With 52 votes and reconciliation they can do what they want. After the Congress vote it is obvious that they have no care about how many die, go bankrupt or lose health insurance. It is all about making the 1% wealthier. Note that I say wealthier and not wealthy. They are all ready insanely rich.

Todays shooting was terrible. The worse part was when I heard it was a Bernie supporter. A person with a criminal background of violence. How did he get these weapons that are only meant for killing people. Loose gun laws. The worse report on it that I saw was when a news announcer said "we do not even know if he has mental issues". Anyone that is firing a semi automatic weapon in a park at people has "mental issues". The next worse thing I saw was Newt Ginrich and other Republicans blaming it on the left. Did Democrats blame the right when Gabby Giffords was shot? No it was a mental nut case.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/politics/newt-gingrich-baseball-shooting/i...

Today's shooting is probably just the first of many to follow. 'We The People' are fed up with Repugnican kowtowing to the rich and spiting on the poor. There are many who are willing, and able, to resort to violence. But then, isn't that how this country was created?

Sadly, Repugnicans are never going to recognize the cause of the fury of 'We The People'; they'll just double-down on violating our Constitutional rights and destroying Democracy.

R.I.P. U.S.A.

Why arn't the Dems doing more? Could they be using the Repub tactic of letting the healt care fail and then reap big in 2018?

I am madder than hell about how the Republican Senate is handling the health care bill. They have forgotten that they work for us, not the other way around. I think the whole damn bunch of them should be impeached, especially Mitch McConnell.

You know that democracy is dead in this country when the majority party in Congress consistently ignores the voice of the people and places party ideology ahead of the will of the people. Only 17% of the population supports the so-called Republican health care bill. Why aren't these white males listening to We the People? We all know that it is because they are bought and owned by the 1%. It is time for Bernie's nonviolent revolution. It is time to take to the streets and demand change and it is time for a general strike.

Trump has got to go. Congress needs to be swept clean. The billionaire class needs to pay their fair share in taxes.

We need to unite the underprivileged in this country -- black, white, poor, laborers, etc. -- to fight for their rights and to check and reign in the power of the overprivileged.

The Democratic Party feeds from the same corporate trough as the Republicans. The Democratic Party Establishment is presently thinking only about the hay they can make in 2018 if they let the wheels come off (of healthcare, for example). They are ALL a bunch of professional politicians beholden to the billionaire class. None of these Jackasses gives a damn about the 99%. To draw distinctions between the two parties is playing right into the hands of the oligarchy. Divide and conquer.

Passing this bill will be the signal flare to start the New American Revolution!

Revolution takes organization on a massive scale. Don't get me wrong, I am all for revolution. I hope it would be from the Democrates, but don't hold your breath. They get reelection money from the wealthy. Greed has no boundaries as tRump has clearly demonstrated and his monster administration shows all of use.

Frankly, I hope they are successful in getting rid of the whole thing. This will finally take us off of health (scam) INSURANCE, and then people will finally have to face what is going on in this country. We will go through an awful period, but in the end, Single Payer/Medicare For All, administered by the VA will emerge as the National Health Care System. Then all we have to do is keep them from sabotaging it. We need to get off BANKSTER insurances; money for nothing and their kicks for free. When do we wake up???!

Well written Deepspace. This guy had a criminal history that included violence yet still had semi automatic weapons and lots of ammo. He obviously had mental issues. The press will be lethargic on reporting how he got the guns. Probably legally with the loose laws that the Republicans spread through out the country. Now that a Republican is a victim of gun violence will things change? I give very little chance.

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-set-overturn-guns-mental-health-regulation...

Thom has a chance today to call for a dial down of the rhetoric he and dozens of members of the media, pseudo celebrities, politicians, and others have been pushing since the election. This hatred is boiling over and yesterday was a classic example of an individual that obviously listened to, absorbed and followed up on with an attack on republicans.

You all can look the other way, but the vile things that have been said here by Mr. Ed, the 10k runner, birdbrain, just to name a very few, with the king of all crazies calling for the Vice President to be shot,

Exhibit A:

"stecoop01 • 4 weeks 14 hours ago (5/16/2017)

#3

As bad as Trump IS, Pence would be even worse. Why? Because Pence knows what he's doing, and is far better at the game of politics than Trump could ever dream of being.

So, impeach Trump, shoot Pence."

Thom, I will listen to the start of todays show to see if you have regained your composure, put the fact that this looney tuner shooter was a full blown Bernie supporter with talking points on his Facebook page that are a mirror image of what you put out every day. Don't blame guns, mental issues, or anything but a lack of self reflection and your past behavior.

Hopefully you and your "comrades" on the left and right will tone it down for the betterment of all.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gabby-giffords-shooting-response-twi...

The fact is that this nation has grown up with gun ownership interwoven into the tapestry of our society. Guns will not be disappearing anytime soon, get used to it.

This is also a violent society, as pointed out by others here. How else can we permit our leaders to wage perpetual war against "the brown people" of the world with such impunity? We get off on video clips of our high tech weaponry wreaking havoc upon everything from "enemy" bunkers to wedding parties (oops, sorry) fed to us from our mainstream media daily. We are a bloodthirsty lot.

As to the carnage inflicted daily by guns on the people of this country, if deepspace's number is correct, That calculates to be .03% of this country's population annually. To put this into perspective, what percentage of the people here will be dying from lack of adequate health care if the establishment has its way? Guns, my friends, are the red herring of our time.

To quote Legend above "more guns = more violence". I'm sorry, but that logic just won't fly. You could reasonably say that "guns in the hands of more irrational people = more violence", but until we figure out a way to effectively limit access to guns by "irrational" or "unstable" people without a blanket ban on gun ownership, including confiscation, this is simply a pipe dream and ain't gonna happen. In addition, if it could be implemented, it raises the specter of the State being given the power to determine who is rational. I think this is a much more frightening concept than the idea that .03% of the population could be injured by a gun in a given year.

And finally, I submit that posession of a gun affords a certain measure of utility to it's owner in much the same way that automobile ownership does, in that each piece of hardware has its use in the hands of a responsible individual yet carries the inherent risk of lethal consequences if used neglegently. In my case, I live in rural North Idaho. I would hazzard a guess that behind the door of 90% of the residences in this area there lies a loaded gun and a person that knows how to use it. Violent crime is very low in this area. One aspect of this is that a would-be criminal knows that he stands a very good chance of ending up on the wrong end of a gun if he tries anything. I'll take my chances here (with my guns) over my odds in a metropolitan area, with its police "protecdtion", any day.

Please people, let's strive to think critically about this. The Left Establishment and media have managed to convince a segment of society that "guns" is the root cause of domestic violence. The real root cause lies in the violent nature of our society which has pervaded it since the founding of this nation. As a reasonably rational individual I feel it necessary to bear arms for my own self defence against all the true "crazies" out there.

Think of it as "trickle-up austerity." Ending actual welfare aid gave the poor the incentice to get unpoor, and ending the ACA will give people the incentive to avoid illness and injury. If Medicaid is ended for the elderly poor and the disabled, people will eventually stop getting old or disabled, and that's a good thing. Right?

Legend: You state "We lived for a long time without semi automatic weapons. It is sad that Outback lives in such a mental state of paranoia."

I believe it's true that we lived for a very long time without firearms, period. Before that, it was the male with the stoutest phisique who could wield the heaviest club. The fact is that times have changed, for better or worse, and the most formidable weapon of today (generally accessible) is the semi automati assault rifle. If things were allowed to progress unchecked it would be the fully automatic machine gun or the RPG (although properly vetted and licensed civilians in this country can legally posess even these). I wouldn't disagree that a sensible level of control is necessary to ensure that these even more deadly weapons won't proliferate, but surely you can see that, once made available, there will be no recall of the semi automatic weapon short of confiscation.

I don't feel in the least paranoid, Legend. Perhaps it's you and your like minded pals that are freaked out by the mere existance of these weapons and the constant drumbeat by the media to sensationalize every incident of gun related violence even though these are statistically insignificant within a world population approaching seven billion. The carnage inflicted upon humanity by the power brokers absolutely towers above anything perpetrated by deranged individuals bearing semi automatic weapons. You need to come to grips with the reality that the world has become a more dangerous place in our time. It's not going to change with your wishful thinking or characterizing gun owners such as myself as being "paranoid".

And in a very worst case scenario (which I hope will never come to pass) you may be ultimately grateful to the large number of rational individuals in this country that have chosen to arm themselves with something more than pitch forks.

C8: Most US gun sales are offshore. It's a huge industry with tons of money (political influence) to throw around. It isn't just the NRA. Controlling access to guns within our borders is a political issue that is complex, given our Second Amendment history. The only way to achieve it would be through ratcheting up the Police State (see Hitler's Germany, 1939). Not likely to happen here.

DianeWorld; Thom has never -- not once -- encouraged violence in any way, shape, or form! Neither have I, nor have the clear majority of other liberals and progressives who post here. For you to insinuate otherwise is a despicable lie of the worst kind. You should apologize immediately to retain what little credibility you might still enjoy on this blog!

Picking out the rare exceptions does not excuse the overall dishonesty of your extremist partisan point that liberals and progressive as a group subscribe to inherently violent ideologies. Those of us who are loudly advocating for peaceful revolution, yet strongly-worded resistance, against truly regressive policies and attitudes, which are furthering the cause of a greedy, billionaire-style fascistic government and the hugely destructive global empire-building of our military-industrial-congressional complex and surveillance state -- hard realities that are eroding the foundations of democracy everywhere -- does not mean we are advocating for violent solutions.

To name a few off the top of my head, I would refer you to the teachings of your own Jesus Christ, as well as Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., Jiddu Krishnamurti, and so many others in history, who have devoted their lives to champion peaceful resistance to the status quo -- altering the destructive course of humanity through a deeper awareness of the deep-seated conflict existing in both our collective and individual minds.

You say that you "listen" to Thom, but you obviously don't. Maybe it's time that you do...

Outback: The numbers were from the CDC:

https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-by-the-numbers/

I was born and raised in a very rural area, also own guns, and am quite familiar with the culture. Having gone through an extensive hunter's safety course at an early age and later having gone through several advanced combat infantry courses in the Army, I am very comfortable around weapons and still greatly enjoy target practicing. Although I lost my taste for hunting long ago, I still carry a modified pistol-grip, short-barrel, pump 12 gauge with solid slugs, plus a 45 auto, whenever I hike in bear country. And, yes, I carry for self defense. What bothers me, however, are those with insufficient training and/or ill intent, who can so easily get their shaky trigger fingers and sweaty palms on so much firepower on a whim.

You make valid points, but I think it's misleading to base arguments solely on percentages of the population as a whole. It's too generalized. You could justify inaction in solving any problem by using too broad of a statistical analysis, such as the deaths and maiming from elective wars of aggression in the Middle East, the carnage on our highways, people poisoned by the food they eat, the water they drink, the air they breathe, etc.

A single life is no less valid because it is only a tiny percent of the entire population. Tell an inner city mom in Chicago that her dead black son was only part of .03%, and that easy access to guns in her hood are just the facts of life she must learn to live with as she tries to raise her remaining children in the free-for-all war zones of our cities.

Of course it is unrealistic to expect to solve every problem completely, but at least we can take reasonable steps to intervene and reduce the butchery and bloodshed as much as possible. Contrary to conventional wisdom, there is no big, bad "Left Establishment." (Traditionally, the so-called "left" in America is the Communist Party, which is probably less than a thousand individuals.) Like it or not, polling people outside the context of their political identities consistently demonstrates that the mainstream majority of Americans agree with liberal and progressive issues and policies more than they do with those of the right.

One of those issues is gun control. Never in its history has the Democratic Party called for "gittin rid a guns." To score political points with low-information voters, that's the red herring Republicans pin on anyone who dares to promote feasible and rational gun-control measures.

Here are but a few: strenuously enforce the laws already on the books; close gun-show loopholes that allow straw purchases, whereby criminal gangs are able to acquire large quantities of weapons; register guns and require proficiency testing for licensing and insurance -- as we do with automobiles, which can also kill people -- improve the cross-checking system to weed out those with a history of violent behavior, mental illness, or crimes involving guns; match up the "no-fly list" with a "no-gun list" so that terrorists can't take advantage of our lax laws; get weapons of war off the streets -- not the ones used for hunting, home defense, recreational target shooting, or licensed collections, but those designed exclusively to rapidly kill as many people as possible, much like the laws banning machine guns, grenades, bazookas, etc.; create gun-free zones that address the specific concerns of individual communities, for which the affected citizens may vote, including schools, churches, playgrounds, theaters, public buildings, shopping centers, etc. -- no one size fits all. (People in inner cities have different concerns than people in rural northern Idaho); require programmable, high-tech trigger locks, such as thumbprints, which can be quickly overridden by only those authorized to use the weapon.

None of these measures are unreasonable or unworkable; yet, all of them are hysterically opposed by Republicans, the gun industry, the NRA, and their lobbyists. Again, it's not the big, bad "guvmunt" who would determine who is qualified to possess weaponry on civilian streets, it is We the People utilizing intelligent solutions in conjunction with law enforcement and mental health professionals, science and technology, private industry and public institutions, objective studies and comprehensive knowledge, non-partisan cooperation and compromise, but, most of all, a solid foundation of morality and social consciousness. Why is America the only modern country that can't figure this out?

As you have indicated, people in our country because of its history will always be greatly divided on the right to bear arms and what exactly that means. Nevertheless, it is greatly appreciated that you zeroed in on the crux of the matter. It is all too true that "the real root cause lies in the violent nature of our society," which I would extend to include all forms of violence in the thoughts, words, and deeds of everyone on the planet. We are a violent people who have created a culture of violence. That is an undeniable fact that really should be at the center of any argument.

Without a doubt, Homo sapiens are a gratuitously violent species by nature -- a trait we share with virtually no other higher mammals, except chimpanzees and perhaps a few other hominids -- but evolution never stops. In fact, suggested by recent findings, archeologists and anthropologists strongly suspect that modern humans survived a "genetic bottleneck" about 70,000 years, where our population dwindled to only 3,000 to 10,000 individuals, by cooperating and supporting one another, rather than by fighting and killing until the strongest survived. Perhaps it is time to make the next great leap in consciousness -- for our continued survival into a problematic future exacerbated by overpopulation.

1. The Republicans =reeeeeeeally= don't give a tinker's damn about =any=one except the 0.1%. The rest of us can go to hell, period, full stop. The fact that soooo many of the 99% =still= vote for these unAmerican bastards is a point of high hilarity for them.

2. I =really= wish more people knew about how and why we got the 2nd Amendment in the first place. Of course, at -this- point, far, -far- too many Americans simply wouldn't care .. and -that- is a serious problem in itself!