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rladlof.
You seem to think my posts are discussing whether or not god exists. Reread my posts. I only present a proof that atheism is not a religion. I make no argument for deity existence one way or the other.
You are conflating concept with reality. A concept can exist wether or not the reality actually does.
Your premise is a good illustration of circular reasoning: "Ignorance of a deity does not negate that entity.". You presuppose your conclusion before you've proven it. Your premise is that this "entity" is a given. My own premise only states that there is a concept that we are discussing. This requires no proof, only agreement of terms:Responding to my posts using my concepts to make your point implies that you agree that the concepts(theism and atheism) exist. If you can't distinguish concept from reality you are beyond any illumination that I can provide for you and you are a poor advocate for your own point of view.
I am talking about the definition of 2 concepts, I'm not attempting to prove the existence of a god. If you have a rebuttal, make sure you are rebutting something I'm talking about.
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Seed, Time, Harvest.
The formula of life.
Although,
Intelectual property, this is the true realm of wealth/creation as it requires no resources, only life energy. This is the frontier of the explorer/maker.
Debt, ( credit ) as a citizen matures to legal culpability one becomes financially viable and able to indenture ones life energy. This is the sowing field of the moneylender . This is the frontier of the predator.
Bandwidth ( a region of energy spectra, generated electronically and controlled with legalism and technology) . By creating bandwidth and designating ownership , one can control/nurture/exploit the real ground over which one receives (downloads/uploads) content. This is a sowing/reaping field in a landless story.
Get busy farmers or you will soon become share croppers.
Tom added his own comments to a legal definition of entrapment. Nowhere in law is it required for officers to give choices--only that without enticement the subject is predisposed to commit the unlawful act. If I say to you, "I'm bored" and you reply, "Let's go steal a car," you're had. If I say, "I need a car; I'll give you $5,000 to get me a new one" and you say, "I'll be right back with one," you have been enticed. The guy showed and acted on a predisposition by all accounts.
Tom added his own comments to a legal definition of entrapment. Nowhere in law is it required for officers to give choices--only that without enticement the subject is predisposed to commit the unlawful act. If I say to you, "I'm bored" and you reply, "Let's go steal a car," you're had. If I say, "I need a car; I'll give you $5,000 to get me a new one" and you say, "I'll be right back with one," you have been enticed. The guy showed and acted on a predisposition by all accounts.
The internet is the last bastion we have for free and open communication in this country! With most of the mainstream media controlled by the corporations, we have to resort to the internet to find out the truth. If the corporations take over the internet, we will all be consigned to the dark and our democracy will be truly lost.
When I came in to work this morning, there was a statement as to the federal government's policy as to the feds owning my work computer. We were told to agree that they could look to see any place that we go on our work computers.
A coworker went to see what was going on with Wikileaks. Her computer was frozen--IT could not find a problem and that there were no viruses.
I feel that the feds are looking to anyone that went to see what Wikileaks was leaking.
@rladlof, when you get down to it are not all religions a mental construct, a philosophy?
N
Cold is the absence of heat. Atheism is the absence of religion. Atheism isn't actually anything, it is the lack of something. Exactly the way a non-smoker compares to a smoker. They are defined by what they aren't but that is only a category if you make smokers the default.
[Edited for attrocious typing]
@JAMIE: BINGO!
@MDFISHER272:
By your own reasoning: Ignorance of a concept does not undefine that concept . . . Ignorance of a deity does not negate that entity.
The logic in your original example is circular. The outcome is dependent directly on the supposition which is the outcome. Your observation on words and concepts is an example of inverted reasoning. Not all animals are white horses. Consider purchasing a book on rhetoric and logic.
And yes, if there is no matrix in which to codify a concept it can not exist. This is why I bellow at Libertarians and Objectivists . . . The very language they design their collection of individuals bullshit in is the ultimate societal construct . . . LANGUAGE. So, if there is no idea for another to be defined as the "absence of" there is no idea. The state of existence may remain unchanged but no one would ever decide to label what is by that which isn't unless there was a group of jack_holes running about making up sh**, the universe would simply be.
@MAXROT:
Atheism is a mental construct, a philosophy, that some fanatics treat in the very same manner that some faith-based religious fanatics treat their mental constructs. Atheism by definition describes the state of existence without a divine being. Some atheists so miss the divine being, they elevate the concept of atheism into divinity and ascribe it beingness . . . Thus wallowing in the very thing they dispise BUT that is not the true nature of atheism.
In Eastern thought, the belief in nothing is Taoism.
In Western thought, the belief in nothing is Existentialism.
All hail the void!
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION THAN WHAT CLASSIFICATION DO YOU PUT IT UNDER?
Simply answer that, if Atheisem is not a religion than what is it, because every argument against it being a religion is simply that, a claim that it's not a religion, yet never have I heard what it is, what to contrast it to.
N
@ OPEDWRITER:
I concur . . . Evangelism is not religion. Evangelism is an aspect of some religions. This line of argument would have flipped Thom’s assertions and forced a re-definition of terminology. On the other hand, folk tend to think of it as a defining characteristic of Christianity BUT it the practice is not confined to Christians . . . There is imprecision in your languaging.
Side Note: There were times at the Hebrews were more proselytizing . . . It tended to work out badly over time . . . Herod, who was a vicious, murderous tyrant, was the fruit of forced conversion. Additionally, while followers of Shammai would tend to turn potential converts away . . . Followers of Hillel would be more likely to emulate their intellectual leader by immediately converting folk . . . Ascribing traditions of some Jews who call themselves “Orthodox” to Jews as whole can be problematic at best.
As for the labeling of us atheists:
Religious people self-appropriated the phrase "evangelical" as part of their own identity. Outsiders didn't tar them with the label until it stuck.
When Thom labels us "evangelical atheists" he is insulting our beliefs and by extension, us. Thom, using his bully pulpit, is being chauvanist. Atheists do not self-identify as "evangelical atheists" no more than black people identify themselves with the phrase "colored people".
How would you like me to label your beleifs Thom? How does "chauvanist theist" fit?
Now imagine that I have a syndicated radio show and I kept repeating the label I want to tar you with, day after day: "chauvanist theist", "chauvanist theist".
On many occasions Thom has admonished callers for unfairly labeling others. Time to practice what you preach Mr. Hartmann.
You have to let go of your definition of the word religion. Don't confuse the word with a belief in something. Its completely logical to have a belief in nothing. When claiming you believe in nothing, then you by default believe in nothing. You can define yourself by what you're not, but that doesn't mean you don't exist, because you say your not like anything else. If you are incapable of abstract thought, then you are incapable of believing in anything. That's not the same as holding a belief in nothing.
Atheism is a religion, an unorthodox religion.
N
Einstein proved that the concept of oberver is not only relevant but absolutely necessary. There is no possibility of accurate measurement without the presence of an observer. This is considerd basic logic.
I gave no circular logic. I could just as easily posited that the tribe was told about a god or many gods but then they chose to just treat the tales as fiction. Now, they still have no concept of "atheism" but they are explicitly atheist. Whether they have a word for atheism or not is irrelevant. They are still existing in the atheist state.
It's like you are trying to say that if you don't have a word for a concept that the concept doesn't exist. No reasonable person believes that.
Ignorance of a concept does not undefine that concept.
@ Blue MARK:
Religion is a collection of beliefs and rites that can be held by a majority of one . . . The issue is that with only one would the concept of language exist for the concept of religion fashioned from?
Thom;
Your definition of religion - as evangelism - relies on a Christian model. But if you look at Judaism, it would not qualify as a religion under that definition. Groups like Chabad only preach greater observance to other Jews, and the Orthodox model is to turn away those wishing to convert 3 times.