Berniecare finally arrives
Conservatives hate bureaucracy.
So when will they get behind Bernie Sanders' single-payer plan, which would do away with the paper-pushing waste in our healthcare system once and for all?
Berniecare is finally here.
On Wednesday afternoon Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders officially unveiled his plan for single payer healthcare, saying it was the start of a long fight to end the international shame that is our current healthcare system.
Today, we begin the long and difficult struggle to end the international disgrace of the United States, our great nation, being the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care to all of our people. As proud Americans, our job is to lead the world on health care, not to be woefully behind every other major country."
Bernie's plan -- the so-called Medicare for All Act of 2017 -- would gradually phase every single American into the existing Medicare program over a four year period.
From that point onwards, healthcare would be free -- I repeat, free! - for everyone.
The would be virtually no co-pays - no premiums - no deductibles - no nothing.
Oh yeah - and unlike Obamacare - Berniecare would cover going to the dentist and the eye doctor.
It would also repeal the Hyde Amendment, which bars federal funds from being used to pay for abortions.
Isn't this real choice?
Single-payer gives people the ability to go to whatever doctor they want whenever they want without worrying about whether they'll go bankrupt.
Conservatives are all about repealing Obamacare.
So, let's do it and replace it with Medicare for all!
No, Tom, it is not free.
Don't start out making the mistake of destroying the credibility of Berniecare by calling it free. It must be paid for and can be done with payroll deduction, same as Medicare, and by a tax on Wall Street financial transactions. A fraction of a percentage point would pay for what is needed by the very people who do not pay their fair share now, the billionaire Wall Street Investors who never pay any tax on their financial transactions.
If we must pay a tax on Babies' new pair of shoes, financial purchases should also pay a tax to cover the cost of Medicare for all and everyone would benefit.
FREE!!! Holy Tax Bill Batman!!! Nothing is FREE. Besides the cost for taxpayers, (the middle class and the rest upwards....there will be a cost to services...ie. Canada, England, etc.
Sure, nice for those countries with a majority of homo-genous citizens of less than 5 - 10 million, but for 300+ million and growing diverse countries such as the USA, I think not! While I do, as a concept, like the medicare for all, it seems a bit late in our game to expect this to happen in 48 months.....the loonies on the far left and far right can't get a simple change to DACA and immigration done in a reasonable time frame. To expect our "humble servants" to come together in as little as 4 years is a pipe dream. I think it will come to pass but not for at least two generations especially given the "cupcake" millienals sense of work ethic and intelligence. But, I could be wrong! Frankly, once the Trillions and Trillions of dollars necessary to make this happen are understood, the battle cry will be "Tax Them" not "ME". Also, we can say bye bye to cutting edge medical research, there won't be any incentive dollars left for that either. Hate to be pragmatic, but reality is reality. Medicare for All is anything BUT FREE!!! Third World USA coming soon to your shrinking payroll and savings......Pray for us all!
Sounds great to me. As a Canadian I will look forward to all the great doctors that left here to go down to the US Because of poor pay from public healthcare will come back. Go Bernie.
Ok you washed up lefties, since you’re into political masterbaution, you may as we’ll add the following to your wish list.
Big Rock Candy MountainHarry McClintock
One evening as the sun went down
And the jungle fire was burning,
Down the track came a hobo hiking,
And he said, "Boys, I'm not turning
I'm headed for a land that's far away
Besides the crystal fountains
So come with me, we'll go and see
The Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains,
There's a land that's fair and bright,
Where the handouts grow on bushes
And you sleep out every night
Where the boxcars all are empty
And the sun shines every day
On the birds and the bees
And the cigarette trees
The lemonade springs
Where the bluebird sings
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
All the cops have wooden legs
And the bulldogs all have rubber teeth
And the hens lay soft-boiled eggs
The farmers' trees are full of fruit
And the barns are full of hay
Oh I'm bound to go
Where there ain't no snow
Where the rain don't fall
The wind don't blow
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
You never change your socks
And the little streams of alcohol
Come trickling down the rocks
The brakemen have to tip their hats
And the railroad bulls are blind
There's a lake of stew
And of whiskey, too
You can paddle all around 'em
In a big canoe
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains,
The jails are made of tin
And you can walk right out again,
As soon as you are in
There ain't no short-handled shovels,
No axes, saws or picks,
I'ma goin' to stay
Where you sleep all day,
Where they hung the Turk
That invented work
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
I'll see you all this coming Fall
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains"
Songwriters: HARRY MCCLINTOCK, STERLING SHERWIN© Peermusic Publishing
How have so many of us been bamboozled by the government agencies, the public schools, where we spent so many hours in boredom? We drank chlorine water from the water fountains., dumbing us down, joined the military and were injected with shots , making many of us sick. We can't tell which foods in the supermarket are genetically modified... and when we are given perscriptions in later life, we become sicker....how has this happened to so many millions of people? Hooray for Bernie Sanders!
Has a lot of potential, as long as all government controls are removed and made a separate section of the government, to prevent the corruption that permanents the corrupt government today! maybe even placed under the social security administration!
I disagree with calling it free. It will require funding buy should be similar to social security.
Single payer is great. ONE PROBLEM: The GOP doesn't want us to have any extra money. They want to give it to the insurance company that does nothing but take your money and deny you care so you die.. A double whammy! Probably won't happen now but don't be discouraged.. be like the Republicans - never giving up when you lose.. I certainly hope this message of the single payer savings will get to every ear.. Also.. What the heck are the rest of the Democrats doing? They should all be preaching the same idea and stand behind Bernie!
Why don't you just do it state by state. Like Canada. Lefty California, the 5th largest economy in the world could easily pass it. When the rest of the nation sees how great it is they will follow.
I agree with Kend on this...State by State has a better chance of passing. Colorado and California, followed by Washington, Oregon and others...by the time a dozen of so have signed on the Country as a whole will follow suit.
Bernie care works, Medicare for all works, FREE doesn't work. I have Medicare and between the SS deduct and the monthly premium paid to Kaiser, I'm around $300/mo. Not much in the grand scheme of things.
Tom hartmann while you have been counseled at least once on the air about the importance of words, you obviously have not yet figured it out. Most have nailed your error, you do success of Medicare for all a disservice calling it free, it will not be "free". Some will pay less, a few the #billionaireclass will pay more in taxes, which is as it should be.
At least ten years ago I used to listen to you with your Friday lunch with Bernie. He spoke then about Medicae Part E, E meaning everyone. It is a great idea and makes sense. The Republicans in Congress will never pass such a sensible law. Health insurance companies are what drives up the cost of medical care in our country. Economists call the insertion of health insurance companies "friction" in the system. The purpose of health insurance companies is to make profits for the shareholders, they are not at all interested in the quality of health of the people they cover. If they could they would use the notion of preexisting conditions to make it impossible to ever receive reimbursement for medical expenses. In order for health insurance companies to thrive they must make it difficult for a sick person to receive reimbursement. They pay for sales representatives, claims adjusters, and private investigators that drain revenue that does not go toward paying for health services to covered people. About one-third of premiums go toward expenses and profits, that is billions of dollars each year that do not help sick or injured people. It is a scam.
I don't expect the Republicans to pass Bernie Sanders idea, they hate the idea of everyone getting medical services, dental services, and eye care services. They are ideologically opposed to such a way of life. They prefer having a system where those with money can get health care and those without money can get along however they can. It is how they see the world.
Get over it!
Health care is not free
However, in enlightened societies it is at the point of use
Can anyone get a grasp of that notion?
Just seeing how much Berniecare irritates conservatives, makes me feel better already. It's a miracle!!!
Kend...give me a list of those doctors names..don't try to pull that foxaganda crap on us.
C'mon Thom, single-payer is not free, which is fine, but let's be clear, it would be funded with progressive taxation which should also apply to local government...in other words, end property taxes and opt for income tax to fund schools and county programs. Property tax is a regressive form of taxation. I'll always gladly pay my fair share based on income.
The income tax the average citizen would pay for single-payer is a fraction of what they would end up paying for private for profit premiums..that's what you need to write about Thom...Bernie sure as hell will get communicate the truth. OFFENSE BABY!
Bachmann...are you drunk or on opioids or something?
Yup, BernieCare has really got the trolls' hemorrhoids a-itching now. Love it! The best part is their shameless display of ignorance for all the world to behold, like they're proud of it.
Of course Thom didn't mean the whole system would be free. He should have worded that more clearly to deny the trolls their expected, stark-raving-mad retorts, like he usually does on his program. But that's not the issue as much as the right-wing, conditioned, almost unconscious, sentence-of-death response: "Duh, nuttin's free; somebody's gotta pay -- OMG, the taxpayers, payin' the guvmut! Oh, the humanity..."
Yes, that's the whole point! Jaysus, the waste of breath! After eight years of crying like they sh*t their diapers, you'd think they'd understand grade school level, Healthcare 101 by now.
Okay listen up, Fux News geniuses, one more time: The "free" is at the point of care for the individual patient, which is paid for by all of us taxpayers together -- no private premiums, no deductibles, no co-pays, no pre-conditions, no insurance companies, no stacks of denials, no CEO Leer Jets with golden faucets, none of that corporate ripoff crap. For half the cost (or less) of the crooked deals the billionaires dole out, the people can run their own damn health program and receive much better care from cradle to grave.
The whole world has already figured this out long ago. Only in Stupid F*cking Idiot Land do people still get sick and/or die needlessly and/or have their estates ripped away from their families just because they were financially foolish enough to get sick.
Mmm ...need some extra tax money for sick citizens ...oh yeah, how about quit fighting Stupid F*cking Idiot wars?
No. We should not have Berniecare because i want to go to school, become a doctor, and get fabulously wealthy. 200k minimum. My wife will work in the insurance industry and we will make it big. If you cant afford healthcare don't look for freebies get a job, go to school; pull up your bootstraps!
now pass that corndog!
#18 Right on deepspace. It's such a simple concept. "Share the load." Like paying school taxes when you have no kids. Paying taxes towards infrastructure repair when you don't drive. Police to keep you safe when you never feel threatened. And on and on. Why separate health care from all of that? Seems just as important.
Nearly 10 percent of doctors trained in Canada work in USABY HEIDI ULRICHSEN One in nine doctors trained in Canada are practising medicine in the United States, according to a study published recently in the Canadian Medical Association Journal.4Apr 18, 2007 12:31 AM by: Sudbury.com Staff
One in nine doctors trained in Canada are practising medicine in the United States, according to a study published recently in the Canadian Medical Association Journal.
10k here you go. This is a fact. My doctor is form Mauritius my brothers is from S Africa we import doctors as well both those guys came here for the money. There first choice was the US. I just had a conversation with him as he is on the board that negotiations with the government for fees. Almost all doctors here are professional corporations. They do not work directly for the government. Know one that is smart enough to become a doctor is going to go to school for 10 or 12 years, going in debt hundreds of thousands is doing it at least partly to make money. They are just following the money
How about a federal sales tax to fund healthcare? That way it is shared equally and the wealthy can't hide it in a tax exemption. To me it should be clear how much it costs to everyone. If healthcare costs go up and they will you just raise the FST.
Kend: Canadian doctors are not running away from your system of funding healthcare, they come here for many reasons, but not in the numbers you indicate...! Doctors worldwide are not running away from similar systems either.
I didn't mean to leave out payroll tax as a source of funding for single-payer in my above post....but most importantly , the overall cost to citizens is far lower than our current for profit system, something we all know. I just think this should be the main talking point in favor of single-payer...it's affordable!
Deepspace says it best, "paid for by all of us taxpayers together"!
Why do we want a payer with all the transaction costs of even a single payer? Why can't I join a health delivery system and eliminate all the claims, just like we go to public or private schools? We could still have co-pays, deductiblea and incentives for healthy behavior. We need to abandon insurance because insurance is always for a loss and never goal directed such as towards health. Chronic health care needs are not insurable because it is difficult to objectively define the basis for a claim and because of moral hazard.
What about the people that are no longer taxpayers?
What about the people that never pay income taxes?
What about the illegals that live in the US?
What about the tests that doctors are willing to perform but Medicare will not currently cover?
What about the 20% of your current Medicare bills that are not covered?
What about the doctors salaries? Will they be dictated by the government?
What about hospital costs that vary from state to state? Will they be standardized?
What about the outstanding doctors education loans?
What about the doctors malpractice insurance?
If you think this is the perfect answer to everyones medical care why didn't you serve in the military and you would now have the pleasure of dealing with the VA which is Free health care?
These are just starters. I have a solid dozen more after you answer the above.
What if there were a two tier system.
nessassary treatments ( medicare ) and elective treatments. (you pay your way)
As a taxpayer I prefer not to pay for other peoples Botox & facelifts.
Also we do not have enough Doctors in the needed fields.
Try to find an orthropedic doctor in Mendocino county, you will be sent to Santa Rosa.
Doctors should be able to pay off their loans by providing service to rural communities.
Perhaps deduct $ 40 or 50,000 per year from loans + Salary.
My biggest concern is now Insurance Co.s dictate our health care after...Gov. will dictate our health care.
Gov. already decided your children will have aprox. 62 vacinations.
If we unrig the elections, we could do A lot of good things.
Ou best health care will come when CONGRESS has to use the same care we get!
Why is their health so special?
HotCoffee, You make very reasonable suggestions but the malcontent leftie/socialists would immediately jump on a two tier system as being misogynistic, homophobic, racist, and generally not fair to those who desire a facelift but cannot afford one.
Insurance companies do not totally dictate our healthcare. They negotiate the prices they will pay for services. Medicare will dictate the services for which a doctor will get paid. Supplemental insurance may cover about 10% over the published Medicare prices but doctors limit their tests to those that they will receive compensation.
What will happen under a Medicare for all will be a decline in those entering the medical field. The bright ones will offer their services to those that subscribe to their concierge services and not deal with the government at all.
Those that choose to take a government job will droll away on a daily basis looking forward to a nice government pension when they retire.
We will all wait extended times for surgeries and have our tests limited to those that the government will allow us to have.
Those individuals that like 'Free stuff" will continue an unhealthily lifestyle and drag everyone down with them.
My answer to all the malcontents, move your ass to Canada and get a taste of "free stuff"
Everyone knows that Big Pharma completely controls the Main Stream Media (MSM). They just do. Pharma provides 70% of the TV news hour’s income. So, they dictate “The News.” Besides the constant manufacturing of “fear,” using their broadcasting, (so they can sell anxiety medicine)
Pharma’s influence in Congress. Lately, there has been speculation that there might have been influence by Big Pharma to BLOCK changes to the Health Care System that makes them rich… Of course there was – it never stops. Aren’t there FIVE Pharma lobbyists for every Congressman now?
Big Pharma completely controls the Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) by controlling the Department Heads under Tom Price. How? Big Pharma and US Health Care Agencies are a revolving door. DHHS employees that do well for Pharma will move to Pharma at five times their government salary. It is just the way it is.
@#'s 26 & 30:
My answer to all the Republican/Trump liars, remove your dumb asses from our democracy and go start your idiotic Christianist theocracy and oligarchy somewhere else -- preferably in Antarctica where, luckily, Republican-caused global warming is moderating the weather for a libertarian paradise.
Yeah, "what about" all that, Diane? Why don't you just provide the answers that suit you and your false narrative, since that's what you'll do anyway, no matter what anyone else says. Many here have come to the same conclusion. It's not an unfair assessment of your sophomoric debate tactics but a well-established pattern as a troll on this blog, is it not?
Thus, it would be a large waste of time to entertain your chronic delusions and misinformation. I'll let you figure out which is which, but virtually every concern you listed is either based on a lie, not valid , of no real consequence, or has been answered repeatedly by numerous people on this blog as well as numerous sites that lay out actual facts and legitimate concerns.
For the umpteenth time, here's an excellent reference to peruse before posting inanities and displaying embarrassing ignorance of the subject:
Of course you won't! Teapublican/Trump trolls seldom bother to do the hard work of proper research and so, thread after thread, will just keep posting the same deliberately uninformed crap gleaned from right-wing sites sponsored by the insurance industry. It is most revealing that all of these same baseless talking points against Medicare-for-all are almost never applied to the for-profit insurance and healthcare industry, which have engendered the greed that has caused most of the problems in our heathcare system. IOW, unregulated capitalism has proven to be an abject failure!
It's much harder to convince (right-wing) people of a truth than it is to fool them with a lie.
I'm fine with single payer as long as Congress has to live within the confines they choose for us. If they don't want it we shouldn't accept it either. If they won't accept it for themselves why should we?
157 million families in the USA have employer furnished health care and are extremely happy with it ( Google it if you don't believe me). Why would anyone in their right mind want a to leave and go to a two tier health care system like the one in Ontario (I lived there for 6 years). The two tiers are those without supplemental insurance who go to clinics and are seen by PA's and those with supplemental insurance who are seen by MD's. Single Payer will never happen in the USA. In Sanders home state of Vermont, the single payer idea was shelved because it was two expensive.....Sorry washed up lefties single payer is a non starter.
I do not need to Google it, I've had it most of my life. Once upon a time it was geat.
Most of the employees don't buy in because they can't aford too, if they do buy in they can't use it because the deductable is too high.
Drug prices are unbelievable! We still pay for them in insurance premiums....really needs to be rained in. I can't believe the side effects allowed....can't sleep take some buggurboo
and sleep well tonight....side effects...warts, liver damage, baldness, cancer, etc.
ask your DR. if it's right for you!
The more groups we are divided into the more they can overcharge. Like PG&E's tier program
HealthCare is more of a money game than heathcare as it now stands.
What we really need are Healers.
My rant got a little scrambled ...but you get the gist.
Off topic but an interesting article
How Orwell Became the Prophet Who Foresaw Our Future
Hot Coffee sounds like you had a bad experience. Mine and millions more is the opposite. My doctor visits are $10.00 no deductible, prescription also $10.00 for generic, $25.00 for name brand no deductible. Aetna is the insurer, my spouse and I pay about $200.00/month for coverage, the balanced paid by the employer.
I agree with you about the side effects of drugs. They can be dangerous. We do need healers, but that is not what single payer is about.
More groups means more competition, not the more groups can overcharge. That's a conspiracy theory.
Peace and Love
Thanks for the link....a great article, it may be off topic for this topic, but it's spot on for this site.
Hot coffee. Your right about meds. I have said this before here, but it blows me away that no one talks about it. The exact same eye drops same brand. at Safeway pharmacy in Canada / US before my private plan. $22.00 CAN. In AZ $125.00 US. That is insane. Also all the law suits. Fix those two things and healthcare costs will decrease drastically.
Happy Constitution Day!
Remember that "...Goddamn piece of paper!" (GW Bush), the one that DJ Trump also swore to defend and yet violates on a daily basis?
The indictments: huge and defiant violations of the emoluments clause; discrimination against religions; discrimination against minorities; discrimination against reporters performing their First Amendment duties; obstructing investigations and the course of justice; covering up huge personal financial fraud; probable collusion with foreign powers to launder money; probable collusion with foreign powers to undermine our election process; leaking highly classified intelligence to numerous foreign powers without following legal and proper protocol; deliberately breaking federal law by not honoring key provisions of the Affordable Care Act. This is only a partial list in the grab bag that Mueller's investigation will no doubt fill to the brim.
Lying to investigators is a felony, but constantly and knowingly lying to the American people is not, regrettably, against the letter of the Constitution. Nonetheless, such despicable behavior certainly violates the spirit of our founding documents and certainly undermines the confidence of citizens in their own government. How is that not treasonous to nearly every principle for which the United States of America supposedly stands?
Republicans as a whole have degenerated into a rudderless gang of servile grovelers, who are enabling their chosen psychopath to further destroy our dying democracy. Life imitating art -- what next for Trump, a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire named "Lucille"?
"... Makes it really easy to bash a man's brain in when you think it might save all his friends... Especially when you think the only way his friends can be tricked into living is if they're made into slaves. You stop seeing people as humans after a while."
In a joint press conference, McTurtle and Ryan declare, "We are all Negan!"
Anyway, Happy Constitution Day! The joke's on you!
are you talking about these folks??
ds, sorry pic's won't show up in post.
Clintons and Bushes,
Your Welcome for the link.
The tier system I am refering to is the Gold, Sliver, etc. ObamaCare plan.
If your wealthy you get great health care, if not you just get to pay for health care, not
actually use it. I was a store mgr. fo several years and the employees just couldn't afford it.
I had Kaiser...Blue Shield.... Now I have medicare.
Healers and Healthcare are not the same and you're right Healers have nothing to do with single payer but everything to do with health.
The closest I've came to healers in the Medical Profession was in Canada. I visited with Naturopath Doctors, they have the designation ND instead of MD. ND's are big on diet, ie, what you put into your body is most important in keeping us healthy. In Canada, ND'S are not part of the OHIP, so it's pay as you go. ND'S are here in the US and are covered by some insurers. More info is available here. http://www.naturopathic.org/
take a look at my position healthcare
i have NO idea why politicians - who have NO expertise with medicine or hospitals - and who themselves have an elitist system of healthcare - are in charge of making decisions for us. But it must be " because we let them, or we are lazy - or stupid."
Actually, as stipulated in the AFC, every member of Congress already is required by law to be under the same insurance system as everyone else. Most of them are millionaires, however, so you can bet they all have the best, star-studded plans and supplementals available on the market. No phony bronze for them, please.
Cool plan in your link -- connecting heathcare reform to progressive tax reform. Well thought out and easy to read. Thanks!
Nobody seems to have mentioned the most obvious source of funding the Bernie plan. All the money that corporations and persons send to the insurance companies should be sent it to the government instead. The only catch is you send the government 20% less for the same coverage. That government with all its corruption is far better than the profit motive of insurance companies to deny coverage.
We have more families in the USA who receive Healthcare insurance through their employers (157 million) than the total combined population of Australia, Canada, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden and the United Kingdom.
Most large employers in the U.S. hate employer-based healthcare insurance because it puts them at a huge competitive disadvantage with companies in countries with national healthcare insurance.
The moral dilemma for Republicans: wealthier people who can afford adequate healthcare insurance, and therefore adequate healthcare; on the other hand, poorer people who cannot afford either.
BernieCare sounds so wonderful. I have waited a long time to be able to afford health care and prescription medications. And dental!
But let's keep our feet on the ground for just a minute. The insurance is not totally "free." Taxpayers will pay for it. Before people against this movement get their teeth into this, there can be a straightforward discussion on funding. As beneficiaries of this insurance, we should show due diligence in discussing the costs And Savings there would be to the "government" and the "taxpayers." In this way, we can use transparency for our benefit.
As in the struggle for civil rights, people have suffered and died for this cause. Let's honor those who have gone before us by being as truthful as we are honest. And honest we can be, in showing the benefits of, as well as the need for, this one-payer health insurance.