Gun Lobby Shills Ask For More Surveillance Instead Of Needed Gun Control

The meme that I was hearing over and over after the Florida shooting, and I was yelling at the TV, the meme that they kept promoting that was making me so crazy was, "oh, if you see something, say something - we should have been able to see this coming." As if to say that only in the United States do we have people who have mental illness problems. This is just total crap.

New York City came up with this "see something, say something" slogan. In fact, they trademarked it. When Washington DC wanted to use that, they had to pay New York City. so they they came up with this thing. John Mueller writes about this for the Cato Institute of all things, back in 2012. But we've known about this for a long time. It began in 2006 in New York City, the "see something, say something" campaign in the New York subways and all over the city - call the police if you see something, particularly if it has to do with terrorism. In 2006 it had generated 9000 calls and by a year later it was 13,000 calls, in 2008 it was up to 27,000 calls. And by the way, every single one of those calls provokes a police investigation, so we're talking probably tens to hundreds of millions of dollars spent.

So a reporter for the New York Times and then later a reporter for Cato asked, out of these thirty thousand calls about suspicious activity, how many produced an actual arrest or conviction for terrorism or any other crime?


I remember last year there was a story when I was living in Washington DC about how the DC Metro was averaging something like 18,000 calls a year. How many terrorists had they caught?


And so now we're going to take this, which does nothing. The thing from previous years was "it's too soon to talk about this, the emotions are too hot." What crap. And everybody figured out it was crap. And everybody figured out this is just a way of avoiding a serious discussion while you continue to take your blood money from the National Rifle Association, Cory Gardner and Richard Burr. Richard Burr is at the top of the list. The NRA invested 7 million dollars in Richard Burr. You think he's going to talk about gun control? You think he's going to talk about an assault weapon ban, which by the way Ronald Reagan supported? Do you think he's going to talk about bringing back the Brady Bill which Ronald Reagan supported?

These guys are not Republicans. These guys are shills for corporations. They go to whomever pays them the most. It's just that simple. If you're a deadly industry in the United States, if you produce pesticides that cause cancer, if you produce chemicals that kill people, if you work with petroleum products that foul the air and the water and kill our planet, the Republican Party will take your money. They'll even pretend science doesn't exist for you. That's how sold are out they are.

And so the old meme was, "oh, our thoughts and prayers are with you and it's too soon to talk about it." Now after Newtown, we're just not taking that anymore. So now they've come up with a new one and it's all over the media. You see all these shills on TV over and over and over again and you need to be letting your networks know when you see these people how offended you are by this BS.

You see these people going, "oh well, if we had just had somebody report him."

This idiot in Florida who shot these 17 kids, who murdered these 17 kids, he had already been reported to the FBI. There's nothing you can do under the current law. At the very best you could adjudicate them mentally ill, but Donald Trump and the Republicans in Congress passed a law - one of their very first pieces of legislation - that said even if somebody's adjudicated mentally ill, and there are 75,000 people in America who fit that category, so severely mentally ill that they qualify for Social Security disability which is a multi-year process with multiple doctors certifying that you're so badly impaired that you can't work, that those people can now buy guns.

So calling up and saying, "I think this guy is a potential shooter," it does nothing. But this is the new meme - do anything to avoid talking about gun control, anything to avoid talking about why the hell do we have weapons of war on the streets of America.

Congressman Tyler Tannahill from Kansas, this idiot congressman who the day before the shooting announced that he's raffling off an AR-15 - yep if you want to support his campaign make a donation and your entered into the raffle for an AR-15, the weapon that killed those kids. These people are nuts.

No they're not, they're not nuts, they are sociopaths. They don't give a damn about the United States of America. They don't give a damn about our children. All people like Richard Burr and Thom Tillis and Roy Blunt and Marco Rubio and Cory Gardner and Joni Ernst and Rob Portman and Todd Young and Bill Cassidy, all they give a damn about is the millions that the NRA gives them.


jefflisse's picture
jefflisse 5 years 4 weeks ago

Wow Thom..
You hit this one out of the park!!
This should be an interesting 24 hours of posts in response...

Its the sick and painful truth!!

Legend 5 years 4 weeks ago

A few years ago a guy was walking down the street in Colorado Springs with an AK-47. People called 911 and were told that is perfectly legal and they could do nothing. It was not until he shot and killed the first person that police could respond. He killed 2 others before the police killed him.

We are protecting the rights of people to carry arms. To buy unlimited quantities of guns and ammo. We are protecting the rights of mental cases to buy guns. And we are ignoring the rights of our citizens to live in freedom. You cannot go to a school and be free to live in a safe environment. You cannot go to a Country concert and be free to live in a safe environment. You cannot go to a pre-school and be free to live in a safe environment.

Tmbrwolfe's picture
Tmbrwolfe 5 years 4 weeks ago

I hope you are not losing it Thom. I understand your emotions. I attempt to supress my outbursts while listening to people rationalize mass murder by assult rifle as primarily a problem of mental illness by trying to understand their paranoia. We seem to have a lot of mentally ill people in administrative positions in the NRA a well as in congress.

Their arguments in favor of a gun in every purse, pocket, car ,house, school... are so ludacris that I think the gun pushers are like drug pushers hooked on their own products. These people suspect a large number of "bad guys with guns" are out to get them. Many of them probably sleep with an AR-15 under their pillow.

My solution is to round them up along with every AR-15 and a tone of ammo, put them on a rocket and give them a free one way ride to mars.

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 5 years 4 weeks ago

Didn't hear any of you hollar about this....

1) The 2,300 Special Agents at the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) are allowed to carry AR-15’s, P90 tactical rifles, and other heavy weaponry. Recently, the IRS armed up with $1.2 million in new ammunition. This was in addition to the $11 million procurement of guns, ammunition, and military-style equipment procured between 2006-2014.

2) The Small Business Administration (SBA) spent tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars to load its gun locker with Glocks last year. The SBA wasn’t alone – the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service modified their Glocks with silencers.

3) The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) has a relatively new police force. In 1996, the VA had zero employees with arrest and firearm authority. Today, the VA has 3,700 officers, armed with millions of dollars’ worth of guns and ammunition including AR-15's, Sig Sauer handguns, and semi-automatic pistols.

4) Meanwhile, Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) agents carry the same sophisticated weapons platforms used by our Special Forces military warriors. The HHS gun locker is housed in a new “National Training Operations Center” – a facility at an undisclosed location within the DC beltway.

And before you yell ...trump ....Trump...look at the date....

Last year, we released our Oversight Report: The Militarization of America in an editorial published with former-U.S. Senator Dr. Tom Coburn at The Wall Street Journal. Our report quantified the $1.48 billion spent by 67 non-military federal agencies on guns, ammunition, and military-style equipment from 2006-2014.

This week, our organization at updated our data to include gun and ammo purchases over fiscal year 2015 and a partial FY2016. Spending on guns and ammo at 58 non-military federal agencies – including 40 regulatory, administrative agencies – amounted to $158 million.

The continued growth of the federal arsenal begs the question: Just whom are the feds planning to battle?

davecardin's picture
davecardin 5 years 4 weeks ago

And this is ONE I have. Thom, you posted just the other day a figure I believe said a WHOLE 200 persons died via guns via robbery, assult, etc. at the homestead, vs 20 something killed by accident, domestic, etc. All those people saying we need guns to protect ourselves and ALL of those protecting themselves were less than .01% that were needed for that lethal outcome, the rest were self inflicted amoungst themselves, including children's "accidents".

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 5 years 4 weeks ago

Having a gun obsession is a mental illness, just like being obsessed with religion is. The focus on mental illness is just a distraction from focus on a complete ban of assault weapons.

The kids in Florida need to realize that without a strong Democratic Party majority in power, the odds of a ban and or meaningful gun control laws is zero. They need to start speaking out and drawing negative attention to Foxaganda, Kochbaggers, and Putin's Bots...which are going full blast right now spinning the shooting as a false flag event etc.

Voting out the Kochpublicans is the answer.

Scotty11 5 years 4 weeks ago

Guns laws are truly crazy.

Years ago I looked out the window of the office to see a dark colored big rig pull into the lot. My first thought was, this looks like something the feds would drive to intimidate someone.
Now this is a weekend when we're normally closed, however I happened to have left the gate open...said gate is 1/4 mile up the gravel drive and said office is over a mile from anyone else.
To continue...The rig had backed into the parking spot, in effect it's pointing back out the driveway...something that now had me sitting up.
I watch the driver get out of the truck...he fiddles around inside a bit, then opens the door...on my side so I get a good look.
He's wearing a long rider coat which struck me as odd...most folks who would wear one take it off to drive.
As the first foot hits the ground, he reaches down to sweep the long coat out of his way...that's when I saw the shotgun. He proceeds to stand with his back to me adjusting the coat, then turns to walk to the office, wearing the coat, gun perfectly hand in the pocket to support the gun.
Now any guns I own are locked and unloaded...and not in the office.
I take a chance, step to the door and request that he stops where he is. If he wants to visit he can first divest himself of said gun.
He turns, heads back to the rig, and drives off.
Now I'm really freaked, however I did get the license plate #, called the State Police, they ran the plate, checked on the registered priors...and NOT A SINGLE THING THEY COULD DO ABOUT IT.
As it was technically a place of business he is legally allowed to entered said public premise with a shotgun under a long rider coat.
Go figure...bothers me to this day.

DrRichard 5 years 4 weeks ago

Right, and Trump yammers tht the FBI was so busy investigating alleged Russian connections that they ignored potential shooters. Right, all three special agents in the Bureau couldn't be bothered.... Unfortunately with firearms we're talking about the emotional "reptilian" part of the brain, not the thinking "mammalian" section. Hence tring to use reason doesn't work on this topic.

But you see the level of fear that has pervaded this country, parents afraid to let their children play outside, Halloween candy under suspicion, people being "denounced" because they are wearing turbans, burkhas, or speaking another language. It is all of a piece, made worse by a sociopath at the top.

Once upon a time I was proud of America because we didn't have a European-style "Department of the Interior" (not one for parks but for internal police). No longer. The DHS (I won't use that obscene "H" word) fits the bill very nicely. The next president will be pleased to use all the powers his or her predecessors have accumulated, thank you very much.

Johnnie Dorman's picture
Johnnie Dorman 5 years 4 weeks ago

Why doesn't gun control advocates simply go for accomplishing one thing at a time in order to get anything done? First, put some teeth into the record check system. Then once that is accomplished, go after magazines that hold more than ten bullets, then eventually getting rid the military type rifles. Trying to tackle everything at once will get gun control advocates nowhere. Why bite off more than the pro-gun people will chew? Get a clue, people! "One thing at a time."

historywriter's picture
historywriter 5 years 4 weeks ago

Those statistics are dubious as hell. Give your citations -- and use more than 1. Never seen any figures anywhere near those.

Kend's picture
Kend 5 years 4 weeks ago

So this is the Republicans fault. So what did the Democrats do with gun control in the eight years they where in power. Two of them with a majority. The answer is nothing. Truth is there isn't a lot that can be done. There is so many guns out there anyone who wants one legally or not will get one. We tried to do a gun registry here in Canada and they ended up cancelling it after a couple of years because no one did it. It just seemed stupid because we all know bad guys wouldn't do it so what's the point. My question is why are all of these schools kids doing these mass shootings. What changed to get this started. I have to believe it is the way we are doping them up now. It just seems so wrong that anyone would even consider giving a child drugs.

At least 35 acts of school-related acts of violence, including mass school shootings, have been committed by individuals taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs documented in 27 drug regulatory agency warnings to cause mania, psychosis, hostility, aggression and homicidal ideation.

Fact: At least 36 school shootings and/or school-related acts of violence have been committed by those taking orwithdrawing from psychiatric drugs resulting in 172 wounded and 80 killed (in other school shootings, information about their drug use was never made public—neither confirming or refuting if they were under the influence of prescribed drugs). The most important fact about this list, is that these are only cases where the information about their psychiatric drug use was made public.

stopgap's picture
stopgap 5 years 4 weeks ago

The rightwing nazi/fascist cult of Trump, goose-stepping, military parade bastards, can go on and on about their stupid leftwing government conspiracies, insane paranoid rationals and all of the other self-serving dumb-ass excuses for why this happened. But the one thing that is common to all of these mass murders, is easy access to assault rifles. If the Trump dumb-ass, child fucking abettors can't understand this, then there is little hope of ever reasoning with them. Not that that was ever in the cards!

It means nothing to the cult of Trump that two thirds of the American public despise this shit-head president and virtually everyone else in the world, except for Russian oligarchs and Rodrigo Duterte, hate his thin-skinned, pathological lying, pussy-grabbing guts.

Not to change the subject though…but, there is no such thing as "Tax Cuts" for anyone but the top one percent. "Tax Cuts" are nothing more than high interest payday loans that are collected by means of increases in hidden taxes, state taxes, community taxes and fantasy lotteries. The government does not get cheaper to maintain. Costs go up every year and the only way to keep the ship afloat is to pass the tax burden on to the naive saps that believe in "Tax Cuts." And the interest on the debt for financing "Tax Cuts" is paid to the rich by the sham of disproportionate "Tax Cuts" that favor the filthy rich. "Believe me."

stopgap's picture
stopgap 5 years 4 weeks ago

Oh, pardon me! I forgot to include Kend with with list of Trump loving Russian oligarchs and Rodrigo Duterte. Sorry for the oversight!

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 5 years 4 weeks ago

Stopgap...want to stop being vile long enough to comment on this?? Still waiting for anyone to comment on it.

A few words from Greg Palast

The “Steele Dossier” on … Me:
Why I won’t praise the FBI lie & spy machine

Amazing how people ignore what they don't want to hear!

Even if Trump is the biggest piece of sh!t that ever lived it still doesn't excuse this.

Legend 5 years 4 weeks ago

The Republicans released the Nunes "Memo" with great publicity. What happened to the Democratic "Memo" that was to be released?

Kilosqrd's picture
Kilosqrd 5 years 4 weeks ago


It was sent back to Adam Schiff and the democrats on the House Intel Committee to redact the classified information their memo contained. That is the last anyone has seen of it.


stopgap's picture
stopgap 5 years 4 weeks ago

Yes HC, it is amazing how people ignore what they don't want to hear…"Let me be clear: Despite Rep. Devin Nunes' assertions, nothing in his memo-none of this FBI misconduct, however unacceptable-undermines Special Counsel Robert Muller's investigation of Trump and gang......before Hillary paid for a copy, the file was already written for a news front sponsored by Republican billionaire Paul Singer."

Are Palast's conclusions any less fuzzy than "True, the FBI dropped a footnote about the source coming from a political entity." So Palast claims that the FBI failed to inform the FISA court about the source, then admits that they did inform the FISA court. He just didn't like the method used.

Never mind that most of these guys have been on the FBIs radar long before the Steele Dossier ever became an idea in Paul Singer's brain. That the Steele Dossier is not really a factor in the Mueller investigation. That Mueller got rid of Strzok as soon as he was made aware of Strzok's emails.

And so what if there was an agent with a political bias? Do you think that agents don't have a political bias? I happen to know an FBI agent, and "believe me" most of them are rabid Republicans.

"Believe me," I'm no fan of cops or the FBI, but I don't intend to let my disdain for another political figure cloud my judgement. Hillary is no longer a factor. The FBI has been doing dirty tricks since the days of Hoover. This is nothing new. Even if there was no Steele Dossier, to quote Palast, "nothing in his memo-none of this FBI misconduct, however unacceptable-undermines Special Counsel Robert Muller's investigation of Trump and gang."

Now, what other rabbit hole do you want me to waste my time on because of your obsessive hatred for Hillary?

stopgap's picture
stopgap 5 years 4 weeks ago

Yeah Kilosqrd, that's what happened to the Democratic memo, "Believe Me" "No Collusion" No Collusion."

William Cochrane's picture
William Cochrane 5 years 4 weeks ago

I see people that live in house's with bars on the windows and bars on their doors and I think to myself, God, I hope I never get that scared. I see people that have assault style wepons and arsenals for their self defense and I think to myself, God I hope I never get that scared. It's funny that the people with the most guns claim to be the manliest of men... yet, they are the most scared. It's sad that the people with the most guns claim to be the most religious yet they have the least faith. God have pitty on them because they are just so SCARED! I served in the military and I volinteered for Vietnam, I don't own a gun because I'm not scared and I have faith. But, According to them I'm a wimp!

Legend 5 years 4 weeks ago

It is called paranoia. I worked for awhile in a place that guns were an obsession. The kind of place that Guns and Ammo magazines were stacked up in the bathroom. One guy had huge credit issues due to his gun habit. Most admitted that their guns collected dust in the closet. The one guy that was an avid hunter was totally against assault rifles and semi auto pistols. Felt that it did nothing but give a bad image to hunting.

jefflisse's picture
jefflisse 5 years 4 weeks ago

Im in the same boat as the avid hunter that you knew.
And this proliferation of military style weaponry to the general public, really does give a bad image to gun hunting. And to ALL hunting in general...
And lm much more of a bow hunter.
And the gun hunting that l actually do, for the last several years has been exclusively with muzzle loaders.
Two types of weapons that will NEVER be used in mass shootings!

Legend 5 years 4 weeks ago

You mean the kind of rifles that they had when they wrote the second amendment.

jefflisse's picture
jefflisse 5 years 4 weeks ago

Yes. Almost the kind of rifles our "founding fathers" owned...
But with a "slight" improvement. They are percussion cap ( circa 1840) rifles. Instead of flint lock rifles. Though, still single shot muzzle loaders..

jefflisse's picture
jefflisse 5 years 4 weeks ago

Guns and ammo magazines stacked up in a bathroom? "Chuckling"...
You are talking about publications..right? Just kidding..

Just trying to inject a "little" humor.. Into a situation that is actually not funny at all!!

ckrob's picture
ckrob 5 years 4 weeks ago

I would wager that not even one person in a hundred can quote the first phrase of the Second Amendment. Our media and educational system have failed our nation! Should we understand the clearly stated intent of the Second Amendment (despite the Supreme Count's right-wing) then any member of a well regulated militia would have the right to bear arms but not just any yahoo without regard to qualification.

Can we teach the actual, simple words of the Second Amendment for a change?

jefflisse's picture
jefflisse 5 years 4 weeks ago

As most (some.. a few..a very few) of us know, the first ten amendments to the Constitution were added four years later as the Bill of Rights. The second amendment obviously being one of them.
The actual intent (of the framers) of this amendment, has long been hotly debated. And when l read it, I can see why. To put it bluntly.. The framers did a "SHITTY" job of wording it!!

Irregardless of whatever their actual intent really was?!?

Hephaestus's picture
Hephaestus 5 years 3 weeks ago

#19 - Well said! There could be a bit of sex organ size syndrome in there as well

#25 - Media has not heard of a constitution yet... that's likely the reason

#26 - NRA money is buying politicians resulting in unnecessary and avoidable death

And, now Trump wants to arm more people like teachers... teachers now have to be weaponized guards (???!!!???!!!)

Ye gods!

Barking mad!

Legend 5 years 3 weeks ago

The Congressman from my neighboring district was on TV News tonight. Rep. Mike Coffman. He actually had a town hall which my congressman Ken Buck will not do. On the News he was asked about all of the money that he gets from the NRA. His answer was "that is because I am for reponsible gun ownership." What does he think everyone else wants, irresponsible gun ownership?

Kilosqrd's picture
Kilosqrd 5 years 3 weeks ago

Reply to #25

Ckrob, the 2nd Amendment is wriiten in clear, concise language. "A well regulated miltia" is exactly that. Militia means "armed citizenry". A well regulated "armed citizenry". However you fail to grasp the part where the 2nd Amendment reads "the right of the People to keep and bear arms...". The 2nd Am does NOT say the right of the Militia. It says the "People" as in "We the People". As in "...the right of the People..." also stated in the 1st Amendment and the 4th Amendment. Is it your silly contention that the "People" stated in the 2nd Am are different from the "People" mentioned in the 1st Am and the 4th Am? It is your comprehension skills that are lacking, not the Founding Father's.


Hephaestus's picture
Hephaestus 5 years 3 weeks ago

#29 - But... that was when there was no standing army

There is now!

2nd needs amending then

Kilosqrd's picture
Kilosqrd 5 years 3 weeks ago


Your reply is completely irrelavent. The 2nd Am. does not depend on any status of a standing army. Now, if you believe the 2nd Am. needs to be altered, changed, or even eliminated, the Constitution provides a mechanism for just that.

Good luck. I seriously doubt that New York, California, Massachusettes, or the most liberal state of the union would vote to repeal or change the 2nd Am.


Legend 5 years 3 weeks ago

What well regulated militia do you belong to K2?

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