I think a good answer to this problem is capping the salaries of CEO's. Let's face it, $20M/year is a preposterous salary for anyone. That comes out to a little over $9K/hr. What could anyone possibly do to justify being paid $9k/hr? Crap gold? To justify $20M/year that sure is a load of crap!

Quote Kend:Sorry but I hear Thom say "corperate welfare" alot, as a Canadian I am not sure what he means. What kind of handouts are corperations getting. Does he mean tax breaks?

Kend ~ No, he isn't just talking about tax breaks and loopholes. "Corporate welfare" also refers to subsidies. You see Kend, English in this country can be very misleading. When the government hands out money for no reason to poor people it is called welfare and "entitlements". When it does the same thing for rich corporations it is called "subsidies" and "loopholes", and "tax breaks." That is why Thom, and others, refer to these "subsidies" as "corporate welfare" because they are simply trying to tell it like it really is.

Here are two articles that will help to familiarize yourself with the concept of corporate "subsidies"/"welfare".

http://thefederalist.com/2013/09/30/calculating-the-real-cost-of-corporate-welfare/

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate-welfare-tax-breaks-subsidies/

It is estimated that while medical services and food stamps are being cut from people living below the poverty line the government anually hands out over $154 Billion in "corporate welfare." As the article cited above in The Federalist states:

Quote The Federalist:If you add these altogether, you see that federal, state and local governments force American families to give, on average, $2436 per year to companies that certainly don’t need the handouts (or shouldn’t be in business if they do). That $2436 could go a long, long way for most families, whether it was spent on food and clothing, vacation, a college fund, or whatever mom, dad and the kids most need. Indeed, considering that the average American family spends around $6500 per year on food, eliminating these corporate subsidies and returning the savings to taxpayers could pay for about 4.5 months-worth of groceries.

Reclaim Democracy uses Whirlpool as one example in how big business is shafting the taxpayer in this country.

Quote Reclaim Democracy:WASHINGTON — Lobbying for special tax treatment produced a spectacular return for Whirlpool Corp., courtesy of Congress and those who pay the bills, the American taxpayers.

By investing just $1.8 million over two years in payments for Washington lobbyists, Whirlpool secured the renewal of lucrative energy tax credits for making high-efficiency appliances that it estimates will be worth a combined $120 million for 2012 and 2013. Such breaks have helped the company keep its total tax expenses below zero in recent years.

The return on that lobbying investment: about 6,700 percent.

The article goes on to explain just how this travesty is allowed to happen:

Quote Reclaim Democracy:The Senate approved tax benefits for Whirlpool and a host of other corporations early on New Year’s Day, a couple of hours after the ball dropped over Times Square and champagne corks began popping. A smorgasbord of 43 business and energy tax breaks, collectively worth $67 billion this year, was packed into the emergency tax legislation that avoided the so-called “fiscal cliff.’’

In the days that followed, the tax handouts for business were barely mentioned as President Obama and members of Congress hailed the broader effects of the dramatic legislation, which prevented income tax increases on the middle class and raised top marginal tax rates for the wealthy.

Thanks for the replay DAnne just as I thought. I hate when government gets involved in business. Years ago a competitor of mine received a grant that I didn't get it made the playing field so imbalanced it almost put me under. When the government takes our tax money it should be spent on the people not business.

The United States is well on the way to being a 3rd world country. There are many reasons for this, too many people, not enough decient jobs, too much automation, too much outsourcing, rising costs & decline of essential resources like oil & natural gas, fighting endless illegal wars & occupations that use huge amounts of oil & other scarce resources. We are not "homo sapians sapians" but homo stupideous.

There will be no recovery. To recover we need to grow, to grow we have to use more resources like oil & natural gas but those fossil resources are in decline. Fracking is just the last gasp of the oil age & for an economy that needs cheap oil to grow, we have no way to go but down. We are headed for a economic collapse.

We cannot support needed programs as long as this corrupt government refuses to raise taxes on the rich, the very profitable corporations, raise tariffs, cut subsidies for oil, gas, coal & agriculture, it incourages outsourcing with tax incentives, it permits fossil fuel extraction at maximum rates speeding it's exhaustion & we have nothing to replace it. We are burning our bridge while we are still on it. Then there is the disaster at Fukushima that no one wants to talk about. 300 thousand gallons of radioactive water has been pouring from Fukushima into the ocean since 2011 & radioactive contaminaltion consentrates as it moves up the food chain being highest in the top preditors like tuna & us.

Sure the ocean water here is "safe" so far, but is our seafood "safe"? I am not going to be eating any Pacific tuna or Salmom, I think the crab is still safe but for how much longer? So far, the crab season has been a bust, the crabs aren't there. More radioactive water is due to hit us the first of next year. Will the government be checking our seafood to see how much radioactive contamination it has? If it does, don't expect the government to tell us anything about it, might hurt business. We are on our own, don't expect any help from the government, we have to do our own monitoring of our seafood for radioactive contaminents. Good luck.

I personally will not shop now at Walmart since they refuse to support living wage.

I will buy Creedo Mobile not Att because they lobby for a political sanctions that promotes businesses instead of we the people who actual make the money.

I will not buy gmo foods that have no taste or buy anything other than organic foods.

I will use natural medicines not pharmacutical junk that creates ten other side effects for each pill.

My money spending is the only real power of change I think I have!

Because most of my words I think fall on closed minds.

I can only hope and pray people massively repeat some of these actions for their own good.

Alice a lot of Walmarts employees have done very well off the Walton's. Not to mention all the pension plans that are doing well also. don't get me wrong I hate Walmart but one of my sons got his first job there that is where he met his wife As it was her first job to. He was 16 and it was a great stepping stone to bigger and better things.

is the min wage in the US $7.25. and is that a national thing Or is it state by state.

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David vs. Goliath comes to mind contemplating the enormity of an uncaring, overwheming, and ultimately destructive economic engine scouring both our natural resources and the clawing away at the integrity of the society - of the individual men, women, and children witnessing in slow motion the destruction their dreams and moreover, the loss of faith in their heart. There is no greater loss.

Insulated by special tax incentive programs, protected by delussional rights of personhood, emboldened by legal protectionism through immunity from civil liability, a handful of monolithic corporations control, if not dictate the living standards, available medical care, the affordability to pursue higher education, and methodically curtail the right to vote or whether votes can be verified.

Wall Street is at an all time high. Corporations float in money. The rich are still busy with the 2008 Bush fire sale. One quarter of homes here in Sacramento are owned by hedge fund owners With a tax rate of 13%. Congress can't get anything done. The media is consumed with pointless stories arguing the color of Santa's skin And the war son Christmas. One would never know millions of children will be loosing their food stamps.

Perhaps we have become too complacent and comfortable with "New deal" programs. Those before us knew the pain of hunger and detrimental impact of mass unemployment; of elders living in destitute poverty; and the suffering when someone cannot reach their potential. Without these programs, the masses would be in the streets demanding work, employee rights, healthcare for all, and educational opportunities.

Goliath is doing well. David forgotten his moral compass and "unalienable rights." I wonwhat if there is a threshold that might wake up David. How many factories need to be closed? How many homes last to foreclosure? How many unverifiable elections? How much college debt? How many more wars?

i am hopeful. Hoping to keep my faith.

Re corporate welfare.,

Big money controls America's political process, and so they help themselves to tax payers money., Money that should FEB used for roads, public schools, health care, police,fire dept, parks, EPA, etc, is siphoned off to wealthy corporations (and so the wealthy are first in line for receiving govt money, then conservatives complain there is no money for public services.. Ironically what money was supposed to be used for in the first place).

Here are the details:

In america big money fought hard to overcome regulations put in place after the Great Depression to prevent it from happening again).. The problem is that big business (not small business), when unregulated, become powerful gestalts, profit above ethics, human rights,workers rights, environment, or even the future (since they operate on the three year prospectus).. To sum it up, they operate like a big game of monopoly, and we quickly have one winner (great for the 1-percent, but everyone else is screwed).

America is not a democracy, rather anerica is fascist because big money controls the outcomes of elections (via media ownership, allowing propaganda, and legalized bribery called campaign contributions).. Big money uses the media to activate a gullible demographic to vote against their own best interests, and that of the country (since not everyone votes or even understands the issues, activating this demographic to vote has made it possible for big money to control the out come of elections, by controlling this gullible demographic).

Basically, big business has turned the american political process into nothing more than a cog in a wheel, of the profit making engine of the 1-percent.

This would not be such a dire emergency, except for the fact big business has become so wealthy, they have literally bought congress (a congressional seat goes for a a little more than a million dollars.. Nothing for billionaires)..

This is an intolerable situation for 99-percent of Americans.

I totally agree with you. I hope the worker cooperative movement gains more traction in the US, as it has in other countries. I also want to point out that workers in the government sector are also being abused-except for those at the top of the income scale, who have all the power. The gap between the highest & lowest paid is expanding w/ public sector jobs, too. Most employees have been living with flat or decreased wages & cuts in benefits. The Right has managed to convince the public that we have "cushy" jobs w/ fat benefits, & turn the anger & frustration of private sector workers onto government employees. But, we're all in this together-when we lose, everyone else loses, too, in the race to the bottom. A public sector employee losing pay & benefits doesn't help the private sector employees, it hurts them. I want to see everyone have a decent salary, vacation time that's in line w/ other developed countries, paid sick leave (for God's sake, we don't even have that as a legal right!), and a pension, instead of being subjected to the perils of the stock market w/ a 401K. We need to strengthen unions & make sure everyone can be in one who wants to. If you have the option, join a union-they need the support!

Probably paradox was a better word than irony.

chuck1949 from chuck1941 (assumes DOB) -- last things first, you say many businesses have closed in the last 18 months, but there has been no increase in the federal min wage. So why do you think that is happening? I think it is for the same reason that 50,000 factories were closed during the W administration.

There is a third way to accommodate the raise in wages. That way is to decrease CEO pay. The problem with the two ways you suggest is that if they could do those they already would have. If they could raise the price and still make as much profit, why wouldn't they have. One has to assume they have already determined the optimal point on the supply/demand curve. Each employee that is currently working is providing more profit than he is paid. If one fires an employee, he loses that profit.

I am interested where you got the data. I don't doubt what you are saying I am just interested in the source. I was not talking about factories. I was talking about restaurants, small stores, fast food places, car dealers. These businesses are or were owned by local businessmen. These businesses do not have CEOs. You can decrease CEO pay if you do not have one. A huge majority of businesses are privately owned and do not have CEOs. These businesses employed the majority of working people.

currently,each employee that is currently working is providing more profit than he is paid but at 15 dollars/hour that will be still true. There will be just far fewer of them. You think it is hard to find an employee at Walmart now - just wait. I have been an hourly employee as well as a salaried one. I have worked since I was twelve and I know one thing. If a business does not make a profit, it will be open long. Owners will do what they to done to turn a profit. They will wait tables, wash dishes, and do whatever to the business going. They will also have their wives/husbands and children do the same. They will employ less people and more family.

Gross income minus cost of operation equals profit. We have not even addressed the increase of costs of goods and services.

Why do I think so many businesses are closing without an increase in the minimum wage. What cost has gone up significantly or will go up? The largest expense businesses have is health care and benefits. I read in the last few days over 900,000 Californians have dropped their new health care policies because of cost.

We have employer in this area who made almost all of his 200 employees part-time because he could not to stay open if he had to provide benefits. If you raise the minimum wage to 15 dollars/hr, there will be 200+ people out of work.

As wages go up so do prices............. Maybe all employers will eventually operate like Walmart.

1949 from 1941 -- My numbers are from Bernie Sanders and Thom. Where did you read the 900,000 that dropped their policies?

I agree with economic dynamic that DAnneMarc describes. The only problem with our theory or yours is another epiphany that Thom came up with. If any business quit because of the minimum wage, it would be front and center on the RW media. How many actual examples have you seen? Saying you are going to close if the min wage is increased is far different from actually closing. I think the consensus of all the studies of the effect of an increase in the min wage is that the number of jobs in an area remains the same, but the GDP increases. The RW (e.g. Peter Schiff) comes up with the example in the Samoan Islands (?) of a big loss of jobs when the min wage was increased. The only problem with the example is that all the other surronding island states had a similar loss of jobs with no min wage increase. The base problem was the economic downturn that effected all travel, the tourist industry was the main enterprise of all the islands.

If that employer made all those 200 plus employees part time (in CA did they not pass a law that it had to be 8 hours to be considered part time), did he hire an additional 800 employees to keep porviding the same level of service? All those employees can now go the CA exchange and buy insurance.

at 63 i could go and try to get one of those 8 to 10 dollar per hour jobs that will only hire for a max of appx 19 to 32 hours per week but then id have to give up a good portion of my retirement (which i was forced into since there hasnt been any desent paying work to avoid retirement). and have the will to work for less money than i originally started my working career for over 46 years ago (proportionatly speaking.) I started out at 2.75 per hr. the then min .wage but i was able to have a car and insure it and save enough to move out of my parents house and live on my own with a 40 hour per week job. WHAT CAN A YOUNG PERSON STARTING OUT NOW A DAYS ACCOMPLISH WITHOUT WORKING 3 JOBS AND IT STILL WOULD BE TIGHT WITH NO SAVINGS.!!!!!!