Is There ANY “Green Hope” w/The Trump administration?
Yesterday President Obama added to his environmental legacy by banning offshore drilling in the US Arctic and along the East Coast.
The move, which will protect marine wildlife and stop oil spills, is significant in large part because it's effectively permanent.
An obscure 1953 law called the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act gives the president the power to permanently protect wide swathes of federal land from oil production, and - as the Washington Post reports - "withdrawals under Section 12-A of the 1953 act... cannot be undone by an incoming president." Unfortunately - this is probably the last piece of good news environmentalists will get for a while.
That's because the incoming Trump administration is shaping up to be the biggest disaster for the environment in a generation - maybe even ever.
Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt - a recipient of Big Oil campaign donations and opponent of president Obama's clean power plan - is set to serve as head of the EPA.
Exxon Mobil CEO Rex Tillerson meanwhile is on track to be the next Secretary of State, and former Texas Governor and current Dakota Access Pipeline board member Rick Perry will in all likelihood serve as Secretary of Energy.
Oh yeah, and as if that wasn't bad enough, Montana Congressman Ryan Zinke - the guy who Trump wants in charge of the Interior Department and thus our national parks and fossil fuel reserves - thinks climate change is still up for debate.
If what Elizabeth Warren says is true and personnel really is policy, the Donald J Trump administration is going to turn America into an appendage of the fossil fuel industry and the petro-billionaires who fund the GOP.
But what if Donald Trump surprises us all - defies expectations - and actually stands up for the climate?
Suggest using judo against Trump actions on global warming.
Do not waste time and money fighting his policies.
Rather focus on showing how ugly and unhealthy life over the
next 4 years is changing with his fracking, coal mining, and oil drilling
Aim for dramatic images to use in the next presidential election..
IF people can not see it, they could care less.
The question was, what if Trump "stands up for the Climate ". The answer to that is wonderful. My expectation of that is slim.
I question Obama's motives. After all, he was the President who just recently OK'd arctic drilling. I remember that because I was one of the signers on many of the petitions that circulated to stop it. Is he actually listening to us, or, has Big Oil simply realized after the last election that they don't need arctic or east coastal access any more because now they have a President who will green light fracking and pipelines anywhere they want, and the reserves of frackable oil in the continental US is the greatest in the entire world? Time will tell; but, at this time I take Obama's gesture with a light hearted grain of salt.
The patients are now running the asylum. Expect the crazy. On all fronts. Especially pollution and war and greed and...
(jussmartenuf - #3)
"The question was, what if Trump "stands up for the Climate ". The answer to that is wonderful. My expectation of that is slim."
It could happen. Did you see Thom's interview with Terry Tamminen on The Big Picture - 12/21/16?
I can think of so many scenarios playing out ... I don't want to tilt the scales with uncertain projections ... I do think a positive, open attitude will help - caustic disrespect, not ... I see in Trump a guy who wants to win, no matter what. If he wins big enough, maybe everybody gets to win ... if he loses ... nobody wins, anyway ... what a conundrum.
At least the stakes are high ... and we can place our bets up until the last nano-second ... someone will be making some real money off of this mess!!
Apparently, that is the most important thing.
Interesting how global warming was not even mentioned in the election. The only way you can get rid of fossil fuels is to quit using them.
We are DOOMED!
Ivanka Trump appears to be in support of the reality of climate change. I wouldn't discount a woman's power of persuasion in this issue. Especially father daughter. She won't change his mind, but she might be able to temper his bad decisions.
Why on Earth would Trump "actually stand up for the climate?". There's nothing in his sorry history to indicate he would do such a thing. The "moy" (man-boy as some Grandother Elders have tagged him) has experienced a life-long alienation from the planet. The Earth seems to be just a background shot for his ongoing selfie. Out here in the real world we are girding for the worst.......and entrenched resistance. Onward!
Appointing Rick Parry to head the DOE. The man that during a debate could not remember the name of the DOE. The third department of Government that he was pounding his chest about shutting down. Is Trumps way of rubbing Environmentalists face in it. It was intentional.
I don't think Trump is really interested in being president, he just wanted to be president. As for him protecting the environment, I don't think so. He would have to go up against his campaign donors and I don't think he's got the stoic fortitude to do it. I've listened to his speeches and he is fully aware of the issues and said all the correct things to get himself elected, but he is a Right-wing millionaire who is only interested in doing business and that means sucker punching working people to get what they have. We, the People are only a commodity to him as are all other things. I think this country is going to know the biggest looting, pillage, and every abuse known to mankind because he is going to let loose these appointees of his and then go golfing. I suspect he will spend more time in NY than in DC. I think the next generation is going to inherit the mess of a lifetime. I wish it weren't so, but as he has put the various parts of the puzzle in place, this is the only picture that keeps emerging.
Thanks for inviting participation although I know I am the chicken in the hen house and "you" are the fox.
Here's a nice chunk of thigh meat for you and some insight to many of the Christian minds regarding climate change.
1. They feel they have a sacred responsibility to care for people and the environment (people more than the environment although they are obviously linked).
2. They are convinced that their God is in control, He has a plan for this world and its people that results in ultimate good.
3. Because of 1 and 2 above they look to find a balance that favors trusting God while still keeping their responsiblity to the world.
Sadly, many people who disagree with their beliefs attack them as stupid, foolish, crazy, hateful or uncaring and, since we are all human, many Christians act out in regrettable ways just like anyone else who is attacked in this manner.
A fitting Christian thought to fit this mindset is "Seek the Kingdom of God above all else, and live righteously, and he will give you everything you need. So don't worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring its own worries. Today's trouble is enough for today."
As a Christian I don't disagree with the current information on climate change, I disagree that it is a foregone conclusion that demands my attention today with the degree of priority many want to give the issue. Most credible sources provide several different potential outcomes based on our behavior; and only the worst has much significance until after one hundred years. I can't recall any of those sources giving serious consideration for advancements in technology, natural events like volcano eruptions, sun storms, earthquakes, etc, or the historical record that would support us taking an action today to control the environment that would really be relavent one, two or three hundred years from now.
So, I am okay with and, to some measure, grateful for the environmental concerns, they just don't overcome my trust that God is going to care for me or the more important mission of loving and caring for people TODAY.
#Wisdom Please: They don't call it "blind faith" for nothing. And God instructed you to take care of the planet, animals, as well as (greed driven) people. You say you take care of people. Is all of the drone bombing and war around the globe an example of your stewardship? I think the lot of you so-called "Christians" are a pack of self-aggrandizing ignoramuses that wouldn't know common sense if it walked up and handed you a business card. The horror of your tomfoolery is that you are dragging all the rest of us down your Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole. You always seem to think you have a right to invade the space of others and take what is not yours to take in the first place. If Jesus were here now, he would shun you all. As far as I'm concerned, you are EVIL incarnate, no matter what you call yourselves. "By my works ye shall know me," and your works are horrifying.
#Willie W: Would that it be so. Your lips to god's ear. But even if Ivanka is able to talk to The Donald, will his appointees listen?
Sooo... your god's mysterious plan is basically to ignore the "most credible sources," which are all of the world's top climate scientists -- after the charlatans are excluded -- and hope for the best on the physical plane while praying for a better afterlife?
Each scientist may have his or her own individual assessments, according to their specific area of expertise, in regards to ancillary influences, predictive algorithms, tipping-point timelines, wishful futuristic technological solutions, human behavior musings, and other such auxiliary considerations. Nevertheless, all of them are in full agreement that if humankind does not cease burning fossil fuels, almost immediately, we will pass the tipping point relatively soon and face a very real possibility of Earth's sixth mass extinction event. One hundred years is a blink of an eye in geological terms. Some are convinced that it has already begun, with over forty percent of land mammals and sea life even now dying off, never to return.
Even when the disingenuous "percentage-of-scientists" argument is used to deflect the primary issue, one can safely state that ninety-seven percent, or so, of actual climate scientists (not including unrelated diciplines) absolutely concur that anthropogenic climate disruption is by far the number one, most dire catastrophe facing all life on Earth. The other three percent are paid shills for the fossil fuel industry or are otherwise receiving benefits enhancing their careers, such as tenure at industry-subsidized universities, membership in some so-called "think tank," selling the always-lucrative heretical books to the gullible, etc., etc.
Therefore, lay people who are not climate scientists must look long and hard into the mirror of self reflection and ask this highly illogical question of themselves, "Why would I believe three percent and not ninety-seven percent?" Sorry, that just does not compute, nor will it ever, no matter what word-salad counter argument is employed.
The debate is over. Your "one hundred years, don't worry about tomorrow" contention is nothing more than utter naivety -- a lazy excuse for inaction and procrastination that is only proffered to make one feel comfortable by avoiding the hard choices and sacrifices required. This is not just about you, your feelings, thoughts, and belief systems; frankly, the planet and the science of climate facts don't care. The physical laws of nature will play out inexorably, independent of your opinion, and will affect us all.
So, if your particular happy-face deity has some kind of mystical "plan" to alter our self-destructive behavior and preserve our ability to live on the physical plane, he/she/it had better better start implementing it ... like right frigging now!
Okay Deepspace, nice essay, but let's see the plan! Most everyone who writes here portrays a "sky is falling" scenario in regards to climate change, but no one has a plan how to avoid it. You mentioned we must stop using fossil fuels immediately. If we stopped tomorrow, next year this time most of us would be gone. Without fossil fuels, most of the electricity would disappear. Without electricity we would have no heating, cooling, lights, phones, computers or anything using batteries. Without fuel, for tractors, trucks, automobiles, and all the equipment necessary to grow, harvest, store, deliver and procure food our food supply would disappear in a short time. Without fuel for automobiles, no one would be able to commute to employment or school. companies would close, schools would close, hospitals would close. Nothing that depends on fossil fuel (which is just about everything) would be open. Chaos would reign. Overnight, we would return to the dark ages. A few survivalists might make it, but the majority of us would no longer exist.
So I would love to see your plan to eliminate fossil fuels, otherwise, it's business as usual.
(Evidently, I hit the edit button and moved my previous post out of order just after you posted. Thanks for correcting it.)
What, you're asking a simple horse to solve humankind's Gordian knot of hopelessly complex behavioral problems in one fell swoop with yet another long essay? I'm flattered. Ah, were it so easy!
Sorry, since this ain't a fast-food joint to serve at your instant pleasure, I would strongly suggest that you put aside preconceived notions and peruse the (oh so hated by climate deniers) I.P.C.C. website, which is chockfull of facts and links to every possible related concern, including many viable solutions that serious-minded people have put forward. Arduous solutions will certainly not happen overnight.
Now don't be lazy and remain ignorant! Actually begin your own personal research program, using empirical, scientifically provable facts that are readily available in the wide, wide, world outside the tiny bubble of right-wing misinformation and outright lies. It is never easy to dispel one's own ignorance; however, the journey can never begin if the complexity of the problem is an excuse for inaction.
ExxonMobil has refined that idiotic talking point over decades, all the while lining the pockets of their immoral executives and investors with trillions of dollars of dirty cash. C'mon, you're smarter than to fall for that cheap trick, unless you are also profiting on the world's demise.
Deepspace: One of the qualities a lefty must possess is the ability to point the finger, another is the ability to call others names neither of them add any strength to arguments, but rather make you (lefties) seem small and inconsequential. ExxonMobil is no more responsible for climate change than you are for not electing Hillary Clinton as President. ExxonMobil is responsible for about 3% of the world petroleum production. Petroleum is responsible for less than 1% of the electrical production. Coal and Natural Gas are responsible for 66%.
This anger crap you lefties push only pisses people off. If you want to solve problems, work with people, don't point fingers. It won't work. If you needed someone to fix your car, would you choose someone who called you names, blamed you for all their problems, etc etc. I doubt it. I've done well in life by getting along with people. You could try it, stop blaming others, stop calling names, and stop being a victim. You would be surprised how much can be accomplished when people work together.
Unbelievable! Your logic is truly something to behold! Delightfully entertaining, actually.
First, you continuously call "lefties" names, point the stink finger, blame and insult, subtlety or not, every chance you get in virtually all of your posts; then, you take great umbrage when the table is turned. What is most enjoyable, however, is when you get frustrated and resort to subjective psycho mumbo-jumbo about anger, damaged egos, and hurt feelings. Sorry, I'm not your therapist, so excuse me if my retorts get your undies in a wad! You poor baby.
"Politics ain't beanbag." "If you want a friend, get a puppy." "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." Should I go on? Your arguments fall apart when you try to dismiss the larger issues by bringing up amateurish psychoanalysis and then pivot to your own obfuscating grab-bag of canned, programmed talking points. Sorry, I've hung around too many right-wing blog-sites to get sidetracked by sophomoric debate tactics.
The only quasi-substantial point that I could pick out of your entire miffed rant was about ExxonMobil. It seemed to be a non-sequitur response to the point I had made in the first place: ExxonMobil has been refining arguments against taking action on climate change for decades in order to keep making scandalous profits. In fact, they're on record for covering up the crime of cynically dismissing the conclusions of their own scientists and then directly lying to the public about it. That is a prosecutable felony, by the way. (Hello, Mr. Trump?)
My point didn't have anything to do with their percent of world production or degree of culpability for climate disruption, which is certainly not insignificant, as you have obliquely suggested.
But to refocus: the primary issue isn't about you or me or fixing a car; it's about everybody on the planet and the looming climate disaster we are all facing together. You are either on the right side of history or you are not. I'm just not in to begging for anyone's understanding of what should be so obvious.
Ha! Thanks for the entertainment Deepspace. It is time for me to get outside and burn some tires. Try and stop me.
You folks are not living in reality. There is nothing wrong with the planet.
It's people like you, smug in their blissful ignorance of reality, who are what is wrong with the planet. Please stand in the center of your burning tires and do the world a favor.
I think about what my generation is leaving for my 6 month old grand daughter and 3 year old grand son. Do any of you right wing trolls think the same?
Thom, what I find most worrisome, is the fact that Drumpf is deeply in debt to the Russian Money Men. Mix that fact in with Rex running Exxon as well as being Secretary of State and what do you get? Well, I can readily see new oil & methane spewing gas wells popping up all over the place.