Will Congress approve Obama's plan to police the world?
By Thom Hartmann A...
Over the weekend, President Obama announced that he will ask Congress for authorization for a military strike in Syria. In a press conference on Saturday, the president said, “While I believe I have the authority to carry out this military action without specific congressional authorization, I know the country will be stronger if we take this course, and our actions will be even more effective.” Only one week ago, it appeared that President Obama would make this important decision alone, but instead he has laid the issue at the feet of a divided Congress. And, the outcome is far from certain.
The president's proposal may pass the democratically-controlled Senate, with the help of a few Republicans like Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham. However, Tea Party senators like Rand Paul, and liberals like Bernie Sanders, could join forces to block the measure. In the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, the president may have an even tougher time getting approval to strike in Syria. Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi has come out in favor of President Obama's plan, saying it's “in our national security interest and in furtherance of regional stability and global security.” But, it's doubtful that House Speaker John Boehner can get his party together for a rank-and-file vote in either direction.
Some congressional Republicans have shown support for the President's policy, but Representatives Tom Cole and Mike Turner have already expressed their opposition to the plan. Just considering congressional approval is extremely complicated, and that doesn't even begin to address all the questions surrounding this possible strike. Many Americans, and their elected leaders, have strong feelings about how we should proceed in Syria. President Obama hasn't yet explained why our nation should police the world, but at least there will be debate about bombing a foreign nation.
Comments
#2
I Just Can't Believe It !! You mean our disastrous bipartisan congressional relations crisis might actually produce a positive outcome like avoiding any and all military conflict as much as possible?
Talk about irony! Boy, black never looked better on my kettle! Let's mark this day on the calendar so that we can celebrate it next year! The day when an 'obvious' wrong actually produces something righteous for a change! Maybe we can call it, "Ya never know day!"
How about instead of sending an assualt, we send our brave troops over, with ample media, to stand as defense inbetween the victims and the oppressors. Maybe even offer displacement to victims who would rather relocate than endure these hardships.
This way we could get mountains of political weapons against Bashaar especially if huge numbers of people are desperate to get out as soon as possible.
#3
Right on, Vegasman56! Indeed! Our nation continues to suffer the shame, humiliation and degradation of thousands of unnecessary deaths due to lack of decent health care while a few wealthy people, who make lots of money on killing less fortunate people, try to make a case for murdering many more civilians in Syria.
As pointed out on the Max Keiser show, China is surpassing the US as the world's leading superpower in many ways. I think the chickensh!t war lords and war mongers (Republicans and Democrats) in the US had better watch their step. They are about to ignite another potential world war and they just might not come out on top this time!
Can you imagine Americans (USians) being forced to pay massive war reparations as did Germany after WWI? Maybe we should impeach, in the US, all war lords, war criminals, and war jingoes before they make a real mess of the world. I listened to that DNC dummy Debbie Wasserman begging for war against Syria. Yeah, Duh! She is jewish, of course! And Israel is all hawish against Syria...why? because Assad doesn't bow down and kiss Israels backside. These Jews, Christians, and Muslims are about to rip the world apart....again!
There is no evidence that Assad was behind the chemical attack! In fact, there is more evidence that the US (and their Al Qaida mercenaries-the rebels), Israel, Britain, Qatar and Saudi Arabia were behind it than there is for Assad. Yet, all you hear on US TV is the very predominant assumption that Assad was behind it all. They sure don't mention those hacked emails from Britam Defences, a British company that, for large sums of money, assists governments to achieve their military goals. Kind of like Haliburton and Stratfor, I would imagine. Remember the leaked Stratfor emails...and how they enlightened the world about their covert activiites.
The following happened in January of this year...way before the actual chemical attack:
"The leaked emails, obtained by a hacker in Germany, feature an exchange between Britam Defence's Business Development Director David Goulding and the company's founder Philip Doughty; Phil We've got a new offer. It's about Syria again. Qataris propose an attractive deal and swear that the idea is approved by Washington. We'll have to deliver a CW to Homs, a Soviet origin g-shell from Libya similar to those that Assad should have. They want us to deploy our Ukrainian personnel that should speak Russian and make a video record. Frankly, I don't think it's a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous. Your opinion? Kind regards David"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sEx6t_WWts [watch the first part about the hacked emails]
Assad, since he is now being, perhaps falsely, blamed for the chemical attack, and if we invade Syria, Assad may have already distributed chem weapons thoughout his region (or maybe even in the US..just waiting to be triggered by an encrypted phone call or computer message...email...twitter?) to select targets and there would be no way the US could keep them from using them against even more civilians. Would a desperate dictator like Assad do such a thing if the US invaded? Most likely! Would Assad use his scud missiles to carry payloads of chem weapons to targets in Israel? Most Likely! Would Russia and other countries get involved to fight US imperialism and hegemony? Now that is a big question isn't it? Are we looking down the barrel of WWIII?
#4
We can not sit around and let this happen. BUT, as I said before its someone elses turn. What about Finland, Croatia, Holland etc, etc. Why do countries like these all get a free pass.
Why the hell would the US borrow money from China to protect oil going to China? China can send there troops in.
I have a better idea, strike the countries that are selling the weapons to Assad.
#5
"The symptoms suggest that the weaponized compound Agent-15 was responsible. Syria denied using chemical weapons and said it would never use them against citizens.
Speaking to Pentagon reporters at the time, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said his biggest concern was how the U.S. and allies would secure the chemical and biological weapons sites scattered across Syria and ensure the components don't end up in the wrong hands if the regime falls, particularly under violent conditions."
Remember, that the US aided Aghanistan war lords to rid Afghanistan of the Russian occupiers and that turned around to bite us because the US just pulled out and left behind untold numbers of weapons and munitions that Al Qaida used against the US when the US invaded and occupied Afghanistan and Iraq. We could see the same scenario being played out in Syria. Assad in Syria, like Saddam Husein in Iraq, may have not have been model leaders but when they are ousted and terrorist organizations like Al Qaida are left to amass what remains of the military hardware and munitions they just turn around and use them against the US. And, believe me, you sure don't want Al Qaida to have lots of chemical weapons!!!
This is from an archived web site that shows the original article that has either been banned or censored. They are now claiming that the hacked emails were fabricated..or, were they really?!
http://web.archive.org/web/20130129213824/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2270219/U-S-planned-launch-chemical-weapon-attack-Syria-blame-Assad.html
#6
Quote kend:I have a better idea, strike the countries that are selling the weapons to Assad.
Hmmm!! I wonder who that could be? ;-o
Do you know who was selling chemical weapons to both Iran and Iraq before Iraq used chemical weapons against the Iranians and the Kurds? Lots of countries including the US and Israel!
Quote GWU:GeorgeWashingtonUniversity :
Document 1: United States Embassy in Turkey Cable from Richard W. Boehm to the Department of State. "Back Up of Transshipment Cargos for Iraq," November 21, 1980.
Shortly after the beginning of the Iran-Iraq war, the U.S. embassy in Ankara reports that Turkish ports have a backlog of goods awaiting transshipment to Iraq, and that a substantial amount of Israeli goods transit Turkey for "Islamic belligerents," including Israeli chemical products for Iran. It remarks on "Israeli acumen" in selling to both Iran and Iraq.
The Iran-Iraq war was a tragedy for Iraqis and Iranians, resulting in hundreds of thousands of casualties and immense material damage. It was sustained by an arms bazaar made up of a broad spectrum of foreign governments and corporations: British, Spanish, Italian, French, German, Brazilian, Argentinean, Chilean, North Korean, Chinese, South African, Eastern European, Israeli, American, etc., who found both combatants eager consumers of weapons, ammunition, and military technology. Iran needed U.S.-origin weapons compatible with the military infrastructure created by the U.S. during the shah's reign, could not buy them directly, and had to rely on third-party suppliers like Israel.
http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/ Documents at the bottom of this GWU report.
#7
You would have to be deaf dumb blind and stupid not to see that this is a total set-up. But of course you are dealing with the Obama administration and Pelosi and Harry Reid. Don't do it you morons. We can only hope that the tea party conservatives will vote no and can drag us away from the cliff. Good article by Yossef Bodansky on what may have happened. Look it up.
#8
Quote gwu:Document 24: Department of State, Bureau of Politico-Military Affairs Information Memorandum from Jonathan T. Howe to George P. Shultz. "Iraq Use of Chemical Weapons," November 1, 1983.
Officials from the State Department's Bureau of Politico-Military Affairs tell Secretary Shultz that the department has additional information confirming Iraq's "almost daily" use of chemical weapons. They note, "We also know that Iraq has acquired a CW production capability, presumably from Western firms, including possibly a U.S. foreign subsidiary." The issue is to be added to the agenda for an upcoming National Security Council meeting, at which measures to assist Iraq are to be considered. The officials note that a response is important in order to maintain the credibility of U.S. policy on chemical warfare.
--------------
http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
Document 59: Department of State, Bureau of Politico-Military Affairs Briefing Paper. "Iraqi Illegal Use of Chemical Weapons," November 16, 1984.
Indicates that the U.S. concluded some time ago that Iraq had used "domestically produced lethal CW" in the Iran-Iraq war, developed in part through "the unwitting and, in some cases, we believe witting assistance" of numerous Western firms. The State Department's Bureau of Politico-Military Affairs thinks that Iraq stopped using chemical weapons in response to a U.S. demarche in November 1983, and resumed their use in February 1984.
--------------------
Document 61: United States District Court (Florida: Southern District) Affidavit. "United States of America, Plaintiff, v. Carlos Cardoen [et al.]" [Charge that Teledyne Wah Chang Albany Illegally Provided a Proscribed Substance, Zirconium, to Cardoen Industries and to Iraq], January 31, 1995.
Former Reagan administration National Security Council staff member Howard Teicher says that after Ronald Reagan signed a national security decision directive calling for the U.S. to do whatever was necessary to prevent Iraq's defeat in the Iran-Iraq war, Director of Central Intelligence William Casey personally led efforts to ensure that Iraq had sufficient weapons, including cluster bombs, and that the U.S. provided Iraq with financial credits, intelligence, and strategic military advice. The CIA also provided Iraq, through third parties that included Israel and Egypt, with military hardware compatible with its Soviet-origin weaponry.
This affidavit was submitted in the course of one of a number of prosecutions, following Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, of U.S. companies charged with illegally delivering military, dual-use, or nuclear-related items to Iraq. (In this case, a Teledyne affiliate was charged will illegally selling zirconium, used in the manufacture of explosives, to the Chilean arms manufacturer Carlos Industries, which used the material to manufacture cluster bombs sold to Iraq.) Many of these firms tried to defend themselves by establishing that providing military materiel to Iraq had been the actual, if covert, policy of the U.S. government. This was a difficult case to make, especially considering the rules of evidence governing investigations involving national security matters.
http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
#9
Global: Thanks for that information about Yosseph Bodanski's article! Very revealing!
http://www.globalresearch.ca/did-the-white-house-help-plan-the-syrian-ch...
Looks like the real war criminals are not currently sitting in power in Syria!
#11
I still haven't heard the United Nations suggested by anyone in this matter. Why have a UN? This is why they were created in the first place. Didn't Clinton sign away all of our sovereignty to the UN when in office. I swear this is all an illegal charade the success of which depends on the ignorance of the people. Yet the full blame falls squarely on the UN for not flexing it's muscles.
Palindromedary ~ You are right! This could very easily lead to WWIII. That is why we have a UN in the first place. That is where approval for any action needs to be centered--not our congress. Our congress and President together only count for one vote in the UN. The UN is the final deciding factor as to what is done in and about Syria or any other country in the world including the USA.
#12
Quote Palindromedary:"The leaked emails, obtained by a hacker in Germany, feature an exchange between Britam Defence's Business Development Director David Goulding and the company's founder Philip Doughty; Phil We've got a new offer. It's about Syria again. Qataris propose an attractive deal and swear that the idea is approved by Washington. We'll have to deliver a CW to Homs, a Soviet origin g-shell from Libya similar to those that Assad should have. They want us to deploy our Ukrainian personnel that should speak Russian and make a video record. Frankly, I don't think it's a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous. Your opinion? Kind regards David"
Palindromedary ~ Oh, no! There goes my ears again! Look out across the room. "Kind regards????" What the hell is that? Some kind of a sarcastic joke?
One question, "Britam" Defence Business Development Director? Is that is misspelling for Britain, or the name of a company? Inquiring minds what to know.
#13
No more war !!!
This congress is war crazy. We dont have any right to bomb a country that has not done anything to us. Let the UN handle this. Isnt that what they are there for???
#14
Right ON DAnneMarc
#15
DAnneMarc: Britam Defences is the name of the company; and no, Britam (although it is a British Company is not mispelled). It is spelled Britam and not Britain. I don't know...maybe it is a contraction of British-American? Like Aramco was Arabian American Oil Company...and now that I think of it...why wouldn't it have been Aramoco (with the extra o to indicate oil)? I don't know perhaps I should have found that out when I actually worked for them many years ago.
At that time, the Iraq-Iran war was going on. The closest I got to that mess was when I traveled up and down the Arabian Gulf side as far north as As-Saffaniya (about 40 miles from the Kuwaiti border)...to Yanbu on the Red Sea side of Saudi Arabia.
I used to listen to my short wave radio to all the propaganda flying about from Iran...yes, they had broadcasts in English as well as Farsi. I listened to Radio Moscow as well. I don't remember listening to anything from Iraq though.
It's funny because I kind of had a premonition of what was to come in Dhahran back in about February of 1983. I even told people at a party I went to. I knew I was soon to leave Saudi Arabia...leave Aramco...I was quitting. I told them that I had a very strong feeling that Dhahran (especially Aramco compound) would be hit by missiles....as they sure were years later, in February of 1991, when Saddam launched his scuds. I know one scud hit a US makeshift barracks that killed 27 US servicemen.
Actually, in fact, I even had told my coworkers on the 10th floor of the 11 story Expat building that someone will likely try to shoot Reagan(666) . And son of a gun if someone didn't try the very next day. I was shocked! Now, I don't really think I am psychic...just quite a coincidence...I'd say.
#16
The West are not there bombing and killing all over the place because there's no oil
What's happening in the Gaza meantime? Cheney got an oil concession whilst we're blindsided
Now political execs are seeking permission to kill because they have no testicles or moral precept
Without permission PUS can only go two ways and you can bet the Brit poodle will follow with support by nefarious manipulation
The two ways are sort of obvious - go Saudi or go Israel
These guys have been at each others throat for centuries
They even got there own religious beliefs around it
I hope they all get over their school yard fight whilst they allow the other 5-6 billion people on the Planet live
And, then let us get on without listening to and having to witness their asinine stupidity
Why don't they get over it???
#17
Our leaders need to realize that the United States is NOT the worlds policeman. What Syria did is horrible, but it is none of our business to attack them militarily. They have done nothing to threaten us. What we and other countries who agree on this position need to do is to impose economic sanctions on them just as we have done to North Korea. All an attack will do is to further worsen our reputation in the area (if that is even possible).
When the genocide was going on in Darfur, did we attack any of the groups involved? NO. How is this any different?
We wonder why the world hates us
#18
This is a job for the UNITED NATIONS!!!
#19
Industry needs strict regulation. Individual people need no regulation. We call that FREEDOM!! The problem is that current law is favoring the opposite. We need to bring back constitutional law and banish industrial interests from our Government. Move to Amend and Campaign Finance Reform NOW!!!
#20
Ever wonder what Dhahran, Saudi Arabia looks like? Here is a video from about 4-5 months ago of a drive through one of the residential areas of Dhahran: Lots more trees than I remember..and a lot greener...wow! 30 years ago...doesn't seem that long ago. I wish this video had shown the Expat Center, tower and more of the recreational areas..etc. But the Saudis are very fussy about picture or video taking...and that was so even before Saddam's scuds. I still have a phone book.
http://www.aramcoexpats.com/articles/2013/04/a-driving-tour-of-dhahran/
#21
President Obama is a Republican Trojan Horse. I can't believe I ever voted for this ineffective sellout.
#22
Mr. Hartmann, I agree with you most of the time, but "police the world"???? C'mon.
#23
Perhaps world needs to police Obama and his fellow war mongers! And yes, exactly, Obama is a Republican Trojan Horse as are all those other Democrats who act just like Republican war mongers...Like Debbie Wasserman and Diane Feinstein just to name a few. Yes, I voted for the weasel the first time but wised up before making the same mistake again.
#24
Quote Palindromedary:Perhaps world needs to police Obama and his fellow war mongers! And yes, exactly, Obama is a Republican Trojan Horse as are all those other Democrats who act just like Republican war mongers...Like Debbie Wasserman and Diane Feinstein just to name a few. Yes, I voted for the weasel the first time but wised up before making the same mistake again.
Palindromedary ~ Let me also name Nancy Pelosi! OMG I can't wait for the next opportunity to vote these "Beasts" out of office. Good Bye!! Adios!!
#25
Could this decision have somethinfg to do with the fact that the Labor led British will not support a strike on Syria? And could that be because they have so many women in parliament? I look forward to a world with Equal Gender Governments and balanced, sustainable policy making. The USA has aked New Zealand to support this attack, and our Prime Minister says going to war is a decision for only his party to make. This is now a contradiction for him with Obamas change in tactics.
#26
I wasn't awae theat spanking ww the prper way to correct a mischieviouis boy when caught doing sometkhing bad!
#27
I hope Congress does not vote for AUMF, but I fear that Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are going to threaten most Democrats and get them to go along with this completely insane mission "to teach Syria a lesson." All it will really do is get us into a never-ending war in the Middle East when Iran and Hezbollah join forces with Syria.
I have written to my senators and congressional representative many times about Syria, and I'm not hopeful. Tammy Baldwin talks a good game, but she's new to the Senate, and I fear the powers that be in the Democratic Party will pressure her until she goes along with them. She's been very cagey about her positions on major issues and will not give definite answers about how she will vote on Social Security, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, or Syria. I think she will vote the party line in each case. Ron Johnson will probably vote to go to war as well. He hasn't answered my email or my postcard to him on the issue of Syria. The one bright spot on this issue seems to be Jim Sensenbrenner, who has said in letters to me that he doesn't want to arm the Syrian rebels because he is "fearful that those weapons could be used against the United States or its allies." He goes on to say that he tried unsuccessfully to remove two provisions from the NDAA: one "stating that the President should consider all courses of action to remove President Bashar al-Assad from power" and one stating that "the President should enforce the redlines he set regarding the Assad regime's use of chemical weapons." Finally, Congressman Sensenbrenner emphatically states, "I do not support direct U.S. involvement in the Syrian civil war."
I've also signed Alan Grayson's, Move-On.org's, and a number of other petitions to keep us out of Syria, and on Saturday I joined in a Peace Action Wiconsin anti-war demonstration in downtown Milwaukee. These actions made me feel good, but that's a long way from doing any good.
#28
bobcox ~ With all due respect, I'm having a hard time understanding you. Could you restate what you just said. Please type slowly and carefully. I understand your apprehension.
#29
Syria has WMD”s and we need to go get ‘em? Geez, where have I heard that one before?
This whole scene is reminding me of Reagan ordering a strike on Lybia in 1986. Can anyone recall when our planes crossed Gaddafi”S “line of death?”
Don’t these mideast issues go all the way back to “the shores of Tripoli?” Seems like I recall some military song about marines involved in one of those north Africa places. The year 1805, was it?
Getting the big picture?
Btw, Obama does not need anyone’s “permission” to order a military strike. That issue was settled in 1973 with the War Powers Act.
Meanwhile, I’ll be humming the tune, “From the Halls of Montezuma, To the shores of Tripoli…” while everyone wonders if we’ll do it again.
#30
So the question is, will the GOP hold the military action hostage until we figure out which domestic programs to cut? Hey, if they were mental enough to hold disaster relief hostage, what the hell. In fact I recall some of them saying that disaster relief for Hurricane Sandy was wasteful spending. So which domestic programs do we cut in order to fund our self appointed world police organization? C'mon all you austerity freaks, King, Landry, Garrett, Lummis, Labrador, speak up.....how about more cuts to Meals on Wheels? What was it $38.7 million already? .....that should pay for a couple of bombs.
I agree with Thom, it's about oil, money, and power once again. The "police" only care when its ffffinnnn convenient to big oil. Genocide where there is no oil goes unpunished...gee whiz!
We are better than responding to violence with even more violence, although Rand Paul qualified this to mean only violence against Christians in Syria concerned him. Just as a reminder to Rand, Christ taught an absolutely uncompromising emphasis upon the renunciation of violence. I think this means everyone regardless of affiliation.
#31
Will any senator ask how much the USA has already $$$pent to cause destabilzation in Syria?
Will any senator ask how much the USA has $$$pent so far to foment religious war and ethnic cleansing in Syria?
The USA has already gone to war in Syria! (Just like Clinton already bombed and starved Iraq before Bush got to sadisticly enjoy his Shock and Awe Operation Iraqi Liberation (OIL) BLITZKRIEG!)
All Obama is seeking is a Public Relations marker.
USA aggression is blatent and, by now, ROUTINE. And totally UNACCEPTABLE.
And nauseating.
#32
1/26/2013
Emails hacked from a British company that indicates they got a very sizable offer to stage a chemical attack in Syria in order to frame Assad.
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8/1/2013
Quote CommonDreams article:
After the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence last week passed the Obama administration's controversial plan to funnel arms to Syrian rebels fighting the regime of President Bashar al-Assad, the vote and debate remain hidden from the public under the label of "classified" information.
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In fact, ask individual members of the committee, who represent 117 million people in 14 states, how they stood on the plan to use the CIA to funnel weapons to the rebels and they are likely to respond with the current equivalent of “none of your business:” It’s classified.Those were, in fact, the words Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., chair of the committee, used when asked a few days before the approval was granted to clarify her position for her constituents. She declined. It’s a difficult situation, she said. And, “It’s classified.”
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The move to arm Syrian rebels comes amid Obama administration deliberation over potential direct military strikes.Members of the US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence who refuse to reveal their position on Syrian arms include: Dianne Feinstein (D), John D. Rockefeller IV (D), Ron Wyden (D), Barbara A. Mikulski (D), Mark Udall (D), Mark Warner (D), Martin Heinrich (D), Angus King (I), Saxby Chambliss (R), Richard Burr (R), James E. Risch (R), Daniel Coats (R), Marco Rubio (R), Susan Collins (R), Tom Coburn (R), Harry Reid (D), Mitch McConnell (R), Carl Levin (D), and James Inhofe (R).
https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/08/01-8
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8/21/2013
Chemical attack in Syria.
-------------------------------------------------
8/26/2013
WND-World News Daily exclusive report:
Evidence: Syria gas attack work of U.S. allies
Contrary evidence arises as U.S. considers punishing Assad regime
Published: 08/26/2013 at 9:33 PM
author-image Jerome R. Corsi
http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/video-shows-rebels-launching-gas-attack-in-sy...
#33
I don't know who gassed who in Syria, but I believe that Obama and Kerry are lying about it, especially when they say that the Assad regime are the only ones capable of the gassing. I find Carla del Ponte of the UN human rights commission more credible when she talks of the gas attacks last May and the evidence that pointed to the rebels. I also believe the Turkish government when thyey reported arrested 12 terrorists of the Al Nusra brigade (affiliates of Al Qaida) at the Syrian border with 2 kilos of sarin.
Kerry keeps talking about how history will judge us if we do nothing. How has history judged us for supplying nerve gas (made in New Jersy) to Sadam and then helping him tasrget Iranians with it in the Iraq Iran war?
Kerry also said some little missle strikes are not "going to war". Is he serious? He wouldn't consider it an act of war if Syria sent a few missles to blow up a few targets in DC?
WE DO NOT NEED TO ADD TO THE KILLING IN SYRIA!!!
All parties need to come to the table with no preconditions. I see no future for our children if we can't work things out peacefully.
#34
Here's a very cute Syrian girl setting the record straight:
#35
On RT...
License to Kill UK approved sale of nerve gas chemicals to Syria
UK Ok'd sale of chemicals to Syria as country spiraled into civil war
Published on Sep 3, 2013
British firms recently sold Syria chemicals which can be used to make nerve gas - the agent allegedly used during last month's deadly attack near Damascus. It's been revealed that London granted export licences last January, when Syria was already ravaged by civil war. RT's Sara Firth reports.
#36
Parlindroedary i read that report as well from the on- line version of the independants news paper a few days ago .
I feel deeply ashamed that my country could create and distribute these nerve agents and sell them to Syria .We need more information on this i will do some digging.
#37
Why can't we "sit around and let this happen?" We've sat around and done nothing while cruel dictators abuse their own people in any number of countries around the world. Why, all of a sudden, is it being forced upon us to act on behalf of the insurgents in Syria? The word that comes to mind is OIL. It's the same thing that has propelled wars - even unannounced wars - in South America in the 70's, the 80's, the 90's and now the 21st century. It's the same propaganda machine that has learned so well the art of advertising. It's disgusting.
#38
DAMNED IF WE DO AND DAMNED IF WE DON'T!
Obama, the master of words, has successfully pushed America into a corner. He has layed a guilt trip on the leadership in a most artfully crafted manner. Now, if any of those yokels in Congress disagree with him, they appear to have no humanity. They don't even know if what he says is true or if, in fact, this has been a well-enacted, video taped, play put on by the rebels to bring about U.S. action. And the lies keep coming.
Lie: Putin doesn't care about humanity and is putting up road blocks to helping these people who have been gased.
Truth: Putin does care, probably more than Obama. But he said in a statement recently that it is wiser to wait for the UN investigators to complete their investigation and then have a coalition of forces behind factually-based action in which he would join. That makes more sense to me.
Truth: Obama is extremely pissed because he (Putin) would not turn Snowden over on demand. That's a sore spot with Obama that just won't heal. And after a year, the wound is still festering to boiling over. And guess what! Obama's going to show him, and everyone is going to suffer for this "get even" scheme he has cooked up.
This entire conversation by Obama and Kerry is one of the most carefully crafted sales pitches for getting involved in Syria that I've seen to date. Unlike Bush's war of opportunity in Iraq following the 9/11 disaster (an attack which could have been avoided), Obama has Iron Clad Proof of Syria having and using chemical weapons on his own people. Unfortunately, he can only tell congress and the American people that which has been declassified to tell. Of course, there is also proof that cannot be shown to the public so there will be a private session with congress where SOME of that other proof will be shown. But of course, there is also additional proof that even congress cannot be shown. Mr. Transparency personifide.
Yes, he has successfully shamed leaders of the Senate in a very public manner into making them see that we are absolute Heathens if we don't act to save the Syrian people from further chemical attacks. Just look at all those bodies, young and old, just laying on the ground dead or dying from exposure to gas and then say they don't need help. I just dare you.
Wow! He's good. He almost had me sold. I still think Putin is making the wiser choice. This war has been going on in Syria for two years. We had two years to help them. Why the big rush now? And why has Israel been so silent for the past few months? Not a peep until she tested some missile this weekend. And not another peep from her since then.
Lie: We'll be in and out in 90 days.
In fact, we're being walked into the big one. The only thing I don't understand, and maybe someone can explain it to me. The atrocious conduct of the U.S. over the past 20 years against other countries seems to be condoned by the U.N. No one here is being punished by the international community for war crimes. Even Gen. Colin Powell who sat and lied straight faced to the U.N. General Assembly regarding Iraq, has not been punished. It seems the only people being punished are reporters and whistle blowers.
#39
It has nothing to do with the "we can't sit around and do nothing" argument. The first thing Obama must do is present credible evidence that Assad is responsible for the chemical attack. Frankly, the word of a politician is not enough; quoting from an intelligence summary is not enough. Iraq has taught us that.
Besides, precedent and logic dictate that the rebels (i.e. Al Qaeda) are responsible. Firstly, it is Al Qaeda we are talking about here - the liver eating, civilian butchering terrorist organization that is the sworn enemy of the US. And yet the CIA is arming these guys! Secondly, the Syrian government was pushing back the rebels, so why start using chemical weapons and on the same day the UN inspectors arrive? Does not compute.
Thirdy, the rebels starting posting videos of the chemical attack victims the day before the attack which points to their culpability. Disgusting. Finally, I do not understand how bombing more Syrian civilians will save Syrian civilians. We need a peace conference not escalation.
Anyway, there is more tangible evidence that the rebels are behind the latest attack and previous ones...
http://www.mintpressnews.com/witnesses-of-gas-attack-say-saudis-supplied...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22424188
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/357587
http://21stcenturywire.com/2013/08/22/chemical-weapons-media-propaganda-...
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/does-obama-know-hes-fighting...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/point-by-point-rebuttal-of-u-s-case-for-war...
Call your senators and representatives and tell them not to be fooled by more lies like Iraq. Otherwise you will vote 3rd party (which you should be doing anyway, doh!).
#40
Barack Obama is proposing that we go to war in protest of Chemical Weapons attacks by the Assad regime on the people of Syria. According to an article in the Mint Press News, the Syrian rebels have admitted responsibility for the release of chemicals they had received from Saudi Arabian Prince Bandar, intended for Jabal al Mudra (http://www.mintpressnews.com/witnesses-of-gas-attack-say-saudis-supplied-rebels-with-chemical-weapons/168135/ ). John Kerry and other members of the administration continue to accuse Syrian President Bashar al-Assad of the chemical weapons attack.
When the sabre rattling becomes so loud that government propaganda is all that can be heard, there must be an ulterior motive to the chaos. In 2011, Iran, Iraq and Syria negotiated a deal to construct a gas pipeline that would send energy directly to the EU. Essentially, this pipeline would tempt the EU to break Iranian sanctions and take cheaper gas from the expansive Iranian oil and gas fields. (http://www.naturalgasasia.com/iran-iraq-syria-gas-pipeline-europe-2 ). Also, this pipeline cuts US ally, Qatar, out of sending their gas to Europe. Could these be the real reasons for taking on war torn Syria?
Since we can see that personal suffering is superfluous to government officials, due to growing poverty and continuing economic problems in the United States, protecting the financial interests of US allies and corporate interests must lie at the core of our current wars. The use of Chemical Weapons is just another false flag.
#41
Oh The Tanglede Web We Weave.
As much as I appreciate everyones enthusiasm and passion...If you truely want to stop this Coporate demagogue Government, with its profit before people agenda, from engaging in, in general, unecessary Military action...
movetoamend.org
Time to take back what is rightfully ours.
Abolish Corporate Personhood...NOW!!!
#42
Palindromedary ~ Concerning the "Revalation" of the use of depleted uranium on Iraq and Revalations. You might find this tidbit interesting.
Quote The Book of Revelations, chapter 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
The "whore" is defined in context as Babylon, or modern day Iraq. Certainly depleted uranium qualifies for "...eat her flesh, and burn her with fire." Certainly depleted uranium qualifies for making a land "...desolate and naked." Another instance of quite literal interpretation. Coincidence? You be the judge!
Regardless of whether or not this fulfills prophecy, the use of depleted uranium on anyone for any reason should qualify as the greatest war crime and crime against humanity in history. It literally makes a land uninhabitable and causes birth defects of perfectly innocent lives. All of our leaders should be on trial in a world court. Where is the outrage?
No wonder why our current Administration isn't even considering consulting the United Nations. The UN is the closest thing we have to a real world police. The last thing a killer would do before committing murder is to call the police.
#43
The international bankers want to control the mideast and Eurasia as a whole. Actions by the government of the United States only further these billionaires' dreams of global "conquest." BERNIE SANDERS is a prominent freethinking independent and should be supported in his opposition to US intervention.
#44
A Message from Dennis Kucinich: Please Sign The PetitionQuote Dennis Kucinich:Dear Friends,Next week Congress will vote on whether to wage war on Syria, a Middle Eastern nation in the middle of a civil war.
Whether you’re Independent, Democrat, Republican, or Green; if you care about our nation, NOW is the time to stand together to direct Congress to reject war on Syria.Sign and share the PLEDGE to Congress that this vote on war with Syria will help determine your support for, or opposition to, any candidate in future elections.
I PLEDGE to vote against any Member of Congress, regardless of partisan affiliation, who votes YES to an attack on Syria. Join me.
Al Qaeda affiliates, whom we have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan for more than a decade, are known to be leading some of the rebel groups.
We cannot afford another war of choice. The government could shut down over budget talks in less than a month. What will Congress do? Vote for war on credit card one day and then shut down the U.S. government the next?
Some political leaders are calling for war in order to protect the President’s credibility. Why should our sons and daughters put their lives at risk to protect political vanity?
Speak to Congress in language they will understand:
Thank you.
-Dennis
#45
humanitys team: Good! Keep digging...we need to expose these war criminals before they start another World War...it may be too late!
#46
DAnneMarc: I've heard of the "whore of Babylon" but not that Babylon was the whore itself. I knew that ancient Babylon was in Iraq and somewhere very close to Baghdad. I don't know do you think males can be classified as "whores"? Was Saddam Hussein the "Whore of Babylon"? I know his sons had a lot of whores...and even innocent virgins against their will...ie: raped...as I understand it. Otherwise women in Iraq during Saddam Hussein's reign were way more liberated than most in the Middle East.
By the way...those are all very interesting stories and fun to ponder but I wouldn't put a lot of importance in the reality of them.
-----------------
Around, or shortly before the time of the Biblical Jesus, the messianic and militant group of Jews, the Zealots**,living in a village called Qumran (near the Dead Sea) worshiped someone who they called The Teacher of Righteousness, someone they also called The Messiah. The discovery, and eventual deciphering of The Dead Sea Scrolls, gave us a glimpse into the real beginnings and origins or Christianity. Were they really following a teacher of love and peace?
The belief in a Messiah did not start with Jesus. It had long been prophesied many hundreds of years BC that a Messiah would come to lead the Jews in their struggle against the Romans. The original idea was that the Messiah would lead them to a military victory to drive the Romans out of Judea. This Messiah was also supposed to be able to heal the sick, make the dead to live (raise the dead), proclaim glad tidings to the poor. The historical belief of the Jews was that it was God that did the resurrecting and not a man...not some half man, half god. But here, in the DSS, was for the first time, a man..a Messiah...who they called The Teacher of Righteousness...(and certainly not "Jesus" or any of the other names Christians recognize as Jesus..except maybe "messiah" which there were many..not just one)..someone who, the Zealots believed, could do all these things...but militarily. And they tried and failed.
There was also another group, or perhaps the same of closely aligned group called the Sicarii whose curved daggers have their name. They would sneak up behind Roman soldiers in crowded markets and stab them in the back then hide their daggers in their loose clothing and slip away into the crowds.
So, did the Romans create a new Christian religion...a peace-loving, turn the other cheek, give unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar(dutifully pay your taxes), never rebel against your master kind of religion out of the myth of Jesus who was really a messiah who violently rebelled against the Roman Empire? The Romans were smart...they knew how to use psychology to subvert people. So they created, with the help of Josephus, a new religion based on the Zealots and turned a militaristic Jewish lot into a peace loving lot with the newly created peace loving messiah that came to be known as Jesus. Yeshua...whatever! "Jesus" is a Latinized form of a Greek name anyway.
Remember that the DSS were held by an exclusively Christian group for about 40 years and while there were insiders, like John Allegro* who leaked some ideas and wrote books on the subject, this controlling group of Christians did not want anyone else to scrutinize the scrolls in order to prevent anyone else from challenging their interpretations. The DSS eventually found their way to various scholars outside the group to people like Robert Eisenman, Michael Wise, and then to the Huntington Library near LA.
Christians believe that Jesus started a pacifist religion..the early Christian church that taught peace..to "love one's neighbor" and "turn the other cheek" but many of the scrolls, will closely paralleling what is in the Bible. But, many of the DSS depict violence and vengeance. Even St. Paul modified his teachings to make them more acceptable to the Romans.
The DSS depict more of a historical reality but the stories in the Bible, where there really isn't any valid historical data, is more of a Hellenistic Romance. The DSS scrolls are an unmodified depiction of pre-Christian history whereas the Bible is a hodgepodge of many, many times modified by early and later church fathers who reinterpreted the writings and beliefs of their day. There were, in fact, many different early christian beliefs many of whose early church scribes recorded them on parchments that were all scrutinized at the 1st Council of Nicea under the scrutiny of Pagan Emperor Constantine. All these church bishops from around the lands were made to hash out what was going to be the unified official church doctrine..the official stories that would become the Bible. And even then, later church bishops modified the interpretations. Some documents that had been held up as proof of the existence of Jesus were found to be blatant forgeries that have long been recognize as forgeries by many church authorities.
Robert Eisenman and Michael Wise attended a conference in New York City during a Christmas season. They were attacked, in the conference, by Prof. Lawrence Schiffman, and others, for their "unorthodox" views. Later, he was interviewed as he walked down one well decorated streets.
Quote Robert Eisenman:
At the conference, we had a kind of inquisition directed against us...to try to discredit us in the public eye..to try to make our ideas suspect. What I believe was going on in the conference was a last gasp effort by the establishment to control the turf that they've been in control of for the last 35 or 40 years. What is it about my ideas that they are worried about? In fact, I think, the problem with my ideas is that it would contradict a good deal of what we see here..their version of ideas, of Christianity as a kind of peaceful cosmopolitan greetings of good cheer. The kind of thing we are talking about in the DSS is that we have in Palestine a messianic movement that it is much more aggressive, much more apocalyptic, much more militant, much more of this-worldly oriented, a kind of army of God in camps along the Dead Sea and/or out in the wilderness. A group preparing for a final apocalyptic war against all evil on the earth. It contrasts very, very starkly with all the imagery that we have before us here (all the Christmas decorations and songs).
--
/*(a freethinker who trained for the Methodist Ministry and became, in 1961, Honorary Adviser on the Dead Sea Scrolls to the Jordanian government. He authored 13 books...some of which are:
The Dead Sea Scrolls
The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Christian Myth
The Treasure of the Copper Scroll
The Sacred Mushroom and The Cross
The Holy Mushroom--Evidence of Mushrooms in Judeo-Christiantiy
)*/-- http://johnallegro.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJvc1VB6WJU
---
**note: It was initially believed that the Jews living at Qumran were Essenes but it was also believed that the Essenes were very peaceful; but, the DSS language was not language of a peaceful people so either they were mistaken that the Essenes were peaceful or mistaken that the Essenes lived in Qumran...other possibilities exist as well.
---------------------
Did you know that there are 14,800 differences between the oldest known Bible, the "Sinai Bible", housed in a British Museum. And if you want to get a better idea of just how much the King James Bible is the "inerrant word of God" then just read this: Behind The Bible Fraud - What Was The Church Trying To Hide?..by Robert Adams
#47
Thanks for all the great links....Flopot and Notadoormat! Very good information! Pipeline through Syria to Europe sounds like a repeat of the pipeline through Afghanistan. Also, the Baghdad to Berlin pipeline prior to WWI that ticked off the Brits against Germany. In the case of the Afghanistan pipeline, the US wanted it...and in the case of the Syrian pipeline they don't. At least Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and the US doesn't want it because it would assist Iran in distributing their gas. And anything that helps Iran is a problem for those countries.
And deep pocket Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia is the CIA's darling so he is always assisting in any way he can...fund the manufacture of chemical weapons in Saudi Arabia and give them to Al Qaida rebels in Syria using, perhaps, the British company, Britam Defences perhaps, to facilitate it all. Those hacked Britam Defences emails referring to a very lucrative deal (or however it was put) and CW weapons to be sent to Homs, Syria may have been referring to funding by Bandar.
And those reports of young rebels who actually carried those unusual looking shells (as they described to their mothers and the mothers later reported it) and storing them in a tunnel was interesting evidence that it was the rebels who carried out the chemical attack...maybe it wasn't an actual attack..maybe just an accident. Remember Bhopal, India accident? Maybe India should have attacked the US..and specifically Union Carbide plants in the US!
#48
Palindromedary ~ Thanks for that link. I will have to make time to graze on it. However, for now, I'm more worried about the possiblility of WWIII.
Quote Palindromedary:DAnneMarc: I've heard of the "whore of Babylon" but not that Babylon was the whore itself. I knew that ancient Babylon was in Iraq and somewhere very close to Baghdad. I don't know do you think males can be classified as "whores"? Was Saddam Hussein the "Whore of Babylon"?
Of course a man, or anything else can be a whore. Basically, a whore sells her body for profit. If a country sells it's national resources for profit is it not also a whore? Have you ever looked at an oil pump in motion? It drives air into a hole in the ground in order to extract the national resource from the land. Is that not a sexual innuendo? Remember, "The Beast ascended out of the bottomless pit." What a better way of describing an oil well than a bottomless pit--especially when the supply of oil is considered endless? Remember, "The whore had in her hand a cup full of the filthyness of her fornifications with the Kings of the earth. The Kings who waxed rich due to the fortifications with the whore." The cup is full of oil. What else?
I'm sorry if the prophecy is hard to swallow; but, in my humble opinion it fits the description perfectly. Coincidence? Maybe! But a damn good coincidence at that.
Now on to stopping WWIII--if we can...
#49
Yes, DAnneMarc, you are right! WWIII is way more important.
Ewwww! "had her hand in a cup full of...." yuk! "prophecy hard to swallow..." ...think I'm gonna be sick! Or, maybe just watch another porno movie!
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The pride of the Republicans, Reagan did not seek congressional approval when he attacked any country, the Republican, conservative, tea party wants Pres. Obama to seek Congress’s approval. That’s a double standard, that is the new Republican, Conservative, Tea party way. And that is not democracy.
We should not be the world’s police department or its big brother. Why should this country spend the excessive amounts of money on military hardware such as, missiles, super high-tech jet fighters, more M1 tanks then we need, instead of providing a national health insurance for all, a program that will provide adequate food for the hungry who can’t afford it, have the government, is the employer of last resort, and provide more funds for public schools and higher education through federal funds to invest in this nations future, But most definitely we should not raise funds to push our military weight and force democracy on a nation with a point of a gun! Greatest weapon a nation or a group of people, is the freedom to express themselves through speech, the press, the right of peaceably to assemble, and partition the government for redress of grievances, that is how democracies work. Democracy will grow in a nation who seeks it, like at the start of our great nation, as I said before it will be through freedom of speech, the press, and the ability and freedom to assemble the protest against their government, but not forced upon the people, all that will do will prevent it.
The question is, can we effectively prevent Bashar Hafez al-Assad the President of Syria from using weapons of mass destruction being used on his own people? But on the other hand who will protect the innocent, the children and the elderly, are the innocent ones. I read a report where Hafez al-Assad is moving such WMD into civilian populated areas, how much collateral damage will there be, the elderly, the children, are the innocent ones. So let’s do not kill any more of the innocent ones. So my answer is no, we do not need any military force to strike at the heart of Bashar Hafez al-Assad the President of Syria.