Does No One Care That 7 Million Votes Were Not Counted?

Speaking in front of the Senate Armed Services Committee yesterday, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said he was highly confident that Russia had interfered in the presidential election.

With testimony like that from the country's highest ranking intelligence officer, and a declassified report on alleged Russian interference expected out next week, Democrats now have plenty of new fodder for their endless quest to delegitimize Donald Trump by tying him to Russia.

Which is too bad, because it means they're going to continue to ignore the real scandal of the 2016 presidential election: Interstate Crosscheck, a program started by Trump advisor Kris Kobach, a fellow you may remember from the "your papers please" "walking while brown" law in Arizona, or the Muslim registry that he designed for George W. Bush in the hysteria right after 9/11.

And he's also the Secretary of State for Kansas, the epicenter of the Koch network.

According to investigative reporter Greg Palast, Crosscheck is a glorified national voter purge disguised as a tool to prevent people from double voting. Crosscheck kicked millions of people - overwhelmingly people of color, according to Palast - off the voting rolls before election day.

In many key states, the number of people purged by Crosscheck was much, much larger than Trump's margin of victory.

In Michigan, for example, the number of people purged from the voting rolls -- 449,000 -- was about 40 times larger than Trump's margin of victory -- around 10,700 votes.

In other words, Crosscheck probably won Michigan for Trump.

It also probably won him Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.

This is a HUGE story -- the presidential election was probably stolen!

But for some inexplicable reason, Democrats aren't talking about it. There's no push for an investigation, no calls for hearings, no nothing.

Why is that?

What are Democrats waiting for?

Comments

deepspace's picture
deepspace 3 years 36 weeks ago
#1

Mmm ... Kris Kobach. At least his parents were smart enough not to have his middle name start with a "K." (It's William.) Koch's Kris Kobach is just as fitting though. Oh, the ironies! The universe laughs!

That reason alone is good enough to purge his name from the registration rolls.

Goodhelp's picture
Goodhelp 3 years 36 weeks ago
#2

The Democrats that would speak out might be intimidated by DJT's revenge tactics. No one will say anything about that either! So--mum's the word.

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 3 years 36 weeks ago
#3

Is this the same Russia that the leftie/socialists were praising when Hillary and Baarack set the reset button?

Memories are short aren't they?

Legend 3 years 36 weeks ago
#4

You can jump up and down and scream cross check all you want. If the 1% owned and operated mainstream media does not want to report it, it is not reported. The public does not know what you are talking about.

As usual Dianereynolds is completely off subject.

cccccttttt 3 years 36 weeks ago
#5

What good are elections if voter integrity is in question?

Both sides must trust the process.

Rather than whining like a loser about the last election, how about Tom

suggest some ways to ensure the vote that both sides will have confidence in.

ct

Ivan-Beggs's picture
Ivan-Beggs 3 years 36 weeks ago
#6

Democrats are too nice and take the high road. They don't realize the conservatives and Christians have declared war on all that is liberal. That means war on liberal churches, war on liberal politicians, war on unions, war on public education, war on science that doesn't agree with their view. This has been going on for forty years. The Democrats, Obama and Clinton kept taking the high road when the conservatives have been fighting a street brawl and winning.

The conservatives now have the vast majority of the states, both Houses of Congress, the President and shortly will have gained 1-3 more seats on the Supreme Court plus fill 105 federal judgeships. Additionally, most of the states are gerrimandered to support the conservatives.

As Arlen Spector said, "The Republicans are intolerant and the Democrats are incompetent." Neither you nor the Democrats realize that the conservatives have been at war for forty years. Though, you seem to be waking up.

Wihosa's picture
Wihosa 3 years 36 weeks ago
#7

The Democrats are a bunch of phonies. They don't fight for anything. Why the hell didn't Obama make a recess appointment to the Supreme Court? Would the R's have complained? Of course! But so what. We sat by and let them steal a Supreme Court appointment from us!

If the positions had been reversed you could have bet your last dollar that the Repubs would have made a recess appointment.

Democrats are just to happy to be members of Congress, they're afraid of losing their jobs. Nice people, but bad at politics.

Repubs great at politics, can't govern.

SalemPaul's picture
SalemPaul 3 years 36 weeks ago
#8

The Dems have been increasingly out manuevered by

Republicans for far too long...

Dems in the middle, totally surrounded by: The more forceful Republican politicians; Growing numbers of right wing media outlets; As well as an ever expanding number of right wing extremist State Legislatures. Like the guys in the center of a firing squad circle, the Dems say,

"Now we've got them where we want them!"

Words of the Walter Mosley title, "Always Outnumbered, Always Outgunned." comes to mind.

dougbacker's picture
dougbacker 3 years 36 weeks ago
#9

The DNC didnt even chip in to help the Green party fight the fraud. That's why i am done with them. I worked at getting Berners to vote for HRC (against Trump) but now I'm feeling like i was duped as bad as the trumpeters.

haroldp's picture
haroldp 3 years 36 weeks ago
#10

Well I think that if they open up that door we would find the Democrats hand in the cookie jar also, and they are not ready for that.

sweetbizil's picture
sweetbizil 3 years 36 weeks ago
#11

Unfortunately that's a real easy question to answer Thom. The sad truth of the matter is that the establishment Dem's are just as corrupt as the establishment Repub's.

Granted, they don't exactly get their kick back money and campaign donations from the same exact industries/people. Nonetheless, they are just as corrupt and indebted to their rich donors who keep all establishment politicians on a leash.

Most of the establishment D's stand to gain no matter which puppet is in office be him/her D or R. It's the sad state of our oligar.... I mean democracy.

Just waiting for Democratic and Republican working people to stop the polarization and see the sham that is being played out on a national scale at their large expense.

Uncle Ralph's picture
Uncle Ralph 3 years 36 weeks ago
#12

There's so much we don't care about here in the US. We just don't have the energy for it.

No one remembers, but there was a congressional investigation into JFK's execution several years after the Warren Commission botch job. The investigators concluded that there was more than one gunman. They didn't care, however, who that extra gunman or gunmen was/were, or how how he/they happened to be shooting at the president at the exact same instant as Lee Harvey Oswald. That would have involved a conspiracy and everybody knows that conspiracies are bunk. But it was OK because the American people didn't care either by that point. Too busy, too tired, whatever.

There was the way that Saudi nationals were spirited out of the US on government chartered flights the day after 9/11. Somebody in the US government was afraid that Saudis might be lynched. They seemed to know that Saudis of some description had been responsible for the attack. The American people didn't have any idea who was responsible until weeks afterward.

Remember the anthrax scare after 9/11? Whatever happened with that? How was that resolved? It wasn't. The government found out that the anthrax used had come from a US bio-warfare facility (one of the ones we're not supposed to have under international treaty) and the whole incident was shut down---investigation, news coverage and all. And nobody knew or cared.

As Scottie Nell Hughes of the Trump organization explained on the Diane Rehm Show in December, there are no such things as facts, truth doesn't matter anymore. What we don't remember is that it hasn't for some time. We have a tradition in America, and as a species in general, of deferring to the despots in nearly every instance. Deferring to the despots might not always be right, but sure is always easy.

With Putin's boy in the oval office, things will probably get interesting, but as long as our internet and cable TV subscriptions aren't screwed with, we won't say, or much less, do anything. That's who we are these days.

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 3 years 36 weeks ago
#13

Go back and re-read the first paragraph or two of the OP.

Legend • 1 hour 20 min ago
#4

As usual Dianereynolds is completely off subject.

Riverplunge's picture
Riverplunge 3 years 36 weeks ago
#14

*AHEM* According to person named, uh.. Thom Hartmann we are due for a terrible recession What dufus would want to be in office when it all comes crashing down?? This is a blessing in disguise!!!

Riverplunge's picture
Riverplunge 3 years 36 weeks ago
#15

Most Democrats are like a scared mouse in a corner. Only, but a few, have guts, truth, and the willingness, not to become like a republican.

Free Polazzo's picture
Free Polazzo 3 years 36 weeks ago
#16

There seem to be very few accountants in the Democratic Party. Perhaps that is why numbers seem to be ignored by the party leaders? Another reason is that the Dems ignore what is happening on red states. GA is where many rules have been changed by the Republican Secy of State that purges probable Democratic voters. Year after year after year. Even she voting rights act was whole, Dens ignore the rigging of registrations. Here we have to go to state drivers license to get state ID. The Republicans shuttered lots of the drivers license offices about 10 years ago.

Yep, they fighting a culture war & Dems are playing musical chairs.

RepubliCult's picture
RepubliCult 3 years 36 weeks ago
#17

In Pennsylvania there is a bit of activity:

http://www.wtae.com/article/pennsylvania-attorney-general-comments-on-vo...

On the House floor today:

Sheila Jackson Lee objected to accepting the votes from Wisconsin. Maxine Waters called for a senator to join her in objecting to certifying the EC vote. None did.

http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2017-01-06/a-traditional-en...

"Nuke" the Electoral College!

ikeberltersen's picture
ikeberltersen 3 years 36 weeks ago
#18

It's too bad that Democrats are obsessing over Russian meddling when the real problem is Republican voter suppression. The Russia story will never get traction, here's why: Podesta was the victim of a phishing expedition, he knowingly provided his password. Hardly a sophisticated computer hack. DNC staff were repeatedly warned by the FBI that they were being hacked and did nothing. What we think we kinow is that people in Russia tried to access emails in both campaigns. From that many Dems have made the leap to 'the Russian government interfered with the election' when there is no evidence that any election processes were hacked by outside people. The bigger story in this election is Republican gerrymandering, closing of polling places, manipulation of schedules, Crosscheck and voter ID laws all tailored to shutting out as many Democratic voters as possible. Many Dems appear to be obsessing over Russia in order to avoid coming to grips with the failures of their own corporate-owned party.

Dot's picture
Dot 3 years 36 weeks ago
#19

Could the reason the DNC isn't saying or doing anything about voter suppression is that it's working out as planned for the New Capitalist World Order?

During GWB's election theft nothing was done either and also left us wondering why the silence.

lloydvon's picture
lloydvon 3 years 36 weeks ago
#20

Until we the people take a stand and fight back this will continue to happen. These problems we are experiencing will not only get more out of control but harder to stop. Enough with our biased media and Political posturing, I think it's time to seriously take to the streets and demand accountability for all the lies and deception our media and politicians have shoved down our throats before we lose more rights and privledges. I'm normally a peaceful person but I'm ready to physically fight for what we have already lost and what we are soon to lose if this new administration is left to do as it pleases. It's time to wake up the world!

Oldskoold's picture
Oldskoold 3 years 36 weeks ago
#21

You, Ivan-Beggs, are absolutely correct. They stole the "God" factor years ago and 40 is about correct. When I first heard Rush Limbaugh on the radio in 97 (I think), I figured that nobody would listen, and or, give him any credence. It is a terrible combination of mind control that found it's way into the Southern Baptist mindset when the ones who claim to be Christians somehow rationalize voting consevative. The hypocrites are rampant now. With their "Greed God" on their side....... How in the real gods name do you change them now? They are indoctrinated every Sunday by evil masked in the name of God and Jesus and take it hook, line, and Sinker!

wynfinity's picture
wynfinity 3 years 36 weeks ago
#22

I've been asking my friends about this issue. Why the distraction of Russian hacking when the real story is 7 million purged voters. And then N. Carolina is rated as no longer democratic. These friends are "liberal" voters. For some reason they can't get their heads around the level of violence against the integrity of a functional system that's been taking place for decades. The only thing I see informationally different is that they mostly listen to maintstream news with a sprinkling of liberal blogs. None of them read the muck-rakers. The good investigative reporters of today. Few have heard of Thom Hartmann. I think Jefferson said that education was the most important factor in maintaining a functioning republic. We no longer teach Civics in schools. No longer teach logic. People don't knows how this system is supposed to work.. Sad...

deepspace's picture
deepspace 3 years 36 weeks ago
#23

John Dean, former White House counsel to Nixon who blew the whistle on Watergate, wrote a timeless and cogent book, published in 2006, titled, "Conservatives without Conscience." All conservatives without a conscience should read it; it would be like looking in the mirror. Then, they should drink a big glass of shut-up juice!

Democrats no doubt lost the election for all the reasons stated above. Although, "Interstate Crosscheck" purging Democrats by the millions has to be at the top of the list, as far as the mathematical calculations of the Electoral College is concerned anyway. Coupled with the three million popular vote difference, those are just huge, unprecedented numbers that future historians won't be able to ignore.

Nevertheless, Democrats definitely lost touch with many of their constituencies at the state and municipal levels, first, by kowtowing to the big-money donor class and, second, by stupidly playing softball with Republicans who play hardball. Let's keep in mind, however, establishment Democrats were playing by the rules of a game rigged by the conservative Supreme Court, primarily due to "Buckley v. Valeo" (1976) -- money is speech -- and "Citizens United v. FEC (2010) -- corporations are people.

By raising money from ordinary people, Bernie proved that wasn't a good enough excuse, as far as the first point is concerned. There simply is no excuse for the second point. The bruised and bloodied Democrats still standing must now rid their party of the go-along-to-get-along establishment cowards and fist-fight the lying-bastard conservatives right down into the mud and the blood of every piece of crap legislation they try to ram through Congress and foist onto the American people.

Yes, it's good for liberals to drink their own big glass of wake-up juice, but we should not stop at just blaming Democrats for the same exact things Republicans are guilty of a thousand fold. Let us never forget who are the real enemies and purveyors of iniquity in the first place. Unfortunately, since we're stuck with a Constitutionally mandated two-party system, we need to rally behind the opposition party with the best chance of fighting back effectively, while still supporting our third-party alternatives.

The traitors to our Constitutional principles are the alleged "conservatives" -- the xenophobes, misogynists, white supremacists, fear mongers, greed heads, false religionists, bigots, haters, and liars who cling to the backward-looking, reactionary Republican Party. These cretins are represented so appropriately by their hater-in-chief -- the authoritarian serial sexual pervert with the fake clown hair and creepy fish lips, an absurd fool spewing out nonsense who is the very definition of illegitimate.

Kend's picture
Kend 3 years 36 weeks ago
#24

So the Democrats lost the election because of Russian hackers and Crosscheck. May I remind everyone this was all done under a Democratic government, lead by president Obama. Maybe it is a good thing they lost, under their watch who knows what else would happen. The truth is they lost touch with middle America. Average working Americans are tired of watching their good paying jobs leave the country, they are sick of watching illegals pour into their country driving down wages and taking their jobs. At the end of the day although LGBTQ rights are extremely important they don't feed their families. Climate change is real but they have been told the oceans are going to rise for 30 years yet even though they where forced to watch Al Gore in school he was wrong New York is still above water. Americans watched as the sitting government was going into debt almost trillion dollars a year of their hard earned money and have almost nothing to show for it. Clinton gave them no hope. She said nothing to make them feel better about their future. So quit blaming the Republicans for everything and suck it up. Remember the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem

Julie Dahlman's picture
Julie Dahlman 3 years 36 weeks ago
#25

Right on!

Carol Jones's picture
Carol Jones 3 years 36 weeks ago
#26

Thom, Could you explain how the votes are eliminated. I called the local Elections Director for Pima County, AZ and was told that there is no way to identify a absentee ballot to a specific person after they have voted. They submit the county ballot totals to the AZ Secretary of State after they have been accepted and approved. Yet when I check the status of my specific absentee ballot at the SOS for AZ website, it shows my vote was not found and tells me to check with my County Elections Office. I did and they said my vote was tabulated. I have a common name so wonder how cross check eliminates votes. I checked my husbands ballot also at the SOS for AZ website and received the same response, which indicated his absentee ballot vote was not found. When I called them (the AZ Secretary of State) directly to check my vote they put me on hold and researched, came back and told me they did not find my ballot. I am baffled. Could they eliminate votes at the state level even though accepted and counted by the county I live in? The Election Director in our county was unfamiliar with Interstate Cross Check and I had to explain it to him. That was unbelievable. He could not tell me how votes are eliminated by this program. He didn't know about the program. I encouraged him to read the Rolling Stone article. I asked him to check into it and call me back, which he didn't do.

turbineguy's picture
turbineguy 3 years 36 weeks ago
#27

The DNC seems to be dominated by a neoconservative base that has strongly backed the Clintons' and the Obamas' hawkish stance towards Russia. There seems to be a faction within our military and government that is pushing hard for military conflict with Russia. Keeping a negative focus on Russia really serves two purposes; One to deflect criticism of their inept handling of the campaign, the other to further that neoconservative agenda. A focus on election fraud would necessarily dilute that agenda and may be unnacceptable to the monied interests, to which the DNC is beholden, that run our electoral system.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 3 years 36 weeks ago
#28

@Kend#24:

Well done! This concise synopses of misinformation has condensed reams of right-wing propaganda into a quick, easy to digest blurb. It reflects a streamlined command of rapid-fire talking points that seems well-honed, almost routine, like it just slips off the tongue without much thought. Evidently, years of practice sitting glued to Faux "News," or the equivalent, absorbing vacuous lies and half-truths with large, trusting cow eyes has paid off well, developing into a special talent, devoid of bothersome critical thinking, to very smoothly itemize each canard.

Karl Rove coined the phrase "dump-trucking," whereby so many big lies are dumped into a sound bite that it's virtually impossible to adequately respond. I won't even bother to try, other than to list each one -- your preferred method -- and leave it up to you to do the research. You probably won't, of course, but on the off chance that you do, here's some really good advice: Stay away from the fool's paradise of wing-nuts.

#1 Lie: "...they lost touch with middle America." (Truth: If all the votes were counted, the Democrats won middle America overwhelmingly.)

#2 Lie: "Average working Americans are tired of watching their good paying jobs leave the country," (Truth: Historically, legislation allowing corporations to profitably offshore jobs was always initiated by Republicans from the very get-go and always opposed by large majorities of Democrats in Congress. Presidents Clinton and Obama were very much out of step with the rest of their party when they so foolishly adopted corporate-Republican so-called "free" trade agreements.)

#3 Lie: "...they are sick of watching illegals pour into their country driving down wages and taking their jobs." (Truth: Obama deported more undocumented immigrants than all the other Presidents put together, down to and including Reagan. Also, during his eight years, more people have moved to Mexico than have moved to the United States. Finally, it's not an illegal immigrant problem; it's an illegal employer problem -- mostly Republican businesses deliberately hiring undocumented workers to discourage unions and better pay for American workers.)

#4 Lie: "...although LGBTQ rights are extremely important they don't feed their families." (Truth: That's just crazier than hell, making no sense whatsoever ... and terribly bigoted!)

#5 Lie: "...they have been told the oceans are going to rise for 30 years ... New York is still above water." (Truth: No, wrong! Such a misinformed statement grossly misconstrues what qualified scientist are actually warning us about. Go to the I.P.C.C. website for accurate information on anthropological climate disruption.)

#6 Lie: "...they where forced to watch Al Gore in school..." (Truth: Nobody was ever forced to watch Al Gore in any school in America or anywhere else.)

#7 Lie: "...the sitting government was going into debt almost trillion dollars a year..." (Truth: Saint Reagan tripled the national debt, and every Republican president since has increased deficit spending and the national debt much more than any Democratic presidents have ever even dreamed about. George W. Bushed never put his trillions in war debt on the books. Obama did it for him upon assuming the presidency in 2009, therefore taking the blame in right-wing media. Both Presidents Clinton and Obama have resided over periods of very significant reduced deficit spending. In fact, Clinton handed W. Bush a fairly well-balanced budget and a roaring economy, which the village idiot quickly squandered, sending the U.S. into a spiraling cycle of debt to the tune of trillions. Check out the Republican "Two Santa Claus" strategy.)

#8 Lie: "Clinton gave them no hope. She said nothing to make them feel better about their future." (Truth: Yes, she did! On her website and in most of her campaign speeches she repeatedly offered a better and brighter future for America -- much more realistic than whatever nightmares rapacious Republicans and their head clown and sexual pervert have in store for us. In the general campaign she adopted, rightfully so, eighty percent of Bernie's platform. It wasn't her fault that corporate media and the right-wing swamp only adopted the more sensational -- and more profitable -- negative narratives and lies of omission. And, it wasn't her fault that people like you never paid any attention to what she was saying, other than through the opaque filters of false news.

Bonus Lie And Truth: The Russian hacking scandal is not perpetrated by Democrats looking for excuses; it is the solid conclusion of all of our major intelligence agencies. Take up the issue with them.

Conclusion: Passive consumers of right-wing propaganda will believe almost any anti-Democratic spin that emanates from the mesmerizing screens of their devices, no matter how absurd. The pertinent question they must ask their inner selves is, "Why is it so easy to believe the lie and so hard to believe the truth?"

deepspace's picture
deepspace 3 years 36 weeks ago
#29

@ Carol Jones #26:

Watch "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Palast. You can find it on Amazon. It's definitely worth the three or four bucks! Palast also has published several books on vote-stealing by Republican Secretaries of States and the various shenanigans of billionaires over the last decade and a half or so. He has a wonderful sense of humor and presents his extensive fact-finding excursions in an entertaining way. He's a highly qualified and seasoned former FBI investigator, but still comes across as a rather humble ordinary Joe with many funny stories to tell. Hope this helps a little. :)

mjwmba@gmail.com's picture
mjwmba@gmail.com 3 years 36 weeks ago
#30

how on earth did they get away with doing all these voter cancellations? a group needs to be established to watch out for GOP trouble making! what happened to all these people who were unable to vote, are they usually non-voters? we can no longer trust the GOP to do the right thing.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 3 years 36 weeks ago
#31

@ turbineguy #27:

Although there is a large element of truth in what you say about shadowy, nefarious factions within the military-industrial-Congressional complex lobbying for a more robust military stance toward Russia, why are you pointing the big fat finger of blame exclusively at Democrats with no mention whatsoever of Republican culpability?

In fact, the individual members of these hawkish factions -- the generals, lobbyists, and politicians -- almost always are members of the Republican Party, as are most of the influential players in the FBI and the CIA.

"Neoconservative" (aka "neocon") is a label traditionally applied to a faction within the Republican Party that believes in aggressively furthering American interests (read, corporate interests) anywhere in the world by any means necessary. (Damn the treaties!) It's a mindset left over from decades of cold war with Russia, but also extends to any other country within the United States' perceived sphere of (corporate) influence. These are the same warmongers who brought us the illegal oil wars in the Middle East during "Dubya's" reign of terror, hardly a Democratic initiative.

Furthermore, your accusation against the DNC that "Keeping a negative focus on Russia really serves two purposes; One to deflect criticism of their inept handling of the campaign, the other to further that neoconservative agenda." is just flat out false with absolutely no evidence at all to back it up -- because there is none!

It's the corporate media "keeping a negative focus on Russia" because our intelligence services have presented the conclusions of their investigations to the White House, Congress, and the public. How is that in any way being orchestrated by the DNC to "deflect criticism" or to "further that neoconservative agenda?"

You are really out there in whack-job Crazyland, turbinguy. For your own sake, you need to recognize that. Two recommendations: First, get your head out of the asses of the right-wing liars; second, ask your shrink either to increase your medications or to decrease them, because the current dosages are clearly not working for you.

DHBranski's picture
DHBranski 3 years 36 weeks ago
#32

It has repeatedly been stressed that voting machines, etc., were not hacked. The vote count was not tampered with. In other words, whether there was a leak or a hack (and this is certainly a point of debate) of the DNC email server, it had no impact on the election results.

Whether the information released to the public had any impact on voting decisions is highly unlikely, for a number of reasons. In the end, Clinton did win the majority of the popular vote, but Trump won the majority of the Electoral College vote -- and that's how the system works.

What bothers me a great deal is the outrage that amounts to people wanting to shoot messenger because they didn't like the message. Would it be better to have more secrecy, keeping vitally important information from the public?

DHBranski's picture
DHBranski 3 years 36 weeks ago
#33

I agree with turbineguy, actually. "It's the record, stupid." People were pointing out from the start that if Clinton were selected, a Republican would be elected -- because of H. Clinton's own record.

ken carman's picture
ken carman 3 years 36 weeks ago
#34

"What are Dems waiting for?" I've been asking that since 2000.Apparently they'd rather go extinct. Just flooding the election with votes doesn't work. In 2000 they brought it down to one state. In 2014 two states. Now three. This is NOT going to get better. This WILL get worse.

Here's my take on it...

http://www.endofthenet.org/archives/23342

deepspace's picture
deepspace 3 years 36 weeks ago
#35

@ DHBranski:

You're missing the whole point about how millions of Democratic votes were stolen, and you're glossing over and confusing two separate, very serious issues, which do not support your conclusion: "Whether the information released to the public had any impact on voting decisions is highly unlikely, for a number of reasons."

The "reasons" that you allude to but fail to present can only be assessments based on nothing but the partisan personal opinions and wishful thinking of those who are afraid that a stolen election might delegitimize their candidate in the eyes of the public. While it's okay to have opinions, that alone does not lend credence to declarative statements, such as: "... it had no impact on the election results."

Actual evidence outside your hypothetical arena indicates quite the opposite. According to extensive aggregate polling, voters were very much influenced by the steady drip, drip, drip of negative stories, hacked and leaked by the Russian government and completely slanted in favor of Trump over Clinton.

There was a constant barrage over the email non-scandal -- but, no criminal charges, no breach of sensitive secrets, regardless of how many false allegations were hurled at her.

There were endless headlines about the inner machinations of the DNC -- but, isn't it strange that the Russians withheld their GOP hacks (I'm sure the Republican operatives behind the scenes were perfect little angels.)

There were gross, absolutely false portrayals of the Clinton Foundation -- but, again, no criminality whatsoever, and it was rated the top philanthropic organization in the world by the three main watchdog agencies. Isn't it funny (outrageous) how there was very little equivalent coverage of the actual crimes of the jokes that are the Trump Foundation and the Trump University?

All this Clinton crap was kept on the front burner relentlessly by the salacious corporate media empire, helped along not only by Putin, but James Comey as well, the underhanded, immoral, partisan FBI director. Meanwhile, the very real ongoing scandals of a clinically narcissistic pathological liar, sexual predator, and self-dealing billionaire were largely normalized and excused as, "Oh, that's just the way Trump is; it's no big deal. He's just your average locker-room guy who's not a politician. The contemptible double standard and deplorable hypocrisy is astounding!

A foreign power -- a very real potential economic and military enemy -- meddling in our election process is one of the very serious issues that you have so cavalierly downplayed. The other one, which you are equally and sadly misinformed about, is not just about the simplistic hacking of voting machines or the tampering with the count; those are not the real issue, as likely as that potential may be with such outdated software. No, the all-out assault on the beating heart of democracy, which Thom has briefly outlined in today's blog, is by far the gravest threat we have ever faced as a supposedly "free" people in our 240 history.

The Secretaries of State in nearly two thirds of our states, especially the swing states, have engaged in a predacious, long-term campaign that has purged millions upon millions of Democratic voters from the registration rolls without good cause, using a bogus program algorithm called "Interstate Crosscheck."

Not only that, they have also passed numerous, unwarranted voter suppression ID laws targeted at Democrats -- some so crude that the courts shot them down. They have cut the number of polling places, early voting days, hours of operation, poll workers, and voting machines in heavily populated Democratic districts in key states, creating long discouraging lines. Then, for good measure, they have palmed off old, poorly maintained, error-prone machines and scanners onto those same, mostly minority neighborhoods, while the wealthier, whiter Republican districts enjoyed newer machines, shorter lines, and more reliable results.

This all adds up to one-party rule -- a fascistic oligarchy with an authoritarian strong man, as illegitimate as any third-world tin-pot dictator. Stupid people elect, well, stupid people, and this time they've really outdone themselves.

And none of this concerns you? Wow!

Finally, I dare you to post any credible, on-the-record evidence of wrongdoing (don't bother with all the usual ubiquitous, ridiculous, unsubstantiated falsehoods) by Hillary Clinton in her entire career. You can't, because there is none -- nada, zero, zilch!

Sure, she may not have been all that inspiring as a politician, (I was for Bernie in the primary but was more than glad to support Hillary in the general.) Yes, she made errors in judgment (Please name one politician who hasn't.) But she is a smart, experienced, dedicated, and sincere human being who has done a lot of good in her life, and the world is a better place for it. I know that drives Hillary haters nuts to hear that. Too bad; that's the record -- the real one!

No matter how long and loud right-wing swamp toads in La La Land scream and holler to the contrary, all the idiotic conspiracy theories surrounding this woman remain just that -- the worthless currency of truly stupid people. Repeating huge lies over and over may influence low-information voters and even swing elections now and then; however, the truth always comes out sooner or later.

So, yeah, It is the record, stupid.

ken carman's picture
ken carman 3 years 36 weeks ago
#36

Essentially I agree, yet despite all the 2.8 more. As I just posted I think the major influence is the gamemanship picking specific states they have control over. They decide who votes, who they can target to knock off the rolls, what type of ID, number of machines, hours... etc.

As bad as the constant barrage was she still won the popular vote. And as far as all the "scandals" go I always say that if they really had something she would be in jail then prison. Hell, they almost kicked her husband out because he answered a question correctly. (Hence the "meaning of 'is.'") They've never been shy about pushing it as far as it can go, which to me proves they knew they had sqaut, but mere accusation could egt them what they wanted. Even then... back to the EC tac tic backed up by their own appointees. Blackwell and Harris were only the start.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 3 years 36 weeks ago
#37

Yeah, the whole mess is reaching levels of ridiculousness that no one could possibly have imagined just thirty years ago, when we thought Reagan, a B-rated actor, was the epitome of a depraved, out-of-touch buffoon, who sold out to the wealthy elites and shifted power far, far away from the people. Then there was H. Bush and W. Bush and Darth Cheney, igniting the Middle East conflagration, lusting after black gold. And now ... Trump.

To be honest, it's not just Republicans; it's the whole stinking power structure that used to be our democracy. Clinton and Obama didn't, couldn't, or wouldn't stop the inevitable carnage of too much power in the hands of too few.

We hear a lot about how bad things are going to get. The sad fact is that things are already really bad, on all fronts, and have been for a long, long time, regardless of who sat or sits on the throne.

We're about to derail the whole damn train, and most of the passengers are totally oblivious -- blank stares at little flickering screens. The insanity is no longer contained within individual parties, or even individual countries. Humanity as a whole is nearing the end of it's ability to mitigate looming disaster.

The love of money is truly the root of all evil! Hope and positivity are wearing mighty thin these days!

Alan Lunn's picture
Alan Lunn 3 years 36 weeks ago
#38

The neoliberal/disaster capitalism takeover began in earnest in the early '70s with the Powell Memo as a set of guidelines. The basic formula was 1) cut taxes then 2) starve the beast and 3) sell the commons (privatization). Reagan was just an actor/oracle to popularize the message.

By 2010, corruption was legalized with Citizens United and many Dems had or saw no choice but to join the club.

By 2012, I thought Obama would transform into Teddy Roosevelt but he didn't. I love the man, but he was neoliberalism in Democrat clothes. Dems, like Republicans, had to wine and dine the army of corporate lobbyists and raise funds. The whole system is corrupt. Money wins. We are a plutocracy and Putin will have proxy power through Trump. Putin is basically a czar, a theocrat, and a nationalist.

If the American people allow Trump's den of thieves to fulfill the Koch dream of total privatization of the Republic, the Powell Memo will have reached its apogee. Trump's generals and foxes guarding the henhouse will bankrupt the government, throw it into crisis and sell it off. The oligarchs will garner much of the proceeds from the fire sale. They will also create an economic depression (feudalism).

As per the Citigroup study on "plutonomy," there will be a backlash. As per Eric Hoffer's studies in "The True Believer" on movements, movements come not from the poor but from disenfranchised middle-class disgust. None of these things bode well for America. That's why we are in mourning. Trump isn't "making America great again"; he's flushing us down the toilet.

Kend's picture
Kend 3 years 36 weeks ago
#39

Deep space keep believing that and the Republicans will be in power for ever. My point with the LGBTQ was it was a huge election issue for the Democrats and they spent a lot of time and energy on what bathroom someone should use and that is important but when most families struggling to feed their families and they haven't see a raise for ten years it wasn't a priority for them. Also the biggest disconnect Democrats is with rural America. I understand they don't care as there isn't enough votes to worry about it but everyone eats and when food costs are skyrocketing it does become a issue. I think the biggest reason Trump won was he controlled the media, a media that was once owned by the left. Sorry that would be second, the Clinton's crooked past was the main reason they lost. Having a bunch of actors, people who make a living pretending they are someone else are not qualified to tell me who to vote for. I think it backfired with middle America.

RepubliCult's picture
RepubliCult 3 years 36 weeks ago
#40

A) File a lawsuit demanding the state prove to the voter that their vote was counted as cast in the offcial tabulation in the election.

B) Put in on the ballot in states that allow voter initiated statutes or amendments: The state must prove to the voter that their vote was counted as cast in the official tabulation in the election.

If they won't, then I feel compelled to demand, "trust me" when I report my income to the IRS! Of course the government would not stand for that. But connect these two issues together and you have the fundamental reason for our original revolution:

"No Taxation Without Representation!"

Here's some food for very serious thought on voting, which might spark an effort to change the "secrecy in our voting process": No one in American knows with certainty if their vote has EVER been counted correctly in the official tabulation. We are ordered by the government to "trust them" on this. Yet it is far from being too much to insist of our government this one small but essential function in each election: Prove to each voter that their vote was counted correctly in the final tabulation! Forbid "certifying the vote" until it's been proven that all votes have been counted as cast.

BiggestG's picture
BiggestG 3 years 36 weeks ago
#41

Recounting the Wisconsin votes was like closing the barn door after the horse is gone. Never mind the obvious voter suppression and flipped touchscreen machines without paper trails. 830,703 completed absentee early votes sat around polling places in envelopes and were under the complete control of partisan county and district clerks for up to several weeks before being fed into the scanning machines on Election Day. They were alphabetized and available for adjustment well before they were fed in to the voting machines. The Wisconsin Election Commission even prevented voters from signing the voter lists during early voting so that there could be no comparison of the signatures on the absentee voter envelopes. Doing a recount merely diverted attention from the real fraud here. Other northern Midwestern states use the same absentee and early voter methodology. This is justified under the guise that voters can legally change their ballot prior to voting day.

Legend 3 years 36 weeks ago
#42

Thank you Deepspace for your time and effort.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 3 years 36 weeks ago
#43

@ Kend #39:

#1. Lie: I never said nor do I believe in whatever you think I said that would ensure "the Republicans will be in power for ever." Seriously, Kend, why do you keep making up stuff out of the blue ... or out of the black vacuum of your alternate universe?

#2. Lie: The Democrats' national campaign did not spend any more time and energy on the "bathroom bill" proportionally than they did on any other issue important to their constituents at the local levels. Maybe that's what you were focused on to the exclusion of other, just as important issues. Please don't project onto others your own tunnel vision and strange proclivities.

By the way, connecting the dots from this issue to other unrelated issues is a tell that indicates unconscious bigotry. Look deeply into that very scary mirror above the sink the next time you use a bathroom.

#3. Lie: "...most families [are] struggling to feed their families and they haven't see [sic] a raise for ten years it." Why are you blaming the Democrats for the predictable results of Republican policies?

First sub-lie: A lot of families, unfortunately, are still struggling but certainly not "most." In 2009, Republicans handed Democrats an almost completely ruined economy -- the deepest recession since the Republican Great Depression of the thirties! Unemployment was well into double digits back then; today, Democrats are again handing over a healthier economy to the wrecking- ball party. By all measures, considering where it started, the economy has vastly improved since the days of the village idiot. (I mean the previous Republican, not the current pervert)

The unemployment rate is down to around 4.5 -- not great but leaps and bounds better than 2008-9. Of course, the underlying fundamentals are still threatening continuing growth -- thanks primarily to Republican's talent for creating bubbles. Read Matt Taibbi's "The Great American Bubble Machine" over at "Rolling Stone," or his book, "Griftopia."

Second lie: Throughout history, it has always been Republicans who have suppressed wages, and were stingy about granting raises, especially the national minimum wage -- so that owners of transnational corporations (excluding you as a boss of a small business) can run away with most of the world's booty. In fact, on this very blog site not too long ago, you were the one squealing about the Democrats' fight for livable wages.

#4. Lie: "...the biggest disconnect Democrats [have] is with rural America." No, the biggest disconnect they have is with rural, white supremacist Amerikkka. I live in a very rural state, and hundreds of thousands of white working class people -- with brains and a conscience -- voted Democratic all the way down the ballot. In California and New York and Chicago, tens of millions of people voted for Trump (stupidly). Quit trying to make elections about geography, and quit conflating racism and bigotry with rural America and working people. It's very insulting!

#5. Lie: "..they don't care as there isn't enough votes to worry about it but everyone eats and when food costs are skyrocketing it does become a issue." Your sentence construction makes no sense. I think you are trying to insinuate that Democrats only care about rural American votes when inflation becomes an issue, making it hard to feed families. Are you now blaming Democrats for inflation too, and for not caring about people in need until they need their votes? That is so disgusting on so many levels, I don't really know where to begin.

In my rural, very red state, as I suspect in most rural states, the local Democratic Party is very active all year long -- even in off years with no elections -- holding many fundraisers to help the poor and other various community endeavors, as does the Republican Party. That is what political parties are supposed to do. Duh! To get votes, they must be responsive to citizens -- that's the whole idea of Democracy. And we can hold politicians accountable by withholding our votes.

Of course, on the national level -- because of how expensive campaigning has become (due to rulings by a Republican Supreme Court), parties simply can't raise enough money to show up at every community in every state. It's a mathematical equation that both parties must follow in order to win the Electoral College votes, an antiquated system that historically only favors Republicans. Under this ridiculous, undemocratic process, both solid blue and solid red states seldom see national campaigns. Again, why are you indirectly blaming Democrats for a system that has never helped them but instead has installed another Republican buffoon as an illegitimate "president" -- even worse than the Bush brain who usurped his little toy throne?

#6. Lie: "...a media that was once owned by the left." Corporate media was never "owned by the left." Quite the opposite! You are living in a completely delusional state of denial if you think the consolidated media empire in this country has ever worked for or benefited Democrats. That is just plain laughable and requires no further explanation. Good God!

#7. Lie: "...the Clinton's crooked past was the main reason they lost." That entire meme is absolutely false! Rather than add to this already too-long post, please read post #35 above; that is, if you can stand to plow through another one of my long-winded explications. Of course, you will never be convinced otherwise -- the Big Lie (that Joseph Goebbels would be proud of) has been repeated so often over the decades that it has become a strict article of faith for right-wing liars.

#8. Lie: "Having a bunch of actors, people who make a living pretending they are someone else are not qualified to tell me who to vote for. I think it backfired with middle America."

Heehaw ... your pique is showing. I'm not sure which "actors" you are referring to exactly, but I will take it to mean the liberals whom you are interacting with on this blog. Speaking for myself, I'm just an Irish horse who steals Guinness from my unawares owner. I make a living fertilizing the pasture. Throwing turds back at trolls who crap on blogs is a service I provide to humanity for free.

Nobody is telling you "who to vote for," Kend. By all means vote away -- for whatever authoritarian, pathological liar, and sexual pervert with whom you can identify! You said you were Canadian, so you must enjoy dual citizenship. Well, good for you! Sorry; liberals are the majority in this country too. It must drive you nuts to have Justin Trudeau, an unabashed liberal, for Prime Minister. At least you can find a little solace down hear in Trumpland, where a minority of fascist followers happen to get lucky and stole an election.

Conclusion: What "backfired with Middle America" is massive election fraud perpetrated by -- you guessed it -- Republicans! If all the votes were counted, the liberals down here in this part of the North American continent would have easily won the Presidency, the Senate, and eroded the Republican's undemocratic, gerrymandered super majority in the House.

That's a critical "if." The integrity of future elections must at all cost ensure the survivability of our democracy -- and really, the entire planet, when so many Republican climate deniers are now holding the strongest reins of power! Everything depends on whether this present generation of voters, at the very least, fully recognizes and acknowledges the dire threat to democracy that we have just witnessed. More importantly, every citizen -- including dual citizens -- must protest and clamor loudly for change. Otherwise, it's over.

I don't hold out much hope; there are just too many ubiquitous lies disseminated by too many gullible fools inhaling too much false-news gas emanating from the right-wing swamp.

ps: We can do this all day, every day, Kend, if you and your fellow trolls insist on spinning flagrant fallacies on this blog.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 3 years 36 weeks ago
#44

@ Legend #42:

My pleasure. And thank you for your many contributions, airing the truth. This stuff is vitally important!

@ BiggesstG #41:

Yeah, it was a scam. Greg Palast consulted with Jill Stein to pivot off the recounts and expose the widespread fraud, but Republicans at every level shut them down. Obviously, they are covering their tracks.

(I edited a few things on my previous post, so it wound up out of sequence.)

k. allen's picture
k. allen 3 years 36 weeks ago
#45

One problem with "the law" in America is, even if you can see a problem coming, the legal system won't intervene until a crime is committed - with enough evidence to justify prosecution (meaning, will it win the case in court) and enough witnesses who are willing to testify honestly in a climate where false testimonies are easily bought and live witnesses are effectively dissuaded from testifying.

I figure if Bernie Sanders, Bill and Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden are not prepared to challenge the vote in court - now, just as in 2004 - who am I to do otherwise?

Those folks must have a clearer picture of the political reality than I do. Either they know they cannot win the case in court, in spite of available evidence, or we are witnessing one piece of a complex process of determining truth from lie, at the same time as testing individual and community integrity over time - too deep for me to see through.

Kend's picture
Kend 3 years 36 weeks ago
#46

Deepspace in 2009 the Democrats had the house, senate and the Whitehouse in eight years you lost them all and increased you national debt about nine trillion dollars. Blame it on whatever you want. You win.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 3 years 36 weeks ago
#47

@ Kend #46:

That's your hold card ? After nearly all the rest of the right-wing nonsense has been exposed as pure crap, the national debt is now your big ace in the hole? Strange...

The debt increased about 7 trillion since 2009, and a good percentage of that was because Obama put the village idiot's trillions of dollars in war debt on the books and shouldered the blame from low-information voters for Republicans' original sins.

Ever since, our nation has been hopelessly tangled up in Republican-induced, intractable Middle East conflicts at the expense of domestic spending. Public wars to protect the private assets of the oil industry and obscene profits of defense contractors don't come cheap (socialism for the wealthy). Republicans also blew up the debt by awarding unwarranted tax cuts to their billionaire donor buddies, shifting the tax burden down onto the bony shoulders of a dwindling middle class. At least the rate of deficit spending has decreased under Obama since Republicans started World War Three over oil and tanked the world economy.

Just think of all the taxpayer money -- and lives -- that would have been saved if Darth Cheney hadn't made daily trips down to the CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia to brow-beat intelligence analysts, hadn't presented cherry-picked "facts" to Karl Rove's White House Iraq Group (WHIG), and hadn't lied America into a war in the wrong country. (Read "Hubris" by Isikoff and Corn; "The Greatest Story Ever Sold" by Frank Rich; "Blood Money" by T. Christian Miller; "Fiasco" by Thomas Ricks.)

There's your national debt! History sucks for wing-nut propagandists! The debt increased under Republican administrations much more than under under Democrats, going all the way back to Reagan, who tripled it. Again, read about the Republican "Two Santa Clause" strategy.

But don't get your undies in a bundle over the debt that we owe ourselves. We're still very far from the danger mark. U.S. Treasuries are still the safest, stablest, and most sought after investment anywhere, and a great way to spread around a little positive piece of America to the rest of the world. Nobody ever lost money investing in our treasury bonds, backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government.

The "Oh my God, we're all gonna end up in the poor house because of the national debt" is just another right-wing canard to scare low-information voters.

ps: This isn't a game about me "winning" some kind of weird debate you're having with yourself in your head. It's a struggle to expose lies and truth, from wherever it may come and to wherever it may lead. If we lose that struggle, well, then we all lose.

MEJ's picture
MEJ 3 years 36 weeks ago
#48

We'll never really know why the dems don't stand up and cry foul, unless we retake our government and institute a truth and reconcilliation commission.

What's more important is what we're going to do about it. The sooner we understand that we can't vote our way out of the mess, the better it will be. The republicans made big gains and will soon have more control and power than ever. They grow more brazen all the time. If they stole the last round of elections, what makes anyone think that they won't do the same (and more) in 2018?

I wish Thom would call for open rebellion, protests more consistent, persistent and massive than ever before in our history #not my government, #not my congress, #not my state legislature, etc. instead of advising us to infiltrate and reform the democratic party.

We don't have the luxury of time to work for reforms through the parties. We're going to pass too many tipping points before we get adequate results and the we'll just get environmental and civilizations collapse as our consequence. And who knows what horrible things the new administrations will do? We could loose net neutrality, the new anti-propaganda act could be used to quash progressive programing and they could start WWIII just to distract us and consolidate power whie making big bucks.

I've suggested some deep demonstration dates before and I'll do it again now. It's not complete, but it's a start and it would be nice if some of you would help to fill in the rest of the calendar year.

Jan 21 was the infamous Citizens United Ruling

Feb 22 was the date in 1797 that the New Jersey Assembly passed legislation allowing women the right to vote, a right that they soon thereafter lost. Will the women and those who support equal rights come out in force on this date in 2017? Or will you condone the misogynist in chief through non-participation?

March 6 was the Dread Scott decision in 1857 when the Supreme Court effectively eliminated black men from voting. If you support liberty and justice for all then March 6, 2017 is an auspicious date to take to the streets in opposition to the kleptocrats and in celebration of the progress we have made as a nation.

The last week of March is significant in our history of events pertaining to electoral participation and integrity.

  • March 26, 1790 passage of the Naturalization Act that excluded Native Americans, Negros and Asians from voting

  • March 27, 2002 brought passage of the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act = McCain-Feingold Act

  • March 30, 1870 brought the 15th Amendment giving blacks the right to vote

May 6 was another legislated discrimination effort excluding Chinese from voting rights with the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882

June 4 brought a victory in 1919 for women's suffrage

June 25 was when the Supreme Court invalidated portions of the Voting Rights Act justifying the decision by asserting that we now lived in a post-racial society because the American People elected it's first black President by such overwhelming numbers that the kleptocrats were unable to steal that office without risking massive suspicions of their fraudulent adjustments to vote tallies.

July 18 was the date that the Supreme accepted to adjudicate the Citizens United Case

July 20 marks the anniversary of the first human to walk on the moon. What does that have to do with election reforms and stuff like that? That date is perhaps the best date to rally together to remember and celebrate what we can do as a people untied with a functional government Of, By and For The People.

Neil Armstrong said, "One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind" and "We come in peace for all of humanity". So when millions of people demonstrate and celebrate on that day we reaffirm what we can do. Millions of others around the world should rally in solidarity with The New American Revolution because we do live in a global Society of Democrats who share this one precious planet, our only home that is currently in dire environmental peril and what happens in the United States affects the entire world.

toddmazz22 3 years 36 weeks ago
#49

Thom, you did not mention Jill Stein or anything about the Green Party in your post. Why not? Jill Stein made an attempt to verify the votes in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. The DNC did little to support this effort. I still do not understand why that effort did not go anywhere? It is painfully clear that the government of the USA is corupt beyond repair and our votes do not count! Furthermore, very few people are doing anything to draw attention to this or make changes.

tomas reyer's picture
tomas reyer 3 years 36 weeks ago
#50

You asked what Democrats are waiting for.

Here is my answer, informed by 27 years of observation:

They are waiting to grow some balls, so they might be able to let them hang out like the Republicans do.

Only that will get you elected in America. That is what "The People" appreciate- cajones.

"The People" will vote for balls over brains any day of the week in any year.

Guaranteed!

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