The No BS Guide To The Upcoming Jill Stein Recount
By Thom Hartmann A...
It's almost like they have something to hide.
With one Jill Stein-led recount effort already underway in Wisconsin and additional recounts pending in Michigan and Pennsylvania, supporters of Donald Trump are now taking legal action to stop what they say is a baseless attempt to smear their candidate.
In Pennsylvania, Trump himself has joined up with the local Republican Party to block Jill Stein's request for a recount.
In Wisconsin, Trump Super PACS are doing the dirty work and have asked a federal judge to stop what they say is a violation of due process rights.
Across the border in Michigan, meanwhile, Republican Attorney General Bill Scuette asked the State Supreme Court to cancel an effort he and his office are calling a "frivolous request for a recount by an aggrieved party to silence all Michigan votes for president."
So - IS Jill Stein's push for a recount just a useless exercise in self-promotion?
Or is there actually a chance it could expose something big?
Comments
#2
When asking Trump is he loses the election , "If Al Gore or George Bush had agreed three weeks before the election and waived their right to a challenge or a re-count, there would be no Supreme Court case,” Trump argued in Ohio. “In effect, I’m being asked to waive centuries of legal precedent designed to protect the voters."
Sounds like a true patriot!
#4
I called President Obama's comment line today. I mentioned that the media is hampering Jill Stein's efforts. I noted that Greg Palast has found discrepancies in the exit vote and the actual vote in each of these states. I suggest that the president may need to get the FBI to investigate the matter. Our vote should be consider sacred. It is our one voice where we can make a difference.
#5
Hi Thom,
Between the two options that you presented, I'd choose the second, that there MAY BE something there. However, personally, I believe that there is a 3rd option: Jill Stein is exercising her right to a recount. Regardless if she wants to promote herself or if she uncovers something, I believe she is exercising her right to a recount. As such, I don't see why people are speculating on her intentions for pursuing the recounts. If recounts became a standard part of our electoral process, I'd be happy with that. Any measure used to fortify the legitemacy of our electoral process is good so long as it's not oppressive, and there's nothing oppressive about recounting votes.
I don't see why the recount is such a big issue. I really don't.
#6
I'm hoping the White House will hurry up and declassify the documents as requested by Senator Ron Wyden and several other senators. It could expose a connection between Russia and Trump in the election tampering charges revealed in the documents.
And do it before December 19th, at least that's the last chance to not elect a Traitor In Chief. And if there's no evidence, well, at least we got our Groper and Complainer In Chief.
#7
In a real democracy all leaders should want to demonstrate that our voting system is reliable. One side claims voter fraud, the other side claims election fraud. In this day and age of propaganda and public manipulation, let's take the steps to demonstrate that our system works or it doesn't.
#8
Pennsylvania still uses the Sequoia AVC Advantage voting machine.... takes only minutes to hack at the precinct level. The vote tally is easily changed without any evidence of tampering.
Why aren't our democratic representatives raising holy hell about the interstate cross check fraud???
So after putting up with endless dimwitted/ mind-numbing tales about Benghazi and no story emails, thanks Comey, the democrats are just going to lie down and play dead regarding a very real scandal that is about to place the most dangerous man on the planet in charge of the largest military in history. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see megalomaniac plus powerful military equals global catastrophe? Not to mention that Trump has surrounded himself with some of the most unstable cabinet picks he could find. I still can't believe Wall Street isn't reacting. Trump says FU to China..what could possibly go wrong there? No reason to be nervous about your stocks..LMAO. The stupid pills are flying off the shelves.
And why is there suddenly zero regard for exit polls, not to mention the pre-election polls? Holy Crap!
#9
We are seeing the first indications of a totalitarian mentality. Control and use the law to subvert democratic process, news blackout and loyal henchment, and above all, there are only fearful opposition and/or brainwashed apathy
#10
Keep counting
#11
Across the nation, millions of potential Democratic voters evidently were purged unknowingly and unjustifiably from the registration rolls by craven Republican Secretaries of State and their operatives, and, no doubt, many of those affected were in these three key states. The hapless voters should have been handed provisional ballots. So I wonder if their placebo votes will be included in the recount effort, since they would seem to have a much bigger impact than whatever increased margins can be teased out of the faulty machines.
Perhaps the "Interstate Crosscheck" fraud, along with other types of fraud, will be exposed in due course while conducting the recount; however, except for progressive alternative media, which can't seem to break the sound barrier, no one is talking about it. Again, reality and truth are flying under the radar...
#12
It is just stunning to me how many people in high office have jumped up to block the Stein recount. This process is part of the democratic process. Recounts have been going on for years. There were complaints of "irregularities" and so the independent, non-partisan group, I think it's called something like the Elections Integrity Committee, has accepted the task of looking into the complaints, not to change the outcome of the election but to button any loopholes that might have allowed vote-flipping, to ensure that we will have clean, fair, and honest elections going forward. But, my gosh! The crazy Right constituency has been whipped up to oppose this together with just about everyone in high office condeming this process. What? People don't want clean, fair, and honest elections? I have to question whether the cadre of people posting against this process are paid for their efforts in a very orchestrated way.
At first the Right tried to claim that it was an abuse of taxpayer money, until it was pointed out that it is not being funded by the federal government. Then they tried to claim that Hillary or George Soros was paying for it. Then they said that Stein is a front for Clinton in this (I can't imagine two women more politically opposite than Clinton and Stein, but the public is pushing this idea hard.) Such that, when I posted on ABC's site, trying to introduce some facts and sanity into their cyclonic spin, ABC blocked me from responding to any of what can only be described as an avalanche of Right-wing protest in a huge shout-down. Because I haven't been allowed to post any rebuttles, it makes me look like I have accepted their greater wisdom and have retreated from the field. This country has become nothing but a vast web of lies and deceit. It's truly discouraging when so many people are so willing to not seek the truth and be reasonable; this is a working model of true evil.
#13
There is an excellent article on Jill Stein's official campaign FB page co-authored by Bob Fitrakis - one of her election integrity advisors. It was written November 28th and should be on her FB timeline.
https://www.facebook.com/drjillstein/posts/1380664685307051
In the article - 7 senate races went to the GOP that should have gone to democrats in 2014 (3) and 2016 (4).
#14
BlackKnight: Thanks for the link! Lots of very good info.
It compliments: http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/
#15
ErinRose: Very well put. All excellent points!
I'm very discouraged by the whole stinking mess also. I've spent years hanging around way too many right-wing blog sites trying to understand the mentality and have posted on numerous corporate media sites, as well, many with similar results as you have expressed. Hate to say it, but I finally gave it all up as a pointless exercise in futility; most of these people simply do not listen to or care about anything they perceive as having even the slightest scent of that evil "liberalism," like it's some kind of contagion.
I eschew labels -- even though they are an unavoidable part of political discourse -- but can't help it that the simple truth of something sounds liberal to some people, while the outright lie sounds conservative. I'm sure there are many paid trolls lurking out there but suspect most are just true-blue zealots, so convinced of their own righteousness that they cannot entertain, intellectually or emotionally, anything that doesn't fit into their well-worn, comfortable pattern of thought.
It really is evil ... and frightening, especially in the most powerful country on the planet, with so much destructive technology at the fingertips of the worst scary clown of them all.
#16
@#3:
Well, that was a yuge waste of precious time - just about the dumbest, most shallow piece of crap I've seen in a long time. No wonder wingnuts are so, well, dumb and shallow.
#17
This is a 3rd world country.
#18
It's much better if ALL the citizens of the USA elect our president. Rather then only the citizens of New York and California. Keep the Electoral College.
#19
@#18: That's the lame, go-to argument, to which robotic Republicans always revert. Upon further examination, however, it completely falls apart. To find out how and why (If you can somehow stomach it), please peruse these ("evil liberal") links, also posted in the above threads:
https://www.facebook.com/drjillstein/posts/1380664685307051
http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/
Briefly, the Republican's disingenuous argument is an illogical, pretzel-twisted interpretation of what a democracy should mean at the most fundamental level, which is our individual vote -- basically a severely limited, geographical-based election process that awards more voting power to a minority of mostly white, rural, radical christianists who seek to impose their fringe ideology on the vast majority of more pragmatic, realistic voters, who are just as religious in their own way. Our Founders clearly intended that no religion or ideology should have preference over any other.
Think about it; in a true democracy, why the hell should it matter if a person happens to live in a city, a coastal area, or Mudville Jesusland? This country belongs to everyone, not just the few. One-person/one-vote, period, and let the majority will of the people speak. If you don't like it, go start a revolution and fight your religious wars in La La Land somewhere else. I would suggest the Middle East, where the concept of democracy is equally strange.
The above links will explain the history quite accurately and plainly why the Founders felt they had to seek a compromise with Southern states to back the new Federal Constitution of 1789, as opposed to the original Articles of Confederation -- a state-based system thoroughly corrupted by contemporaneous big-money interests that played the fractured states off one another to such a degree that it threatened the very survival of our brand new, experimental democracy.
Furthermore, a large factor of racism was involved in this grossly imperfect arrangement, in that the South was awarded more heft in the Electoral College by counting the large population of slaves as "three-fifths of a person," even though they couldn't vote. Read the actual history of the Electoral College, not the bastardized Republican construction. It's complicated with other, perhaps more noble reasons; nonetheless, the Founders never meant the Constitution to be a static, sacrosanct document like the Bible, where it couldn't be adjusted to match modernity -- as long as it did not fundamentally alter the key founding principles, encapsulated and enshrined with the concept that all power is derived from the People first and foremost -- all people! Of course it's not yet a perfect Union; it's still an ongoing experiment.
As an aside, the inner, egocentric Republican reasoning behind the Electoral College, which historically favors their side, is very similar to why they always refer to our system of government as a republic rather than a democracy. See, the former sounds like "Republican," and the latter sounds too much like "DemocRAT" (emphasis on "rat"). In truth, our system is codified as a constitutionally-limited, two-party, representative, democratic republic.
Of course that still does include, unfortunately, the Electoral College. We definitely need to change this horse-and-buggy anachronism to match our modern world of mass transportation and mass communication, where geographical and ideological (think net neutrality) boundaries are largely inconsequential. Virtually all other elections (and all other democracies) are one-person, one-vote, fifty-one percent majority. Why should the Presidential election be any different? (The Senate filibuster is also an undemocratic anachronism that should be done away with, even though it's the last, sad vestige of power the Democrats can cling to.)
I wonder if Republicans would feel differently if 30-some College Electors changed their votes because they were so disgusted by such an obviously unqualified candidate? Of course this won't happen, since they are as polarized as everyone else, but it is very much a big part of their constitutional, and morally conscience, right to do so -- in spite of any restrictions the individual states impose upon them not to do so.
#20
DeepSpace:
It's taken you 8 paragraphs of lies, name calling, racisim, and misdirection to attempt to change what I said in two sentences. (Even the majority of words written doesn't win.) Your groupthink mentality still hasn't answered the question of how do the folks who live in less populated states have their voices heard.
Get busy and change the system if you don't like it. Good Luck
#21
Sorry if I'm not as good at shallow, bumber-sticker sloganeering as you are.
They have their voices heard just like anyone else who votes. Why should a hillbilly's vote count more than a city-slicker's? Is their geographical location, culture, and ideology somehow more superior, more godly? You may not agree with actual representative democracy, but that IS the system. And we are trying to change it to become a more perfect Union, as our Founders intended.
But I already asked that basic question and tried to flesh it out. Whether it's explained in one paragraph or eight makes no difference, because you obviously are not interested in factual reality, which you only deride with lies and insults, and then whine when somebody insults your own so-called "truth." That is classical projection.
Please do your homework and actually study what you apparently just skim over and then attempt to re-interpret.
#22
What are you talking about? Where have I whined, lied, or insulted you. You are so deep in denial you can't except that Donald Trump will be President. One other suggestion calling people names is not a way to get them on your side. You need a lot of us to amend the Constitution, we don't need you to leave it as it is. You are not going to amend the Constitution without those Hillibillies you dismiss. Remember 2/3 of both houses of Congress and ratification by 3/4 of the States is required to remove the Electoral College.
#23
Heehah... "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
What, you want eight more too-long paragraphs on when you have repeated easily verifiable lies and misrepresentations of other people's comments, with which you disagree, in an insulting manner throughout your numerous snide posts and then whined when someone dared to call you out? Have you no self-awareness? Okay, I will comply, but even I grow weary of typing into the wind.
When time permits, I do try to read and understand everyone's posts, including yours. However, since you asked, I will address your subtle form of whining/lying/insulting, but only in your last response, as just one example.
First, please allow me to explain that I have no ego to defend while engaged in political discourse and don't take anything personal; therefore, nothing anyone says ever "hurts." Quite the contrary, I thoroughly enjoy the battle and love to punch back at anyone willing to poke their head out of their foxhole. I suspect you do too. Politics is war, one of ideas but war nonetheless. If someone lobs a grenade, I lob one right back. Such is life in the trenches.
So, yes, I fully admit that I insult those (primarily Republicans) who, in my humble opinion, earn and deserve it. Nothing personal; you are the enemy. It wasn't always this way. If you look back at decades of the ubiquitous right-wing smear campaigns on hate radio, Fox so-called news, and the internet, you must admit that Republicans have made Democrats their mortal enemy in every way possible, not the other way around. Please do not deny the obvious. Democrats are infamous for Namby Pamby compromises. Remember? And where did that ever get us? No more; it's time to fight back. Hard!
Back to your last post: "deep in denial" is a subjective personal attack. I never said that I don't "except (sic) that Donald Trump will be President" (just not my President). Why would I ever want my enemy "on my side?" "You need us, but we don't need you" is a transparent passive-aggressive attack. I'm a realist and never said or expect to amend the Constitution (in this generation anyway) -- because of the high hurdle that you accurately described and the hopeless Republican intransigence that you failed to mention -- but only meant that it should be part of a larger battle for a more perfect union ... someday over the rainbow. I also never dismissed "those Hillibillies" (sic), but only pointed out that their vote should not count for more than a city-slicker's vote in a true democracy. As your final, interactive lesson, you may pick out all the whines, lies and insults not so cleverly disguised in your post.
Whoops, I just committed another one of my own insulting, passive-aggressive attacks. So, how does it feel when your own grenades get lobbed back atcha? At least I will never intentionally lie or whine. Call it constructive criticism. Enjoy!
This last sentence makes it eight paragraphs...
#24
Pucker up Deepspace. You have a lot of asses to kiss :)).
#25
Ew, no thanks, darling; that's your department! But with the pathological liar, clinical narcissist, megalomaniacal authoritarian, pussy-grabbing sexual pervert that you are enabling, the more proper metaphor would be for his throngs of fools to bend over, because here it comes. He's in the process of breaking nearly all of the campaign promises that spewed forth from his creepy, blow-fish lips. :-o
#26
I Deepspace :
I give up. You are too emotionally traumatized to have any sort of intelligent conversation. Maybe after the denial and shock of loss sinks in I'll try again. Goodbye
#27
Heehaw ... "Intelligent" seems a bit of a reach to describe your one-sided, canned Republican talking points/lies/whines/insults.
Sniff, I'll miss you though. By the looks of your avatar, I hope you enjoyed riding this horse. Cheerio...
#28
It's just possible that anyone who hangs their A$$ out there to be Ki$$ed might be more likely to have it kicked - or even bitten and infected with 'god knows what' ... unless, if you are in line to kiss up, I can only say, by the grace of creation I am alive ... it is not by Ki$$ING A$$ ... you do not have to kiss anybody's anything without your consent ... your self worth is your own wet clay.
I do not know any respect oriented person of true worth who wants their ass kissed, anyway. So, if that is your view of this chapter in our growth, I only can say,
... truth and love are the medicines that will heal our broken soul ...
If we can cultivate those grounds between us - not one without the other - we will heal ...and those who do, will.
" ... how do the folks who live in less populated states have their voices heard?"
That is a good question - not just people in less populated states, but also, people everywhere who have just cause, with no recourse ... in my world, that leads to prayer ... or meditation, or any practice that calms the mind, quiets the heart, allows us to embrace truth in our lives and carry on - and that does vary so widely, at least, in my world, people have to define themselves ....
Back to the question at hand, it seems like communication and interaction are key ... whether through family/friends ( if so blessed ), independent networking - so many ways people coalesce at the community level ... not all in agreement, or kind, just and true - as, no doubt, we already know....
#29
Thank you. Your words are very inspiring! I fall short in touching that inner light so many times in so many ways. it's heartening to know people like you are there to remind us of the important thing in life.
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Nostradamus calls Trump the Trumpeter and forked nose one. Hillary is the Masculine woman and Blond.
The Trumpeter wins a rigged election. The masculine one bothered by the unsigned letters. He will be chased out by the blond.