Why The Founding Fathers Would Impeach Trump Now!
By Thom Hartmann A...
What happens when billionaires install their government at the highest levels of the United States? This is THE question that nobody seems to be asking and frankly nobody's answering.
What we're seeing, this dysfunction, this general insanity, you've got Ezra Klein over at vox.com saying, "well, impeachment is a political process and you don't have to prove that the president is either crazy (twenty-fifth amendment) or criminal (the impeachment clause) because Alexander Hamilton in the The Federalist Papers said impeachment is a political remedy for political problems etc., etc.
You've got the president Donald Trump tweeting at the wrong Theresa May. It's some poor woman in the UK whose middle name is May going, "what the hell?"
And the British are really seriously upset about this. I mean, he tweeted a picture of a Dutchman beating up a Dutchman and said it was a Muslim beating up a Dutchman.
But all of this craziness has been brought to us by over a billion dollars of money coming out of the Koch network, coming out of the Mercer family, coming out of Shelly Adelson in the last election cycle, from literally a few thousand multimillionaires and billionaires. And they have bought our government.
Public Citizen, the group that Ralph Nader started back in the 60s, is still running, still doing great work. They just issued a press release. The headline says the whole thing. The Koch brothers are in the White House. "44 Trump Administration Officials Have Close Ties to the Koch Brothers, Public Citizen Finds":
"44 Trump administration officials have close ties to the Koch brothers and their political groups, particularly Vice President Mike Pence, White House Legislative Affairs Director Marc Short, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Administrator Scott Pruitt, and White House Budget Director Mick Mulvaney..."
I would add Ryan Zinke to that list.
"Of the Koch allies who are working in the administration, most are in the White House, with 21 officials working there or nominated for White House jobs. Koch allies also are staffing jobs at the EPA, the Interior Department, the Energy Department and the Treasury Department. The positions they are advocating overlap with the Kochs' economic interests in weakening regulatory enforcement, lowering corporate taxes, loosening environmental regulations and opening up public land to oil and gas extraction.
The Kochs already have achieved the majority of goals contained in "Roadmap to Repeal" - a policy document published in January 2017 by Freedom Partners, a Koch group."
Robert Weissman, the president of Public Citizen, says...
"Donald Trump is turning the Koch brothers' corporate extremist fantasies into reality."
So we're having this moment in the United States where we're all struggling with: what do we do with a president who is, according to people in the White House, nuts. I mean some of the quotes literally coming out of the White House coming out of the senior aides to Donald Trump saying this guy is deranged, this guy is out of control, this guy doesn't understand the consequences of his actions.
He's walking us into a nuclear war with North Korea. He's antagonizing our allies. He's breaking up our international alliances. It is total chaos.
Is this just Steve Bannon deconstructing the administrative state now by proxy? Or is it something much greater than that?
I think it's something much, much greater than that. Ezra Klein makes this brilliant case over at vox.com, "The case for normalizing impeachment" - that impeachment is, as I said earlier, just a political process.
This is Alexander Hamilton in the Federalist Papers, No. 65, where he talks about impeachment. He says impeachment will...
"proceed from the misconduct of public men."
A direct quote from Alexander Hamilton, one of the guys who wrote the Constitution...
"proceed from the misconduct of public men, or, in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated POLITICAL,"
And Hamilton, as he often did in the Federalist Papers, puts the word political in all caps...
as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself."
James Madison, referred to by many as the father of the Constitution...
"The wanton removal of meritorious officers would subject him to impeachment and removal."
You know, if the president just starts firing people because he doesn't like them (James Comey) that's grounds for impeachment according to the guy who helped write the Constitution, who kept the notes for the Constitution, who studied for five years before August of 1787 all the constitutions of every country on earth, basically, and put this thing together.
So we're we're having these voices who are saying is it that he's a narcissist and he's deranged? Is it that he is in early stage dementia? Joe Scarborough keeps pointing this out - go back and look at videos of Donald Trump being interviewed in the 80s - that he is sharp, he is to the point, he speaks in complete sentences, he speaks in complete paragraphs. No more.
What has happened to this guy's mind?
So we're having all these conversations but nobody is having what I think is the much larger and more important conversation, the real big picture here.
What nobody is talking about is that if a group of billionaires had not read the Powell memo in 1971 when Lewis Powell wrote to his neighbor and friend Eugene Syndor, the Director of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and said, "you know, up until now, up until 1971, business in the United States has been not just afraid - unwilling to engage in politics because we see our mission, business always saw its mission, as being part of the community, good stewards of the community, good employers and providers of goods and services."
And Powell said, "no, it's not enough, we've got to seize political power, we have to get control of universities, we have to create think tanks, we have to get control of the media, we have to get control of the political system, we have to pack the courts."
All of that is happening right now. For the last two years of the Obama administration virtually no judges were approved, including one for the Supreme Court, Merrick Garland, because the Republicans wanted to stack up hundreds of court vacancies to the point where John Roberts wrote a letter to Congress saying this is a judicial emergency.
So they're packing the courts. In the 70s they started creating these think tanks. Charles Koch changed his foundation's name to Cato Institute. The Heritage Foundation was created. The list goes on and on and on, right, all this stuff.
And they have done it! They've pulled it off in 30 years. We now have a corporate coup in America. And it's not just a corporate coup, it's also a billionaire coup. They are running the game. They're running the system.
They're putting their people into place for their own purposes as Public Citizen pointed out. They want their paper mills to be more profitable by dumping more poison in the air. They want their oil refineries to be more profitable by dumping more poison in our water and our air, all the cancer clusters downwind from Texas.
It's all going to get worse as we continue through this thing.
Trump talks about, "oh, we've got these great legislative achievements now, so far, we've done more than any president in history."
What was his first legislative accomplishment? Passing a law that made it legal for coal companies to dump their waste into the rivers of West Virginia and the rest of the country, of course, but that's where the whole thing started.
How is that an accomplishment? Oh, that's right, it increases the profits of the coal companies.
Does it help the miners? No, of course not. In fact, disposing of coal waste is a fairly labor-intensive job, it requires equipment and people, and people to design the equipment, and people to maintain the equipment. But we don't need all that - we can just dump it in the river - that takes one guy with a dump truck.
This is their legislative end. This is just like micro to the macro, at every level: blowing up the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau (CFPB) as Richard Cordray is on his way out. CFPB has recovered 13 billion dollars for Americans and distributed it.
What was the first thing Mick Mulvaney did when he went in there? He said, "stop! No more payments to consumers. That's money you took from the big banks."
Of course, they committed fraud to have to pay those fines but "hey, they're the big banks, they financed my election."
We have a corruption problem in this country.
We have a crazy president problem in this country.
We've got a Congress that's sold-out problem in this country.
And all of it, or much of it, you can track back to 1976 when Lewis Powell, who was put on the Supreme Court by Nixon, authored the Buckley decision and said the First Amendment protects the rights of billionaires to own politicians.
It's been all downhill since then.
Comments
#2
One deep and important reason why no one is asking the question of what happens when billionaire's install their own government is tied to the actions of Thommmmm Hartmannnn and company via their redirect ofcurious and thinking people's questions about the moment when the billionaires engineered the installation in the face of positive, popular public concern, growing public inclusion in politics, potential investigative media, and sociopolitical opposition: the coup of1963, the moment when private burueacratic interest overpowered public office in American politics. It wasn't the mafia, Thomm. But you own the hamster wheel, now.
#3
The tax cut for the wealthy will allow them to further bribe the Congress and get even more. They expect a Return On Investment and get it. This is Fascism in warp speed. You right wing trolls voted for and support it.
#4
Mainstream news may not be covering it but I see I see desperate spouses and parents screaming at the Republahblah governors. It' ain't going to well for them. Well, we will see how they go.. er, it goes.
#5
Dang, you mean Trump & Koch's are doing what Obama and Soros were doing???
How long has this been going on......
#6
Here are some costs after prop 187 won in California and was overturned by the court in 1994.
This does not include the feds expenditures.
A nickle here a nickle there pretty soon your talking real money.
https://howmuch.net/articles/state-by-state-costs-of-illegal-inmigrationThat being said, here’s a list breaking down the States with the highest expenditures for illegal immigration according to FAIR.
1. California - $23,038,125,353
2. Texas - $10,994,614,550
3. New York - $7,489,141,357
4. Florida - $6,290,429,108
5. New Jersey - $4,466,838,574
6. Illinois - $3,220,767,517
7. Georgia - $2,487,719,503
8. North Carolina - $2,437,965,113
9. Maryland - $2,378,996,947
10. Arizona - $2,314,131,964
And this is before Ca. hired Eric Holder and a new legal force to defend Illegal immigrants.
#7
Hotcoffee, you have totally avoided my question about inheritance tax. Now that YOUR list of billionaires, and the vast sums that they have, will no longer have their heirs paying any taxes on these vast sums that they did not earn. Because of this they will have to cut spending on medicare and Medicaid for children. Are you for these vast sums not being taxed at your expense? Answer the question, do not avoid as you have in the past.
#8
@#7 Legend:
Quit trying to bully people. Speaking of answering questions, you never answerd mine. Why are you still living in the USA, when you say life is so much better elsewhere. "Answer the question, do not avoid as you have in the past." :))
#9
Legend
1. It's not my list
2. I do not owe you answers to anything
3. I believe they should pay taxes.
4. The money the treasury has "borrowed from social security et al" needs to be paid back.
5. Everyone under 62 capable of working should be and not fighting at walmart for their cheap 54" TV's.
6. We shouldn't have secret funds in congress paying taxpayer money to cover perverts. $17 million or so.
7. Just try to find a financial breakdown of your state. There are so many gov. agencies you can't even find all of them. No waste there i'm sure.
* I just showed several billions of dollars in the above post that could have gone into services for citizens. Unless you think we can take care of the entire world??
Hope that answers some of your questions.
#10
ou812,
Amen.
#11
#8. I recently answered that question. I will answer it again for you. I was a Vietnam War protestor in my teens. People like you were saying "Love it or Leave it". I was proven to be right. We wasted trillions of dollars for a corrupt war and lost 450000 american soldiers lives for nothing. Not to mention the wounded, Vietnamese losses etc. We now consider Vietnam a number 1 trading partner. Because I was right, your type should leave the country for the damage that you did.
#12
#9. You did not answer any questions. Where do you stand on inheritance tax. The Fascist Repubicans are eliminating it. Answer the question.
#13
#12
Did you not read #3 of my post????
And I also opposed the Viet Nam war.
I'll keep this short so you can find your answer
THEY SHOULD PAY TAXES.
#14
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#15
@11 Legend:
You are staying in the USA because someone like me told you to "Love it or Leave it". So you are staying because of me....Aw that's sweet....Crazy, but sweet .Just to refresh you rememberance of history. The Democrats started the war in Vietnam, and Richard Nixon (a Republican) ended it....And now you want me to leave the country...I guess for a better life, that's what you say I'll find...That's crazy too.....So I guess crazy is the answer. You're staying because you're crazy:))
#16
@
#17
Not much human love and understanding in this convo... jeez!
#18
Legend
You can be as pissed as you want but the voters warned the establishment long before the election they did NOT want anymore Clintons or Bushes. It's not the voters fault they ran Hillary & Jeb. The repubs just found a way around that problem and the Dems didn't.
Or actually they did, tried to run Bernie but madame pantsuit cheated her way to the election.
Now you can Gripe forever or you can run someone else next time like the Repubs had to do after Obama.
I don't believe the dems or repubs ( voters not politicians ) want Soros or Kochs running our policies...so neither group is getting what they want. Being crappy to each other won't fix a thing...it's what they ( Soros & Koch ) want. Get it??? Vote with your $$$ in the meantime...just don't buy their stuff.
Most heirs don't do well handling the money they get and either piss it away lose it in other ways.
#19
Rick Steves, other peoples money is none of your business just as an individual moving from one state to another just to avoid high taxes. (sound familiar?)
I could care less if someone inherits a lot of money. That inherited money has been taxed over and over plus it will be taxed again when the kids piss it away as they most always do. Too many people here are disappointed in their lack of ability to save and manage their own funds. I laugh everytime I hear Hartmann tell his lemmings only the "rich" have an money in the stock market. Clearly he has no knowledge of company, unions both public and private, not to mention any of the those where smart enough to invest in 401k or Roth IRA's which ALL have money invested in the US stock market. In spite of what Hartmann's offshore "girls" tell him, when the market us up the economy is prospering.
#20
So the cult of Trump lying hypocrites that were so appalled by the massive deficit, are now bending over and spreading their cheeks as a way of thanking their insane pussy-grabbing, child fucking president and the lying, child fucking, greedy Republican senators for the privilege of being totally ripped off to make their rich overlords immorally richer by robbing the treasury and ballooning the deficit, thereby threatening the viability of the government itself and the economic security of everyone but the richest of the rich.
Good work!!! No one deserves the despair and misery that this economic armageddon will result in, than the cult of bigoted, greedy, delusional followers of the Church of Trump.
#21
Yup... we have always had "taxation without representation" thus the words of the founders is reduced to "marketing collateral" to sell their product: Their legalized economic entitlement... not yours and mine... "theirs." It follows the same "sales strategy" implementee in the Nazi Concentration camp Motto: "work will make you free" or in teh inscription on the Statute of Liberty: "Give us your tired an hungry" and we'll figure out a way to profit from them. Our Presidential Motto should now read: "A day without Trump is a day without prunes"
#22
This is simply a repeat of the Bush administration. With a crazy perverted idiot at the helm. The results will be the same. Economic crash. Massive Tax cuts for the wealty + massive defense spending increases = economic disaster.
#23
Hierarchical human competition is built into the human genome. Even democracies will always sort themselves out by relative status: money. However, we have proxy politicians now: falsely elected stand-ins for the financial interests of competing millionaires and billionaires--"the donor class". Thus we have a fascist state, as Thom has courageously pointed out. Our democratic experiment only works with an independent central government, sworn to represent the general public and forward the interests of our United States, including the regulation of Capitalist excesses with Glass-Steagal (sp?), the CFPD, Dodd-Frank, HONEST TAX REFORM, labor unions, etc. This current "tax reform", which is actually flat out thievery from the less fortunate and weak, with no economic justification of any sort, will further stratify our society economically. The only real question now is just how much repression and oppression the bottom 50% will endure. Revolution is becoming an inevitability. Us old SDSers are smiling, unless we were in Chicago in 1969, when the Days of Rage resulted in some property damage, but, also, 31 young zealots with GSW's and many other serious injuries, including the paralysis of the mayor's assistant. Revoultions are a bloody mess and only of interest to those of us who've never been near one personally. We desperately need incresed regulation of Capitalist excess, in order to prevent a breakdown of civil society, ala FDR in the 1930's, when the wealthy were taxed at a 95% rate IN ORDER TO SAVE AMERICA FROM A COMMUNIST STYLE REVOLUTION. The uber riche believe they'll find a place to hide, as they've managed to hide their money. Good luck with that one. We may, afterall, be forced to "eat the rich". God help us!
#24
Our Reverse Robin Hood Republicans in the Senate have just turned the US Congress into a massively deadly "death panel!"
#25
Birdbrain: you are the poster boy/girl/alphabet answer as to why so many people voted to elect President Trump. You irrational ranting has added a thousand birthdays to the daily Christmas morning so many of us enjoy. Move back from the cliff, seek therapy, and smoke lots of pot or consider Xanax.
#26
Ha ha, the lady with a dildo in her mouth for an avatar thinks she has anything important to say!
#27
{{ No one deserves the despair and misery that this economic armageddon will result in, than the cult of bigoted, greedy, delusional followers of the Church of Trump. }}
Right on, stopgap!
#28
Stopgap,
I hope children aren't reading this site...you really should clean up your adjectives.
#29
It appears somebody here has a fascination with the penis.
#30
Sheldon Adelson not Shelly Adelson
#31
#15, Actually Eisenhower sent the first troops into Vietnam and had the first troop deaths. But when Johnson escalated the war, and was a big investor in Bell helicopter and supported by Brown and Root I protested againt the Democratic Administration gone wild. Now that you have a Republican Party that has gone wild do you protest? Yes Nixon pulled us out of Vietnam but only after extending it by several years and thousands of deaths by sabatoging the Johnson peace negotiations.
#32
HC you seem to be fixated on George Soros. He mainly gave support to the Democratic Party because he hated George W Bush policies. Has done very little since. You might read up on him.the Kochs have donated billions to their cause.
#33
Dearest Diane Chelsea Clinton Reynolds and Hot Coffee, I'm sorry if the actions of Republican politicians are offensive to you. But, by the time Trump and his criminal cabal of billionaire oligarchs are finished, my profanity used to describe those actions will be the least of the children's problems.
By the time Trump and his gang of rightwing thugs are done making the air unbreathable, the water undrinkable, the climate unlivable and the economy dysfunctional (just like Bush tried to do before him) and all government services and Social Security, Medicare and the treasury bankrupted (just like Trump's casinos) then the "children" will be lucky if they get to celebrate Christmas under a freeway overpass with the rancid scraps of tossed out Christmas leftovers that they are able to scrounge out of the well-to do's trash. That is if we are not all incinerated by a nuclear holocaust resutling from Trump's chldish insults to Kim.
Maybe they will be able to scrape up a little money performing sexual favors for Senator Roy Moore? No doubt if Roy Moore is elected, other Republican politicians will feel emboldened to become child molesters too!
I notice that you don't seem offended by OH YOU ATE ONE TWOs despicable, sexist logo. But hell, he's a Republican and its all right for him to come on this site picturing Michelle Bachman about to go down on a phallic corn dog, captioned Ou812, no doubt this is his sick Gay bashing way of implying that all liberals are just a bunch effete homosexuals. Actually, because of his fixation on this image, I've naturally presumed that he is a self-hating closet homosexual crying out for help.
And Hot Coffee, your "Love This Site" is typical of what you expect to hear from every right troll that comes on every Progressive radio show when they begin talking about what a big fan they are, and how they are long time Democrats, before suddenly wandering off the rail with their Fox News talking points.
But as ever, like the good cult members that you are, you still can't fathom the fact that Hillary got about 3 million more votes than Trump. Still not able to accept the affect of Russian influence and collusion (actually, you probably accept it…just don't care) to make sure that Trump wins. Still not able to accept that Operation Cross Check purged thousands upon thousands of minority voters from the polls. Still not able to accept the purging of minority voters by voter ID laws. Could care less what effect extreme gerrymandering had on the election. Still not able to accept what possibilities, hackable and unverifiable voting machines had on the election. Only the result mattered to you!
Again, "…insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." Here the Republicans go again. Only this time there may well be no going back. Heil Trumpler!!!!!! And You're calling me sick????????
#34
Stopgap
1. I never said I voted for Trump...I said I didn't vote for Hillary...I said I did vote for Bernie ...then I didn't say what I did.
2. Your presumpsions are so wrong.
3. Why didn't you worry about the children in Hatti the Clintons ripped off.
4. If your upset about repubs why doesn't the Clinton Bush team bother you.
5. Ask Hungry about what a great guy Soros is...you can google it. I'll post more later on Soros. So, I thought you didn't want Billionaires running the show...except Dem supporting Billionaires???
6. I have no clue who ou812 is or who you are..and you have no idea who I am.
7. The treasury robbed social security long ago.
8. Calling me a troll doesn't bother me a bit...go for it. It does cause me to wonder about your assesment of people in gereral.
9. I don't care if Hillary got 30 million more votes she knew how the game is played and if she had won and Trump used that excuse you would be as livid as you are that he won.
10. If you don't realize that Bill Clinton ( welfare reform ) did nothing to save the people and Hillary who called black people super predators is not your friend...that she is a two faced liar..then so be it. And then there is Janet Reno happy to burn up babies
11. We are in deep poop and dems and repubs hating each other takes the focus off the real problems. Actually hate is a poison people are drinking by the gallons.
If Trump goes down so be it...But Hillary needs to go down too. Trumps snake song fit her perfectly. I promise you I'm not the only Dem that believed that.
12. If you don't like me trying to get that across to anyone I can...well too bad.
I believe I mentioned before no matter who's in office we don't seem to win...left right left right...and on and on.
And thank you for cleaning up your discriptions it reflects better on you.
#35
HC,
1. I never said you voted for Trump!
2. Where the fuck is Hatti?
3. Numbering sentences doesn't make them any more true or valid.
If all you say about Hillary is true, then how could you have voted for someone who had been so easily duped by Hillary? As soon as Hillary locked up the nomination, Bernie enthusiastically jumped on board the Hillary train, praising Hillary, campaigning for Hillary, fundraising for Hillary and giving a passionate speech at the convention endorsing Hillary.
If you think that I'm so naive, birdbrained and stupid for voting for Hillary, then how could you have voted for someone who by all appearances was even more naive, birdbrained, and stupid? Shouldn't that have disqualified him by your reckoning? Why would you vote for someone that was in a better position to have been able to have seen and believed all the things that you see and believe about Hillary, but went ahead and passionately joined the Hillary team anyway? It doesn't make any fucking sense!!!
If everything you say about Hillary is true, then wouldn't that have made Bernie naive and stupid or a hypocrite? Or maybe he is just another political hack that would compromise his values by running as a Democrat and compromising his values by later endorsing Hillary. Wouldn't that make him just another political hack doing and saying anything just to keep his political career alive and therefore the same as Trump and Hillary?
But I guess I'm naive and stupid like Bernie. I know you won't believe it, but when Bernie first announced his candidacy, I was among the first wave of those to donate to his campaign and added another donation later on. I never donated a penny to Hillary or the Democratic party which I have my own differences with. I further voted for Bernie in the primary over Hillary. But when Hillary won the nomination, like Bernie, I refused to cut off my nose to spite my face.
You may have not voted for Trump but you sure love spooning with the Trump supporters to the point that no one here can see the difference. Even the Trumpers can't tell the difference! No doubt you're hatred for the Clintons has led you to continue to stew and obsess over Hillary to the extreme that no one can make any point about Trump, that you won't bring it back to you're hatred for Hillary.
What the fuck does Hillary have to do with the current conversation anyway? Hillary is not the president! Hillary is gone! Hillary is ancient history! Hillary has little effect on my life but Trump affects very aspect of my life. Stewing about and obsessing about Hillary at this point is a total waste of time. How can this constant ranting about someone that no longer has anything to do with the process unite the nation? Why are we expected to catalog all of your Fox News, Brietbart, Republican think tanks accusations about Hillary every time we try to make any point about Trump? Why do we have to waste our time covering this territory over and over again?
As long as the Republicans peruse their immoral, treasonous and profane agenda, I will utilize the language that best mirrors that profanity.
#36
Totally agree with Stopgap. If you cannot see the damage that this administration is doing to the country by now, then you probably never will.
#37
@#35
1. I never said you voted for Trump!
2. Where the fuck is Hatti?
3. Numbering sentences doesn't make them any more true or valid.
Your point #3 is a true classic.
#38
Diane Chelsea Clinton Reynolds, Is there a point to your #37 post? Or is it just more evidence of vacuous conservative mental instability?
#39
A few quotes from just the last week or so begs the question, who really has the mental stability issues?
"their insane pussy-grabbing, child fucking president and the lying, child fucking, greedy Republican senators
But the peanut gallery of Trump supporters can't pull their heads out of his ample ass long enough to get oxygen to their brains…so we have this dumb-ass, heartless, moronic, nazi/fascist, bigoted, ignoramus clown tweeting-up shit-storms every day, making a total fool out of himself, alienating all our allies, while this cult of Republican lemmings are rushing to jump off the cliff with the rest of us in tow.
They can't get enough of kissing Trump's ring, then kissing his evil, corrupt, rotten ass.
This fucking pig president of theirs, was just caught tweeting fake videos as a way of validating his nazi fascist, bigoted program...and when caught, all his spokesperson Sarin-gas Huksterscumbag could say is, that its only the point that he was trying to make that mattered.
And now this shit-head Trump
Even though these despicable shit-heads on the Right can't get a thing through congress, they have been busy loading up the courts with lying, greedy, incompetents or religious fanatic nut-bags to enforce their power grab, while Trump with juvenile arrogant vindictiveness, goes about his mission to undo every action that Obama took to make the planet more livable"
#40
So, where is the insanity in truth? Though I will admit that responding to the daily, make that hourly, turd showers and shit storms of Republican troll propaganda and insanity is driving me, and every other progressive for that matter, a bit crazy. It's bad enough that we have to hear it from President pathological lying Pussy-grabber, let alone his cult of opposite reality loonies…."That's not me on that Access Hollywood tape."
One has to ask, what is the mission of the right-wing trolls that infest the site? Could it be the mission of these cult members of Trumpism is to cloud and paralyze the dialogue with buckets of Fox News manure? After all, they have all three branches of government, the military, law enforcement and tons and tons of money on their side. If their policies are so wonderful, the only thing that could stop them is reality. Therefore why waste your time here. Maybe another welcome mat would be more to your liking. One with some swastikas perhaps?
#41
Sg & Legend,
You are a great representation of the vile & putrid examples of why people are leaving the left in droves.
#42
HotCoffee, If you would permit me, I disagree a bit. I find nothing wrong with the "normal" leftie or rightie. Both have their points and I find I can agree with many on both sides. You often speak if working together to find a common ground. Many presidents have accomplished that to some degree, Clinton and Reagan immediately come to mind and other than a few little issues, both quite popular and successful in their accomplishments.
Here is a different story. This world is the very far left and me using the endearing term Leftie/socialists is a way too mild description of most aboard.
They accuse the right of pumping out "hate radio" ten times a day and yet they spend their entire three hour shows doing the same thing. In Thom Hartmann's case, Trump was elected and in the first ten minutes of his first show he advocated the Democrat party do exactly what he accused the Republicans doing during the Obama terms. Go figure.
This isn't a forum for sissy's. Buck up or shut up and remember their rules
1. Anytime they disagree, you are a racist, Nazi, homophobic, misogynistic, white privileged troll.
2. Anytime the other side wins an election, it must have been rigged, stolen, or the constitution needs to be re-written. If their side wins, it is always fair and square. (think Al Franken)
3. If it benefits them, re-interpretation of the US Constitution is always fair game and should be amended as such.
4. All of the above also apply to the wacko's on the right.
5. I'm going to the range and exercise my 2nd amendment rights.
6. I hope the pigeon likes the numbers so he/she/alphabet can follow along in order.
#43
Leaving the left in Droves? Where are they going? Are they going to the Republican Party so that they can make the 1% wealthier at thier expense? Where are they going?
#44
Wow! This right-wing "No Child Left Behind" Charter School education system is really paying off. Conservatives can now count up to 10. Some even up to 12. With 3 more years of Trump, maybe they will be able to count up to 20.
Reagan was senile and Trump and Sinatra were mobbed-up. Some recommendation for the Republican party!!!
For the last 40 years, the Republican party has pushed the limits of their right-wing, fascist, oligarchical extremism so far that even their great icon Reagan would have been primary-ed out of the party long ago. Nixon might be able to fit in again though?
Yes, it is virtually impossible to agree with anything Republican at this point. Even Joe Scarborough has had enough, along with a large number of other mainstream Republicans who have questioned the sanity and fitness of Trump.
#45
Despite dancing around the edges, there's no mistaking which side of the larger argument people are on. One either supports a fascistic, oligarchical, hybrid form of government, which welds together the ultimate power that Dwight Eisenhower warned us about in his Farewell Address ("The military-industrial complex"), or one doesn't.
Of course both major parties, along with the compliant media, are guilty of handing us Trump and his insane clown show, while the Koch agenda rots away the foundations of our dying democracy. But to anyone suggesting that both parties have been equally guilty in this decades-long build-up to fascism is the utmost false-equivalency argument and demonstrates just how much of the right's revisionist history has shaped the minds of corporate media's captive audience.
Unfortunately, there's no time to build an independent third party that would capture enough momentum and money in the fast-approaching midterms -- or for that matter, not become as corrupt as the bigger parties, due to Supreme Court rulings that made political bribery legal. On the ballot, when no one is looking, each conscientious citizen must decide personally which side of the fascistic divide he or she is on, and which party at this juncture poses the biggest threat to a People's government.
#46
@43 Legend
The Republican Party is where I went, where Ronald Reagan went, where Donald Trump went, where Frank Sinatra :)) went. I have made the 1% richer, but but my net worth increased many, many times since becoming a Republican....it was not becoming a Republican that increased my wealth (I'm not really a political animal) but changing my attitude is what done it....I stopped being a victim an expecting the government to take care of my needs.
#47
Diane,
I have no problem with anyones disagreements with my thinking, it makes for better conversation. I simply don't see a need for some like SG to be so vulgar about it. It doesn't bother me personally, but is does distract from discussing issues.
I think we will see many things come to light when the fbi invetigation is over.
Clintons and Soros Trump and Kochs all billionaires. Would love it if ALL billionaires were banned from politics....won't happen though.
#48
Deepspace, Thank Gawd! you're back. Been a bit tiresome treading water here in the shark tank.
I do agree with HC a little bit though. But why stop at limiting billionaires from flooding the political process with money? Why not take money out of the political process altogether?
Actually, Both president Bush and Obama increased my wealth. I bet against Bush and bet on Obama. Worked like a charm. I may not be fitly rich but I was positioned to live very comfortably for the rest of my life. Then Trump became president. All bets are off.
Its really a kick in the gut to have worked all your life to build up a comfortable retirement, only to have you're future placed into the hands of a irrational, unpredictable, corrupt, pathological lying dimwitted, criminal thug.
If Mulvaney is allowed to take over the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau, then there is no guarantee that any financial institution will stand by their commitments. You will be on your own. If they default, good luck! This is just one of many examples of Trump recklessness regarding protecting the investments of anyone that doesn't own these institutions, but depends on them to secure their retirements.
The Republican tax plan is guaranteed to be a rerun of all the failures of the Bush era. Same program, only this time on steroids! And I doubt that even the Republicans believe this tax plan will do anything promised.
However, the billionaire oligarchs see this as a slam-dunk opportunity to rob the Treasury blind, rob the Social Security and Medicare trust funds blind, steal public held properties that will be forced to be sold off at bargain basement prices to buddies of in-the-pocket politicians. Certainly, they believe nothing can stop them now in their quest to finalize their establishment of the ultimate fascist state.
Are you ready for some football? One of my vices is watching Sunday Night Football. I suggested that they turn some lions loose onto the field during the game to make it a bit more interesting. They haven't got back to me. So, I'll just have to be content with a concussion or two. I guess, I really am abad person!
#49
#46. Have never considered myself a victim and do not expect any support from the Government in my life. I also invest and know that the market does better with Democrats in control. You have obviously forgotten the market crashes under Bush and Reagan. This is fact. Your comments are not.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlazaroff/2016/07/26/democrats-vs-repub...
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/18/sam-stovall-2017-chart-of-the-stock-mark...
#50
I see the Koch/Libertarian trolls have really been poppin a nut, or ovary, whatever, the last couple days. Who knows why they think the billionaires still need their help??? ....kind of like sending donations to televangelists like Pat Robertson isn't it????
You'd think by now they'd be so ashamed and embarrassed by Crooked Donny and the party that he represents that they'd just crawl into a corner and pretend they never had that Trump sign in their front yard and or ever watched Foxaganda.
Self injurious political choice would be fine with me if it the consequences were isolated to only those making the misinformed voting decisions, but unfortunately we all end up getting screwed.
1692, 1865, 1929, 1945, each year clearly shows us a right and wrong, evil and just side ....The trolls posting on this site seem to have the delusion that truth is just a matter of opinion, that one can argue for and present the case that there is some kind of merit in extreme monetary gain and thus Totalitarian power for a relative few even if it means perpetual warfare, economic misery for the many, and eventual death of the entire planet.
Well I have one thing to say to you lost and confused souls....I hope your grandchildren don't read your posts 50 years from now...or maybe I do. You can't hide from being on the wrong side of history.
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The Founding Fathers would impeach Trump? Yeah, most likely, but then too they would have impeached Obama and George W Bush too! In fact, if the Founding Fathers could see us now, I serious think they would have just paid that damn tea tax.