I got a letter today from AT&T Uverse saying that I have 45 days to call the numbers they provided to talk to their reps about signing up for Uverse. They seemed to be indicating that they will be changing over from normal DSL to fiber-optic, in my area, and that my internet connection via DSL will no longer work.

I did some checking on the internet and found that AT&T has been sending these letters around for years now and it is virtually the same letter..same numbers to call. I also found out that it really does look like phone numbers for AT&T Uverse.

So, after I got over being a little ticked off that they are going to disrupt my life, I am thinking that it might be nice to have higher internet speeds...so I looked into it...and it looks to me like there are several ways of connecting fiber-optics (FO)...one way is to run FO to the CO (Central Office) in my area...another is to run FO on down the line to the DSlam (that little metal cabinet on the sidewalk)...another is to run the FO to a box on the side of my house..another is to run the FO inside my house. The best speed would be obtained using FO all the way into the house...no copper wires until it gets to my hardware. And I can only get that, I understand, if I buy into their package plans of TV, Internet, and phone and the higher internet speeds. Otherwise, I will likely only get FO to the DSlam and still have copper wires going to my house. And if they don't do that, they will run FO to the CO and then copper wires to the DSlams then to my house. And the further away the DSlams or the CO is from my house (using copper wires) the worse is the internet speed (you can never really expect to get the advertised speed...it rarely happens because of many factors..one of which is distance from the CO or DSlam..others are usually loose connections, no filters on the other phones in your house, worn or abraded insulation on the copper wires and rain that gets them wet, even the age of the wires..the material used in the core...lots of things can degrade copper wires.

I was kind of hoping to hold out for Google fiber-optics but since I don't live in Kansas (anymore--I clicked the heels of my ruby slippers 3 times) where they are currently putting in fiber-optics I will have to wait..or go with AT&T. Google fiber is not available up here in Moosejaw yet.

Anyway, I looked into going for a package until I realized that AT&T Uverse TV doesn't even have FSTV, or LinkTV, or even Russia Today (RT)...No Amy Goodwin, no Thom Hartmann, no Max Keiser, no Abby Martin or any of the others I like to watch. Although I could still watch them on the new high speed fiber-optic internet I suppose. It just ticks me off that AT&T will have all those right-wing channels and no left wing ones...I don't know can we still call MSNBC even partially left anymore...I guess there is still Rachel Maddow.

They certainly have several Fox channels and a bunch of other channels that I would never be interested in. They do have MSNBC... which is good...sort of...but I wouldn't be able to live without those 3 channels that I get on DishTV.

I may just go for the internet only...unless I find out AT&T Uverse was jiving me and it won't actually take out my DSL. While AT&T is my phone provider...I use a different ISP...although I believe that ISP relies on AT&T...so I may be hosed.

I had read that one person discovered, after he lost his DSL internet from the time AT&T Uverse made the change over...that he found out that all he had to do to get his DSL to work again was to reverse the red and green phone line wires. Seems the way AT&T techs cut off internet is that they reverse the red and green copper wires in the DSlam. Others tried it and had success as well.

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 9 years 22 weeks ago
#23

Those are good questions CARSON, most people's opinion regarding U.S. history, more specificly WWII and the U.S.'s role, is one that leans strongly to the side of; "If the U.S. does "it" it's right and just...but when another countries government commits the same act, it's considered wrong and punishable.

Stephan Fortunato Jr puts it more elequantly; "I was greatly impressed to see that a act perpitraited by the enemy was ipso facto vicious and deceitful, whereas the same act perpitraited by the United States was just and praise worthy".

Of all the books I've read on WWII and the United State's role, my favorite is "The Bomb" (non fiction) by Howard Zinn. Zinn - if you didn't already know was a Bombadier Gunner during WWII and his story is one that, in my opinion, should be required reading in High School American History Class, along with Dalton Trumbo's "Johnny Got His Gun" (fiction). The reason I say this, not to state the obvious, is because the perspective these writters give are ones that do not glorify war, they do not hide the truth of how hellish war is. For far too long the reality of war has been twisted, and the grusome reality is swept under the rug...War is not a John Wayne movie.

My grandfather served in WWII...When I was 14 he started sharing his stories with me. He told me of a time when his unit went in to a small town the morning after it had been bombed to "have a look around"...The scene, as he put it was, horrifying and made most of the men puke and run away. That same morning he shot and killed a woman who had a gun and was hiding in a stair well. He said he didn't even see her at first, all he saw as he rounded the corner was a person pointing a gun in his direction, and he pulled the trigger first. That one incident, he said, stayed with him, and often he would wake from a deep sleep thinking about her...a terrified young women.
When I graduated High School in 1990, I strongly considered joinning the Navy. A few days before I was going to go down to the recruiters office my grandfather called me and we had a 3 min conversation, in which he said this to me; "I commend you for your selflessness, but you would better serve humanity by a peaceful means of nonviolence towards that which is violent...Our countries government no longer acts as a beacon of light for truth and justice, which is to establish and uphold peace. Instead our role in the world has become that of strong arm robbers and common thugs, who go around terrorizing others for "their own selfish gain". You are better than that...Don't be a part of what has quickly gone from a Democratic System Of, For, and By the People to a Corporate Facist Empire, of the few, for the few, and by the few, and that prays upon the weak and the less fortunate to do their dirty bidding."
I always had great respect for my grandfather, so I slep on what he said...I never went to that recruites office, instead I begain reading and studdying the practice of Non Violent Action, and it is an action...I read Coleman McCarthy's "I'd rather teach Peace", which lead me to dozens of other nonviolent activist who managed to accomplish more through nonviolent actions then by violent ones. Gandhi, Dorothy Day, Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King, just to name a few. And today we have our own leaders of nonviolence, and they, like their predicessors, struggle amongst Fools Gold.

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 9 years 22 weeks ago
#24

Bingo...Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding...Yahtzee!!!

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 9 years 22 weeks ago
#25

Oh KEND you never cease to amaze me...Your concerns have me busten a gut!!!
Here you are Mr Pro Oil, anti Green Energy Alternatives, and your worried about what could happen to military women if caught by the supposed enemy...Yeah they are gonna get gang raped REPEATEDLY!!! They will be treated less than human...Like filthy whores...I mean c'mon women are just second class citezens...No?
But don't freat KEND...Stick to the ideology of "by any means necessary...The ends justify the means...Profit before People". Right!?!?

Draft beer...Not me!

michaelmoore052's picture
michaelmoore052 9 years 22 weeks ago
#26

Gee, Obama stopped in Sweden. Our Ambassador to Sweden is none other thsn the son of Zbigniew Brzezinski, Dr. Mark BRZEZINSKI, and you know that our president had a little chat with the man whose father authored the treatise that was the precursor to the INFAMOUS PEARL HARBOR MEMO. Yes, precursor. His (Zbig's) book: THE GRAND CHESSBOARD, which is a treatise on who is to control Greater Eurasia. The book deals with the resources of that region and who will control the flow of oil and gas through pipelines that will stretch across, you guessed it, SYRIA and other countries.

Here's a website similar to The Grand Chessboard (the PDF of which can be found on the web): http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Great_Game

I would imagine Barack met with Mark Brzezinski in Sweden. We're in for a ride.

Carson L's picture
Carson L 9 years 22 weeks ago
#27

teach peace, sounds great, unless we;re talking 1945! no peace was being taught, not by Japan, the red army, germany, us, ANYONE! I love this 20 20 hind sight youre refusing to budge from. good for you, but no one else. trying to say that the atomic bombs were EXCESSIVE during the finality of WW2 is like complaing that there's a smudge on the door handle to your apartment when your whole place is filled FROM TOP TO BOTTOM with human feces. 70 MILLION PEOPLE OR MORE died notcho, how many died because of the bombs? A LOT, which died from which bomb? WHO fuckng cares, that is not the point, you think those civilians who died from napalms and blanket bombing give a shit if it was explosive, chemical or nuclear? WAR IS WRONG, im sorry if you dont agree with the disgusting method with which the 2nd World WAR was concluded, but there couldve been 10 atomic bombs dropped and that still would not have come close to the total mayhem and devastation amassed on our planet in that era.

Nacho, offense intended, fuck your ideals about JUSTIFIED WARFARE, there is no such thing, the war ended, lets not get back to that point or warfare in general

btw, my grandfather served in WW2, as a japanese pow for over 4 years, Jenro Lambaiso Sr., his stories were a tad bit different than the ones you heard, he lived a long time with an amazing amount of respect for Japanese culture, i still dont understand it after what they put him through, none the less, he too was adament that anything and everything needed to be done to end the war asap

Don Graham's picture
Don Graham 9 years 22 weeks ago
#28

Military interventions? No.

Humanitarian interventions? Yes - through the UNHCR & UNICEF.

Those advocating a military intervention misconstrue where our leadership role in the world lies - of, by and for the people; not the profits of the 0.01%, a.k.a. Ike's military, industrial, Congressional complexes.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 22 weeks ago
#29

It's really a war being waged by the world's top 1% against the world's bottom 99%. And, like in the book or movie "1984" it will always be the facade of one country against another. The ruling elite in every one of those countries are very likely complicit in the delusion....a way to keep the masses distracted while the ruling elite continue their exploitation of them. Keep the masses continually very afraid of one another so that they cannot fight against the ruling elite. The top political figureheads are merely fronts...puppets..that play out the game of illusion for the real powers behind them....and it is not the people...the masses...it is the wealthy ruling classes who do the real manipulation behind the scenes. Everything else is merely theatrics...East Asia against Oceania against Eurasia. Keep watching those screens, brothers, and swilling down the gin. Yes, be patriotic and hate and fear those uncivilized heathens who are "jealous of our freedoms" who won't let us steal their oil!

Does it make you wonder why the US used so much propaganda of hate and fear all those years after 9/11 about Al Qaida...and now are actually assisting them in Syria? Does it make you wonder why the US is doing about the same thing they did in Afghanistan after the Russians were kicked out...supplying war lords (and now Al Qaida) with lots of weapons (even WMD..chemical weapons) that could soon be used as yet another psyops threat against the US? It just keeps going on and on, doesn't it? The creation of enemies to keep the masses scared and distracted from who our real enemies are.

Does it make you wonder why the US has actually sacrificed cryptographic security which actually weakens US defense against other countries so that US spy agencies can more easily spy on Americans?

Quote cryptome:it could reasonably be said that the FBI intentionally - and very seriously - weakened the United States critical infrastructure and our military capabilities by advocating the use of a fundamentally weak encryption algorithm as a tradeoff between US National Security and their need to observe domestic communications in the United States.

http://cryptome.org/2012/01/0032.htm

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 22 weeks ago
#30

MMmmNACHOS ~ "Fools Gold?" Interesting term. Whatever you want to call it. Give me a heaping helping of that "Fools Gold." You Grandpa was 100% right. I'm glad you listened to him. There are too many Thugs in the world. Blessed are the Peace Makers.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 22 weeks ago
#31
Quote Palindromedary:Does it make you wonder why the US is doing about the same thing they did in Afghanistan after the Russians were kicked out...supplying war lords (and now Al Qaida) with lots of weapons (even WMD..chemical weapons) that could soon be used as yet another psyops threat against the US? It just keeps going on and on, doesn't it? The creation of enemies to keep the masses scared and distracted from who our real enemies are.

Palindromedary ~ I supposed you saw that video I linked to in it's entirety. It had an interesting conclusion whereas it restated President Bush's comment "...another attack that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud." Hard to tell with that giant smirk on his face whether that was a warning or a threat. Certainly the video was implying that it was a threat. 'Don't try to stop us or we'll kill you.' 'You're either with us or against us.'

Interesting Bush quotes

Quote President George W. Bush:43. "The same folks that are bombing innocent people in Iraq were the ones who attacked us in America on September the 11th." --Washington, D.C., July 12, 2007
Quote President George W. Bush:44. "You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror." --interview with CBS News' Katie Couric, Sept. 6, 2006
Quote President George W. Bush:3. "You work three jobs? ... Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that." --to a divorced mother of three, Omaha, Nebraska, Feb. 4, 2005 (Listen to audio clip)
Quote President George W. Bush:4. "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." --Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004 (Watch video clip)
Quote President George W. Bush:8. "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." --Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000 (Listen to audio clip)
Quote President George W. Bush:20. "The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." --Washington, D.C., Sept. 13, 2001
Quote President George W. Bush:19. "I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." --Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002
Quote President George W. Bush:18. "So what?" –President Bush, responding to a an ABC News correspondent who pointed out that Al Qaeda wasn't a threat in Iraq until after the U.S. invaded, Dec. 14, 2008
Quote President George W. Bush:22. "Goodbye from the world's biggest polluter." --in parting words to world leaders at his final G-8 Summit, punching the air and grinning widely as those present looked on in shock, Rusutsu, Japan, July 10, 2008
Quote President George W. Bush:11. "I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office." --Washington, D.C., May 12, 2008

I once wrote a song that would echo the testimony of this crime regime where they ever pulled in to testify in court.

The Facist's Testimony Song

(as sung to the tune of "If You're Happy And You Know It Clap Your Hands)

Please don't ask me or I'll tell you I don't know!

Please don't ask me or I'll tell you I don't know!

I don't know and I don't care...

And I can prove I'm not all there!

Please don't ask me or I'll tell you I don't know!

fbacher's picture
fbacher 9 years 22 weeks ago
#32

Your discussion with Reason Magazine about locally owned businesses made me come up with a few thoughts:

1- The game Monpoly needs to be updated so that your salay when you pass GO varies according to whether companies are locally owned or not. Also, if the business is not locally owned, the rent should go to the bank, not to any player. Fees will be higher at locally owned businesses, but your salary will indirectly be higher, but ONLY if most of the players opt for locally owned businesses.

2- Libertarians strongly beleive in personal choice and greed is good. But this model is obviously not universally the best. For example, during times of war we can't let each person individually decide which side to actively take. Solidarity must be held or the "house will be divided against itself and fall." I am sure there must be some studies on games that model locally owned, higher costs but higher choice wages vs. monopoly owned, lower costs, but lower choice and wages. I suspect that human nature is to follow the Libertarian model, but that the outcome of the games is long term harm to the majority.

MMmmNACHOS's picture
MMmmNACHOS 9 years 22 weeks ago
#33

Huh???

Ouch that was quite a tongue lashing CARSON...Especially when you totally have misready me...got me all wrong..."Justified Warfare"!?!?Please explain how you get that from what I wrote? You couldn't be more wrong about me.
I guess that's just "collateral damage"! Ha!! ;)

I'll say this about any justified Military Strike on Syria. If it's focus is on taking out Weapons to level the playing field between Pro Democracy and Ass-sad's regiem...I can get behind that. Anything more is a complete overreach...And I can't get behind that!

Oh and FYI...There where several accounts of small villages through out Europe that practiced non-violent action towards the Nazi and in those areas there was far less killing. I'll try and find a link for these recorded accounts, they are very interesting. There are several accouns of Non-violent action during the Revelotionary War and they were successful in gaining ground towards Independence.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 22 weeks ago
#34

DAnneMarc: Yes I did watch that video in it's entirety....thanks! That was really very much worth watching. Was that your YouTube web site? Just curious. There were lots of interesting videos at that site that seemed to me what you might be interested in. But maybe I'm mistaken.

Yes, Bush just looked like not only that he just ate the canary but that he was having a hard time from laughing about it. What a smug twit he was! Spoiled rich brats are often like that. Arrogant twits that sometimes become psychotic psychopathic killers.

And that first quote wasn't wrong...he was being very truthful..if not misleading. A coworker had a whole desktop calendar with a Bushian quote for every day of the year. I think Bush spent too much time partying when he was in school and smoking funny stuff.

Quote President George W. Bush:
43. "The same folks that are bombing innocent people in Iraq were the ones who attacked us in America on September the 11th." --Washington, D.C., July 12, 2007

It WAS the US that was bombing innocent people in Iraq and the same ones who brought down the WTC towers and hit the Pentagon as a false flag operation to justify invading the Middle East. The PNAC plan was to do just that...and, perhaps, that was what Gen. Wesley Clark was referring to...the plans to take down 7 countries in 5 years. Syria is just one of the remaining countries on the PNAC plan for US world domination. Once they control most of the oil in the world they control the world.

I know, Bush always had a way of getting words and ideas twisted that made the world snicker a bit. And Reagan was often largely forgiven by many because he came down with Alzheimer's disease and couldn't remember all the criminal things he was cajoled into doing by the ruling elite criminals around him. Just what the US needs...yet another puppet President controlled by the ruling elite. I don't know how Obama is going to be forgiven, however...he is a Constitutional Scholar (so we're told) and he is not a fumbling, bumbling dummy like the others.

And thanks for all those Bushian quotes! Very interesting!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 22 weeks ago
#35

Palindromedary ~ Thanks for the response. No, to answer your question, I haven't found this quotation on my own. Actually I found it chasing the offerings of Flopot. Let Flopot take the credit for this revelation. Without Flopot and that contribution this revelation would have never happened. I am a firm believer in letting credit fall where it may; Please direct your appreciation to Flopot.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 22 weeks ago
#36

Thank you, Flopot! You have given us some really good links! Much appreciated!
And thank you, DAnneMarc for your reply.

Thom's Blog Is On the Move

Hello All

Thom's blog in this space and moving to a new home.

Please follow us across to hartmannreport.com - this will be the only place going forward to read Thom's blog posts and articles.

From Unequal Protection, 2nd Edition:
"Beneath the success and rise of American enterprise is an untold history that is antithetical to every value Americans hold dear. This is a seminal work, a godsend really, a clear message to every citizen about the need to reform our country, laws, and companies."
Paul Hawken, coauthor of Natural Capitalism and author of The Ecology of Commerce
From Screwed:
"Thom Hartmann’s book explains in simple language and with concrete research the details of the Neo-con’s war against the American middle class. It proves what many have intuited and serves to remind us that without a healthy, employed, and vital middle class, America is no more than the richest Third World country on the planet."
Peter Coyote, Actor and author of Sleeping Where I Fall
From Cracking the Code:
"No one communicates more thoughtfully or effectively on the radio airwaves than Thom Hartmann. He gets inside the arguments and helps people to think them through—to understand how to respond when they’re talking about public issues with coworkers, neighbors, and friends. This book explores some of the key perspectives behind his approach, teaching us not just how to find the facts, but to talk about what they mean in a way that people will hear."
Paul Loeb, author of Soul of a Citizen