New Republican Healthcare Plan Is So Bad That Even Republicans Don't Want It
By Thom Hartmann A...
Republicans inched closer to a deal on repealing Obamacare yesterday, as the House Freedom caucus OK'd a new version of the American Health Care Act which is actually worse than the one that couldn't pass Congress back in March.
This new version of Trumpcare is worse because it does away with the best parts of Obamacare: the part that bans insurance companies jacking up premiums on people with pre-existing conditions, and the part that requires every insurance plan to meet a minimum standard of coverage (for example, it has to cover things like hospital visits, birth control, and maternity care).
Under the new house Republican plan, states could simply opt out of those requirements.
GOP lawmakers, on the other hand, would be exempt from these changes.
In other words - they'd get to keep their current Obamacare plans with all the protections intact, while everyone else would be left with their crappy Trumpcare plans.
So it turns out that this Republican healthcare plan is so bad that even Republicans don't want to have to deal with it.
Shouldn't we just be going for single payer?
Comments
#2
Well, then give up your citizenship:
CIT 0302 - Application to Renounce Canadian Citizenship under Subsection 9(1)
Move down here, don't move to California or New York and pull yourself up from the bootstrap. I hate when Canadians blabber about how bad their medical benefits are, but do nothing when asked to renounce their citizenship. Oh BTW, your teacher's medical benefit? Guess who's paying for it...you? It's your union and the negotiation of taxpayer money that you are benefiting from...that's not single payer? Who is paying for your benefit? Taxpayers!
#3
OU812, What do you pay and what does your employer pay for your insurance? Both come out of your paycheck so you never actually receive it. When you have to start writing checks for it you realize how much it is. Just curious, what have Republicans done for teachers that makes you so right wing?
#4
I have yet to hear one concrete fact that will definitely stick in this Trump Care plan.
#5
Tim from LA, I'm not a Canadian,
Legend
You can't get past the victim mentality can you. I'm successful because of me, not because of what some politicians might do for me....do you think single payer is free? In Ontario, every sale is taxed at 15% to pay for health care. Plus those who have supplemental insurance ( pretty much required if you want prescription, dental, prime doctors, etc) costs about $200.00 month http://www.supplemental.ca/supplemental-insurance-costs/.
I pay 10.00 for a Dr visit, 10.00 for prescriptions, no deductibles. Sorry, you haven't convinced me to want single payer.
#6
There was nothing victim in the question that you did not answer and totally avoided. I di not say anything about the cost of Single Payer. I am sure that through your Union you probably get a good deal. But what is it? Answer the question.
#7
It is not just that Trumpcare is so bad it rests upon the foundation that Obamacare is a horribly flawed program lifted whole cloth from the Heritage Foundation. Obamcare is nothing more than the Health Insurance Companies Further Enrichment Act which only replaced really, really, horrible health insurance insurance plans with the not quite so really, really, horrible health insurance plans. As usual it was We, The Rabble who got the shaft while Wall Street continued to pile up enormous profits predicated upon our deaths, pain and suffering. I hope they repeal Obamacare because a broad swath of Americans need to be continuously reminded about how horrible our national health care system really is.* Also the repeal of Obamacare is nothing more than a general distraction, except for those for ill people who had not been able to afford the pitiful insurance had under it or those with preexisting conditions under the Root'n Toot'n Wall Street Gunfight At The Medical Corral that the GOP and Corporate Democrat Wings of the Wall Street Owned One Party Political System (WOOPS) wants to return us to. The experiment failed just like President Oscammer knew it would. Wake up America! None of the elected Federal Officials in Washington has our best interest at heart and until, if, when and as the once venerable Democratic Party returns to representing working Americans (probably not going to) the GOP will continue to own the White House and The Congress. After all Americans, when given the opportunity to, prefer political honestly over lies. As Americans we know the GOP wing is going to bat for the rich and their corporate team while whispering sweet nothings in our ears as they pick our pockets, kill our young people in their wars and solidify our new place among nations as a Third World Oligarchy with the world's most destructive military. Unfortunately, most Americans prefer the real thing over the cheap imitation offered by the Corporate Democrats. Thanks Bill, Hillary, Barrack and the rest of you Corporate Democrats. It's a bird, it's a plane! No it's the DEMONCRAT Party dead on the vine.
*We must also include Medicare, Medicaid and The Veterans Administration as the crucible where we are relegated to die.
#8
Why do we need a payer? Why not abandon retrospective payments and go to prospective payments like we do with education? Where I live there are four or five plans from which I could choose and they would then become responsible for my healthcare. That should save 30% of medical costs devoted to administering claims.
#9
Then you are one of the very lucky ones to have a health insurance plan that you believe will meet your needs when you need it the most (if a serious medical condition arises you will find out it doesn't). I am a 100% service connected ,totally and permanently disabled veteran who has been disabled for over thirty three years. I lived in utter poverty for 24 years until at last the VA deemed me to be totally disabled because of my time in Vietnam. I went from having a very inadequate private insurance program that could not begin to cover the complicated medical issues incurred by me while in the military to losing my coverage and being dependent upon welfare to take care of my medical needs and that of my young child. I would have to struggle for another 25 years until the VA fulfilled its obligation to me. I was a small business owner when my time in Vietnam caught up with me. Believe me you are deluding yourself if you think that you are "successful because of [you], not because of what some politician might do for [you]". I have owned several businesses and was successful when Vietnam took me out of the game and destroyed me financially. As someone who still struggles daily with my health I can tell you unequivocally that until, if, when and as it happens to you personally you do not have any real idea of what it is like for your health to disappear and leave you a shell of your former self unable to work and have any semblance of control over your own life. One can even be a caregiver to a loved one but until it is you who is severely compromised you have no rational basis to believe that life will allow you to "take care of yourself and be successful" beyond the next second or two. I hope you never have to experience any life altering issues with your health such as I and countless others have. If you already have then let me ask you this: When it comes to the basic human right of health care why are you being such a Horse's Petunia? Answer: Basic Me First Greed!
#11
Single payer? I'm for it! ...An enormous amount of money is spent on the idiotic amount of paperwork for each patient in a hospital or doctors office. It all goes away with single payer... Expand Medicare for all. They are at least 98% efficient and the system structure is already there... Get rid of the $118,500 cap. If you make money, you pay into Medicare... Put a tax on stock trading - a penny a trade. We would be flooded with money!
#12
Legend
Listen Asshole, I'm not your wife don't tell me to answer any questions. There are many millions of people in this country who are happy with there health insurance and don't want single payer. You've never experienced single payer, I have,and I didn't like it. I don't like being on a waiting list for medical services, I don't want to wait half a day to see a PA. I'm sorry you're poor, but that's not my fault, it's yours.
#13
General Detergent,
Thank you for your service.
And you want to put the same government you had to fight for 25 years for adequate health care, in charge of everybody's health care....I don't think that's smart.
#14
In a true democracy we would have had both the electric car and single-payer decades ago. Instead we have a system of democracy where the highest bidder gets his way, which has brought us unregulated monopoly capitalism...also known as Fascism.
The question remains: Will our corpse media inform the citizens of the Teapublican lawmaker's exemption hypocrisy? I doubt it seeing how the news media never mentions single-payer as the obvious solution the vast majority has both requested and desires..... so don't hold your breath?
Bachmann: I hope the hell the blue states do start to implement single-payer....I'd love to see how all those millions of red state Trump voters react to paying twice as much for their huge, great, smart, best ever, terrific plans.
#15
-10K
Implementation of single payer was attempted in Sanders home state of Vermont...the legislature said they couldn't afford so it was shelved.
#16
Republicans are morally incapable of comprehending the virtues of a true single-payer healthcare system because of a mental tic that compels them to evaluate healthcare within the biased framework provided by the private insurance industry, bloated leeches who suck blood out of the system without providing any medical service, not even aspirin (which is sorely needed when trying to decipher the small-print legalese in their thick "explanation of benefits" packets, "denial of claim" notices, and runaround appeal processes -- the primary subject matter in the bulk of their bad-news correspondence, which can quickly fill a file cabinet even for a minor illness).
Supplementals for this or that, plans A through Z, co-pays, deductibles, preconditions, high-risk pools, premiums, lifetime limits, yada, yada, yada -- the double-speak jargon of scams designed to maximize profits by denying coverage to as many sick people as possible -- all disappear under a highly efficient, government-run, not-for-profit, universal, single-payer system.
Because of blind allegiance to the right-wing economic ideologies that have given rise to concentrated wealth and monopoly corporatism, Americans per capita pay a lot more for a lot less compared to all other developed democracies with their differing but still much loved versions of single-payer. Despite these instructive, real-life successes, the true believers of unregulated, runaway capitalism in our upside down economy evidently would rather pay twice as much in expensive premiums to private monopolies than in much cheaper rates to the big bad "guvmunt."
Ignorance has a high price.
#17
No health care system, single payer or not, is going to work for very long unless there are also regulations limiting doctor, hospital, and drug fees. Unless the healthcare providers are 'reined in', any and all healthcare plans will fail. We need to attack the real problem of healthcare in our country - the outrageous fees charged by doctors, hospitals, and big pharma.
#18
That's right. Out-of-control greed does not just infect the insurance industry. Every for-profit monopoly in the medical industry also needs to be busted up and subjected to rigorous price controls. Comprehensive healthcare should be a right for everyone regardless of their ability to pay, not an earned privilege for the lucky few who can afford outrageous costs.
#19
#Ou812: In the first place, it is rude of you to come here and call us "washed up lefties". You mean you can't make your point without an ad hominem attack? Maybe I need to return the favor by calling you an ego-entric nut job. How does that feel?
In the second place, (Case #1) I was in Ontario and I got very sick. My friend took me to a doctor who was not only and M.D. but a surgeon; a specialist. I was seen immediately and there were no lines anywhere. Not only did he see me, he prescribed. The only cost to me was the cost of the medication because I wasn't a Canadian citizen, otherwise it would have been free. What would have cost me a fortune in the US only cost $3.69CAN. (Case #2) When I was living in NY state, there were two Canadians there that I got to know. One was from Ontario and the other from Ottowa. Even though they were on work visas and could see any local doctor they wanted, whenever they got sick they made the long trek back into Canada saying that Canadian medicine was the better deal. Considering all of the things I have seen going on in Amerian medicine-for-profit, I agree.
We have bloated pricing and laws that prohibit the US from negotiating with other countries like France for better pricing all so we can be held captive while they fleece the daylights out of us. The quality of health care professionals today is atrocious as we have a dumbed down educative system.
Several decades ago, Sen. Bill Frist, Sr., was instrumental in dismantling the hospital nursing schools. Back then, for 360 days a year for three solid years, nursing students were either (1) on the floor being supervised in their graduated, hands on, patient care, (2) in class learning about what they would be exposed to in clinic next, (3) or in their dorms studying or sleeping. Frist closed all of the teaching hospital nursing schools (BIG MISTAKE) and shifted nursing education to the colleges where there were two programs: the BSRN (Bachelor of Science) RN program for those going into hospital and facility admin, and the ADRN (Community College) RN program for ward nursing. Instead of *1080 DAYS* of concentrated and supervised hands on training, now we had clinic three times a week for four hours, or roughly *72 HOURS* of hands on training over a two year period, supplemented with classroom TrainX films that showed you what you were SUPPOSED to do when faced with certain health anomalies, and comic book formatted explanations of how to give an injection. (And if you were out sick and missed that TrainX film on a certain day, there was no make up available because the A/V equipment was on a schedule being used in other classrooms.)
In the state of Florida, our illustrious Governor, Rick Scott, closed all of the Community Colleges. So, many nurses now are turning to becoming Nursing Assistants and then getting their LPN (Licensed Practical Nurse), though I'm not sure from where, and then getting their RN licenses through >>correspondence courses<<. It's a true race to the bottom.
As for implementing health care on a state-by-state level, I'm totally against this. The day they announced "State's Rights" in this country, I knew we were heading for trouble. This is a Right-wing strategy to divide and conquer. While individual states should retain their individual flavor, we are the UNITED STATES of America. Where else do we become united except at the federal level? And I will tell you that before the NeoCons and the New World Order crowd got a hold of the government, I adored the fact that we had federal oversight. Whever I couldn't get something done at the state level, I could contact the federal government and the problem got solved tout de suite! Having state's rights is like having Right To Work; a real scam for We, the People.
As for giving up your plan for Single Payer, the fact that you are so dead set against it only tells me that you have been brainwashed. Who prefers to pay ever increasing premiums? Who advocates for bean counter middle men being sandwiched in between the doctors and the patients? Who in their right mind thinks that some bean counter with NO medical training should be deciding what procedures a patient should or should not have based on the cost instead of the need? Who in their right mind advocates for a system where the doctors are pulled away from being healers and are, instead, trained to be salesmen for the pharmaceutical companies and the testing labs? Who in their right mind thinks it is better for doctors to treat only symptoms instead of the root cause of any health care problem just to keep the profits rolling in for their corporate owners? Are you aware that the doctors are being TOLD what to prescribe according to what drugs the traveling pharmaceutical reps are pushing? Who in their right mind opts for a profit motivated health care system as opposed to an actual health care system? Who in their right mind wants decisions about health being made by businessmen who neither know or care anything about it? And who in their right mind wants doctors to have their first allegiance to be to the corporations instead of their patients' best interests?
The Single Payer system, will if nothing else get the profit motive out of medicine, and unless you, Ou812, are a shill for one of these medical corporations, then you will see the light of day. ***
PS I am a license health care professional with licensure in two states.
#20
Ou812 has no idea what she pays for health insurance. She has previously written that single payer works in Taiwan because they only have a population of 25 million and would not work in the US because of our 329 million. Of course she has not fact or reference for that nonsense. Just insults. LOL.
#21
Eric Rose,
Thank you for the fine examples of what occurs when Government becomes involved in health care. (The Bill Frost and Scott Walker examples).
I'm not going to call you a liar, but I will say you are mistaken about the example you gave of your health care experience in Canada. First, prescription drugs are not covered under any provincial plan in Canada. You need supplemental insurance to be covered for prescriptions. Second, if you are an out of Provence patient, you are treated the same way an out of Network patient is treated in the USA. When I was in BC, the hospital emergency room charged $300.00 before I could be seen. (A went to see a private physician first, she would not see me because I didn't live in BC, instead she suggested I go to an emergency room). Third, Canadian citizens cannot leave the country for more than 180 days/ year, or they will lose health care coverage.
Lastly, I'm not a shrill for any medical cooperation, I'm a teacher who is happy with his union negotiated health care plan. (By the way, millions of us feel the same way.)
Ps, I must have touched a nerve with the "washed up lefties" statement. No apologies, you are what you are.
#22
WE should have had Medicare for all a long time ago. Starting with the Powell Memo in 1971 the war on the working class has delayed that from happening. If Obama wasn't such a backstabber and a coeard and cut a deal with the Healthcare companys and than had a big health care meeting in2009 that was for all intents and purposes run by the Healthcare companys . A meeting wthat Singlepayer advocates couldn't even attend untill John Conyers forced his way in. I think that single payer advocates should advocate for a Socialized Medicine plan similar to Wales than the rightwingers will panic and settle for Medicare for all as a compromise which is what it is. As I have said before you don't reson or work with right-wingers you crush them and if they raise their head one inch offof the ground you crush them again.
#23
OU812 slipped. She is a he.
#24
OU812 slipped. She is a he.
#25
All this just points out the mess President Trump inherited. (remember that pathetic line you leftie/socialists used for eight long years?)
Legend
"OU812 slipped. She is a he."
Possibly a Transgender. We know you hate women are you also in the same boat with crossovers?
#26
#deepspace: "Republicans are morally incapable of comprehending the virtues of a true single-payer healthcare system because of a ment tic that compels them to evaluate healthcare within the biased framework provided by the private insurance industry...."
I couldn't agree with you more, deepspace. In fact, I agree with your whole thesis. The only thing I would add would be, "Republicans, and Right leaning people calling themselves Democrats and Progressives, ...."
Thanks for sharing.
#27
#Ou812: You are a TV rhetoric ditto head and represent the worst of humanity because you completely lack any ability to empathize, be humane, or listen to reason. The fact that you make yourself out to be the "winner" of every argument belies your Right-wing brainwashing. The fact that you wanted to call me a liar when I was simply relaying my experiences shows how shallow you are as a result of that brainwashing. It is plain for all to see that you have a brain that lies to you as a result of your brainwashing. You are one of these people who only listens to themselves when it is hurting other people. Who needs it or you if you are going to insist on being a stonewall PITA, (or is that Stonewall PITA)????
I also think you are one of these trolls who likes to be disruptive, cause arguments, and derail various lists. I had a list once and watched it come apart at the hands of someone like you. If you don't like what is going on here, then please go elsewhere. You're brand of myopic nastiness just isn't welcome here.
#28
Erin Rose
Two paragraphs of name calling, and not one word of constructive argument. In my opening statement I gave you "washed up lefties" the opportunity to convince me why single payer is the bettor choice over what I now have for health care. None of you have. Do you have any idea how many of us like our health care? You washed up lefties lost most of the rank and file union members in the last election. Single Payer is not popular among the Unions. Health care plans are one of the last true bargaining chips remaining in their arsenal. And you want to take that away.
It's not my "myopic nastiness" that isn't welcome here, it's my opinion that is so different than yours.
#29
Ou812 (#12): "Listen Asshole, I'm not your wife don't tell me to answer any questions. ... I'm sorry you're poor, but that's not my fault, it's yours." (#28): "It's not my "myopic nastiness" that isn't welcome here, it's my opinion that is so different than yours."
The subconscious and the conscious are one in the same mind. The outward reflects the inward through words and actions and reveals our inner state of being, whether or not we are completely aware of that particular "self" -- frightened and isolated -- at the conscious level.
Volumes have been written, of course, about how unconscious thoughts and feelings directly influence one's political stances, and so, naturally, marketing firms, media companies, and political campaigns shamelessly exploit voters' general lack of self awareness by targeting and manipulating the subconscious.
Some studies have more depth and honesty than others. "Conservatives Without Conscience" by John Dean is an insightful, self-reflective work written by a once-staunch conservative who was right in the middle, literally, of another failed Republican administration that stepped over the line. It shines a bright light into a very dark corner.
Sincere opinions, right or wrong, are always welcome here, one would hope. Opposing world views make for lively discussion and exposes the raging conflicts inherent in our collective human mind that have created a world of selfishness, greed, poverty, war, and misery on a planet that is, considering the astounding violence of star formation, a true miracle and paradise. Why did we allow this to happen? That's the deeper question.
ps: Ou812 (#28): "You washed up lefties lost most of the rank and file union members in the last election." Factually untrue! Please don't elevate yourself as the spokesperson for the majority. The Democrats may have lost a lot of the white, male union members because of the Trumped-up "fear of the other," but most other rank and file members (with accurate historical knowledge, anyway) know full well which party is their real enemy. I agree, though, that the Democratic Party strayed too far toward the corporate side of the equation and needs to get back to its roots to become a strong champion of labor once again.
#30
OU812 you may have a very good Union negotiated Health Care Plan. I always had Corporate Healthcare plans until I went private contracting at 62. Had to pay out of my pocket. But in todays world, many do not get Healthcare with a job. The fact that you will not share what you pay is interesting. It is no big deal. My last policy was about $1200, per month for me and my wife. I was on Cobra for 18 months, then the company put us on its plan without Cobra. Never went on Obamacare. I am now on Medicare, but wife is still on private plan.
Again I ask, as a teacher what has the Republican Party done for you to make you so right wing? Simple question.
#31
Is it really nesessary for "comments" to be personal?
#32
Legend
It's really none of your business what I pay, but I'll tell you this it's less than $200.00 per month for me and my spouse.
I don't know how many times I have to tell you, I don't have a victim mentality. If I fail, it's because of me, when I succeed it's because of me. I work hard, and get along with people who work hard.
#33
So you are going to ignore the part that your company, school distract or what ever pays? Because $200 per month is not the total cost.
#34
Legend are you really that dumb or is it an act.
If I were to opt out of the insurance, that money would not become part of my paycheck. No company, government or anyone pays the employee for benefits not taken.
#35
Where did I say opt out? Actually many companies do pay employees that opt out. Or at lease a partial payment as they get a tax write off on what they contribute towards your medical insurance. If husband and wife work they may take the best plan jointly and opt out on the other. But that is beside the point. Maybe you will understand the question if I put in in a formula. $200 per month + employer contribution = your total monthly healthcare insurance payment. What is your employer contribution?
#36
Legend
Whats your point
I work for Carroll County Public Schools, you can reach them at 410 751 3000. Im not willing to give out the information. Again, what is your point?
#37
Deepspace
You may want to read these two articles before you tell me I'm wrong about union support for President Trump:
Donald Trump gets Regan-like support from Union households.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/10/donald-trump-g...
Teacher Unions smarting after many members vote for Trump
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/11/23/election-unions-teachers-...
#38
My point is, once you realize how much you actually pay for insurance you would be by far better off if the USA had single payer. It works very well in the other industrialized countries. Right now they want to cut it back as much as possible.
Unions are all about brotherhood and sticking together for a common cause. So going against your Union Endorsements is totally self defeating. How do you like the new tax plan?
#39
Legend,
Please list the countries that have single payer, to my knowledge there is only 1, Taiwan. Please don't tell me Canada, Canada has individual plans in each provience along with supplemental insurance. Don't tell me the United Kingdom, also many supplemental plans. As I explained to you, we actually pay under $200.00/ month for two. Under any single payer that mirrors the OHIP plan, we would pay twice that for supplemental, in addition we would have less coverage.
You washed up lefties amaze me, there is no new tax plan, only a proposal. You guys would rather hold your breath and say NO, than participate in developing a plan...
#40
I call BS on your "we actually pay under $200.00/ month for two". That maybe what you pay for a very good union negotiated plan but your school district is probably paying at least a thousand or more. The fact that you refuse to divulge that figure is highly suspect. You do not get a plan in the USA for $200. .......... If you cannot figure out what else is paid, check on what COBRA would cost you. That basically will tell you the real cost of your insurance. The fact that you cannot figure this out only worries me to the fact that you are "teaching" our young.
#41
Deepspace:
You write well for someone who's not too bright. You sentences flow, almost poetically, but they lack substance. They are like a large beautiful balloon, nice to behold, but stick a pin in and it all disapears. I'm not trying argue with you. I'm giving you advice. I work with teachers, and they are not interested in any of jive you washed up lefties promote. I can tell you to look both ways before crossing the street. It's up too you whether you'll follow the advice.
#42
Ou812 (#37),
Again, your flippant declaration (#28) that, "You washed up lefties lost most of the rank and file union members in the last election." is factually untrue.
Nationally, most union rank and file and most eligible family members in union households voted for Democrats, assuming that's who you mean with your threadbare, oft-repeated taunt, "washed up lefties." Even the two linked articles that you disingenuously cited, which are aligned with virtually every other nonpartisan statistical analysis, clearly show that you are wrong. Yes, union support for Democrats has slipped alarmingly, and yes, Democratic leadership needs to focus a lot more on the hard-working Americans who originally built the party; nobody can honestly deny those sad truths.
However, do not conflate weaker numbers to mean that Democrats lost "most" of the union demographic and then seriously expect such a gross misstatement of fact to fly, especially on this blog. "Most" union members in this country, along with their families, still vote for the traditional "party of the workers," as they have from time immemorial. That's because "most" of them are not stupid enough to throw in with the "party of the rich," which from time immemorial has sought to destroy the union movement root and branch and to support corporate abuse of non-union workers (and paper-tiger "unions") with low wages, anemic benefits, long hours, and dangerous working environments.
Sorry to pile on, but you also appear to be missing, dodging, and/or obscuring legend's (and other's) well-taken points on a regular basis. It's an obvious pattern. Gratuitously spinning "alternative facts" for shits and giggles might be your game as a right-wing troll on a liberal site who admires the arrogance and irreverence of Imus, but it would be a tad more convincing if you could display a modicum of intellectual honesty.
One must assume, as a teacher, such targeted obfuscation is not by accident. Either your reading comprehension is slipping and it might be time to fully retire for the sake of your students, or you are deliberately painting a false picture of reality by picking and choosing out-of-context factoids that seemingly, at first glance, lend support to your political viewpoints while disregarding the hard facts that don't.
"We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave them kids alone
Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall." --PF
#43
Legend:
I could care less what you believe. I know what I pay for health insurance...I don't speak for the school system, I gave you their phone number if you want to find out what they pay call them. Maybe you can convince them to support single payer.....one more thing the school system I work for is one of the top ten school systems in the USA.
#44
Ou812 (#41):
Again, speak for yourself and your minority of like-minded, right-wing ideologues, not the majority of blue-collar and white-collar union members. I belong to a different, more powerful union but happen to know and have also worked with a lot of union teachers, who would strongly disagree with your slanted, right-of-center political assessments.
As far as taking your highly questionable advice, I would look up to verify the truth if you said the sky was blue. Don't flatter yourself.
#45
May I suggest that Ou812 has a bit if insight that Mr. Ed lacks?
Donald Trump is President of the United States and Hillary Clinton is not. More than a few crossed over from the Democrat party to vote Republican.
#46
"one more thing the school system I work for is one of the top ten school systems in the USA." OU812 post 43
https://www.zillow.com/md/districts/carroll-county-public-schools-440107/
#47
Deepspace @44
Amazing, with all your God like pronouncements, I would think you have to look down to see the sky:).
#48
At least you're beginning to understand your place in the hierarchy of the cosmos. Now be gone, little troll; I grow weary of your presence.
#49
@#45:
Focus, Granny, focus! Your mind is wandering again, missing the point and off topic. Pull those bruised fingertips away from that sweaty keyboard, take some deep breaths to oxygenate the brain, and try to concentrate.
Nobody is contesting your non sequitur. Of course enough flighty Dems, Hillary haters, and disillusioned Bernie-crats crossed over (or sat out) and hurt Clinton's numbers; although, that's only one of the many, many reasons -- as you should well know, during brief interludes of lucidity anyway.
Originally, I was merely trying to pin down Teach the Troll's flagrant misstatement of fact about a single demographic: the overall union vote. It was like trying to nail jello to the wall. All evidence in this thread points to a deliberate and disingenuous attempt to misinform and confuse, as a good little troll is wont to do. Weaving and dodging his way through several disjointed posts, Ou812 refused to acknowledge or apologize for such a simple and obvious untruth.
Good god -- if this is any indication, one hour of "Michelle Bachmann's" beguiling lectures must be interminable for "his" hapless students! Hopefully, it's not a mandatory course.
#50
Deepspace:
How do you write so many words and mange to say nothing. Is that a requirement to be a washed up lefty? Lots and lots of Rhetoric, no substance. It's the washed up lefty mantra.
Here's another article for you to deny:
Union support for Donald Trump gives big labor a chance to catch up.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/feb/6/union-support-for-donald-...
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At Mondragon - both the mountain and the cooperative city - in Spain (written about in "Threshold" book)
From Screwed:
"I think many of us recognize that for all but the wealthiest, life in America is getting increasingly hard. Screwed explores why, showing how this is no accidental process, but rather the product of conscious political choices, choices we can change with enough courage and commitment. Like all of Thom’s great work, it helps show us the way forward."
From Screwed:
"Thom Hartmann’s book explains in simple language and with concrete research the details of the Neo-con’s war against the American middle class. It proves what many have intuited and serves to remind us that without a healthy, employed, and vital middle class, America is no more than the richest Third World country on the planet."
From The Thom Hartmann Reader:
"Right through the worst of the Bush years and into the present, Thom Hartmann has been one of the very few voices constantly willing to tell the truth. Rank him up there with Jon Stewart, Bill Moyers, and Paul Krugman for having the sheer persistent courage of his convictions."
I don't know why you washed up lefties think single payer is the solution. I lived in Ontario for 6 years under the OHIP program (Ontario Health Insurance Plan). Canada does not have a nationwide single payer program, each provience has a program. The OHIP program is actually a two tier program. Those with supplemental insurance have the best service. Those without supplemental insurance are relegated to clinics where they may or may not be seen by a MD. Plus, appointments are rare, you will most likely spend half a day waiting to be seen.
If your mind is so set on a single payer system, why don't you implement it on the state level. Just like it's done in Canada.
I personally don't want single payer. I'm covered by a medical plan through work ( Public Schools). I don't know any Teachers who want to give up the plan we have for single payer.
I'll give you a chance, Convince me to give up my plan for single payer.