Is John Kelly Encouraging the "Good Nazis" of the Confederacy?
By Thom Hartmann A...
People Are Officially Done With John Kelly After His 'Absurd' Civil War Comments.
This is fascinating. "The White House chief of staff blamed the war on a 'lack of compromise'?" A lack of compromise? The Civil War!
Eric Haywood responded to this in Twitter. He said:
"Black People: hey hi we are not your property
Southerners: yes the f**k you are
John Kelly: damn shame they couldn't meet in the middle"
I mean, that really summarizes it, right?
Ed Mazza writing over a Huffington Post summarized some of these.
Ted Lieu, the congressman from California, said...
"Dear John Kelly: The United States of America exists because President Lincoln did not compromise."
Bernice King, the daughter of the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King:
"It's irresponsible & dangerous, especially when white supremacists feel emboldened, to make fighting to maintain slavery sound courageous."
Let's just be clear about what happened, about what's going on. This is from the South Carolina articles of secession which are widely quoted. They are the most explicitly racist and the most clear. It comes right out and says this is all about slavery:
"Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union...
And now the State of South Carolina having resumed her separate and equal place among nations, deems it due to herself, to the remaining United States of America, and to the nations of the world, that she should declare the immediate causes which have led to this act.... Those [non-slaveholding] States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions;"
In other words slavery.
"and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution;"
That would mean the right of white people to say that black people are their property.
"They have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States."
To free slaves.
"They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection...
A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free."
Right. So make it all slaves or we're out of here. That was what Robert E Lee said. That was what these guys were defending. This is what these guys stood for.
And John Kelly comes out and says, 'oh no, it was just civil war was because we couldn't compromise,' right. Abe Lincoln didn't want to compromise.
Now you can argue, and I think probably effectively, that Lincoln should have simply said to the south, 'okay, see you guys later'.
There's a fair amount of documentary evidence that Lincoln did not expect that the Civil War was going to last for years, that he thought it was going to be a matter of a few weeks and we'll take down these rebels and that'll be the end of that.
It just didn't work out that way.
But without relitigating the Civil War, I think that we can look back and say there were more slaves living in Mississippi and Alabama than there were white people at the time of the Civil War.
This was the principle wealth of the United States north and south, and the products the slaves produced like the city of Washington DC and perhaps frankly most other southern cities were built with slave labor. It's ahistoric. Ta-Nehisi Coates put it together in a brilliant tweetstorm. He says...
"Notion that Civil War resulted from a lack of compromise is belied by all the compromises made on enslavement from America's founding."
And he points to the three-fifths compromise, right there in the Constitution, when you're figuring out how many representatives in the House of Representatives a state should have, it's a function of population.
And people in the South said, 'hey we should have more representatives in Congress because we've got all these people.' And people in the North said, 'yeah, but you don't let those people vote, they are slaves.' And the people in the South said, 'yeah, but they're people.' And the people in the North said, 'then free them.' And the people in South said, 'no, but please count them.' And that's where they were at when they said, 'okay, we'll count three-fifths of them to determine how many members of the House of Representatives you get and we'll write it into the constitution.'
That was a compromise, John Kelly.
Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote...
"I mean, like, it's called The three fifths compromise for a reason. But it doesn't stand alone. Missouri Compromise. Kansas-Nebraska Act.
Lincoln's own platform was a compromise. Lincoln was not an abolitionist. He proposed to limit slavery's expansion, not end it."
That was before the war. Ta-Nehisi Coates goes through this whole long list.
It shouldn't be necessary for us to acknowledge that the Civil War was fought to defend the institution of slavery, period, full stop. And it's an indefensible institution.
Which raises the question, did John Kelly do this in order to change the subject away from the possible impeachment of Donald Trump or the prosecution of people in the Trump administration for high crimes and misdemeanors, or did John Kelly say this because he's an idiot?
Somehow I doubt that a four star general is an idiot.
Now, maybe I'm wrong on this. Maybe I'm naïve. I haven't spent years in the military. But why did John Kelly say this?
Is this the latest Trump administration effort to deflect our conversation? Is that really what it's all about?
Is John Kelly willing to destroy his own personal reputation and the way that he is treated by history just to help Donald Trump?
It may be. I honestly don't know the answer to that question. It's increasingly looking like that.
And then the question becomes: Paul Manafort and his business partner and some of his associates, are they willing to go to prison for Donald Trump?
And so far it looks like yes, but I think that this whole thing here, taking down Manafort and everything else, this is Mueller's way of saying, 'okay, buddy, this is what we've got on you, and to anybody else who's part of this, this is what we can do to you.'
Comments
#2
In defense of her book, Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil, (1963), Hannah Arendt wrote, “When, many years ago, I described the totalitarian system and analyzed the totalitarian mentality, it was always a ‘type,’ rather than individuals, I had to deal with, and if you look at the system as a whole, every individual person becomes indeed ‘a cog small or big,’ in the machinery of terror."
The individual actors are only playing their parts in a larger story that must be told. But why must evil always do its dirty deed before it can be detected? And why must the audience always sit passively by, waiting to be entertained?
"The more things change, the more they stay the same." -- Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr
#3
Gen. John Kelly may have been able to get away with such BS while he was a General among military yes-men, but such BS won't work on the American public in general.
#4
Under our system (theoretically anyway), a general has less rank than a civilian ...and now we know why.
#5
He never attended the Navel Academy, where he might have learned about military history.
#6
This has already been said many times before, but bears repeating. Most of those Confederate soldiers came from very modest backgrounds and held no slaves. In other words, they had no skin in the evil game. They simply died senselessly defending wealthy out of control plantation owners. Is it really any different now? I think not. Look at the all of the people who voted Kochpublican in 2016.
Even with the modern day clarity of this subject, right and wrong being crystal clear, we still have KKK rallies in Jefferson's hometown with a white boy domestic terrorist using his car as a weapon.
Bannon is behind the bigotry.....he easily programs numbnuts like Trump, and I'm sure Kelly is drinking the same Kool aid.
#7
There is a lot of stupid and a lot of idiot around all over the place
Is it observably getting more prevalent
I often wonder how, despite education, we get more of it?
#1 - Yeah! Rent a slave... haha! You've created a new app right there
#8
While Thom rehashes the civil war....the Dems won't have to discuss Donna Brazille and
Elizabeth Warren finally telling the truth about Hillary. Bernnie knew and still tried to get
his supporters to vote for her...sad! I think CNN even had to mention it.
As for slavery...it was wrong...it is wrong...it will always be wrong. Except for a few holdouts in the South ( most old and won't be around much longer ) everyone knows it's wrong.
Tearing down monuments doesn't change the past....it is just a way to pretend it didn't happen, or to anger people by denying them their history. Changing hearts takes a desire for both sides to try to understand each other.
#6
A Muslim just killed 8 people in New York are all dems responsible for that? Dems want to let everyone into the Country.
BOTH Dems & Repubs had a very good reason not to vote for the other side.
Individuals are responsible for their own behavior!
When we generalize about people we are usally wrong.
#9
I'm old enough to have heard Martin Luther King when he said It's not the color of your skin but the contentof your Character that matters. He was right then and he's right now.
The poor of every color have suffered.
There are poor on the left & poor on the right, poor in the city & the countryside.
The people in the City and the people in the Country see things differently because they live in different enviornments.
I was raised in the City and moved to the Country...after 20 years I'm a city woman to folks in the country and a country woman to folks in the city.
My nature is to want to feed wild turkeys and deer....country nature is to hunt them during the season and put them up in the freezer for food security in the winter.
In my life I find it hard not to like people I know...maybe we all need to know more people. It's easy to find reasons to hate people we don't know.
There are some very bad people in this world ...yet most of us aren't one of them.
#10
I drove past the fires in California yesterday and I saw signs of praise to the firefighters,
police, and signs from the people telling other people where they could get help, craigslist offering items for free to help and nobody asked if anyone was republican or Democrat, nobody seem to care what color anyone is.
I wonder if it's like that in Florida and Texas?
#11
HotCoffee: "When we generalize about people we are usually wrong."
Haha, what an oxymoronic statement! You're joking, right?
So then, are you usually wrong when you generalize about "Dems," like you just did in post #8, and in numerous other posts, or when you repeatedly generalize about hating Hillary? Or does your general rule of thumb generally not apply to yourself?
These are generally rhetorical, as I'm generally not interested in hearing an explanation for double standards or incongruous statements.
#12
Hey Deepspace, Birdbrain here, The classic example of Hot Coffee's contradictory thinking is:
"Individuals are responsible for their own behavior!"
"When we generalize about people we are usually wrong."
It cracks me up when I hear that Democrats are not willing to compromise with Republicans. In other words, they want fact to compromise with fiction or truth to compromise with lies. And that will somehow move us forward?
#13
It makes you wonder what the conservatives are trying to preserve, or conserve, from our National heritage.
They cannot admit that the Confederate States of America lost the Civil War and that the government of the United States (the Union) won the Civil War. Each Confederate slave State, unwilling to compromise, declared its secession from the United States leading to war - unacceptable.
Some interesting historical maps and how states swayed through this period are available in encyclopedias under listed under "Slave states and free states".
It looks like the blunder twin trolls can't come up with something intelligible once again.
#14
Hotcoffee, Nice writeup and spot on concerning the 2016 Democrat party's debacle.
It was clear from the start that Clinton was never going to allow Sanders into the race and watching the bumbling vacillations from the on again/off again media talking heads was hysterical. The current comments from Brazille, Pocahontas, and the rest of the Hillary you can now officially go away crowd, is even more telling.
Listening to them now piss and moan over anything President Trump is doing all could have been avoided if they had picked a horse and ran with it from the start. The malcontent leftie/socialists mocked the 16 Republican candidates yet totally ignored the fact the "free stuff" socialist in the room was never going to get closer than arm's length to the nomination.
Once Clinton had her knife was firmly planted in Sanders back, their sudden attempt at shifting support from a socialist to a crook was comical to say the least and yet they still wonder how President Trump got elected.
Oh yea, I forgot it was "the Russians".
BTW,
Thom, the Civil War is over. You can officially go back to referencing Hitler in every one of your rants against the Republicans.
#15
Hilary won because every Democratic woman wanted the first female POTUS. They picked a flawed candidate that was hated by every blue collar American male for reasons like "they did not like her cackle". It was known for quite awhile that the Party had shoved Bernie under the bus.Tulsi Gabbard resigned very early in the campaign over it. Hard to stop the Clinton machine. Yes, I went on to support Hillary after Bernie lost as an anyone other than Trump candidate. She was the only one that stood a chance. Now because of low IQ voters we are seeing the country systematically destroyed. It is like watching a rerun of the Bush administration only worse.
#16
stopgap. Yes, how is it possible to compromise with shameless liars and thieves who seek to rob the poor and the middle class, with those who would deny sick people treatment, with institutional rascism that looks the other way while cops gun down blacks and Hispanics disproportionately, with widespread, long-term vote-stealing -- with pure evil on a grand scale?
You can't and you shouldn't! Mealy-mouthed compromise ("I have returned from Germany with peace for our time." -- Neville Chamberlain) has proven to be the most critical strategic error of the Democratic Party in the aftermath of all the disastrous, 5-4, right-wing Supreme Court giveaways to Fascist Meeerkkka. Now, the modern-day corporate wage-slavers, the "Masters of the Universe" and Wall Street, control our destiny with their Walmart-wannabe system of nonunion sweat houses and predatory plantations, like Amazon, sprawled across the land of the working poor.
changeX, Legend: good points all. If only honest Republicans (Are there any left?) had assessed Trump's moral fiber with the same, crawl-up-yo-ass scrutiny that dishonest Republicans (the vast majority) had reserved exclusively for "Hellary" then our nation would not now be the butt of jokes by allies and enemies alike.
Other than just more of their stock delusions, deflections, and dishonesty, pissant Republican propagandists -- and popular-vote losers -- cannot come up with any rational explanation for their double-standard, blind hypocrisy. Though never let it be said that it's not for lack of trying.
#17
Thank you DR and thanks ou812 for your comment a couple days ago.
and sg this is for you...
Referring to Donald Trump, Clinton said:
“If that f – – – ing bastard wins, we all hang from nooses! Lauer’s finished…and if I lose it’s all on your heads for screwing this up.”
So, Crooked Hillary fears the gallows, eh? Interesting.
Hillary’s face during Matt Lauer’s unscripted question on emails. Isn’t she lovely?
https://70news.wordpress.com/2016/10/17/hillary-clintons-meltdown-calls-...
Also...
Did Donna Brazile throw Hillary under the bus in revenge for being called a ‘brain dead buffalo?’
or you might like this one better...
California’s Attorney General Xavier Becerra And The Awan Scandal
https://disobedientmedia.com/2017/10/californias-attorney-general-xavier...
#18
Classic deflection from the catastrophe that is the Trump and Republican clown show. Circle jerk references, using right-wing sources who cite other right-wing sources in the same delusional bubble (i.e., "...according to the Daily Caller ... to Circa ...to Judicial Watch ...to whatever..."). What does any of it have to do with the topic of this thread or with speaking truth to power -- you know, those who actually have power in Washington DC and are actively in the process of finalizing fascism in America and the rule of the corporate hive mind?
#19
So anything the left has done or is doing is fine with you? Just hide all that because Donna and Elizabeth are sooo right wing?
Or hide head in sand and just bash the right no matter what. Whenever CNN starts to report the news I'll be glad to link to them. Talk about deflecting.
I read Thom, listen to Amy Goodman and NPR, it really won't hurt the left to hear or see a little news from the right, no need to stay in a bubble.
The corporate hive mind has been doing just fine the last 50 years or so. They didn't start in 2016.
Does Hillary still have an iron grip on the DNC finances or has that contract been canceled?
Momma said to clean up my own house before I go help clean someone elses.
#20
Sorry Mr. Ed, the topic is absurd comments.
@#17
HotCoffee
I always liked this list of documented quotes from the wannabee first lady better. I will let Rick Steves do the fact checking for you.
"1) “Where is the God damn flag? I want the God damn fucking flag up every morning at fucking sunrise”. Hillary to staff at the Arkansas Governor’s mansion on Labor Day 1991. From the book “Inside the White House” by Ronald Kessler, p. 244
(2) “Fuck off! It’s enough I have to see you shit-kickers every day! I’m not going to talk to you, too! Just do your Goddamn job and keep your mouth shut.” Hillary to her State Trooper bodyguards after one of them greeted her with “Good Morning.” From the book “America Evita” by Christopher Anderson, p.90
(3) “If you want to remain on this detail, get your fucking ass over here and grab those bags!” Hillary to a Secret Service Agent who was reluctant to carry her luggage because he wanted to keep his hands free in case of an incident. From the book “The First Partner” p. 25
(4) “Stay the fuck back, stay the fuck back away from me! Don’t come within ten yards of me, or else! Just fucking do as I say, Okay!!?” Hillary screaming at her Secret Service detail. From the book “Unlimited Access” by Clinton ‘s FBI Agent-in-Charge, Gary Aldridge, p.139
(5) “Where’s the miserable cock sucker?” (otherwise known as “Bill Clinton”) Hillary shouting at a Secret Service officer. From the book “The Truth about Hillary” by Edward Klein, p. 5
(6) “You fucking idiot” Hillary to a State Trooper who was driving her to an event. From the book “Crossfire” ~pg. 84
(7) “Put this on the ground! I left my sunglasses in the limo. I need those fucking sunglasses! We need to go back!” Hillary to Marine One helicopter pilot to turn back while in route to Air Force One. From the book ” Dereliction of Duty” p. 71-72
(8) “Come on Bill, put your dick up! You can’t fuck her here!!” Hillary to Gov. Bill Clinton when she spots him talking with an attractive female. From the book “Inside the White House” by Ronald Kessler, p. 243
#21
Good job Diane r,
So much truth some people don't want to hear.
#22
Oh bullsh*t! Classic false equivalency: "...it really won't hurt the left to hear or see a little news from the right, no need to stay in a bubble."
"A little news?!" Right-wing lies have been carpet-bombing America nonstop for decades. Only the gullible and the naive would call heavy brainwash and propaganda "news." That's why so many goddamn fools voted for Trump the Liar. Yes, it absolutely does hurt -- everybody in this failing democracy! And no, it is not necessary to "hear or see" lies to understand truth.
Jaysus!
#23
I don't know why all the Secret Service men Diane posted...Donna Brazille and Elizabeth Waren, Bernie Sanders too, would lie about Hillary.. And why the FBI would lie about DWS, Becerra and Awan.
Maybe you can explain it to me?
#24
DianeyWorld: Is that why you are honoring Chelsea Clinton by adopting her alias as your moniker -- because her mother knows how to cuss? Imitation is the highest form of flattery.
BTW, citing rumor and innuendo from disgruntled Hillary haters populating the Hate Clinton Industry, cranking out endless Bill and Hillary hate books, shows the paucity of your research.
What does Hillary bashing (most of it meaningless drivel, unsubstantiated lies, or both) have to do with the much bigger sins and slapstick incompetency of Trump in the White House (Shudder!) and Republicans in Congress (LMAO!)? Not a goddamn thing!
Deflecting from the important issues of the day -- the huge problems that are being exacerbated by Trump and his party on a daily basis -- is not fooling anyone on this blog except yourself and your fellow Trump trolls.
#25
Tulsi Gabbard is the best person the DNC had to offer and DWS made sure to get her out of the DNC...too bad....if the left was smart they would run Tulsi next time, but it won't happen. Kamala is out there being anointed by the Hillary purse strings.
ds....you can yell Trump Trolls until the cows come home...it doesn't fix a thing.
There are more elections comming up in case you didn't know.
#26
deepspace #18 you beat me to it. "What does any of it have to do with the topic of this thread". Respond to the topic blunder twin!
With this new information, i am beginning to like Hillary even more. What other useful information do you have for us?
#27
"Trump troll" is exactly the right label for right-wingers who post on liberal blogs primarily to insult "lefties/socialists" (nearly every opening line), spread debunked Republican lies (nearly every post), consistently defend Trump despite his malignant personality disorder, vindictive pettiness, and pathological lies, cite right-wing garbage sites, promote fascism, deny basic reality, and otherwise engage in general displays of winger dumbassery. So if the shoe fits...
And amateur-cum-pro political pundits think that compromising with all of the above is a way for Democrats to win in 2018? Never take strategic advice from the enemy ...or from turncoats.
#28
It appears that some leftie/socialists can’t deal with any opposing views. It must bolster their ego to know you are always correct 100% of the time which is why their arrogance following the last election cycle is so delightful to watch and refute. God forbid anything or anyone from the other, or even the same, side throw in their 2¢.
Headlines like this must send them into orbit.
Democrats are lying about Republican tax plan, says Washington Post fact-checker
Or
4 Philadelphia election workers charged with fraud, voter intimidation
Merry Christmas anyway and remember only four more days until your protests can be vocalized in a sensible manner, although I am very concerned that your combined screeching toward the sky could throw an inordinate amount of carbon dioxide into the air resulting in another polar bear going home without dinner.
My ear protection is at the ready.
#29
Deepspace, These Trolls can't seem to do simple math that would prove to them that Hillary actually won the popular vote by 3 million votes. How many votes do they think a candidate has to win by before they are actually deemed the victor? If they can't do simple math then why do they think that anything else they say should be believed?
#30
stopgap. They are revealed by their own words.
"My ear protection is at the ready." In poker that's a tell, a visibly self-conscious admission -- jitters when you know that you are bluffing (lying), and you know that everyone else at the table also knows it.
AKA Chelsea continuously reinforces her credentials as a gullible Trump troll with calorie-free distractions from the larger truths of this Administration and Congress and their penchant for Washington-speak bafflegab.
It's a new take on an old joke: The most contested piece of real estate in America is that five-foot strip of land between a gaggle of Republican lawmakers and a bank of microphones and cameras, as they trip all over each other in their mad dash to lie directly to the American People about healthcare "reform," tax "reform," and just about every other Republican policy initiative. "Oh but, it primarily helps the middle class, not our wealthy donors ...'cross our hearts and hope to die.' [FDR]" -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3RHnKYNvx8
#28 is a classic example. Cantankerous ol' Granny loves to kick sand, throwing out lots of childish insults, false accusations, and subjective psychobabble, but then serves up nothing but thin gruel with no meat, citing a right-wing spin doctor at a right-wing website who engages in selective reporting while ignoring the bigger picture. HOLY COW! HOLD THE PRESS! Some Democratic lawmakers got a minor talking point wrong as they speculated about leaked information on a bill that hadn't even been released yet. "I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"
And for good measure, she throws into her witch's brew an anecdotal non sequitur in the form of a pithy news item, which does not prove anything, let alone a wider trend of election fraud by the Democratic Party -- and yet, not a word about the very real, widespread, institutionalized, Republican election fraud perpetrated against the entire nation for decades.
The Best Democracy Money Can Buy by Greg Palast.
But enough of dead-end wingerism; for a sunnier day, stick with actual truth tellers. I feel sorry for Trump trolls who think simple truth sounds like a liberal conspiracy. It must be maddening waking up every morning to the false reality of a babbling buffoon making America "great" (again?). (What? Back last century when a younger version of a racist New York real estate mogul, borrowing billions and sticking it to the taxpayers, was an item?)
Anyway, from a Nobel Prize economist, the truth about the lies:
https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2017/10/14/lies-lies-lies-lies-lies-lies-lies-lies-lies-lies/
#31
Mr. Ed sez, “You're not Mommy the Monitor. This is a free-speech zone, so post as much or as little as your black heart desires. If you can't handle my politically incorrect posts, then don't read them and don't respond.”
#32
Why thank you, Chelsea. Copying and pasting is the best form of flattery. But your point is ...?
Really? Re-posting a fragment of my past musings is your only retort to honest critiques of resident trolls' obvious right-wing falsehoods? If you are insinuating hypocrisy, then why not do so in your own words and explain why instead of hiding behind someone else's? As it stands, you are lying once again by way of false equivalency and out-of-context mischaracterization. Is it so hard to be honest?
Besides, you're entirely missing the motivation here for merriment and mirth. Albeit exasperating at times -- like shushing a crib full of crybabies -- I love it when brainwashed little trolls reveal the complete idiocy of right-wing dogma, providing easy targets of opportunity on which to sharpen one's teeth. IOW, keep the hits right on a-comin', Granny! What would we do without poor lil' you to pick on all the time? You know, trolling a troll -- it's great fun!
#33
#34
I like polar bears.
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Is John Kelly willing to destroy his own personal reputation and the way that he is treated by history just to help Donald Trump?
You're right, it is looking like that. But why?
And thank you for bringing out all those compromises that were indeed made before the Civil War, for much of the first half of the nineteenth century in fact; to no avail in the end. (We should keep that fact in mind, or more properly Democratic politicians should keep it in mind, when they are tempted to try yet another compromise with the hard right.)
But wait--looking again at Eric Haywood's tweet--maybe one more compromise? Maybe if the North and South could have agreed that slaveholders couldn't own Black people but could just rent them. Yeah, that would have worked. I'm sure.