Let them eat Tennyson-

Then the bells rang loud and deep,
"God is not dead nor doth he sleep."
The Wrong shall fail and Right prevail
With Peace on Earth, Good Will towards Men.

XXXXX

I say let them do it! There is no way we are going to convince these zealots that they will be responsible for a world economic havoc if they do vote on a debt-ceiling. So let them do it. That way, when and if the world economic machine does grind to a halt, we will know exactly who to blame.

History is a one-way process - at any one second, say, history can be any of billions of future possibilities. It can never be re-wound. And you can never prove a negative, or argue that if only we would of done this, we could of avoided that. Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

This is exactly the case when President Obama was elected. We pretty much state that the election of McCain/Palin would have proved disastrous for America. We state that bailing out the Big Banks and the mortgage mess saved our economy. The Republicans continuously state that Obama's Stimulus Plans will never work. But yet we cannot prove that any of it would logically follow from the premises - we can only see and observe what has HAPPENED based on what has actually transpired. We really do not know if the election of McCain/Palin would have proved disastrous. We really do not know that the bank bailouts saved our economy – but we know that the banks are still making tons of $$$ and are still open. As to Obamas' stimulus, we do know that it saved the car companies, and there were some job creation, and the economy did not go into free-fall.

To really know for sure what the real cause and effect is, you need controls. You need to have one premise as a control and then you play a number of different premises against the control to see which one works the best. Unfortunately, with the historical process one does not have that luxury! You would have had to have concurrently both the McCain/Palin and the Obama presidency to draw a conclusion as to which one was more successful – but we all know that this is not possible! So we all play that “prove a negative game”. After all is said and done, we still do not, and will never know, what would have happened with a McCain/Palin presidency.

What would have happened if Bush had not stolen the Presidency in 2000? For sure America would be very different place than it is today. How different? We will never know.

So let the neo-cons vote on a debt limit! Reasonable people know pretty much what will happen just based on logic and the laws of economics. But for the zealots, it will always be an open sore always ready to be scratched – what if only we would have voted on that debt limit? How different the world would be! Well, you’ll never know for sure until you do it. Go for it zealots – throw the dice!

MONETARY REFORM

No one is talking about the real problem. No one is addressing the root cause.

We deal with our diseased country the way the medical community has come to handle our health problems; medicate the symptoms rather than confront the cause of the illness.

This country and the world face innumerable crises, which require solutions, not inexpedient stop-gap measures. These crises are all symptoms, not the disease. Unless we take the necessary steps to treat the cause of the sickness, the symptoms will never be extirpated.

At the root of our critical condition, the obstacle to the resolution of the crises we face, is a debt-based monetary system. Nobody can pay off a debt by borrowing more money. That only serves to create more debt. It's not unlike throwing gas on a fire to extinguish it.

Few people realise that the monetary system of america and most of the world is based on money which is issued as debt. Whether paper currency or electronic data, it is all loaned into circulation with interest due.

There is another significant fact about which most are unaware; no money, paper or electronic is ever created to pay the interest. Only the principal is entered into circulation. The result of this process is the endless accumulation of debt, which can never be paid off as long as the system remains unchanged.

Money is a fiat of law, not a commodity.

“If congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given them to use themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations.” - Andrew Jackson

“The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity.” - Abraham Lincoln

Unless and until the creation and regulation of money is restored to the government of the people, as the constitution stipulates, it is simply physically and mathematically impossible to pay off our debt, balance our books and carry on commerce in a truly free market. Our currency must be issued as debt-free government notes and only in the proportions necessary to conduct commerce freely.

Thomas Jefferson knew this and warned us;

“If the American people ever allow banks to issue their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations which will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property, until their children wake homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.” - Thomas Jefferson

Andrew Jackson knew it and became the only president to ever pay off the national debt. He did it by kicking out the privatised central bank.

Abraham Lincoln knew it and was murdered for his intention to keep the country's money under national control and away from the private sector.

Representative Dennis Kucinich introduced monetary reform legislation, H.R. 6550, The National Emergency Employment Defense Act, to the 111th Congress, in the house of representatives, December 17, 2010.

Why has no one even heard of it?

Why is the general public kept in ignorance regarding the nature of our monetary system?

Without the passage and implementation of H.R. 6550, we will never be able to effectively address any of the critical problems we face. The issues of healthcare, climate change, renewable energy, infrastructure, the national debt, the economic monstrosity of Wall Street and the international banking cartel can never be resolved; nor can the programs required to promote the general welfare be maintained sustainably as long as the debt-based monetary system remains in place.

Please write, fax, call and email your representatives, now and repeatedly, demanding that they sponsor and pass H.R. 6550 as soon as humanly possible, if not sooner.

"Once a nation parts with the control of its currency and credit, it matters not who makes the nations laws. Usury, once in control, will wreck any nation. Until the control of the issue of currency and credit is restored to government and recognized as its most sacred responsibility, all talk of the sovereignty of parliament and of democracy is idle and futile." - William Lyon Mackenzie King, the tenth Prime Minister of Canada

The repukelacons won't have to destroy the economy (as if they haven't already)...Obama will give in to all their demands (which, BTW, will - can only - devastate the economy more.

The repulicans don't have the guts to go as far destroying the worlds economy Their bluffing

The Republican point of view is really hard to understand. Ultimately they are whittling away at something that eventually will be themselves. It's an insane pyramid scam that everyone will become vulnerable of eventually depending on how severe the cuts get. It will affect friends and relatives as well as public figures negatively. They have to be careful because they just may not realize what their asking for in the long run. Their ardent supporters are in fact the biggest whiners and once they've

accomplished their goal of trashing the economy vivid reality will come calling on them.

As someone who has seen it all in my sixty two years I can attest to the dog chasing it's tail economic strategy. Growing up in the agricultural environment I was raised with a work ethic where money

was not the issue but the well being of friends and neighbors was. Money was just the lubricant for taking care of one another. The same goes for soldiers in combat. The well being of your buddies comes first above the mission. We have made heros of those like Ronald Reagon, who's philosophy

had to do with the rights of huge corporations at the risk of individual citizen. We put our agenda of getting ours first and keeping it, above common decency and the American tradition of helping our neighbor. In this nation we have a slim chance to resurrect ethical compassion for the good of all.

To educate, care for widows, single mothers, and victims of crime, abuse, and neglect. We have a slim chance to shine a brighter light for the rest of the world. Economic solvency I believe is three dimensional. It has to do with what we have done in the past , where we are in the present, and where we are headed in the future. If the republicans are afraid that compassion may be subject to

fraud, then that validates they just approve of selective fraud from their favorite campaign contributors.

Thom Re Obama speech BRAVO I Love it when he talks ' that way' lol Lets keep them honest www.whitehouse.gov       202 456 1111 M-F to 5 pm www.congress.gov 

SPEAK OUT FOLKS BE ACTIVE PUSH YOUR REPS HARD TO DO RIGHT THING

NO EXCUSES NONE

I don't see why anyone is the least bit concerned about the debt ceiling. It will be raised, let there be no doubt. How do I know this?

Three questions:

1) If the United States of America defaults on its debts, what happens to the stock market?

2) Who stands to lose the most?

3) Who owns Congress? By that, I mean who are most Republicans (and some Democrats) beholden to?

As I understand it, playing politics with the debt ceiling can lead to nothing less than the permanent destruction of the American Way of Life. Who honestly believes that the USA's "Board of Directors" would actually allow that to happen?

cla,clap, clap, mathboy.

Here's my contribution (I hope Thom and Louise read it)

http://www.truthout.org/and-if-we-were-change-everything

Would you please explain why social security is mis-named as a entitlement. I believe it has something to do with the resistance to re-pay the treasuries at their proper maturity date. That's the only reason one would call ss an expense.

We need to stop all these polluting wars, raise taxes on imports so this way it would be cheaper to make products here in the U.S Also tax the wealthy a higher percentage 74%

The Thomas Jefferson Foundation, the non-profit which owns and runs Monticello, decided to invite Peter Peterson as the keynote speaker as part of Jefferson's birthday festivities. Unfortunately, Peterson took the opportunity to keep spreading the falsehood that Medicare and Social Security are the main problems for our so called debt crisis. Follow the link below for the text of the speech..

By the way, We can no longer listen to you on the radio here in Charlottesville, the AM station AM1450, abruptly changed the format two weeks ago and is now broadcasting ESPN radio all day...

http://www.monticello.org/site/blog-and-community/posts/peter-g-peterson-speaks-americas-fiscal-challenges-jefferson-birthday-