The Boehner Lawsuit: The Caucus Room Conspiracy Continues

If you can’t impeach, go after “executive overreach.” So, is this "Impeachment V2.0? Or is it "Birth Certificate V2.0"? Back on December 19,1998, Republicans in the House of Representatives officially started impeachment procedures against then-President Bill Clinton, on two charges, one of perjury and one of obstruction of justice.

Chief Clinton witch-hunter Kenneth Starr claimed to have proof that Clinton had broken the law during his handling of the Monica Lewinsky and Paul Jones scandals. But the Clinton impeachment was really just part of the perpetual Republican strategy to tie up and hobble any Democratic presidency. And the impeachment did keep Clinton preoccupied for a while.

In fact, it was during the impeachment proceedings that Clinton was busy trying to hunt down Osama Bin Laden. The Clinton administration even attacked a known location of Bin Laden, and missed killing him by a mere 30 minutes. Arguably, if the Clinton administration didn’t have the impeachment to worry about, they could have devoted more effort and undivided attention to tracking Bin Laden down, and quite possibly could have gotten him when they had the chance.

But while Republicans did succeed in bogging down the Clinton administration during the impeachment procedures, they didn’t succeed with the public. Immediately after Republicans in the House voted to impeach President Clinton, a CBS News/New York Times poll found that 61% of Americans disapproved of the House’ efforts to remove Clinton from office.

And, that same poll found that, if there were a Senate trial phase of the impeachment process, which there was, 68% of Americans were against the conviction of Clinton and his removal from office. Similarly, Clinton had a 73% approval rating in the CBS News/New York Times poll.

Basically, while Republicans succeeded in bogging down the Clinton presidency, they really shot themselves in the foot with the American public, and came up looking like fools for even going after Clinton. Now, fast-forward to today.

This week, Speaker of the House John Boehner emphatically announced that he was planning to sue President Obama, claiming that Obama has "exceeded his authority." Merits of the lawsuit aside for a second, this is all about bogging down the Obama presidency, and preventing it from doing anything meaningful for the American people, like Republicans have been trying to do throughout the Obama presidency.

And, in a bonus, by saying that our first Black president is "illegitimately" using presidential powers, they're shouting out to the right-wing racists just like they were years ago when they were demanding that he prove his legitimacy as president by providing his birth certificate. And Republicans are going to sue Obama, instead of trying to impeach him, to avoid the political and public opinion backlash they faced with the Clinton impeachment.

So, by suing President Obama, Republicans get all of the benefits of impeachment, without any of the liabilities. They can still take control of the news cycle, tie up the Obama administration, and dictate the when’s, where’s and how’s. But make no mistake about it: there is absolutely no legitimacy to Boehner’s threats to sue President Obama.

This is all about political strategy, and the same Taliban insurgency-like tactics - a phrase used by Republican Congressman Pete Sessions after the Caucus Room Conspiracy meeting in January of 2009 - to hobble the Obama presidency. Speaker Boehner says that the lawsuit would be about President Obama’s runaway use of executive orders, and his abuse of executive powers.

The only problem is that President Obama hasn’t been abusing executive powers, or usurping congressional authority with executive orders. The Brookings Institute has put together a great graph of the use of executive orders by presidents since the birth of our nation. And, as the graph clearly shows, President Obama has issued fewer executive orders than any other president since Grover Cleveland.

So, claims by Boehner and Republicans that President Obama is out-of-control when it comes to issuing executive orders are flat out wrong, and out of touch with reality. And that makes it all the more clearer that any lawsuit brought against President Obama wouldn’t be about the merits, but about politics and, for the white supremacists in the Republican Party, about race.

It would be a continuation of the Taliban-like insurgency plan that was hatched back on the night of January 20, 2009 by Republican lawmakers and strategists, before President Obama had even taken office, at The Caucus Room restaurant here in Washington.

Speaking about the meeting, Congressman Pete Sessions, who was in attendance, told The National Journal that, “Taliban Insurgency, we understand perhaps a little bit more because of the Taliban. Insurgency is the way they went about systematically understanding how to disrupt and change a person's entire processes. And these Taliban -- is an example of how you go about to change a person from their messaging to their operations to their frontline message. And we need to understand that Insurgency may be required when [dealing with] the other side.”

Sessions went on to say that, “If they [democrats] do not give us those options or opportunities then we will then become Insurgency ... I think Insurgency is a mindset and an attitude that we're going to have to search for and find ways to get our message out and to be prepared to see things for what they are, rather than trying to do something about them.”

And at the dinner meeting itself, now Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy was quoted as saying that, “We've gotta challenge them on every single bill. Show united and unyielding opposition to the president’s economic policies.”

Since the night before President Obama even took office, Republicans have been deliberately trying to tank the Obama presidency, at the expense of the American people. Any lawsuit that Speaker Boehner brings against the president will just be part of these same old dirty Republican tactics. Nothing more and nothing less. This is part impeachment V2.0 and part birth certificate V2.0.

Comments

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 2 years 43 weeks ago
#1

Man-oh-man, am I tired of these soap opera dramas in the halls of Congress! Who else in the USA gets paid a six-digit salary with vacations and healthcare, for not doing their jobs? We Americans are such suckers. - AIW

Vegasman56 2 years 43 weeks ago
#2

As anybody consider the fact, that Speaker John Boehner is filing this Lawsuit/Impeachment on the president, for he can remain as speaker of the house, and it will boost his numbers for his reelection. Will the speaker and the Republicans Congress ever understands how much damage he is doing to this country, along with the Republican/Conservative congress and the tea party, does he not know it shows that racism is still alive and well in this country to the rest of the world, and that our history is not far behind us.

This country is supposed to be setting the example that we have equality for every American, but yet again, we are not running from our pass, more likely trying to return to it, which points to this President like no other President, the first black President in United States History. I believe that the speaker is making a bluff; on this Lawsuit/Impeachment, it is just for his own benefit, and quite embarrassing to all Americans. One more thing, Let us not repeat history!


Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 2 years 43 weeks ago
#3

Who hasn't already sued Obama? The state of Texas has sued Obama 25 times now. Rand Paul has sued Obama. Even Chris Hedges has sued Obama. The ACLU has sued Obama. The Catholic Business Group has sued Obama. Activists have sued Obama. It goes on and on....

So what if Boner sues Obama....They are both so full of shit it is a waste of time being concerned about it. I wish we'd impeach Obama for being a bad representative of the people who voted for him. He did just fine for the monied powers who backed him. But he let the majority of people down. Screw him...impeach him..who cares...it's all just theatrics anyway. It's just a way to keep democrat voters scared stiff that the Republicans might win next time...so they will keep voting Democrat and not riot in the streets or vote for some rogue party like the Greens. Or, shut my mouth, maybe even a communist party! The Democrats will sell us out anyway...they always do. The game is rigged...it doesn't really matter who wins. The democrat voters need to wake up to reality!

You are right, Aliceinwonderland, it is just a soap opera. And they are yodeling for us all to soap up and bend over so they can screw us all again.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 2 years 43 weeks ago
#4

Palin, I agree that the two-party system sucks. And like you, I'd prefer a third party more representative of us and our interests. But where we don't agree is on your point that it "doesn't really matter who wins". The hell it doesn't. Had Romney won, my husband and I would not be on Medicaid... and that's just one example. What's more, as Chuck points out, it was the Dems who were behind Card Check, which came very close to passing. When you say it doesn't matter who wins, you might as well be telling everyone not to bother voting, playing right into the hands of the fascists who would be delighted if we didn't vote. - AIW

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 2 years 43 weeks ago
#5

Aliceinwonderland: That's just what the Dems wanted you to think...that they were behind Card Check. And the ACA was a windfall for the insurance companies.

I believe that if Romney had won, that we would have been out in the streets, en masse, rioting against the crooked system. Remember, the $700 billion bank bailouts created in the Bush administration, were to take effect after the next election...(in Obama's term). They needed to keep us off guard and hopeful that Obama was going to change things. Had Romney been elected president and the bailout occurred on his watch, it very well could have caused rioting. Instead, the ruling elite played plan B and hyped the people with the great savior, Obama, who was going to make everything right again for us little people. Just let this little $700billion bailout go through and later Obama and the Dems will make things all better.

Well they fed us false hope, as they always do and, once elected, they do just what the ruling elite wanted them to do...sneak things in the back door...and then blame everything on the Republicans (convenient temporary scapegoats...although very deserving of our hatred and disgust..because they would, obviously, screw us too). The Republicans are scourge of the earth, for sure, but they are only part of the problem. The Republicans, also owned by the ruling elite, have to sit it out and will do everything they can to make Dems look bad. They want to be in charge again, obviously. We will never survive if we keep playing their game.

My friends in California, who had signed up for ACA Blue Shield of California, tell me that they are having nothing but problems. And that it was even in the news about how almost impossible it is to even get through by phone to Blue Shield and that many of the doctors on Blue Shield's list were not actually part of Blue Shield network. And they have a problem now, because they are just turning 65 and now have Medicare, and want to cancel Blue Shield because...why pay for both BS and Medicare? And they couldn't find anything anywhere (especially on the BS website) on how to transition over to Medicare. They've seen some scare stories about people who have even written and left emails to BS to cancel yet they keep sending bills and eventually it ruined their credit. It's like Hotel California...once you enter...you can never leave! They easily take your money but what do you get in return? Check out Yelp...all very bad reviews...all 1 stars with people saying they would give BS many minus stars if they could. Damn insurance rackets!

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 2 years 43 weeks ago
#6

Palin, I think Chuck had statistics to back up his claim that the Dems supported Card Check. Aside from that, I'm not so sure that folks would be rioting in the streets had Romney been elected. Maybe, maybe not. Yeah we've had Occupy and Moral Monday movements, but there's still an awful lot of complacency in this country. Not much to take for granted.

You needn't convince me the system is rigged and that we've been duped by Obama. You don't have to remind me that the ACA falls way short of what this country needs. I'm also well aware that some folks have been hurt, rather than helped, by the ACA, which really, really sucks. My husband & I happened to be among the lucky ones who actually benefitted from the ACA, for which I'm enormously grateful. But please remember, I'm a single-payer gal; you're preaching to the choir! - AIW

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 2 years 43 weeks ago
#7

Aliceinwonderland: I'm sure Chuckle8 does have statistics to back up the illusion that the Democrats were for Card Check but I think that is all it is... an illusion. I think that they all know just how many can vote for something just enough to make it appear that the Party was for something yet knowing full well, and by design, that it wouldn't pass.

It's all rigged to make it appear that we little people have an ally in the Democrat Party when, in fact, we don't. It is all designed to foster false hope in order to keep the exploitation machine running.

The Dems had a majority shortly after the 2008 election and they blew it, and I believe it was by design. I believe they blew it on purpose. Sure there were "blue-dog" Democrats and a mob of Republicans but look what happened to our country since.

You can't blame everything on the Republicans..like NDAA..excessive government secrecy..prosecution, or would be prosecution, of whistle blowers...a continuation of the Middle East wars...a continuation of Gitmo and torture policies...assassinations of American citizens...special renditions of American citizens...killer drones that murder innocent civilians...and especially...spying on American citizens.

We don't have a single payer healthcare system. What we do have is merely a knock-off of a Republican healthScare system that favors the Healthcare Medical and Insurance and Pharmaceutical corporations. Nothing has really been done to crack down on Wall Street or reckless banks or crooked top corporate executives. The criminal top executives have not gone to jail and are still hiding their loot in offshore banks...evading taxes. Nothing has been done to stop the offshoring of our jobs.

Obama invited the wolves into the hen house, into his cabinet as advisers, when he appointed some of the people who caused the financial problems in the first place.

One would think that the Republicans, if they really wanted to make Obama look bad, that they would rant about some of those things. But the reason they don't is because they are in favor of all of those things themselves...because their puppet masters, the ruling elite, are in favor of all of those things. So, what do the Republicans rant about? Silly ass things that make them look like immature spoiled brats (which they are).

From the ruling elite standpoint, it helps to push the Democrat voters to vote for a Democrat once again. And the Democrats are needed when the masses get edgy and unpredictable. They can assuage the restive crowds and soothe them back into control by telling them what they want to hear...filling them with false hope. It keeps the Democrat voters from doing something that would derail the power of the ruling elite.

Keeping the Democrats in power just keeps the ruling elite in power. If the Republicans win, the ruling elite stays in power...that is if the masses don't revolt and riot....that's just what they don't want....because they could lose everything. So, they have to keep people playing the same old rigged game of choosing between Democrats or Republicans. Either way we lose and the ruling elite wins.

I tend to agree with you, Aliceinwonderland, that the American people do tend to be rather complacent. But that is because they keep buying into the same old false hope that yet another election of yet more Democrats will fix things and maybe the problem will just go away. It will only be when things get so bad that it will push the masses into doing what is necessary.

I still believe that even if we had a Democrat President and 100% of Congress were Democrats, we wouldn't see any significant changes in our favor. They'd just find some other way of trying to convince us why they couldn't make it so.

Yes, I know, with you and some others, I am "preaching to the choir" and, most likely, many people won't even read what I have written. People shy away from long diatribes.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 2 years 43 weeks ago
#8

Palin- I'm as angry and disillusioned as you. You're preaching to the choir!! - AIW

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 2 years 43 weeks ago
#9

Ok, Aliceinwonderland, I can take a hint...eventually...I've ended my sermon. :-} No sense in whipping a dead horse.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 2 years 43 weeks ago
#10

Pal -- You are correct about several things and maybe all things, but I would like more evidence.

I think you are correct about no one reading long diatribes. However, you failed to mention if you use somebody's name they may read every word.

I have to leave (damn it) but would you provide some evidence that why you do not think if there were 61 dem senators that they would not pass card check.

Also, you need to mention how long the repugs kept Al Franken out of the senate (the repugs surely thought they would pass card check if they had 60 senators). Al Franken arrived and Ted Kennedy got a brain tumor.

More later.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 2 years 43 weeks ago
#11

I don't think there is any "evidence"...at least I don't have any. It's just my belief...my hunch..from years of observation....that the Dems will play the game of pretending to go along with what their constituents (the voters anyway) expect of them. And they will do it only to the extent that the results will end up in a failure and then blame someone else. The more they can blame the Republicans, the more they can frighten people to vote for the Democrats. The Republicans do the same thing. And that works only so long as they can continually convince people that they have no other choice but to vote for one or the other. When people begin to see that it is a rigged game...it really doesn't make much sense to continue the charade. Some people might realize that the only way to change things is to think and act out of the box. And when it has come to that ...it is really scarey. But change doesn't come when you keep repeating the same old errors over and over again. I believe that revolution is inevitable. And revolutions are usually done by younger people. You know, the ones who are not confined to wheel chairs or crutches and who are not going to be here much longer anyway.

But most of these politicians, both Republican and Democrat, are not only fairly wealthy themselves (which usually means that they have spent their lives stealing from the masses in one way or another) but they know who really butters their bread...the monied powers.

They have to play the game of illusion to make themselves look like they are on our side. It is a contest between the Repubs and the Dems, for sure, and each would like to win against the other (except I understand they often wine and dine together like they are buddies...so I hear tell).

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 2 years 43 weeks ago
#12

Pal -- For the 13 weeks the dems were in power they did so many good things. That fact (do you need the list?) does not ring true with your belief. This was in spite of the fact that they were fooled in to believing the repugs were negotiating in good faith. The repugs were only negotiating because they had no power. The prime example of this is the 800 billion stimulus package that had 200 billion in tax cuts.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 2 years 43 weeks ago
#13

Chuckle8: So, I suppose you must think that it is all the Republican's fault that this country has turned into a dystopia where the government spies on us, can assassinate anyone the President thinks is worthy of being assassinated, that the many whistle blowers that have reported on government wrong doing should be prosecuted, etc? Was it the Republicans who forced Obama to take the people who were responsible for most of the economic criminality in the US into his cabinet to be his economic advisers?

You can spout that list of things you've mentioned before but it is token bullshit as far as I am concerned. The really important things have been ignored....like single payer health care, laws to keep banksters and wall streetsters in check, laws to keep jobs in this country and not overseas, laws to force wealthy people and corporations to keep their money in the US and force them to pay their fair share of taxes. As far as I am concerned, the Dems wasted their time on relatively unimportant things in those 13 weeks. The Dems lost out because the people were sick and tired of the Dems playing their games of deception. That's why people didn't turn out en masse to vote for them. I think that many people are on to them and know that neither party is going to go to bat for them. I think many people realize that both parties are owned by the ruling elite and you can't believe anything they say anymore. And as long as they keep fooling people to vote for one party or the other, things will only get much worse for us.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 2 years 43 weeks ago
#14

Palin, you speak my language. I love it! Let 'er rip. - AIW

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 2 years 43 weeks ago
#15

AIW: Thanks! I was looking into the problem that some people will experience with the transitioning from Obama Care to Medicare when they turn 65. Not very much is written about this and it seems to be somewhat of a snafu in that very few people or organizations...including the government....have told us what to expect.

It looks like you can't have Obama Care and Medicare at the same time...I've read that it is not legal. It is not legal for someone to try to sell you Marketplace Insurance (Obama Care) if you already have Medicare (either Original Medicare or Medicare Advantage. I've read that you should cancel your Marketplace Insurance (Obama Care) once you get on to Medicare. But I have not found any of this to be substantiated by Medicare or ACA. Like I said, it appears to be one of those snafus that they forgot to cover. What do you do if you had to sign up for an Obama Care, in order to be not penalized, and you are turning 65 and automatically get put onto Medicare (if you are getting Social Security retirement, you automatically get Medicare both A and B...you can opt out of B if you want but not a good idea)?

Quote A Bridge to Health:Upon becoming eligible for Medicare, an individual with a qualified health plan purchased through an exchange will enroll in Medicare and need to terminate her qualified health plan coverage.

Quote from page 14 "Medicare Transistions".
http://www.medicarerights.org/pdf/A-Bridge-to-Health.pdf
-------
By the way, here is an interesting (maybe shocking...it was for me) web site that has a list of drug prices at Costco (2012 price). There are two columns: one for 100 pills and one for 365 pills (a years supply in some cases). It was shocking to see just how little they cost compared to a typical price you have to pay at the drug store for maybe 30 pills at a time. But just try to get a doctor to write a prescription for 365 pills at one time! Good luck! I was also shocked to read, at this web site, that some medicines are super expensive...like from $900 to over $2000 for 10 pills..and some people need to take many more than that. Temodur was the name...for people who have brain cancer. Something to do with chemotherapy I believe.

And there is a 95 page pdf written by a medical doctor who is spilling the beans about the pharmaceutical/medical rip off.
www.truecostofhealthcare.org

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 2 years 43 weeks ago
#16

Those $200-per-pill medications might as well not exist if scarcely anyone can afford them.

I know an old woman, in her late 80s, with an inoperable cyst on her spine that causes her lots of pain. The 24-hour topical pain patches she needs are $100 each. That's anywhere from $2800 to $3100 a month if she goes through one each day.

It is inhumane to hold people's medicines hostage for fucking profit. When will we all have had enough of this disgusting, cruel racket?! - AIW

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 2 years 43 weeks ago
#17

The medical/insurance people have the system rigged where they will get our money (or someone's money if the costs are paid by insurance) one way or another before we die.

My friends in California told me about some of the charges on their invoices from Blue Shield of California that showed that, of the few times they had gone to the doctor since Jan 1, 2014, when they signed up for ACA, it showed what the clinic or hospital was charging (the billed amount) and what Blue Shield was willing to pay (the amount allowed).
For the 5 visits, 3 were just "Office Med" (office visits) and the initial office visit was over $400 (the billed amount)..the other office visits were about 65% of that. Two of the 5 visits included lab tests. The first one was over $1,000 and the other was about $400. And for each of those 5 visits there was an additional $91.00 billed amount that said "er/clinic/misc" for which Blue Shield considered zero amount allowed, so BS didn't pay it nor did my friends have to pay it. Under ACA, the doctors/hospitals have to agree to the amounts that the provider (Blue Shield) have agreed to. So, no one has to pay the $91 x 5 = $455. In all, for the other visits or lab work the amount allowed was anywhere from 63% to 75% less than the billed amount. In the case of a mammography, there were two billed amounts (of $395 each) and the allowed amounts was $220 for one and $55 for the other. The $220 was not paid by BS and considered "deductible" for which my friends had to pay out of pocket. I don't know why they double charged unless they charged $395 for each breast. And then, what's with the "allowed" difference with BS? And why is one "deductible" and the other not?

The total amount billed since January was almost $5,000 and BS paid for almost $3000.

It was a way of showing us how Blue Shield was keeping the prices down. But, I think that even the prices that BS paid were an overcharge. And they probably use that difference to write off on their taxes. I believe that it's all rigged by the doctors/clinics/hospitals to present the inflated billings knowing full well that they will only get what the insurance companies will pay. And the insurance companies, most likely, fudge their numbers too to make it look like they are an absolute necessity so that people will shell out their premiums with less fuss.

And then there is the "hidden amounts" that BS charges the government for the "subsidized" premiums. What my friends pay in subsidized premiums the government has to pay about 2.5 to 3 times that amount. So, they are all making lots of money.

They do this in stores too. They will price up goods by 30% then advertise a sale of 20% and manage to get 10% more than the original price to begin with. The customer thinks he got a bargain. And this is how a lot of merchants get wealthy by tricking people out of their money. That's the same way wealthy Congress Critters get wealthy as well (both Repubs and Dems). That's the same way people who buy and sell houses...house flippers..or renters....in effect, they are cheating people out of their money....creating the illusion that they are getting something for their money. But what they are doing is driving up the prices and squeezing people out of their hard earned money. It's a crooked game they are all playing and they all think they are hard working and are making an honest buck. Bullsh1t!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 2 years 43 weeks ago
#18

I finally found a credible source for what to do if you are going to turn 65 and will be transitioning to Medicare from the ACA Marketplace insurance companies.

Quote healthcare.gov:
If you have a Marketplace plan, you can keep it until your Medicare coverage starts. Then you can cancel it without penalty.

If you like, you can keep your Marketplace plan too. But if you’ve been getting tax credits or lower out-of-pocket costs on a plan you bought through the Marketplace, these savings will end once your Medicare Part A coverage starts. You’d have to pay full price for the Marketplace plan.

Canceling your Marketplace plan

Once your Medicare coverage starts, you can cancel your Marketplace health plan without penalty. You can do this by contacting the Marketplace call center or cancelling your coverage online.

If you have Medicare coverage, you’re considered covered under the health care law. You won’t have to pay the fee that some people without insurance must pay.

Be sure not to cancel your Marketplace plan before your Medicare coverage begins. Otherwise you may have a gap in coverage.

https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-i-have-a-marketplace-plan-but-will-be...

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 2 years 43 weeks ago
#19

Palin, I find it amusing how the same acronym for "bullshit" (aka "BS") also applies to "Blue Shield". Because let's face it, this is government-sanctioned extortion. "Health insurance" is nothing but bullshit anyway. This is what we get, folks, when essential, life-sustaining services are privatized. Like a wonderful quote I've heard repeated lately: "If you're not at the table, you're on the menu". When a service is privatized, you're not at the table. - AIW

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 2 years 43 weeks ago
#20

Aliceinwonderland: Yes, I too had thought of the BS-Blue Shield --BS-bullsh!t thingy. ;-}

And I think what the capitalist pigs are trying to do is privatize the VA and the Post Office. I believe that some of the top people in VA (and the Post Office) would much rather be in high positions in a privatized company making a lot more money than in their government jobs. I think they are the insiders that are trying to derail the government run operations. But those top administrators in the VA were also pressured to cut costs because the damn Republicans wouldn't approve the necessary funding for the VA. And now, if you watch CSPAN you'll see those Republican (and Democrat) congress people hypocritically accusingly interrogating those VA administrators. Not that they shouldn't have their feet held to the fire...they should. But they are ignoring the fact that the Congress made cuts to VA...it is largely their fault to begin with.

If you think VA is bad...and it wasn't really having problems everywhere as bad as the problems they had in Phoenix...just get a taste of privatized health care when everyone is forced to pay high premiums and still can't get through on the phone to make appointments with their doctors. There are long waiting times to see a doctor in the private healthcare systems as well. They have death panels in the private healthcare system based on a profit motive. They need to keep increasing the money they take in from the insured so that they can keep the stockholders and CEOs and other top execs making millions, or billions, of dollars a year.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 2 years 43 weeks ago
#21

Palin- toxic capitalism to the extreme…. the Blood-Sucking Octopus From Hell. Do you think your Flying Spaghetti Monster could take him down? - AIW

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 2 years 43 weeks ago
#22

Aliceinwonderland ~ The Flying Spaghetti Monster can take anyone/anything down. That's one bowl of pasta you don't want to get boiling mad.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 2 years 43 weeks ago
#23

Aliceinwonderland: Blood-sucking octopus is right! If you can't trust the Justice Department......

I got out of jury duty once when I mentioned that I had read several controversial books on the justice system and that I would probably find the accused innocent based upon what I read in those books. The judge immediately dismissed me and I haven't been called for jury duty since. That was over a decade ago. There were other potential jury members who expressed that they would be prone to find the accused guilty and expressed how they hated people associated with drugs. Those potential jury members weren't dismissed.

How can we sit on a jury in judgement of others when the entire legal/law enforcement/judicial system is corrupt and guilty of the most violent and vehemently odious crimes themselves. It would be aiding and abetting criminals in sending the little "criminals", who themselves may be victims of the big criminals, to jail.

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/casolaro_octopus.htm

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the same kind of fiction as all the other "just pretend" dieties so I don't think the FSM will fix anything unless it makes people wake up to the ridiculousness of their beliefs in more traditional nonsense.

ps: I wonder if they ever found out who knocked off William Colby...that too was a very strange story.

http://www.pythiapress.com/wartales/colby.htm

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 2 years 43 weeks ago
#24

PD, I agree with your basic premise that the so-called "justice" system is anything but. However during my recent stint as a grand juror, I voted to send every one of those assholes to trial. Like the little twit who, during a family spat, fired a gun at her mother-in-law; various people caught driving drunk; these weird-ohs who murdered someone in their apartment, over an unpaid cab fare; a petty thief caught red-handed, etc. etc.

Now, please understand, I would've much rather have had the opportunity to indict a war criminal or two, or some big-time sleazebag bankster! But I don't happen to like drunk drivers, gun nuts or thieves either.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster, just fiction? Hey I've been duped. Gimmie my money back! - AIW

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 2 years 43 weeks ago
#25

You have a point, Aliceinwonderland! Actually, several. But with the preponderance of would-be "hang-em high" willing jurors out there....they are much better without me as a juror anyway.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 2 years 43 weeks ago
#26

DAnneMarc: Beware the fearsome wrath of the FSM and the loathsome Frumious Bandersnatch. One pill makes you larger, and one pill makes you small! Go ask Dr. Pangloss...who says it all.... in order "to prove the existence of design in the universe,....'that noses were made to carry spectacles, and so we have spectacles.' "
http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/19942/pg19942.txt

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 2 years 43 weeks ago
#27

Palindromedary ~ I've spent my fair share of time in Jury Duty too; and, this is what I would change if I had my way. I would completely eliminate the process of 'venire'. This is the process used to 'discover the truth'. It is intended to eliminate anyone who has prejudice in any way toward the trial. I think this is bull $h!t on steroids.

The founding fathers expressed in the Constitution that the accused should be entitled to be tried by a JURY OF THEIR PEERS. What exactly is that; and, what is it not. Many feel that it is a jury of people who have no idea what is going on. I disagree! A jury of peers should be people selected from the same community at random. It should never be contested regardless of the experiences of the members. In fact, members who have prior experience represent the best candidates for the job. I would chose a jury by lot and nothing else.

As far as the FSM and his wrath is concerned just look at the World Cup and the latest total devastation of Mexico at the hand of the Netherlands. Here you have the most obedient Catholic nation in the world vs a bunch of hedonistic pagans. (Personally I find the Netherlands to be the liberal and progressive Capital of the world. However, that's just me. I certainly can't speak for all Christians.) Nevertheless, after all the time, money, and effort spent by Mexicans in their worship and church support, when push came to shove and they needed that last 20 degree shove in a free kick for a ball by their God, that God blew them off.

As far as I am concerned, THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER RULES!!!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 2 years 43 weeks ago
#28

Well, thank you, DAnneMarc, I learned a new word..Venire. I was on a Venire and didn't even know it! Maybe the Venire should come from people who volunteer rather than from people picked from random. I would really hate, and be torn, to vote against someone who is being accused of a crime that I didn't believe should be a crime in the first place.

I haven't been keeping up with what the World Cup is all about. I am not much interested in sports as a spectator. I used to be very active in sports but never watch sports on TV. I've heard tiny bits about FIFA being a fascist rip off but don't really know what that's all about.

Flying Spaghetti Monster....ummm, now, I'm getting hungry. Eateth of my flesh? Sounds good with turkey meat balls .

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 2 years 43 weeks ago
#29

Palindromedary ~ Now you're making me hungry!

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 2 years 43 weeks ago
#30

Yes the repugs are responsible for all those things. You need to read "The Spirit Level". 30 years of reaganomics and you are bitching that 13 weeks could not cure it. If you were not following the republican playbook to the letter, I might listen better.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 2 years 43 weeks ago
#31

But, Chuckle8, you are obviously following the Ruling Elite playbook. They own the Dems just like they own the Repubs. To listen to you, all we have to do is to get more Dems in power but you obviously can't see how the Dems are going to hoodwink us into voting for them, once again, and they'll do just what the ruling elite wants them to do.

Voting for Dems won't change things. Only when people realize that and massively take to the streets and boycott and cause all manner of consternation making the ruling elite fear that their time is up, that they can no longer hoodwink us into playing their rigged game, will the ruling elite relent and stop being such conniving bastards. As long as they don't have to fear mobs in the streets they will keep stringing us along. They'll keep using the Dems to feed us false hope and they'll keep screwing us.

I was saying this before Obama was elected for the second time. I voted for him the first time and saw what happened and spoke out against voting for him the second time. And I was right...many people who voted for him the second time have come to realize that Obama didn't do a turn around, as they expected, he got worse.

And now many people, who just can't seem to learn a lesson, will think that they have to vote for the Dems again..thinking it is their only choice. Something very shocking will have to come out of masses of people before anything will really change.

One thing very shocking would be to overwhelmingly vote the Green Party into power...it would break the hold of a long historical precedence. Or vote any other party into power BUT the Republicans or the Democrats. It would really send a strong message if we voted into power a Communist, or even a Socialist party. Sh1t would hit the fan for sure.

Failing that, even if the Republicans get in (or, especially if the Republicans get in), it may just usher in a new, long in coming, revolution against the corrupt two party system. If they manage to vote in more Democrats, then it will more than likely do just what it was manipulated to do ...create yet more false hope... defusing what is most likely necessary for real change to happen..that is...a full scale massive revolution against the ruling elite.

Something has to happen to make the Democrat Party straighten up and fly left! If they realize that they cannot rely on the old "vote for the least evil" ...or... "it would just be too much to risk to let the Republicans be in full control again" ploys then maybe it might shock them into actually fighting as hard for liberals/progressives who voted them into power as Republicans fight for their poor deluded voters.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 2 years 42 weeks ago
#32

Pal -- I thought the ruling elite wrote the repug playbook.

When the dems were able to get their wounded stimulus package by the repugs, I thought it was token bullshit. It should have been $2 trillion. The wounded package was $800 billion with at least $200 billion in tax cuts. I was stunned by the results. We went from losing 700,000 jobs a month at increasing rate to gaining 200,000 jobs a month. 200,000 is far less than we need, but now I would not call it token bullshit.

I think the passing of card check would help more than any voting for greens. Admittedly, I would be scared that voting for greens or whatever would create a more fascist govt. You say it would get people into the streets. It might, but I am more concerned it would enable a security state that would last for a thousand years e.g. the dark ages. The people in the streets would be the excuse to create the security state.

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to understand how to respond when they’re talking about public issues with coworkers, neighbors, and friends. This book explores some of the key perspectives behind his approach, teaching us not just how to find the facts, but to talk about what they mean in a way that people will hear."
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