The TPP is dead - and Donald Trump killed it

The TPP is dead - and Donald Trump killed it.

In one of his first actions as President, Donald Trump issued an executive order yesterday officially withdrawing the United States from that massive so-called free trade deal.

Speaking to reporters as he signed the order, Trump called it a win for American workers.

OK. Great Thing for the American worker what we just did.

Later on in the day, Trump held a meeting with union leaders to celebrate the death of the TPP, and afterwards he hinted that his executive action was the start of a new era in American trade policy.

And we can have trade. We're going to have one-on-one. And if somebody misbehaves we're going to send them a letter of termination, 30 days, and they'll either straighten it out or we're gone. Not one of these deals where you can't get out of them and it's a disaster. So we'll have plenty of trade. But TPP wasn't the right way.

Killing the TPP and moving towards a more traditional trade policy makes good on one of Trump's biggest campaign promises.

It also puts Democrats in a very awkward position.

Fighting for sensible trade policies has historically been a Democratic position - at least in the modern era - and it's always been Democrats who've led the charge in Congress against NAFTA, CAFTA, and all the other job-killing trade deals.

But now it's Trump and the Republicans who are talking the talk on trade - and not just about the TPP.

The Trump administration is also reportedly going to try to renegotiate NAFTA.

So - what should progressives do?

Should they work with Trump to help achieve one of their most important policy goals?

Or would that legitimize a President who - regardless of what he says about the TPP - still poses a serious threat to American workers and American democracy?

Comments

Ou812's picture
Ou812 3 years 34 weeks ago
#1

I don't believe President Trump cares what the Democrats do. He doesn't need Democrats to work with him. He is going to renegotiate the trade agreements. He'll succeed and become a working class hero. Democrats can either be part of the solution or become irrelevant.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 3 years 34 weeks ago
#2

@ Thom's questions:

"So - what should progressives do?
Should they work with Trump to help achieve one of their most important policy goals?
Or would that legitimize a President who - regardless of what he says about the TPP - still poses a serious threat to American workers and American democracy?"

...all of the above!

Since we're stuck with a completely illegitimate sexual pervert fouling the seat in the Oval Office, and a stolen election, the two-faced corporate Democrats better quit gazing at their puss-gut navels, join with progressives in their party, and get ahead of this circus clown!

They need to squeeze him for all he's worth (which is almost nothing), salvage what they can for the benefit of the People (remember us?), and throw him back in the face of the Republican Party and the corporate-fake media, who enabled this fascist's rise to ultimate, authoritarian power.

Hopefully, if the established Democratic Party can find their center of balance once again, they can divide Republicans' sorry asses and expose their utter hypocrisy on these vicious, job-killing "un-free" trade deals, which they have been pushing for decades to screw over American workers and widen the wealth gap.

Fight back, gawddamn it!

@ Ou812:

Keep sucking the big one.

:-O

stecoop01's picture
stecoop01 3 years 34 weeks ago
#3

As long as Trump is behaving like a Democrat, then other Democrats should get behind him and support him. Of course, as soon as he starts behaving like a Republican again, then Democrats should abandon him like a stinky sock. That is, after all, the American way.

mrohrer 3 years 34 weeks ago
#4

That is the problem. He doesnt care about Democrats that are more than 50% of the population. I believe you drank the koolaid. Im sorry.

mrohrer 3 years 34 weeks ago
#5

Donald Trump has NPD !!!

Many psychology experts use the criteria in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), published by the American Psychiatric Association, to diagnose mental conditions. DSM-5 criteria for NPD includes these features:

• Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance.
• Expecting to be recognized as superior.
• Exaggerating your achievements and talents.
• Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate.
• Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people.
• Requiring constant admiration.
• Having a sense of entitlement.
• Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations.
• Taking advantage of others to get what you want.
• Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others.
• Being envious of others and believing others envy you.
• Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner.

Narcissistic personality disorder crosses the border of healthy confidence into thinking so highly of yourself that you put yourself on a pedestal and value yourself more than you value others. Does this sound like Mr. Trump? You bet it does!

Bob Smith's picture
Bob Smith 3 years 34 weeks ago
#6

Just because a murderer serves at a soup kitchen to find his victims, that hardly redeems his murderous behavior! Only work with him on the things we know will help the people!

Uncle Ralph's picture
Uncle Ralph 3 years 34 weeks ago
#7

It's the corporate oligarchy that has pushed through job-killing trade deals and they have had the unconditional support of Republican and Democratic administrations alike. Democrats don't have a leg to stand on here. Hillary was pro-TPP big time until she found out she could not win the nomination from Bernie Sanders if she was openly for it, so, at least as far as her "public position" went (as opposed to her self-described "private position") she reversed herself.

Let's not forget that we really were voting for the lesser of two evils this last election and that our evil was not very much less evil and did not smell very much less foul than the evil that won. The corporate oligarchy would have been happy in either case---that's how much real-world difference there was.

Scotty11 3 years 34 weeks ago
#8

I agree...support his positions when they benefit the progressive agenda...disagree (vehemently), when they doesn't.

...and, do our best to get him out of there within the next two years

Oh yeah, and keep the heat on them Corporate Dems.

The Other Katherine Harris's picture
The Other Kathe... 3 years 34 weeks ago
#9

To my mind, this question falls under the "even a broken clock is right twice a day" banner. When it's accurate, don't second-guess it -- but that doesn't mean you have to give up on fixing it.

Getting us out of the TPP is huge and, as we know, losing more jobs was only a secondary issue; the BFD was losing what's left of our sovereignty to corporate kangaroo courts. I'm glad -- nay, ecstatic -- to thank ANYBODY for saving us from that.

I'm damn near as glad he's resisting the neocons' Putin tantrums -- but the fun ends there, I'm purple with fury about his stinking cabinet picks and his moves so far against healthcare and for pipelines.

russ h's picture
russ h 3 years 34 weeks ago
#10

I'm beginning to believe that he is a closet Bernie fan... OK - maybe not a fan so much as the perfect follow-on. I think he's doing a great job at carrying on the revolution - about getting people involved in politics. Maybe in an unusual way, but all that really counts is getting people active. And on the occasion that he does something that I like, or others like, then awesome! it's a twofer!

russ h's picture
russ h 3 years 34 weeks ago
#11

Right on!

Ou812's picture
Ou812 3 years 34 weeks ago
#12

Deepspace

"Keep sucking the big one" Brilliant attack----but sucking the big one would leave you out. :)

deepspace's picture
deepspace 3 years 34 weeks ago
#13

@ Uncle Ralph # 7:

You're right, of course, that Democratic Administrations -- Clinton and Obama (and I think even Carter to a certain extent) helped Republicans push through corporate, oligarchical, job-killing trade deals, and that "Democrats don't have a leg to stand on here."

I would only add that the majority of Democrats in Congress, at least, notwithstanding the corp dems, did not support the various anti-labor trade pacts. Neither did the majority of street-level, rank-and-file Democrats, especially workers belonging to unions (once upon a time, a large base of the party), as well as most other workers -- of all political stripes -- who work hard at hard jobs, as opposed to sitting on their asses somewhere in the top floors of anti-labor corporate glass towers.

It is definitely the leadership, however, who repeatedly double-crossed their own constituents. Although they did try to do a lot of good things throughout the decades, this was a huge, huge failure of representative government. It should never be forgotten, never glossed over, never swept under the carpet, lest they continue their traitorous behavior against working people.

What the hell was Obama thinking pushing the TPP right up to the election?! That was just plain dumb coming from such an intelligent person! Clinton and her advisors were equally tone deaf and didn't come around until Bernie convinced her. By then, unfortunately, Trump occupied the high ground -- in the grossly conditioned electorate's minds anyway.

It was also a complete failure of the First Amendment and the press, our so-called fourth pillar of accountable democracy, when the MSM didn't grant Bernie three billion dollars worth of free exposure, like they did the lying pervert who stole the issue from him.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 3 years 34 weeks ago
#14

Maybe it's the Putin connection, but man I look at pictures of the Trump family and all that comes to mind is those old 1918 pictures of the Romanov family, and I'm not saying that just to be mean, it really is the truth. It's starting to creep me out. I think we're at another one of those points in history where there will be no decent way out...and it's not because I desire any other way either.

Trump isn't any more legit than Ryan, McConnell, or Pence...they all got to where they are via billionaire sponsored lies, election fraud, deceit, corpse media propaganda, Putin...whatever it took.

For the umpteenth time the answer is offense....the Democrats need to be screaming lift the cap, single payer, as well as exposing Ryan and McConnell's efforts to screw hard working citzens. These guys don't want anybody to know what they're doing...the Dems need to take advantage of every chance they get on national television and aggressively speak the truth about what the republicans are up to. The vast majority want the cap raised as well as single payer...the dems need to take advantage of this. I can't think of any other issues that will ignite people more than these two will.

It also needs to be repeated over and over that Fox News is simply a right wing propaganda machine until the network becomes a total national joke . This network has done more damage to democracy than any other single factor in history. We are where we are today because of Fox News, and some help from Putin. I say this based on first hand evidence of foxmerized family and friends.....it's why red and rural america voted the way they did...absolutely no doubt.

Anklejive.com's picture
Anklejive.com 3 years 34 weeks ago
#15

I've always cringed when you and hair-on-fire liberals dissed the TPP. It was one of President Barack Obama's signature foreign policy/trade agreements which went WAY farther than ever before in righting the wrongs of NAFTA. People want to blame the TPP and Obama for the globalisation that has occurred naturally as the world becomes a smaller and smaller place, due to technology. TPP was a response and a hedge to that.

Anyone who thinks blue-collar factory jobs are coming back to the U.S. is fooling themselves. Most factory jobs that are created here will involve technology and robots. A high school education will no longer be enough to compete for those types of jobs.

What Donald Trump did, with his promises and bluster, is hoodwink the people who are most vulnerable into thinking he would do something for them. In fact, he (in one fell swoop), is dismantling one of the most progressive trade agreements in history.

Sad!

mwalkerco's picture
mwalkerco 3 years 34 weeks ago
#16

Fight to get what we want, not just to watch Trump fail. Dems always succomb.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 3 years 34 weeks ago
#17

@ Ou812 # 12:

Heehaw! Brilliant counterattack!

Well, I am a horse, so that's not exactly correct. Anyway, I happen to be wired straight but do respect and appreciate anyone wired differently. More power to them!

Your avatar, on the other hand, should come out of the closet and quit hating his/herself. You might be much happier.

:--))

Ou812's picture
Ou812 3 years 34 weeks ago
#18

@deepspace 17

Well, I am a horse, so that's not exactly correct.

A Gelding for sure

deepspace's picture
deepspace 3 years 34 weeks ago
#19

@ Ou812 # 18:

Haha ... good one! Okay, okay; I'll concede!

We probably shouldn't escalate this particular one-upmanship of avatars. It's kinda fun trading jibes with you these many past weeks (months?), but we had better call a truce on the double entendre stuff before our comments get "flagged as offensive."

My bad; I started it. Sorry 'bout that.

As far as the other contentious exchanges on this forum are concerned, however, you are my favorite "rightie" troll with whom to do battle. Although, you probably don't consider that a compliment.

:--))

deepspace's picture
deepspace 3 years 34 weeks ago
#20

@ Anklejive #15:

Yeah, yeah, yeah -- the jobs will never come back because of this, that, and everything.

Isn't it strange how it took only thirty years to transplant most of our colossal manufacturing base, the wealth of a nation, onto the soil of our principal geopolitical competitor because of very deliberate (not "naturally") legislation and regressive tax policies; yet, by reversing the dynamic, it would mysteriously take all eternity -- and then we still could not get any of it back?

Isn't it strange that China is on the verge of creating, possibly, up to 14 million new, high-quality jobs to lead the world in renewable energy technologies, but America somehow lost the manufacturing initiative that once made us an economic powerhouse that supported millions of good-paying jobs -- and, in fact, we are now going backwards?

Your argument turns on a few disingenuous logical fallacies:

Who do you think would manufacture the robotic machinery used in your hypothetical U.S. robot factories -- aliens from outer space? No -- it would be other factories! Have you ever considered that more enlightened countries and their politicians might be protecting their factories and their "blue-collar workers" (a condescending misnomer) with import tariffs, commonly through versions of the VAT system and smart corporate tax policy? Gee, how did other big Western democracies do that? Alien magic?

Furthermore, how did they gain the technological prowess to pull off such an amazing feat? Well, it must be extraterrestrial. How else? Again, have you ever considered that they might simply subsidize higher education to make it affordable and accessible for everyone who wants to learn the necessary skills to function in the modern world? Nope, we didn't see that in your analysis, either.

Evidently, Americans must be just too stupid and lazy to puzzle through all these very confusing alien concepts. Is that what you are implying? Sure sounds like it!

This may come as a shock to you, but mainstream Democrats largely identify with committed reformers, which you have so condescendingly dismissed as "hair-on-fire liberals," who are fighting for real revolutionary change in the mindset of our politicians. They consider it much more preferable than throwing in with the lot of smug, out-of-touch, intellectually dishonest, phony progressives, who collude with anti-labor Wall Street billionaires and the dark forces of globalization.

Obama is a good man who tried to do a lot of good things, but he was definitely on the wrong side and way out on a limb on this whole issue of transnational corporate giveaways and anti-labor, anti-sovereign, anti-environmental backroom deals. Such an untenable and stubborn political position for the leader of the Democratic Party was, although not the defining cause, a big contributing factor in losing this election. Screw his "signature" legacy on this particular front!

I really, really hate to admit it, but I do agree with some of the so-called "conservative" Republican trolls -- with huuuge caveats, of course!! -- on this reality check of Obama's misfire. NAFTA was Bill Clinton's major f--kup too! You can't merely tweak a thoroughly corrupt system and expect to "reform" it fundamentally.

Wall Street Democrats had better get their big dumb heads out of their big dumb asses and clean out all the self-deceptive crap plugging up their ears, if they ever expect to win any office more influential than city dogcatcher.

When they advocate for policies that ultimately hurt American workers, they are loading the guns of their enemies.

Sad!

U.S. Citizen's picture
U.S. Citizen 3 years 34 weeks ago
#21

The Dems should work with Trump if he proposes a good plan. However, the devil is in the details and his plan could actually be worse.

U.S. Citizen's picture
U.S. Citizen 3 years 34 weeks ago
#22

The Dems should work with Trump if he proposes a good plan. However, the devil is in the details and his plan could actually be worse.

k. allen's picture
k. allen 3 years 34 weeks ago
#23

Initially, I had the impression the TPP was supposed to level the playing field economically, so more people and countries could participate in, contribute to, and (hopefully) benefit from the global economy ... this would be an effort to balance the coin, internationally, so a broad range of nations could participate as independent equals rather than slaves to insurmountable debt to the world bank and domination by western powers ... ((at least, that's how I heard it.))

Now, who would stand to lose, or gain from such an arrangement?

I would say, all told, too many people in too many places to count.

... or control ...

So, what kind of dragon-slaying solutions come to mind?

That sovereignty question started out as a provision to enable First Nations groups to negotiate their rights with a stubbornly obstructive government ((back when it was called a "... Treaty" - and that would give precedence to sovereign rights - which is why congress changed the name to "... Agreement". Ha-ha!!))

Apparently, nothing was final, and it was supposed to have something in it for everyone, though, clearly, not everyone would accept it as written, so it would wind up in court, for years ... short story, job security for the legal profession ...?

It looks like "the people" want simpler solutions.

Right this minute, I'm concerned about life-water protectors at Standing Rock, and other locations that have been named, but not mentioned ... often ... enough ...

the law is rewritten as we speak.

... who will guard the lives
of those who dare to stand,
willing to die for this cause?

... who is the hero ...
who will serve truth
and honor sacred laws ...?

Do these folks have to die to prove the obvious?

hankgagnon's picture
hankgagnon 3 years 34 weeks ago
#24

You ask?

Should they work with Trump to help achieve one of their most important policy goals?

Or would that legitimize a President who - regardless of what he says about the TPP - still poses a serious threat to American workers and American democracy?

Answer: Of course we work with Trump to help achieve one of their most important policy goals. Trade/Tax policies for the last 40 years is propbably the number ONE job killer in the USA. If We (Democrats) don't, we will be no better than the scum bag obstructionist right wing RepubliCONS who did every thing in their power to stop Barack Obama from succeeding. They failed.........thank god! But the Democrats need to be involved in the process in order to have some input to ensure we don't get trade policies that are even worst than what we already have for American workers. You know the CON MEN THUG Banksters on Wall Street will have etheir filthy greedy hands in on the deals looking to screw 99% of the American work force as much as they can to FEED THEIR treasonous GREEDY Behavior!

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 3 years 34 weeks ago
#25

The left, and even more so leftie/socialists, are going to be facing conflicts and confusion with this non Republican in the oval office.

Todays conundrum will be President Trumps support for the Keystone pipeline BUT, it will be constructed with all American steel. Now there is a real panty twister.

Legend 3 years 34 weeks ago
#26

Trump claims that 3 to 5 million illegal aliens voted illegally for Hillary thus giving her the popular vote. We should have a total recount or overturn the election and have another one. This is based on his statements.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/25/politics/trump-calls-for-major-investigati...

Gary Reber's picture
Gary Reber 3 years 34 weeks ago
#27

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The Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement would have promoted the interests of giant, multinational corporations over the interests of labor, environmental, consumer, human rights, or other stakeholders in democracy, AND FURTHER CONCENTRATE OWNERSHIP OF THE NON-HUMAN PRODUCTIVE CAPITAL MEANS OF PRODUCTION!

The REAL STORY is a story about the collusion among a globally wealthy ownership class to further concentrate private sector ownership in ALL FUTURE wealth-creating, income-generating productive capital asset creation on a global scale. A sorta FREE TRADE ON STEROIDS!

With or without such trade agreements, the wealthy ownership class has institutionalized greed (creating concentrated capital ownership, monopolies, and special privileges). “Hoggish,” the term I have given this practice, is about the ability of greedy rich people to manipulate the lives of people who struggle with declining labor worker earnings and job opportunities, and then accumulate the bulk of the wealth through monopolized productive capital ownership. Our scientists, engineers, and executive managers who are not owners themselves, except for those in the highest employed positions, are encouraged to work to destroy employment by making the capital “worker” owner more productive. How much employment can be destroyed by substituting machines for people is a measure of their success – always focused on producing at the lowest cost. Only the people who already own productive capital are the beneficiaries of their work, as they systematically concentrate more and more capital ownership in their stationary 1 percent ranks. Yet the 1 percent are not the people who do the overwhelming consuming. The result is the consumer populous is not able to earn the money to buy the products and services produced as a result of substituting machines for people. And yet you can’t have mass production without mass human consumption made possible by “customers with money.” It is the exponential disassociation of production and consumption that is the problem in the United States economy, and the reason that ordinary citizens must gain access to productive capital ownership to improve their economic well-being.

There is another alternative, a balanced JUST Third Way, based on an understanding of binary economics, by which over time the economy's productive capital assets will become almost entirely individually owned by 100 percent of the citizens, as individuals. Such an economy would produce efficiencies of production fully using ever-advancing technologies of production that will fuel a greater growth of the world economies by eliminating the problematic condition of the exponential disassociation of production and consumption through ordinary citizens gaining access to FUTURE productive capital ownership to improve their economic well-being, without taking anything away from those who already own.

It is critical that private property ownership in productive capital be extended to ALL people because of the increasing power of productive capital to produce more and more of the wealth or products and services needed and wanted by society. Because productive capital – the non-human factor of production – is an independent productive power separate from human labor power, and represents an increasing role in creating wealth, the question to be addressed is: Who has the right to acquire ownership of productive capital?

While people have private property rights in their own labor, due to tectonic shifts in the technologies of production it is not enough for individual survival if people cannot get jobs, or if jobs, in reality are no longer doing a substantial part of the wealth creation. As exponential technology shifts destroy jobs and devalue the worth of labor, people need not only private property rights in their own labor, but also private property rights in the productive capital assets that are doing ever more of the work.

We as a nation, and other nations, can no longer limit people to personal rights while restricting ownership acquisition rights in wealth-creating, income-producing productive capital assets to those already well-capitalized. To be a just society, all individuals MUST have effective property rights not only in their labor and personal use possessions but also in FUTURE productive capital asset creation. Because of this imbalance, the result has been that the consumer populous is not able to get the money to buy the products and services produced increasingly by the non-human factor – physical productive capital – as a result of substituting machines for people. And yet you can’t have mass production without mass human consumption.

Broadened, private sector individual ownership of FUTURE productive capital assets as a societal objective is the ONLY individual private property-rights approach that will provide solutions to income inequality, unemployment, underemployment and anemic GDP growth – all of which is rooted in the tectonic shift in the technologies of production and its concentrated ownership. This reality, as a practical matter, is destroying jobs and devaluing the worth of labor, widening the income gap between the rich and poor and struggling (each resentful and suspicious of the other), and resulting in our inability to achieve double-digit GDP growth in the United States and other countries.

To solve this challenge, several policies must be implemented in the United States:

1. Tax reform is needed to incentivize broadened individual ownership of corporations by their employees. As an incentive, provide a tax deduction to corporations for dividend payouts, which would tighten-up the right of each owner to his or her full share of profits, a basic and historic right of private property. It would eliminate double and triple taxes on corporate profits, shifting the burden of taxation to personal incomes after exempting initial incomes that would allow low and middle class citizens not to pay taxes on incomes needed to cover basic living expenses. It will also encourage corporations to finance their growth through the issuance of new full voting, full dividend payout shares for financing their productive capital growth needs through Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOPs) and Capital Homestead Accounts (CHAs). Politically we need to insist that politicians lift barriers to the democratization of future ownership opportunity based on sound principle, rather than redistributive taxation.

2. As increasingly more workers acquire ownership stakes in FUTURE corporate productive capital assets using ESOP financing mechanisms, workers will build second incomes to support their living expenses, which in turn means they will be better "customers with money" to support demand for the products and services that the economy is capable of producing. By reason of the higher marginal spending rate on the part of workers second incomes, more of the additional income earned by the new capitalists (who have many unsatisfied consumer needs and wants) will be spent on consumption than if the income had been earned by those capitalists who now have concentrated the ownership of productive capital exclusively, and who have few, if any, consumer needs and wants. Such broadened incremental consumption will fuel a demand for more consumer products and services, which in turn will provide incentive for greater productive capital investment.

3. For all Americans, the Federal Reverse needs to create an asset-backed currency that can enable every man, woman and child to establish a Capital Homestead Account or "CHA" (a super-IRA or asset tax-shelter for citizens) at their local bank to acquire a growing dividend-bearing stock portfolio to supplement their incomes from work and all other sources of income. The CHA would process an equal allocation of productive credit to every citizen exclusively for purchasing full-dividend payout shares in companies needing funds for growing the economy and private sector jobs for local, national and global markets. The shares would be purchased using essentially interest-free credit wholly backed by projected "future savings" in the form of new productive capital assets as well as the future marketable products and services produced by the newly added technology, renewable energy systems, plant, rentable space and infrastructure added to the economy. Risk of default on each stock acquisition loan would be covered by private sector capital credit risk insurance and, if necessary, government reinsurance, but would not require citizens to reduce their funds for consumption to purchase shares.

4. Reform the tax code such that the tax rate would be a single rate for all incomes from all sources above an established personal exemption level (for example, an exemption of $100,000 for a family of four to meet their ordinary living needs) so that the budget could be balanced automatically and even allow the government to pay off the growing unsustainable long-term debt. The poor would pay the first dollar over their exemption levels as would the stock fund operator and others now earning billions of dollars from capital gains, dividends, rents and other property incomes.

5. As a substitute for inheritance and gift taxes, a transfer tax should be imposed on the recipients whose holdings exceeded $1 million, thus encouraging the super-rich to spread out their monopoly-sized estates to all members of their family, friends, servants and workers who helped create their fortunes, teachers, health workers, police, other public servants, military veterans, artists, the poor and the disabled.

6. Eliminate all tax loopholes and subsidies.

These polices would result in rapid and substantial economic growth with the GDP rate in double digits. As a result of the stimulus effect, more REAL, decent paying job opportunities and further technological advancement would be created while simultaneously broadening private, individual ownership of FUTURE wealth-creating, income-generating productive capital assets, which would support second and primary incomes for ALL Americans.

In this new FUTURE economy, a citizen would start to benefit financially at birth and continue as he or she enters the economic world as a labor worker, to become increasingly a capital owner, whose productive capital assets contribute as a non-human worker earning a second income, and at some point to retire as a labor worker and continue to participate in production and to earn income as a capital owner until the day you die.

As we ALL contribute to the building of a FUTURE economy that can support general affluence for EVERY man, woman and child, at some point as the technologies of production further advance there will be far less need for human workers and productive capital asset ownership will become the primary income source for most people. As general affluence becomes more widespread people will be free and economically secure to pursue their creative desires and pleasures, further contributing to the cultural and societal development of the country.

Support the Agenda of The Just Third Way Movement at http://foreconomicjustice.org/?p=5797, http://www.cesj.org/resources/articles-index/the-just-third-way-basic-principles-of-economic-and-social-justice-by-norman-g-kurland/, http://www.cesj.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/jtw-graphicoverview-2013.pdf and http://www.cesj.org/resources/articles-index/the-just-third-way-a-new-vision-for-providing-hope-justice-and-economic-empowerment/.

Support Monetary Justice at http://capitalhomestead.org/page/monetary-justice

Support the Capital Homestead Act at http://www.cesj.org/homestead/index.htm and http://www.cesj.org/homestead/summary-cha.htm. See the full Act at http://cesj.org/homestead/strategies/national/cha-full.pdf

See "Financing Economic Growth With 'FUTURE SAVINGS': Solutions To Protect America From Economic Decline" at http://www.foreconomicjustice.org/9206/financing-future…economic-decline and "The Income Solution To Slow Private Sector Job Growth" at http://www.foreconomicjustice.org/9872/the-income-solut…ector-job-growth.

Greyeagle's picture
Greyeagle 3 years 34 weeks ago
#28

I have been an opponent of the TPP for various reasons, However, opting out entirely could hurt the USA. China was not part of it, opting out will give China a huge opportunity to build free trade agreements with the Asian countries we are opting out of. That will put the USA at a hugh disadvantage by our having to negotiate country by country against whatever China has to offer them. What leverage will we have unless it is more military domination to control the lost trade countries.

The TPP needed renegotiation, not killing.

Legend 3 years 34 weeks ago
#29

Trump says that they are going to use American made pipe for the pipelines. But the foreign made pipe is all ready there. So are they going to leave the foreign made pipe sitting in piles and use USA pipe to finish it? Or is this just a decoy statement? Any pipeline built in the USA should be USA pipe. Do not forget that Trumps hotels are made from foreign steel.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 3 years 34 weeks ago
#30

Wow! This thread was friggin awesome! Thanks to all for their effort and energy ... so much grist for thought.

DFMM's picture
DFMM 3 years 34 weeks ago
#31

Trump is not the 45Th.

Instead of the "45th" president, we should refer to him as the "45th*" president.

amoobrasil's picture
amoobrasil 3 years 34 weeks ago
#32

Uncle Ralph and Bob Smith certainly have their feet on the ground.

Gary Reber's thoughtful and knowledgeable posting deserves to be mulled over seriously. I am so very much impressed by it--especially his recognition of the need for those capable of doing so to grow capital for investment--, but I am nonplussed by his advocating a flat income tax. We prospered most when labor was strong, wages were higher, and the highest income-tax rate varied from a ridiculously low 70% under JFK to 93% under FDR, Truman, and Eisenhower. Furthermore, Gary does not touch on the need to grow demand by increasing purchasing power. Why invest in an enterprise if one's prospective clients lack the buying power to purchase one's goods or services?

Also, Gary states correctly the need to grow the GDP. Brazil has successfully grown its GDP to the point that it is ranked as high as fifth among the largest national economies in the world. However, 50% of Brazil's population lives in dire poverty and its people fear venturing into the streets because of violence. We must therefore use ancillary measurements like the GINI index ("And yet, with the overall growth of wealth, inequality remains a persistent issue, especially in the United States. For the first time in this report series, Allianz calculated each country's wealth Gini coefficient -- a measure of inequality in which 0 is perfect equality and 100 would mean perfect inequality, or one person owning all the wealth. It found that the U.S. had the most wealth inequality, with a score of 80.56, showing the most concentration of overall wealth in the hands of the proportionately fewest people."--http://fortune.com/2015/09/30/america-wealth-inequality/) and the happiness index (yep, it's real--the US ranks 13th among nations and promises to sink further if public policy continues in the direction of depriving more and more of our people of the resources we require to live in dignity).

If people really increased entrepreneurial investment in proportion to the growth of their wealth, one could make a convincing case against the graduated income tax. In fact, however, society needs the revenue for repairing and modernizing ALL its infrastructures, for high-quality public education for ALL its citizens and residents, for housing for the homeless, for feeding the hungry, for caring for and capacitating its disabled, for ensuring one lives in dignity in one's old age, etc.

Wealth concentrated in the hands of a few private citizens seldom pays for such desperately needed investments, services, and assistance. And if the wealthiest few are allowed to "donate" to political candidates, the benefactors tend to be more beholden to those "donors" than to their true constituents. We are foolish not to establish a rebuttable presumption that those "donations" are illegal bribes prosecutable under criminal law.

Thanks to 20th-century government investment in electrification, highways, health care, Social Security, etc., the US was at one time the envy of the world. Now we lag behind most--sometimes all--other OECD countries in many categories as a consequence of our concentrating national wealth in the hands of the few. The power of wealth is also allowing the privileged few to transform our republican democracy into a kleptocratic oligarchy (called aristocracy by the writers of the Constitution).

There is no societal need for billionaires. Such wealth far surpasses an owner's ability, the owner's children's abilities, the owner's grandchildren's abilities to spend and invest his fortune in our economy; for this reason, he hoards vast amounts--untaxed and uninvested--often in illegal "offshore" accounts. The policy of concentrating wealth in the hands of the weatlhiest few always results in failure to serve well every citizen--a fact recognized and excoriated by Teddy Roosevelt--please see http://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2011/12/teddy-roosevelts-attack-e....

The site www.nobillionaires.com makes a convincing case for outlawing billionaires in society: all income and wealth over $1B should be taxed at 100%.

We will be a more vital society, a sounder society--both economically and morally--if we base public policy on an admonishment by a prophet who seemed to have today's GOP in mind, i.e., Isaiah; see Isa. 10:1-2 ("Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed.") and on Matthew 25:31ff, which teaches that the highest priority of society must be lifting up those of us most in need--not further enriching billionaires.

ChristopehrCurrie's picture
ChristopehrCurrie 3 years 32 weeks ago
#33

Donald Trump's position against the TPP and NAFTA was one of the few positions that he could support with HONEST arguments. So Democrats should support him on this issue.

President Obam's confident boast that he would pass the TPP during last year's "lame duck" session of Congress was probably "the straw that broke the back" of Hillary Clinton's bid for President (she failed to take a stand AGAINST Obama's publicised lame-duck session TPP plan).

Trump has told us how he and the Republicans plan to steal this election: can we stop him and save our republic?

Thom plus logo Donald Trump became president by exploiting a loophole called the Electoral College. The majority of Americans did not want him or vote for him as president, but he's there anyway.

Now he's planning on using a different loophole, the 12th Amendment, to hang onto power.
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