Did Carrier Fleece Both Trump & America?

Donald Trump took a victory lap in Indianapolis yesterday afternoon, where he and Vice President elect Mike Pence officially announced a deal to keep 800 Carrier jobs in Indiana.

That's 200 fewer jobs than the 1,000 jobs that Trump initially said the deal would save, but that's kind of besides the point.

This was just an opportunity for Trump to do what he does best: self-promotion - something he definitely needed to do in this case, because the deal isn't all that great.

The media is celebrating it as a win for Trump, but it's actually a win for Carrier.

In exchange for not sending those 800 jobs to Mexico, United Technologies, the company that owns Carrier, will get around $7 million in tax credits from Mike Pence's state of Indiana.

It will also still send around 1,300 jobs south of the border, all while pretending it cares about American workers.

This is basically the opposite of what Trump promised on the campaign trail.

Back in April, he said that if were elected president, he would hit Carrier with "a damn tax" and keep all the jobs in Indiana.

"They ought to do this fast. Let them tell them you're gonna pay a damn tax when you leave this country and you think you're going to sell product because we're all so stupid... And believe me, if I were in office right now, Carrier would not be leaving Indiana, that I can tell you. That I can tell you."

But now instead of saving all the jobs, Trump let most of them go to Mexico, and instead of hitting United Technologies and Carrier with a tax or tariff, he gave them millions in what another era would probably call a bribe.

It doesn't take a genius to realize that the self-proclaimed deal-maker-in-chief got fleeced.

Either that - or he never intended to make a deal to help workers in the first place - and this was all just part of a scam to help big business.


dianhow 6 years 15 weeks ago

TIF 's Tax incentive Financing and DEals like Carrier got cost taxpayers BILLIONS Most folks are lacking in basic math skills ( too much use of calculators in schools ) Asians greatly surpass Americans in Math, Science & more So GOP Keeps cutting education !! Few read except for trashy mags & novels . USA has been dumb ed down for years Millions count on Fox Hannity Drudge Coulter, Savage, and other GOP mouth pieces.

Uncle Ralph's picture
Uncle Ralph 6 years 15 weeks ago

Yeah, and this is the kind of deal he'll be making with Russia and China and Mexico and the EU and whoever else. It may be hard to tell whether Trump got fleeced because the people he was dealing with were so much smarter than him or if he knew all along that the lousy deal he made was just for show. In the end we know for sure who gets fleeced: us.

Progressive Republican's picture
Progressive Rep... 6 years 15 weeks ago

Donald J. Trump.

Yet another Republican who has failed upwards.


Progressive Republican's picture
Progressive Rep... 6 years 15 weeks ago

The intended result of Pres. Ronnie's "Let's-defund-public-education-to-create-generations-of -Americans-stupid-enough-to-vote-GOP" pogrom.


k. allen's picture
k. allen 6 years 15 weeks ago


"If I were to run, I'd run as a Republican. They're the dumbest group,of voters in the country. They believe anything on Fox News. I could lie and they'd still eat it up. I bet my numbers would be terrific.

Donald Trump. (People Magazine - 1998)


..., are you telling me the real people of the American heartland are willing to build their dreams on lies ...? If nothing more, this process will reveal and expose every one of us for who we are - in truth - whatever the outcome.

Rosindabow 6 years 15 weeks ago

Trump never intended anything - except to get elected. He continuously promised to slap a 35% tax on Carrier et al and that in and of itself would be the great equalizer. Companies would not leave becasue they couldn't sell back here in the US without a large tariff being added to their product. Frankly, not a bad idea. But - he didn't do anything even remotely like that. He did exactly what he had been raling about on the campaign trail. He bribed the company to stay with the taxpayer's money. And guess what, not a single member of the tradional media called him on this. This was a "win" for Trump. Bull. This is nothing but smoke and mirrors. He's a con artist through and through. Indianna voters just got fleeced for $7 million.

johnbest's picture
johnbest 6 years 15 weeks ago

Why is asshole Trump making deals. he is not president yet and will never be president if the vote counting in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina and other states is allowed to continue.

Check this out: http://liberalsociety.com/breaking-recount-results-are-so-stunning-that-...

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 6 years 15 weeks ago

Trump represents the party of free trade, and not by accident! You won't see Crooked Donny smacking down little Pauly Ryan regarding the TPP...ain't gonna happen. Until Democrats start speaking out like this during the tiny amount of time they get on shows like Meet the Fascist's, we're doomed to have sand kicked in our faces right on through to Crooked Donny's/Mattis nuclear carpet bombing of ISIS...then it's game over anyway.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 6 years 15 weeks ago

If United Technologies is indeed a government contractor, The Orange Fool should simply threaten that the government will refuse to buy their crap if they move ANY jobs to another country, instead of soaking taxpayers for temporary, unethical bribes. Ditto to all government contractors. If Republicans were truly working for the people instead of their donors, they would find a way to pass the legislation to make that happen, and slap tariffs on every other sleazy, off-shoring conglomerate to boot


Howard Laverne Stewart's picture
Howard Laverne ... 6 years 15 weeks ago

Trump probably got a bribe himself

deepspace's picture
deepspace 6 years 15 weeks ago

He's a walking, talking, dictionary-definition conflict of interest.

Kend's picture
Kend 6 years 15 weeks ago

I will never understand the left. 7 million in tax cuts over ten years to save 800 jobs. $875 a year per job. Math adds up to me. Hopefully he will stick to his promise and give that same incentives to every company and keep millions of more jobs in America. On the other had the left praised Obama when he handed 500 million of hard working tax payer dollars to Solindra to create zero jobs. He isn't even the President yet and he saved more jobs then Obama did in 8 years.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 6 years 15 weeks ago

It could be that you don't understand "the left" (you know, those "other" people) because you're trapped in the "rightwing" bubble of lies and half-truths. Ya think?

Hold your nose and consider "lefty" Nobel-winning Paul Krugman's math: "... at the rate of one Carrier-size deal a week, it would take Mr Trump 30 years to save as many jobs as President Obama did with the auto bailout ..."

Evidently, your own math doesn't quite add up. Depending on which year you begin, ten to fifteen million jobs were generated during the Obama Administration -- not as many as Reagan or Clinton, for sure, but certainly more than W. Bush's dismal 8-some million. From whom, please remember, Obama inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression.

You can "understand the left" further by checking out the infamous "Bikini Graph." The biggest (disingenuous) criticism Republicans can come up with is that the economy didn't recover fast enough for their liking, after they totally tanked it. Well, EXCUUUSE me!

Perhaps your calculator needs a new battery.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 6 years 15 weeks ago

I guess Skeeter and his "Merica" are all basically braindead to the fact that crooked Donny manufactures all of his crap overseas....it's no secret, but never mentioned by the media, heaven forbid.

So we have a scoundrel profiting from the practice of free trade pretending to be upset about free trade. The god damn lies never end...and we're all at fault for not speaking out...hardly a word mentioned about his Trump U scam settlement, or his ongoing charity fraud. I give up!

Fact : Trump lost the election and the Teapublicans lost the Senate..swing states and all! Without NATO stepping in the election fraud will continue. I don't have stages of grief when it comes to fraud. I simply plan on being very very disobedient!!!!! I hope others join me. The fight has just begun.

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 6 years 15 weeks ago

Donald Trump is not yet your president and you are already complaining about him saving jobs.. You got your ass kicked. Stop winning and go out and do something. You have eight years, three Supreme Court Justices, and 97 judges appointments to figure it out.

Let's face it, your biggest fear is Trump may be successful.

I am investing heavily in anti depressant and antacid drug manufacturers.

Go Donald.

Kend's picture
Kend 6 years 15 weeks ago

No deep space I am not in a bubble i am a business owner so have the unfortunate task of making a profit or I go out of business. How you can compare a tax deduction to a bailout is beyond me. Anyone can give away other people's money anyway to buy jobs. Obama put Americans about a trillion dollars a year in debt. Why is it that democrats don't count debt. All those interest payments are digging right into the healthcare and education budgets.

RFord's picture
RFord 6 years 15 weeks ago

I believe Trump is trying to keep the optics up for his base. He may already be planning his 2020 re-election. Then he could say "Remember when I saved all of those thousands of jobs at Carrier?". Remember, the word "facts" is not a part of Trump's vocabulary. I don't klnow how many of his voters just wanted a Republican president although they know that he lies almost nonstop or how many of his voters are eating up the crap he spews. It may be 50/50. In the end we know who will benefit most from a Trump presidency, TRUMP!

deepspace's picture
deepspace 6 years 15 weeks ago

Yes, Kend, you are in a bubble, one with very thick walls, wherein your math only calculates one side of the equation. What, you think you're something special because you're a business owner, cornering market savviness? Well, "Hooray for me." Or is it, "Woe is me." Hard to tell.

Where do you think your profits come from, if employees/customers don't have enough money in their pockets to buy products because of unlivable wages, when most of the profits rise to the top of the greed pyramid? And who do you think pays the taxes, if millionaires and billionaires and mega-corporations weasel out of their fair share -- the taxes for hi-ways and bridges, sewer and water systems, an educated and healthy workforce, government agencies that ensure product safety, clean air, water, and food, the military, the police force, the firefighters, the court system, and all the rest of the infrastructure, of which tax dodgers take full advantage yet for which they don't want to pay?

Taxes are the price of admission to live in a civilized society. Go live in Somalia; I hear their taxes are nearly nonexistent. See if a business model that pays starvation wages and no taxes can generate a profit there.

So that's how you can compare a tax cut (giveaway) for a greedy, unpatriotic corporation to a bailout for patriotic workers who pay taxes and buy products (perhaps even yours), and who are now earning a healthy profit for their owners. If you can't pay livable wages and just taxes, then you have a piss-poor business model and should shut your doors and allow a smarter business owner to profit on your share of the market.

Oh, by the way, Obama was prudent enough to put W. Bush's stratospheric, hidden debt openly on the books and to shoulder the responsibility. Besides, American Treasury bonds -- largely owned by American citizens -- are still the safest and most sought after investment in the world, affirmed by their low interest rates. So there's your so-called "evil" debt, which Democrats absolutely do count, and which Republicans absolutely do not.

Break out of your bubble, Kend, and look up the "two Santa Clauses theory." It's your guys who've consistently run up the debt to such heady heights, starting with your "Saint" Reagan, who tripled it, while he lavished "tax deductions" on millionaires (mostly Republican donors) and raised taxes on the middle class 11 times. Some studies say 13 times, if you count all the double bank shots and angles of the dangle.

Again (I'm serious), why do right-wing trolls bother to post comments on this blog without (obviously) listening to or reading what Thom has to say? If they did, it would engender more fruitful discussions. Thom is the first one to admit that he doesn't always get stuff right, but he sure tries hard to, and he is one helluva step ahead of most political observers out there, on either side of the aisle.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 6 years 15 weeks ago

Dianereynolds: Stop with the bull about "winning"...I think you mean whining, oh well I can't spell either..... just address my comment about Trump's outsourcing of his own jobs, Trump U, charity fraud, and election fraud. These issues all matter, so turn off your Fox propaganda and face the facts. You have no way to defend crooked Donny do you??? Let's face it, dismissing me as a whiner is your easy way out. My biggest fear is how many more may be foxmerized just like you.

Trump like Bush twice will be in office not because he was elected, but because he won with election fraud. I bet you're not screaming Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi, emails, emails, emails, lock her up , lock her up, lock her up, anymore are you? I'm sure you really took those propaganda talking points right to heart.

I'm the last guy on the planet to whine. I'll fight to the bitter end if it's required Diane and there are many just like me.... and many more who I don't even know by name, but we are in touch, and as I already stated, we plan to do all we can to limit the amount of time this Fascist regime remains in power.

And BTW: voting machines have been found tampered with in Wisconsin and that's just the tip of the iceberg....something many of us are already aware of. You won't hear network news mention this, geeez, wonder why????

I'll repeat it one more time without any reservation..Trump has seemingly won the election because of election fraud!!!. plain and simple! The evidence is overwhelming. He's not our president and never will be.

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 6 years 15 weeks ago

1. It's always election fraud unless your guy wins. Fact pure and simple.

2. Trumps point to Clinton and the world in the debate was. "I use the laws and rules to my advantage. If you don't like it, change the laws or rules." Amen brother.

3. Trump is not yet president and he is being attacked by progressives for whatever position he takes. Calm down. If he changes the trade laws he too will have to change his country of manufacture or pay the appropriate tariffs.

4. Accept the fact you lost. It's over, done, dead, period. Trump will be YOUR president. Complaining is one of the progressives great attributes. You are good at it because you have had a lot of practice. You have eight years to regroup. Get at it.

Ou812's picture
Ou812 6 years 15 weeks ago

Hey all you washed up lefties despite all your anger, threats, denial, lies, recounts, name calling and misdirection. Donald J. Trump will become the 46th President of the United States at noon on January 20, 2017.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 6 years 15 weeks ago


1. Your "fact" is not pure and simple. Quite the opposite, it's a direct lie perpetrated by shameless, Republican propagandists and parroted by their gullible blind followers. Statistically, Democratic voter fraud does not exist anywhere at all; Republican election fraud absolutely does -- on a massive scale! If you don't want to remain ignorant, study up on the "Interstate Crosscheck" program, engineered by Kris Kobach, that illegally purges millions of mostly Democrats off the registration rolls. And that's certainly not the only way Republican Secretaries of State have been fraudulently disenfranchising Democrats for many, many election cycles now. Greg Palast, Brad Friedman, and Robert F. Kennedy Jr., among numerous others, are excellent and thorough investigators of the large body of actual facts, not your made-up variety.

2. In context of that debate quote (paraphrased):

"Sniff. believe me; It's simply genius to declare four bankruptcies (okay, maybe six), stiffing bankers, small investors, contractors, employees, taxpayers, and anyone else within sniffing distance. But, hey, I came out on top of all those losers, which is all that matters in the end. Right? Because it's all about me, not you. Try to ignore the fact that I lost more money, which wasn't really mine, than a mere commoner could earn in several lifetimes, during a phenomenal economic expansion in the boom years of (Damn, I hate to say this!) a Clinton presidency, when virtually everyone else was winning, and nobody was as big a LOSER as I was. (Yikes, who could possibly lose by owning Atlantic City casinos in the roaring 90's?!) Ahem, so put me in charge, and I'll fix your economy all right, so fast you won't believe it. Believe me.

"Sniff. Believe me; I was so damn lucky that crooked Hillary and the rest of the adults in Congress could not vote until years after the fact -- thanks to Republican Supreme Court dithering -- to close the fuzzy Republican loophole that allowed me to declare almost a billion dollar loss of OPM (other people's money)! Yet, such sleazy, er, genius finagling then allowed me (I kid you not!) to offset, 'bigly' (big league), my personal earnings, so as not to pay any Federal taxes (to support the troops) for nearly two decades. Damn the little people! See, that's why I'm rich and you're not. Genius, I tells ya, pure genius! Sniff."

3. Oooh, a little truth leaked out there: you admit to Trump's unpatriotic, bald-faced hypocrisy: manufacturing his cheap-ass products in countries with scandalously cheap labor laws and scant pollution regulations, and then hawking them back to us as over-priced trinkets and baubles. Tariffs as a solution to so-called "free" trade is a purely progressive Democratic battle they've been waging desperately against your party (and Corporate Dem sellouts) for at least fifty years to keep jobs in America. I'm glad you're finally on board, but do you really think the Republican Congress is going to let the orange fruitcake puppet get away with it -- let alone his own Cabinet filled with fellow billionaire, Wall Street swamp gators? Puhlease!

4.Right-wing swamp critters ( to the right of Attila the Hun) should know all about whining and complaining since that's all they've ever done for the last eight years about Obama, Hillary, Democrats, and liberals in general. In psychology, they call that projection. The difference is that the sniveling crybabies in the Party of the Rich and Privileged are basing their complaints on endlessly debunked lies. Please look in the mirror while you spew out such nonsense.

Trump may be your President, but he is not mine and never will be. Movements start from the ground up, not the top down. Until this country amends the Constitution to honor the popular vote (go to "National Popular Vote.com") and relegate the ridiculous Electoral College to the dustbin of history, the People should refuse to recognize this clown as their representative. Just like in every other democracy and every other election, it should be: one person, one vote. Some Faux News-brainwashed hillbilly in Aladamnbama should not have his vote count more than any other person, regardless if they happen to live in a city or anywhere else. "Done, dead, period."

And you still haven't adequately addressed 2950-10K's comments "about Trump's outsourcing of his own jobs, Trump U, charity fraud, and election fraud." Because you can't!

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 6 years 15 weeks ago

Dianereynolds: I'm well aware of crooked Donny's justification that he doesn't agree with the same laws he uses to swindle fellow citzens out of multi millions. So his lack of self control has lead to one critical point you're conveniently avoiding ..... Trump does not use laws to gain advantage, he breaks those laws to gain advantage. He's a criminal. He was nailed for a 25 million in a fraud class action lawsuit. Willingness to fork over 25 million is defacto guilt and don't try to gloss over it.

The poor women who was raped at the age of 13 by him got so many death threats she backed out of her lawsuit. In light of all the other sex assault allegations that surfaced, I choose to believe her. Of course you like the media were still focused on Benghazi and emails when all of that surfaced, so no one remembers...I do though!

Trump has 75 pending lawsuits at this very moment. Lawsuits are used to enforce existing laws...for example It's illegal to hire someone and not pay for their services. It's illegal to grab a pussy without the women's permission etc. Wake up Diane...not only have you bought into the same old republican rich guy trickle down swindle, you've been had by a world class con artist. It's now going to be more of the same old destroy the working class crap that has been going on since Ron's voodoo....more of the the biggest lie ever told, even bigger than crooked Donny's lies.

Crooked Donny is not going to end free trade deals, he is not bringing jobs back, and he is not cutting your taxes, he is only reducing taxes on corp america and billionaires....although he doesn't even pay tax. That's called trickle down.

Other than tax cuts for the super rich, the Teapublican Party will not pass any legislation related to the issues I just mentioned...and you can take that to the Goldman Sachs bank...which reminds me...Trump said Hillary wasn't qualified to be president because she received speaking fees from Goldman. But somehow crooked Donny still managed to appoint Steven Mnuchin as his treasury secretary. Yeah right,...."Go Donald" ...wake up Diane!

Legend 6 years 15 weeks ago

The 1% owned mainstream media will not report on how many jobs Obama saved. 800 is a pitance compared. Now who pays the $7 million? The people of Indanna.

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 6 years 15 weeks ago

800 jobs is a lot for a man who hasn't even yet taken office. Kinda pisses you off doesn't it?

Aren't progressives the first to tell us a working person spends his/her money in the community helping further other small business?

You are worried about $7 million? One golf vacation for Obama.

Who is going to pay? Who would pay if 800 unemployed needed relief?

Again, and for the next eight years, the progressive /socialist lefties biggest fear is Trump will be wildly successful.

3 Supreme court justices & 97 Judical appointments.

Go Donald.

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