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@Quark: heh! There's a school of history that says its function is to inculcate virtue, rather than relate facts; so historical facts that are contrary to your notions of virtue are to be ignored or even rewritten. It's a profoundly conservative notion (...even when promoted by Stalinists.)
2B Roll : tell ya what: men can vote on whether vasectomy is legal, women can vote on whether abortion is legal. Deal?
For the record, I live in the American center of military and religious fervor, Colorado Springs....and ironically, the home of Ted Haggard, who successfully combined the above with his feined abhorence of homosexuals until his St. Peter got him in more trouble than his legions could forgive.
Regarding the "Gays in the Military" segment, a friend's military policeman husband volunteered for an elite group of Commandos, and was given 'special' training where all the men & women had to strip down together as preparation in case they were captured by the enemy. Many of the men of course, made crude comments about the women's bodies, in keeping with the theme of the day, I suppose...what military leaders thought up such perversion to be conducted in our armed forces?? I suppose your anti-gays guest Elaine Donnelly doesn't know our military is conducting such training sessions, or she would be ranting against it.
my login name is chuckle8 not chuckle
@Quark
You are right. Yesterday's posts are still missing. Thom & Co. have today's posts on Wed's blog roll. Sneaky Sneaky I just saw Mark's name and assumed it was yesterday's work.
@ Louise I must take my Merci back. Alors, Bon Aniversaire next Mercredi? 38 years?
Mon Dieu!
Broll,
In my opinion, Obama's most significant policy action is extremely difficult to demonstrate to the average person. Since I think everybody on this blog is way above average, I'll try my explanation, and you can tell me how it be said better.
Last January, Rachael Madow showed a graph of job losses in previous months. The chart looked like the value of trigonometri tangent as it approaches 90 degrees. It appeared that the unemployment rate of 1932 would be surpassed in less than a year. The very unpopular deficit spending that Obama undertook applied a brake to that fall that I did not believe he could do.
As far as women being the only ones allowed to vote on abortion, although I can understand where you're coming from, isn't abortion part of what is called "family planning"? Men are parts of families, aren't we?
DDay
Are you calling me Quark? By the way, I followed your instructions and it still only says there are 12 posts there. I actually find 13, which includes one of my posts that was deleted.
It seems you're being given special information. You lucky guy you.
rewinn,
History! You think she knows anything about history?!
Why not ask homophobes whether they acknowledge the debt Western Civilization owes to the 300 bisexual Spartans at Thermopylae?
Here is a question for those that can’t seem to tolerate gay couples getting the same rights as every other committed couple let alone being married. Would they support an amendment to DOMA or a stand alone law that denies marriage benefits to those people that get divorced? Primarily with respect to the US tax code and benefits that are given to married couples? I don’t believe divorce should be outlawed as there are compelling reasons not to stay with a person, but as a society we could certainly make marriage worth the paper it’s written on. Make the promise of until death do us part have consequences.
DDay,
I'm confused (more than usual!)
@ Quark
Yes.... Click on Wed from home page, then scroll down to Thurs. Nov.5th. yes I know that it doesn't make sense to find Thursday on Wednesday's Posts, but, that has been going on lately.
OK, I just sent Elaine Donnelly an email. Here's her contact info. if anyone else wants to do the same:
Center for Military Readiness
Elaine Donnelly - President
http://cmrlink.org/
I've been in that stall....just curious......it's a local attractiion.....awash in history...and then giggled.
DDay
You merci beaucouped Louise. Does that mean that those posts r back? I don't see them.
Frankly, I'm a big fan of guys and gals showering together . . .
I served in the Canadian Forces before and after the prohibition of gays serving. The rationale before allowing gays to serve was that gays in the closet could be blackmailed and therefore are a security risk. When the military realized that if gays were allowed to serve openly then there was no security risk. The attitude changed overnight, from "gays are a risk" to "I'm gay!" "Who cares!" That's not to say there aren't the occasional homophobe, but it's a non-issue for the most part.
Study Finds Gays Do Not Undermine Canadian Military Performance
18 April 2000 - SANTA BARBARA, CA. A new 44-page study of gays and lesbians in the Canadian military has found that after Canada’s 1992 decision to allow homosexuals to serve openly in its armed forces, military performance did not decline.
The study is the most comprehensive academic study of homosexuality in a foreign military ever compiled and reflects an exhaustive inventory of relevant data and research. Its title is "Effects of the 1992 Lifting of Restrictions on Gay and Lesbian Service in the Canadian Forces; Appraising the Evidence".
The study was written by Aaron Belkin and Jason McNichol. Belkin is Director of the Center for the Study of Sexual Minorities in the Military at the University of California, Santa Barbara. McNichol is Doctoral Candidate in Sociology at the University of California, Berkeley and Director of ELM Research Associates, a non-partisan research firm in Berkeley.
Key findings are as follows:
* Lifting of restrictions on gay and lesbian service in the Canadian Forces has not led to any change in military performance, unit cohesion, or discipline.
* Self-identified gay, lesbian, and transsexual members of the Canadian Forces contacted for the study describe good working relationships with peers.
* The percent of military women who experienced sexual harassment dropped 46% after the ban was lifted. While there were several reasons why harassment declined, one factor was that after the ban was lifted women were free to report assaults without fear that they would be accused of being a lesbian.
* Before Canada lifted its gay ban, a 1985 survey of 6,500 male soldiers found that 62% said that they would refuse to share showers, undress or sleep in the same room as a gay soldier. After the ban was lifted, follow-up studies found no increase in disciplinary, performance, recruitment, sexual misconduct, or resignation problems.
* None of the 905 assault cases in the Canadian Forces from November, 1992 (when the ban was lifted) until August, 1995 involved gay bashing or could be attributed to the sexual orientation of one of the parties.
http://www.palmcenter.org/press/dadt/releases/study_finds_gays_do_not_un...
Soldiers march in Toronto Gay Pride parade
Lt. Steven Churm, one of 10 soldiers from across the country who marched in uniform, said their presence sends a message that the Canadian military is inclusive and an equal-opportunity employer.
"The message to the public is that the Canadian Forces is an employer of choice. We have employment opportunities that people can pursue, regardless of gender identity, sexual orientation," he told CBC News.
"For our own members, they can be proud of what they're doing and also be proud of who they are."
To mark its place in the festivities, the Canadian Forces set up an information booth in an area of the city where thousands of people gathered for the start of the parade.
The parade is the main event for Canada's largest gay pride celebration and marks the end of a week of festivities that organizers say attracted about one million people.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/06/29/gay-pride.html
Army on parade for gay recruits
THE army came out in style this weekend when it launched a recruitment drive aimed at tempting more gays, lesbians, transvestites and even transsexuals into the ranks.
It set up a recruitment stall at the Gay Pride festival in Manchester, backing its new-found commitment to homosexual rights by sending 10 gay and lesbian soldiers in combat trousers and tight T-shirts to join thousands of marchers on a five-mile parade through the city.
They strode out behind a float put together by the RAF, which was also recruiting. Themed on a fighter jet, it featured an oversized cockpit and a banner proudly proclaiming, “RAF rise above the rest”.
At the stall, the men in uniform, complete with medals, mingled with eager would-be recruits, one dressed in tight leather shorts and a pink cowboy hat.
It was the first time the army had actively tried to recruit from such groups. It says it simply wants to tap into the talents of the gay population.
Lieutenant-Colonel Leanda Pitt, commander of regional recruiting in the northwest, said: “It is such a massive event in the Manchester calendar that we can’t afford not to attend. As far as the army is concerned, sexual orientation is a private matter.”
For campaigners, however, the sight of gay soldiers on parade was more reminiscent of a victory march.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article559936.ece
@ DRichards
Thank you. That was the best reasoned and written editorial that I have read in some time. I wish I could write as well as Greg Palast.
Exposure to gay folk causes irrational fear and soldiers are so woosey that they can’t handle fear!
AND that’s her ‘rational” excuse for excluding gay folk?
Excuse me . . . but WTF!!!!!
Thom, as you know, your guest was speaking complete and total nonsense.
But, as with all these homophobes, this argument always seems to boil down to "gays just would not be able to control themselves".
As for "behavior problems", if someone does something improper, they are dismissed.
There is actually a FAR greaer threat of homophobes committing violence or lying about a gay soldier to get them ejected than there is of a gay soldier jeopardizing their commission through misbehavior.
Wow! I would email that woman Thom just had on to talk about gays in the military, but I didn't catch her name or organization. She was just a rude homophobe!
The problem with letting men and women shower together is that the men are interested in seeing the women nude. If a gay man wants to see a man naked he can just look in a mirror. Does this mean we should ban mirrors in the military? Like Thom's story about the high school pool. Coeds being naked together is a different issue than gay and straight men being naked together.
If your last guest was the best that the gay-haters have to offer, I'd say that they know they've lost.
She didn't even have the manners to say, "Thank you for having me on your program." Thom was very patient when she tried to filibuster, reading off paragraphs of stuff and refusing to answer questions.
Thanks for providing a good example. I don't know if I have the patience. Maybe I should try vegitarianism?
If someone is transgendered they can't stay with themselves.
Institutionalized xenophobia is a piss-poor and heinous reason to inflict curtailed human rights on any flesh and blood human being.