US needs a jobs program.

Obama had 8 years and got nowhere.

Lets give Trump a chance.

ct

@ all Trumpists:

Meanwhile in the real universe ... It is impossible to have constructive conversations with gullible people whose arguments are predicated on demonstrable falsehoods, cherry-picked statistics, wishful thinking, and intellectually dishonest political ideologies, as if repeating endless loops of programmed lies will somehow convince the historically vast, vast majority of sober-minded people, who did not vote for Trump, do not support him, and never will.

If they're trying to divine the future, thinking any good will come out of a Trump administration, I'd love to play poker with them.

"GOP Plans to Destroy Our Safety Net Will Also Kill Democracy"

..., chances are, that is not all it will kill ....

"Let's give Trump a chance." Would you give a pedophile a chance to babysit your children?

Only in the opposite world of rightwing ideology is a delusional, greedy, bankrupting, pathologically lying, sexual abusing, bigot fit to be president of anything, let alone, president of the United States.

If you don't think that Obama did anything, then you must not have been alive 8 years ago when the County was falling apart at the seams, when we were losing 800,000 jobs a month, when the stock market had lost half it's value, when we were lied into a needless, endless war that to this day drains our economy and resources, when millions were being evicted from their homes, when thousands upon thousands of pensions were literally stolen from the workers that had spent their life earning them. Yeah, I guess we need more of that again?

But what do you expect from a group of people that think a" landslide victory" is losing the popular vote by almost three million votes and only able to claim victory because an antiquated system, the Electoral College, allowed a few corrupt Republican governors to suppress enough votes or otherwise jerry-rig the outcomes. Why do you think they were so adamant about stopping the recounts.

"Think" what am I talking about? Republican voters don't think. They are like pet dogs that for a few strokes and an occasional treat, will eagerly wag their tails and bark out their rightwing talking points. And if anyone tries to threaten the credibility of their masters, they will turn on them like mindless pit bulls.

And by the way. If those jobs are brought back by Trump and his cabinet of billionaire conmen, they will also bring the slave wages they now pay with them.

Let's all run around with our hair on fire before Trump even gets in office.

Surely self promoting scholars constantly preaching and predicting negativity promotes mental health among progressive/socialists that already live in a dark world filled with therapy sessions and tin foil hat conspiracies.

Dear Dianereynolds, Trump has already tipped his hand by showing us his cabinet choices. I'm not stupid. I know who these people are and i can easily research their histories.

Sixteen years ago, George W. Bush gave us a frightening preview of what we can expect for the next four years. That is if you actually believe that this mob of banksters, polluters and conmen will ever permit another meaningful election. After all, they will soon control all branches of government and the supreme court. I'm glad you are so enamored with them. Because, they are here to stay... 'till the bitter end.

Feel free to relax on your Barca lounger with your remote flipping from Fox to Newsmax, taking in all the good positive news that will surely be trumpeted daily. Or feel free to stick your head in the sand and pretend that you are invisible.

Personally, I've profited nicely by betting against Republicans. When Bush was elected, I dumped my equities and bought gold. When Obama was elected, I sold my gold and bought equities. Worked like a charm.

Whenever Republican apologists grind their teeth and spit out what they think is their best argument-ending epithet -- "socialist!" -- they reveal the true core of their misperception of, not only the widely diverse abstract meanings, but how varying degrees of socialism has always been a functioning, concrete reality of every single form of government that has ever existed from the beginning of civilization.

The primary generator of right-wing talking points comes from so-called "scholars" at so-called "think" tanks, such as the Heritage Foundation, the American Enterprise Institute, and the numerous other propaganda machines put together and funded by the billionaire class, led primarily by the predacious Koch brothers. For the consumption of a dumbed-down, over-stimulated, willfully ignorant audience of passive spectators of artificial life (Think Fox "News," hate radio, right-wing blogosphere, et al.), the debate has been reduced to some ridiculous, cartoonish battle that pits pure capitalism against pure socialism.

Purity in anything is a fantasy. The reality is that functioning economies are a blend of both, where roughly ten percent are actual capitalists -- those who make money on money, thereby infusing capital into the system -- and are no more or no less important or worthy as the bottom ninety percent who provide all of the productivity and therefore all of the demand (read jobs).

Historically, societies and economies became hopelessly dysfunctional when the greed-mongers at the top sucked too much wealth out of everyone else. Invariably, this led to massive wealth inequality, depression, rebellion, and war.

Abraham Lincoln, the founder of the Republican Party (My, how far it has strayed!), summed up beautifully what the Framers of our Constitution understood about history and human nature and how they intended to mitigate the insatiable thirst for wealth and power by ruling elites: "... government of the people, by the people, for the people ..."

Socialism is not an abstract concept reserved only for ideological discussion; it is a hard, on-the-ground fact of how every single human society has always been organized into a civilization, based on the collective resources of all the people. There are many degrees of socialism.

Mainstream liberals (Yes, the mainstream is liberal.) are not asking for pure socialism, where the government controls all the means of production and distribution. Neither are they asking for pure capitalism, where the rich own everything and have all the power. Nobody in America wants the government to manufacture cars, TV's, shoes, or any other commercial product that is in the purview of private enterprise.

What they are asking, however, is that the government protect and nourish what our Founders called "the Commons" -- all those things that we collectively own, such as the air, water, infrastructure, public lands, educational systems, our health and general welfare, etc. The commons are the true wealth of a nation and what our Founders absolutely understood as a balanced model society. Private enterprise and the morality of healthy socialism can and should exist together in harmony. Or, as the late Paul Wellstone put it, "Everyone does better when everyone does better!"

Alas, unfettered greed always seeks to upset that delicate balance, for which the Founders spilled their blood. The question becomes who benefits from socialism. Should the sweet fruits of an economy accrue mostly at the top -- as is happening right now in our nation in real time -- while the bitter fruits of runaway capitalism are heaped onto the meager plates of the working poor, which is fast becoming all the rest of us? (A large middle class is, unfortunately, a historic aberration.)

So, is the reinterpretation of our Constitution and the plutocratic model of society by the Republican Party nothing but socialism for the rich and the harsh consequences of unregulated, dog-eat-dog, Darwinian capitalism for the people? It seems so. We have seen this before, far too often; it is nothing new.

And, it is immoral.

@k. allen

"Surely, it would be more entertaining to go out and watch people pee on themselves ... taunt and ridicule those who challenge our views ... now, doesn't that sound like good, healthy fun for everyone ... (!?!)
Preaching and predicting positivity while nurturing negativity only promotes more hypocritical static quo ... on all sides ... not much fun for anyone."

I don't look at it as taunting (although progressives are very good at peeing down their own leg) as much as pointing out the absolute hypocrisy of so many here and especially the likes of Thom Hartmann, Bill Press, Rachel Maddow, etc. They complained for eight solid years that the "Republicans blocked everything Obama attempted to do". Well guess what? Obama never figured out how to deal with the opposition. That is the mark of a leader. Instead we got a petulant child in office. Now that America has selected a different model, the shoe is on the other foot and the mantra being delivered from all those who complained for eight years, plan on doing exactly the same thing. My god, the day after the election I heard stammering and sputtering about "block every move" , "march in the streets", resist, resist, resist. I thought I was listening to a right wing hate group. The negativity and disrespect of Trumps family was disgusting and if ANY individual had even hinted similar comments on Thom's show referencing Obama's children there would have been hell to pay. My god if there was even a negative Hillary thought started from a caller, that individual was over talked and quickly cut off. All the while blaming it on paid callers. Come on, paid callers? Give me a break.

I still laugh out loud at the constant stream of excuses especially the 3 million vote"win" by Hillary. Get real. We all know why there is an Electoral College and who it protects.

When I start to see or hear anything resembling Trump support from one of the talking heads I will moderate my views but I doubt that will be happening anytime in the near future.

So here is our reality. Trump will be president and you have a choice. Run around complaining, whining about Reagan, blame the loss on anything but what it really was, (a horseshit candidate that could not motivate her voter base), or the high road and give him a chance before prematurely announcing that Trump WILL do when in office. And yes, I am referring to all the "he will kill Medicare, Medicaid, cancel social security, kill all babies, stop the moon from circling the earth, etc." Thom should be ashamed of himself for putting out this crap but do I realize he is the doing the exact same thing he accuses Hannity, Limbaugh, etc. of doing.

Infotainment using scare tactics.

Here's a compendium of right-wing spinmeisters: "Democrats should just sit down, shut up, and let our bigoted, lying, fascistic, serial sexual predator [who did not win the election by the people] do whatever he wants to whomever he wants. Trust us. And, we have a wall to sell you, too."

Does everyone see the irony here -- the false equivalency, the brash hypocrisy -- or do some of us still need some more "white-‘splaining?" Okay, gather around children; this is a true story:

First, a powerful faction of unapologetic racists are alive and well in the Republican Party. Then, a black man "from Kenya" dared to climb to the top. A damn Democrat too! Naturally, the mortified party of rich white guys couldn’t handle it, ain't in their DNA.

Thus, rather than go dancing, this clan of extremist Republican legislators held a grim meeting with two of their favorite ideologues, Newt Gingrich and Frank Luntz, in the Caucus Room restaurant on Inaugural Ball night, January 20, 2009. ("When the Tea Party Came to Town" by Robert Draper) In effect, they swore a borderline treasonous blood oath to block absolutely everything this uppity boy might try to accomplish, while cleaning up the horrific mess left after the last Republican binge, with frat-boy Bush. No matter what good he offered the people, they were committed to make the "n----r" a one term President and erase him from the history books of their "Ameerkkka."

For example, before the Affordable Care Act was enacted, according to a 2009 study by Harvard Medical School and Cambridge Health Alliance, nearly 45,000 fellow Americans every year were dying from lack of access to healthcare -- more piles of bodies than "radical Islamic terrorists" could imagine in their wildest dreams! Obama chose this particular plan because it was the preferred Republican Frankenstein, created in the lower laboratory of the Heritage Foundation. How could they possibly object to their own idea? Obviously, he underestimated their depravity.

The double-dealing double-crossers tarred it with his name and diluted it with every possible legislative poison pill and booby trap imaginable, so that it would blow up in his face, which it finally did right before this last election. Meanwhile, in the run-up to the 2012 election, they slammed Obamacare mercilessly for their own original sins. Dammit, the people reelected the black guy from Kenya anyway!

And never forget, these fleas on the body politic also pulled out all stops in 2011 and tried to shut down the government, resulting in the infamous "budget sequestration" of the Kenyan's second term. This meat-axe approach was the dumbest way imaginable to run a complex budget for a nation of 350 million hapless citizens. Again -- Obama’s fault!

Ultimately, the ne'er-do-wells triumphed, exceeding all expectation! They knew that the over-stimulated public doesn’t pay much attention to the deceitful Republican choreography at the second level of government. After eight years on the job, an incumbent party always gets the blame for gridlock. It was the long game. The cons now own all that they broke: the Executive, the Legislative, and the Judiciary (and the corporate media).

"So, all you loser 'Dumbocrats,' can you please just play nice now, try to ignore our smelly soiled underwear, and let us get on with the business of destroying the last remnants of democracy in America? It'll all be good. No, really!"

Gloat while you still can. I do agree with you, though, that it will be, to say the least, interesting times -- but for only four years, not eight... ;-)

Happy New Year!

Here is a new year wish from a lefty:
A fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2017, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make the America great, (not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country or is the only "America" in the western hemisphere,) and without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith, or sexual preference of the wishee.

(By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms. This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferrable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher.

This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to
replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.)

A new year wish from the rest of us:

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!

In July of last year, discussing SCOTUS's 5/4 conservative vote on Citizens United, President Jimmy Carter told me: "It violates the essence of what made America a great

heph it is is the peace. Thom brings it up all the time

Hooray for bigots!

... sooo Amerikkkan!

And, God forbid, when their arteries finally clog up, their hearts explode, their brains suffer strokes, or their overweight bodies get cancer, I sure hope they still have access to affordable healthcare and don't fall victim to what Rep. Alan Grayson (D. Florida) once described on the House floor as the Republican two-part healthcare plan:

#1. Don't get sick.

#2. If you do get sick, die quickly.

Mmm ... maybe that's what their junk-food king in chief had in mind with his patronizing slogan, "Make America Great Again."

Laissez-faire natural selection ... it might just work.

Hah! Yeah, the flying monkeys really outdid themselves with this orange orangutan human imposter.

Notice that they no longer brag on their last knuckle-dragger -- the Bush half-man/half-ape war criminal who blew up the Middle East and tanked the world economy. All their boisterous swaggering sure turned quickly into deafening silence and crickets in the night, once they realized their "ex" alcoholic, cocaine-addled "decider" didn't really have much of a brain left with which to decide.

And Trump the pussy-grabber, who doesn't even know how to open a door on a bus, makes Bush look like a Mensa member. But trust him; it'll be so great!

At least Alec Baldwin will be gainfully employed on SNL.

Now you really can't fault us for resorting to name-calling. After all, facts don't seem to work and based on what we've seen from right-wingers that post on this site and the fact that it worked so well for Trump, we just assumed that this was your preferred method of communication.

Again, conservatives creating their own definitions to words, I think you had better look up the definition of the word "Hypocrisy."

And if those justices are consistent with Trump's morals, we can look forward to Pussy Grabbing as soon being legal as well as peeping in on naked teenage girls.

Yes, it will truly be Christmas in hell. And to all a good blight!

Deepspace:

I find it amazing that us "knuckle draggers" are always able to beat you ever so smart, lefties. And all we have to do to win is follow the law.

All the if's you have in your essay reminds me of the old saying, "If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle". Cheers!! Only 18 more days left.:).....

BTW, I cannot understand all the anger at Trump. It was Hillary and Democrats who destroyed Bernie, not Trump. He just took advantage of Democratic ineptitude.......

Knuckle Draggers Rule :))

@#38:

Friendly advice: If you feel the need to respond to what somebody writes, work on your reading comprehension skills to better absorb the essential points, so that you don't wander off into irrelevancy.

To your deflecting points:

The "if's" are what change history; otherwise, there never would have been an American Revolution against British tyranny. The unfair and immoral laws that were implemented and then manipulated by self-serving power/greed mongers need to be changed to allow fair and transparent elections, if we still want to be considered a respected democratic republic and not some third-world hybrid plutocracy.

It is not so much simple "anger" at Trump as it is total disgust and moral outrage at all that he represents, which are legitimate, viable emotions that can spur corrective action.

So, are you now a Bernie supporter? If not, then your words are disingenuous and hypocritical. He, and the points he still makes, rather loudly, are not "destroyed," and remain true as ever.

OK Ou812, Nobody said that opposing recounts was illegal. Nobody said that not releasing tax returns was illegal. Nor would anybody say that opposing the gathering of evidence in any crime is illegal. However, if you haven't committed any crimes or done anything illegal. What do you have to hide? Probably something illegal. At least that's what law enforcement officers would tell you.

Brandon Hall, a Republican, was indicted on several counts of Election Fraud. Republicans are also the most likely to commit Voter Fraud. Just google it.

Sticks and stones may never hurt you , but facts obviously will. So will Donald Trump. Just give him time. Just ask those that attended Trump University. They too thought that Donald Trump would be the answer to all their dreams.

But as the old saying goes: "It's your funeral." I'm just can't understand why you are so smug and gleeful about driving off the cliff. Maybe it's the guilt from abetting the last Republican president that was responsible for the murder of 1000s of American Troops and maiming of tens of thousands of other American Troops, al least according to Vince Bugliosi, the man that prosecuted Manson. Or maybe it's the guilt of abetting Bush, the president that served while hundreds of thousands were evicted from their homes during the last Republican administration mortgage crisis and the 800,000 a month that were losing there jobs and the tens of thousands of factories that relocated out of the country during the last Republican administration.

I guess if I were bearing that cross, I would probably double down on my ideology, hoping that history would somehow prove the facts wrong. Or maybe I would go out and hire a snake oil salesman to over see the fate of my children and grand children.

(Dianereynolds):
"... pointing out the absolute hypocrisy of so many here ... it has become entertaining listening to the same old excuses and declaring you will do what you preached against Republicans doing for the last eight years."

"How would you expect me to respond?"

"Obama never figured out how to deal with the opposition. That is the mark of a leader."

Well, if you can do better, maybe you can set the pace and show us the way. You don't exactly come across as a follower. So far, I don't see anything other than more of the same under another name.

I'm amazed at how individual people are targeted with blame for dynamics that are generated through complex webs of interaction between many different people over time ... not to mention, I'm not convinced anyone really knows what anyone else is facing - especially those who are called to govern.

I do feel it might be nigh unto impossible to work in these industries without being caught up in conflicts between your own feelings/beliefs and those required to keep the job ... or starting out advocating for one issue, only to find the tables turning so you wind up opposing what you really support, and supporting what you oppose.

I say, be true to what is true for you, and carry on.

We all have a part to play in this process, or we would not be here.

I can see how Trump would want to be known as the best president America ever had ... to be heroic, in the most exceptional sense of the word ... I'm not sure how that would play out, or how it would work for the people of America ... or the world at large ... give it a chance ...?

..., uhm, ... do I have a choice ...?

I would love to see positive outcomes. I doubt that looks the same to different interest groups ... if you challenge his policies, and Trump perceives you as opposing him, how will he deal with the obstacle?

Nuke it?

Here's the good news:

Nukes generate more toxic waste. They, along with fossil fuels, will be yesterday's news in the coming era of enlightenment. We are about to find out what kind of government in this country - if any - will prevail.

... maybe conflict and resistance generate stress and tension that compel movement in the political sphere ... a deeply ingrained part of the process ... keeps the wheels turning ... clearly, some people are moved to reach beyond conflict to seek consensus ... others, not.

Word is, it all comes out in the wash.

Deepspace:

Since you want to tell me so much about me, let me tell you about me, I think I know me better then you know me.:)

I don't consider myself a conservative, nor do I consider myself a lefty. I don't like labels, they tend to pigeonhole people.

I find politics boring, but I do enjoy 'tweaking' those who take it so seriously.:)

I really don't care who is president. I'm too low on the totem pole for it too effect me. I'm actually a quite successful person, and I'm successful because of me, not because of who was president.

I don't listen to talk Radio. The only show on the radio I listen to other than music is 'Imus in the morning'. I like his irreverent personality, it's a lot like mine.

The only news I watch is local news. And I only watch that on an NBC affiliate out of Hagerstown MD. This station is so small, they don't carry national news.

My not watching news is my choice. I'm in the Baltimore/Washington market, so plenty is available.

They only newspaper I read is the Carroll County Times....mostly local.

I read lots of books, and spend lots of time at the gym. I'm a physical fitness enthusiast.

I'm a retired Sales/Marketing guy, who after retirement, went back to school to become a high school teacher. Now I'm pretty much retired from teaching to.

One last thing, I know how to get things done. I'm practical, not a theoretician.

Like me or not, I don't care.

Ou812, So you're to low on the totem pole to be affected by whose president. Then perhaps you never drove on a highway ,or flew in a plane, or signed a contract bound by law, or never planned to collect a pension or Medicare or Social Security, or took a drink out of tap water from a public utility, or took a breath of air in this country, or benefitted from a national defense, or received any public education. or took out a mortgage, or spent government issued money, or ever ate food inspected by the government, or bought products that crossed into our borders from a foreign country, or listened to a radio or television or had bank accounts insured by the government.

All of these things and virtually thousands of other things are affected by who is president. It is virtually impossible to not be effected by who is president.

But with Trump...all bets are off. The wolves are guarding the hen house and they control every branch of the government, military and law enforcement. You better hope they don't decide they want your property or savings or start a nuclear confrontation. Then you might suddenly care a lot.

But it doesn't surprise me that you don't care about the rest of us. Apparently, you think that you have yours, and you did the impossible of creating your whole world by yourself.

Are any of you forced to respond to those that have an opposite view from yours?