How Can Conservatives Claim to be Pro Life and Still Oppose DACA?
By Thom Hartmann A...
I don't think that you can argue that a two-year-old decided to take a risk to come to this country with their parents, any more than you can argue that the African Americans decided to come over to the United States.
If they are illegal immigrants, that is a problem with the law because they were not illegal immigrants until Donald Trump pulled DACA. They had legal status in the United States until Donald Trump changed the law. Donald Trump blew up Barack Obama's executive order that created the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals" (DACA).
Conservatives don't seem to give a rat's ass about people once they're born, especially if they happen to be brought to this country by their parents. That seems to me like an insanely hypocritical position. Why the outrage?
Forty million Americans were born outside the United States; people who are American citizens. That's a good thing for our country.
The process that President Obama put into place was to say if you were a child when your parents brought you to this country and you had no say in that matter, you are not to blame, you are not at fault. And that's a core human value that anybody who values the right to life would value.
I don't understand why Conservatives would want to take a kid who came to the United States from say El Salvador at the age of two or three or four and who does not speak Spanish, does not know El Salvador, does not know where the bad gangs are and the awful people are. And they want to take that person and fly them down to El Salvador, just push them out of an airplane, virtually guaranteeing that their life is going to be ruined and they may well end up dead.
That sounds morally criminal to me, just horrific.
How can anyone who wants to do that claim that they support life?
Comments
#2
Thom, you already know the answer to your question =and= stated it in your post above. You went on further than you needed, but the essence is right here:
"Conservatives don't seem to give a rat's ass about people"
The only 'problem' with that, of course, is "seem to" -- there is -no- "seem to" about it! I know quite a few people who consider themselves "conservatives". Many of them even call themselves "Christians" .. but they're not.
The reason I say that is quite simple, but people =hate=, =HATE= hearing it. If you look -very- carefully at what Christ =actually= taught, his actual teachings as stated in the NT, they are almost completely different from what ::Paul:: used to make 'his' new religion. Paul claims to be about love and the (supposed) teachings of Christ. But Paul's religion is really about control [>=especially= about control!!<], hate, and doing what you're told .. .. and God forbit you should try to -think- on your own, much less notice the serious discrepancies in both doctine -and- practice!
In addition, "conservatives" are hypocrites of the first order .. and they don't care if you know it. They want what =they= want and to hell with -anyone- else, no matter who it is or what the ultimate 'cost' is. Unfortunately, one could call them "psychopaths" and -not- be far off the mark. No, that -is- =not= "name-calling", it is simply acknowledging the reality of what they are, based on their -own- words and actions.
Yes, this makes "dialog" with them very difficult, especially in politics. What people - both Progressives and so-called Democrats - =won't= -face- is that conservatives are totally uninterested in "dialog". They will ::pretend:: to engage in it when it serves their purposes, but not a millisecond longer. Their own words and actions prove it.
My only, and final, words to any of them: "Be -very-, =very= careful what you ask for, or even :think: you want, because if God gave it to you, you would be in -suuuuuch- deep $hit, you would then pray for a quick trip straight to Hell just to get out of it." ((And I would ROTFLMAO at you.))
#3
#1 and #2
Being Black does not prevent you from doing evil any more than being white does.
#2
I would suggest you be very careful that you speak truth when speaking for GOD
or you might find yourself Rolling in the mud crying your butt off.
#4
Racist, the same law applies to all illegal immigrants not just ones from Hispanic countries. If anyone is to blame it's the parents who put those kids in this mess. Yes I know, they where just trying to make a better life for their children but they still broke the law. Every other country in the world would have found them and sent them home long ago that is way they don't have this problem.
Trump has already agreed to let them stay if they simply stop chain immigration and beef up border security. What is wrong with that.
#5
Thom
What do you have against Childern that are citizens, that have parents that came here generations ago...many of them are living in our streets. Shouldn't we care for them first? Why are you so unwilling to see them, Why are you in favor of bringing in more? Why is it so hard for them to get help....no one is advocating special services...legal and otherwise for them. Ask any local motel how many children live there week to week.
Where is their advocate? Oh I forgot we advocate they be aborted.
#6
Very well said and written Mr. Hartmann. One fact that nobody has looked into is that we have spent tax dollars educate these young children through grade school up to high school and some college, now we will send these young adults back to a country that is not their home, giving their birth country the benefit of education that they have receive here in this country, which is a loss to us, which is a not a good deal for the American people, but a benefit to their birth nation. Maybe Mr. Trump can understand by not having a good deal for Americans, if we send these young adults back to their birth country, since he likes to use the word deal a lot, personally I do not think he knows the meaning of the word deal for the benefit of Americans.
#7
Maybe Trump Does Not Want a Wall
I think it is telling that He will undermine any attempt at an agreement in congress for a Wall or for DACA. These issues more than anything else got Trump in the White House. If he gets a deal on either, his all important loyal following will dissolve into arguments about whether he got enough. I heard this the other day on the radio and I don't know who said it but it makes perfect sense. Success on The Wall and DACA will destroy his support. This is the same cynical thinking that leaves the Republicants to avoid finality on abortion. Abortion, the Wall and DACA keep voters in line and campaign money flowing like the goose that lays the golden egg. I am beginning to think that as long as this 71 year old adolescent sits in the White house there will be no substantive movement on any of these issues.
#8
Our schools have gone to the dogs in the process of trying to deal with multiple languages and needs of so many from so many different countries. Then you complain we're dumbed down. Most of the immigrants are in California and our schools are in the toilet...they were once the best.
Trump has said He will let DACA children stay if you stop chain migration. Really seems fair enough..
I remember in the 60's the Dems kept telling us about our over population and how we should never have more than 2 children, people took them seriously....Now suddenly we have room for everybody. How many tents and cardboard shacks are leaning up against your house?
So where does California get more water, electricity, and housing? In S.F. the once nice Mission District now looks like it belongs in Hondurus or Argentina. Wake up!
Everyone deserves Respect & Dignity yet not even all my friends can fit in my house.
Lies & Politics...Politics & Lies.
After this is resolved....
I think it would be good if the educated DACA children could come and go from their countries as they please in order to teach, be doctors and attorneys and help better the countries they came from....help the people create a country they wouldn't want to leave. Or as some say Sh*tholes. They could see their extended families as they please. Just like the legal immigrants do now.
#9
My god what has happened to this country? The DACA issue is another Grapes of Wrath story. Humanity vs Inhumanity! We can afford to add trillions to the deficit in order to facilitate a massive transfer of wealth to lazy billionaires, yet have no compassion for hard working fellow citizens because of a manufactured right-wing distraction.
The immigration issue is a fascist creation meant to scapegoat the innocent for a problem Reagan started.....unregulated greed. The billionaires are the problem, not immigrants. Those who take advantage of desperate fellow human beings for self enrichment need to be prosecuted and deported.
If you ask me, after all of the environmental disrespect by the current regime, I think native americans should deport all of us.
#10
The Kochbaggers will never escape being attached to the current insanity ... people will look back in horror at all of the complete idiocy unfolding. Trump's willing participants will go down in history much like Hitler's gullible 1930's Germans.
#11
Personally I detested Regan from the time he put the mentally ill out in the street back when he was Govenor of Ca.
However I have 2 very special Mexican and 1 Salvadoran friend that became citizens during his Presidency. My Salvadorian friend goes to see his parents every winter. He just told us he is going in Febuary this year as we asked him if he wanted to help with building some houses after the fires in Ca.
We will be working together soon, as we have many times in the past.
Contrary to what Dems think you don't have to be racisist to see what is going on now isn't working and we can't bring the whole 3rd world here.
And for #2
Even Jesus said I go to prepare a place for you. Not everyone just sneak in willy nilly and lie about who you are with forged papers...all though Jesus said some will try by saying Master, Master didn't I cast out demons in your name. So much for the phoney christians.
#12
There was no need for DACA when immigration was from white countries.
#13
It's all about the wall. A huge beautiful wall that will bear his name and immortalize him for all to see. Border security be dammed. High tech will take care of that. What ever it takes, he wants his memorial.
#14
Hmm...
Too bad the DACA kids didn't come from Denmark...
Then this would all be a non-issue!
#15
HotCoffee
You talk about Jesus? What would Jesus do?...Really?!?
Just maybe, If the majority of this country's "Christians" weren't actually just a bunch of... "HYPOCHRISTIANS!" Then this truly would be a..NON-ISSUE!
#16
HotCoffee, You are 100% correct about the schools and immigration. They have been destroyed by political correctness, thus the burgeoning business of private schools (oh the horror).
This whole racist crap is a leftie/socialist agenda to divide people into small groups for voting purposes. They always do this with increasing fervor before elections. I caught a moment in Hartmann’s show when he actually asked his guest, why are the conservatives always dividing groups and promoting hatred? He then followed it up in his next 5 minute segment pushing the very same rants he accused the conservatives of doing. No offense to your moniker but I nearly spit my hot coffee all over my dashboard. This is leftie/socialist comedy at its finest.
I would love to see Thom and his therapist sit on a couch and be forced to listen to his show under the condition Thom not be allowed to utter one word until the entire three hour show was played. Eye opening for him to say the least. I could say the same for a number of other rightie or leftie talking bobbleheads but Thom ranks right up there at the top end of hypocritical lefties.
All said, I hope the general public sees through this absolute farce. In my world, the entire congress should be filled with stay at home mothers and grandmothers. Shit would get done more logically and far faster.
#17
Really Mulakush. Read this book.
When America Despised the Irish: The 19th Century’s Refugee CrisisBY CHRISTOPHER KLEIN // MARCH 16, 2017
#18
Diane...
Didn't know you and HotCoffee where having fun in the front seat of your car... :-*
But, your right about one thing... This country would be a whole lot better off if it was a Matriarchal society!
#19
dory69: Other countries do allow immigration, they just don't allow illegal hiring practices, thus no temptation for desperate people to flee to these countries. They don't allow slave labor and then turn around and blame the slaves.
#20
What don't you get? It's always been blame the immigrants or people of color while a few piggish scoundrels rip us all off. It's not complicated...it's called look the other way so my unending greed goes unchecked. ...distraction. Pit the needy against the needy and run like hell with all of the wealth.
The foxmerized Kochbagger minority have clearly lost their way, but unfortunately they are dragging all the rest of us to hell with them. But boy, are the billionaires are laughing and partying.
#21
Diane
Between the State of the Union, The FISA Memo and the up comming elections the left
have really lost their minds. I amost spit out my Coffee everytime I read Thoms blog and comments.
As for the Jesus comment...I've heard even Heaven has a gate. :)
#22
January 24, 1995 1995 State of the Union Address In his State of the Union address President Clinton called for a new social compact in which Americans exercise their rights and their responsibilities to their families, neighbors, and country. The president spoke of the economic progress of the past two years, lower federal budget deficits, higher employment, and higher productivity. Other topics included campaign finance reform, lobbying reform, the Republican-proposed balanced budget amendment, welfare reform, health care reform, a proposal to raise the federal minimum wage, the proposed Middle Class Bill of Rights, the line-item veto, a limit on unfunded mandates, action to curb illegal immigration, a reduction in federal regulations, and a federal effort aimed at teenage pregnancy.
watch it here
https://www.c-span.org/video/?62882-1/president-bill-clintons-1995-state...
#23
HotCoffee: I waited up last night with Rachel Mancow and the other guy who was booted off MSM for lying to the public. Where the hell was mas Maxine? I hope youtube is up and running this clowns speech.
Still can't find a link to mad Max's speech. Was she medicated enough to actually speak coherently?
Also, what was going on with Kennedy's mouth? He and Rubio make quite a pair. One was parched and the other was drooling. Is this the best we got?
#24
And if the left really cared about the DACA people, they would agree to give Trump what he is asking for. Its called compromise. But we know all that the left/dems really care about is perhaps gaining another voting group.
If the dems/left want to make policy, then their recourse is simple. Try winning elections.
#25
Diane,
Max's speech must have been good because it's NOT on her web site or on BET site.
Not going to be a good month for left when FISA is released....Weiner lap top e-mails come out, Clinton Foundation exposed, Wasserman IT aids Awan Bro's exposed...sheesh!
#26
HotCoffee, Finally found Watters speech and to her credit she did not dress like a drag queen or look like the picture doctors show men when they have an erection that lasted more than four hours. Maybelline would be proud.
She was actually lucid and presented her usual race baiting speech in a calm manner. Ritalin must be a remarkable drug.
("Take it to the MAX in 2024")
#27
1#
its doesnt change that much its just hided inside cause now there are strict laws
2#
prayer need honesty
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This is all about racism... blatantly!
Trump simply opposes anything the first black skinned potus tried to accomplish... period
The hate is almost palpable
Let's not forget rebublican "spitting out the dummy" childish histrionics whilst the man was in power who opposed anything he attempted to achieve