Transcript: Thom Hartmann: Do I Fear Big Government? But wait...there's more! 14 December '11

Christmas came early for Conservatives who hate government.

This week - a new Gallup Poll came out showing 64% of Americans fear "Big Government."

So needless to say - GOP TV - a.k.a Fox so-called News jumped on the story and plastered it across their airwaves all day long.

In fact - I was invited on the Fox Business Channel to talk about it.

And I actually agreed - I fear big government too...at least the sort of big government George W. Bush and the Republicans brought us:

David Asman: So first of all, Thom, what do you fear most - big government or big business?

Thom Hartmann: Hey Dave, I actually have concerns about both. I want a government that's big enough to make sure that my food is safe, that my roads work, that the car, that when I travel over here I don't get, the streets are functional, that the police are working, that the fire department, the army. But I really am not all that enthusiastic about a government that is looking into my email or my personal mail without a warrant from a judge, or, you know, this sky drone circling the sky, watching...

All the way back to the George Washington administration, Dave, if you could ask Americans, are you worried about big government, the answer is yes. That's why the constitution is a restraint on our government.

But there's a lot more to the Gallup poll than just fear of big government - after all - as I said in that interview yesterday - there's always been a streak of mistrust among Americans toward big government.

It's engrained in our culture - it's the reason why we have the Constitution we have.

And I'd bet if we broke the numbers down - people don't "fear" Medicare or Social Security - or many of the other things that Conservatives call "Big Government".

What they fear are the threats of big government: for example the surveillance of the PATRIOT Act, Predator drones flying all over our heads, the wars, the crony capitalism and taxpayer subsidies, the corrupted politicians.

That's the stuff people fear, are concerned about - not health insurance for seniors.

What's so scary about helping poor people have enough food to eat with so-called "Big Government" food stamps? I don't get it. What is so scary about that?

Nothing.

But I want to go back to what the poll ALSO said - and that is that Americans fear "Big Business" three time more than they fear "Big Labor".

I tried to make that point last night - but the interview was quickly steered back to the Tea Party message of fear of Big Government:

Thom Hartmann: 8% are concerned about labor. Those numbers were exactly reversed about 30 years ago. People used to be more concerned about big labor than big business. But ...

David Asman: Right. And as government has grown, they're more afraid of big government.

Yes. So here's what's really going on. This chart goes all the way back to 1965 and in 1965 big business is the blue [medium green in the original], the red [light green] is big labor, just take a look at that. Not so many people were worried about big business and a lot of people were concerned about big labor. Some of the labor unions in 1965 were actually fairly corrupt and people knew it! They knew it.

In your opinion, which of the following will be the biggest threat to the country in the future -- big business, big labor, or big government? 1965-2011 trend

But over time what we've seen is that the labor, the power of labor has crashed, and only 8% of people now are worried about big labor. 26% however of Americans are worried about big business. And then you've got the whole variety of different ways and reasons that people might be concerned about big government.

But I find it fascinating that these numbers, that three times as many Americans are worried about big business as are worried about big labor. This is, I think, a very meaningful statistic.

In the 1980's - Reagan comes into office and the fear of big business, right about here, fear of big business starts to surge, and the fear of big labor plummets. Today - Big Business is feared 3 times more than big labor, yet oddly there's a war on labor.

So - the question is - if Republicans want to use this poll to gin up fear toward big government - and use it to push their agenda to cut away the social safety net - then shouldn't we also use this poll to crack down on the pervasive influence of big business?

Shouldn't we go after the oil subsidies and the Wall Street bailouts?

Shouldn't we put the reins on Wall Street to keep it from crashing our economy again?

Shouldn't we be talking about enforcing the Sherman Anti-Trust Act so that businesses can't just keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger?

Americans are always going to be wary of big government.

They rose up against it in 1776 - they feared it when this poll was first conducted in 1965 - and they're wary of it today - that's nothing new.

What's NEW is the fear of Big Business.

Because in the past - businesses were mostly small, local, and anchored in the community.

Small local businesses looked after their communities - they hired local - they paid a good wage to support a local middle class - and they didn't use local lands as giant trash dumpsters because they lived nearby.

But today - thanks to the rise of transnational corporations - businesses don't give a damn about their community.

They'd rather hire workers halfway across the planet than just down the street.

They'd rather pay themselves bonuses than pay their workers enough to get by.

You know, in the United States CEO pay used to be about 30-times that of the average worker.

Today - depending on the industry - it's 200-times, 300-times, sometimes even 2,000-times what they pay their average worker.

And they'd rather just dump their toxic waste in the local river than dip into their profits to dispose of it properly.

That's why Americans fear Big Business a whole lot more today - three times as much.

And that's why we need to do more to restrain corporations.

As Grover Cleveland - president of the United States - said in the midst of the 19th century Gilded Age:

The gulf between employers and the employed is constantly widening, and classes are rapidly forming, one comprising the very rich and powerful, while in another are found the toiling poor.... Corporations, which should be the carefully-restrained creatures of the law and the servants of the people, are fast becoming the people's masters.

Today we are in another Gilded Age - and Americans - increasingly - know it.

It's time to reign in corporate power.

Go to move to amend dot org for ways to kick corporations and their money out of our political process.

That's The Big Picture.

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