Sorry to talk on a different subject. I asked a question on Thom's show about an hour or something ago, on what's the difference between Medicare Advange and Medicare Suplement. And when I finished asking Thom, and he went to ask Wendell Potter, I got completely cut off and did not hear my answer. Plus every time I call back, it's "busy." No one in the chat room was paying much attention and they don't know. Anyone who was listening or who knows, could you answer me? And I'll check back later. Thanks!

Wendalore.

My family comes from what used to be a Soviet Socialist Republic. My mother and father were refugees of WW II. When we used to visit family in the U.S.S.R. my father would like to find, pull out and show us the hidden microphones in the hotel room. When we took photographs we commonly had a couple of not very well blended in guys in the background of each one, plainly the spies assigned to following us. When we went someplace - like a relatives home - without calling ahead or telling anyone we were coming we found that we were expected.

We would remark at how opposite that was to life in the United States and the West where the authorities were kept in check by democracy and such things didn't happen. How that was our freedom from Big Brother and surveillance by the authorities in contrast to the police state that was the Soviet Bloc.

When the Berlin Wall fell and the Stasi's records were opened we in the West marveled in horror at the totalitarianism.

In the United States, however, it wasn't quite as we liked to think. There were always, in the 20th century, pretexts for suspending the Constitution "just this once" or for just this one exceptional ocassion which always wound up being more the rule than the exception resulting effectively in a militaristic police state. The enemy was just so cunning and so insiduous and the threat just so terrible that we "just had to" make an exception in this case and dispense with constitutional rights of the people and the sovreignity of other nations.

Various Red Scares provided this pretext. The communists were "just so" all the above that we "just had to" do McCarthyistic purges of dissident intellectuals and more common people. We "just had to" do COINTELPRO; we "just had to" send the police and FBI to attack like thugs or arrest and imprison on bogus charges with bogus, ill gotten evidence all the labor organizers, peace activists and environmentalists. We just had to engineer a coup of a democratically elected government of Guatemala that only wanted to impliment a New Deal style democracy, or something similar in the Congo or Chile and we "just had to" invade Viet Nam. Remarkable coincidence that in each case our action prevented (with exception of Viet Nam) the self determination of these nations and continued the colonial relationship in which they were in service to us (the U.S. and Western Europe) and working as coolies to support our extravagant lifestyles. (The Soviets, of course, did something similar the only difference being that they colonized other white people as the Hungarians, the Poles, the Czechoslovakians, etc..That, of course, was just plain barbaric of them. If they had only colonized people of color like we in the U.S. and Europe we wouldn't have - couldn't have - objected.)

After the Berlin Wall fell we no longer had the pretext of Communism to violate the U.S. Constitution and the sovreignity of nations. We needed a new pretext. Thus the "War on Drugs" replaced the Cold War.. George H. W. Bush announced a "zero tolerance policy" for drugs in the U.S. and drugs were just "so terrible" that we "just had to" give the police and federal authorities power to ignore constitutional rights to catch drug dealers and give our foreign policy establishment the liscence to ignore international law. It became overly generous to provide accused traffickers a fair trial or any of the standard "rights of the accused" (whose purpose is to prevent the innocent from being wrongfully convicted and punished).

When we wanted to invade Panama - remarkably about the time the canal treaty was to expire - we couldn't say we were fighting "Communism" anymore so Panama was a "narcodictatorship". Manuel Noriega was tried in secret with "secret evidence" against him and wasn't allowed to introduce as evidence the fact that he was almost always acting on the instructions of the U.S. government.

Then came 9/11. The "War on Drugs" faded from our minds, it wasn't needed anymore.

Trust of the government is absurd. Arguing that we don't need constitutional protections if we have a "good king" is silly. Whereas, that may be somewhat true as long as the good king is king and as long as he is good, NOBODY is good ALL the time and the potential for abuse in totalitarian spying is infinitely great.

Similarly, to argue that any particular moment of crisis is a time for giving up, however temporarily, the Bill of Rights is mostly fallacious. It is precisely in those times of crisis and mass hysteria when the Constitution is needed most.

It should also be remembered that the Weimar Republic became the Third Reich through the ceding of "emergency powers" to the executive branch of the German government after the burning of the Reichstag.

Of course we can't believe the NSA. These spooks lie for a living, it's their career. They have high level meetings in sound proof conference rooms to concoct bigger, more intricate lies. The entire apparatus needs to be taken apart and scattered to the winds in the interest of national security and the general welfare of the people.

Be careful though. We're approaching the 50th anniversary of the last guy who seriously threatened the criminals in Spookville and they murdered him quickly and completely. If there's one thing they're better at than lying it's murder.

Well, you're preaching to the choir, Thom, but it's good to remember that governments lie. And good people, often for good reasons, do bad things. An informed and active citizenry is often the only thuing that stops these trends from getting completely out of hand. And in America today far too few people seem to be both informed and active. Perhaps the outrage will build, but it really hasn't yet--as you've pointed out, many folks are too busy worrying about their jobs, working too many hours, or too distracted to get involved. Or are just scared of the "homeland" (gag on that term) police. Then too as an educator I'd say the lack of understanding that many younger people have of their rights and duties as citizens is truly breathtaking. When people feel powerless, they are powerless. (Which is how many dictatorships grow and continue.)

The converse is also true, which is how many genuine revolutions start. Reich put it well in "The Greening of America" when he said that once a person woke up he or she could never turn off their mind again. Sometimes it's a big event that breaks trust--the 1905 massacre in St. Petersburg was the start of the end for the Czar. We haven't reached that point here, but who knows what "social Chernobyl" could still happen, and maybe the NSA revelations (old news to many of us) are a start.

Meanwhile there is so much to loudly ask about. The drone strikes, with their endless reports of killing enemy "operatives" is a good example. Does anyone really believe this Vietnam War type of body count anymore? (Even earlier it didn't work; in WW2 a friend kept track of US reports of what casualties we inflicted on the Wehrmacht. Apparently we wiped out the entire German army 2 1/2 times over!) The point is that we can keep bringing up these types of questions. Perhaps in time enough people will listen to force some real change. Because as the current incumbent showed, any such thing will come from the bottom up, not the top down.

Wendalore -- I have medicare Plan B (and A of course). I also have an Anthem medigap coverage My medigap plan pays the co-pay but not the medicare deductible of Plan B.

I talked to SCAN about their plan, a medicare advantage plan. My main problem with their plan is that I did not get to see my doctors that I have had for years. With medicare and medigap I do get to see my doctors.

You can't stop an autocracy from exercising a power one obtained. The only solution is to shut off the autocratic people, whoever they might be.

Quote bobcox:You can't stop an autocracy from exercising a power one obtained. The only solution is to shut off the autocratic people, whoever they might be.

bobcox ~ Very sage advice indeed. Perhaps we have centralized too much power under the Executive Branch of the Government. As the assassination of JFK showed, when too much power is in that hands of one man and that one man tries to make massive positive changes for the multitude, then he poses too much of a threat to the ruling powers and has to be eliminated. If that one man serves the interest of the ruling powers, then he becomes too much of a threat to the the multitude, and has to be eliminated. Perhaps the final solution might be to eliminate the Executive Branch all together as we know it. After all, when it was created originally our Republic was much smaller and afforded the President much less power than he wields today.

What I might suggest is to replace the Executive office with an Executive Council. The Council would have thirteen members, twelve general members and one Council Chairperson elected from the main thirteen districts across the country. (The thirteen districts don't exist yet. We will have to create them.) The Council Chairperson rotates amongst the the thirteen every twelve weeks. The Council will hold all the powers and responsibilities of the current Executive Branch. Each Council member will have their own team of advisers or Kitchen Cabinet if you will. Each member will have one vote on each law or action placed before them. A majority of seven votes is a passing vote or a veto. Each member is elected by a majority of their own districts they represent. As such each member has to answer to a different constituency of the country. No one member is entrusted with all the Executive Powers. They share them equally. All members are limited to a term of 3 years, with only a one time reelection possible.

That might help to shut off the autocratic people regardless of who they might be. It would be far more difficult to control a council of thirteen then it is to control one man. (By the way, if you are wondering, the council of thirteen is not my original idea. I borrowed it from the New Testament. It seemed to work well for Christianity. It might work equally as well for Democracy.)

Right on, sister! "Alphabet soup groups"... fuck'em all. Some of us won't be scared or complacent, no matter what they do! And you're right about Glenn Greenwald; now, there's a real journalist for ya. I salute each and every kindred spirit out there... - AIW

Great posts! You guys are on a roll with this topic. The little fascists can chain our bodies but not our spirits. - AIW

DAnneMarc -- You really need to read Thom's book "Ultimate Sacrifice", I didn't, but you should. I think Thom says something like JFK used the mafia to assist in the "Bay of Pigs". This led to the mafia eliminating JFK. That book is like 850 pgs.

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