Time To Start Treating Guns Like Abortions

It's time we start regulating guns like we regulate abortions.

Because it just makes sense that we regulate these individual rights in the same way.

Because the Supreme Court, in the Heller case, concluded that there is an individual right to own firearms found in the Second Amendment - just like they ruled in Roe v. Wade that there is an individual right to have an abortion found in the Fourth Amendment.

Yet - the Supreme Court notwithstanding - Republicans have spent over 40 years regulating abortion providers and inserting themselves into the lives of women seeking a safe and legal abortion.

Thus, in the midst of this gun crisis we are experiencing in America, it's time to start regulating gun dealers and people trying to buy guns in a similar way - particularly since the Second Amendment is the only one that actually uses the word "regulated".

It anticipates regulation.

Twenty-seven states require that a woman get counseling before an abortion, often including exposure to graphic pictures or ultrasound images.

So why don't we require people trying to buy guns undergo counseling that graphically teaches how many children are killed in households where guns are kept and shows pictures of those dead children?

After all, statistics show that if you have a gun in your home, it is far more likely that your children will injure or kill themselves with it than that you will use it to stop a crime.

And that counseling session should also graphically inform the potential gun owner about the fact that the more guns there are in a community, the more likely people in that community are to commit suicide with them.

A number of states require that women be given ultrasounds, and that the doctor must display and describe the ultrasound image to the woman.

So wouldn't it be a good idea to require that any potential gun buyer undergo a background check in addition to a battery of psychological tests - maybe do a brain scan - and then be forced to learn in detail about the results?

And while we're at it, we should re-enforce rules on waiting periods. So that anyone who has to buy a gun has to wait at least 48 hours after counseling and psychological screening before finalizing any purchase, just like so many states of waiting periods for abortions.

Then let's take a look at the provider: nearly half of the states have special regulations for both the doctor and the facilities where the abortions are performed.

Twenty-two states require abortion facilities to maintain standards on that far exceed for more expensive than what is necessary to perform an abortion.

So why don't we put similarly tough standards on gun ranges and gun stores?

If an abortion clinic has to be comparable to a hospital, then a gun range should have standards comparable to a military base or a police station.

There should be narrowly described standards for the materials used to construct a shooting range - the distance between stalls should be regulated to minimize the collateral damage from different types of misfires.

We should tightly regulate how guns are handled within those spaces. Every range should have a quartermaster. And every person who works in a gun range or a gun store should be required to have several years of EMT training in emergency medical techniques and the law.

It just makes sense - and it would just be consistent.

If we're going to regulate a woman's Fourth Amendment right to an abortion so tightly - we should do the same for the Second Amendment right to buy and own a gun.

There are actually strong and rational reasons for this. .

Every six months - guns kill more Americans through accidents, homicide, and suicides than have died in the last 25 years in both terrorist attacks and in the Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq - combined.

And more Americans have died from gun violence in the US since 1968 than died on every battlefield of every war in American history all the way back to the American Revolution - combined.

And according to Harvard professor David Hemenway, American children are 14 times more likely to die from guns than children are in developing countries.

It's about legal consistency.

Even though the constitution protects a woman's right to an abortion, states have found draconian measures to make exercising that right onerous and discouraging.

And that's exactly why - and how - we should start regulating the right to buy and own guns in America.

It would save lives and bring America back into the community of civilized nations.


mathboy's picture
mathboy 7 years 38 weeks ago

I'd like to say that Adam Schiff's complaint is a sign that presidential campaigns are too long, but the House Government Oversight Committee has been working on Hillary since before the 2012 presidential election.

mathboy's picture
mathboy 7 years 38 weeks ago

Yay, I can finally show it. I get annoyed sometimes by people overdoing accents. When you're speaking your native language, it's okay to pronounce the names of foreign places with your language's phonemes and other speech patterns. You don't have to say them exactly they way the natives of that area would say them.

Jimmy Smits on SNL, "Enchilada": http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/enchilada/n9970

mathboy's picture
mathboy 7 years 38 weeks ago

Huckabee's an idiot. You can't post bail if you're jailed on contempt of court.

mathboy's picture
mathboy 7 years 38 weeks ago

On the subject of when summer ends, I refer you to this.


Mark J. Saulys's picture
Mark J. Saulys 7 years 38 weeks ago

Thom said today that "Hillary changed her mind on a few things but good on her". Puhleeeze! Hillary flipped on more issues than ANY politician ANYWHERE, EVER! The slogan of the Clinton's (and don't say she something different from her husband because they always touted themselves as a husband and wife team, she was only "more progressive" than her husband in the Senate was because she then had her finger in the New York wind and didn't have to deal with Arkansas, Alabama, Texas, etc.) was always that they'd rather be "strong and wrong" [on the issues] than "weak and right".
Come back to Earth, Thom, we need you here, not out there.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 7 years 38 weeks ago

Mark S -- You need to stay near to Earth, also, and realize our political system is a winner take all system. Do you have any idea how much worse Scott Walker is than Hillary.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 7 years 38 weeks ago

Mathboy -- I have mathematical (arithmetic) question. Thom keeps saying the VAT is the same as a tariff. I disagree. Please tell me what is wrong with the math in the following simple example.

If it costs $8000 for Indonesia to make an item, and, because of higher labor rates in the USA, it costs $10,000 to make the same item. Assuming Indonesia has a 25% VAT (I have no idea if Indonesia even has a VAT; remember this example is all about the math), the cost to make the item in Indonesia would be $10,000. If they sell the item in the USA they get the $2000 back from the their govt. If the USA sells the item in Indonesia they are charged the extra $2000. It looks like a tariff except for some significant differences. If as Thom suggests, we should introduce a VAT to be more competitive, then the cost of the item made in the USA would be $12,500. The Indonesian govt would no longer charge the $2000, yet the USA would be even less competitive. I can see no way that a VAT would protect American jobs.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 7 years 38 weeks ago

Mathboy -- I responded to your groundhog day blog, just now 3 1/2 years late.

Raypc800 7 years 38 weeks ago


On the gun post of yours. I hear these type arguements all the time and I do agree with needed background checks but I would like to bring out the point that I for one own a weapon. It is in my house, it is unloaded with a cable lock through the chamber into the cartidge compartment. Thus no Ammunition can be put in it. The gun is then in a case with a master padlock on it locked. Only the gun and two emply clips are in there.

The ammunition is located in a cabinet in another room, both are stored where no children or anyone else will easily find. By the way there is only one set of keys and they are with me on my person at all times.

I take all of these precasions for I was trained to by my Father. That is the real problem in America too many people get a weapon and have never been taught how to store it or use it. I was taught that like any tool that I own. It is my responsibility to keep the tools cleaned, properly stored and safe from children.

By the way none of this would of worked if I had not been raised with a general knowledge of common sense ideas. That too is lacking by many today.

a_liberalwomun's picture
a_liberalwomun 7 years 38 weeks ago

@ Mathboy

Yeah, but his peeps (followers-contributors-tithers) think he's riding in the forefront of the neo christian crusade.

He's off to rescue one of his own and will not only fill Kathy's crowdfunding coffer, but his. I can hear it now. cha' ching! cha' ching!

He and his followers suffer from RPD (Religious Personality Disorder)

>>>>Good News!!

No GoFundMe for Kim Davis: Crowdfunding puts the brakes on the disturbing bigots-get-rich-quick trend

If the plan was to fundraise, more platforms aren't going to play along


>>>But as the Davis case unfolds, others, meanwhile, have certainly been eager to turn her into a gravy train — Mike Huckabee is vowing an “#ImWithKim Liberty Rally” on Tuesday,

w1ders's picture
w1ders 7 years 38 weeks ago

In answer to your firearms article, you must be crazeir than most in the anti weapons crowd. Was good for a laugh though.

PFNELKAK 7 years 38 weeks ago

Oh boy, you sure got your head in the sand on this one Thom. There was a comparison of crime stats of two towns near Chicago in the 70's over a 10 year period. One banned guns and had an increase in crime of over 35%. The other town, the mayor required each household to own a gun. The crime rate dropped to almost 0.
So what about all the thousands who die from our pill pushing doctors who haven't a clue on keeping anyone healthy? And they are educated????

Strider54's picture
Strider54 7 years 38 weeks ago

Thom, here's another arguement that might be worth mentioning; The Pope has declared that a woman who has an abortion is now on equal footing with a person who murders someone with a gun, they both can be forgiven. Just one more reason to treat guns and abortions the same.

Kend's picture
Kend 7 years 38 weeks ago

Sorry Thom you are way off. If you buy a gun you might kill some one if you have a abortion you do kill somebody. I was always for a women's right to choose and still am. I do not judge. But I heard my daughter in altrasound at four weeks. Kinda changed my mind. Technology is really showing how alive those little dudes are.

Strider54's picture
Strider54 7 years 38 weeks ago

PFNELKAK Are doctors educated? Talk about having one's head in the sand! Doctors are some of the best educated people in this country. Look up the stats, my friend, you obviously know how to do it.

Strider54's picture
Strider54 7 years 38 weeks ago

Kend People choose to murder someone every day, there's no might about it.

PFNELKAK 7 years 38 weeks ago

strider 54;
So how many pills you pop a day? Some docs are ex. but most will give you a pill and send you home."CALL ME IN THE MORNING"

Mark J. Saulys's picture
Mark J. Saulys 7 years 38 weeks ago

Chuckle 8, we need another fraud to campaign as a progressive and then, when elected, forget what the people want, but instead, listen to the big money and govern as a Republican.

UNC Tarheels's picture
UNC Tarheels 7 years 38 weeks ago

At Raypc800 Only 1 problem with that. You are home alone it's 3 AM in the morning. You are awaken to the sound of glass breaking a burgular has just thrown a cinder block through your sliding glass door. You have 10 seconds to act. Grab your keys and hope you can see in the dark to unlock your safe remove the gun lock and grab a magazine go into the other room and load it.

Do you think if you ask the burgular to wait while you load your gun that he will wait?

UNC Tarheels's picture
UNC Tarheels 7 years 38 weeks ago


have you been smoking marijuana? Gun free zones and gun bans do not work because carreer criminals do not abide by laws. Gun free zones are havens for criminals. Why do you think that there are so many robberies on college campuses? Bad guys know that they won't be met with resistance from college students. As for cities with gun bans look at all the shootings there for a place that is supposed to be gun free they have a lot of killings and those killings are done by criminals. Don't blame guns Thom blame the criminals. Unless you start blaming vehicles for causing DUI's, pencils for spelling errors and spoons for making people fat. I have a right to defend myself. I refuse to be a victim. Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless. You like to qoute Theodore Roosevelt when it comes to corporate personhood. Maybe you read his thoughts on gun control. "The great body of our citizens shoot less as time goes on. We should encourage rifle practice among schoolboys, and indeed among all classes, as well as in the military services by every means in our power. Thus, and not otherwise, may we be able to assist in preserving peace in the world. The first step in the direction of preparation to avert war if possible, and to be fit for war is to teach men how to shoot!"-Theodore Roosevelt

PFNELKAK 7 years 38 weeks ago

#20---right on the money.

So tell me Thom, how do you think you got the freedom you have today? How did the rest of the FREE world get it's freedom? By throwing rocks(#19) at the tyrants and dictators of the world?
Hardly. Ask any vet from WWII and he'll tell you what it takes to keep your freedom. And that includes one entering your house to harm your family. I doubt you would stop him with a few kind words and a few rocks(#19) you left outside because they were too dirty to bring in.
Hardly. (TITLE - cannot compare)

ChicagoMatt 7 years 38 weeks ago

Gun sales and aboritions are the same, in the sense that you can't undo them. You can't un-abort someone, and you can't un-sell the guns that have already been sold. The number I keep hearing is 400,000,000 gun already in the hands of my countrymen. Unless you can guarentee that those guns are all going to be collected, I'm not interested in limiting my ability to join the gunowners in the future.

Willie W's picture
Willie W 7 years 38 weeks ago

Maybe we should treat guns like cars. Demonstrate your knowledge of gun safety and regulations for your area and then be issued a "License to Own." Valid at all gun dealers.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 7 years 38 weeks ago

UNC Tarheels -- Raypc800 has a good plan, since the most probable reason that burglar is breaking into your house is to steal your gun. Do they teach stochastic processes at UNC?

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 7 years 38 weeks ago

UNC Tarheels -- How many armed robberies are there on college campuses?

If Teddy knew about drones, he might have suggested the first step in preparation for war would be to learn computer programming.

The Australian govt restrictions on guns seems to have helped them tremendously.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 7 years 38 weeks ago

ChiMatt -- How about instead of guaranteeing you that all those guns will be collected, I can show you that gun restrictions like those in Australia will significantly reduce the number of homicides.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 7 years 38 weeks ago

Wiilie W -- Your suggestion about "License to Own" is what Thom says all the time.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 7 years 38 weeks ago

PFNELKAK -- You really need to read "The American Revolution of 1800". It seems that the American Revolution of 1776 and both French Revolutions just kept Aristocracy away for 10 to 20 years.

The only way to gain true (i.e. lasting) freedom is by political movements. It worked in the USA in 1800, and, of course, the best example is Gandhi in India.

HisLowness 7 years 38 weeks ago

Let's make it mandatory to have liability insurance for gun buyers and gun owners, just like we do for auto licenses. The industry will then regulate itself.

ChicagoMatt 7 years 37 weeks ago

Thom warns against comparing small, homogenous states like Montana to larger, heterogenous states like California. The same is true for countries. The entire country of Australia is only 23 million people, 95% of whom have Western European roots. It is a false comparrison to consider their laws as being successful in a country that has 15 times as much population, and virtually no common culture.

mjolnir's picture
mjolnir 7 years 37 weeks ago

Reply to post #9:

"An estimated 3.7 million household burglaries occurred each year on average from 2003 to 2007. In about 28% of these burglaries, a household member was present during the burglary. In 7% of all household burglaries, a household member experienced some form of violent victimization (figure 1)."...and your "secure" weapon is going to help you how?

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 7 years 37 weeks ago

mjoinir -- In how many of those household burglaries was the homeowner able to use a weapon to prevent bodily harm? Was it 0.01%? How many times was the owner's weapon used to cause bodily harm to the owner? Isn't it like a 100 times more likely that the latter occurs?

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 7 years 37 weeks ago

ChiMatt -- You did not answer my question. My question was would you change your position if I could show you that stricter gun controls could lower the homicide rate and not guaranteeing that 600,000 weapons could be collected.

You just said that the Australian example would not convince you. Actually you said the Australian example would have to have caveats.

mjolnir's picture
mjolnir 7 years 37 weeks ago

"• An estimated 3.7 million burglaries occurred each year on average from 2003 to 2007.
• A household member was present in roughly 1 million burglaries and became victims of violent crimes in 266,560 burglaries.
• Simple assault (15%) was the most common form of violence when a resident was home and violence occurred. Robbery (7%) and rape (3%) were less likely to occur when a household member was present and violence occurred.
• Offenders were known to their victims in 65% of violent burglaries; offenders were strangers in 28%.
• Overall, 61% of offenders were unarmed when violence occurred during a burglary while a resident was present. About 12% of all households violently burglarized while someone was home faced an offender armed with a firearm.
• Households residing in single family units and higher density structures of 10 or more units were least likely to be burglarized (8 per 1,000 households) while a household member was present.
Serious injury accounted for 9% and minor injury accounted for 36% of injuries sustained by household members who were home and experienced violence during a completed burglary."

I don't know the numbers prevented, do you? What I surmise though is that I'm willing to bet that if you or a loved one were among the 8,000 approx. people who are raped on average in a home invasion, or the thousands more who get the crap beaten out of them every year you would wish a weapon was more accessible.

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 7 years 36 weeks ago

mjolnir -- I agree that I would become irrational if someone beat the crap out of me.

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