The Republicans were glad to hire the parents as maids and landscapers. Paid them cash under the table. What, they had the nerve to have children! Deport them immediately.

Stop labeling people! I've been a Democrat for over 50 years but I'm really getting fed up.

All Democrats are not one way and all Republicans another. Painting people with the labels you use only causes more fustration and division.

I remember an old saying...what you accuse others of, you are yourself.

Face facts...Trump won because even Dems couldn't stand anymore of Hillary's corruption.

Thom...instead of jumping on the bandwagon and insulting 1/2 of the population

try thinking of ideas that will help the country....this is not suposed to be a contest of which 1/2 of the counrty can destroy the other 1/2. Starting a civil war will not be a feather in your cap.

Really Thom, 60 million or so folks and every single one of them "really just care about one thing: Making America White Again" are you sure? Could you be falsely accusing just a few folks? Maybe?

Well I know a few Republicans that love people of all colors.

I also know of mixed race couples that voted for Trump.

Please try to stay with truth.

Gee, as a PoC myself born and raised in the U.S., I used to daydream being deported to Japan...I have a feeling it may happen now

Deport all of them, or send them all to California where most of them live anyway. Then rename California to Mexifornia. If the dreamers had problems dreaming in Mexico, there are pills one can take. This problem should have never happened to begin with. Obama and the DEmocrats want to save their voting base. It is not about race. It is about saving America for legal Americans to have jobs.

Ou812 and HotCoffee:

Nice try at flipping the truth, but Democrats are not the ones who belong to a party that advocates deporting for no good reason almost a million young, productive, innocent Americans with brown skin to strange lands and deadly fates.

Again, Republicans as a whole are incapable of admitting their moral paucity on this issue. Their collective silence is deafening. A few scattered statements of empty outrage by "a few [emphasis mine] Republicans that love people of all colors" exonerates neither the huge base of bigots who love the bigotry of Trump the Bigot nor the reliable silent majority of hypocrites who sit on their dead asses slaved to bigoted Fux News, say nothing, and vote for bigots and racist policies every time. Sure, being a Republican doesn't necessarily mean you are a bigot, but if you are a bigot, you most likely are a Republican. Why is that?

Go ahead, lie your ass off, but no one here is buying them apples except your fellow liars and the politically naive. "I've been a Democrat for over 50 years..." Yeah right, and I've been a perfect saint for over 50 years.

deepspace,

I've been a democrat for over 50 years if you lie about me that is what's wrong with you...not me. If you will lie about me, whom you don't know, and call me the liar....you prove my point. So, why would you do that?

" exonerates neither the huge base of bigots who love the bigotry of Trump"

and you know this how? Because Don Lemon said so?

If you could get past the DEM & REPUB thing you might might realise we're Americans first.

Perhaps as you deal with the Trump situation you might consider how the next Dem president will be dealt with....you reap what you sow.

There are so many issues that need to be dealt with. Grow up!

Perfecty said!

I agree reguarding Policy makers...however I don't believe we would be any better off if Hillary was the liar in chief.

How does one vote for a racist and then profess not to be one?

How does one look at people and only see skin color?

They put Hillary up as the alternative....If you read then you know what she is.

They put Hillary up as the alternative....If you read then you know what she is.

She is the one who will teach you everything is someone elses fault.

If I had my way Tulsi Gabbard would be Pres. Just thought I'd throw that in.

HotCoffee,

You are revealed by your own words; you are judged by your own actions.

Regardless of how much you try to dodge and weave, this thread is about the immoral actions of an illigitimate president and the power-hungry party that enables him. Your lie, despicable and transparent, is drawing a false moral equivalency between Republicans and Democrats apropos of punishing "dreamers" for the actions of their parents, over which they had no control.

Dismissing pushback as mere labeling is disengenous at best, another lie at worst. And, if you are the 50-plus-year Democrat you claim to be, then why do you sound so Republican? You're right; I don't know you, but I do know the talking points, repeated endlessly in the right-wing bubble.

Ou812:

Why are you still dog-paddling in the shallow end of the pool?

deepspace

not surprised at all that you don't believe the truth.

I know both sides becase I listen to both side and BS is BS no matter what side it's on.

And in case you hadn't seen it,

For all of those (DACA) that are concerned about your status during the 6 month period, you have nothing to worry about - No action!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) September 7, 2017

Thank you for this commitment, Mr. President. Real protections will only come from your signing the DREAM Act ASAP. https://t.co/dCXSFrWfoy>— Nancy Pelosi (@NancyPelosi) September 7, 2017

ds,

wasn't it Rodney king that said "can't we all just get along" after the LA riots. He's clearly much smarter than you are. Maybe when this country looks like the ME after the Arab Spring you'll wish you didn't push for a civil war....yes the daily caller is right wing...you have heard even a broken clock is right twice a day. Thom H. certinally isn't right wing and I read him.

I did say I read both sides didn't I.

Seems Nancy & Trump are smarter than you as well, they are working out an agreement.

You do know Trump was a Dem and Hillary was at at least 1 of his weddings.

"So much for those much ballyhooed Democratic credentials" not credentials...facts.

I noticed you didn't say a thing about DWS and her computer fiasco...and I do think Hillary selling uranium to the Russians is worse than trump trying to build hotels there.

I think Trumps personal life is or was appalling....so is or was Bill C. Anthony Wiener, John Podesta et all. And then there is the poor ever the victim Hillary. Even the Dems are asking her to shut up!

Why do you think so many Dems voted for Trump???? Never mind I know...they all just suddenly turned racist.

Kinda all over the board ain't ya, HC? The more you talk, the more apparent it becomes where your true sentiments lie. Got it, you're a Democrat who hates Democrats. Uh huh. So then, did you vote for Trump too?

Because, contrary to popular spin, i.e. Republican lies, the overwhelming majority of real Democrats did not and would not. There just was not the stampeding hordes of which you speak, who suddenly lost their minds, violated their most cherished principles and everything they hold dear, and wasted their precious votes on a racist, misogynistic, lying creep who can't even open his mouth to breathe without spitting out hatred and disrespect for women, minorities, or anyone else who dares not adulate him or stroke his oversized ego.

Most other Democrats aren't that dumb. In fact, there were seven million plus hordes of Democrats whose votes for Hillary were "lost," stolen, or otherwise not counted, due to Republican attacks on our elections, which were much more effective than Russian attacks. Had all the votes been counted, Trump the Liar would not have "won" the Electoral College either, not even close, which blows up your entire argument that there were significant numbers of crossover votes. Sorry, didn't happen.

Apparently, you are well versed on all the transgressions of Democrats and keen to list some of their worst players. Strange though (not really) that the Republican side of your ledger is glaringly blank. So, what happened to your whole "both sides" principle in that instance? A mere oversight for the sake of brevity? Whatever.

(BTW, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Donna Brazile, Anthony Weiner, et al, have been duly shamed and are no longer in leadership positions, are they? They are history and no longer relevant. I doubt Republican leadership would be as forthcoming. Now, voters -- in both parties! -- need to purge all the committed corporatists from office in the next few election cycles ...not holding my breath.)

I'm all in for a viable third party, but what are concerned citizens expected to do in the meantime -- cede power to the one-party-rule Republicans and let them hand what's left of our dying democracy to the billionaires, which is already largely the case? I'd definitely rather take my chances with a Democratic Party that is painfully aware of their need to reform. At least they wouldn't try to deport innocent children or take healthcare away from millions of our less fortunate fellow citizens and neighbors to lavish huge, unneeded tax breaks on obscenely wealthy elites.

Another oversight perhaps, but you also failed to provide any on-the-record, factual evidence, beyond right-wing false accusations, of Hillary's many nefarious deeds. In truth, she's a very intelligent, qualified, and compassionate woman, yet, someone who still knows how to play political hardball with the best of them and go to bat for her constituents. (Putin didn't like that about her either.)

Really though, why is she being so unfairly singled out? She sure as hell ain't perfect and without sin (Who is?), but the over-the-top double standard that she has had to endure her entire career is truly breathtaking. Imagine the crescendo of fake indignation and wall-to-wall exploding heads, with Hillary haters crawling out of their caves to pontificate on her evil ways ad naseam, if Hillary talked or performed like Trump even slightly.

But enough about 2016; I have no interest in relitigating the last election with you. Coming back to the present, answer the damn question: Is it grossly immoral or not to deport innocent children, even those fully grown?

If so, why all the lesser ancillary B.S. hemming and hawing around this salient point? If so, why not hold Trump and the Republicans accountable for their actions as you would (correctly) the Democrats -- and not just a passing comment or two to check off your "both sides" list, but a full-throated condemnation, at least as passionate as the case you just presented against Democrats for much less?

Ask yourself, why did Trump choose this particular time to pick a problem out of thin air and create an artificial deadline for others to solve, that must now be "worked out" with Pelosi? Like his out-of-the-blue military transgender ban, how convenient are such distractions from the Russian investigation, which is just now entering a critical phase that seems to be backing the rat into a corner.

Coincidence? Suuure, okaaay. So why is he lashing out blindly in every way that you'd expect an unhinged tyrant to act when his power is seriously challenged. What next? War with North Korea, China, Iran, Venezuela, Liechtenstein?

It's also fascinating watching Republicans squirm over their poor choice, with more and more trying to distance themselves every day. All of a sudden Trump is not a real Republican.

Oh yes he is! Out of 17 greatly flawed candidates, the rank and file chose the absolute worst one, making him their party leader and a Republican through and through by all sober assessments. Own up to your hypocrisy, all you Republican liars!

And no, I do not champion class warfare -- that's on Trump, just one of his destructive proclivities that make him a "good" Republican. But then you would have realized that about their party over 50 years ago, right?

A final word to the wise: don't fall for Ou812's knee-jerk ego-framing of the argument, any argument -- she/he/it is only a stray Russian bot forever imprisoned in a lonely and scrambled consciousness that can never incarnate into flesh and blood. It must be a very frustrating existence to be nothing but a strand of decaying bits and bytes struggling for recognition and relevancy -- and here of all places! So sad.

Ah yes ...in the end, it's always about you, isn't it? Who cares what you choose to read or not. Certainly not I. That's why Al Gore invented scrolling.

#40

Thank you Al Gore for inventing scrolling :))

Good afternoon DR,

Thank you for your comment.

Trump being a pragmatist is true...also he knows the Clintons et all very well.

They have the same friends , went to the same parties and picked up much info at those parties and Trump being the only one not drinking or drunk.

I can't quite see how you can build in NY without dealing with the mob either.

I don't think there are many saints running around on any side.

I do think when the Dems finally have to come to terms with the DWS...IT issues they will be shocked how much info they have ignored....or maybe Trump will make that deal with Jullian.

Trump is not a pragmatist. He's a corrupt opportunist, willing to take advantage of any situation for his own advancement. Pragmatists are empathetic, opportunists are self-serving. Most Democrats are pragmatists, most of today's Republicans are obsessive ideologues. Democrats seek a middle ground between left and right, Republicans want a far-right absolutist plutocracy, but they won't show their hand because the country would turn against them. Many of us know what the end game of Republicanism actually is, but many who think that Republicans and Dems are on opposite ends of a political spectrum still don't get it. While I dislike today's Democrats, I have no illusions about Republicans.

HC,

It's nothing personal. Outside truth and reality are not dependent upon agreement. For instance, the laws of physics governing human-induced, catastrophic climate disruption are triggered by collective human behavior regardless if one happens to believe it or not. Agree, disagree, environmental deterioration will only get worse until our species as a whole can change its behavior and quit pouring carbon into the atmosphere. Period.

That eventuality can only happen when, or if, a critical mass of the population realizes the futility of mere opinion and faces the harsh reality of scientific fact. Even though most of us are binary thinkers and are conditioned to think of issues as always having two equally valid sides, actually most substantive issues only have one side. Something is either true or it is not. The challenge is to drill down to that singularity and find out.

Similarly, compassion is not a product of thought and thus can neither be defined nor cultivated by thought. It is possible, therefore, to have compassion for the person yet have no intellectual sympathy whatsoever for the person's delusional ideologies, worthless opinions, and destructive attitudes. No one owns thought and no one is owned by thought. It is fair game, one might say it is imperative, to tear each manifestation of our limited understanding of things completely apart down to its basic elements and then challenge its very foundations until every falsehood is burned away and only the kernel of truth remains. It ain't beanbag.

HotCoffee: "I would suggest you not expect all that Dem compassion to trickle down to you.

"After all look how much compassion you have for anyone not agreeing with you."

Both statements are false.

I've learned not to expect anything from anyone and certainly would not expect what you call compassion to trickle down from anywhere. Anyway, what a strange concept to expect such a weird thing, a "trickling" of compassion. Interesting.

Neither have I ever cared whether or not someone agrees with me in a comment thread or anywhere else. That would be the ego talking, which is useless input that evaporates into nothing, a waste of time and energy, not worth a second glance. Another oddity: why, or perhaps how, would compassion be predicated on intellectual agreement?

Wow! I wonder if that's why Trump and the Republicans can, for example, envision stripping healthcare away from the poor to give tax breaks to the rich or deporting almost a million American kids without good cause and yet feel no real compassion for their victims. Is it because they have spent so long living in the intellectual realm of ideology pursuing abstract goals that they are divorced from reality on the human to human level, having lost their capacity to empathize with those who have been reduced to numbers in computers that must be "solved?"

"Strange days indeed
most peculiar, Mama"

-- John Lennon, Yoko Ono

HotCoffee,

Cool. You are interesting to read despite our different understandings in certain areas. And you are so right that words do not, cannot, represent the totality of who a person is. No wiser words spoken.

After rereading the whole thread just now (a tedious task), I must apologize in return for jumping on you so hard right out of the chute and then not so subtly suggesting you were lying. That was uncalled for and unfair, and I'm sorry. Other than maybe not getting enough oats in the hay some mornings, there are no good excuses.

Charging head on at full gallop may get quicker results but increases odds of clean misses. From the dark side of the heart in that somewhat jaded, sometimes ornery Quixote-esque dragon slayer in my mind, who grows weary of hackneyed affectations, occasional bursts of impatience escape to lash out at one of the most trite, transparent, disingenuous tactics that hapless trolls use on liberal sites to introduce themselves as just one of the ol' gang, wink, wink. First, they oh so slyly (hee hee) qualify their status as a Democrat/ liberal/ progressive/ socialist/ Bernie-crat/ pick a "lefty" flavor (as if that will add gravitas to their clueless comedy acts) before launching into the same-old, dime-a-dozen, Republican "think"-tanked, focus-grouped, largely debunked, canned talking points, which are hammered on day in and day out (yawn) all the damn time everywhere. Right-wing hate radio and Fux News even blares out bullsh*t in the background of cop shops and hospitals for chrissakes -- a decades old, full spectrum, corporate mass media onslaught employing nonstop "big lie" propaganda techniques that would pop Joseph Goebbels' cork!

... mmm ... Unexpected consequences? Does correlation equal causation?

Does a constant barage of lies and fear incite hate and anger against all those goddamn wicked and conniving libtards and dumbocRATS and FAKE NEWS LIARS (which evidently means pretty much everyone else on planet friggin Earth except Trump, the greatest truth-teller of all time, so great you wouldn't believe it, folks. It's true ...no, really ...whole truth thing ...greatest ever! Believe me, folks, believe me...) and moooslums and non-white minorities in general -- especially all those OMG armies of little brown-skinned ILLEGAL ALIENS, all those invading hoards at the southern border a'comin' ta STEAL YER JOBS and VOTE ILLEGALLY?

Does all that glitzy, media-magnified, largely unfounded scaremongering trigger an uncontrollable primal urge for violent retaliation in some of the more feral, zombiefied/Foxmerized minds lurking in the shadows with rabid packs of other unhinged, far-right ideologues? Some fiery zealots simply won't tolerate anyone outside of their narrowly defined tribal identity, which is typically but not always Christian, white, gun totin, flag wavin, good ol' red-blooded, American-born boys past their prime with big beer guts in the front and obedient women in the back -- good people nonetheless conditioned all their lives to scapegoat unfairly certain other groups of good people for society's big problems instead of directing all that energy to find actual root causes and effective solutions.

Trump certainly has proven that hypothesis at numerous campaign rallies and impromptu interactions with crowds as well as carefully crafted productions (e.g., beating the crap out of a human CNN logo representing in the flesh reporters who bleed real blood -- just ask the, ahem, honorable gentleman from Montana, Trump-smitten Greg Gianforte). The Don's's new gangsta slogan for the 2020 campaign: "USA-USA-USA, punch ya face, hey-hey-hey!"

And no, the much smaller percentage of violent, so-called left-wing groups (certainly not my interpretation of the "left" or the progressive movement) absolutely do not represent the amazingly principled and peaceful, albeit loud and defiant, mass resistance mounting everywhere against Trump, Republicans, and their cruel and just plain stupid policies. If you're curious, peruse a composite of the many actual statistics on the subject (available free at a reputable site near you). With a few notable exceptions, most domestic terrorist attacks, hate crimes, and the violent street encounters of late have been perpetrated by far-right, self-described Republican, militant, super-white, male, nationalistic, radical Christianists with the stench of hate and anger in their breath and spittle. (The Rep. Steve Scalise shooter, a madman of the left, was a rarer breed of crazy, an exception that proves the rule.)

Nice try, but again, no! Before your strawman argument gets any further down the slippery slope, let's be clear that I do not support a free-for-all border policy just because simple humanity compels one to support a productive, law-abiding dreamer's human (if not technically legal) right not to be arbitrarily ripped from the only life she or he has ever known, from family, friends, community, school, church and, yes, job.

WTF !? Why does Morality 101 need to be explained to the big blob of recycled fat clogging up a toilet at 6 am, tweeting immature, egotistical gibberish? A big king sh*t with a little pawn brain hiding behind funny looking bushy eyebrows under a ridiculous do from the casino-gangster 50's, and little creepy pussy-grabber fingers poking out of his sleeves --LMAO! And THIS is the lying, malignant, narcissistic jerkwad that his starry-eyed idolaters want to normalize in the public eye???

Follow the bouncing ball ~~~ N~E~V~E~R ~!!!

"Houston, we have a problem." ... World, we have a problem!

Anyway, even if ya are a lyin, cheatin, thievin, stinkin, low down, no good, rotten piece of troll sh*t (said with much compassion), you are still interesting and challenging to read. (Thanks for the links; although, the first one didn't get sprinkled with the magic blue fairy dust to make it fly.)

Be safe wherever you are in these troubled times.

};--))