Don't frack with DC!
The oil and gas industry is already cozy with Washington, but soon they might be neighbors. Fracking companies want to move in to the George Washington National Forest. That forest is one of the largest undeveloped areas east of the Mississippi, and it also supplies water to the DC metro area. In the coming weeks, the U.S. Forest Service must decide whether or not to allow fracking in the National Forest, and they are facing mounting pressure from energy industry lobbying groups. The American Petroleum Institute has called the Forest Service's ban on drilling “plainly unsupported and absurd,” and companies like Chesapeake Energy, Halliburton, ConocoPhillips, and others have criticized the ban as well.
These companies are itching to get their hands on the natural gas deposits under the forest, even if it means destroying one of our national treasures, and contaminating the water supply for nearly nine million people. Of course, the oil and gas industry argues that they can drill for natural gas in “an environmentally responsible manner” - just like they promised in areas all around our nation that are now suffering from toxic chemicals being released into the ground, air, and water.
The fact is, even if there are no spills or accidents, the fracking process still will have a devastating impact on the forest. Water withdrawals, sediment pollution, trucking traffic, and air pollution would harm wildlife, and destroy the local recreational economy. Residents and anti-fracking activists are begging the Forest Service to protect George Washington Nation Forest, as well as all the national lands in our nation. These lands, our commons, belong to the people of our nation, and they should be off limits to the oil and gas industry that would inevitably destroy them.
Comments
Only two percent of the United States (or, for that matter, a very small part of the world) is undeveloped (I got that on reasonably good authority but if that figure isn't quite right, the point is, it's a very miniscule amount of land). Once it's ruined unspoiled wilderness is irreplaceable.
This wild country belongs to all of us and to generations to come. No small, well connected minority that doesn't care about it - like the oil and gas industry - should be allowed to ruin it. Even if a majority of the population can't appreciate its value today a vast majority of the future may well treasure it and be eternally grateful that we, in our shortsightedness, didn't destroy it.
We can't keep on with an 18th and 19th century mentality. Land is not infinite in supply and there are other sources of energy. Fossil fuels are passe anyway and are slowly killing humanity (and all life). So what if the oil and gas people want to profit. Not at expense of OUR natural treasures, planet or environment!
Let them frak in the National Forest...maybe our congressmen will get sick from it and finally decide to outlaw fraking.
The Forest Service Ban on drilling is a bad idea. ALL DRILLING SHOULD BE BANNED. Oil is obsolete, with all other fossil fuels. It is now and always has been a dangerous and unpredictable alternative to natural sources of energy. Time to cut our losses and ban them all. We don't have any problem banning drugs and contraceptives. Time to ban all fossil fuels!
DAnneMarc what mode of transportation, other than horse or mule, do you approve of? Do you ask UPS and USPS to walk your mail and packages to you? I assume you don't use planes, trains and cars.
akunard ~ http://thehempsolution.blogspot.com/
Mark & Marc - I couldn't agree more. The thought of those friggin' hacks defiling and ruining our national forests makes my blood boil. National forests are a national treasure, as you've stated; they belong to everyone and to no one. This, and the water supply for nine million DC Metro residents, should weigh in as a much bigger priority than fossil fuel profits. I really wish I had contact info for the right decision makers in the Forest Service, so that I could join the chorus of those objecting to this latest onslought. Will there ever be an end to this abuse?!
Akunard, what you refuse to acknowledge is that alternatives do exist. We need to evolve in that direction as quickly as possible, because the fossil fuel industry has gotten WAY out of control. Don't you like having clean air and water? Or do you take these things entirely for granted? Like ole Joni Mitchel says in one of her songs, you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone. I'll pick clean air & water over fossil fuel any day. - Aliceinwonderland
If we'd declare that we MUST stop global climate change and put the kind of money into it we have put into other major problems--Marshall Plan, moon shot--we could change the way we live right now. Car manufacturers could lower their mpg right now--the mpg in Europe is lower. We could built high-speed trains as they have in Europe and Japan. We could build millions of windmills (and figure out how not to kill birds). We could all lower our thermostats (or raise them in summer), drive less, NEVER idle a car for more than 1 minute, use cold water for washing, hang our clothes on the line, bike and walk more (would help our health too). We could throw serious research money into things that are already going on, like algae into gas, used cooking oil into gas--there are a lot of possible innovations but we need to THROW MONEY at them. We could do this within 10 years. That oil coming through those big pipelines isn't going to the U.S. -- it's going to the gulf to be shipped overseas. Meanwhile, we (taxpayers) will pick up the tab, and I doubt that wild areas and natural areas can ever be fully restored.
Quote Aliceinwonderland:I really wish I had contact info for the right decision makers in the Forest Service, so that I could join the chorus of those objecting to this latest onslought.
Aliceinwonderland ~ The contact info for George Washington and Jefferson National Forest is:
Supervisor's Office
5162 Valleypointe Parkway
Roanoke, VA 24019
1-888-265-0019
540-265-5100
And, can be found on this website:
Unfortunately I couldn't find an Email address. Many Government services are still primitive that way--especially the Forest and Park services.
Barry threw money at "them" and the taxpayers paid the tab.
We have millions of windmills and building more. Get off your duff and travel the mid-west and west and you would see miles of them.
The high speed trains that we have built do not attract riders. Barry wanted to build one between Tampa and Disney -- all studies showed few would ride the thing.
Alice yes is there is alternatives but they cost a lot more. Why can't we use both.
wind and soar can't make plastic. Try and live a day without it.
DAnne plastic is far from obsolete.
Quote stecoop01:Let them frak in the National Forest...maybe our congressmen will get sick from it and finally decide to outlaw fraking.
stecoop01 ~ Oh, I agree my friend, that is a very tempting idea. Although we might be literally throwing the baby out with the bath water. Remember, along with the congressmen who may deserve to drink from that cup will be the likes of Alan Grayson, Bernie Sanders, Barbara Lee, and of course Thom and Louse Hartmann among many other good servants and citizens. I think these guys belong to a club that deserves clean gourmet drinking water.
Besides, allowing this drilling to happen will set a dangerous precedent for other parks, forests, and natural resources around the country. We need to wean ourselves off fossile fuels. We can't afford to let it happen.
Alice, move to Arthur, Il. join the Amish for a year and report back.
Before you leave make a list of the "alternatives that I refuse to acknowledge".
Quote Kend:Alice yes is there is alternatives but they cost a lot more. Why can't we use both.wind and soar can't make plastic. Try and live a day without it.
DAnne plastic is far from obsolete.
Kend ~ We can't use both because fossil fuels pollute the environment. When you factor in the cost of the pollution into the price of the energy source, fossil fuel actually costs a lot more.
I never said plastic is obsolete--I said Oil is Obsolete. Read my blog:
http://thehempsolution.blogspot.com/
You will learn that ANYTHING YOU CAN MAKE OUT OF OIL YOU CAN MAKE OUT OF HEMP. Not only can you make plastic out of Hemp; but, you can make a completely biodegradable form of plastic out of hemp.
Not only that, you can make medicine, cloth, paper, building products, adhesives, paints, rope, cardboard, insulation, and food
Wake up, buddy, and smell the Hemp. The more we use it, the cleaner the atmosphere will be, and the cheaper it's products will become.
akunard ~ Are you really so ignorant that you compare the Amish with someone who has the desire to live under an industrial complex that functions in harmony with nature? Do you have any grasp of the scientific principles of the carbon cycle, how industrialization and agriculture fits into that cycle, or for that matter what the hell beliefs and mores exist in an Amish community?
akunard -- I think it is interesting that you should mention the USPS. The USPS (per Thom) was ready to convert their fleet to all electric until the repugs starting their destructon of the USPS by requiring monstrous contributions to their retirement. Contributions like no other private or public entity.
Akunard, why do we bother?
DAnne, hemp? Do you know how much hemp you would have to grow to replace oil.
The responsible thing to do, would recogthere where this is going before we cut down the last tree. Did someone we are down to only 2-percent of un-disturbed land? This is F'n "wildly" irresponsible management of natural resources. Like the Reagan administration running up the national debt; obviously a huge problem later. This was an emergency a generation ago, when it was obvious where deforestation and burning fossil fuel was headed.. Al gore, and a few scientists, as well as hippies have been trying to warn society for generation.. Now, it at be too late.
Quote Kend:DAnne, hemp? Do you know how much hemp you would have to grow to replace oil.
Kend ~ Hemp can be grown in any environment in all 50 states. We currently have plenty of free land and people who need work to not only provide enough natural fuel for energy, but raw materials for industry as well. We could meet our needs as a nation and export the surplus. As you can see from the link posted below, Hemp can be made into two different fuels -- biodiesel and ethanol/methanol. It is estimated by experts in the field, mentioned in the article, that such fuel would run about $.50/Gallon.
http://hempnewstv.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/hemp-ethanol-will-only-cost-50-cents-per-gallon/
Does anyone know what the energy tradeoff for solar arrays in space is for both below and above the Van Allen belt? The solar effieciency above the Van Allen belt being 15,000 times more than at the earth's surface is just so seductive.
Here is another interesting link that links to many other sources of information on Hemp. As the preface states:
The Energy Caper or Nixon In The Sky With Diamonds WebsiteQuote William Scott Morrison:Those interested in exploring the historical themes or the scientific ideas presented in this novel will find these selections a good place to start. Whether or not there was a conspiracy to criminalize the cultivation of the plant considered by America's Founding Fathers to be the nation's most valuable crop is not relevant to the future. What is indisputably true is that it has always been possible for America to farm its way to energy independence, and by growing its own fuel, to create economic prosperity, and guarantee national security.
Quote chuckle8:Does anyone know what the energy tradeoff for solar arrays in space is for both below and above the Van Allen belt? The solar effieciency above the Van Allen belt being 15,000 times more than at the earth's surface is just so seductive.
chuckle8 ~ That is really a great question! From what I gather it is about 4 times greater for SBSP (Space Based Solar Power) than that of ground panels of the same size. Here is some data I've found:
An Article by ACT (Advanced Concepts Team Website) Division of the European Space AgencyQuote Article:The power range of the concepts for SPS is from a few tens of MW to several hundred of GW. Just for comparison purposes, a modern standard nuclear power plant delivers about 1 GW and the energy need for Europe in 2020 is estimated to be about 500 GW. If we can come close to the theoretical transmission efficiencies via electromagnetic waves (50-60%) then we could continuously receive 75-100 W electricity per square meter of space PV panel in our terrestrial electrical grid, which is about three to four times the amount we could receive from the same area of terrestrial PV panel.An Article By Solar Novus Today
Quote Article:One contender is Manhattan Beach, California-based Solaren. The company‘s trump card for viability is having in hand a contract from the Pacific Gas & Electric utility to furnish, in 2016, 200 MW (megawatt), enough for a small city‘s needs, microwave beamed from geosynchronous (stationary) earth orbit (GEO) to an antenna in Fresno, California.Solaren plans a 2014 space trial to deploy a foldable, large aperture antenna to check beam quality and tracking, which depend on obtaining the correct curvature of the extensive antenna. The test will validate antenna curvature mechanics in scaling up from the smaller antennas previously used, hoping to have overcome the challenge of packaging extremely large aperture antennas for launch and deployment.
Another player is Space Energy of Schaffhausen, Switzerland. The company says it will launch a 10-kW (kilowatt) low earth orbit (LEO) demonstration satellite two years after funding. "We are expecting funding within a year, but because of contract confidentiality we are unable to give a specific date or contracting partner," Paul Catches, research, web, and documentation administrator, told Solar Novus Today.
Apparently, the key into determining the tradeoffs is what delivery method is eventually deemed to be practical. We have microwave and laser so far leading the pack; but, until they actually develop a viable orbiting platform we won't know for sure just how efficient the technology will be. However, considering the potential of unlimited 24 hour energy production, it is definitely a field worth exploring. Very promising, indeed.
http://www.esa.int/gsp/ACT/nrg/op/SPS/index.htm
http://www.solarnovus.com/space-based-solar-power-nearing-the-tipping-point_N1115.html
If fracking continues unabated around the entire globe - where will there be enough land for people to live on where there is not a poisoned water supply and the other by-products of this practice?
One comment about Thom's comments at the beginning of Tuesday's show: When he mentioned the NYT's article "blowing up Libertarian Theology, Libertarian Philosophy" - I was thrilled. He was telling it as it is - Libertarian Theology! The same kind of religious fervor as we see in Muslim countries in their dedication to their Mullahs. Tea Party crazies are good examples of that. The only trouble is - that they were born by the accident of birth - with the exception of the Cruz guy - in the US.
Thank you Marc! I had more than a hunch you'd come through with that info. You sure are good at this; better than I am!
Here in southwestern Oregon where I live, we are having our own issues with the fossil fuel industry. What follows is the letter I wrote earlier this evening, to our governor and congressmen:
Dear Governor Kitzhaber, Representatives DeFazio and Walden, Senators Merkley and Wyden,
Could you please explain why you are not objecting to the Jordan Cove & Williams' LNG export facility and pipeline projects proposed for Coos County? These people are relentless in their efforts to push LNG down our throats. I hear their come-ons and propaganda on the radio every day, and it truly is nauseating. This is a transnational corporation whose agenda is sharply at odds with the interests of this community. Yet they are on an aggressive publicity campaign, determined to convince us that they have the answers to our problems: jobs for the unemployed, a jumpstart for Coos County's economy ad nauseam; all hogwash. They keep pushing the point about jobs, yet whatever jobs there are to be gotten from this will only be temporary construction jobs with no benefits. Does this sound like a fair trade-off to you?
How will it benefit us to have to pay higher prices for natural gas? How will it benefit us to have a hazardous LNG facility at the end of an active airport runway in a hazardous tsunami zone? How is a 95+ foot clear-cut through private property and public forestland in our best interests?
With due respect I ask, how would you like your home and property threatened with "eminent domain"? Why should our neighbors be forced to slug it out with these transnational invaders, hell-bent on stealing their land?
How does it benefit this community to have the area it resides on converted to an extreme hazard zone? How will it improve our quality of life, having these huge tankers hog our waterways while the habitats of fish and marine wildlife are destroyed? Have you given any thought at all to the negative impacts this will have on tourism, fishing, farming, transportation (land, water & air travel), property values and land use, local homeowners' insurance rates and so on? Where's the public benefit in the loss of income to fishermen, ranchers and farmers?
How do Americans benefit from the poisoning of their water supplies and all the environmental damage caused by the hydraulic fracturing that extracting natural gas entails? Why is someone's for-profit enterprise more important than public health and safety? Please enlighten me.
I await your reply.
Sincerely...
(SIGH...) - Aliceinwonderland
Bobbler trees are a renewable resource just like sun and wind. You plant them and they grow.
Danne yes that may be true but the amount you need to replace oil there would be no room to plant food.
There ARE answers and alternatives to ruining Mother Earth and ourselves. No one has mentioned the high health costs of oil and gas pollution. We now know that pollution causes cancer, plus various lung diseases--asthma, which has been increasing--and other ailments. That COSTS us. Dismissing any one of the alternatives mentioned as impractical--which sounds to me like pure speculation based on ignorant assumptions--is silly. Why not hemp? Why not windmills (by the way, I do live in the Midwest. My energy company has a miniscule percentage of energy in renewable resources. Why? They aren't finding it profitable enough--they are instead patching up the old plants, including nuclear plants. What is needed is more government financial encouragement).
People are working on alternatives and we need to support all of that. It's downright silly to be so dismissive of all of these alternatives by talking about the Amish or horse-and-buggy transportation.
Think. Innovate. Support alternatives. Come into the 21st century.
But Thom, there have been spills. The on-site holding ponds that hold fracking water, until trucks can haul it away to god knows where, are very shallow, earth-banked, and lined with some kind of plastic. These holding ponds overflow when there is heavy rainfall--as we had here in the spring--and cattle have died from drinking from the streams into which this fracking fluid overflowed.
Drilling for oil and gas is like flogging a dead horse. These "resources" are limited and their extraction has been shown to be detrimental to the environment. Why not put all that effort into renewables?
The fact is, even if there are no spills or accidents, - See more at: http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2013/10/dont-frack-dc#sthash.9W4S2fY5.dpufThe fact is, even if there are no spills or accidents, - See more at: http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2013/10/dont-frack-dc#sthash.9W4S2fY5.dpuf
Quote Kend:Bobbler trees are a renewable resource just like sun and wind. You plant them and they grow.
Kend ~ FYI. The definition of a "renewable resource" is a resource that can be replaced as fast as it is consumed. Trees on average take anywhere from 40 -100 years to reach full maturity; some, more. The type of trees in our national forests that Bobbler is talking about are several centuries old. If you are suggesting using the resource of a tree over several centuries before cutting down any more, than yes, it is a renewable resource. Otherwise, you are just blowing hot air--again!
Quote Kend:Danne yes that may be true but the amount you need to replace oil there would be no room to plant food.
Kend ~ Is that such an obvious fact to you that you don't need to quote any source to support it. How very Kend, of you? Like I said, the plant grows in all 50 states in any climate. That includes Alaska. We would not need to use farm land; except, as an alternative in crop rotation. You see Hemp can also replace petroleum based fertilizers by using it in crop rotation. That means that you plant beans one season, then Hemp, tomatoes, then Hemp, beats, then Hemp. The Hemp is just to rebuild the soil. It becomes waste and is then used for very cheap industrial purposes; and, of course, fuel. The real fuel is grown in dedicated Hemp fields far away from food farms and closer to the big cities. That way regular city folk can work the jobs operating the big equipment that will be used to plow, seed, cultivate, harvest, transport, and process the Hemp plants. Remember, we just want to power our vehicles; not fill the Great Lakes. Don't worry about the food supply. Food always takes priority over energy. Water takes priority over food. Air takes priority over water. That is why we will use Hemp. To protect the air. That gives Hemp priority over everything as long as we use energy.
as opposed as I am to fracking, DC might be a good place for a wholesale fracking experiment.
at 62 I have yet to meet a con or teabagger who can grasp the destruction of their actions, until the mess is in their yard or bed or in this case, toilet
stecoop01
~ Oh, I agree my friend, that is a very tempting idea. Although we might be literally throwing the baby out with the bath water. Remember, along with the congressmen who may deserve to drink from that cup will be the likes of Alan Grayson, Bernie Sanders, Barbara Lee, and of course Thom and Louse Hartmann among many other good servants and citizens. I think these guys belong to a club that deserves clean gourmet drinking water.
Besides, allowing this drilling to happen will set a dangerous precedent for other parks, forests, and natural resources around the country. We need to wean ourselves off fossile fuels. We can't afford to let it happen.
DAnneMarc - In principle I agree, but consider this. The good people would know the water is bad and would avoid drinking/using it, whereas the bad people would drink/use it just to "prove" it's safe. I would hate to lose the National Forest, but the sacrifice might be worth it if it brings a complete stop to all fraking.
Dan -- Thanks for the research and input. I wonder how 15,000 becomes 3 to 4 times more than terrestrial. 50 to 60% would make it at least 7500 times more.
Doesn't the burning of hemp add to global "warming" and thus human extinction?
I find it fun that 3 times a week I walk on the beach of Manhattan Beach.
Alice -- Bravo! I forgot about the LNG component of the fracking. Shipping our natural resources off to other countries (China) is just another indication that we are a third would country.
Do you have any measure of any effect your letter had on anyone. It certainly seemed inspirational to me.
"Chuckle8" - Thank you for the thumbs-up! And to answer your question, yes. The person leading our battle against that fossil fuel conglomerate here is a woman named Jody McCaffree. She loved my letter; so much, in fact, that she's asked if she can use it as an example. Of course I'm honored, and told her so.
Jody is an activist of the highest order. For years, she has dedicated her life to this issue, doing the research and learning all the facts so that she can give'em hell with substance, not just hot air. I am awed by her and regard her as a role model. She has been a treasure to this community and we are so lucky to have her.
This is becoming a Third Word country, right before our eyes. What a freak show it has been. Some of us aren't going down without a fight. - Aliceinwonderland
Willful ditziness! Ever hear of renewables, Akunard? Duh-uh
You gotta at least make it sound good. If I was your supervisor for the PR firm doing bogus blog posts for the oil and gas industry I'd fire you.
... And the beat goes on! (tsk) What follows here are exerpts from our local newspaper's LNG debate. I've kept myself amused, giving these guys a run for their money! - AIW
So, the PLAN should be... NO plan?? Interesting. But, wait - doesn't the process of clearing the railroad out, cleaning up the docks, shoring up our downtown buildings require a PLAN? I'm confused. - Retread
"I'm confused", says Retread. That's the most truthful statement I've seen you make on these blogs. - AIW
Well, DH, some folks are OK with being poor. OK with being dependent upon others. OK with a sub-par standard of living. And consequently, they have a lot of time on their hands to do what they can to impose their lifestyle on others. - "Retread"
Retread- your name suits you, because your arguments are redundant, inane and short on facts. I find it more than a little ironic that you'd accuse us of "imposing our lifestyle on others" while these transnational corporate invaders are trying their utmost to impose this toxic monstrosity on us. How much is Jordon Cove paying you to spout off this nonsense? I'm beginning to have serious doubts about whether you guys even live here. - AIW
Naysayers. I'm still waiting for somebody else to come forward with BILLIONS of dollars to construct a project of this size right in our own backyard. I've been here since 1999. That line is pretty darn short. Plan B if this project fails? Just how few cops and how few potholes getting patched are you willing to put up with? This region is withering economically. And the future is not terribly bright. We NEED Jordan Cove. And we NEED the money it's going to bring with it. - DHCollins
Mr. Collins, are you a shill for Jordan Cove? You're making the same tired old arguments you submitted months ago; the same old lies I keep hearing on the radio from JC. We don't "NEED" our waterways obstructed by JC's giant size tankers; we don't "NEED" our property values reduced while our insurance rates go up; we don't "NEED" to have to pay higher prices for natural gas; we don't "NEED" a 95+ clear cut through private property and public forests; we don't "NEED" a hazardous LNG facility at the end of an active airport runway and we don't "NEED" eminent domain either! Try absorbing that through your thick skull. - Aliceinwonderland
AIW -- Keep up the good fight
Thanks, chuckle8. It's what we do! - AIW
All right Marc, I've done my civic duty! Thanks for the forest service's contact info. I'm posting my letter to them:
To whomever concerned,
I am writing to express my outrage at the prospects of fracking in the George Washington National Forest. With each passing year, more and more of our precious wild country is sacrificed at the alter of Big Money. I implore you, as guardians of this national treasure, to resist Big Oil's attempts at defiling it by upholding the ban on drilling. We are counting on you to assert the authority entrusted to you. This would have a devastating, ruinous impact on the forest's geological & biological integrity, from which it might never recover; not to mention the danger it poses to the water supply of the DC Metro area.
Please do not cave in to the demands of the fossil fuel industry. This land belongs to us all, as citizens of this country. It is a vital part of an ecosystem we, and all creatures of the earth, depend upon for survival. Over the past few decades the fossil fuel industry has gotten too big for its britches; it's time they're brought back down to size before they do more damage to this country than they already have. They've no legitimate claim to our national forests. What's more, if corporate interests trump everything else including public health and safety, we are all in serious trouble.
Sincerely...
- Aliceinwonderland
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