Thom talks to Gary Kreep about Obama's Birth Certificate, 28 July 2009

Thom Hartmann: The so-called "Birther" movement is planning for Barack Obama’s birthday. I just got a note here from the desk of, actually I got it a few days ago, from the desk of Gary G. Kreep. Gary is the executive director of the United States Justice Foundation, is their website. Big picture of Michael Reagan, the chairman of their advisory board, on the front page. And he says “Barack Hussein Obama’s "birthday",” in quotes, "is coming up in just two weeks on August 4th, so we have a special birthday surprise planned for him and I would like you to take part.” And then basically it goes through a whole, bill of particulars which we’ll get to in a moment. And wraps up, “The evidence demands that Barack Obama answer why he has been hiding the truth from the American people about his eligibility to run for and serve as President.

Now in the midst of this, we have a wide variety of perspectives on the presidency of President Obama. Although I think the new chairperson of the Young Republicans, a 38-year-old woman named Audra Shay, perhaps highlights it. 'He’s a little odd', is the point. He’s got a middle name of Hussein, his father was African, he is half African-American, he is African-American arguably. His mother was white. And she posted a laudatory post on a, cosigning a racist FaceBook post that said "Obama Bin Lauden [sic] is the new terrorist...Muslim is on there [side]...need to take this country back from all these mad", well the word they used was coons, it’s offensive, I don’t think it’s something you can’t say on the radio, but it’s, "and illegals." And then she replied, the President, the new chairperson of the Young Republicans, “You tell 'em Eric! lol.” We’ve seen 'Barack the magic Negro', emails depicting watermelons and whatnot. And so I wanted to get Gary Kreep on. The executive director, and president I guess, of the United States Justice Foundation, And just get this straight up. Gary welcome to the show.

Gary Kreep: Thank you sir.

Thom Hartmann: 378 to nothing, yesterday, the House of Representatives passed a resolution, asserting, 'whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii...' None of the, now there’s a number of folks who are, I guess, on your side on this issue, who simply didn’t vote. There’s 435 members of Congress and it was a vote of 378 to zero. Why didn’t they vote no?

Gary Kreep: I have no idea. First, Thom, if I could, I'd like to say that I find those comments, those racist comments, no matter who they’re posted by, whether they’re posted by Republican or Democrat, AIP, whoever, I find those comments to be completely reprehensible. Racism has no part in this. It’s un-American, it’s un-Christian, and if that person that you quoted, whatever the person's name is, if that person actually said those, and they’re an official with the Republican Party, then that person should resign, because racism has no part in this.

Thom Hartmann: So what is it then, Gary? I mean you had George Romney, I grew up in Michigan, I remember when George Romney was going to run for President, back in the ‘60’s. And he was born in Mexico, of American parents. Nobody raised a peep back then. He was a white guy.

Gary Kreep: Well first of all, there was a peep raised about John McCain, who is a quote ‘white guy.”

Thom Hartmann: And immediately, that peep got, you know, hey, come on, he is an American citizen. His parents are American citizens. He was born in Panama.

Gary Kreep: But the Democrats held hearings on it to make a determination whether was an American citizen. Right?

Thom Hartmann: Not to the best of my knowledge, no.

Gary Kreep: No, they did. You can look in the congressional records, sir. They did hold hearings on it, and they finally passed a resolution to clear him, he was an American citizen, okay?

Thom Hartmann: Okay. So Congress yesterday passed a resolution declaring that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. Should we say in both cases, case closed?

Gary Kreep: No. Because number one: they’re basing it on potentially false information. Number two: They didn’t hold hearings. I mean you know, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. The Democrats went out of their way to hold hearings on John McCain. They never held hearings on Barack Obama. Is that racism? Well, maybe it is. Or maybe it’s because the Democrats have control of Congress and, you know, they don’t need to worry about it, okay. But the point is that the issue is not a racist issue. My client in the case is an African-American. My client in the case is not a Republican. None of my clients in the case are Republicans.

Thom Hartmann: This lawsuit that you’re bringing to force President Obama to come into court and produce his birth certificate.

Gary Kreep: Yes.

Thom Hartmann: But he’s already produced his birth certificate.

Gary Kreep: No he hasn’t.

Thom Hartmann: Yes, yes he has.

Gary Kreep: No, sir, he hasn’t. If you look at the document that’s been revealed, it is not a Hawaiian birth certificate. It is a certification of live birth. It is not a certified copy of his birth certificate.

Thom Hartmann: There is also a copy, the White House put it online, it’s a photograph, you can see the raised type of the seal, you can see you know the whole thing is right there. It’s an actual birth certificate. But let’s assume for a moment, Gary Kreep, with United States Justice Foundation, Let’s assume that somewhere along the line, let’s say when Barack Obama’s mom was dying of cancer, for example. I mean I’ve moved a bunch of times, he moved a bunch of times. Um, there are documents of my life, I’ve been looking for the last 15 years for my pilots’ license, for example. I totally lost it. And I have not been able to figure out how to get to the FAA to get it reissued. Let’s assume for the moment that he actually lost his birth certificate. So what?

Gary Kreep: So he could get a certified copy of it and present it.

Thom Hartmann: But that’s the certificate of live birth. That is the certified copy.

Gary Kreep: No, no, no it’s not, sir. Not under Hawaiian law. Okay, the certification of live birth is a document, which according to Hawaiian law itself, is not recognized as proof of birth in Hawaii.

Thom Hartmann: So are you suggesting, that his mother, when he was born, said, 'okay, let’s engage in a conspiracy so that this guy, my half-African son, can someday become President of the United States' and what, take us over from within?

Gary Kreep: I never said that, sir.

Thom Hartmann: I’m asking.

Gary Kreep: You may have that theory, I don’t have that theory. Because that would mean you’re a conspiracy theorist. Anyway…

Thom Hartmann: Let’s assume for a minute that he’s actually, in this case, what is the harm of having this man, who certainly, other than the couple years when he lived in Indonesia when he was six years old, has grown up in America, considers himself an American, has, I think most people would agree, American values, or maybe you disagree on that. What is the harm of his being President?

Gary Kreep: If he was born in Kenya, which is, what is now Kenya, which is what we believe, then as a matter of Constitutional Law he cannot be President of the United States.

Thom Hartmann: And what is the harm?

Gary Kreep: It's not a matter of the harm, sir. A lot of people back in the 1800’s said there was no harm in having slaves. There was no harm in a variety of things. But it was still unconstitutional, it was still morally wrong. And if it’s unconstitutional, then it should not be allowed to stand. Unless we’re going to decide, well we’re just going to obey the constitution whenever we want to, only if we agree with it. What’s to go next? Freedom of speech? The right to keep and bear arms? You know, freedom against self-incrimination?

Thom Hartmann: Well I would suggest to you that a lot of those are already gone, Gary, and probably you and I actually agree on those things, that the Bush Administration, and to some extent the Clinton Administration and others before them, have eviscerated many of our rights under the constitution.

Gary Kreep: I agree with you sir, in fact...

Thom Hartmann: That the 4th amendment has gone down the toilet, that the 1st amendment is in big danger.

Gary Kreep: I agree.

Thom Hartmann: That the 2nd amendment, the 5th, 6th and 7th amendments, 6th, 7th, and 8th amendments, excuse me. You know with the whole Guantanamo thing, Dick Cheney, he wanted to send troops into New York state. I mean this is, to arrest American citizens in clear violation of both the 4th amendment and the Posse Comitatus Act, we’ve got some real problems here. Isn’t it…

Gary Kreep: If you had done any research on me, you would have found out that I have spoken out on those issues during the Bush Administration. I and Bob Barr were two of the only so-called conservatives that opposed the extensions of the Patriot Act to warrantless searches.

Thom Hartmann: So the head of the public health department in the state of Hawaii, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, says, "I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008." We have a half a minute left by the way. Why not just stop at that point?

Gary Kreep: Well, first of all, I think that that is a slight misquote. Because she said that the only, the original quote she said that she had seen the vital record and…

Thom Hartmann: She issued this yesterday.

Gary Kreep: I’m sorry. Well I haven’t seen that, that’s a brand new quote because two days ago she issued a quote where she didn’t say that. So unless she’s changed her quote again from her quote last year, because she changed it from last year to this year after the big scare came out about the records being destroyed. Well CNN that Mr. Obama’s birth certificate had been destroyed in 2001.

Thom Hartmann: Right, okay. So now she, the director is saying 'I’ve seen it, it’s here'. Are you willing to apologize?

Gary Kreep: She has said that she’s seen the birth certificate. She hasn’t said where he was born.

Thom Hartmann: Well no, she's...

Gary Kreep: Unless it’s a brand new quote that I haven’t seen.

Thom Hartmann: Okay. Gary Kreep. The web site, United States Justice Foundation, Thanks, Gary.

Gary Kreep: Thank you.

Transcribed by Suzanne Roberts, Portland Psychology Clinic.

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