So Few Americans Understand What the Second Amendment Is Really About—or Its Dark History
By Thom Hartmann A...
With the crazed assault in Las Vegas that killed over 50 and wounded hundreds as only the most recent example, America's gun violence problem has reached a breaking point, and while we can talk all we want about assault weapons bans, universal background checks, and terror watch lists, there's only one real solution to this problem: We need to repeal the Second Amendment.
This, of course, is completely unacceptable to Republicans, but that's because they don't know the real the history of the Second Amendment, and the real history of the Second Amendment is as ugly as it gets.
Thanks to corporate media's unquestioning regurgitation of right-wing talking points, most Americans think that Second Amendment is in the Constitution to protect the rights of individual gun owners from the government.
But that's not even remotely true.
The "Second Amendment" as we know it today is a legal fiction invented by the gun industry and their buddies on the Supreme Court and sold to Americans by an expensive multi-decade-long PR campaign.
Despite what you might hear on Fox So-Called news, there actually was no "individual right to own a gun" until 2008, when the Supreme Court said there was in its decision in the case of District of Columbia v. Heller.
That decision, which struck down Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban, was the culmination of a decades-long push by the gun industry to twist the Second Amendment into something that would help it sell more weapons, and it had zero basis in real Constitutional history.
Read more here.
Comments
#2
Thom strict constitutionalists as they like to call themselves view the document as frozen in time. Therefore the technology it references is the tech of that time. That is also a logical argument for anyone to make. How can the founders be expected to know about sub machineguns? Point is ask your second amendment nuts whether or not bullets existed at the time of the second amendment.
#3
Thanks Thom for telling us what all the founding fathers actually meant. What would we do without your deep knowledge of the exact thoughts of those that were writing the constitution and Bill of Rights over 226 years ago.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason, Co-author of the Second Amendment, during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
#4
Isn't that Thom with a gun in the top photo?
#5
The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
That clear language is in the 2nd admenment. You can argue all day long about what the militia stuff means, but this language is still there.
The NRA has the power it does because many blue collar union votes swing on the issue of gun control.
#6
A couple of years ago I went to a Tim McGraw concert. One of my favorites. One of his opening acts was Brantley Gilbert. He had a big rant about his God given constitutional rights to carry guns etc. Gave big finger symbols etc. Good luck on stage from now on Brantley. Feel like a target?
When are we going to end this madness. This is a classic case that background checks do not work in these type of cases. I have posted hundreds of times that all purchasers of weapons of mass destruction should be required to take the MMPI (Google it) and be evaluated by psychiatrists. Only real way that it will work.
#7
I think NRA= Not Relevant Anymore!
#8
Too many forget why there is a NRA.. it was formed to arm the KKK. The legal arguments were based on the KKK being a "citizens militia" that was formed to protect whites from supposed angry free slaves that would terrorize whites in the south. later the "Militia" part got scraped in the hearts and minds of the faithful... so it was improperly used to declare every had the right to have a gun, no militia required. here in the "Bible Belt" of Virginia... the "Christian Right" has declared they have a "celestial" authenticity in gun ownership and "Christians" should be allowed to carry their guns anywhere they choose.. as the late Rev Jerry Falwell stated even Christian students should be allowed to carry their guns to public schools. Thus the "religion" of the Bible Belt Christians obligates all their faithful to arm themselves and their families to be ever ready to "kill sum bitches that ain't got Jee-suz" Rev Jonathan Falwell stated that in Dec 2015 to a Liberty Univ crowd of 8,000.. further "all students are permitted and encouraged to carry firearms on campus." last I checked, 85% of Thomas Road Baptist Church donations come from NRA. No surprise, the Falwell family are visible lobbyists for guns for all. I guess if Jee-suz returned he would have concealed weapons permit... carrying a 9mm Glock.. ready to kill. Rev Falwell said he was and got a standing ovation from student body.
#9
Sadly... Redneck religion is based on the belief that "Jee-suz created the NRA to arm the faithful" to be ever vigilant and ready to kill some "sum bitches" that ain't got Jee-suz. A Redneck is America's version of the so-called Moslem Terrorist that is dedicated to killing "sum bitches that ain't got Mohammad." ironically, the Evangelicals here in Central Virginia think it's OK for Israelis to "kill sum bitches that ain't got Moses" and on and on it goes... tribalism rules the planet.
#10
To me this a mental health issue more then a gun issue. We don't do near enough to help those with mental illness. If someone wants to hurt or kill they will find a way to do it with or without guns.
#11
No change possible.. as former Justice Antonin Scalia stated... his obligation was to see that "nothing shall happen for the first time." he was commenting on the idea that US Constitution was a dynamic document. Scalia and his Repig cohorts were and are still opposed to any social changes in our society. When it comes to advancing the interests of our society, it's still mind over matter. IE They don't mind and we the electorate do not matter. The Declaration of Independence and the preamble to the US Constitution are in business terms simply marketing collateral to sell a product: The United States of America. Which is a slogan, not a reality. America is like third world countries... s mere collection of "tribes" with each tribe proclaiming "celestial authority" is controlling others.
#12
#10 - Gun ownership is a mental heath issue... period!!!!
#13
Repeal the Second Amendment? HELL NO!!! I'm about as liberal as it comes and I think this is a gawd awful idea. And I resent you trying to get laws passed to take away my weapons. Let me tell you something, Thom: I moved to Florida over 13 years ago. What I didn't know is that five streets away is Mafia; members of the Matranga crime organization. His stepson came to me demanding money and when I refused he said, "You'll do as you are told, or else!" and I said, "Or else what?" Ever since then they have been burglarizing and vandalizing my home and my storage lockers. They have punched six holes in the roof on my house the size of a grapefruit, they have disabled the electricity, they have ripped all of the drip panels off the house, they have taken chunks out of the flooring inside and out, they have destroyed ALL of the cement walkways around the whole house, and much much more. If I didn't have weapons, they'd be in here vandalizing ME!!! And the police are the biggest joke of all. Down here in the South, you are decidedly "on your own" unless you are a prominent part of the Establishment; otherwise they want you to go away and will tell you so straight to your face! I have had over one dozen complaints where they gave me paperwork to memorialize it, yet, according to one officer, who told me, "You're not even in the system." Translation: "We sanitize our record keeping so we look good because we have so little crime on file." So, take your pie-in-the-sky notions and put them where they will do the most good; in the trash basket!!! The Second Amendment isn't the problem, the GOP isn't the problem, the gun manufacturers aren't the problem. The problem is austerity and all the poverty and all of the frustration derived from a government that is being run for itself and its own best interests ON OUR MONEY!!!!!!!! Just have a look at how this administration is responding to and handling what is going on in Puerto Rico; it's like an instant re-run of Louisiana and Katrina, but instead of Condolezza Rice shopping for shoes, Trump is golfing!!!! You are NOT, NOT, NOT asking yourself or anybody else to address the root problem; why are people behaving this way? Why are people behaving in a lawless way? Could it possibly be because our whole government and society is behaving in a lawless way? Wake up, Thom; you're being stupid. You are calling for the same old same old that gets us nowhere; to change laws and give us greater restrictions. If I didn't know better, I'd say you were working for the oligarchy which would just LOVE to disarm this country. Learn your history, Thom. Every time there is some kind of monopolistic dictatorship, the first thing they want to do is disarm the citizenry. NO! NO! NO! NEVER!!! And shame on you for even asking!!!!! :(
#14
Read your history
Madison itended that gun ownership was a substitute for a standing army
Reasoning since at the time of a nation in infancy needing to defend itself
This intention has been misuderstood I believe
The US has the largest standing army in the world
Why do people need all these guns????????????
#15
#13 - Cause and effect RIGHT in your face
Nearly 400 million guns in the US
What do you expect?
#16
Having a blasted GUN must be an ego thing...
Grow up!
#17
Oh I absolutely agree with you, Thom. We MUST abolish the Second Amendment. And then, when the obvious next step is taken and all assault rifles are confiscated, followed shortly by the confiscation of all other armament in the hands of all but a very select and carefully vetted few, We The People will be infinitely safer. I have absolutely no problem with any of this, as long as, when our wise and benevolent government sends its enforcers around to collect my arsenal they hand me something for self defense more befitting my station in society, say, a pitchfork....
#18
Dianereynolds still thinks we're in the late 18th century ....farmer/militias with flintlocks. The Foxaganda talking point that having citizens armed will protect us from a government that would enslave us is obviously bull. Good luck taking out the 21st century United States military machine with your modified assault weapons Diane. BTW: I don't see any sign of armed insurrection.....what are you waiting for, could our government get any worse than it is now? 47th in freedom of the press.....hell, we're right there with Russia.
What disturbs me more than the kochpublican 2nd amendment crap is their lack of respect for our first amendment...can't kneel in protest..really? The 2nd amendement obsession has been created by the NRA , the lobby for gun manufacturers, it's all about the god almighty dollar. They use fools like the Alabama nut running for senate...God and Guns...yes er reee.
#19
God help mericuh!
You sure cursed already...
#20
Guns & murder are illegal now in Chicago....hows that working for you?
#21
The NRA's new motto: "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas."
Maybe if we had just as strong of a right to bear votes as we do arms, our representatives would feel more emboldened to honor the People over the gun industry. When polled specifically on the issue, without the color of partisan politics tainting the question, the majority of citizens by wide margins (including sober Republicans not caught up in the right-wing frenzy) want more sensible and effective gun-control laws, especially when it comes to weapons of war flooding our streets, which are designed to murder as many people as possible as quickly as possible.
Clearly the laws on the books aren't worth the ink. When some deluded psychopathic bastard can secretly amass 40-some weapons at home and then smuggle 23, many of them semi-automatic with scopes (some illegally converted to rock 'n roll) into a hotel room near the top of a building in the vicinity of a heavily populated venue, without so much as raising a single alarm anywhere in the system, isn't it time for a serious change of attitude in the Republican Congress?
The nation always has this same stupid debate after every mass shooting, without ever finding any sensible solutions before the next shiny object grabs the headlines. But c'mon -- at least 59 dead and over 500 hundred injured by one guy and one trigger finger in a matter of minutes? In the infantry, we called that "suppressing fire." Why is it happening in our neighborhoods?
Abolishing the Second Amendment in this political climate is obviously a bridge too far; surely though, there are plenty of other concrete measures available short of that, on which reasonable people can agree. What is more important, protecting the lives of citizens or protecting the careers of politicians placating their looney-tune base?
#22
Wondering how many phyc drugs this guy was on....as were so many other mass shooters.
#23
Vegas Shooter Passed All Federal Background Checks, Had Ingredients For BOMB In His Vehicle
Local news now reports that ammonia nitrate, the ingredients for a fertilizer bomb, was found in Paddock’s vehicles as well.
http://www.dailywire.com/news/21843/vegas-shooter-passed-all-federal-bac...
#24
Murders in US very concentrated: 54% of US counties in 2014 had zero murders, 2% of counties have 51% of the murders
https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/number-murders-county-54-us-counties-2...
#25
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
#26
After seeing his brothers press release (whack job in big house) it is by no stretch of the imagination that he is as nuts as his wealthy investor right wing wack job gun nut8 brother. apparently the shooter barely knew how to use guns and spent most of time helping the girlscouts sell cookies and was so fortunate to be able to send ginormous cookie boxes from fabulous location throughout the world to his mother as a millionaire.
#27
What's changed? Many years ago anyone who wanted a gun could still get one, legally or otherwise. What was missing from society was the term "mass shootings." Back then, that phrase was not in our vocabulary. Corporations have changed the face of America into what it is today. It's the only big wheel that's been turning all this time. Call it collateral damage. All this is just conjecture, but I can't help but think they might be part of the problem.
#28
In reference to #3, speaking of enslaving people..... looks like some had a lot of experience in doing just that back then. thanks for your concern of those who were not enslaved back in 1788.
#29
#21 you didn't go there. OMG you did. "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.".
Which Church was he attending???!!! All alert, what church did he attend. News flash. Was he leaving a ??? church recently before he went nuts? End the bigotry.
#30
Do away with the 2nd amendment? Hell no!!! I have defended myself and family against intruders to my home on several occasions.
Having a gun is an ego thing? Fuck you!!! It is a life saving thing, dickhead.
I agree no one needs a full automatic weapon. I have used a semi-auto shotgun and a semi-auto, 9 mm to defend against those that want to harm me and my family.
The crazed, evil peice of shit that killed and wonded people at random with a full automatic rifle must be stopped from owning it.
#31
Kend is right. This is a mental health issue. Republicans are fucking crazy. This rightwing Second Amendment argument is the epitome of deranged Republicans creating their own insane definitions to validate and justify their selfish, greedy and bigoted, paranoid thinking…abetted by Fox News, Breitbart and all these other Fake News rightwing so called news sources.
This man may or may not have been a Republican, but he was armed by Republicans. And all this blood is on their hands.
#32
It is a mental health issue. Also an availability of semi auto weapons. Also the ability to convert semi auto to auto. Mental hospitals were ended by Reagan. Semi auto ban ended by Bush. The ban was enacted by Reagan after he was shot by a semi auto gun. No Republicans will have solutions today, tomorrow or next year. My solutions are first ban semi auto guns. Require the MMPI (you can Google it) for all gun purchases with and evaluation of pass or fail. Limit guns sales (this guy had 43). Limit and control ammunition sales.
#33
#29: You're right; that was admittedly a cheap shot and quite indefensible. I apologize for the apparent levity; although, that was certainly not my intention. A trite marketing expression does not and cannot match the gravity of yet another senseless mass murder on the streets of the American war zone (which is beginning to resemble those in the Middle East -- "The war comes home.") Nevertheless, let us not lose sight of the deadly serious (no pun intended) point behind the, forever inadequate, words:
You watch; once the hue and cry wears out its welcome on corporate media, and our news cycle once again returns to "normal" programming -- all things Trump 24/7 ad nauseam, ad infinitum -- the NRA will crawl out of its Fux hole and return fire with the usual barrage of heavy-artillery lies. And the main weapon in their arsenal of spin is always, "This is an isolated incident attributable to every excuse on Earth that right-wing "think" tanks and gun lobbyists can dream up" -- obscuring the actual reason: The primary business model of the gun industry is to put as many weapons as possible into the hands of as many people as possible; damn the consequences!
It's a simple formula: Corporate greed + Republican lapdogs + lax gun laws = 59 dead; 527 wounded (fatalities predicted to rise) ...but hey, huge profits!
May God have mercy on the victims and punish the enablers.
#34
Great show as always.
Re the discussion of gun issues with NRA fans:
The question is not logic - more laws, insurance, background checks.
The REAL question is "What would do / how would you feel if you had been a victum of this crime / event?"
That would probably shut down all of their arguments and change the subject from an objective discussion to a subjective discussion.
Thank you!
#35
Seems that all of the Republicans have gotten the memo to say that now is an emotional time, and we should discuss it later. That or go underground and hide.
#36
After the carnage, the forbidden, politically incorrect discussion (for Republicans and corp Dems anyway) ...the best one so far:
Linked videos in article:
#37
Thom's most annoying guest Julio miss quoted when he suggested that the sales of automatic machine guns were outlawed by the federal government in 1986. The gov. Stopped the manufacturing of new machine guns. These weapons of war can still be legally transferred to a new owner on approval from the ATF. Here is the # of automatic machine guns registered by the ATF. The number of these guns registered as of 2006 was 391.532. All these facts can be found at Law Center To Prevent Gun Violence. smartgunlaws.org.
#38
If now's not the time to talk about gun laws then at least set a specific time and place right now. Give us an exact time when you are ready to talk about gun laws. If not now, then when?
I'm guessing that these greedy, murdering, bigoted Republicans are never ready to talk about gun legislation. Therefore, it is time for them to go! Actually, it was time for them to go about 50 years ago.
#39
Fox News is not a "well regulated militia." The KKK is not a "well regulated militia." Breitbart is not a "well regulated militia." Where is this "well regulated militia" referred to in the Second Amendment that these gun-nuts keep holding up as their right to go completely gun crazy?
#40
Nope! Not great again this week either!
#41
Please do not miss reading the full article! After reading Thom's post I failed to see the "Read more here" link.
#42
Not so sure about that #41,
"The White House announced its eighth batch of judicial nominees on Thursday, including four excellent choices for the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals. They include a pair of Texans: Don Willett, who is now on the Texas Supreme Court and is well known for his witty Twitter feed; and James Ho, a Gibson, Dunn partner in Dallas who clerked for Justice Clarence Thomas and was Texas solicitor general. The other two Fifth Circuit nominees have notable legal achievements to their credit. Stuart Duncan was solicitor general of Louisiana and general counsel for the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty. He was counsel of record in Burwell v. Hobby Lobby Stores, the landmark 2014 decision allowing closely held companies to be exempt from regulations they object to on religious grounds. Kurt Engelhardt is chief judge for the federal district court for eastern Louisiana. In 2013 he wrote a withering 129-page opinion documenting misconduct by the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division and the U.S. Attorney in prosecuting New Orleans police.
The speed of the nominations and the quality of the nominees is a result of the close ties between White House judicial vetters and the Federalist Society that is a national clearinghouse for conservative legal talent. Judicial nominations are arguably the most successful part of the Trump Presidency. By our count—and we may have missed a name or two—Mr. Trump has made 18 nominations to appellate courts, 39 to district courts and three to the U.S. Court of Federal Claims."
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2017/10/03/meanwhile-trump-keeps...
#43
Where are the Romans when we need them?
#44
Maybe you can explain why this is good for you DianeReynolds?
#45
I see that Thom has scrubbed his website of the photo of him shooting a handgun. A .40 cal I believe but then I did not give the photo much thought. What's the matter Thom? Embarrassed now by the pic? Afraid that it demonstrated your hypocrisy on the issue of private ownership of firearms?
People posting here are so quick to blame the inanimate object (the weapon(s)) and completely ignore the guilt of the perp.
K2
#46
@ #46
Reminiscent of Obama shooting a shotgun.
I suspect it was a posed photo to show he is a manly man. Anybody that has ever shot a semi auto handgun would ever hold a gun like that while firing. Shooting with your thumb behind the moving slide is a mistake you make only once. I doubt anyone in the vacinity of that photo would have allowed him to make a rookie mistake like that.
Side note to Thom stammering at the "good guy with a gun" comment yesterday,
Tennessee church usher who stopped gunman is hailed as 'hero'
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/24/tennessee-church-usher-who-stopped-...
#47
Why don't you two get a room; you have so much in common: paranoid, deluded liars so brainwashed by far-right propaganda that you can't think clearly and evidently have no capacity for self reflection. The main reason that some of us here ridicule most of your positions and statements is that they are not based on any reality whatsoever. That blunt assessment is a self-evident fact, not an opinion.
Above are glaring examples of this irrefutable fact -- typical of virtually every programmed "thought" you regurgitate on this blog. Nothing in either post is even remotely true. Nothing!
Thom has never -- not once on this blog, on his programs, or in his many books -- advocated banning the "private ownership of firearms." That is a direct lie.
Advocating the banning of the widely misinterpreted and outdated Second Amendment, however, is a constitutional issue on a different level altogether. His contention, as is the majority of Americans, is that using the amendment as an excuse for the proliferation of weapons of war on our streets is simply wrong in so many ways. Instead of falsely generalizing to promote your worthless opinions, please name one point he made about the actual history of the Second Amendment that is factually incorrect.
And no one here is "blaming an inanimate object" or "completely ignoring the guilt of the perp." That is an artificial separation and, at the same time, a false equivalency argument that you are having with yourself in your own little Fuxed-up "mind." It is obvious the two aspects of these types of atrocities are inseparable in outside reality.
Furthermore, to any normal thinking human being anyway, it is obvious that Thom took down the photo out of a commitment to his own personal, evolving feelings and principles (It is his website, after all.), and as a powerful statement in line with those principles -- the very antithesis of hypocrisy. Of course that would completely escape the small mind of a real hypocrite, now wouldn't it?
Similarly, after Sandy Hook, I could no longer bear looking at the AR-15 that I had built from scratch, with all of the most advanced bells and whistles available on the market at the time, so I sold it to a dear friend of mine -- a cop who uses it for target practice. Is that also considered hypocrisy in your Fux News alternate universe?
As far as a proper stance, etc., is concerned, Thom was merely posing for a likely impromptu snapshot on his brother's property, who is an avid target shooter, where Thom has frequently practiced himself. He also went through formal training at a Georgia (I believe it was.) police academy as part of background research for one of his books.
Although I didn't bother to look closely enough to see if he was holding the automatic pistol exactly correctly as he posed for his brother's picture, rest assured that he absolutely does know how to fire it correctly. Your shameful insinuation otherwise is just another made-up lie that you pulled out of your old bony ass.
Finally, your whole "good guy with a gun" despicable lie (yet again) is disproven by your own linked article. Yes, the church usher is absolutely a hero, but he never stopped the perp with a gun -- he tackled him, a fight pursued, and the bad guy shot himself. After he was subdued and disabled, THEN the good guy went to his car to get a gun and hold the bad guy until the police arrived.
So you two congenital liars should get a room -- preferably a padded cell in a psych ward.
#48
Could the timing be any better?
deepspace •
“Besides, I really don't like giving advice to anyone (not my place) -- hey, just describing what I see and throwing out opinions for what it's worth, like anyone else. As Dirty Harry said, "Opinions are like assholes; everyone's got one."
“You're not Mommy the Monitor. This is a free-speech zone, so post as much or as little as your black heart desires. If you can't handle my politically incorrect posts, then don't read them and don't respond.”
#49
Here is Thom with with Bro's .40 cal gun.
https://www.thomhartmann.com/image/trying-out-my-brothers-40-cal
#50
Simple solution to end 2nd Amendment debate: The Government would provide every citizen age 16 and up with a handgun. Thus, America's meets the 2nd Amendment objective of having an armed citizen's militia. Citizens could then mete out justice with impunity. All such shootings would be "justifiable" homicide in self defense. Since all citizens equally armed would provide "prima facie" evidence of acting in self defense by shooting first. This would be in keeping with our devotion to guns and shooting those that deserve it. That would minimize NRA and it's surrogates.. like The Rev Jerry Falwell and Rev Jonathan Falwell in their attempt to make guns a "religious" obligation... Of course this sounds absurd, but so is a nation that allows the proliferation of weapons that kill.
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One more time, we will hear and read empty hollow claims of sympathy by Republican Senators, Congressmen and the POTUS while they do nothing. Do we stop going to Country Concerts or do we let one person spoil it all for us. Same thing could happen at many venues, What are you going to do to stop it.
Just as a side note. My Tea Party neighbors, instead of flying their flag at half mast as the POTUS has requested, are flying their flag at full mast with a garbage bag flying below it. Do not know the meaning? Seems worse than kneeling during the National Anthem to me.