This is un-American.

Starting today, 47 million hungry Americans will see cuts to their SNAP benefits. Five billion dollars is being slashed from the program, leaving the poor to survive on even less. Families who are already struggling to make ends meet will see their food stamp benefits drop by an average of $36 dollars per household. That may not sound like a lot, but it's a huge difference to a family trying to feed themselves on an average of $278 dollars a month.

According to the Congressional Budget Office, 87 percent of SNAP recipients live in households with children, seniors, and people with disabilities. And, at least 900,000 veterans relied on food stamps as of 2011. These people are not takers like many Republicans claim, these are our children, our parents, our neighbors in need, and those who devoted their lives to protecting this country. Many of them even work hard at regular jobs, but they just can't survive on the slave labor wages that are paid by so many corporations.

Senate Democrats managed to fend off more extreme food stamp cuts proposed by House Republicans, but $5 billion dollars is still too much to take away from needy families who can't afford to eat. In the history of our nation, we have come together after tragedies. We have stood up for those who can speak for themselves. And, we have decided that people don't go hungry in the streets in the richest nation on Earth. It is simply un-American to break those promises now, and our lawmakers must know that we wont stand for it.


Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 10 years 38 weeks ago

It's not only un-American; it's downright uncivilized. How ironic that the richest country on earth can also be Third World - for over 90% of us, that is. But hey, when you have a culture that nurtures psychopathy, and your country is run by a bunch of psychopaths, that's what you get: "I've got mine and screw you". So what will happen next November when the midterm elections come due? Will more people have connected the dots by then? Will we manage to kick these self-serving scumbags out of Congress and take our country back? Yeah, I know; with "Citizens United" the system is rigged against us... Still, I think much of the voting public remains locked in a "sheeple" mind set. So how hungry and destitute must "We The People" get before we've really had enough of predatory malignant capitalism? It remains to be seen. Frankly, comrades, I don't expect this scenario will be lightening up anytime soon. We've been too complacent and too lazy for way too long. The damage is done. And that's my gloomy forecast, for what it's worth... (SIGH) - Aliceinwonderland

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 38 weeks ago
Quote Thom Hartmann:Five billion dollars is being slashed from the program, leaving the poor to survive on even less. Families who are already struggling to make ends meet will see their food stamp benefits drop by an average of $36 dollars per household. That may not sound like a lot, but it's a huge difference to a family trying to feed themselves on an average of $278 dollars a month.

It is quite amazing that the very imbeciles that wrote this Sequester abomination are people who routinely will dine at one meal in excess of $278.00 at the tax payer's expense. Oh, excuse me, that should be $242.00. My goodness! We have taken the tip away. These inhuman monsters should be ashamed of themselves. I hope they choke on their Caviar.

ckrob's picture
ckrob 10 years 38 weeks ago

Sorry about Higgins. Bless you all.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 38 weeks ago

Aliceinwonderland ~ I did some research on Gun laws you might be interested in. As it turns out California already has the most restrictive gun purchase legislation in the county. Someone I know recently told me he went through it and tells me that not only is registration and licensing required; but, you have to take and pass a written gun proficiency test, pass an extensive background check, and go through a 15 day waiting period.

I did some further research and according to these statistics on Wikipedia California has the most restrictive gun laws in the United States scoring 80 out of 100 on the Brady Campaign Score for gun laws. (100 being the most restrictive score.) Despite that effort California leads the nation in gun related murders per year at 1,257; followed not so closely by Texas at 805. Texas has a very poor gun restriction laws scoring at 6 out of 100 on the Brady Campaign Score for gun laws. California with a higher population than Texas at 37,253,956 and Texas at 25,145,561 and comes in with a lower gun ownership at 21.6% of the population. Texas gun ownership is at 35.9%. All other factors considered there is little difference in the number of deaths that occur from gun violence due to gun laws. Gun deaths per 100,000 people in Texas is 3.2 and in California is 3.4. Total murders by any cause per 100,000 people in Texas 5.0 and in California is 4.9. Not much difference at all considering that a higher percentage of people in Texas own guns with hardly any restrictive gun laws. The bottom line is that the gun death rate is higher in California despite the radical difference in gun laws.

Of course, that makes little sense. I'm sure that there must be more factors involved in these deaths then these simple statistics suggest. However, it does suggest that restrictive gun legislation does little to prevent gun violence. You would think that our leaders in Washington would be well aware of these facts.

In the big picture gun restriction laws has little to do with gun homicide rates when looking at other states. For instance, Illinois has a gun death rate of .8 and a Brady score of 2, North Carlina .6 with a score of 4, Vermont .3 with a score of 6, and Hawaii .5 with a score of 50.

Nevertheless, having learned that stricter gun legislation is in effect in my State somehow gives me a sense of relief. I agree that other states should at least adopt the reasonable policies already in effect here in California. If for no other reason, because it is the responsible thing to do. It sure can't do any harm as long as we limit those policies to reasonable restrictions. Perhaps the best way to do that is to let the states develop the law, like they did here in California. That would keep the Fed out of the loop. That would satisfy my apprehensions.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 38 weeks ago
Quote ckrob:Sorry about Higgins. Bless you all.

Thom and Louise ~ I too am so sorry for your loss. Those little creatures play such an important role in our families. Nevertheless, we are blessed to have the time together with them that we have. They will always live on in our hearts.

I have found that the departure of our special little furry friends usually open the door for new relationships. Hopefully soon that special spot in your hearts will be filled by a new little family member. But, take your time looking for one. Fate will inevitably present you with the right opportunity.

There is nothing like playing with a young kitten. I'm sure you will spoil him rotten. How I envy that lucky feline.

BlackKnight's picture
BlackKnight 10 years 38 weeks ago

Sorry to hear about Higgins' passing. These guys add so much joy and fun into our lives. Our 2 kitties are very much part of our family. We elected not to take an out of state trip a week ago because we weren't sure that they would be safe from predatory dogs while we were gone.

About the SNAP program: The GOP has said that there is corruption or people taking advantage of that system. If they really think that that is the case - why don't they propose some legislation to regulate it better? They really should not be able to have it both ways! I said the same thing to our US Representative. He probably did not even read my comments.

This is totally disgusting. We have billions in armaments and we are not willing to feed all of our people. Maybe is all of the politicians had to live for a month on anallocation of SNAP funds - that might change their tune. IMO this is a huge embarrassment to this country.

Thanks, Thom.

Kend's picture
Kend 10 years 38 weeks ago

America has 47 million people on food stamps. Holy crap. That is 15 million more that the population of Canada. No wonder you are going in debt 2.75 billion a day. Thats well over 10% of your popualtion wow. It seems that with may people on food stamps that your government isn't focusing 100% of its time and energy on jobs, shouldn't it.

Cgmunchkin's picture
Cgmunchkin 10 years 38 weeks ago

I coordinate a food pantry and county wide mobile pantries. We have already seen an increase in the number of families needing help because of the sequester and the government shut down. Now this is going to add more to an already stressed system.

trueamericavet's picture
trueamericavet 10 years 38 weeks ago

The problem is that Duff keeps saying that is what everybody thinks why is that?

trueamericavet's picture
trueamericavet 10 years 38 weeks ago

May I say thank you for your work we volunteer as often as we can. I know it all we can do in this time. Once more thank you.

George Reiter's picture
George Reiter 10 years 38 weeks ago

This act of cutting the SNAP benefits by the Republicans is absolutely cruel.

Today’s Republicans fall, basically, into 3 categories: the Rich, the Cruel, and the Ignorant. And, these categories are not mutually exclusive.

If you need further elucidation of the Republcan agenda, then you fall into the last category. Sorry...

SHFabian's picture
SHFabian 10 years 38 weeks ago

Consider America's response when Bill Clinton wiped out basic poverty relief, and began dismantling Social Security, starting with disabled workers. You didn't notice? Right. Since then, liberal media (with rare exception -- and I have tremendous respect for those exeptions!) has waved the Middle Class Only banner. Since Clinton, the overall life expectancy of America's poor has already fallen by 5-6 years. That might not sound like much, but on a population-wide scale, this would normally be regarded as a humanitarian crisis.

SHFabian's picture
SHFabian 10 years 38 weeks ago

Yes, but since Clinton, Democrats have helped the Republicans completely wipe out what is left of any safety net.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 10 years 38 weeks ago

Kend, are you kidding? For your information, the Food Stamp program extracts ten cents per day out of an annual $50,000 income. That is less than one twentieth (or less than 5%) the amount extracted for war! I get so sick of you conservatives blaming poor people for the goddam deficit. You never bitch about the cost of weapons that kill and mutilate people, but heaven forbid if our resources are allocated to food, health care and education for those of average means (or less)! You guys are full of crap. - Aliceinwonderland

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 38 weeks ago
Quote Kend:America has 47 million people on food stamps. Holy crap. That is 15 million more that the population of Canada. No wonder you are going in debt 2.75 billion a day. Thats well over 10% of your popualtion wow. It seems that with may people on food stamps that your government isn't focusing 100% of its time and energy on jobs, shouldn't it.

Kend ~ Yes, that is what they should be doing, isn't it. The only reason we have 10% of the population on food stamps is due to our insane trade policies. Maybe instead of whining about the consequences of free trade the Government should be whining about the free trade policies. But, no, it isn't, is it? In fact, neither party has anything to say about the real cause of this mess; and, neither party wants to do what is needed to fix it. Instead, they want the poor and needy to bare the burden. Bull $h*t!! The Government caused this crisis and now they should be made to pay the consequences. It is reprehensible that anyone would not be outraged at cuts in the meager sustenance provided to these needy family's that are suffering as a direct result of public policy. Until the trade debacle is corrected, it is the Federal Government's responsibility to feed these victims. Anything less is deliberate genocide.

Since multinational corporations are primarily responsible for this trade fiasco, they should be the main target of the Government's efforts to raise the revenue to pay for these programs. Let they who profited pay the price for the poverty they created.

Willie W's picture
Willie W 10 years 38 weeks ago

As long as there is something left to take, they will find a way to take it. All under the guise of conservatism. They are nasty self centered people with power. God help us.

johnrquinn's picture
johnrquinn 10 years 38 weeks ago

One word, reprehensible...

N Z Sarah's picture
N Z Sarah 10 years 38 weeks ago

Will this cost more than it saves? Stressed and desperate people are forced to commit crimes, hungry people will have poor nutrition, many more people will be jailed. That costs more money . As many jails are privately owned there will be a masive increase in proffits for those companies.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 38 weeks ago
Quote N Z Sarah:Will this cost more than it saves?

N Z Sarah ~ Of course it will. It already has by far. For a few measly corporate profits this country has been plunged further into debt, and countless millions of lives have been shattered. What does it matter if the corporate bandits further plunge the nation into debt? It's not their money. Besides the more our society is destabilized the easier it will be for them to get away with murder. This is the price we pay for allowing our leaders to deregulate and privatize the nation. Reagan Republicans and Free Trade Democrats have destroyed our nation. Neither party wants to take responsibility for the mess they both created and both have thrown We the People under the bus of corporate greed.

historywriter's picture
historywriter 10 years 38 weeks ago

For those of you bemoaning the cost of food stamps and support, last week, Associated Press reported that Congress has authorized almost half-a-Billion dollars over two years to build Abrams tanks for the Army. But the Army has said it currently doesn’t need any tanks, and the money would be better used elsewhere. They are immediately going into storage. Food stamps keep people alive, and healthier, so they can work and take care of their families--and it puts money into the economy.

Kend's picture
Kend 10 years 38 weeks ago

Sorry Alice, I know it's not that much money, what I am thinking about is the 47 million who could be paying taxes and supporting the system. 5 years ago when Obama was elected iall the talk was jobs, jobs, jobs. What happened. The best cure for poverty is a job.

Kend's picture
Kend 10 years 38 weeks ago

DAnne, then change those policies. Again five years later and there is no hope and no change when it comes to jobs. There is only so much money. I have asked here over and over what has Obama done to create jobs, nothing.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 10 years 38 weeks ago

Kend, I'm sure you are a very nice, personable guy. But what I find so annoying about you is your apparent inability, or unwillingness, to absorb the information that I, DAnneMarc, Mark Saulys and various other bloggers have been trying to get through to you. Because if it did, you wouldn't be posting the kind of clueless crap this latest message of yours exemplifies. It really is annoying. - Aliceinwonderland

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 38 weeks ago

Quote Kend:DAnne, then change those policies. Again five years later and there is no hope and no change when it comes to jobs. There is only so much money. I have asked here over and over what has Obama done to create jobs, nothing.

Kend ~ The people on food stamps mostly either can't work or work such low paying jobs that they can't afford a roof and food. So many "living wage" jobs flew out of the country with Free Trade that only poverty wage jobs are left; and, people are working them. However, they don't pay enough to live. It is the reverse Robin Hood effect where multinational industries are the recipients of the booty collected by the Federal Government.

For your benefit, here are some of the facts concerning Food Stamps and the situation here in the United States as published by the Federal Government itself. Please feel free to use the link and educate yourself.

Quote United States Department of Agriculture USDA Website:Most SNAP benefits are going to people who could be working.

This is FICTION.

Most SNAP recipients were children or elderly. Nearly half (48 percent) were children and another 8 percent were age 60 or older. Working-age women represented 28 percent of the caseload, while working-age men represented 16 percent.

People on SNAP benefits are not employed.
This is FICTION.

Many SNAP recipients are currently employed but they still need some assistance so that they can put nutritious food on the table for their families. More than 29 percent of SNAP households had earnings in 2009, and 40 percent of all SNAP participants lived in a household with earnings. For these households, earnings were the primary source of income.

The majority of SNAP households do not receive cash welfare benefits.
This is FACT.

Less than 10 percent of all SNAP households received Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) benefits and another 5 percent received State General Assistance (GA) benefits. About 24 percent of SNAP households received Supplemental Security Income (SSI) benefits and over 22 percent received Social Security.

You are very right. Obama has done nothing to change our trade policies. In fact, he might be acting--even as we speak--to make the situation much worse with TPP legislation. There is not much that can be done about that. The problem started with a Democrat and is being prolonged with a Democrat. Yet, between Clinton and Obama we had 8 solid years of Republican leadership that also did nothing to solve the problem. In fact, the Republicans provided tax incentives to encourage even more businesses to leave the country. With both political parties determined to sabotage the countries economy, how would you suggest we "change those policies?"

Now I know you think we can just snap our fingers and fix the situation. Either you are very terribly misinformed or you are being a smart a$$. In either case rest assured that We the People are aware of the problem and are desperately doing everything we can to fix it--and that ain't enough. With both of our political parties as corrupt as they are fixing this situation is no easy trick. Till the wheels in that process start to move pardon us for demanding that our fellow citizens receive the aid that we would like to receive if we were in their shoes. It's called "The Golden Rule". It was a teaching by someone by the name of Jesus Christ. You should get to know him. He had a lot of good ideas.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 10 years 38 weeks ago

Right on, Marc! I wish I had your patience as well as your research skills. Unfortunately I don't.

Were it not for certain unearned advantages keeping my husband and myself afloat, we could easily be on food stamps and/or depending on local pantries. Our actual earnings are barely covering utilities, gas and food right now as I complete my training in a new occupation, and gear up for starting a business.

I don't know how anyone on minimum wage can afford a healthful diet. I have to pay $2.50 a pound just for fuckin' broccoli! It costs us roughly $300 a month to eat, and that's just for two people. How does anyone paid seven or eight bucks an hour manage to keep food on the table without some kind of assistance?! And like Marc explains so well, we've got toxic trade policies to thank for so much of that.

Kend, please pull your head out of your ass. The real Welfare Queens are the Kochs, the Waltons (Walmart heirs), and Rush "Limpballs" (as Thom calls him); not to mention trust fund babies, CEOs, celebrity pundits and most congressmen and women... basically all members of the Billionaire & "Lucky Sperm" Club, living off the sweat of the "masses". And oh by the way, Thom (the illustrious historian) has enlightened me to the fact that Ayn Rand was herself dependant on Social Security & Medicare in old age! This is the Goddess of Crony Capitalism, whose philosophy the Kochs and their ilk use to justify their parasitic, thieving ways. Just another one of those inconvenient little facts no one else in the media likes talking about. Tsk, tsk. - Aliceinwonderland

Kend's picture
Kend 10 years 38 weeks ago

DAnne. Over 20 million children on food stamps. Wow that is scary. Those poor kids. I had my three grandchildren over last night well mom and dad went for diner and a movie. I can't help thinking how lucky they are compared to those 20 million kids on food stamps.

You are so right about politcations. Did you know Nancy Pelosi, working for the government all her life is worth 35 million dollars. Where is the media on things like that. How did see make it?

It can't be done over night. But it can be done. We are lucky in Canada our government put forward the "Canadian Action Plan" back about 5 years ago which gives us incentives to spend money, for example I used two of them. I re sided and insulted my house, I received $3,500 tax break and my business hired a new apprentice which we received a tax break for. Both I would have waited until the economy picked up but went ahead with it now because of the breaks. There is hundreds of others for huge corporations to individual people. Your government choose a different route. They gave grants to select companies that most of which went under. That wouldn't be where Pelosi made it would it.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 38 weeks ago
Quote Kend:Your government choose a different route. They gave grants to select companies that most of which went under. That wouldn't be where Pelosi made it would it.

Kend ~ It wouldn't surprise me. Pelosi and Feinstein are both out as far as I am concerned. Boxer and Lee are going to stay right where they are. I wrote them all concerning the TPP. Their responses to that dictate my response to them. I recommend everyone treat their congressmen accordingly. Write them a letter denouncing the TPP. If they get a letter back that agrees, vote them back into office. If they get a condescending rambling of tripe, vote them out. It is that simple. My simple strategy for solving this awful major economic problem.

Not that they actually write back. I'm not that naive. However, they will have someone respond--usually with some generic response to a general question. It is enough, however, to determine exactly the way they stand on the issue. You can tell by the way it is worded exactly where their priorities are. Later, you can tell by their actions exactly where their loyalties lay.

You are very fortunate in Canada. Your small population is your advantage. Our relatively small populations in our cities, and states also make for very equitable politics. Less people and less money are a better recipe for good government. It is on the Federal level that corruption is so very rampant. Too much money floats through the corridors of the Federal Government. Too many hands are in the pie. Money and power corrupt even the best of us. This is the true task at hand. We have to remove the money element from our elections or our real problems will never be healed.

The truth of the matter is that if we can't push and pass comprehensive Campaign Finance Reform we are all doomed. So is the Federal Government. If they continue down the current path--blinded by greed and avarice--they will turn our nation into an economy that cannot be sustained--much the way Russia did to it's nation around the turn of the last century just before the Russian Revolution. Russian leaders were just too removed and out-of-touch with the working class to govern effectively. Of course, our situation has quite a ways to go before it matches the problems of Russia. However, we are well on the way. We are living at a most interesting time. It is a time when Democracy is being tested and will either be vindicated or defeated permanently.

Thank you for being so concerned.

Kend's picture
Kend 10 years 38 weeks ago

DAnne that is why I have said over and over to have a health care system run by the Fed is insane. Even though we have only 33 million people our health care is run province (state) by province. We have a national health act the is the guide line for all provinces to follow but is is just the basic care. Each area has different needs. ie New York and Montana. What this also creates is a comparison as to what is working and what is not. Canada has been decentralizing as we have found doing anything at a national level ineffceint and the US is centralizing everything.

I have theory, want do you think. States like New York and California are in big trouble. They have given such generous state health care benifits over the years and are way under funded to keep them up. Not to mention the massive state debt they have built up. They desperatly need to go to a national single payer system to get those liabilities off the books. If not the whole socialism system collapses. I can't think of any other reason why the Fed would get involved in such a massive mess.

Interesting that in 1812 if Canada had not won the war against the US I would be an American. History is awsome. Canada defeating the powerful United States. Today only in hockey,.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 10 years 38 weeks ago

I hate saying this my friends, but I really believe that until or unless we get more in lockstep in certain ways, we're never gonna fix or solve diddily squat. We'll never be effective players in this deadly game of class warfare politics until we pick an issue, unite around it, set aside our differences and give it everything we've got. And if it were up to me, folks, that one issue to start with would be campaign finance reform, which means overturning "Citizens United". Because without publicly funded elections, we're flatout screwed. I've heard it said numerous times: attempting to turn liberals & progressives into a more united force is like trying to herd cats. Can't argue with that! But hey, look what we're up against. Long as corporations control everything our lives literally depend on, people will die. Because without campaign finance reform, corporations own our government. Everything we literally depend upon to function and live becomes ransom. So now we've got fascism. Long as we have that, nothing is going to change. The situation will continue to worsten as more people are impoverished, and poverty kills. So what are we going to do about it? We have to do something, because their policies are literally killing us. People are dying, right here in America- from hunger and disease, from poor nutrition, toxic drugs, pollution, unsafe work environments, denial of healthcare and mental health services... How many more people have to succumb to this before we've finally had enough, and are ready to get ourselves friggin' organized? I kid you not my friends, without campaign finance reform the situation will only get worse. Without campaign finance reform we're doomed. All of us: men, women, white, nonwhite, gay, straight, the poor, even the not-so-poor... doomed. - Aliceinwonderland

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 10 years 38 weeks ago

You're right Kend, we should be more like Canada. Canada's welfare benefits are even more generous than ours. You are of the European style welfare statism which is much more vigorous and robust than ours and is tinged with willfull socialism making Canada more a welfare state and more a workers' state than the U.S..

One of the great sense makings in Canada's system is its definition of poverty. In the U.S. the policy makers subscribe to a definition of poverty as "absolute poverty". That is, poverty is defined in terms that would be poverty anywhere in any period of history and purely in a very limited application - and thus, limited understanding - of the term. In the U.S. you are poor if your income makes you unable to procure basic necessities. You are not poor until you can't afford toothpaste.

In Europe poverty is defined as "relative poverty", i.e., you are poor if you are "relatively" poor, poor in relation to others in society. That is a very useful definition because people who are relatively poor - or, poor for their society but not as absolutely poor as the starving in Botswana - experience "social exclusion". They are not able to fully participate in society and - I would emphatically add - they are isolated, marginalized and unjustly denied the power to meaningfully participate in the decision making of society resulting in a less demnocratic, more oligarchic situation (I am a firm believer that socialism is an essential componant of any genuine democracy). Thus the "theatre allowance" to Germany's unemployed, and so forth.

Food stamps are about 2% of the U.S. budget. They and other welfare programs are an effecting of justice not an injudiciously wasteful charity. They are a just compensation for the undercompensation of American workers. Most welfare recipients are, in fact employed or children of employed people and a just compensation for business cycles that cause periods of widesprerad unemployment.

In this way - as an astute fellow poster on this site noted - they are a subsidy to unscrupulous business enabling undercompensation (e.g., Walmart in California giving seminars to its employees on how to get on food stamps) and business always hired PR campaigns and political campaigns against welfare because welfare benefits compete with wages and pressure them to pay a living wage.

If you want to reduce the debt cut the militeary budget. Stop the hither unfunded wars (Afghanistan) stop the wasteful spending on a military larger than all others combined whose opnly purpose is to enrich Pentegon cronies.

Sorry about the long windedness but you know how it is. Once you start you can't stop.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 10 years 38 weeks ago

Kend, there is much hope for jobs. Jobs continue to be created if at a slow but steady pace.

You're being disingenuous again. Obama has tried hard to create jobs. The stimulus package was a jobs and infrastructure program and many Republican governors tried to suffocate it refusing the funding. Also, the Jobs Bill that was an infrastructure bill that would have done much to get the economy started IF the Republicans in the House hadn't refused to consider it. Obama even tried to break it up into its componant parts and get each one passed individually but they wouldn't even think about it. With 500 filibusters (when the usual is less than 5) in the Senate and similar obstructionism by the House majority (if they're the majority why didn't they create the jobs) - even to the extent of shutting down the government - the Republicans have to accept much - if not most - of the responsibility for slow job growth and the state of the economy after six years of that shit..

Nobody hires anyone because of a tax break in an economy like this (or what we had until recently) unless the tax break is gonna pay that hirees ENTIRE salary AND the payroll taxes AND a profit to make even the paperwork worthwhile. You wouldn't get any infrastructure repairs or improvements out of such a straight up subsidy or welfare payment to business. If there's no demand or possibility of profitting from it NOONE will hire ANYBODY.

Any economist will tell you that in a time of recession government SHOULD run a deficit and not worry about it but invest in the economy because in times of neglible demand ONLY government will. The only scientific support the Repulicans have is a SINGLE study that was touted and hyped way beyond what it deserved because Repubs found it politically useful and which completely flew in the face of conventional scientific wisdom and didn't stand up at all under peer review. When other economists looked closely at it it just didn't add up and was clearly made up in very large part.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 10 years 38 weeks ago

Much more crowded countries than even the United States have exemplary national health care systems so you can quit that trick too Kend.

And correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the War of 1812 an attack upon us by the Brittish, whose colony Canada still was, in attempt to regain control of the United States? I n that sense who won and who lost?

Kend's picture
Kend 10 years 38 weeks ago

No Mark I never said the US should be more like Canada I was just pointing out the direction they are going. I will point out the mistake you are making about Canada. Welfare is looked after province by province just like our health care. Some are more liberal then others. It has to be that way as you know Canada is a very large country with a lot of very remote communities So you need a lot more money to live in those areas. $8 for a litre of milk.

Please note that we can afford to be more generous with our social programs as we have ten times the resources then you do with a ten of your population. We have over one third of the worlds fresh water, the second largest oil reserve in world. gas, copper, steel, coal, diamonds, well actually we have everything so so can pull it off.

We are also taxed a lot more on our personal taxes.

I do have to admit it is nice to get tuned in by you guys once and a while as I live in Alberta where the economy seems to do well all the time . It is good for me to know things are not as good in other places to keep me grounded. I have to admit though when I read that 47 million people in the US are on food stamps it scared the hell out of me. that is very scary. I sincerely didn't know it was that bad.

I have always said I agree you spend way too much on your military in my option. I guess we do agree on something once and a while.

Cwall's picture
Cwall 10 years 38 weeks ago

I couldn't agree more with Aliceinwonderland. This country has been ripped apart and I suspect by design of the "Divide and Conquer" concept of 1% thinkers. While everyone is up in arms over this, that, and the other... pointing fault fingers, and admittedly it's hard not to because we all have our opinions and beliefs. But in doing so, things are happening, that is not readily disclosed and in many cases only after the fact, when it's too late.

Americans regardless of political, or religious affiliations, gender, age,and income (levels that aren't millionaires or billionaires) need to come back to basics on what unites us all and we can ALL agree on.

None of us are happy with our government officials and even less their methods regardless of who, what, where.

We have all lost respect for the men/women who hold those governing seats to a point of distrust that is self evident in the final results of what they do, do.

Given their power to rule over the people of this country in a fashion of childish public rants, loose loop-hole blocking measuresand tactics, finger pointing, and refusal to work with one another. We can all agree no employer in this country or any other would tolerate retaining such a dysfunctional employee. If we were employers ourselves, would we hire this team for our business? Well technically we do employ them because we are the reason they are where they are. "I voted for the other guy" doesn't get you off the hook ether because what they say and what they do doesn't appear to have anything to do with each other anymore... once they get into office, the office agendas seem to take on another life of it's own.

And finally, we can all agree...We share the same sense of feeling that the fate of the common man today, the plight of our children and those who come after, the land we live and depend on stands in dire jeopardy times. The energy force that sorrounds us in present time, is not eminating a postive force but a sense that more and more is being taken away and only the super rich and aristrocrats have rights as ours grows weaker every day.

Where once we all had differences of opinion and we always will... but what's absent today that wasn't before....Was we also had possabilities/aspirations and a means to move toward them. We had hope and dreams that weren't unrealistic or unatainable. Today, what we all sense and what succesfully divides us is the sense we're all sitting on the Titanic and the only hope available is to survive by whatever means.

Agreeing we all have a sense of these things and our differences are not as much what seperates us as our fear and anger as to what's to come. We should feel compassion for one another because we're not the problem. Our Government and it's handling and mishandling, misappropriating and ties are the problem. The money is there to accomplish all these things that can make it a healthier more prosperous America but not enough to fill the fat pockets of the 1% nor the war mongers that profit from it.

And Campaign finance reform is logically #1. Followed by a united front to demand a change in our trade agreements and removing tax breaks from the wealthiest. If people are back working, and EVERYONE is paying their fair share of taxes ...there won't be any need for "entitlements" to be an issue of discussion to address.

When it comes to our own people. the government was formed to protect those in this country and see to it's welfare. That is it's first obligation to which our leaders I think we're united in agreement...Get a Fail.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 10 years 38 weeks ago

The beat goes on! And on! And on! What follows is more bullshit crap from Jordan Cove's shills, on that blog page our local newspaper "The World"displays online. Includes my rebuttals:

The project includes a power plant that will generate 420 MW, with the capability to support economic development in Coos Bay. Will lead to a redevelopment and modernization of the Port of Coos Bay’s facilities, helping it attract importers and exporters of other goods. 146 direct jobs, 54 indirect jobs paid by Jordan Cove (Sheriff’s deputies, firefighters, tugboat crews and emergency planners), 404 other indirect jobs and 182 induced jobs for a total of over 750 total family-wage jobs. - DannyGS

LIES, LIES, LIES! Don't fall for it, folks. - AIW

Tourism, tourism.... Why is it everyone who opposes LNG states it will hurt tourism? What tourism?? We are not a vacation hot spot and we will never be one. Our community was originally build around industry not tourism. When industry was ran out of the area this community died. There is no work or future here for our youth so they all grow up to be useless dope smoking, alcoholic, tweekers on welfare and that is all due to the "we are a resort town" mentality. WE NEED JOBS, WE NEED LNG!!!! - "TrappedInATownFullOfIdiots"

Dear "Trapped", how about untrapping yourself with a one-way ticket to Bora Bora? - AIW

Oh and I just love how all these people who know nothing about the natural gas industry are all over night experts because they got learned by someone, who got learned by someone, who likes to tell people that LNG is the Devil because LNG doesn't help them make money because they invested in a golf course and their abuse of tax payer money lead to the eye sour that we call our new airport... Anyone feeling like having italian food? We need industry to save our community, not tourists. - "TrappedInATownFullOfIdiots"

And I just love how you shills who care nothing about this community keep telling us the same lies as part of this aggressive public relations crusade, one that hides behind false pretense and is as manipulative as it is misleading. You guys are just trying to placate us so we don't put up resistance and get in your way. You're determined to ram this thing through. If this project proceeds, we'll not be getting tax $ from Jordan Cove; they are poised for a tax break of three years, minimum. Once tax revenue from Jordan Cove is actually forthcoming, it all goes to the port; NOT schools, NOT roads or law enforcement. You guys are full of baloney. - AIW

"TrappedInATownFullOfIdiots" is himself an idiot. Would you call that last post of his "compelling"? He's such an idiot, he doesn't know basic punctuation or even how to spell "sore" as in "eye sore". But seriously, what he and his tribe are determined to ram down our throats goes well beyond an eye sore. - Aliceinwonderland

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 38 weeks ago

Aliceinwonderland ~ Funny story! Sounds like "TrappedInATownFullOfIdiots" is actually "TrappedInAHouseFullOfMirrors." Poor guy. Everywhere he turns there is some idiot staring back at him. He probably doesn't have any windows either. Probably why he is such an expert in natural gas--it isn't just baloney that he is full of.

By the way, thanks for the support on Campaign Finance Reform. It seems like a lot of us already are on that boat. Lets keep that ship a' floating.

Kend ~ It looks like we finally agree about something--Single-Payer Health care for all. Thanks for thinking the problem through. I agree, that is going to have to be the final answer. Thanks for the input.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 10 years 38 weeks ago

"Funny", unless you happen to be living in the viscinityt of such a threat. Then it isn't so funny. And to be perfectly frank, this terrifies me. - AIW

Flopot's picture
Flopot 10 years 38 weeks ago

Here's the bigger picture regarding the US Default kabuki theatre (just part of the usual neoliberal ploys to give state wealth to big business and finance at the expense of the people):

There is zero difference between the majority of Democrats and Republicans. There are or were a few good people from both parties but they're a dying breed -- Dennis Kucinich screwed by his own party :(

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 38 weeks ago

Aliceinwonderland ~ Sorry for taking your problem lightly. Personally, I'm terrified from the effects that billions of tonnes of radioactive water dumped off the coast of Japan every day is going to have on the entire west coast of America; and, eventually the entire world. Already I have given up any dreams of ever retiring in Hawaii. My favorite seafood treats are no more than a sweet memory. Forgive me if I look at the LNG like "spitting in the ocean." I have to remind myself that smaller scale problems are still quite serious. The last thing we need to do is to become discouraged with our struggle against the beast of industrialization.

I suppose if I were in your shoes--and for all practical purposes I am--the first thing I would try is to circulate a petition to ban LNG development in the local paper; or, gather signatures by sending reps to all your local markets. At least, that it what we are doing here to prevent fracking in the SF Bay Area. You could also try an online petition and advertise about it on billboards around the area. Take out an add in the local newspaper or newsletter. Put the petition on your own blog with a simple to remember URL. Announce it at community or city hall meetings so you can meet and join forces with other like-minded citizens. All things considered, you are still doing much more than most by simply making your opinion heard with your blog posts. Keep up the good work and kudos. If we can do it here you should be able to do it there. The best of luck!

The SF Bay Area is no stranger to industrial pollution. However, until now, other than a dirty feeling I've never before been afraid to stick my foot in the water. Alameda beach used to be one of my favorite hangouts when I was a kid. My father and I used to catch our own bait in the low tide flats along the marina in Berkeley and then fish with it at the pier the following day at high tide. The water always had a nasty, oily smell. We were afraid to eat the fish because they were all discolored with industrial pollution. We weren't afraid to touch them though; or, to touch the water. That's a modern fear. Oh, how the world has changed for the worst in such a short period of time thanks to greed and shortsightedness. One interesting note: Regardless of your success with an anti-LNG petition, we may all find ourselves being forced to move to Oklahoma in the not too distant future. If we are lucky, that is. Let us pray I am wrong.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 38 weeks ago

Just a reminder for all you JFK conspiracy fans...yet another docudrama about the assassination of JFK will premier tonight on REELZ (299 on Dish). I don't know much about this except for the little I have read. Something like the Australian police investigator turned author after investigating for 4 years and after getting hold of all the released Warren Commission evidence that was supposed to be locked up for 75 years believes that there was a conspiracy...that Oswald did do the first shot and may have missed...and then another shot came from a secret service agent from one of the tailing cars. It went off accidentally? Hitting the President? I don't know if this is what the movie is trying to say but it sounds hokey as hell. Maybe that's what it is meant to do...

Anyway, I'll be watching to see what the movie is really about. It comes on tonight, Sunday Nov 3, at 7:00PM PST.

Kend's picture
Kend 10 years 38 weeks ago

Ok Mark you are correct. , yes Canada was a British colony at that time we became indepented in 1867. but the French where there as well and Canada was just starting to find its identity. The French , independents and Indians that joined the British to fight for Canada's independence from the US. Although America was at war with the British it still wanted to take upper and lower Canada as it was even then loaded with trade items. America did attack the Canada's and was defeated mostly by terrible errors by the US military. Canada's army was out manned 3 to 1 but still won. I had relatives in Canada at that time as I am a fifith generation born Canadian. Very rare here At my age. How different America would be if they didn't drop the ball back then. Eh

Kend's picture
Kend 10 years 38 weeks ago

DAnne, I believe in single payer for basic health but there has to be a mix of private and public. Canada is the only country in the world that has only public And it isn't working very well. I should say since a supreme court decession in the 1990's we do have private clinics for non life threatening surgeries like knees and shoulders. As we have waiting lists for up to a year for those in some parts of Canada.

I think what Americans are missing with ACA is although everyone is covered I am very confident your level of care will drop. It has everywhere else in the world.

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 38 weeks ago

Palindromedary ~ Thanks for the heads up on that JFK docudrama. I don't have the dish and will be busy at that time tonight anyway. I look forward to hearing what you think about it. From the description it sounds exceedingly hokey as hell, indeed. Another attempt at fooling the public into the idea that the fatal shot came from behind. Really? If that is the main plot you are probably right that it is more CIA sponsored disinformation than anything else. COINTELPRO and our tax dollars at work. But then, who knows. We must keep an open mind at all times. One will have to check it out before officially making that claim. I'll be sure to check back here when I get home tonight to see what you thought. Thanks again!

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 10 years 38 weeks ago
Quote Kend:DAnne, I believe in single payer for basic health but there has to be a mix of private and public. Canada is the only country in the world that has only public And it isn't working very well. I should say since a supreme court decession in the 1990's we do have private clinics for non life threatening surgeries like knees and shoulders. As we have waiting lists for up to a year for those in some parts of Canada.

I think what Americans are missing with ACA is although everyone is covered I am very confident your level of care will drop. It has everywhere else in the world.

Kend ~ I fail to see what you mean by "level of care will drop." The way I see it, any care is a far higher level of care than no care. Unless, of course, you mean for the fortunate people who already are blessed with care? If that is the case, shame on you.

You don't have to worry about private insurance. There will always be a fair market for them to exist--just like they exist in Mexico and many other countries--in check. They can compete with private clinics and hospitals who also exist in Mexico as well. Prices at those institutions are affordable. Imagine that! The only thing that will be lacking is the monopoly over all health care private insurance used to enjoy in this country; and, the lack of competition that enables them to charge anything they want for coverage. The situation overall will dramatically improve for everyone. I have no doubt we will ever question that.

We can all thank the private insurance industry for one thing--the existence of Medicare. If it wasn't for the obtuse and shortsighted greed of the unchecked insurance industry there never would have been the profit hungry desire to boot all the most costly customers off the insurance claim payrolls. Thanks to the insurance industries blind greed and shortsightedness we already have in place a functional and proven single-payer health care system in this country; that, when push comes to shove will easily take over for the ACA. Thank you, health insurance industry. The only thing you've ever done right. The party's over.

Kend's picture
Kend 10 years 38 weeks ago

DAnne, Americans apparently didn't care about the less fortunate prior to ACA. So you are going to add millions of people that could not afford insurance, or that had pre existing conditions and could not be insured to the system. Your president said your cost will not go up. So if the cost doesn't go up care level will go down. What am I missing?

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 10 years 38 weeks ago

That's right Kend. The United States took half of Mexico - which was also sparsely populated and still relatively is in many parts - in 1846. We were manifesting our destiny.

This is why many Mexicans feel entitled to come to live in places like California which some of them call "occupied Mexico".

I often wish you Canadians had at some point over run and conquered us and civilized our savage asses.

Kend's picture
Kend 10 years 38 weeks ago

Mark we did, we pushed the American army back to fort Detroit. But gave it up and came home. They where pretty smart in those days.

Funny those Mexicans who lost that land to the US where the Spanish who took the land from the original Mexicans. War is hell.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 10 years 38 weeks ago

I think this may be another example of your illogic, Kend. Usually you're feigning stupidity, this time I think it might be the drinks you had last night hanging over. It does not necessarily follow at all that level of care has to go down if cost doesn't go up. The cost of health care in the U.S., hitherto, has been largely administrative. ACA mandates that 80% of the money insurance companies take in go to actual care provision and not to the administering of insurance or the CEO's salary like it did before. Even better would be excluding private insurance all together and giving it all to the government. That would bring the administrative cost to 3% and 97% would go to care.

I don't accept that the level of care would go down. I hear very different reports from other Canadians about their healthcare system and I lived in West Germany and heard no complaints about their system, however, I hear very MANY complaints about our healthcare system from visitors from Canada, Germany and elsewhere.

Our level of care is good only for the rich. It's often already pretty dismal for everyone else.

Kend's picture
Kend 10 years 38 weeks ago

Mark I guess time will tell. You are right I should not pre judge. As far a Canada goes every province delivers health care at a different level. Some better then others.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 10 years 38 weeks ago

"War is hell!" Kend declares. Yeah and theft is theft. In this case, land theft. Isn't "colonialism" the polite way of saying it? - Alice I.W.

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