Democrats Should Steal Trump's Thunder on Trade

It's time to run bigger, better and harder on trade policies.

"By preferring the support of domestic to that of foreign industry, he [the entrepreneur] intends only his own security, and by directing that industry in such a manner as its produce may be of the greatest value, he intends only his own gain, and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part of his intention."

-- Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations, 1776 (emphasis added to rebut "free trade" misuse of this quote, as free-traders always drop the first 11 words)

There's an old saying that even a broken clock is right twice a day. In that spirit, Donald Trump and his advisors are at least partly right about trade and tariffs.

Ironically, he's totally defying the entire Republican Party, as well as the Bill Clinton-corporate wing of the Democratic Party, and running with policies that progressive Democrats have been pushing for a century.

While most progressive politicians will admit Trump is right on trade (and several have on my radio/TV show), there aren't a lot of Democrats these days willing to enthusiastically acknowledge Trump might be right about anything so they're not much popping up on network or cable TV.

Which is unfortunate: the Democratic Party should return to its progressive/protectionist/union roots and steal this issue right from Trump's teeth, saying that he's not doing it well enough or fast enough. They should run hard in 2020 on Bernie's suggestion that we use protectionist policies to end our trade deficits and bring back home our jobs.

The disastrous trade deficits we've been running since the Reagan era are damaging to the future of America for a variety of reasons, from national security to where the profits from American companies end up, to the flattening of American working wages and benefits.

Read more here.

Comments

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 11 weeks 1 hour ago
#1

Great speech Thom but President Trump brought it up first you will have a hard time convincing democrat candidate Maxine Watters to tag along and pretend she thought of it first.

Nothing but fun last night listening to leftie/socialists MSM stammer about Trumps potential to be the first US president in history to sit with No. Korea head of state, followed by great new jobs numbers, followed by the unemployment numbers for blacks and Hispanics at record lows, and business confidence at an all time high.

Oh, I forgot, there is the hooker story and those pesky "russians" to keep MSNBC and CNN occupied.

Merry Christmas again and I repeat, your biggest fear is that President Trump will be successful in spite of all the shit you try so hard to shovel in front of him on a minute by minute basis.

Legend 11 weeks 1 hour ago
#2

Yes this adminstration is running as smooth as a high speed train wreck.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-officials-left-trump-administration/...

BoxCar's picture
BoxCar 11 weeks 57 min ago
#3

Modern Times are defined by the "Solar Mortality Theory" a 1993 scientific discovery of the mechanism that synchronizes the human species to grow in wavelets wherein one generation is a 22.2yr solar cycle & every 3 generations, IF there's NO Birth Control then CHAOS ensues> It's why there's TURMOIL in middle east (3.1kids/woman) but CHINA has succeeded due to Birth Control (1kid/family) Side effect of NO Birth Control is that Death Control ensues> hence U have middle east in TURMOIL, Sunnis killing Shia & vice versa Unintended consequence is RUFUGEES trying to escape Death Control, but they bring the same DISEASE w/them as ISLAM has NO Birth Control, so its just a matter of time before Refugees collapse into CHAOS & choose to SLAY those who are INFIDELS> Time to wake up folks> We're in beginnings of WW3 & its nature will be CIVIL WAR, for DEFENSE CHINA also has over 1BILLION SLAVES so there's no way U can economically compeat w/China unless U develop ROBOTICS which is better/cheaper than Slaves> Tariffs are only 1part of combating China who can deliver STEEL PRODUCTS at cost of Raw Mat'ls One choice is to force gov't employees to buy American Cars IF they use Taxpayer wage But problem w/that is Cars source products from other countries (for example Harley gets front forkes from Japan's massive M/C industry so they can produce 'em cheaply) POPE has the ultimate solution> STOP BREEDING & all problems disappear w/in century

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 11 weeks 54 min ago
#4

Hi Diane.

So Hillary tries to steal the election from Bernie and her picture is promenate on Thom's site .

And Thom wants to steal unearned thunder from Trump.

No matter what proggressives thought for 8 years, Trump did it in one year.

There is a big differece between thinking of something and doing something.

Where's you values Thom?

Sad Thom can't think of a better plan than theft! Seems we already have plenty of that.

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 11 weeks 39 min ago
#5

This is the news we are getting in California from progressive Gov. Jerry Bown.

Cost for California bullet train system rises to $77.3 billion

for what....

The California bullet train project took a sharp jump in price Friday when the state rail authority announced the cost of connecting Los Angeles to San Francisco would total $77.3 billion, an increase of $13 billion from estimates two years ago, and could potentially rise as high as $98.1 billion.

The rail authority also said that the earliest trains could operate on a partial system between San Jose and the farming town of Wasco would be 2029, five years later than the previous projection. The disclosures are contained in a 114-page business plan that was issued in draft form by the rail authority and will be finalized this summer in a submission to the...

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-bullet-train-cost-increase...
Thats 77.3 Billion folks... How much to go mars????

Oh well we didn't need that money for anything else...right?

gloriapower's picture
gloriapower 10 weeks 6 days ago
#6

I am a senior and I used my tax refund to buy a pair of Frye boots. Now if everyone can afford to buy American made shoe wear we won't worry about trade equality. Then again we only get tax refunds once a year. Last year at tax refund time I had to pay a bunch of unforseen things that make me crazy. The year before that I had an eye exam and bought two pair of glasses for the first time in over ten years. Welcome to Amerika. At least I can say I love being able to see and walking really well because public trans is my usual way to go.

gmiklashek950's picture
gmiklashek950 10 weeks 6 days ago
#7

Well done Thom! However, in 1791 patriotism was implicit and Americans bought locally manufactured goods and circulated our currency within the new nation. What no-one concerned with our current currency draining trade deficit ever seems to mention is the responsibility of patriotic Americans to support American industry by buying American made products. We do not want to take personal responsibility for a damn thing: the pollution of the environment, the flow of American currency to off-shore entities due directly to our mindless consumer purchases at Wallyworld, and our endless wars. Trump and his billionarire cronies are globalists and America be damned. Until the average American citizen wakes up and takes responsibility for our own individual actions and purchases, all the central pie-in-the-sky government policies will be for naught.

Hephaestus's picture
Hephaestus 10 weeks 6 days ago
#8

#! - Is it Christmas?

POTUS appears to be genuine in persuit of his election proclamations

Hoping he does okay with it all

Hephaestus's picture
Hephaestus 10 weeks 6 days ago
#9

#1 - May I ask what is a leftie/socialist?

Kindly define

Thanks

jefflisse's picture
jefflisse 10 weeks 6 days ago
#10

#7
I went into a "Farm and Fleet" store a few winters back looking to replace an old (made in USA) Carhartt with a new winter work coat (heavy woven cotton duck). They carry three different brand names of basically the same product.
I checked the cheapest one out first. Brand name: "Work N Sport".
[Made in China.]
I then checked out the mid priced one. Brand name: "Wells".
[ Made in China.]
I figured okay.. The most expensive priced it is. Brand name: "Carhartt". [Made in Mexico...]
Several years earlier,Carhartt shut down a large portion of their American manufacturing and moved it down to Mexico.
Strange how the cheaper manufacturing and labor( now moved out of the USA) wasn't/isn't reflected in lower prices to consumers?!?
"Chuckling"
At least not pertaining to Carhartt...

Buy American? I guess l did... Mexico is in North America...

http://ethixventures.com/ethics-of-ethix/carhartt-the-end-of-an-era/

Kend's picture
Kend 10 weeks 6 days ago
#11

Trump did say he was running for President of the US not the President of the world. As a Canadian I can tell you Trump has scared the crap out of the world. America has a leader who is putting Americans well being ahead of other countries. its going to be hard to bring mfg. back to the US as it takes years and in some cases decades just to get approval for a new mfg plant or trying to do it with the strict environmental controls when you are competing with countries that have none. Thom is right the left has lose there way. It's not often that I agree with Thom but he is going in the right direction here.

Legend your right, Trump is having huge staffing issues. Truth is no one cares as long as their standard of living is getting better.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 10 weeks 6 days ago
#12

Reynolds, Kend: Sorry to ruin your giddiness, but I have a couple inconvenient truths for you. First, your Kochpublican party is the party of globalization, not the Democratic Party. Look up the history of free trade legislation, who voted for it, and who voted against it. Secondly, despite employment figures, which Trump always said were fake, wages have been flat since Reagan's anti-union trickle down fraud. So unless you have been voting for Democratic candidates for the last 30 some years , your comments are hypocritical at best and make no rational sense. ..or are you turning liberal because even a broken Trump can get it right if he follows a progressive democratic agenda?

Wake up, your thoughts are being controlled by extremely wealthy people who could care less about you. To still hold any respect for Trump says a lot about your character.

BTW Reynolds: Korea is taking advantage of Trump's ineptness and control by Putin. Putin supplied the engines for those Korean rockets that can now reach us...with nukes. The magical world you live in is not at all reality.

jefflisse's picture
jefflisse 10 weeks 6 days ago
#13

We really do need more women in positions of power. They have only the "BIG" head to think with! You know, the one on top of their shoulders...
Unlike men in power, who more often than not, spend a preponderance of their time thinking with the "little" head. You know, the one between their legs...

jefflisse's picture
jefflisse 10 weeks 6 days ago
#14

Hey now baby, get into my big black car.
I just want to show you what my politics are.

"Politician" from Cream.
From the album "Wheels of Fire"
Circa: 1968

Worn out door knobs's picture
Worn out door knobs 10 weeks 6 days ago
#15

My friend 2950-10

I’m sure I speak for everyone else who posts here....Thank you for being here. Your posts keep us from being viewed as the dumbest who respond here.

Kend's picture
Kend 10 weeks 6 days ago
#16

10 K. Wasn't it Clinton a Democrat the one who signed the Nafta agreement. I think most of us would agree that both party's are to blame for all of these poor trade deals. They have been going on for decades. Since Reagan the Republicans have been in power 12 years and Democrats 16. Lots of time for both parties to make changes. Besides. Trump isn't really a Republican, both parties really don't like him. 10 k are you honestly saying that since Trump was elected things are not getting better for all Americans. with the low unemployment rates wages are going to go up. Tax cuts are putting more money in the pockets of hard working Americans. Investment in America is increasing daily. Lighten up times are good

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 10 weeks 5 days ago
#17

Kend: The Democratic Party voted against NAFTA....it only made it to Clinton because of your Kochpublican party...as in all free trade agreements moving through congress. You can't have it both ways Pal. Things have been getting better since the Obama years, it's propaganda convincing you otherwise. Have you forgot about the Great Republican recession already?

BTW: The tax cuts you support are pushing our debt to record highs....trillion dollar deficits will soon be permanent. More hypocrisy from you righties.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 10 weeks 5 days ago
#18

Worn Out...I must have touched a nerve, LOL? You righties have continually supported the party that is all about free trade, and then suddenly because an out of control idiot directs you towards progressive policy, you now are against free trade???? Ask Mitch McConnell which party supports free trade. That's what dumb is, inability to think for yourself. How's Russia?

You speak for everyone else in your own mind Knobster!

I've never seen a mature comment from you...try raising the bar.

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 10 weeks 5 days ago
#19

2950

When your done about the right and Russia...you might want to address Hillary's reset button, and Obama's 150 billion to Iran. Not to mention the bribes Bill Clinton gave NK if they would just play nice...they didn't.

If you don't think the trade deficit puts us in debt...think again.

And if we did end up in a war...I really don't want to ask China if we could please have the stuff we need to fight it...like steel and stuff. Do you?

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 10 weeks 5 days ago
#20

Coffee...How much is the endless war costing? Wouldn't have happened if we had legit elections...A President Gore wouldn't have allowed it. War for Profit is your parties thing.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 10 weeks 5 days ago
#21

LOL....The rocket engine comment stirred up Worn Out! That's not lost on me at all. Face it, Putin is a Fascist, and he's felonious Donny's pal, be it by blackmail or whatever. Putin is every bit as dangerous as Hitler with the Kochs creating the perfect storm for him. Funny how I posted long ago about Putins's wealth...new reports are now coming out that he's the wealthiest man on the planet. Eastern Europe anon has been warning us about this for years. That wealth belongs to the Russian citizens.

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 10 weeks 5 days ago
#22

2950

I don't have a party.

But I can look around my house or most houses and almost everything in them is from China, right down to our underwear. That doesn't bother you? Items that used to last 20 yrs now last maybe 2 yrs.

When we used to sell products in the USA they would say made in USA, made in Mexico etc. now they say country of origin may vary...thats how fast companies shift according to lowest labor costs.

A race to the bottom.

How do you defend your Country if you don't make the products you need for defence?

We can play cum by ya...but that doesn't mean other countries will.

It wasn't Donny giving Russia our uranium!

jefflisse's picture
jefflisse 10 weeks 5 days ago
#23

2950
You've made a good point about the "what if"...about the "if only" we had honest elections!
But, when it comes to the terrible free trade policies.. Im sorry to say but, BOTH parties are guilty!! Clinton bought into and campaigned on pushing free trade through. And in 94 he happily signed it into law. Shit man, Obama was having a fuckn wet dream trying to push the TPP through! And if the Republicans racist hatred for the black man in charge hadn't been so big! He probably would have succeeded... And then the"wet dream" would have been a real "fucking"!!

And lets not forget that all through both Reagan's terms, that the Dems controlled the house by over 50 seats. They could have stopped "dead in the tracks", the absolutely insane upper tier tax cuts from becoming law in 81, and again in 86. Instead, they voted for them! In fact, both times, those"future" laws were introduced in the house as a bill,by the Democrats. Shit man, Obama made most of the Bush tax cuts permanent...
While l might aline with the Dems on most things.. I'm not turning a blind eye on them either! They aren't innocent bystanders..
l do believe the Republicans are much more to blame. They have INTENTIONALLY legislated terrible, destructive policies and laws that harm the middle class, organized labor, the needy and poor, the veterans,and the environment...all while.. Passing laws and deregulating others to help the greedy, powerful mega-rich and the Corporations get bigger, richer and way more powerful!!
That being said..the Dems are complacent to a lesser degree!
Whether intentional or not...

And dont even get me going on the bi-partisan repeal of key provisions of the Glass Steagall act in 99...

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 10 weeks 5 days ago
#24

Jeff: I fully realize the role Bill Clinton and Obama have played in globalization and I have spoke out against them for it. My point again is that our legislative branch is ultimately responsible for the legislation reaching the White House desk. In all free trade agreements the Democratic Party has voted no, while the Party of free trade, the one bought and paid for by those who would benefit from the race to the bottom, the Kochpublican Party, has voted yes...... a fact that the trolls posting here, who vote for that party, cannot deny. This issue is just one of many spotlighting their self destructive voting habits, whether it's a case of plain old ignorance or vulnerability to propaganda, I can't say.

Massive profits from slave labor may be fine with the Republi-cons, but not so much with Democratic minded citizens.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 10 weeks 5 days ago
#25

Coffee: I don't mean to make fun of you, but read my posts again real slow....your response doesn't apply at all to what I said. ..or if you agree with me, just say it, which means despite not having a party, you must have voted for the Democrats all these years because the fomentation of jobs being shipped overseas was legislation initiated by the authoritarian right...and put into law by the Kochbagger Party.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 10 weeks 5 days ago
#26

I'll say it again, Putin is an extremely dangerous man. Hillary Clinton knows as much as anybody in our intel about him, which is why he feared her so much. This country couldn't be in a worse position right now with Trump as the illegit President owned and controlled by him. Putin is winning the war...hell, we aren't even resisting him...kind of like Hitler rolling over the Netherlands/lowlands in 1940..Hello, anybody there?..he's doing as much damage as the Kochs in destroying our democracy while many still believe all is just hunky dory.

Does anybody really think that by supplying North Korea with long range rocket technology, Putin didn't first think through the consequences of that action?...LOL

jefflisse's picture
jefflisse 10 weeks 5 days ago
#27

2950-10K

I guess l find it hard to call myself a Democrat.Even though l for the most part, aline with their ideology.
I understand that it is a general and broad term. And it loosely encompasses a wide gambit of ideologies.. From the right leaning
"red dog" conservative wing, to the rank and file centrists, to the socialist wing, onto the liberal wing and at the left spectrum the progressive wing.
And though there is at times, major differences between the different factions of the Democratic party, I do believe theres enough common ideals, beliefs,and goals to (sort of) unite them as a party...
But..
I believe their massaging, for the most part, totally sucks!!
They need to steal a move from the Republican playbook and go on the attack more! Be more "united" and aggressive in their messaging. And quit being so defensive of their positions on issues! When they are attacked..actually take pride in their positions!
Like the Republicans who need to get a HEART!
The Democrats need to get a set of BALLS!

Now, lm not saying they should " bull faced" lie over and over..again and again.. like the Republicans do in their messaging.
Or play to peoples fears and superstitions..like the Republicans do over and over in their messaging.
But.. Id love to see the Dems. be tougher and more on the offence in their messaging...
It's long past time to take no more "bullshit" from the corporate oligarchy controlled party..that used to not just be called..but actually were (40 plus years ago), conservatives!!

Legend 10 weeks 5 days ago
#28

The Democratic Party (and Republican Party) have changed a lot through the years. Lyndon Johnson did some good things but also escalated the Vietnam War. Having lots of stock in Bell Helicopter and number 1 supporter Brown & Root helped. I am a progressive Democrat. A supporter of Bernie's style of politics. Bill Clinton is a neoliberal Democrat. Unfortunately we have a 2 party system. 3rd Parties are a waste of time with our system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism#United_States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Democrats_of_America

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 10 weeks 5 days ago
#29

Legend,

You rarely answer any of my questions as well, such as the one about Dems, hugging and kissing on Farrakhan a post or two back.

I do recall all those chants of hey hey LBJ though. While I haven't totaled the $....I sure know the cost in human life and it's evil no matter who's idea it is, and there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides.

Still...as I said, even if we quit all our wars...do you really believe the other countries would just sit back and say OK that's cool? Presto no more war? USA you just go ahead and save all that money?

I think the people on both sides agree that corporations are not people...yet we can't even end that. Why not...is it because we can't come together on anything? Too politicaly incorrect to work together?

stopgap's picture
stopgap 10 weeks 5 days ago
#30

Actually HC, I did respond to your Farrakhan question at the end of Thom's previous blog. But a bit late for anyone to notice. I have reposted it here.

Yes, Hot Coffee! By all means liberals…let's divert our focus from holding Trump accountable, to chasing down HCs rabbit holes.

Louis Farrakahan is not the fucking president! He is not the leader of the free world! But HC would have us divert attention and energies from Trump, to chase down the rabbit hole of someone that is of little importance to the current problems of the world and even the US.

Considering the clear and present danger of having a President Trump, HC would have us divert attention of putting out our burning house, to go and save the out-house first.

And I really had to laugh about her statement: "Farrakhan…the racist..misogynist (sic)…white hating, jew hating…baffoon?" Change the phrase "white hating" to "minority hating," and you perfectly describe Trump and 90 percent of his supporters.

Then in her next post, she decides to address Thom's topic of the"Common Good" after deliberately changing the subject for the purpose of stirring up shit. But that's what Trolls Do!

The links below may not prove anything or make a point other than that two can play at the posting links game.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/tulsi-gabbard-president-sanders-democ...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/09/us/asheville-police-taser-jaywalking/inde...

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/israel-passes-law-strip-residency...

Legend 10 weeks 5 days ago
#31

I heard a good statement today that these right wing Trolls are so far brainwashed it is not worth debate. Fox has them, do not bother.

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 10 weeks 4 days ago
#32

Stopgap,

So Tusli didn't kiss HC's fat ass..., Or her Co- thief DWS, oh my.

And she doesn't believe that Iran is pro gay, pro free speech, or pro american. You can always move there if that's the life you prefer.

She changed her mind on the things CNN complains about. As if CNN is accurate about anything. Perhaps CNN is not your friend.

She's a hell of a lot better than HRC's super predator remarks and her slap down of Donna Brazille, racisist remarks you so easily forgive. So you want to put the out- house in charge of the house...not me.

You might want tp pick your friends more carefully.

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 10 weeks 4 days ago
#33

SG,

Lets say you live in a little tiny apatment in a big city and all the residents of the whole city wanted to see you dead, and all your family too.

What would you do?

jefflisse's picture
jefflisse 10 weeks 4 days ago
#34

Stopgap, Legend

One thing I've noticed thats consistent about HC,is her inconsistency. She tends to be all over the place on subjects that are discussed on this site.Its hard to get a read on her...

At least shes not mean spirited, nasty, and belligerent like Reynolds.
Or ignorant and totally shallow like Kend.

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 10 weeks 4 days ago
#35

Jeffl,

Life and it's issues are complicated. Not black & white.

I try to see things from different perspectives.

I admit I can be wrong...after all I voted for clinton and obama twice each, yet considering the alternatives at the time I would do it again.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 10 weeks 4 days ago
#36

Jeff...why not call yourself a progressive democrat? Actually it's all about voting in candidates who want to do their job and honor the will of the people. I only recently became a member of the Democratic Party so I could vote for Bernie in the primary...but I admit to never voting for a Republican in four decades. That's what it's all about man....don't get hung up on labels.

jefflisse's picture
jefflisse 10 weeks 4 days ago
#37

.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 10 weeks 4 days ago
#38

Coffee..so I assume if you voted for Clinton and Obama, you must have also voted for down-ballot Dems too....???? After all, who would vote for a candidate and then turn around and vote for opposition to that candidate?.....or are you just messing with us like a good little troll?

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 10 weeks 4 days ago
#39

stogap: I agree, diversion, especially the Hillary derangement syndrome kind is getting extremely old....at least we aren't hearing about Benghazi anymore. Funny how that ended abruptly November 8th 2016.....huh? What a wonderful free press we have in the wealthiest third world on the planet.

jefflisse's picture
jefflisse 10 weeks 4 days ago
#40

Ok.. I guess I'm a progressive Democrat. "Chuckling" That was easy!

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 10 weeks 4 days ago
#41

SG,

I'll answer your question...will you answer mine #33.

I've aready said many times here... Born & raised in SF voted straight Dem tickets up till the last election. Voted Bernie last primary election....Didn't vote election.

Not a lot of repubs read Greg Palast..Democracy now...Mother Jones, et al...ya think? Yet I refer to them often. Know Diane Feinstein quite well, Nancy Pelosi, but Barbara Boxer the most as I also lived in Marin Co. Of the 3 Barbara Boxer is the best human being especially when she wasn't taking her marching orders from Di Fi.

Therefore constantly calling me a troll is actually amusing...shows how desperate you are to find enemies.

That being said ...again...please think what you want...I have nothing to prove to you.

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 10 weeks 4 days ago
#42

Hillary has been disliked and under investigation since little rock and she's very much under investigation now, as is her foundation. This time she may not be able to buy & threaten her way out of it. And prosecutions could happen now that Eric Holder isn't covering her butt, just might be to busy covering his own.

Issues (to many to even list) just seem to follow inoccent Hilly everywhere she's been.

jefflisse's picture
jefflisse 10 weeks 4 days ago
#43

HC
I really don't give a " flying fuck" about Hillary Clinton!! Crook or no crook.. It just doesn't matter to me! Why does it matter sooo much to you?!? Shes such a non issue now.. Get over it!!

stopgap's picture
stopgap 10 weeks 4 days ago
#44

Dear Hot Coffee, There is no meaning to any of this bullshit about who you know or what you know as long as you are not producing evidence to prove it. You can keep repeating it till' the cows come home as long you want, but we have no real reason to believe any of what you say or who you know without proof. So it's ridiculous to post such specific shit on this site unless you are willing to identify yourself and document these claims!

I certainly don't expect anyone to take anything I say about my personal life as more than antidotal, or as context to make a point. But proof….forget it!

I've already answered all you questions! Your questions are endless schizophrenic rabbit holes…best defined as trying to talk to children…answers that can never be satisfactory or complete, but usually ignored when they offer evidence counter to whatever rabbit hole you want to try to take us down.

But ultimately, the fact that you can't let go of your Hillary hating obsessn, more than a year after the election, undermines any credibility you wish to claim as a reasonable, reliable source of factual info or someone that can be taken seriously.

In fact, I do worry about your situation. Married and living on 80 acres of land? How the fuck do you have time to obsess endlessly about Hillary, spend 24/7 trolling the internet for anything and everything anti-Hillary and anti-liberal, tending to 80 acres of land and maintaining a reasonably happy marriage? I noticed that we haven't heard from your "better half?" Hell, I lived by myself, on an acre and a half of land and between maintaing the house and weed-whacking, I barely had time to wake up and drink coffee, let alone dick around on the internet.

What question did you ask?…as if I give a fuck. "Believe me" answering any of your questions is a total waste of time! And I suspect, most here agree… with the exception of you troll buddies.

By the way, I'm Napoleon and Santa Claus! Merry Christmas Death-Rey!

stopgap's picture
stopgap 10 weeks 4 days ago
#45

I would like address Thom's topic about tariffs and the economy, but let's face it. This is a very complex subject that would take a book to even approach understanding…and even then, probably would never be satisfactory, and likely impossible to resolve.

While I agree with Thom about the principle of tariffs and his documenting of their history relating to the American economy. I can't help but have this nagging feeling that the onset of Hamiltonian economics may well have been the beginning of the end for the environment, with regards to the welfare of the planet earth.

In other words, our success, has been devastating to the health of the planet. Ideally, this could be addressed as we restructure out economic planning to reimpose tariffs. But what are the chances of that? Especially with a loose cannon like Trump at the helm.

In many ways, one could even think of the economic success of once third-world countries, as an equalization and even payback, to imperialist policies that depleted and exploited the resources of many of these countries.

Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the ride and privilege that has come with American imperialism. But I don't think it's endless!

Ultimately, to get along, we will have to accept meaniful sacrifices in the way we live and live a much less consumerist and more humble, though not necessarily less satisfying, lifestyle. Any volunteers?

Legend 10 weeks 4 days ago
#46

HC needs to get over her obsession with Hillary. Comes across as deranged. Maybe see a shrink.

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 10 weeks 4 days ago
#47

Leftie/socialists in the middle of the night calling someone else deranged. Holy shit, go to bed get some sleep.

jefflisse's picture
jefflisse 10 weeks 4 days ago
#48

Awww...how sweet. Reynolds is still all concerned about how much sleep us " lefty socialists" are getting..
She really does care!!
Hugs and kisses..
And merry "fuckn" Christmas! ;-*

Coalage3 10 weeks 4 days ago
#49

Its too bad the democrats did not get over their obsession with Hillary until it was way too late. Let us repeat again for effect...Hillary (political veteran) Clinton lost to Donald (TV star and political neophyte) Trump. The democrats have gone off the rails, and Trump's election proves it.

What's sad is that the strategy that led to the election of the Donald appears to still be in full force and effect. What's the definition of madness?

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 10 weeks 4 days ago
#50

Sad the way the truth sends them into rage & temper tantrums.

Can't figure out who they plan to run for president in 2020.

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From Screwed:
"Thom Hartmann’s book explains in simple language and with concrete research the details of the Neo-con’s war against the American middle class. It proves what many have intuited and serves to remind us that without a healthy, employed, and vital middle class, America is no more than the richest Third World country on the planet."
Peter Coyote, Actor and author of Sleeping Where I Fall
From Screwed:
"Hartmann speaks with the straight talking clarity and brilliance of a modern day Tom Paine as he exposes the intentional and systematic destruction of America’s middle class by an alliance of political con artists and outlines a program to restore it. This is Hartmann at his best. Essential reading for those interested in restoring the institution that made America the envy of the world."
David C. Korten, author of The Great Turning and When Corporations Rule the World
From Cracking the Code:
"Thom Hartmann ought to be bronzed. His new book sets off from the same high plane as the last and offers explicit tools and how-to advice that will allow you to see, hear, and feel propaganda when it's directed at you and use the same techniques to refute it. His book would make a deaf-mute a better communicator. I want him on my reading table every day, and if you try one of his books, so will you."
Peter Coyote, actor and author of Sleeping Where I Fall