Harry Reid goes nuclear!

Yesterday, majority rule finally returned to the U.S. Senate. After five years of Republican obstruction, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid invoked the so-called “nuclear option,” with 52 Democrats voting to reform the filibuster. Since President Obama took office, Republicans have used the filibuster more than any other time in our history. And, they have held up more than 1,000 executive nominees to courts and federal agencies.

Back in July, Senator Reid tried to make a deal with Republicans to avert the nuclear option. Reid vowed to leave existing rules in place if Republicans agreed to allow a vote on some of President Obama's nominees. But, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell refused to hold up his end of that bargain, and blocking three presidential appointments to the all-important D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. Finally, enough was enough for Harry Reid and the Democrats, and they voted to change the filibuster rules.

For five years, Republicans have used the filibuster to block the President's choices for important agencies like the EPA, the DC Circuit Court, the National Labor Relations Board, and even the Department of Defense. They have used the procedural maneuver as a weapon, to prevent these agencies from functioning, or to hold on to Republican control of high-profile courts. The level of obstruction was unprecedented, and the nuclear option was far over-due.

Comments

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 10 weeks ago
#1

Guess what, my friends... This morning I got another message from my "friend" Senator Moron, whining about the "nuclear option":

Today, Harry Reid and Senate Democrats triggered the nuclear option. This means that centuries of Senate tradition has been overturned; the filibuster has been eliminated in the confirmation process. So much for Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. Our democracy was earned with the sacrifices of too many to name, shaped by centuries of fighting for a republic that follows the voice of the people. Today, Harry Reid casually cast that aside to get his way. After today’s disgraceful power play, Senate Democrats are going to pack Obama’s liberal judges on the federal courts. We need to stop them. We must throw these hacks out of office. And, we need your help today to get it done. We must win this fight in 2014, for the sake of our children and grandchildren. Whatever it takes. Regards, Senator Jerry Moran, NRSC Chairman

My reply: Ha-HAH! It's about time you guys EARN your pay and benefits and SOCIALIZED healthcare! And you can just kiss my ass. - Aliceinwonderland

ckrob's picture
ckrob 9 years 10 weeks ago
#2

How about a brief email to Reid expressing support for his action? Reinforcement gets more of the behavior reinforced. I do dislike getting on their list, however. (Small inconvenience?)

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 10 weeks ago
#3

Aliceinwonderland ~ You sure get a lot of weird email. From the 'good' Senator from Dorothy-and-Toto-ville no less. It is very noble and brave of you to welcome all that Reich Wing propaganda for the cause. On the behalf of us all--who don't quite have the stomach for it--let me extend our gratitude to you for "jumping on the BS grenade" like that to--so to speak--save us all, and then kindly and calmly sharing the benefits of those close encounters of the aggravating kind. Quite heroic of you my dear. I thank you; and, my blood pressure thanks you. With that, I must say that you echo my sentiments exactly to the auspicious and oh so pretentious Senator Moron. My his cup of regrets generously overflow into a deluge of the rising tides of righteousness. I hope he knows how to swim.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 10 weeks ago
#4
Quote ckrob:How about a brief email to Reid expressing support for his action? Reinforcement gets more of the behavior reinforced. I do dislike getting on their list, however. (Small inconvenience?)

ckrob ~ I think that is an excellent suggestion. Thanks for mentioning it. Consider it done.

By the way, here is the link:

http://www.reid.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 10 weeks ago
#5

What scares me is that so many people are dumb enough to believe such a collection of egregious lies - like he apparently expects you to.

tim-mccoy's picture
tim-mccoy 9 years 10 weeks ago
#6

I think it is important for the President and the Senate to allow the GOP to self-destruct. This is a well-timed move which for most us impatient ones - does not go far enough. But cooler heads prevail. Foolishly - Republicans (Grassley) have already said that when they get the Senate back - there will be majority rule (by them). As soon as there is a vacancy on the SC - we will revisit this.

trueamericavet's picture
trueamericavet 9 years 10 weeks ago
#7

Wow what a great Email Good job!

BlackKnight's picture
BlackKnight 9 years 10 weeks ago
#8

I have signed 2 of those complimentary letter to Senator Reid. Good idea.

About a week ago - however - he called the former lieutenant governor here in Montana - who is running for the US Senate seat being vacated by Sen Baucus - and asked him to step aside in favor of the present lieutenant governor who is running for that position as well. I wrote Sen Reid that in 2006 we had a primary race between 2 good candidates - and Jon Tester won that race and beat Conrad Burns in the general election. I told Sen Reid to stop meddling in Montana politics and deal with the Republicans who have abused the filibuster over 400 times since he was the leader of the Democrats in the Senate.

Doubt that this pushed him to action - but something must have.

BlackKnight's picture
BlackKnight 9 years 10 weeks ago
#9

You hit the nail on the head tim-mccoy. The GOP will govern with majority rule - if - not when - they get the Senate back.

To think that all of that great legislation passed by Nancy Pelosi while Speaker of the House up to the Senate only to have the GOP grinder pulverize it. We could have a 16 or 17 Trillion economy plus full employment by now and laughing histerically at the silly Europeans who are dabbling with austerity!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 10 weeks ago
#10

As I've reflected in my previous comments, I am glad the Dems finally grew a pair. But don't you wonder why it took so long? Don't you wonder why this has all happened just before the 2014 elections...and just before the TPP... and just two years short of Obama's final exit?

Some Dem voters are quite aware of how the two party system is a rigged game...ie: that the Dems are part of the ruse...right along with the Republicans...of pretending that we have Democracy. Those few, once Dem, voters realize that both parties are owned by the ruling elite and that they are playing Good Cop..Bad Cop...stringing us all along so that we are all going to be so very afraid of the opposite party getting elected that we will not hesitate to vote for "the least evil" one. We are being played for fools and cowards, perhaps?

So, won't it appear even more a desperate situation, with the new nuclear option, that we keep Repubs out so that we will once again let ourselves be herded down the cattle chute in voting for the least evil candidates...the ones who we all believe just grew a pair...but who are only playing the illusive game on the behalf of those who are really in power? We certainly don't want the Republicans to have the same Nuclear option if they ever get into power. So, I'm afraid that, once again, I believe that they may manage to cow us into being so very afraid that we will all continue to vote Democrat....the ruling elite's plan B...instead of taking a chance on third party candidates.

How many people are so gullible that they believe that if the Democrats had the overwhelming majority that they would actually represent those who voted for them? So far, the Dems haven't done a very good job. They use the excuse that the bad old Repubs are the reason. But I'd venture to say that this is all a ruse. The Dems won't change anything that will side with the people vs the ruling elite.

Are we all being played here...once again?

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 10 weeks ago
#11

Marc, you are too funny. Brilliant post. - AIW

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 10 weeks ago
#12

PD, I salute you. Much as I enjoyed my little gloating fix, I too wasn't born yesterday. And I too am bloody tired of these stuffed shirts playing chess with our lives.

If I ever vote again for a Democrat to be president, it'll be Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders; someone of that calibre. Otherwise, it's third party for me! - Alice I.W.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 10 weeks ago
#13

How about those Obama promises that we will be out of Afghanistan by 2014...and now...it's 2024...ten more years? Hasn't that war criminal Obama done enough damage in killing innocent civilians with his drone program? And how about those promises that we will shut down US torture camps in Gitmo? Let's face it...Obama is not representing the vast majority of those who voted for him...he is representing those despicable blood money war mongers.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 10 weeks ago
#14

Aliceinwonderland: I totally agree! I'm really, really hoping Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders runs...I would gamble on either one...for sure..even if they run as Democrats. I know Bernie is not a Democrat but an Independent. It sure would be nice to shake up the system with someone other than a Republican or Democrat for a change.

DanH44 9 years 10 weeks ago
#15

Done! Thanks for the link.

As for getting on their mailing list, that's why god made email "rules", aka filters.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 10 weeks ago
#16

I went to see the new movie The Hunger Games-Catching Fire today. I had to give up on the earliest 10:00am showing because the lines of school children were way too long. Is school out? Maybe they are just playing hooky or maybe it was a field trip? Anyway, it is just so suggestive of what our country is becoming...and I am looking forward to the next, perhaps 3rd part, where District 13 nukes Panem to hell... just where it belongs. I don't know if this is the actual scenario...just guessing. ;-}

dixiec's picture
dixiec 9 years 10 weeks ago
#17

Now that Harry Reid has used the Nuclear Option, the oposition party is up in arms. OK Reid, the only thing to do is capitulate and undo what has just been done. I expect that will take some time, almost until the next elected Republican Senate majority takes office. The Republicans of course will vote as a block to support that action based on their current stance. And they well never use that option themselves, they know it is wrong. Right?

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 10 weeks ago
#18

Oops! I should've known better. I'm fully aware of Bernie Sanders' party affiliation; Independent, not Democrat. But no matter. Personally, I don't give a flip whether a candidate is Democrat, Independent, Justice Party, Green Party... I want substance! I want a leader willing to fight for us, to push back against the oligarchs. I don't expect miracles; I know full well what we're up against; but I need to see solid evidence of that person's willingness to call out these toadies. I'm done compromising on candidates like Clinton and Obama!

While Obama ran for his first term as our president, there were three red flags that caught my attention. Early in his campaign I stumbled across an article in the Unitarian Universalist magazine in which his plans to escalate our military presence in Afghanistan was mentioned. That was Red Flag #1. Red Flag #2: learning of his endorsement of nuclear power, hardly the wave of the future.

Red Flag #3 emerged in that year's Voter Self-Defense pamphlet, put out by a non-profit organization called Project Vote Smart, an organization I've mentioned before. Anyway this group does extensive research, digging up voting records of all members of the Senate & House, on every issue imaginable. They also rate each senator for (if I remember correctly) "political courage" or something like that. It's about all senators answering "yes" or "no" to the simple question of whether they are willing to be politically transparent. To pass this courage test, a senator would have to answer "yes". And Obama, then still a senator, answered "no". Big red flag!

I pick up on these things, often without even trying, just by stumbling across information here and there. Anytime I see warning signs like this in the future, so help me, I'm sticking to my guns. No more compromises! Because look what we've got: a corporatist war-mongering bipartisan hypocrite! Barak the Betrayer, as Loren Bliss has succintly characterized him. And I'm done with that. Finished. No more fear votes for me! (Hear that, Nachos?) - Aliceinwonderland

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 10 weeks ago
#19

Palin my granddaughter is in grade two and she is in class 205 days a year. that leaves a lot of days off to go to the movies.

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 10 weeks ago
#20

I don't know Knight Canada's austerity program worked great our economy is doing better than any of the G20 countries. I think you might have just ended up with 16 or 17 trillion more debt.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 10 weeks ago
#21

Kend: Wow! I just looked it up and found that the average school year in the US is only 180 days...could that be true? Only half a year? It's been a long time since I was in grade/high school but it seemed to me that we only got about 2 or 3 months off for summer vacation. Of course summer vacation is long over with and wouldn't account for the numbers of mostly teen kids I saw at 10:00am on a Friday. Although it is not an official US holiday...perhaps they took the day off for JFK 50 year assassination commemoration. The theaters were certainly expecting huge crowds as they had the show playing in many different theater rooms...one starting every half hour or so.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 10 weeks ago
#22

Aliceinwonderland: I certainly concur....no more fear votes...no matter how hard they try to scare us into voting for the least evil party. Actions speak louder than campaign lies. Think of it this way...the Dem party is used by the ruling elite to keep people hopeful for change...this keeps them mollified over and over again.. to be continuously disillusioned yet not brave enough to actually do something that will make a difference. They will continually resort to emailing, writing, petitioning, or calling their congress people which just doesn't work. They will continue to go to the ballot box and vote for the liars who will end up selling them out to the ruling elite. Constantly repeating obviously ineffective actions will keep us all imprisoned in the corrupt two party scam.

So, just this morning I read that they are going to fine anyone $5000 who instigates a demonstration against fracking. Oh well, I guess safe drinking water will become a thing of the past but at least we will be able to heat our homes with the flammable gasses from our drinking water. ;-\

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 10 weeks ago
#23

Palin at $75,000 / year at a 8 hour day thats over $52/hr plus benifits. At $50,000 it is still $35.00 not bad since they get all that time off.

with that said i couldn't do it. You all seen me spell. Maybe my teachers where paid too much look how many of you call me stupid. I passed everything though. i guess thats why there is so much home schooling and private schools now.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 10 weeks ago
#24

I believe that the Republicans are not all that upset over the nuclear option. They would just love to have that themselves when or if they take power again. Obama has only 2 more years and the Repubs would just love to have the nuclear option if they ever get back in.

Since both parties are competitive and want to be in charge...the real problem is that the ruling elite owns both parties and plays them both in the way that benefits the ruling elite.

When it appears that the masses are becoming too uppity and on the verge of rebellion...then they play their Democrat savior cards. The Democrats say all kinds of warm and fuzzy things but in the end they don't follow through using some excuse like the Republicans blocked them.

The Republicans play the blame game all the time as well, of course, and they are equally deceptive and, because their ruling elite backers own the major news media, they easily dupe-the-stoops with sleight-of-hand, ridiculous, divide-and-conquer disinformation.

I suspect that if the Republicans take power again that they will so tick off the people that they will go way beyond mere letter writing, or emails, or phone calls. And maybe that's what we need...a swift kick-in-the-pants realization that the only way things will change is for a rebellion against a crooked system....break up the crooked two party system...shake them up...or it will be massive mayhem in our streets.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 10 weeks ago
#25

Kend: Well, I certainly don't think you are stupid because you misspell words. We all misspell words..or, at least, many of us do. Even Einstein couldn't spell very well...he was, in fact, dyslexic. In fact, I misspelled "misspell" many times before I got it right. All it takes is a little more effort to get it right. I assume that you are typing in the same kind of Comment box that we are. And every time a spelling error is made (it could even just be a matter of not capitalizing the first letter)...the word is underlined with a wavy red line which indicates that the word is misspelled... or not capitalized. All you have to do is try typing that word into Google search and it usually gives you the correct spelling. I do it all the time. It also helps to learn how to spell correctly.

But then, there are other gotchas where the word may not be misspelled except that it is the wrong form of the word...example: (there, their, they're) (here, hear). Again, we all do it...some more so than others. English is so cruel! But then try Arabic! One of my greatest peeves is finding grammatical errors in a book I have just paid good money for. Some of these books...especially technical books like programming books...are so full of errors...it really just ticks me off. The publishers should be ashamed of themselves for not proof reading and editing them before publishing. Sure, they have web sites that publish erratas but that sucks!

Of course, it seems, in other forums especially...like in the more abbreviated social media like Facebook and Twitter it is often socially acceptable, or popular, to misspell and use a plethora of chat acronyms or text abbreviations. But then, the dumb old football jock is also often more socially acceptable than the computer nerd. So, really, it's all a matter of differing opinions.

http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com/2012/01/24/15-famous-thinkers-who-co...

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 10 weeks ago
#26

Palindromedary says "Just this morning I read that they are going to fine anyone $5000 who instigates a demonstration against fracking..." ohmygod this is terrorism! And who are "they"; local governments, the feds, the fracking companies -- who? This is getting mighty crazy. Not only are these people poisoning us and destroying our environment; they're threatening us with financial ruin if we attempt to stop them. This is freaking me out. - AIW

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 10 weeks ago
#27
Quote Palindromedary:Kend: Wow! I just looked it up and found that the average school year in the US is only 180 days...could that be true? Only half a year?

Palidromedary ~ I've done a lot of work in the various major school districts here in the Bay Area. (If you think the Bay Area can afford the best education system in the country you might be right; however, the reality is the exact opposite.) I don't know how many trips that I've made to various schools that were closed. It seems they make up excuses for holidays now. I don't know how many times I had to ask around as to why the school was closed and no one knew.

Apart from that, you might be interested to know that these schools today don't use textbooks. All lessons are photocopied; and, THE TEACHERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING THE PAPER FOR THE COPIER AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE. I kid you not. You heard that right. It's nothing short of a disgrace. It is a sad, sad state of affairs; and, I feel very sorry for those poor kids today.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 10 weeks ago
#28
Quote Aliceinwonderland: PD, I salute you. Much as I enjoyed my little gloating fix, I too wasn't born yesterday. And I too am bloody tired of these stuffed shirts playing chess with our lives.

Aliceinwonderland ~ I too have the same reservations Palindromedary mentioned. I mentioned some time ago that you could bet that if the Prez is bending over backwards to appease all these Reich wing policies in a feighted Kabuki Theater then it would be highly likely that they would overturn the tools that made such obstructions possible just prior to the next election so that when the bad cops win it there will be little to stop them from implementing their full fascist agenda. Then all the Dems will have to do it helplessly throw their hands in the air and say, "Oh well, what can we do?" I hope we are all wrong. Let's see how much the Dems exploit this new tool at their disposals before the next election. If they do nothing or next to nothing in the meantime, we were spot on.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 10 weeks ago
#29
Quote Aliceinwonderland:Palindromedary says "Just this morning I read that they are going to fine anyone $5000 who instigates a demonstration against fracking..." ohmygod this is terrorism! And who are "they"; local governments, the feds, the fracking companies -- who? This is getting mighty crazy. Not only are these people poisoning us and destroying our environment; they're threatening us with financial ruin if we attempt to stop them. This is freaking me out. - AIW

Palindromedary ~ I must concur with Aliceinwonderland. Who is they? Please post that link so we can see what you are talking about.

As if it wasn't enough that Corporations had the rights of people and money--or bribery--was free speech, now it appears that people no longer have the rights of people and ONLY money is "free" speech. Now you can only speak if you can afford to? I want my Constitution back!

However, on the bright side folks, this is obviously the last resort of desperate people. All these people involved are criminals and we should call them such. This blatantly illegal disregard for the Constitution will not last long in the light of day.

Quite frankly, I'm getting sick and tired of Thom, Berney and others coddling these criminals by saying that because recent law has made this unconstitutional practices "legal" that it is legal. When the Constitution clearly states that "Congress shall make NO LAW..." that makes the law illegal, and the people who voted for it CRIMINALS. End of story. There is no middle ground and please don't insult my intelligence.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 10 weeks ago
#30

Marc, I don't know what you've been eating - or smoking - but your posts of late kick ass. I really appreciate that final paragraph of your last post, refuting any notion or claim that unconstitutional laws are a manifestation of legitimate authority. Since they are not, they should be responded to accordingly. - AIW

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 10 weeks ago
#31

I tried to look for that story Palindromedary mentioned in post #23 unsuccessfully so far. What I found instead, however, was very interesting. This site was written by lawyers with legal advice about protesting in Washington DC. I thought that might be some good information to share on this blog.

http://www.portaec.net/library/action/exercising_your_rights.html

The article not only states all legal penalties for various forms of civil disobedience but some of the hidden ones protesters should avoid. For instance, kidnapping. If you seal exits to buildings or inadvertently prevent people from moving around you might find yourself charged with kidnapping. That carries a life sentence. So if you plan on protesting in DC--and we should all plan on doing so once in our lifetime--please read this article carefully. After all, what life is complete without participating in at least one shake down of DC.

In this case an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure. No one should ever be punished or persecuted for exercising their Constitutional rights and standing up for what they believe in. These are the best members of our population and they should never be treated like the worst members of our population. That is a national disgrace.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 10 weeks ago
#32
Quote Aliceinwonderland:Marc, I don't know what you've been eating - or smoking - but your posts of late kick ass.

Aliceinwonderland ~ You're going to make me blush. Thank you. Actually I'm not doing anything unusual. Just exercising my Constitutional right to think. (At least, I hope that is still legal.) Nevertheless, thanks for that vote of confidence.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 10 weeks ago
#33

OK, got it!

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/11/21/2977441/house-bills-drilling-fracking/

This bill was passed by the "Animal" House of Representatives. Here is the gist of the bill and why we don't have to worry about it seeing the light of day:

Think Progress article:

House Passes Bills To Fine Drilling Protesters, Squelch Federal Oversight Of Fracking

Quote Emily Atkins:The House of Representatives on Wednesday passed two bills that would, among other things, impose a $5,000 filing fee on any individual that wanted to file an official protest of a drilling project, and take authority away from the federal government to regulate hydraulic fracturing in states that already have their own fracking rules.

The bills — H.R. 2728 and H.R. 1965 — have little to no chance of passing the Senate, and President Obama has already pledged to veto the bills if they come to his desk.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 10 weeks ago
#34

DAnneMarc-Aliceinwonderland: I read that piece about a $5000 fine of fracking protest instigators on the bottom of the screen while watching Russia Today this morning.

But here are a couple of references to this: http://www.commondreams.org/further/2013/11/20-0

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/11/18/2962431/house-vote-protestin...

So, it might all be a matter of how it is worded...when does a fee really amount to a fine. A fee is before the fact and a fine is after the fact. It's just big money bulldozing the little guy.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 10 weeks ago
#35

DAnneMarc: Wow! You beat me to it!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 10 weeks ago
#36

DAnneMarc: Thanks for that link in #32. Wow! One almost needs to be a lawyer to safely protest. At least these things should make people aware of the traps they can fall in to. Thanks!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 10 weeks ago
#37

Palindromedary ~ You are more than welcome. Thank you for bringing up the issues in the first place. This just goes to show that the House of Representatives has been co-opted by a large group that is clearly not qualified to represent anyone. I certainly hope and pray that this nation has the good sense to vote these ignoramuses out of office at the earliest convenience.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 10 weeks ago
#38

Aliceinwonderland ~ By the way Alice, if you are interested, you can put your quotes in the same little blue balloons that I and Palindromedary use by going all the way down on the thread--near the bottom. Look for the link at the bottom that says, "More information about formatting options." It shows how to configure quotes like we do. It really is quite easy and you will probably enjoy it immensely. DAM

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 10 weeks ago
#39

DAnne I felt very sorry for poor kids always that's why I worked as had as I could so my kids and grand kids are not poor. all you have to do is watch the Maury show to see what is wrong with America. Schools suck today because of the parents. If our childs school needed more money we raised it. Now schools seem to be for baby sitting. The other problem is there is lots of money in most school boards. Public schools spend more per student then private schools. My neighbour is a teacher and she told me only 55% of school board employees are in the classroom where in private schools it's over 80%.

It is sad that the US government always seem to have money for bank bail outs, failing solar panel companies, disaster relief for other countries etc but children are not getting proper health care and education in your own country.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 9 years 10 weeks ago
#40

Kend says "It is sad that the U.S. government always seems to have money for bank bailouts, failing solar panel companies [?!], disaster relief for other countries etc but children are not getting proper health care and education in your own country." Just one thing you've left out: the military industrial complex, which sucks up more $$$ than the above list all lumped together. I found this omission, uh, intriguing. Now tell me Einstein, how much has our government squandered on unnecessary pork barrel gravy like foreign disaster relief and (gasp!) failing solar panel companies? Are you serious?! - AIW

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 10 weeks ago
#41

Sorry Alice you are correct my point would have taken better if I just said military spending. My point with solar panel companies is you may as well burn the money then try and compete with the Chinese. they take our research and build it cheaper. So every penny spend is a waste. I can't believe our countries allow it. just so you know it is over two hundred solar companies have failed in the US since 2008.

Foreign relief isn't unnecessary I just think we have to take care of your own first Or should we be working towards world single payer health care.

Einsten. I think the theory of relativity is they shouldn't stay more then two days.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 10 weeks ago
#42

Needless to say, Kend, we've learned around here not to trust your interpretation of facts or events or accept it at face value.

So, sure, Kend, sure.

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 10 weeks ago
#43

What did I say that isn't true Mark. please educate me. I will be the first one to admit when I am wrong.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 10 weeks ago
#44

You know, Kend, what someone like you, of course, can't get is that the different issues, i.e., education, healthcare, housing, labor, racism, etc., are only artificially separated and are, in reality, all one issue. I.e., education is a healthcare issue, a housing issue, a labor issue, a race relations issue and a political economic or class politics issue.

If mom and dad don't have a decent job then there's problems and insecurities in the home and kids can't think about school like they should. If healthcare is needed and absent kids can't think about school. If decent housing is unaffordable, if mom and dad can't get a decent job because of racial discrimination or have the cyclical legacy where generations were deprived of education and decent employment so now someone can't get a decent job because they don't have decent education; or if the poor just don't have the clout to fight city hall to get the education, jobs, housing, healthcare necessary then poor kids aren't going to get education they need.

It's easier just to blame the victim and say, "They're no good so what do you want us to do about it?"

The poor work hard, Kend, they deserve to be compensated. There should be no such thing as the "working poor". Anybody who works full time should be able to get decent housing, healthcare and education for themselves and their children and EVERYBODY deserves a job.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 9 years 10 weeks ago
#45

What've you ever said that isn't true? There are so many volumes that can be composed solely of that. It would be so much easier to list all the things you've ever said that have any truth.

Specifically, in this case, your claim that austerity has done Canada and its economy SO much good. And even if you return with a lot of "facts" to support your claim they will be worthless because of your reputation.

I'm afraid you've destroyed your credibility in this forum, Kend. You couldn't have done a better job of it if you were trying to. All the transparent, willful bullshitting that you often didn't bother to even make sound good.

Forget it, Kend. You're just making useless noise. There's no reason anybody on this site should pay the slightest attention to you.

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 10 weeks ago
#46

Mark I think we both want the same thing. Of course I want everyone to have a good job, great education and health care. How we get there is where we are different. I think you think the answer is wealth distribution and I think we should do it by limiting government and creating a business atmosphere that everyone wants to invest in so more people can create wealth.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 10 weeks ago
#47

And let's not forget about the corporate welfare queens! They suck up more money off the taxpayer than most social programs. And they are the ones that are sending our jobs overseas..getting huge tax breaks...and hording their loot in offshore accounts. And, at the top of the list of the parasites are the military-industrial/spy/Gestapo-pig complex and oil companies.

When schools have to use Xeroxed copies of text books instead of the real thing...that is just a real shame. Using computers for that purpose might help if those computers aren't stolen right out of school storage...as has recently happened. Or, was it really merely a case of some outsider breaking in and stealing them...or was it an inside job?

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 9 years 10 weeks ago
#48

Kend: The wealth is being distributed alright...right into the pockets of the select few who were either fortunate enough to get all the breaks or who were ruthless and conniving enough to trick people out of their money. Not everyone can be as lucky or crooked as those few at the top who managed to "make it".

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 9 years 10 weeks ago
#49
Quote Palindromedary:When schools have to use Xeroxed copies of text books instead of the real thing...that is just a real shame.

Palindromedary ~ I feel the same way. You won't hear the kids complain about it either... Less homework. Kids don't like to learn. It goes against their very being. It's like punishment. So money gets skimmed off the top, our future gets robbed right in front of us, and the biggest victims remain silent because they think they are making out like bandits. A very sad story. The educators have quite a reputation too. After all if you don't compensate well enough, what you end up with is what you end up with. You get what you pay for.

Speaking about getting what you pay for, our friend Kend seems to think that investment in solar panels is a waste of money. I fail to see the logic in that statement. Even if you can't compete with manufacturers in China you can still make better quality products that still have a market domestically because they have to be installed, maintained and repaired over here. They can't do that from China you know.

From my perspective any money spent on solar energy is money well spent. Solar panels last a long time. The energy they generate is 100% renewable. There are no waste products. It doesn't affect the environment. Over time, the money saved using solar energy pays for the equipment many, many times over. If you really want to talk about "burning" money lets talk about the petroleum industry. Here you have the production of dangerous liquid fuels that cost--and therefore burn--money with every use. The truly sad fact of the matter is that by using fossil fuel you have to include in the cost the "actual" cost of using the fuel. First you have the sales price. Money instantly and literally up in smoke. Then you have the cost of the consequences, climate change, natural disasters, and preventable health problems. If you were to average in all the unnecessary cancers, health care costs, wages lost, and cleaning and rebuilding costs from super natural disasters then you can really talk about a technology that "burns money." Not only once, but twice. You can actually say that fossil fuels continue to burn money even decades after they have been used. The same is not true of solar energy. And that doesn't even mentions the cost of government subsidies to the petroleum industry. After all, Kend, government subsidies to the solar power industry are the only thing you are talking about. That is money well spent; and, my only regret is that we are not spending enough. The return on that investment is instantaneous and continues to build over time. That's the kind of investment I consider to be wise.

Kend's picture
Kend 9 years 10 weeks ago
#50

Palin I agree corporate welfare has to stop. Remember I am for limited government. What is the government doing in any business. Solar panels or oil.

Yes I agree we can make better products but Americans don't by them.

Are you saying that you have to be lucky or crooked to become wealthy? some are just hard working driven people

DAnne if you believe in solar you should invest in it. But I don't so why should I pay for it with my tax dollars. Seriously it hasn't helped at all. Hundreds of billions and CO2 levels are going up in the US. I just think the money would be better spent on children's health care.

Thom's Blog Is On the Move

Hello All

Thom's blog in this space and moving to a new home.

Please follow us across to hartmannreport.com - this will be the only place going forward to read Thom's blog posts and articles.

From Screwed:
"If we are going to live in a Democracy, we need to have a healthy middle class. Thom Hartmann shows us how the ‘cons’ have wronged this country, and tells us what needs to be done to reclaim what it is to be American."
Eric Utne, Founder, Utne magazine
From The Thom Hartmann Reader:
"In an age rife with media-inspired confusion and political cowardice, we yearn for a decent, caring, deeply human soul whose grasp of the problems confronting us provides a light by which we can make our way through the quagmire of lies, distortions, pandering, and hollow self-puffery that strips the American Dream of its promise. How lucky we are, then, to have access to the wit, wisdom, and willingness of Thom Hartmann, who shares with us here that very light, grown out of his own life experience."
Mike Farrell, actor, political activist, and author of Just Call Me Mike and Of Mule and Man
From Unequal Protection, 2nd Edition:
"Beneath the success and rise of American enterprise is an untold history that is antithetical to every value Americans hold dear. This is a seminal work, a godsend really, a clear message to every citizen about the need to reform our country, laws, and companies."
Paul Hawken, coauthor of Natural Capitalism and author of The Ecology of Commerce