The Thom Hartmann Program - Aug 30th 2018

It seems it's all racism, all the time w/the GOP...Neo-Nazi robocall hits Iowa on Molly Tibbett’s murder: “KILL THEM ALL. ” Richard Wolff drops by about the National Debt. Is it a disaster or an OK thing? Also - Trump & The National Enquirer - Is the Economy Here To Serve Us Or Are We Here to Serve the economy? Has America Become a "Grifter" Country? Check out our short podcast today



Coalage3 2 weeks 5 days ago

Are you kidding me? The party of racism is the democratic party. And by the way, they are also now the party of fascism as well. They will do whatever it takes to silence any dissenting voice. Anitfa? They are just the new fascist brownshirts. Beat the hell out of anybody they don't like. Sure sounds and looks like fascism to me, and the leadership of the democratic party just remains silent. As the saying goes, their silence speaks volumes. Per Don Lemon, they "aren't perfect". Yeah, just like the KKK is not perfect either.

The democrats have now totally abandoned the working people and unions in this country in favor of the 1% elite and their minions. Kind of ironic, isn't it?

What has happened to the democratic party in this country?

John Scott's picture
John Scott 2 weeks 5 days ago

The Myth of Utopian Libertarian Economic Liberty

John Scott

Definition from the web site of the Institute of Humane Studies

The libertarian or “classical liberal” perspective is that peace, prosperity, and social harmony are fostered by “as much liberty as possible” and “as little government as necessary.”

According to Libertarianism: A Primer by David Boaz, Free Press, 1997:

Libertarianism is the view that each person has the right to live his life in any way he chooses so long as he respects the equal rights of others. Libertarians defend each person’s right to life, liberty, and property-rights that people have naturally, before governments are created. In the libertarian view, all human relationships should be voluntary; the only actions that should be forbidden by law are those that involve the initiation of force against those who have not themselves used force-actions like murder, rape, robbery, kidnapping, and fraud.

Libertarians admire the free market ideology as described by Adam Smith and articulated by Milton Friedman, who was a disciple of F.A. Hayek,

Definition by Wikipedia

In economics by the open market and consumers, in which the laws and forces of supply and demand are free from any intervention by a government, price-setting monopoly, or other authority. Proponents of the concept of free market contrast it with a regulated market, in which a government intervenes in supply and demand through various methods such as tariffs used to restrict trade and protect the economy. In an idealized free market economy, prices for goods and services are set freely by the forces of supply and demand and are allowed to reach their point of equilibrium without intervention by government policy.

In the US in the 1950s, conservative founders of the John Birch Society embraced Libertarian ideas and free market ideology. James McGill Buchanan became a particular darling of this group and later founded the George Mason University which became an intellectual breeding ground for right-wing activists. Nancy MacLean in her book DEMOCRACY IN CHAINS describes in detail the history of a group of wealthy individuals who have organized and funded the rise of an extreme anti-democratic movement. This has been done over a number of decades with determination and stealth.

According to author Nancy MacLean there are a number of traits shared by these wealthy individuals. They do not believe that they should be compelled to contribute to the well-being or welfare of any other group or individual. They do not believe that their economic liberty should be regulated or interfered with by government or any other institution. However, at the same time they refuse to guard the political or civil liberty of any other group or individual. They have been quite willing to use military force and dictatorship in imposing their economic policies on populations around the world. You may refer to the book Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein for an exploration of their methods and the disastrous results. History demonstrates that this economic/social scheme has never been voluntarily accepted by any population. It has only been imposed with violent force.

The Libertarian ideal of the golden age of the US was the period following Reconstruction after the Civil War and ending with the beginning of the Great Depression. This period of history is also referred to as the Robber Baron age. This Libertarianism is a movement against the principles of democracy in favor of control of the population by an oligarchy.

What developed in the late 19th century and the early 20th century were movements that mobilized communities in solidary in collective actions. The labor movement demanded livable wages and safe working conditions. This greatly offended the oligarch masters. How dare workers unite to negotiate their working conditions and wages? This was considered a distortion of the labor market and threatened established power structures. Increased wages created a consumer market for appliances and goods that were previously unaffordable.

The oligarch class desires to see voting rights restricted as in the late 18th century to white men of property. Starting in 1920 women earned the right to vote. In 1965 with the passage of the Voting Rights Act African Americans were finally given the unrestricted right to vote. The expansion of voting rights was the result of people working as a community together to achieve a desired positive result. Democracy is by character a government defined as rule of the majority. The libertarian oligarch class feels extremely offended to be coerced to support with taxation social programs like public schools, social security, medical care and the US Postal Service.

In their utopia all people would solely be responsible to provide for their own education, health care, pension and transportation. With all minimum wage laws and child labor laws abolished how would it be possible for wage slaves to educate their children, provide health care and self-fund pensions? This sounds like the old class system of Europe with an aristocracy that controlled resources while the working classes lived in desperate poverty as serfs. This is liberty for the few and servitude for the many. Like Protestant Calvinists they believe that the wealthy are by grace destined to rule over the rest of humanity.

The Libertarian oligarchs are determined to destroy all aspects of community and collective action. This may be due to their worship of individualism or their knowledge that it is much easier to subdue and control isolated individuals. Charles Koch has organized his own community of billionaires to fund think tanks like the Cato Institute. His organizations have basically taken over the Republican Party by threatening incumbent office holders with funding more extreme primary opponents if they do not support their extreme undemocratic agenda. Their agenda is more authoritarian than the liberty as promised by their Libertarianism.

They state that they wish to go back to a time before governments were created. What would that mean in a modern society? Do they really pine for the days when the man with the biggest stick ruled? If there were no government then how would the people in a society interact? The oligarchs who controlled the resources use police state tactics as they have done in countries such as Chile?

I think that we should all be suspicious of all utopian schemes. Libertarians would claim that their theories would have solved all problems caused by boom and bust business cycles and market corrections if only their theories were employed more completely and purely. We have heard this all before from extreme left leaning and right leaning purists.

James Madison in contributing to the drafting of the US Constitution was concerned about the tyranny of the majority over the minority. The minority have always been the moneyed elite. The extreme radical right’s plan to take this protection way beyond Madison’s checks and balances threatens to destroy all of the democratic gains by the working majority of the last 100 years.

hemlockone's picture
hemlockone 2 weeks 3 days ago

Nice try Coalage3. You sound like another poor victimized white conservative. Manipulated by the capitalist elite to keep the working classes divided. Tell me when has the GOP ever supported legislation or appointed judges that favor the individual over big capital/corporations? Tell me when they last supported a tax bill that did not favor the oligarchs and/or corporations? Tell me when they last supported legislation that would restrict police powers? If the democrats are the party of racism, why is it that the GOP works so hard to restrict the voting rights of minorities? You tell me, who is more of an authoritarian, Obama or Trump? Who is more of a hypernationalist? The GOP fits the bill of being more fascist and more racist by far more than the Democratic Party.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 2 weeks 2 days ago

hemlockone: Excellent comeback! Although it's impossible to peer into the dark recesses of Coalage3's mind (Who would want to?) in order to ferret out the true motive(s) for posting such ridiculous nonsense, one may reasonably surmise from the hollow words that such an apparently angry person must be extremely irritated that the party of Trump (truly a kakistocracy) is almost universally thought of -- other than by the shrinking minority of Republican fascist followers -- as a racist, fascist, sexist, criminal organization that is rapidly, finally! imploding spectacularly on itself thanks largely to the increasing lunacy of its childish leader, "a sad, embarrassing wreck of a man" (George Will). So Coalage3 is engaging in a pathetic attempt to turn the tables by redirecting these damning accusations toward present-day Democrats -- with no real proof of course. It's an age-old, rather desperate, psychologically defensive tactic and nothing more than a meaningless and immature schoolyard taunt: "I'm rubber; you're glue. What you say bounces off me and sticks to you." Nice try indeed.​

"Sure sounds and looks like fascism to me..." -- Coalage3. Obviously this sad, embarrassing wreck of a poster has no idea what fascism actually is.

John Scott: It was a pleasure reading your explication and analysis of libertarianism.

"In an idealized free market economy, prices for goods and services are set freely by the forces of supply and demand and are allowed to reach their point of equilibrium without intervention by government policy." -- Wikipedia

The key word here is "idealized," since libertarianism has never worked in reality anywhere at any time in history or in the modern era. By "worked" I mean for the good of the people on the whole rather than only for the tiny ruling class of greedy, power-hungry reprobates.

In a nutshell: "This Libertarianism is a movement against the principles of democracy in favor of control of the population by an oligarchy." -- John Scott

Coalage3 2 weeks 1 day ago

Bad try Hemlock. Who is for silencing dissenting voices? I will give you a hint. Its not anybody on the right. What group condones and supports violence? The progressive fascist left.

Your democratic party of today is now the party of the 1% elite. Why do you think all of the elite supported Hillary? Your democratic party of today was the war party in the last election. Why do you think war mongers John McCain and Lindsay Graham liked Hillary so much?

What has happened to the democratic support for the unions in this country, and for the working man in general? I have not heard one democratic congressional candidate talk about support for the working man, or economic policies to benefit them. Why is that? Because they let the Donald beat them to it. Just think about that. Donald Trump now seems to be the only who cares for all the working people in the US. He is certainly the only one talking about the problems facing poor and middle class Americans.

What a sad time for the democratic party in this country.

Coalage3 2 weeks 1 day ago

The "proof is in the pudding". If you act like a fascist, if you look like a fascist, if you talk like a fascist, you are probably a fascist.

The democratic party now acts, looks, and especially talks like fascists. Why has the democratic party now ceded their support of the working people in this country to the repubs? Why does the democratic party now side with big business, big pharma, big banking, and silicon valley?

What has happened to the democratic party in this country?

Kend's picture
Kend 2 weeks 1 day ago

Well said Coalage3.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 2 weeks 23 hours ago

"... alternative facts ... truth isn't truth ... up is down ... East is West ... don't believe what you hear or read ... believe me, folks ... believe me .... only I can fix it ... me ... me ... me ... it's all about me, not you ... best president ever ... better poll numbers than Lincoln!

No really.

Believe me

...not FAKE NEWS !!!

Lies, lies, lies, all lies !!!

No collusion, collusion, collusion.

No really, folks.

I'm not a crook.

Investigate the Democrats, the FBI, the 400 pound guy on the bed

...anybody but me, me, me, the greatest president ever.

...fake news ...fake news ...fake news

...enemy of the people ...enemy of the people ...enemy of the people the wall the wall the wall

...lock her up ...lock her up ...lock her up !!!

...USA ...USA ...USA !!!

...Jesus ...Jesus ...Jesus !!!

Rinse and repeat the bald-faced lies 5,000 times (just since inauguration)

...and counting.

Coalage3 2 weeks 23 hours ago

Just look at the fake outrage as expressed by Senators Booker, Harris, and Blumenthal during the Cavanaugh hearing. Booker, in particular, should be nominated for an Oscar for his over the top performance. I really believe (wink, wink) that they need to review the "missing" documents so they can make a fair evaluaton. Ha Ha...what a joke they are. They would be better off to just come out and say that they are not going to vote to confirm Cavanaugh no matter what because it is all about politics with them. Cavanaugh is just as qualified to serve on the SC as Kagan or Ginsberg.

I am not a fan of Lindsey Graham, but he did say something right on the mark yesterday. He remarked..."if you want to appoint judges, then win elections".

What has happened to the democratic party in this country?

deepspace's picture
deepspace 2 weeks 23 hours ago

No, the deeper question is what has happened to the gullible minds, mostly uneducated, of a third of the nation? This is your brain on Fox News/Republican Party/Trump the Fool. There's yer fake news, laddie, lassie, Russian bot, or whatever ye be.

Coalage3 2 weeks 16 hours ago

Its not fake news that Cavanaugh will be the next SC justice. Its not fake news that the economy is doing better than anybody anticipated. Unemployment at record lows, including minority groups. Its not fake news that Trump is following through on a campaign pledge to redo some of the one-sided trade deals. It is not fake news that the infamous Russian dossier was bought and paid for by the democratic party for millions of dollars. That is real collusion.

The left is hysterical over what Trump says. Fair enough, but let someone run against him based on what he has actually done. The fact is that Trump would have been considered a democrat in years past just based on his economic and immigration policies. Some of us fondly remember when the democrats used to talk about protecting American industry and jobs. Not anymore. That in itself tells you how far the current democrats have gone completely off the rails.

If enforcing immigration laws makes someone a racist, then Barack Obama is the biggest one in the country since he deported more illegals than any president in history. And yes that includes separating children from parents as confirmed by his former Homeland Security director. Where was the outrage then? Where was Booker and Harris and Warren then? They were sitting on their hands because they are political hypocrites, hacks, and frauds.

What has happened to the democratic party in this country?

deepspace's picture
deepspace 2 weeks 1 hour ago

Again, you named the wrong party and asked the wrong questions.

So what, pray tell, has happened to your mind and all those who share the same skewed worldview, so far to the right it fell off the end of the bar into the spittoon? That's the real question for starry-eyed, sycophantic trolls who post endless, mind-numbing falsehoods on this once-fine blog. Practitioners of the Trump Cult, i.e. Republicans, need to take a serious look at themselves and their own heavy delusions instead of pointing their stink-fingers at everyone else, as Trump the Dear Leader constantly does. And now you.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Do it for for the sakes of your own sorry selves, if not for the good of the country and the sane among us. Hey, here's some more threadbare conservative advice to pass on to your fake president and his Organization of Orcs: Rise up out of La La Land and take responsibility for your own corrosive actions and divisive words. Come clean and face the judgment of the People like real men, albeit rich and privileged white men, instead of like sniveling cowards in the pockets of billionaires, like Putin the Puppet Master. Or is that too oxymoronic? Thus far, all Trump's actions and words indicate someone who is guilty as hell. For starters, forget Hillary's stupid emails and release Trump's damn tax returns! All of them. Let's get at the truth. All of it.

So let's talk about fake outrage and hysteria, hypocrites, hacks, and frauds. Ever been to or seen a Trump rally? Or listened to right-wing hate radio, watched Faux Fux News, or read "Alt Right" racist propaganda, or your everyday, whacked-out, conspiracy-theory websites? Of course you have. Quite a bit, obviously. By the way, all the above is the real “lügenpresse” (lying press) that is destroying our body politic. Notice that most of the white-supremacist perps and their enablers invariably vote Republican no matter what -- true blue through and through, transparent and shallow to the end. Why is that? And why does it seem that your own brand of fake outrage is primarily directed at only one party -- weirdly enough, the one not even in power? Go figure.

How about all the vitriolic, over-the top, beyond-the-pale, kiss-my-ass (pick your descriptors) floor speeches by Republican politicians ad nauseam during the Clinton and Obama turns at the helm? Mmmm, what's that hackneyed Fux News motto -- "Fair and Balanced"? Now there's some good old fashion Orwellian-speak. Or how about simply reading at random any of the numbed-out, robotic Trump-trolls strangely fixated on this blog -- dead-enders who couldn't give up the ghost even after it was shut down for six months. Sad. (My favorite theory is they're subconsciously crying for help, desperately seeking adult intervention from truth tellers like Thom.)

While gushing over Cover-it-all-up Cavanaugh (an unabashed, anti-union/anti-worker, corporatist Wall Street goon from way back) and groaning in ecstasy about their watered-down, upside down version of legislative fairness (yeah right), Republican boot-licking circle-jerkers always ignore, play down, or excuse how Mitch McTurtle (again) turned the People's government into a funny-book farce, a laughing stock of democracies everywhere. Always mindful of his wealthy donors' wishes and for self-serving, blatantly partisan political advantage, he stubbornly refused to hold fair-minded hearings on Merrick Garland for nearly a year -- a much more qualified judge than the latest slimy weasel the Heritage Foundation just dug out of the swamp, cleaned up, and handed off to Trump the Clueless Clown, in an all-out effort to help McTurtle ram the process through before Senators can do their job and properly vet Cavanaugh's long paper trail. In one fell swoop, Mitch the Whiny Bitch directly violated the whole spirit and intent of the Constitution (again), to which he swore an oath (yeah right). His one-sided, one-off, so-called "McConnell Rule" à la Merrick Garland has spun constitutional logic into a hopeless Gordian knot. And all his goddamn fellow Republican sell-outs know full well this was a huuuge abrogation of his public duty; yet, they still let him slide. So what else is new?

Sorry, some of your other Goebbels-esque "half-truths and big lies," spewing forth almost nonstop from your calloused fingertips, will have to wait for a proper cleansing later. To wit: "Republicans are the party of the workers." WTF?! Dear God in heaven, stick an ice pick in me throbbing temple and pray for me black soul!

And on immigration: Somehow in the atrophied brains of right-wing bubble-heads, it's not really such a bad thing after all that the irreligious, psychopathic toilet-tweeter in the White-man House had directly ordered a deliberate, unflinching policy to rip thousands of innocent, crying, little brown children in their formative years from the arms of their innocent, crying, little brown parents, and then throwing them into metal cages onto cold, cement floors like stray dogs, causing permanent psychological damage that will last a lifetime.

Help me out here; I'm at a loss. What would be the proper adjectives to describe an evil beyond the phrase "pure evil"? Perhaps radical evangelical Christianists who support this ungodly administration should strive to actually understand their bible instead of just thumping on it or using it as a cudgel against nonbelievers. King James, Luke 17:2: "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones." Just one?! Hell, Dildo Trump, lil' Jeffie Sessions, neo-Nazi Steve Miller, et all, just offended 3,000 of God's little brown ones. What should be their proper punishment -- something magnanimous just short of medieval justice, one would hope anyway? Perhaps being hung, drawn and quartered, with their severed limbs scattered to the four corners of Earth would be more fitting -- metaphorically speaking, that is, in the equivalent political sense. At the very least, "Vote the bums out!"

Republicans, the so-called party of family values (Hah!), is busily destroying families who are guilty of nothing more than misdemeanor border crossings, all too often because they were routinely and indiscriminately -- and illegally -- turned away at the legal crossings. Far too many of these downtrodden families are seeking legitimate asylum after escaping certain death, forced prostitution of their daughters, and the inevitable prospect of having their sons drafted as child soldiers in their gang-infested, "sh*t-hole" countries with dysfunctional governments, brought to us by the erstwhile, undemocratic, so-called "free"-market policies of the addled Reagan, henchmen like Oliver North (the new NRA fair-haired butt-boy), and the fascist boys from the widely discredited Chicago School of Economics. All Republican, all the way, with a huge helping of Ayn Rand/Koch brothers' libertarianism.

The long and despicable history of CIA and NSA foreign meddling is coming back to bite us in the ass.​ Vis-à-vis South and Central America, one revealing read that never loses its luster of truth is of course War is a Racket by Smedley Butler. Tried and true American fascism at its finest. Two more are Confessions of an Economic Hit Man and its sequel by John Perkins.

Somehow these unspeakable atrocities, carried out by the jack-booted thugs of ICES (Immigration and Customs Enforcement Stormtroopers, pronounced "ISIS") are excused because that damnable, uppity Obama had deported more undocumented immigrants than any other president to date. Sure, his aggressive policy of catching the worst of the criminals -- true evil-doers who committed actual serious crimes, not just run-of-the-mill traffic tickets, misdemeanors, and such -- did unfortunately break up families, just like what happens during the course of any other criminal adjudication, for citizens and non-citizens alike. But that wasn't the singular, overt goal of his policy, unlike Trump's wicked intent. By the way, Obama turned the tide. When his presidency ended, more immigrants were going south than coming north, a fact never acknowledged by Trump or his racist crowd of brain-dead zombies.

"Fascism will come to America wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." USA! USA! USA!

On the economy and jobs: How soon we forget. Google the "bikini graph." Despite fierce Republican resistance to any Obama-era legislative "win," (When the Tea Party Came to Town by Robert Draper), a Democratic administration managed to dig us out of the Republican Great Recession of 2008 that cost millions of jobs (much like FDR did after the Republican Great Depression of the 1930s) to hand the Republicans one of the longest expansions in modern times, the coattails on which they and Trump are now riding high, hypocritically taking credit and boasting without any agency whatsoever. In fact, the Republican Party and Republican policies are anti-worker and pro-billionaire. Always have been; always will be. No matter how hard you try to flip the script.

Note: Although you may post whatever jive turns your crank in this little shop of horrors and whores, why not stick to just one or two topics per discussion for easy consumption and debate, instead of wandering all over the place, which is Hot Coffee's wont? Karl Rove coined the term "dump-trucking," whereby one dumps so much garbage into a conversation that no one else can possibly refute it all without writing a book. Then, taking an undeserved victory lap, fake debaters will proclaim that a lack of response must be an affirmation of said lies. How convenient.

Full circle: So what exactly is your understanding of modern-day fascism? Not some sterile, abstract dictionary definition, but a real-life understanding in your own words of the actual, ongoing fact of it, and your apparent complicity as an unwitting authoritarian follower.

Coalage3 1 week 6 days ago

If that is the best you got, why don't you just stop now and quit embarassing yourself? If a group is trying to stifle my free speech and free assocation rights, then I consider them fascist in nature, if not in actual practice. Unfortunately, a good portion of the current democratic party fits that description very well.

As to destroying families at the border, the administration of the sainted Obama basically followed the same policies. As you know, he was responsible for the deportation of more illegal immigrants than any presiden in history. Geez, what a racist bigot he must be. Right?

If the economy improves under Trump, which it has, he gets the credit. If the economy fails under Trump, he will get the blame. Thats the way it works. He won the election so he gets to appoint the judges. Thats the way it works.

By the way, I will ask you the same question I asked on other Hartmann forums. And nobody could give me an answer. Unless you are an illegal immigrant, I want you to tell everybody on this board how the election of Trump has specifically harmed you. Now don't give me that nonsense that he is a bigot, an idiot, a nazi, or the usual lies spouted by the left. Tell us exactly how his election has personally caused you harm.

Have you lost your job due to his economic policies? How about your home? Have you had to go fight in a war that Trump started? Do you have less money in your bank account because of Trump? Come on, it should be an easy question to answer for a Trump hater.

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 1 week 6 days ago

I love the paid protesters in the Kavanaugh hearings. It appears the leftie/socialists are getting more desperate every minute. Nothing like a bunch of screeching people to help the cause.

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 1 week 6 days ago

I sure hope they release the FISA reports tonight. Just open up the whole can of worms and lets see whats really going on. OOPS I forgot CNN won't tell the dems about that.

Never mind!

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 1 week 6 days ago

As for Cory's big stand at the hearing,

“We cleared the documents last night after Senator Booker’s staff asked us to. We were surprised to learn about Senator Booker’s histrionics this morning because we had already told him he could use the documents publicly. In fact, we have said yes to every request made by the Senate Democrats to make documents public.”

Source: Twitter account for Seung Min Kim

Kend's picture
Kend 1 week 6 days ago

I am with Diane. If I was a Democrat I would be so embarrassed with the ridiculous screaming by these idiots. You would think the Democrat Senators would plead for it to stop but it seems they encourage it instead.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 1 week 6 days ago


In other words you have absolutely no clue what fascism actually is but love to hurl the word around as if you do, especially against the Democratic Party.

And no, Democrats are not "trying to stifle [your] free speech and free assocation [sic] rights," nor will they "do whatever it takes to silence any dissenting voice." You just pulled that out of your butt because it dovetails in with the whole body of lies that is the right-wing universe, the dime-a-dozen talking points that make up virtually 100% of your posts on the Thom Hartmann forums -- certainly nothing very original or savvy, mostly just shameless displays of crude ignorance.

Now ignorance is not necessarily stupidity, but willful ignorance certainly is. So what is it; are you not well informed or just plain stupid? Right-wing propaganda appeals to both types of lazy minds, the gullible who don't think for themselves and depend on authoritarian figures like Trump, Fux News hosts, and right-wing haters on the radio and the internet to tell them what (alternative) reality is. Mostly, they just hear what they want to hear, because it makes them feel safe in an uncertain world and vindicates their narrow attitudes and viewpoints.

The good news is that the hopelessly brainwashed only make up a shrinking third of the electorate and should get clobbered this November and again in 2020. As they say in the Army, bend over and grab yer ass, 'cause here it comes. Your time is up, troglodytes.

Speaking of whom, the only ones I see -- on this particular thread anyway -- who are either ridiculing or advocating to stifle free speech and free association are you, Diane, and Kend. Antifa certainly does not represent the Democratic Party just as radicalized white supremacists do not represent the Republican Party. (At least I hope not.) While each side has the constitutional right to assemble in protest or counter-protest, they do not have the right to violence. Democratic leaders have repeatedly condemned such acts. So clean the manure out your ears and quit lying about it.

In answer to your inane question, of which you seem so proud and mistakenly think has such great import: No, the installment of Trump by the outdated Electoral College (He lost the election by the People.) has not caused harm to me personally -- not yet. It soon will, however, when I'll be in the market for a new car, or for home improvements, or pay medical bills, or buy groceries, gas, electronics, or just about anything else I may need or want. His meataxe approach to an unnecessary and self-defeating trade war, if it continues on the same trajectory, will inevitably skyrocket prices across the board, put upward pressure on inflation, and force the Fed to jack up interest rates, exploding the cost of borrowing.

Given the facts that we are near the tail end of the second longest economic expansion in modern history, that his administration has deregulated an already wild-west shadow banking system, and that the vast majority of workers' wages have remained flat, most nonpartisan economists fear that we could be facing another major recession rivaling the Great Republican Recession of 2008. Possibly it could be much worse. Get back to us then and be sure " tell everybody on this board how the election of Trump has specifically harmed you." Perhaps you are a billionaire and will be insulted. Bully for you.

The reason your question is silly and pointless is that relying on anecdotal evidence from a limited sample does not indicate a larger trend. Then again, reading chicken bones is what passes for scientific research in Republican Bizarro World. You'd get better results by asking the people actually harmed by Trump's idiocy and bigotry -- say, legitimate asylum seekers, who are not merely immigrants, but who had their kids kidnaped and thrown into cages by Trump nonetheless. (No, Obama never had that policy, no matter how many times you repeat that despicable lie.)

Furthermore, it doesn't get any more personal than the dirty air we breathe, the tainted water we drink, and the poisoned food we eat as he guts the EPA. Similarly, pulling out of the climate accords and denying human-caused global warming through inaction will hand our kids, their kids, and their kids' kids a nightmare world on the brink of total collapse. (BTW, there's no such thing as "clean coal" and never will be.) Too bad you won't be around to ask them if they were harmed personally. All our hapless children will also be paying for the five trillion dollar tax giveaway to the billionaire class ($1.5 trillion immediately added to the deficit) that Trump gleefully signed off on. They will also be paying with blood and treasure for endless war as a result of lavishing taxpayer largesse on his billionaire buddies in the for-profit "defense" (offense) industry. I could go on, but those are the big issues that will harm everyone personally sooner or later.

Your question reveals one of the fundamental differences between so-called "conservatives" and liberals/progressives. The former only focuses myopically on their little egocentric patch of existence and wellbeing, to hell with everyone else; the latter, which, fortunately, is the majority of the human population, feels more empathy for others and can lift their inner spirits out of abject selfishness to care for those less fortunate. It comes down to whether you think we live in a "me" society or a "we" society. "We all do better when we all do better." -- Paul Wellstone.

I assume that you won't (your loss), but you really should read Conservatives Without Conscience by John W. Dean.

In regards to my feelings about Trump, hate is the wrong word. Disgust is more apt. One reason is his bumbling ineptitude at his job -- a man clearly out of his depth who simply has no business running the country domestically or interacting with our allies and enemies abroad, especially when he attempts to craft his more base instincts into policy, usually with disastrous results. (Read the anonymous oped by one of his senior aids published in the New York Times a few days ago, or the excerpts published in the Washington Post from Bob Woodward's latest book soon to be released, Fear: Trump in the White House.) Another is his deeply ingrained racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, and just plain bigoted attitudes on display daily for all to witness. Perhaps the biggest reason for disgust though is his severely partisan politics that fan the flames of hatred and divisiveness not only in our own population but, by extension, throughout the world. He's setting such a horrible example from such a powerful bully pulpit. Beyond all that, however, I also feel great sympathy on a human level for this terribly damaged soul, just as I would toward anyone who suffers from such all-consuming mental illness, coupled with declining mental capacity.

Speaking of embarrassment, If I was a troll, I would be red-faced embarrassed to have voted for this vindictive, loudmouthed, small-minded fool, a congenital pathological liar and malignant narcissist who stinks morally to high heaven and only thinks of himself first and foremost. (It has been leaked that even his own lawyers pleaded with Mueller in an off-the-record meeting to not put him under oath, because he simply is incapable of telling the truth or remembering all his lies -- so far, 5,000 in less than two years.) But through their own words, Trump trolls betray no sense of shame or self-reflection. How can one have a constructive debate with anesthetized people who are intellectually dishonest and refuse to accept indisputable facts and outward reality?

By the way, I will ask you the same question I've asked all the other right-wing trolls who post here. And nobody could give me an honest answer. Why do you hang around on the Hartmann forums anyway? Do you have some quirky psychological need (perhaps a deep-seated resentment) to talk back to Democrats/liberals/progressives/whatever -- you know, to give 'em a good what for, as if you fancy yourself a truth teller enlightening lesser minds? (Hint: that doesn't work unless you actually tell the truth.) If that's not the case, then why are you here?

simonsilverport's picture
simonsilverport 1 week 5 days ago


Coalage3 1 week 5 days ago

Just what I thought. You cannot name one way that the Trump presidency has personally harmed you. If you could have, you would have. I bet that you have even prospered since the beginning of his term and you are afraid to admit it.

Now that is very interesting since you believe him to be a terrible president. Right?

He must not be that bad if you cannot list even one single way in which he has harmed you. That's okay...not one progressive on this forum has been able to list any harm that Trump has done to them.

I'll make it even easier for you. Unless you are an illegal immigrant, what harm has Trump done to anyone in the US? Come on now...surely you must have an answer for that softball question?

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 1 week 5 days ago

‘Poontronage’: When Kamala Met Willie spartacus/harris /2020

Coalage3 1 week 5 days ago

Here is probably the best indication of just how good the economy is right now under Trump. Barack Obama says today that he deserves some credit for the economy. For BO to say that is an acknowledgement that the economy must be roaring. If I were Trump, I would use that clip every single chance I could.

Niccolo Caldararo's picture
Niccolo Caldararo 1 week 5 days ago

Humm, who wrote the oped piece in the New York Times? Donald Trump? Remember how he posed as an inside source before ( to promote himself? The idea in the NYTimes article and in Trump and his supporters since is that this is another example of what he and Bannon have described as the "Deep State " governing America in secret.


deepspace's picture
deepspace 1 week 5 days ago


Another Trumpie with poor reading comprehension. As they say, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Sorry for using so many words, I guess, but most or all of the gibberish and off-the-mark points you're sputtering about in your last two "dump-trucks" have already been duly answered above. What a waste of time that was.

"Trump won the election so he gets to appoint the judges. That's the way it works."
-- Coalage3

Tell that to Obama.

Okay, I think we're done here. The beatings will resume in November. Enjoy

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 1 week 3 days ago

Let the whining and stomping of hooves continue,

How many judges did obama appoint, MOSTLY under a Republican congress I might add?

The total number of Obama Article III judgeship nominees to be confirmed by the United States Senate is 329, including two justices to the Supreme Court of the United States, 55 judges to the United States Courts of Appeals, 268 judges to the United States district courts, and four judges to the United States Court of International Trade.

How many judges has President Trump appointed?

As of September 6, 2018, the United States Senate has confirmed 68 Article III judges nominated by President Trump, including 1 Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States, 26 judges for the United States Courts of Appeals, 41 judges for the United States District Courts, and 0 judges for the United Stats Court of International Trade.

President Trump has a long way to go to catch obama with just six more years in office so, as usual, the leftie/socialist crocodile tears are way out of proportion to actual reality.

I am spartacus

Coalage3 1 week 2 days ago

I am spartacus

Ha Ha...

Coalage3 1 week 1 day ago

With the mid-terms fast approaching, the voters should ask their congressional and senate candidates what they are going to do to assist the president in keeping this economy roaring. If they cannot give a cogent answer to that question, whether they be repub or dem, then you know you need to move on.

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 6 days 22 hours ago

From the Washington Post no less,

"Middle-class income rose above $61,000 for the first time last year, U.S. Census Bureau says"

Thank you President Trump.

chris2018's picture
chris2018 6 days 19 hours ago

I question the "all racism all the time" premise. I'm right of center, for the record, just so people know.
When in the past I've said that I think immigration laws should be enforced, with absolutely nothing else to go on, people have accused me of having "racially tinged views," of being afraid of foreigners, and of having "issues with brown people." We often hear that people who espouse my view are merely "covering up their obvious racism" while feigning a respect for the law.
I propose that, for those who have said these things and who should know better, politics is screwing with their brains.
And yet, this is a common refrain from the left. I can't say I think immigration laws should be enforced without having to wade through an hour of accusations. If I know people who think this way, others do, too.
So how are we to determine just how awfully racist the USA is in 2018 when bunches of the populous buy into specious reasoning?

(Updated to correct egregious spelling errors.)

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 2 days 13 hours ago

I tuned in today for the first time in quite a while. What a display. In your opening statement you convicted Brett Kavanaugh of raping a young lady. There was no alleged in your opening comment. I stopped listening after your personal group therapy session got into full swing but I have no reason to believe at any point you stopped peeing down your own leg. Shame on you big time.

So far we have:

- Her lawyer saying she's not saying it should disqualify him.

- Her entire social media history has been scrubbed.

- Avowed progressive Democrat who has donated to leftist causes

- Her parents losing their home at a foreclosure presided by his mother.

- The person she says pulled him off her denies it ever happened

- Kavanaugh's unequivocal denial, which is a thing of beauty

- Zero substantiating witnesses

- A 35 year old accusation held until time for the vote when Feinstein supposedly had it for months

- Feinstein's office refusing to set up discussions with her for congress

- A party outraged about an unsubstantiated report with zero evidence from 35 years ago who doesn't want to talk about the well-documented Keith Ellison allegations.

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 2 days 9 hours ago

There you go again Diane letting the facts get in the way. If they wanted facts they would have taken at least one of the women seriously that Billy boy molested.

However at least we will now start to get to the bottom of this FISA farce!!!!


Coalage3 1 day 19 hours ago

Of course, this is all political now. The democrats could care less about this accuser. If they were really "concerned" , Feinstein would have spoke up weeks ago. All they care about is stopping the Kavanaugh appointment at any cost. And the republicans are helping them. idiots!

The only supposed witness to the incident denies the accusation. The alleged victim supposedly cannot recall any other relevant details. An accusation itself is not evidence. Kavanaugh has already been investigated and vetted more than once. Let the woman testify, let Kavanaugh respond, and then McConnell/Grassley should immediately schedule the confirmation vote.

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 1 day 17 hours ago

Good morning HotCoffee. I hope you are well. I wish you would have caught at last part of Thom's show yesterday

I tune in to the leftie/socialist comedy radio hour only if there is something of political substance happening just to hear the hypocrisy pour forth from Thom and his callers.

Yesterday may have been the best example of talking out of both sides of one's mouth to date. Thom vacillated between ignoring Bill Clinton's proven indiscretions saying all presidents do it so it's OK, to one minute later outright accusing Kavanaugh of rape based on one persons (who has a major ax to grind) last minute, unproven CLAIM dredged up from 36 years ago. It was comical to say the least. Apparently making a fool of one's self over the airwavesis also OK. The show appears to have become a self therapy session for Thom to cope with a President who he helped put in office.

I will return to his leftie/socialist hour after the hearings next Tuesday as his daily re-writes of history are more than I can take.

Enjoy your day and remember to register your straws. They can be dangerous.

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 1 day 16 hours ago

LOL, hi Diane,

A great day to you as well!

I don't really listen to Thom anymore, however I get an email from him on fridays that reminds me to stop by here from time to time.

Yes, the nanny state .....straws and cow farts will be the downfall of the world...didn't you know? Do ya think the wildfires might have made up for all the spare the air days where Ca. couldn't warm their homes with a fireplace, or enjoy a BBQ?

I believe in a clean world....but what about never mentioned airplanes, chemtrails, GMOs, pesticides, rockets, you know the little stuff.

Ca. needs a real water storage plan...instead we get a railway to no where that no one wants.

Hope your state is smarter!

Can't wait to see the FISA docs & emails. The sooner the better.

Coalage3 38 sec ago

At least Grassley appears to have finally come to his senses and set a Friday deadline for the Kavanaugh accuser to agree to appear before the Judicial committee, or not. Unsubstantiated accusations should not delay the business of the senate, and it is also not fair to the nominee.

Feinstein and the dems are now channeling the ghost of Joe McCarthy. Congrats to them! And like McCarthy, their smear tactics and actions will come back to bite them in the rear end.

Have you no shame?

The Thom Hartmann Program - Aug 30th 2018

It seems it's all racism, all the time w/the GOP...Neo-Nazi robocall hits Iowa on Molly Tibbett’s murder: “KILL THEM ALL. ” Richard Wolff drops by about the National Debt. Is it a disaster or an OK thing? Also - Trump & The National Enquirer - Is the Economy Here To Serve Us Or Are We Here to Serve the economy?

Latest Headlines

Who rejected United States-North Korea peace talks?

There were conflicting reports on Sunday regarding a recent proposal for United States-North Korea peace talks which was allegedly made before North Korea"s recent nuclear test

U.K. Pound Falls As Markets Get Brexit Jitters

Bloomberg said on Monday the pound had sustained its biggest fall against the dollar in 11 months

Clinton: I'll defend Israel but push for 'two-state solution

Hillary Clinton believes both Republican candidates Donald Trump and Ted Cruz "missed the mark" with their approach to the Israel-Palestinian Arab conflict
From Screwed:
"If we are going to live in a Democracy, we need to have a healthy middle class. Thom Hartmann shows us how the ‘cons’ have wronged this country, and tells us what needs to be done to reclaim what it is to be American."
Eric Utne, Founder, Utne magazine
From Unequal Protection, 2nd Edition:
"Beneath the success and rise of American enterprise is an untold history that is antithetical to every value Americans hold dear. This is a seminal work, a godsend really, a clear message to every citizen about the need to reform our country, laws, and companies."
Paul Hawken, coauthor of Natural Capitalism and author of The Ecology of Commerce
From The Thom Hartmann Reader:
"Never one to shy away from the truth, Thom Hartmann’s collected works are inspiring, wise, and compelling. His work lights the way to a better America."
Van Jones, cofounder of and author of The Green Collar Economy